[Music] Welcome to episode 316 of Intouchable iOS, the show that talks about iPhone, iPad, Apple watch, Apple TV, and related technologies. I'm your host Dave Ginsburg, and I have to start off with welcoming back Jeff Gamak to the show. We missed you dearly. I'm so glad you're feeling better. Welcome back. How you doing? It's really great to be back, and I missed getting to hang out with everyone last week, and I'm glad that I'm feeling well enough to hang out this week. No guarantees about quality of content I provide, but I am here. I also want to welcome to the show at the aftermath of Macstock, the coordinator himself, Jeff. I mean, Mike Potter. Are you doing Mike? You know, who is it? Dave, Dave inherited Mac voices, and now Jeff inherited Macstock. We just pass along the fun. We do. It just goes around. It's like one big happy family. Thank you, Dave. It's great to be here. Great to be here. Congratulations on inheriting Mac voices. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess I wasn't. It just kind of happened. But no, but that's a serendipity, Dave. It is. You should probably say inside joke, right? Yeah, it is. Last but not least, welcome back to the show Marty Gensius. How you doing Marty? I'm doing okay. Tail end of a cold that was kind of a post-Mac stock thing and everything else is cool, but just still the tail end of the cold. So if the microphone goes off and the camera goes dark, I've gone to Louisville, and I'll come back shortly. Okay. Great. Glad you're feeling somewhat better. I apparently got lucky. I dodged the bullet on a lot of the sickness was going around. But that's which I'm kind of glad with, but there was people traveling. They got sick, so I was in the family. So I had to watch off for that too, but no, it's been going okay here. But what's okay is we are here for another show. If anybody didn't notice, we had a special episode that was released earlier this week. You got two episodes in one week last week, so 315 was the pre-Mac stock event. So please go back and listen to that episode. It was a lot of fun that we were all in person here to do that episode, so check it out. But in the meantime, we're on a new episode this week, and we got plenty to talk about. Beta has been very active. We're going to hit a calm that lots of other different topics this week as well. So let's just go dig right into it for this week. So in beta, Apple is still doing simultaneous betas with iOS 17 and iOS 18. So 17.6 for both iOS and iPadOS was now at a release candidate. This was a week after the fourth beta that just had just come out last week. And really, there isn't much there other thing. I think there's just some more bug fixes and just kind of cleaning up iOS 17 from where it's 17.5.1. And now it's 17.6. I would anticipate it's probably going to be released next week as we record this for us, people who stay off beta and put the current version on here. So, which would be me on my production device anyway. So, so good. The Apple stick keeps on top of that and keeps things going here. So also they have released candidates for the Apple, the watch OS at 10.6. Again, not much in there as far as any, anything really notable. Same thing with TVOS 17.6. That's also going to be in the release candidate as well. This, this go around. They're not sharing a lot of changes in 17, but we got some exciting things we talked about last week on TVOS 18. So, it's going to be cool to see where that goes. But then, meanwhile, VisionOS is at 1.3. That's a release candidate. Again, that's the next version before 2.0. So, not much notable there. I don't think, I know you aren't running that, Marty, but I don't think there was anything else of notability with. 1.3, right? No, I can talk about the 2.0 developer beta that was just released whenever we get to it. Yeah, we will get to it. It's, it's, I'm keeping good order here, keeping old and new to keep things. I'm so organized. I try anyway. So, that's interesting as well as a Mac OS that Sonoma 14.6 is also a release candidate. So, we'll be anticipating where that's coming out as well. So, nothing really new has been discovered. So, it does not get, again, this is kind of a unusual beta cycle where they're doing a lot of aggressive updates to the current OS. Because, you know, people will be staying on Sonoma for a bit of time. Honestly, people are going to jump on the next version right off the bat. So, along with all the other devices, mostly, mostly. I mean, I think Mac people kind of wait a little bit, but people get anxious with iOS and iPadOS, so we'll see where that goes. Then, yes, like you said, we're also still going with iOS 18. Apple did release the fourth betas of iOS and iPadOS, as well as Sequoia Mac OS was released to developers as well. They had made some more improvements with the iPhone sharing on that. And I'll talk about that in a bit here as part of the feature sets. And let's go ahead and jump right into a VisionOS. I'm always glad to have you here, Marty, to give us some insights on VisionOS. And VisionOS 2 is out. And I won't even read through what this says, because you could tell us, because you have it and you could tell us. Yeah, they just released a beta, actually, on Monday night, just before Eric and I recorded our show. And so, I wasn't able to put it on until after the show. So, some of the things, if you go into the developer information, the articles really don't say much about it. But if you go to the developer information, you can see what's new in terms of apps. And small things, creeping along, two things that came out with this latest beta are, they used to have a folder where they put all the compatible apps. These were apps that were not necessarily generally made for VisionOS. But they were things like stock, and they had some of the Apple standard apps, like pages and such, in that folder. And it used to be a lock folder. You couldn't take anything out. You couldn't drag something out that you were using. Email was in there. You couldn't, to access mail, you'd have to go into that folder to get it. With this beta release, they allow you to be able to drag those apps out and put them in your platform. The other unique kind of piece is, if you're looking at some type of media, and you're in an environment and you want to lay down, you have to go through all sorts of adjustments to get the screen to stay within your platform. Now, with this beta release, you just press the crown once, and it snaps into place, whatever angle you're sitting at. So, little teeny things, you have to, again, these are buried, you have to kind of go through the developer information to find them, but I found them and started playing with them, and it's pretty cool. Great, great. And I like to see the progress when it's coming with, with VisionOS and the VisionPro. So, yeah, great to have you to tell us all about it and continue on how things are going to be evolving with that device. And also, some of the other notable beta items is WatchOS 11, TVOS 18, have releases as well. That's the fourth beta in developer side. And again, we've been talking about it so much over the last couple episodes, and it looks like the continuing on with the insight feature and the enhanced dialogue feature on TVOS. And so a lot of it is there for now as well. And not much else to say about those two. And then just go through and then go ahead, I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, with the WatchOS 11 update that was put in there, they added an app. Now, you can't find it on your phone under the Watch, and you can't easily find it to watch. I had to go into the section, but there's an app called Vitals, and it's meant to collect your data while you're sleeping. And so I just, before the show, I went in and found it and I'm like, "Oh, this is cool." But you know, you need two nights of collecting data while you're sleeping before it can start giving you heart rate data. There are some, as you page through that app, there are some expectations that you have to have in order to do it. So I'll try it out over the next, I rarely sleep with my watch, but I'll try it out over the next couple of days, just see how it turns up. Yeah, it is definitely, I'm not going to wear my watch when I sleep either. Honestly, I think a lot of people are like that. I don't think three of us here. I don't know about you, Mike. Do you sleep at your watch? I do. I do sleep with my watch. And yet I don't use a sleep tracker. So go figure. I don't know why. You know why I do? You know why I sleep with my watch? Because every time I get an alert on it and it goes, it annoys my wife. That's why I do it. I love this beautiful thing. She loves you. No, I've come to sleeping with my wrist off the edge of the bed so it doesn't vibrate through the bed. It's giving alerts all night. Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. Next thing you know, you'll have a separate bed for your watch. A whole whole big band situation just for the watch. Yeah, that's right. That's a first right there. I've heard that before. So, and they also released the public betas of, like I said, iOS, TVOS and iPadOS. And also we'll talk about Mac OS, Sequoia. They released beta two for the public. Now the public can now look at the iPhone mirroring. And then one of the big things they did change with iPhone mirrorings that you can make the window a little bit bigger and you can change the size of it. So, as we're kind of expecting, you know, as beta goes on here, that you're going to be able to see different changes in every, all, every one of these when it comes to that. So, so that's interesting. Mike, did anything, are you hear anything about beta, Sequoia? I don't know if you put, you don't play around that much, right? You know, since I lost my beta machine to the, the annals of time, it just got too old to run the latest betas. Yeah, I haven't been playing with them much, but I did read about what you were just mentioning and that's the ability to resize the window. The disappointment being that you're limited to what is it? Small, medium, large, something like that. You can't freely resize the window. As I thought about it, you know, I get it. I understand why Apple made it that way. Now, maybe they'll eventually allow us to resize it, but they don't want an iPhone display with ugly black borders on the top or bottom or whatever. So they just, they say, okay, you can be small, medium, large. That's, that's what you get. But maybe, maybe, maybe we'll get freely resizable iPhone windows one of these days. Maybe, you know, if only Apple had something built into the operating system that allowed you to, to say arbitrarily draw window sizes. If only. Yeah, if only. I saw the window issue with the iPhone is because I have three monitors and they're all a different resolution. So there's small, medium, and large, depending on which, which, where I store the iPhone. Yeah, no, but not the wrong with that at all. Also, I found this to be interesting here. This, this was a article that was right now, nine to nine to five Mac. And we've always kind of known the beta schedule and the release schedules. They, they, they put an expectation when we can expect the new betas. The summer so far, it seems to be, it's been pretty consistent. You know, you started at June 10th for when the first beta came out for iOS. Eighteen all the way up to beta four to just came out a couple of two days ago as we record here. So it seems like the schedules is continues to file the same. The future beta release schedule, the public beta two just came out. So they're, they're anticipating around August 6th and 7th when public and developer beta five would come out. And they're, they're anticipating we may all go up to beta eight and then the release candidate. So, of course, you would expect that in September that during the post iPhone event. That's, that is generally pretty consistent. It's a way that goes every year here. So there's nothing of a surprise here. You think guys, as far as what works, the beta flow seems be going here. We'll wrap up 17, not six, I think next week. And then you're going to have at least four, at least three or four more beta releases. I think anybody any comments on that. I don't, I've never followed these as much since I started being on these shows and now I follow them all the time and it seems like a day goes by. Yeah. Well, no, it seems like a day goes by that there isn't a beta. You know, I'm constantly getting notifications on different devices that it's time for a beta update. I'm like, didn't I just do that yesterday or two days ago. It just seems like there's more and more of these coming on a regular basis. And I don't know if there's a logic behind that rollout or if it's just my perception of it. Jeff, do you have any ideas? Apple rolls out a lot of betas. Ever since Apple changed their, their strategy so that betas were something that were publicly available and not just to developers. And they got rid of the, the, the really draconian rules about what developers could talk about. Apple's been pretty consistent every year and, and this article. And I'm not saying this in a disparaging way at all. They could have written this article last year, changed the dates for this year and published it. And, and I'm saying that because that's how consistent Apple is. And there's, and the reason it feels like we're getting up beta updates practically every day is because Apple does have so many platforms now that are getting updates. Yeah. Yep, for sure. So, yep, that's it. That's interesting to see where that goes. Let's talk a little bit about what's new in iOS 18 beta four. There was some, some small changes. Looks like they've added some more car play wallpapers. I'm going to kind of look forward to that. In fact, I probably should be plugging this thing in my car and trying this on my beta device. There's eight new car played wallpapers. Looks like some cool colors that they're showing here. They did add a new way to access iCloud say settings in the settings app. There's now an iCloud option paired with the App Store, the game center and wallet. iCloud settings can still be accessed for tapping your Apple count and choosing the end interface. Camera controls, they added some things in the camera section of the settings app or gives a new controls menu option under preserve, preserve settings. The controls menu preserves the previously used camera tool while expanding controls, the controls menu rather than showing the full list of camera controls options when you use the camera app. That's kind of nice. That might make you have a little more flexibility with that. They did change the design of the hidden folder in the app library. If anybody knows, you can hide apps or you can lock apps or people can't get to them less having the extra layer of security like a face ID or touch ID. It doesn't stand out as less. A lot of cosmetic stuff that really add here as well. But they keep enhancing the iPhone mirroring, which we just talked about. Control center, I'm excited with the control center customizations that you're going to be able to do here now. And some new assistive touch features and accessibility. There's a new type to Siri and Apple Watch mirroring options in the assistive touch when we had Apple Watch mirroring before previously. So this continues to evolve when it comes to some of the settings. I find it fascinating to see how it evolves. And then we bring the show to the point where iOS 18 is released to everybody and then we're just going to go back and rehash it again because it's just fresh in our minds. We're always talking about it. How do you keep this stuff in your head? It's hard. It really is. It's like new discovery every day when you hear something. And then it's like, okay, where's it going to get stored in my brain? And when am I going to remember to recall that? That's the problem. And people start asking me and I was like, Oh, wait, I think I remember talking about that. But then I come back here and I was like, Oh, yeah, it's all flying through my head here. So it's a challenge. I can tell you that. But once it's released, you got it really locked in. Did you want to add something like? Oh, no, Marty's comments just reminded me when I work with clients or work with family members and explain the solutions to a particular problem they're having with their technology. Very often I'm asked, how do you