(upbeat music) - Welcome to TMZ Live, Harvey Levin here. - Charles here. - So Dana White has come out swinging like an MMA fighter on a subject that he is just went ballistic over, which is cancel culture. - Yeah, he was on with Shannon Sharpe on his Club Shae Shae podcast. And Shannon asked him about his, if he's ever concerned about being canceled, Dana has said and done a lot of things that a lot of people have very strong opinions about and which was the point of Shannon's question, do you ever worry about this? His answer is no, but the way he said no and the metaphor he used is what's raising some eyebrows. - Do you ever worry about getting canceled, Dana? What does that mean, actually? Cancel, canceled by who? You know what I mean? Cancel by who? I obviously have in the UFC and in life, if you have a fan base outside of those people and my circle that I get about, I could care less. I could care less. And I've seen people talk about, oh, well, he has you money and all that other stuff. I equate it to being gay, okay? Think about this, in life, back in the 80s, if you came out and said you were gay, it could destroy your career, it could destroy it. Imagine living a life where you can't be who you really are. - Correct. - It's got to be a horrible thing, right? (beep) Uh-uh. I am who I am, if you like it or you don't like it. I don't give a (beep) - I get it. I, as a gay man who lived in the 80s and had issues that he's talking about like this and had friends with issues like this, I get his point that it sucks to hide who you are. Now, that doesn't mean that you can do anything you want where it starts hurting other people, but if it's expressing views or showing your true self, I get that point, I get the metaphor. - I guess the reason the metaphor is rubbing some people the wrong ways because what we're saying is if you're gay and you wanna be out, there shouldn't be a consequence for that because you're just being yourself, right? - I'm saying that's the way it was in the 80s. - Exactly, and he's, and I agree with it, Dana's saying that you should be able to be who you are and if you're someone who's closeted and you want to live your life out, you should be able to do that without consequence, right? - Well, no, no, he's not even saying without consequence. He's saying, no, he is saying that sucks, right? - I mean, he said that, that, you imagine that. - Well, I think he's saying, I think it's a little different. I think what he's saying is live your life the way you are and if people wanna say, I want everything to do with you, screw you, screw them and you care about the people around you but you can't worry about what everybody else thinks and how do you really are because of that? I think that's what he's saying. - Agree, I think that's what he's saying. I think why it's rubbing people the wrong ways that the consequence for someone coming out can be much more severe than what consequence he might suffer for saying and being. - I don't know that that's true. I think people who get, people who get, I don't think cancel culture is a thing anymore. But when it was a thing, people's careers got destroyed, their relationships got destroyed. So I think there were major consequences at the peak of cancel culture. - And I guess, but the reason, my point is for Dana to be, and I agree, he should be whoever he is. But what consequence is he going to suffer that would compare to the consequence of a gay person coming out and then being ostracized, losing their job? - I agree, I don't think- - The consequence is what you can't compare. - Well, no, but I think you could compare the consequence at the height of cancel culture where people looked at your belief and said, "Screw you, I'm gonna fire you from your job, "your friends won't talk to you anymore" and all that stuff. I think that there is some parallel there. - I mean, look, I also think when it comes to Dana White, if there is some criticism here, I think it's because he's got strong beliefs and there's just a lot of people, a lot of people who love Dana White, but there's also a lot of people who dislike Dana White. So I think some of that criticism here is probably based off of that too, and his relationship to the former president. And I think that's at play as well. - As of late 5.8 here, I would have to agree with Dana, with the comparison of being gay in the 80s, because we do follow influencers for their lifestyle. So by making them confined into our norm, it's taking away from them, they're off that tip selves. - Yeah, I mean, I get it. - Yeah. - Well, you have a problem with this. - No, no, no. Because when I watched the clip, I agreed with Dana. I really did that. I felt like what he was saying is not so much about cancel culture, but that he was not concerned about anybody trying to cancel him, because he's just got to be who he is. And I agree with that sentiment, and that should be for everyone. Now, people