(upbeat music) - Welcome to TMZ Live RB11 here. - Charles here. - So the debate looms tonight and there is now a wager not with money but with power that RFK Jr. is putting out there for Joe Biden. - Yes, because you know, RFK Jr. will not be on the stage tonight in Atlanta. - Which, by the way, has pissed him off. He was on TMZ Live talking about it. - And yes, but he is really annoyed with the fact that people are calling him the spoiler that he could potentially be the spoiler in this election. It says he's not a spoiler because he can actually win which is all, all of that is why he decided to go to President Biden with an offer. He talked to Dr. Phil about this. This is an interview that actually is gonna air just before the debate on Dr. Phil's cable network but this is the offer that RFK Jr. is making to President Biden. - The poll that Zogby did, which is the biggest poll taken and that poll showed that President Biden cannot win the election. If I'm in, he loses President Trump wins. If he withdrew, that I could be President Trump. And if Trump withdrew, which of course he's not going to, I could be, I will, you know, landslide against President Biden. I said to President Biden, I said in my proposal, I said, let's do a spoiler agreement where we will co-fund a poll together, the two of us. And whoever in October and whoever is least likely to vote to beat Donald Trump will withdraw. Oh, do I expect that he will take that deal now? - Well, you've made him that offer. - I've made him that offer, you know. As he responded it all. - So, one of the things I find really interesting about this, because we've asked him always, you know, if it has to be between the two of them, which would you pick? And he's never like clearly said it. But I think he's kind of saying it here that he wants to beat Trump. And whether it's Biden, RFK wants to beat Trump. He's never really said that. But I think-- - It's clear, that's what he's saying here. - It's pretty clear. - We need to have an agreement because the most important thing is beating Trump. - I think that's what he's saying. - Yeah. - Now, there are polls. - He mentioned, yeah, there are polls. - He mentioned polls. And the poll he's mentioning is a little bit old. - Yeah, well, there are two. So there's the Zogby poll that was done last year. And that one showed him beating Trump handily and also beating Biden handily. - Right. Now, Zogby did another poll in 2024. Same results, though. He's beating Trump by a more narrow margin. But landslide over Biden in this Zogby poll. - You know what's interesting about that? If you look at our poll that we put out for the same thing. - RFK Jr himself looked at our poll at that point. - It matched the Zogby poll to a T. - Yeah. - So 36 to 64. So that is, look, again, the Zogby poll is basically dealing with the same number, although I gotta tell you, when you look at our polls, it kind of reflects. - That sometimes you don't need it to be scientific? - I mean, it ends up landing at the same place. - All things being equalized. - But the point I wanna make is that, you know, there are a lot of Democrats who are really worried about Biden's electability because it's hard for an incumbent to win number one. And number two, just because of things that don't involve issues, but involve perception and age and all, it is interesting that RFK Jr does so much better against Trump than Biden does the problem. - Now, this is just outrageous. This is all so ridiculous. RFK is objectively a spoiler candidate. Whether you're a Trump supporter or a Biden supporter, he is a spoiler. The reason why is because he has no path to victory at all. Right now, RFK is only on the ballot in six states. This campaign says that they have signatures to be on plenty of more states, but even then, they don't amount to 270 electoral votes, which is what you need to win. So this whole notion that he can beat Trump and he's the more electable candidate, it's just not the case at all. - That's what I, yeah, that's the part I don't understand in his, he's quoting all these polls. - Yeah, those polls don't take into consideration that he's not on the ballot. - Right. - He's gotta be on the ballots to get these numbers. - Unless they do write-ins. - I mean, the reality here is this, and I think this is what complicates it so much, is that, you know, to say that third-party candidates shouldn't run because they're automatically spoilers, it is true that they become spoilers at the same time, that the majority of people in this country are now not identifying as Democrats or Republicans, that when you really push them, they tend to be more independent because they don't like either party. So I think it's wrong to say third-party candidates shouldn't run because that is an option