remember all this stuff? Yeah. And I think it's the same answer, Marty. It's the repetitiveness of doing it over and over again. And in Dave's case, the repetitiveness of talking about the new betas and what's coming out in the betas. And then when it's finally released, talking about it all over again, Dave talks about all this stuff. I don't know all this stuff because I don't follow iOS as closely as obviously he does. So yeah, I think the answer is the same. It's that repetitiveness and answering the same, well, in the case of tech support, answering the same questions over and over again. It feels like you know what you're talking about, but you're really just answering the same question for the 10th time in a week. Kind of the same thing with Mac OS. I mean, because I work with a professionally not only as well as personally, Mac OS always has its intriguing things you find and look forward to. Not only I promote it here, I can promote it at work too, because it's looking forward to some of these features that users can use in their daily productive life and work. So it is always, that's why I love doing the show because we get to see as far as all the different stuff that changes all the time in Apple. So I can put Windows in the back of my mind and stay with Mac and Apple. So want to make sure and give a shout out to everybody in the chat tonight. It's at youtube.com/intouchwithios. It's great to see Cletus and Brian in the chat as well as a number of other people. Thanks for being here tonight and giving us some great comments. So make sure you're ready. Yes, sir. I just want to point out that it was so cool getting to see Cletus and Brian in person. Absolutely. Mac stock. No, definitely. Yeah, please. I know you didn't have a chance to do any post backstock stuff, but I'm welcome you to give your insights on that. It was a wonderful event. Mike, you put so much work into making Mac stock happen. And my feeling is that there was so much great content because all the sessions were wonderful. But even if the sessions were boring and bland or not interesting, which is not the case. Not the case. They were wonderful. It would still be worth it to be there just for the community. It was just so energizing to get to be there and hang out with so many cool people. And it was before the event. I always say it's like a family reunion, but in a good way. And I stand by that. It was just wonderful to get to reconnect with so many people and to get to meet people that I interact with online, but never get to see in person. Yeah, for sure. And in my case, it's another shout out to Cletus. We've been trading emails for what now, 10 years. And he's been wanting to come for so long to Mac stock and this year it finally worked out where he could make it. And while I don't get to interact with him as frequently through the chat rooms as you guys do, because I know he's in here quite frequently. It was really nice to be able to meet him and talk with him and actually finally put a real face to the name that I've been communicating with all these years. So, yeah, that sort of thing is really special to me. And the number of first timers who were at Mac stock this year was just great. Yeah, great to see everybody. That was exciting to see all the new faces. Yeah, I kept running into new people in the hall and I'm like, is this your first time here? Yeah, what do you think? This is great. Oh, that's nice. They're like, we want to come back again next year. This is just great. Love it. That's really nice to hear. Yeah, it's really just a wonderful event. We can't talk about Mac stock enough. I mean, come on. That's why I'm glad you brought it up, Jeff, because I didn't know how they throw the audience. I want to hear more of this, but I think they want to. Yeah. Dave, here's how excited I get about Mac stock. I was in the process of working on my presentation for this just past Mac stock. And I came up with an idea for next year's presentation and I'm texting nine. Like, I don't know. It was at night, I guess late at night, maybe. And I said, hey, here's my idea for next year's presentation. He's like, holy crap, man. I'm just trying to get this year together. Don't do that at me now. I see that with love, Mike. Well, and I'll be honest after I let's say I can't remember if that interaction was before or after this interaction. I'm about to mention, but no sooner did Kirschmann finish her talk. Then I went up to her on stage and said, I get an idea for your talk next year. And we were already starting to to discuss what her talk will be for for Mac stock nine. That's awesome. Bring it on. That's awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So no, I'm glad you were able to get some, some of your feedback on that. Jeff sees you missed us. Oh, Mike, I came up with another idea. Maybe a workshop. I'll share it with you. Boy, he's got the, the, the ideas are just flowing in there. This is what happens when my synapses start working again. Yeah. It's nothing but trouble. Oh, but a couple other topics I wanted to hit on this week. Apple intelligence is, you, you now are going to be able to generate, generate playlist artwork in iOS 18. iOS 18 will have, will feature the ability to create playlist artwork in Apple music. Using generative AI, as the beta code is suggesting Apple, Apple seems, seemingly is prepared to introduce a new feature that will allow users to create these customized paperwork. And, and AI is going to give them that option. It's going to set the core of this new functionality is a create new, create image button with, which users will be able to see while editing their playlists. Once tap the button will invoke an image playground and tool showcase the WC earlier this year. And allow you to be able to generate new images and input written commands. This is pretty kind of fun. I mean, I know, I know you always get those boring playlist covers that you just take like an album cover or whatever. This kind of, this kind of neat. What do you think of this Jeff? I think it's a really cool idea. I have mixed emotions about it though, because there's a whole thing with where is the content being sourced from that's, that's being used to train the AI models. And is it being sourced ethically? So, yeah, I've got this mixed thing about it. But the concept, I think this is a really great idea. And like you said, it's, it sounds a lot better than just, okay, here's an album cover from one of the pieces in the playlist. Give me something interesting and creative. I like that idea. Yeah. How about you, Mike? Is this something you like doing as a playlist, right? You know, I don't really mess with playlists that much. I'll be honest. I tend to put on an album. I mean, I'm a little old school that way. If I wasn't listening to music, I'll pick an album out. But I guess as I'm listening to this, okay, I'll be honest. The very first thing that came to mind was, why? I mean, I, you know, cool. It's a neat idea. I understand that, you know, why some folks would go on it, but I, I don't really see a need for it personally. But then the second thought that came to mind was, okay, so if I have a playlist with Lady Gaga and the police, is it going to give me a picture of sting in a meat suit? Or could bring, could be Taylor Swift. I have to pay for that. Yeah. So I'm kind of curious what it's going to base the playlist cover art on and, and how it's going to come up with these pictures. And, and that ties directly into Jeff's concerns of where is it going to source the material from? And in, in what way is it? You know, I'm sure Apple's going to go through great pains to make sure that it's not, quote, stealing content. But I don't know. We'll see. What about you, Marty? Sticking in a meat suit. I would, I would like to see Lady Gaga in a sting suit. I think that would be pretty cool. There you go. I, I'm old school and, in a sense, like Mike, I put an album on. So I'm listening to one artist. And the way I identify it is if it's Peter Gabriel, it's the bleeding face album cover and it's like, that's iconic for me to be able to find the artist with. And I know Spotify breaks them up into quarters or something like that. I don't mix too many playlists together. I get in the mood for an artist or a genre. And that's what I'll listen to. The last time I mixed a playlist was probably 1987 when I was working on a cassette. Yeah. Well, working in radio. It's, you know, that, that was the really the kind of last mixing that I did. Other than that, I put on music for a, you know, by artist or by genre. So part of my reaction was this is cool, but is it basically a gemoji form for music and do I want that when I want to find Peter Gabriel, I want to find Peter Gabriel or Peter Gabriel like things. So, well, I knew I liked you, Marty, the second you mentioned Peter Gabriel. So there you go. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, can't beat that. Marty, you can live vicariously through my playlists, just to be my friend on Apple music and know that many of the playlists that I create were theme based for specific parties. And so when you're looking at it or listening to the music on this list, at some point, you'll be like, what kind of parties just Jeff go to. Yeah, I was wondering, you actually get invited to parties. Oh, yeah. What's up with that. Oh, yeah. So it's going to be a cool feature that maybe I got kind of deal with you. I'll play with it and see what happens. Yeah, sure. Let's go back to iOS 18 a little bit here in the passwords app and all the features that there's going to be coming here. As we've been talking about, Apple did create a standalone passwords app that's going to streamline login and password management. They've been able to store password information on your Apple devices through iCloud keychain for years, but accessing the passwords was a little more difficult because the data was tucked away in the settings app. Well, that's no longer the case with iOS 18, much simpler to create and manage passwords websites and more. They've gone through a really nice layout. It's going to, it's going to be installed automatically when you upgrade to all all OS is including Mac OS. And it's a very simple laid out, but the search bar on the right and you can look up the information that you're looking for. If you already had the iCloud keychain feature, all of those saved logins and passwords will be ready to go when you authenticate with Face ID or Touch ID. So you also can tap into any of the sections of where it's listed there and be able to get the individual entries as well as each entry will have fields for site and app name, username, so on and so forth. And then you're able to add logins and passwords very easily just by tapping the plus button and being able to change passwords, delete passwords, authentication codes will be two factor authentication codes that would come up. You click the tap the plus button, you can either scan it with a QR code or with the camera, or there's a common way of two to factor. It's also going to support pass keys. Jeff, you've probably, you've done topics on this before with pass keys and you think this is going to be something that's really going to enhance the past key experience with the password tab. I think it'll make the past key experience more accessible to a wider audience. Now, if that qualifies as enhancing, okay, cool. But pass keys are such a great concept with a hot mess implementation right now. So, while this is going to help, I don't think this is going to help enough to really kickstart widespread adoption. But anything that we can do to make to make pass keys more accessible to a wider audience. That's sending us down the right path. So good for Apple. Yep. And it's also going to be great to, as you know, it's going to sink across all devices. All your Apple devices and the security you can expect is going to be top notch, second to none. Or it'll tell you about if you've reused the password, if there's a compromised password in a data leak, you know, then that's pretty standard stuff you're hearing about that. You know, our favorite is one password. One thing that I'm sad it isn't ready just yet is the fact that being able Apple does plan to provide a tool to importing passwords from services like one password. But for now, the functionality has not been implemented. So that that means doesn't mean that you can't still continue to use one password. One password is still an amazing app and I will continue to be a subscriber to that and using that password manager. If I make sure the passwords app that Apple is releasing is going to be a really big step forward. But like so many of the tools that Apple makes, they also create what people like to call third party opportunities. And so you get the functionality that's really useful. But if you need more, if you need something that goes beyond that, like in this case, the passwords app. That's where the tools like when password come in and tools like one password give you a lot more functionality than you're going to get in the passwords app and they go beyond the individual users. So if you have say a family or a business, that's when those tools come in handy and we're talking about tools that let you store a lot of different types of information as well. And they're designed for that from the ground up. Whereas if you're storing a lot of extra stuff in the passwords app that Apple will offer, it'll be in some cases kind of like a clue to make it work. So that's, I guess it's a long winded way of saying tools like Apple's password app are not going to get the people that know what they need to switch and an abandoned tools like one password. All right, you got any thoughts on this. First thing I noticed when reading the article is the layout of the password apps looks so much like reminders. And then I got reminders open and played with a little bit just to see if it kind of followed the same flow. I am really liking the password app for some reason I like it all, all those engines under the same hood, and I have one password. I can tell you I've got stuff stored in it, but it's not necessarily my go to. And maybe it's because what I'm doing with the password app is taking care of my needs. I don't have necessarily connections with other families to share passwords, things like that. And just to have it built into the OS with with Apple's security, I feel a lot better about that and maybe saving me what 50, 60 bucks a year. I'd like to see that happen. You know, it's still missing some of the things that one password has like drivers license and other kinds of certificates and other kinds of documents that you can kind of store in there. At least I have figured that out if you can do it with the password apps. But those kinds of services that, you know, Jeff alluded to, that's the reason I'm still paying the 50, 60 bucks a year to have that stored in one password. But I'm impressed with it. And frankly, if I got to open one versus the other, I'd rather just have it right in the system to get what password I need. So yeah, I'm surprised they didn't do this years ago of that. It's just now that they're getting into that. Yeah. How about you, Mike? I remember correctly, you use a password manager or do you just use iCloud keychain or how do you manage your passwords? Oh, no, I use a password manager. I used one password for years and years and years and recently within the last. Oh, a year and a half or so I switched to strongbox and have found that to be a decent analog for, well, it's just a one password classic. The opportunities I've had to mess about with the newer version of one password. I just haven't liked the interface quite as much as the older version. It's still a great password keeping application and on the whole, that's typically the one that I recommend. But I've been kind of digging strongbox. It's a bit more nerdy, perhaps, you know, and maybe that's why I feel it's a bit more like the older version of one password, which is a bit more nerdy. As you were describing those things, I was thinking every time we feel Apple is late to the party with something like a password manager. Invariably, it ends up pulling ahead and we find ourselves, you know, gravitating towards that as Marty said, he's kind of gravitating towards the passwords app because it does everything that he needs to do. I'm a little concerned about what's going to be in the