may disagree with the things you say which is who you present yourself as. And I was just trying to understand why people are so upset. And I think that's why it's rubbing some people the wrong way, is that Dana White is so successful, there's no consequence he's going to suffer. He's so, and that's why he brought up the blank you money before he said it, because he knew that that would be the reaction that people would say, what consequence are you gonna suffer for saying or doing whatever you want, Dana? Okay, we're moving on. So Oprah really opened up about weight and about how it impacted her life, especially back in the day. Remember the time when she rolled out that wagon full of fat showing, this is how much weight I've lost. - One of the most iconic moments from the open show. - It really is, it really is. - Well, she explained the downside to all of this, what happened right after that show. - This is sort of the, she talked about that bringing out the wagon a few months ago when she was talking about weight loss drugs. But now here's the other side of the story. She did say that she put on some more weight after that, immediately after that. But how did it impact her life? She was on the Jamie Kern Lee Michaud, Jamie is a cosmetics entrepreneur. And she explained that once she put that weight back on, it stopped her from going to social events. One in particular stands out in her mind, all these years later, must have been a hell of a party that she missed because she's still thinking about it. But here's what she had to say about the party and just about all the talk about her weight and how it's impacted her. - Even though I pulled out the wagon effect and in 1988 and I didn't have a morsel of food for five solid months in losing that weight on OptiFast that three days later, I was five pounds heavier. And a week later, I was 10 pounds heavier. The week before Christmas, I remember Don Johnson, the Don Johnson of Miami Vice was having a party and it invited me and some members of my show to come. And I wouldn't go because I thought I was too fat to go. For 25 years, every single week in one form or another, there was a tabloid story or some exploitation of my weight. Making fun of my weight was national sport for 25 years. - Wow, that is powerful, I gotta say. That is really-- - I mean, I've seen about it. It's been 36 years since that party and yet she, it is really stuck with her that, and that's the one thing she's talking about. - You know there must have been several other social engagements that they didn't go to. - But also just saying, when you hear her say that it was a national sport, you know, what-- - Can't deny it. - You cannot deny it. What's interesting is she, and I'm not saying this as a criticism 'cause I think it's the exact opposite. She was very open on her show about the weight and the wagon was just kind of a demonstration about her weight loss. She went on to talk about some of the jokes that people made or some of the skits that were, where she was the butt of the joke. She said that one of the worst ones was in living color. They did a skit where a woman was doing something and she just kept eating and eating and eating and getting bigger and bigger and bigger until she exploded and that was insinuating that that was what was gonna happen to Oprah. You know, the commentary about around Oprah's weight have been going on for so long even down to this year where she opened up about having to use weight loss drugs and having to step away from weight watchers because of that. And it just sucks that she's been having to deal with this for now decades on decades on decades. No woman wants to feel like they have to watch their weight not for themselves, but for the world. - I don't think she's saying that watching her weight was what dogged her so much as the criticism and the sport. - Oh, but I think because of the criticism in the sport, she felt like she had to watch her weight. - I have to do things where she was on a liquid diet for however many weeks. - Maybe, but she really made her weight an issue on the show. - Hello, my name is Karissa and I'm from Bloomingdale, Illinois and honestly, I think Oprah's just at this point where if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Celebrities are being opened now more than ever about weight loss struggles, how it's affected their mental health and it's been her time. I think she wants to reclaim some of that narrative and just address the elephant in the room that people have been talking about for years. - Well, they've been talking about it, but also she's been talking about it. And I do think, like, I know, but is she talking about it because other people are talking about it? Is she, or other people are talking about it because she was talking about it? - I can't answer that question. What I can say is, no, I can't answer it. What I can say is that when I hear her talking about