that a lot of people want. It's just, most of the time, it does end up as a spoiler because they're not gonna win. To say third-party candidates by definition shouldn't run, given the climate right now and the dissatisfaction people have with both parties, I'm not sure that that's a well-placed thought. - Hey, Phil Braun, Glendale, California. I think RFK can definitely beat Biden. He's in a lot better shape. Biden is very, very old, has dementia. Trump is for sure gonna get indicted for murder, and Biden, of course, is bringing in these yellow-doro spiders from China, so I don't think that's a good favor for him. - I think that's the one thing Trump isn't being indicted. The murder part is in the murder. There's a bunch of other things, but not that. - Okay, we are gonna move on. Yes, to Emma Roberts calling out George Clooney, of all people. Why would there be beef between Emma Roberts and George Clooney? Well, that's because Emma Roberts was talking about Nepo babies, very popular topic lately, and sexism. Yes, and the fact that some people find that she is an Nepo baby, and that's what she was addressing, she says that there is an element of sexism in this whole Nepo baby debate, because there are certain people who don't get called out, and that's where George Clooney comes into. - I think there's two sides of the coin. People like to say, oh, you have a leg up, 'cause you're a family in the industry, but then the other side to that is, you have to prove yourself more, also. I think there's something to be said where everybody loves the overnight success story, and so if you're not the girl from the middle of nowhere that broke into Hollywood, there's kind of an eye roll. All your dad was this, and I always joke, I'm like, why is no one calling out George Clooney for being a Nepo baby? - It was very clear. It was an icon. - Very true. - But I feel like also the point is like, young girls, I feel like get it harder. - I agree. - With the, like, with the Nepo babies thing, like I don't really see people calling out, you know, sons of famous actors. It's not that they should be called out. I don't think anyone should be called out for wanting to follow their dreams. - I mean, Scotty Swood has been called out a million times for this. The George Clooney thing bugs me, and I'll tell you why. And I, well, no, I mentioned this in the morning meeting. I think, look, in case you don't know, Emma Roberts Ant is Julia Roberts, who was the biggest movie star in her father, Eric Roberts. - And Eric Roberts. - It's Eric Roberts. - It's a huge star, too. - Yeah. - So, look, George Clooney, to say, oh, well, George Clooney doesn't get it, and as she mentions Rosemary Clooney, George Clooney ascended in the late '80s to stardom. Rosemary Clooney, who was a huge star, was a big star in the '50s. By the time George Clooney came around, she was doing toilet paper ads on television. - And I do remember those ads. - And that's no shade on Rosemary Clooney. It's just she wasn't particularly relevant when that happened, so she wasn't in play when George was ascending. And George struggled because I worked with George's dad. - Here we go. - Well, I did. His dad, Nick Clooney, was the anchor of KNBC in Los Angeles when I was a reporter there. And Nick used to ask me, George is gonna come by, would you sit down and talk to him because he's about-- - Humblebrag. - Because he's about-- - Humblebrag. Let me disrupt this, you know, I remember when a young George Clooney came to me. - Would you stop? - Would you stop? - Why was Nick Clooney asking you a reporter, so Nick Clooney is an anchor, right? And he's established in his-- Why is he wanting you to give his son-- - I don't know, I don't know. - What do you have to do with acting? - It wasn't about acting, it was just about perseverance because George was about to give up. And I was a guy that persevered. - You launched George Clooney's career, Pat Sajax. - No, no, no, no. - He tried to sink her back. - He tried to sink Pat Sajax's career. - All I'm saying is he was about to give up acting. And I remember it. So it wasn't like he was getting break after break. - So George Clooney didn't make it because of his name. He made it because of Harvey. - No, that's what you're saying. - We cannot, because you gave him this advice. - Would you stop out persevering? - No, right? - Warner Brothers recognized he would be great on ER. And he got it on his own. And that's how it happened. - Wow, you just totally forgot about facts of life. - How dare you, sir. - Facts of life didn't help him dare you. - I know he was on it, it didn't really propel him. It came and it went. I'm just making a point. - Hi, Brianna from New Jersey. I think that I'm gonna make some good points. I mean, George Clooney's not a good example