passwords app when I fire it up for the first time because my current Apple passwords are a mess. I don't even know it's in there. It's all old, outdated stuff. I almost feel like it would be great if they just said, "Here's a new passwords app. Do you want to import your old stuff?" And I could say, "No, I don't want it at all." And then just start fresh. And then if I can import from one password or I can import from Strongbox, that would be fantastic. In fact, it would be necessary if I'm going to use it regularly. But then Jeff brought up the great point of what about all the extra stuff? All the extra stuff that one password and Strongbox can store for us, will we be able to store that within the Apple passwords app? And if we can't, then it's definitely a non-starter. And the other thing that would make it a non-starter for me would be if it doesn't have excellent third party browser integration. So those are two things I'm kind of waiting to see what happens with the passwords app. And maybe I will end up gravitating towards it and it'll become my primary passwords app. But for right now, I think I'll probably stick with Strongbox. Okay. I'll put a link in the show notes people can check out that Strongbox app for you. So, like, isn't Strongbox macOS and iOS native app, meaning not an electron app? It is a native app. Yeah, I don't believe they're using electron at all. Yeah. And that might be one of the reasons why you're preferring the interface over one password because they did go to Electron. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah, I tend to not enjoy the electron apps as much because they don't have that Mac feel to them. Yeah. Yeah. I tried the Electron version and that's the one that's sitting there that I don't use as much anymore. Yeah. Yep. I get it. I understand why they went that way, but they were Mac first at the beginning. You know, I would love to see them kind of create a native Mac app once again. Yeah. People like trying for Linux and Windows, and let's get a native Mac app back again. And we've had discussions about Electron and we know the reason why one password did that. They wanted to expand the horizon to other OS's. So, and that's what happened. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and if you're going to go for the enterprise market. Right. And that's where the real money is. It's not with us individual users as important as we are to get a company started. Very true. This is true. We are not the money makers. Very true. It's from a business standpoint, it completely makes sense why apps like when password went to Electron. Yeah. Couple stay on the trend a little bit on security. Apple did launch a new Safari ad campaign, a browser that actually is private. They shared a new focus to Safari ad that designed the highlight the ways that Safari protects user privacy compared to the other browsers. In the spot, the security cameras are positioned as pesky birds and bats hovering around smartphone users as they browse the web and the cameras are everywhere representing the website trackers. Much of the ad is focused on non iPhone users, but towards the end an iPhone user opens up Safari and that the creepy cameras explode in mid-air. This is a kind of a fun ad if you guys have had a chance to see it yet. But the ad is accompanied by billboards and cities around the world and short digital ads that are being shown on social networks. It's also been highlighted in recent privacy updates made on the Safari WebKit blog. So, you know, as we probably know that the Safari has IP addresses are hidden from known trackers in Safari and they can be used to identify users across websites. Plus location information is not shared without express user permission and with optional time limitations. If you're a iCloud Plus subscriber, you have additional protections like iCloud, Private Relay, Safari, Private Browsing, and separate sessions for every tab so you can tell if two tabs are coming from the same device. And then tracking prevention they specifically have and you can go to apps Safari advanced and advanced tracking and fingerprint protection on the iPhone. So, there's a lot of Safari protections that Apple says, this is according to Apple, that's not offered by other browsers such as Chrome, which makes Safari the ideal choice for privacy, but you can compare Chrome. Yeah, okay. So, this is interesting. There's some good stuff in here. I know that Mike, you were talking about the Arc browser. That's probably even more. Where would you compare the privacy with that browser versus the Safari is being offered by Apple? Me? No, you know, I don't use the Arc browser. I do use Firefox. Oh, okay. I thought you mentioned the Arc browser. I'm sorry. No, no, no, I'm a Firefox user. So, it's interesting. It'll be interesting to read through that. I hadn't read through that yet to see how they compare to Firefox because Mozilla has had a fantastic comparison on their website talking about the privacy and security features of all the various browsers compared to Firefox. And, you know, they're pretty fair about it. In fact, I believe they even mentioned that the privacy and security features of Firefox and Safari are pretty much on par. There's a little differences, you know, here and there, but they're fair about it. And they say, look, yeah, they do offer this, and they do offer this. Maybe they don't offer that, but we don't offer that either. You know, that kind of thing. So, anybody can compare themselves to Chrome and mention how much work. Or come out of here with privacy and security. Yeah. And then, yeah, but no, I don't, I don't use. Okay. No. All right. Why? Firefox on the Mac and on the phone. Yeah, me too. Are you have anything to add about this, this fire protection? I think the ad is great. It's made me want to use Safari more. Yep. I'm much more familiar with the Chrome interface and unfortunately wind up using it much more than I should. So, I'm trying to transition to Safari, but the tabs in the windows and all the stuff on the side and the groupings, just kind of confusing for me. In terms of laying stuff out and keeping, keeping tabs and, and keeping folders together of stuff that I want. I've been doing it on Chrome for a long time. Interestingly enough, we were playing around with Ecamm today and something wasn't going well. And from my understand, you should be using the Chromium browser or an edge browser for Ecamm. We tried Safari and it worked. Yeah. Yeah. So unbeknownst to the person that, that I was working with, they said, let's try Safari and see what happens. Worked fine, actually cleaned up some of the problem. So, I got to get attracted to Safari and have to learn the logic of how to keep my stuff organized, which I now have all well organized on Chrome. Right. So, yeah. How about you, Jeff? Not a Safari user, because Safari doesn't support some extensions that are mission critical for me. I have not seen this commercial because I've been out of commission for several days. Sure. Here's my question. And this gets totally nerdy. But if Apple is touting how secure, how private Safari actually is, is it supporting DOH? And I believe the answer is no. I don't think so. How private are you really, if you're not supporting DNS over HTTPS, which is what DOH means? Yeah. Right. It's all the Firefox does. It does. Yeah. Firefox and all the Chromium browsers do. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyhow, I'm not saying that as a SLAM. I'm genuinely asking, does Safari even support DOH? And if not, okay, then I am slamming. Yeah. I don't know as a fact, but it doesn't seem like it does. One more thing about iOS 18, Marty, you mentioned this earlier about the reminders app, but in iOS 18, the reminders will now live live inside the calendar app, bringing the two key productivity tools together. So you're going to have it within the calendar and provide a floor picture of your day with both reminders and your calendar entries in there as well. So this is going to be an interesting way to manage your reminders and your calendar and getting used to it for that matter, because we've been so used to it for years being separate between the reminders app. Yeah. I tried it out before the show just because I'm not a frequent reminders user. I use things and I use other stuff for my flow, but I want to see, you know, it says it's in here and let me go ahead and check it out and sure enough. Yeah. That's pretty cool. It is. Okay. I haven't tried it yet, but so that's one to make sure we mentioned that from what you had mentioned earlier. Let's hit some of the news stories that happened this week before we wrap here. Apple intelligence, it's not going to be trained on YouTube content, says Apple. Apple addressed concerns about the, it's used of AI training data following the investigation that revealed Apple along with other major tech companies had had used YouTube subtitles to train their artificial intelligence models. This is an investigation by Wired earlier in the week here that reported over 170,000 videos from popular content creators were part of the data set used to train AI models. Apple specifically used this data set in the development of its open source, open ELM models, which were made public in April earlier this year. However, Apple is now confirming that open ELM does not power any of its AI made machine learning features, including the company's Apple intelligence system. Apple clarified that open ELM was created solely for research purposes and with the aim of advancing open source, large language development. It goes on to say that the company just emphasized that it is not integrated and that's what they say. Jeff, what do you think on this? That's good news because if any company is going to be at this point sourcing content for their models ethically, it better be Apple and confirming that they're not using YouTube for their training is a good thing because that indicates that at least in this instance, they are being true to their word. This is a hard place to be right now because the whole AI, LLM, generative world that's just exploding right now. How do you do that and make a product that is commercially viable without stealing the content? That's the big question right now, so it looks like Apple is in a position to be doing that, so good for them. How about you, Marty, just with your AI knowledge? I would feel better if they would announce that they're not getting anything from TikTok. Good luck. Although, the AI could send back some really groovy dance moves and some good recipes, and that's all I need from AI right now. I don't know, it's going to be tough to, people are going to have to come up with an apology before the fact with a lot of the sourcing from the AI stuff. It's just going to be tough to figure out where it's really coming from, and so maybe they got it from a source place, but where did the source place get it from? It's just a wormhole. It's really a wormhole to figure all that out. Yep. Any thoughts on this, Mike? Well, Marty's still my joke. My joke is going to be if you've ever logged on to YouTube without an account, the videos that pop up are definitely the videos I would not want to train an AI with. But yeah, Jeff and Marty have both raised very good points about this. I don't know. Great artists steal, right? If you're going to create a generative AI model, you kind of have to have something to base it on, and so the content that's out there on the internet seems like it would be fair game. I think that was the thought process that went through the original creator's minds of these systems, but yeah, when actual copyrighted content starts working its way into the content that's generated by these AI systems, then we've got a problem. I don't know if reporting your sources is enough. I think more work needs to go into assuring that the systems use the content that's borrowed in a fair and equitable way rather than just ripping it off outright. I don't know, I don't think anybody knows the answer, and that's why there's so much confusion over this. We don't know. They don't even understand fully how these systems work, let alone tell them not to steal. So yeah, it's going to be an interesting few years ahead of us. You know, there was a point at one time, and Apple certainly had the cash cow to be able to do this, where they were going to start, I heard, you know, they were going to start paying sources like New York Times, Washington Post, what and people would argue are these really reliable sources, but at least genuine news sources, Reuters, whatever, in a way to kind of say, yeah, we're going to use some of your stuff, here's some cash for it for the process to be able to license it, and we'll cite it when it comes out. And that seemed to be like a really up and up way of doing AI in terms of combining that. But I don't know if that's fallen by the wayside. Yep. Well, we'll see how it goes, that's for sure. Apple TV Plus, Apple is looking to license more movies to expand its Apple TV Plus library. Apple is in an active talks to license more films from major Hollywood studios as it seeks to bolster Apple TV Plus, this is according to Bloomberg, Apple has traditionally focused on original productions for its streaming platform, but it's been increasingly looking for expanding expand its offerings by acquiring programming from extensive libraries of established studios. Sources familiar with this matter claim that while Apple TV Plus has seen some success with the original series like Ted Lasso, I miss Ted Lasso. And the morning shows, these hits have been relatively far between and services have struggled to match the extensive catalogs like competitors like Disney Plus. We reported last week that 72 Emmy nominations this year for Apple TV Plus, and it is not gambered the same subscriber as its competitors, according to research firm, only about 11% of US households has Apple TV Plus compared to 55% with Netflix, a fair comparison. So they said it's a little scope that's minimal here. Apple has already begun experimenting with licensing and earlier this year at the company licensed approximately 50 movies from Hollywood studios for its service in the United States, adding popular titles like Titanic and Mean Girls and a number of others. I see Apple doing some big expansion on Apple TV Plus, I mean, the original content is just insane. It's just really good. They just wrapped up, presumed innocent, I love that show, that there's done eight episodes series, they wrapped it up yesterday as we record this and there's just some of the other shows that are on there that I want to watch too. What do you think about this stuff? Apple is making great content and to be able to continue making great content, they need to increase their subscriber base. And a great way to do that is to increase the number of movies in the library. So yeah, this just seems like a smart and very logical business move for Apple at this point. Yep. Well, what do you think, Mike? Apple has been in an interesting position to kind of up end the way streaming television has done and they've been doing a really, really good job of it. And I was thrilled to see that they weren't following the model that everybody else was following until recently. It's almost like they brought somebody in from one of the other streaming networks who said, no, no, no, we have to do it this other way. And then suddenly things changed. They have the money and they have the resources to continue producing original television content and original motion picture content, if you will. I have any of you watched any of the licensed content on Apple TV plus? I have not. I only watched the originals. I have no interest in streaming Planet of the Apes or whatever they happen to license this month. Maybe I'm alone in that regard, but I would much rather watch Sonny or I would much rather watch trying than a movie I can rent on Blu-ray. Yeah. I have a feeling we're in the minority because like you, I'm not watching a lot of the extra licensed content, excuse me. But if you look at the way a lot of that content is brought in, it's part of a promotional thing. Yeah. And so there might be some other movie that's about to come to streaming that's related to the content where Apple is producing something that ties into the content, like with Monarch needed to give us some Godzilla content. So from a promotional