a liquid diet for five months and then you hear ozempic. Again, I don't know what the long-term side effects are for ozempic, but it sure seems like a better way of living, a way better way of living than having to do liquid diet, right? (upbeat music) - One of our favorite guests of all time hands down easily, Howie Mandel. - True. - And so, we saw a story about something that had happened with Howie that surprised me for a lot of different reasons. One, I didn't think of how he is like a Vegas guy, that he would go out partying in Vegas. I don't know, I just feel like there's a lot of, we know he's a germaphobe and, you know, when you sit down at a gambling, you're gambling, there's all these people around who've been touching the chips. I wouldn't see that, but the bigger thing is- - He did go to Vegas. - He went to Vegas, he and his wife Terry were in Vegas and they had a good night, according to Terry, but this photo that he revealed of what happened at the end of the night is wow. - Oh my gosh, it's just, looking at that is just, it looks like me after vacation. (laughing) - You actually, you did kinda look similar. - It did. - How Terry's face ended up like that, has something to do with, my jaw dropped when I saw this today. I mean, I thought, oh my God, what happened to her? - Right. - So, it turns out that there are stories that are out there about this, that are not true. - Let's get the story straight from our friend Howie. He is joining us right now. Howie, welcome back to TMZ Live. - Hey, Howie. - Hi, Hart. So, set the scene, this happened in February. So, set the scene where you were that night and what happened here? - I was at the Fountain Blue and I was there to do Mark and Kelly, that show. And we had a beautiful time there, we went to Poppy's Steakhouse. Now, I tell the story, because I just trying to be, I said, we had a great night and we got a little tipsy and she got out of bed in the middle of the night and Belle. And it was really scary, you know? I didn't know, I found, I heard this bang and on the floor and I got up and I didn't, and she was in a pool of blood. When you split your head, apparently, there's more blood than any other-- - Oh yeah, oh yeah, you bleed severely from that part of your-- - Yeah, so I put her on the bed and I tried to give her ice and I didn't have ice and I gave her Kansas soda to put on her head and she kept going to that hill then she threw them across the room and I went and got another can of soda 'cause I didn't know that it was cut so bad and I did want to stop swelling and she threw that across the room and then finally I saw the bone, I could see the bone in-- - Oh, oh, oh. - Yeah, so I called down to the front desk. First of all, I want to say this. When I told the story on television, I said, you know, we got a little tipsy in that and the headline everywhere said after a drunken or some, you know, I can't remember what the headlines are but it says that she was drunk and we had an accident. First of all, she wasn't drunk. She's so worried that people are going to intervene and with her alcohol problem, she doesn't have an alcohol problem. I'm going to tell you the truth. She took gummies, she took gummies. So it's not an alcohol problem, she was on pot. - I love-- - I don't have a pot problem. - I love, no, no, I love that weed is way more respectable now than alcohol. - Right. - That's awesome, right? - Yeah, I didn't understand. She got mad at me. She goes, why would you tell everybody I was drunk? I go, well, I just said tipsy 'cause I didn't want to get into the whole thing. - The same thing, gummy bear, gummy bear. It's not a dick gummy bear. (laughing) - Okay, so she, okay, so she took it. She walked into like, I would imagine the corner, like hit the corner of the wall to cut her head open like that. Hit that fell and then hit the floor. So she broke her cheek but I didn't know this. So I called down to the front desk and I say to them, I gotta call 911, they go, what happened? I go, I don't know, I don't know, but there's blood everywhere. They go, we're sending security up. They send security up. My wife is lying in the bed. There's blood everywhere. There's coke cans that have been stroned across the room. - Oh my God, so they thought you were a-- - They thought you did it. They made me stand against the wall and they go, where were you? I didn't know this and my wife falls asleep to crime shows. The snap is on the TV in the background. They've got me against the TV. My wife is covered in blood all over the bed. There's cans that have been thrown across the room. - Oh my God. - And my wife has, you might think a great sense of humor. When we got back to the hotel, that's a picture of her heading back to the hotel. We got back to the hotel and she's opening the door into the room, we're going back in the room. Another couple is coming out and going out for breakfast and she goes, Howie, I promise I'll be a good girl and never say no. - No. - No, that's not funny. That is not funny. - Well, women, when you called the desk and they sent security up, did they also call 911 immediately? - Yeah, but security was there a lot faster than 911. So 911, I'll tell you this. So then the lady comes up with the ambulance. At the same time, the cops are there and they bring the gurney in and they look at her head and they go, Oh, you may have a concussion. You're going to need stitches. You have to go to the hospital. I go, yes, the EMT driver says to me, can I be honest with you? If I put her on the gurney, guaranteed it's going to cost you like 10 grand or something like that. You want to take an Uber and what? - Oh my God. - Oh my God. - They sent this seat. - Oh my God. - But that's what they offered me an Uber. And it was just crazy. With this cut on her head was still incredibly high and was trying to be funny. And I kept going, you know, this is not the time. I never thought I'd be the one in the room saying, honey, this is not the time for comedy. This is not the time. I was this straight man in this one. - Oh my God, can I tell you? I mean, it was horrific to see the picture, but the way you tell the stories, it's just hysterical to me. - Really? - Yes. - Your laughter are my tears. (laughing) I'm glad you're having a good time with my help. Thank you. - Okay, how we thank you so much for coming on. We so appreciate it. - Grabbing me. - Oh my God, I'm gonna be laughing. I'm gonna be laughing all day about that story. - Oh my God, that was unbelievable. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hulk Hogan back in the spotlight, but not for something you might expect to find him in the spotlight for. He's got a new product he's rolling out, which we're gonna talk to him about, because he actually thinks this can help bring the country back together. - Half the country hates the other half. He has a way he thinks of bringing them together. And look, we could use that. So if someone's got an idea, let's hear it. So we're gonna bring in Hulk Hogan, but we also want to talk to him about what's going on with Mike Tyson and Jake Paul and this fight, because Hulk has a connection to both of them. And I'm just curious whether he thinks it's still a good idea to go forward with this fight. So joining us right now, Hulk Hogan, welcome back to TMZ Live. - What's up guys? - It is great having you on as usual. So listen, here's my recon on this. I mean, we all know that Mike Tyson had a medical emergency on an airplane that he has an ulcer that is really problematic. They postponed this fight. What I'm told is that Mike could use the money and it almost feels like a movie, the wrestler, where at a point you should be stopping. So I'm wondering what your take is on this. - You keep forgetting his name as Iron Mike Tyson. And you know, this is just a small glitch in the system, a temporary setback. If you watch Tyson train, he's quick, he's fast, he moves like he did 20 years ago. I'm friends with both guys. You know, love Mike to death, but I was down in Miami at the Formula races with Jake Paul and I pulled Jake, as I said, bro, what's up with this thing? I mean, is this a work like wrestling? Are you guys going to really go out? He goes, I'm going to knock his ass out. And I'm like, oh God. I said, if I relate that message to Mike, which I did, I'm going to get a stir. Hey, they call me the Hulk stirrer. I want a stir to a fever pitch. So, I mean, I'm excited about it. I'm kind of glad that she's scheduled because I don't want any excuses. I want both men at 100%. And I got a feeling this is going to be the fight of the century, brothers. This is going to be a good one. Who do you got? Well, I have, they're both friends. Don't you even go there with me. I'm praying that both guys come out unscathed. No, no, I don't want anybody getting hurt. I just want to see a war, a war and I want to see a winner. Hey, Hulk, Jake and Tyson aside for a second, I just realized, Logan, Jake's brother has been a pretty big hit in the wrestling ring. I'm sure you've seen his matches. What do you think about his prowess in the squared circle? Oh, you know, that's one of the things I was talking to Jake about when I was in Miami, I said, I see a lot of great wrestlers coming along. A lot of guys don't have to be it that way. You know, it's kind of like steady as she goes. They all get trained. They all have the same moves. They all look kind of look the same. You have very few attractions like The Rock, Stone Cold, Andre the Giant, even the guy like Hulk Hogan back in the day with the retract. I see his brother as an attraction. I've never seen anybody pick up the timing, the placement, the coordination so fast. This guy's a real athlete. And when I saw him have his first couple matches, it looks like he'd already been into business 20 years. So I predict great things for him if he wants to stick with