standpoint, I can see where this is a valuable tool for Apple. Whether or not you and I are the audience for that extra content, now that's a different thing. And yet that stood alone, that stood alone without needing to watch the Godzilla movies. You could immerse yourself into that show and fully understand what was happening without needing to know everything that's preceded it for the last, what, 70 years? Yeah. So yeah. They did a great job. And Time Bandits. Time Bandits is another great example. Where's the 1981 flick? We don't need to see that in order to understand the new show. So I don't know, I'm torn on it. I really wanted them to stand apart, much like their devices do, much like their other services do. I wanted this service to stand apart from the others and not become a Netflix and not become an Amazon Prime and not become a Hulu or whatever. So I'm a little concerned that they're starting to move in the wrong direction from my viewpoint. Not that that matters at all, but from my viewpoint, I'm sorry to see that they're starting to go with a little bit more traditional route, but their content focused on just the Apple original content is without peer, absolutely fantastic stuff. And I look forward to almost every new show. There's a couple genres I don't really get into personally. But I've watched pretty much anything that they make available. I've watched and have enjoyed. I've not started Lady in the Lake yet or Land of Women. I do want to watch both of those. But yeah, just fantastic content. And to hear that Apple who still has billions of dollars in the bank is concerned about cost cutting is a little concerning. There's a difference between cost cutting and raining in out of control spending. Yeah. My guess is that it's more of the latter than the former. Yeah. Because if you look at like a fair point, a season of severance per episode, it's costing more than a lot of top end sci-fi series that are super heavy on special effects. What's your point, Jeff? Okay, fair, I stand corrected. But I mean, for a show like severance, I'm thinking that the special effects budget isn't so big or shouldn't need to be so big that it dwarfs what is being paid for other sci-fi special effects heavy shows. Yeah. Where's that money going? Probably in salaries, mostly. Yeah. Why don't you get the last one? Yeah, thanks. Both you guys have said so much that rings true for me. I have turned into an Apple TV plus fanatic primarily because of the Vision Pro headset. That's my content provider for me on Vision Pro. And then getting into the content that's produced, it's so good. No, really no interest in Monarch and all you guys started talking about Monarch. So of course I started watching Monarch, which led me to purchase all of the Godzilla movies plus Godzilla minus one. And so there are some content that they produce drives you to other things. This here's 50 movies for 30 days that basically I've seen on Apple TV is that that front page that says, here are all the things you can see this month on Apple TV and they bring up some movies reminds me of the old HBO days where you would get the little, you know, you get the little pamphlet, you go to a hotel room and you'd hope that it was the beginning of the month because that's when all the new stuff was on. You don't want to go to a hotel at the end of the month because you're going to get all the stuff you watched on HBO before. But it's that idea of here's some, here's some set content. It's going to be there for 30 days, watch it if you want to. When I go through what they have, the movies that I want to watch, I've already purchased. So they've already lost me on that. So yeah, I'm sure there's a group of folks who aren't as media hungry as I am in terms of owning content that will find good value in added value in an Apple TV plus subscription with the movies available. Talking about getting some from Disney or getting some from Warner Brothers or, you know, who are happy to sell the content to other providers, I just don't know if that's going to, if that's going to entice me away from if I have a Disney subscription or if I have a another kind of subscription is just having a few of those on Apple TV is going to say that's it. I'm dropping my Disney. But you know, if you don't have Disney, maybe some good stuff will come across. Yep. All right. That was a great discussion on Apple TV plus will bring in a couple comments in the chat from about this. Brian says Apple TV has the best programming and hope they don't mess with this too much. And then he also says adding more licensed programming could very well lead to higher prices for that service too. So that's definitely true as well here. So one last story here for a rep up here, Apple actually added Apple Maps to the web. That was that just got announced yesterday's we record this now is launched Apple Maps on the web on the web feature, which is now available in a public beta capacity. Apple webs and from the web works in Safari and other web browsers, allowing users to get directions while having to open up the maps app. Maps app on the web works just like the Apple Maps and the Apple Maps on the web works just like it does in the app, the maps app, where so you can get driving directions and walking directions and such and if you ratings hours, all that stuff. So you really, it is going to be like a alternative to Google Maps, which has been longer than the most popular web based mapping option. So it looks like Apple's trying to compete a little bit with Google on this. What do you think, Mike? Great. Fantastic. I don't, I don't know if I'll use it. I have to test it. I have not actually tried it out yet. I saw the new story yesterday, when did it, when did it come out yesterday and I've not had an opportunity to test it. The one thing I want to test, and it's the first thing I test almost every time is to plan a route and then be able to manually drag that route to my preferred route, which is what I can do in Google Maps on the web, not in the app, it can't do it in Apple Maps in the app. So I'm curious to see if you can do that in the Apple Maps on the web. I don't, that's just something that I like to do because sometimes I really do know better than the automated route planning. Well, you might not be trying it because it's not compatible to Firefox. It's only Safari, Edge, and Chrome. I just checked it. So Safari, Edge and Chrome on Mac or iPad and Edge and Chrome on Windows. Firefox is so private, you can't even run Apple Maps on it. Yeah. What do you think, Jeff? If Apple wants to really compete with Google Maps, then bringing Apple Maps to the web for all browsers is important, doing what Mike said, letting you fix your route. So it's the route you really want and not the suggested route. That's important. But honestly, before Apple can go, hardcore head to head with Google in the map space, they need to make it, they meaning Apple need to make it much easier and clearer on how to add your business to Apple Maps and how to keep it up to date. Google makes that process of relatively painless, Apple's process is still pretty obtuse and a lot of businesses don't even realize that's a thing. So that's why you get so many people that do what I tend to do, which is Google Maps to find the location and then put it into Apple Maps so I get the right directions. Yeah. Last word on this party. I like big formats and it's like, it's in beta. I'm sorry, Jeff, that as soon as I said that the rest of the lyric came into my head and so we're sinking together. Here's my wish. I could sign into it somehow on the web and I could do some mapping for the trip I'm going to take, save it to favorites and then open up my phone and there it is. And I can sink it through CarPlay into, right now it's in beta, so everybody's got an opportunity to play with it, but I would really like to get it into a way that it's transferrable to a small device instead of me having to whack my way through it on an iPhone with my big, fat, chunky fingers. I think the other piece is that Google still has is the ground view and sometimes you get to a place and you're like, okay, where exactly is it? Is this familiar? And if I could get more of those ground shots out of Maps, that would be very cool too. Absolutely. So before we wrap up, I wanted to talk a little bit more about Mac stock. Now we've wrapped up Mac stock for this year sadly, but we're going to be looking forward to next year, but we're also going to look forward to the digital pass that's going to be available and instead of me telling you all about it, why not come from the source itself and Mike Botter, what we can expect from the digital pass for this year? You heard my complaining before we started recording about the issues I was having with the video and audio from Mac stock. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. There's no rush. I just want you to get everybody what the status is. We knew I knew going there was going to take time. Well, usually I'd say about 30 days after Mac stock and I usually take that 30 days as the point at which I start releasing the video. So we're still on track for that. The digital pass is the weekend talks, the Saturday and Sunday sessions for Mac stock. It's broken down into the individual talk so that you can jump directly to the one that you want to watch again or again and again if it's Marty's talk. So where possible, I try to keep the slides in there in a nice clear fashion so that you can read them a little bit better, which is one of the reasons I ask all the presenters for their slides prior to Mac stock so that if need be, I can inject them into it later. Yeah, I take the time to break it all down, enhance the audio, cut it down to just that person's talk and then make that available for the digital pass. And that's what it is. And I expect that that will be available, like I said, roughly 30 days after Mac stock comes to a close, the link to purchase a digital pass is on the Mac stock website at max.conferenceanxpo.com. And yeah, I'm hoping to have those out real soon now. In fact, the link is also in our show notes as well. So make sure. Oh, well, thank you very much. So make sure you go out there, go get the digital pass now. You don't have to wait. You want to get what gets you ready. So then when it is ready to be seen, you'll be ready to go. So go ahead and click that link and grab that digital pass. Any plans on the workshops are you just going to stick with just the presentations? Well the promise was the Saturday, Sunday talks. Now, it may be that I'll be able to get the workshops in to the digital pass as well, but that's going to have to be after the fact. Gotcha. You know, I'm going to focus on the Saturday, Sunday sessions first, and then we'll work on getting the workshops in there. Sounds good. Well, we'll keep telling everybody go get up digital pass because you're going to have some great content to be able to watch after the fact so it can relive Mac stock again. And again, relive Mac stock. And I have to start, yeah, I have to get going on a Mac stock nine days because I need to give you something to talk about over the next few months. Yeah. And I'll get my presentation in too. So. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Have you submitted a topic yet? I have not. I'm your way ahead of me. I am a slacker. I am for sure. So thanks, Mike. And then go check it. I know Marty's submission is going to be. Yeah. Yeah. What? What's my solution? No, you're submission. You're talk submission for next year. I know what that is. What is my, what is my talk submission for next year? What do you think? Well, I have a few ideas. You alluded to the fact that I've turned it down multiple times prior to Mac stock. You mentioned that more times than I can count over the entire weekend, Marty. So I think I know what your talk submission is going to be next year. You know, you might have convinced me, but I'm willing to take a shot at an anything workshop and or presentation. I kid because I love Marty. Yes. Yeah. That's more of a lot more to look forward to as well. Make sure to go to max.conference.xpo.com to sign up for that digital pass or go to Lincoln or show notes. So I'd love to for you to grab that.com. Okay. Thanks Dave. Absolutely. With that, let's go ahead and wrap up for this week. That's a wrap for this week. Please send your comments, questions and suggestions to our email address, which is feedback@intouchaldioas.com. You can follow us on Macedon@intouchaldioas@techhangout.social. Support the show. Buy me a coffee at intouchaldioas.com/coffee. We would really appreciate it. You can also become a patron of the show by going to patreon.com/intouchaldioas. We have two tiers available to support the show. We would really appreciate it. Make sure you like share and subscribe just like Brian and lead us and many others in the chat so you can be notified when you are when we're live streaming, which is on Thursday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern Time, 5 p.m. Pacific on our YouTube channel, which is youtube.com/intouchaldioas, where you can watch the current and past live streams as well as listen to past shows. Visit intouchaldioas magazine on Flipboard, where many of the topics we discuss are flipped into that magazine. The link is in our show notes. You can subscribe to the show in your favorite pocket or including pocket casts, overcast, apple, podcasts and many others, but better yet go to our website intouchaldioas.com or all the links and all the ways to listen to us on that website. I am Dave Ginsberg and you can find me on Massadon@daveg65 and massadon.cloud. Mike Potter, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it and work if you find it. Oh, folks can find me at for MacGuysOnly.com or max.conference and expo.com and on Massadon you'll find me at tuting.ninja/app4macguysOnly or tuting.ninja/appmax.xpo. Thanks Dave. Excellent. I'm Jeff Gammett. It's so glad you made it back. We missed you so much. I'm sorry to go back here with us and where can people find you? Well, I'm glad to be upright and some of you functioned again and I'm just happy to get to hang out with all of you. Yes sir. All right, so where to find me? First, I apologize for not being active on social media for the past but... You had a good reason. Yeah, that's two weeks. Yeah. I'm active, Jay Gammett and most of my stuff is going on Massadon and Instagram and threats. And then for shows, Tuesdays, Chuck Joyner's MacGuys is live. Sorry Dave, I gave the show back to him. By the way... He can have it. Yes, it's an insight joke but if you buy your digital pass to mass stock, you can get in on the joke as well. But it's true. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, then here on Thursdays with you Dave in touch with iOS, then on the British Tech Network, the big show on Thursdays and the Mac Show on Fridays, also Brainchaffin and I do a context machine and Patrice Brenda Moore and I do retro rewatch and for those who that aren't subscribed to that one yet, it's wrong with you. So, he's watching shows that she's seen many times that I have and what I should have and I'm watching them for the first time and we talk about them from our perspective as a first time versus many times you are and right now we're doing stargain SG plan. Excellent. Thank you. And Bart Gensius is always a pleasure to have you on the show and work if you find you. You can find me. And Gensius at mastodon.social also the pod talk.net is website that has connections to my podcasts, three of them right now that are active vision profiles, which is a about the vision pro and also tech savvy professor and circular firing squad. Excellent. You can find me here on Tuesdays or no. You can find me here on Thursdays and with Chuck Joyner on Tuesdays. Yes. And yeah, thank you. Mike's holding up a microfiber cloth with the podcast information. That was a nice microfiber cloth. You know, people that for those of you that didn't go to mastodon in person, you missed out on getting Marty's microphone, my microfiber cloths, his show stickers, I brought retro rewatch and contact machine stickers and people were bringing all kinds of cool stuff to share. Yep. All right. Thank you. And thank you all for listening. We really appreciate you listening and watching and checking out our show. We enjoy doing it. And until next time, we will talk again soon. Bye. a. . You You