it. - Well, that's funny because you and I did an episode of Objectified Together. And basically you told me you don't have any original body parts left because of it. So maybe you should give him a warning. (laughing) - Well, you know, I keep telling everybody that word fake just kills me because wrestling's not fake. It's free determined. We know who's going to win or lose. But all that stuff that happens in the middle, it hurts and I'd have like 10 back surgeries, both knees, both hips replaced. So if it's fake, nobody gave me the memo. - Yeah. - Okay, let's talk beer. - Yeah. - Because I had to imagine-- - Hold on a minute, hold on a minute. Wait, you got to crack one open. - Oh man. - Hold on, are you aware that we have a rule you can't do TMZ live with a point to '08 or higher? (laughing) - Oh God, this is your first of the day, first of the day. - I'm at Hooters, I'm at Hooters right now, man, they're carrying my beer so I had to show up at Hooters with a few gifts for these guys. - So when people sit down to watch the Tyson and Paul fight in November, I'd imagine you'd like to see them with a can of real American beer. Tell us about why you decided to launch this. - Well, you know, I'm kind of like, always have my eyes open for great deals. I've been doing this for over 40 years, putting deals together creatively, structuring contracts, the work, so deals are fair for everybody. And all of a sudden, when I saw this whole promotional situation with Bud Light fall apart, I said, "Oh my gosh, here's an open lane." Kind of like a wild, wild west deal, like when I missed the George Foreman Grill, it's one of those once-in-a-lifetime deals that come along. So basically, when I saw this open lane in the open lane, said NASCAR, Americana, Country Western, wrestling, mom, apple pie, purple mountains, majesty, I said, "I've got a great idea for a beer." It doesn't matter if you're a Republican or a Democrat. This is way bigger than politics. It doesn't matter what sex you are, what you believe in, what you're racist. We have more in common than we don't. So I figured if I could come up with a beer that would bring America back together one beer at a time, we could do it with Hulk Hogan's real American here, brother. - I like the concept. This is the right time to do it with the conventions coming up. So you get, gotta get out to both of you. - Yeah, you get out of the conventions and then you figure out how to show it in an ad. - Can I do a crazy Hulk Hogan promo for you guys? - Sure, absolutely. - You guys ready? - Yeah. - Oh, two. - Two. - Fades. - One. Yo, real Americans, Hulk Hogan here, the greatest of all time. So what you gonna do when Hulk Hogan, TMZ, Harvey, and real American beer, bring you guys back together? What you gonna do? (laughing) - You still got it. You still got it, man. - You still got it. - Still got it. - It's great seeing you. (laughing) - Take it easy, man. - You guys are awesome. - The promo appearances for that would be great. - Honestly, he should be at the convention. - I know, I'm telling him. - If you don't have a product called Real Americans, you go there. - Absolutely. - Okay, we're taking it right. - All right, when we come back, rapper Sexy Red arrested in Newark, and now we know why, because we got surveillance video of a huge brawl that went down at Newark Airport, and she was right in the middle of it, in the middle of it with a very large potential weapon. (upbeat music) - Welcome back to TMZ Live, one of the most popular rappers right now, Sexy Red. Got arrested. We knew that it was for disorderly conduct, and now we can confirm it was super disorderly. - Very disorderly. Even though, look, right after she got out of jail, she posted a video to saying, "Yeah, I got out." She wasn't hiding the fact that she'd been arrested at all, but she didn't say what it was. So, let's go to the videotape as someone once said. Do you remember who that was? Howard Gosell was Warner Wolfe, but-- - Oh, it was Warner Wolfe, I knew that. - This is Newark Airport at 1 AM, and Sexy Red is the one there in the Orange Bonnet, and there's a whole group of people here who were going at it for several minutes. We don't know what started it, but we do know that-- - One in the morning. - Yeah. - I just know flights took off at one in the morning. - Harvey, I just took off on a flight that didn't take off until 1/20. It happened. - That was a delay. That was a delay. - Yeah, but how much did that delay do? - She could add a delay too, and then you're frustrated, which makes it all the, like, makes more sense of why they're falling like this. This is pretty spot-on for Sexy Red, though. This video is actually so hilarious to me, because the way she grabs the, like, the flight pole, and she's ready to use it, she doesn't actually use it, but the fact that she was ready to use it is just so spot-on for her. The fact that she didn't use it is why she did not get arrested for assault like some of the other people did. She did get arrested, but only for disorderly conduct. And then a super funny thing is literally the day after this brawl on her arrest, she went to WWE and was, like, the host of their NXT Battlegrounds, so she was even more wrestling for that weekend, so it was just a whole fight weekend for her. - I wonder if that's a defense to say you're on, or I was just hyped up. - Sorry, I was hyped up, I was practicing my moves. I'm on my way to an event. - Hey, this is Asa with Charlotte, man. We really got to just ask her, Sexy Red, why aren't you flying coach when you should be flying on a private jet? Secondly, I mean, we got to literally look at the fact that whose wig does she have in her hand walking through the door? Like, I hope that's her wig. Why is her wig outside of a bag? - I don't know if you guys know, but wigs are very, very expensive. Like, the cheapest 300 most expensive can be at like $2,500. - Guys, when I was in the National Guard, I got my wig was like 40 bucks. Maybe less. - I think I had long hair. - Thank you, corporate cling. - Corporate. - Corporate clinger. - Okay, that's not what you meant. - That's not what I meant. - No. All right, I don't know. - No, man. - That was to hide my long hair, Charles. - Okay. - Okay. - Okay, that was... - Oh my God. - Best fans though, what I'm talking about? - Yeah, and everyone else is doing it. - And other people know too, Charles. - No, they don't. - And it's not what I meant. Anyway, let's move on. - We're gonna move on. (upbeat music) - Emma Roberts, calling out George Clooney of all people. Why would there be beef between Emma Roberts and George Clooney? Well, that's because Emma Roberts was talking about Nepo babies, very popular topic lately, and sexism. Yes, and the fact that some people find that she is a Nepo baby, and that's what she was addressing, she says that there is an element of sexism in this whole Nepo baby debate because there are certain people who don't get called out, and that's where George Clooney comes into. - I think there's two sides of the coin. You know, people like to say, "Oh, you have a leg up 'cause you're a family in the industry." But then the other side to that is, you know, you have to prove yourself more. Also, I think there's something to be said where everybody loves the kind of overnight success story. And so if they're kind of not the girl from the middle of nowhere that broken to Hollywood, you know, there's kind of an eye-roll. It's like, "Well, your dad was this," and I always joke. I'm like, "Why is no one calling out George Clooney for being a Nepo baby?" Because Emma Clooney is an icon. - Very true. - But I feel like also the point is like, young girls, I feel like get it harder. - I agree. With the Nepo baby thing, I don't really see people calling out, you know, sons of famous actors, not that they should be called out. I don't think anyone should be called out for wanting to follow their dream. - I mean, Scotty Swood has been called out a million times for this. The George Clooney thing bugs me, and I'll tell you why. In case you don't know, Emma Roberts Ant is Julia Roberts, who was the biggest movie star in the career father, Eric Roberts. - It's Eric Roberts. - Eric Roberts is a huge star, too. So, look, George Clooney, to say, "Oh, well, George Clooney doesn't get it." And she mentions Rosemary Clooney. George Clooney ascended in the late '80s to stardom. Rosemary Clooney, who was a huge star, was a big star in the '50s. By the time George Clooney came around, she was doing toilet paper ads on television. - I do remember those ads. - And that's no shade on Rosemary Clooney. It's just she wasn't particularly relevant when that happened. So, she wasn't in play when George was ascending. And George struggled, because I worked with George's dad. - Here we go. - Well, I did. His dad, Nick Clooney, was the anchor of KNBC in Los Angeles when I was a reporter there. And Nick used to ask me, "George is going to come by. Would you sit down and talk to him?" - Humblebrag. - Because he's humble, but let me disrupt this. - So, I remember when a young George Clooney came to me-- - Would you stop? - Would you stop? Why wasn't Nick Clooney asking you a reporter? So, Nick Clooney is an anchor, right? - Because he's-- - And he's established in his-- why is he wanting you to give his son-- - I don't know. - I don't know. What do you have to do with acting? - Why would he-- - Oh, why? - It wasn't about acting. It was just about perseverance, because George was about to give up. And I was a guy that persevered. - He launched George Clooney's career, Pat St. Jack's career. - No, no, no. - No, no, no. - He tried to sink-- - I'm out. - He tried to sink, Pat St. Jack's career. - All I'm saying is he was about to give up acting. And I remember it. So, it wasn't like he was getting break after break. - So, George Clooney didn't make it because of his name. He made it because of Harvey. - No, that's what you're saying. - I am not. - Because you gave him this advice. - Would you stop out persevering? - No, right? - Warner Brothers recognized he would be great on ER. And he got it on his own. I'm just making a point. Oh. - Hi, Brianna from New Jersey. I think that I'm going to make some good points. I mean, George Clooney is not a good example because he obviously did make his own career. But when we talk about Nepo babies, we hear about the women a lot. You don't really hear about Timothy Chalamet, who is never really referred to as a Nepo baby. And I think overall, we just see these Nepo babies for what they post on social media. When that isn't really the whole story, that's just the highlight reel. And they go through rejections as well. - I'm sorry, but I'm supposed to put this off at him right now. - This is without a doubt the pride celebration I did not see coming. Never would have expected this, but kudos to Peacock. They have a new special, it's called Queer Planet. And it is all about queerness in the animal kingdom, plant kingdom, even fungi. I get it with the animal part. I'm not so much up on how it works in the other two kingdoms. But here is just a little bit of what the special is going to be bringing to you. And then we're going to be joined by a doctor who hopefully is going to make this clearer. - Gay penguins, bisexual lions, sex-changing clown fish. - This is a queer planet. - Queerness has always existed. - It's only in humans that we have such a stigma about it. - It's clear that no matter where you look on our planet, nature is full of queer surprises. To be honest, we should all probably get laid a little more than we do. - I'm fine with the last part of that. - Well, the last part is cool. - The latter part of it doesn't make a lot of sense except for the bisexual part. I mean, we can explore that, but maybe that's a diversion. So let's get our guest to know something about this. - Please. - Dr. Patricia Cachian actually appears in the Queer Planet special to help break it down. And she is joining us now to talk about what is just an absolutely eye-opening special Dr. Cachian. Welcome to TMZ Live. - Hi. Thanks for having me. - So let me ask you something. To me, it is absolutely no surprise if there are gay animals, bisexual animals. There's nothing surprising to me about that. It is surprising to me to hear about fungi and plants. Do explain. So there is basically an idea that a lot of organisms exist in some sort of binary, right? Like male and female and nothing in between. But what we actually see in both plants and in fungi is this whole spectrum of different reproductive strategies that organisms engage in to continue to produce offspring. And the idea that it has to be this one way or the other is just something that we actually very rarely find in nature. And let's take fungi, for example. There are some fungi that have thousands and thousands of different mating types or sexes, which is expressed in their DNA. And all sorts of combinations from that can lead to new combinations and new individuals reproductively. - I don't know if, Dr. Cachian, if you saw this Tommy Laren from Fox News that actually had a reaction to the special and she said, "If animals were indeed gay, there would be no more animals, just basic science there." And then there was a statement about gay animals getting special and protected status in the animal kingdom or just in the circus we've allowed in the human world. And it was ridiculous. That last part is ridiculous. But what you said about nature finding a way in the other two kingdoms, that wouldn't happen in the animal world, would it? - Well, so it does happen in the animal world. No, from scientists have, for many decades, been recording instances of same-sex couples in the animal kingdom. So in the documentary you learn about penguins and flamingos and all sorts of other animals that engage in same-sex pairings. And they not only just have sex with other members of the same-sex, but they actually raise children together that they adopt from other couples. So you see that not only does queer or non-binary sex happen and exist, but it actually contributes to the community. - I want to try a theory on you that honestly I've been thinking about now for about three hours. And look, I'm a big Bill Marfan. A couple of months ago he cited something that with baby boomers, of which I am one, 2% of the people identified as gay, or I guess they would be LGBTQ now. I would be one of them. In the Gen Z set, 22% identify as LGBTQ. And what Bill was saying is that doesn't make sense that how all of a sudden it could surge 10 times. And he thought some of it might be people just wanting to align. And I mean, I think his words were because it was cooler. But if you look at, I'm not saying everybody, but it is odd that it's a 10-time jump. It seems to me that if you could measure this in the animal kingdom it would give us a better read, a more accurate read on actual percentages possibly with human beings. Does that make any sense? - I think I see what you're saying. And I think part of what has happened is that there's been a lot more acceptance around being queer, so any member of the LGBTQ community. And so I would say that there's probably a few factors going on. One would probably be that people feel more comfortable identifying that way because some of the stigma has diminished. So much of the argument against homosexuality has been that it's unnatural. And there's been this, people have used that to make people feel really terrible about themselves. But now what is increasingly clear, we have so much scientific evidence that it is going to be evidence that it is quite natural. So we're hoping with this documentary and as one of the scientists who contributed to it that people having access to just plain biological facts could help them understand themselves more compassionately. It's not about convincing anyone to be anything that they're not. But it's just about increasing compassion in our community and helping people understand themselves in a way that's not about judgment. We're really so happy that you came on. This was really, really interesting. Thank you so much Dr. Kim. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It was really fun and I hope everyone watches documentary and enjoys it. Count me in. Count me in. I'm going to watch it. Really appreciate it. Wow. That is fascinating. I know you're hung up on fungi. You are totally hung up on fungi. I don't know what's going on with spores and stuff like that. We're used to seeing rock stars, country stars, pop stars on stage and fans throw stuff in appreciation. Unwanted stuff a lot these days. Yes. You're talking about like some things like that. I'm talking about something softer that isn't necessarily a great thing. Morgan Wallen is performing in Minneapolis. There was a fan in the audience who was very excited by his performance and decided to show a piece of clothing at him. Check it out. That's a thong. Right in the face. He didn't break stride at all. I will say. Truth be told. This is not a new thing. It's not a new thing. I don't know why. You know who the OG was with this? No, I don't. Tom Jones. There was a huge thing in Vegas where all the women would throw underwear. There's a difference in throwing a bra and throwing. No, he thought you were. Yeah, I agree, Charles. I was trying to put myself in Morgan Wallen's position here and I was like, "This is amazing." And I would want to know. Well, I'm sure you were. But then I thought, "You know what? It's Minneapolis. It's summer. It's humid out there." Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you saying... You don't know that. If you brought a separate dong, I'm cool with it. If you had it in your pocket, but if you took that stuff... What the problem is... I don't know I want that on my face. The problem is, when you throw it up, I have no idea if you took it out of your pocket or if you were wearing it. So that's a problem. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. No, no, no. I got it. I just solved it. No. Please don't say it. No. No, no, no, no. Derek wasn't performing anywhere. I know that. No one's throwing thongs at Derek. I promise you that. There you go. Andrew from Plainview, New York. I like how Morgan seemed unfazed by the thong, by catching it, and then throwing it back to the crowd. It didn't interrupt his performance and he just continued singing. But I think this trend of throwing things at celebrities could be dangerous, like what happened to B.B. or when a fan gave their mother's ashes to pink. I think it's just weird. Yeah, no. The ashes is definitely strange. Listen. You don't open the door. Abra is different. Abra is different. Abra. It's fine. How about throw nothing? I mean, I don't want to be a total party booper. No, this is dangerous for, okay, I won't be a killer. Yeah. Please. I thought often that you would post a video of a supermodel in the bathtub and people would have complaints. I think everyone would just be like, "Yeah, more math." Yeah, but when Chrissy Teigen plays dirty, she plays dirty. John Legend posted a video of Chrissy in the bathtub and everyone had complaints about their thought that was disgusting because the bathwater looked very, very, very dirty. But they have an explanation. What is happening here? Okay, all my body makeup off. He's a loved one. He's slowly eating. And uh... Okay, talk about living your life on social media. It's like, yeah, who would ever think to post? You're in the bathtub! That's what I'm just saying! Can't we keep anything private? I mean, that's what Chrissy should have been saying. Like, John, this is not a time for applause. She is all in on this. She is all clearly. We will see you tomorrow. (upbeat music)