because he obviously did make his own career. But when we talk about Nepo babies, we hear about the women a lot. You don't really hear about Timothy Chalamet, who is never really referred to as a Nepo baby. And I think, overall, we just see these Nepo babies for what they post on social media when that isn't really the whole story. That's just the highlight reel. And they go through rejections as well. - I'm sorry, but I'm supposed to put this off at him right now. I mean, that was such a cheap shot, but whatever. - I enjoyed making it though, so-- - I can tell you just relish. (upbeat music) - Ariana Grande's comments on the Podcrushed podcast about Jeffrey Dahmer, which we talked about. We talked about this a couple of days ago. Certainly raised eyebrows, she said she was asked by Penn Badgley, who she would wanna have dinner with. Anyone dead or alive? And she retold the story about saying it was Jeffrey Dahmer. - She wasn't saying it at that moment. - Hesitated it first, but then retold the story that she would like to have dinner with Jeffrey Dahmer because she wants to learn about it. - She had been asked about this earlier in her career, she said, and that was her answer. In fact, she was talking to a group of very young fans, she said, and still offered that answer. Well, we've certainly heard how the public has reacted to this, but more specifically now, we have a reaction from one of Dahmer's victims. The victim's name is Tony Hughes, and his family was very upset when they saw this interview that Ariana did. This is his mother speaking. To me, it seems like she's sick in her mind. It's not fancy or funny to say you would have wanted to do dinner with him. It's also not something you should say to young people which she says she did. First of all, look, I have great sympathy for anybody who is the victim of this horrific man who did what he did, and the survivors have a life of grief as a result of him. I get it. At the same time, I get what Ariana Grande is saying, and personally, I would like to sit down with Jeff, if I could have sat down with Jeffrey Dahmer, I would have done it. - I actually spoke to both the mom and the sister for Tony Hughes, and when I talked to them on the phone, they were so emotional. The mom was in tears as I was talking to her, and she kind of said it's not like Ariana was saying this in a deep kind of way. She was laughing about this, and they said that she has to remember, there's families that are still alive, that are still dealing with the trauma of what happened to their loved ones, and so for her to say something like this, like it's edgy or cool, it's just absolutely disrespectful, and they want an apology. - Yeah, I hope she doesn't give an apology, because look, I have a lot of empathy for the victim's families here, but at the same time, she's nervous about even saying it, but she has this inquisitiveness, I think, about him, and would want to understand it, and I don't think you should apologize if that's your intention. I mean, she's not trying to glorify Jeffrey Dahmer, but I would do exactly the same thing. - She was nervous about saying it, and to the point that the forensic psychologist we had on said, if you're nervous about saying it, it means that is exactly the reason why you should be more - She's a celebrity, and she's guarding herself. - Be more complete, and while you're saying you want to have the dinner with him, also mention the victims. Say a complete thing. - Here's my thing, if I could have interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer and had an opportunity, I would have absolutely done it, because I want to get in the head of a serial killer to understand the dynamic. I'm not going to apologize beyond that. That's what I want to do, and I don't think she has to apologize either, honestly. - Hi, my name is Jesse Chambliss, and I am from Dallas, Texas. I thought that Ariana's comments were a miss for me. I understand the fascination with true crime and wanting to understand more about what happened with the cases, but the true crime industry right now is glorifying these people who have done horrific things and casting hot actors to portray them in a series. We see that the families of the victim are very upset, they're bombarded with this ad nauseam. I don't really understand why anybody would also choose Jeffrey Dahmer as a dinner guest, because we know enough about his eating habits as well. - Yeah, and I get that point. I don't think she was-- - I don't think she was-- - She didn't mean it for that. - She didn't mean it for that. - Okay. - We're moving on. - Yes, moving on out to a puzzling meeting between Jennifer Lopez and her husband, her estranged husband, Ben Affleck. Obviously she'd been in Europe, he's been here, but we haven't seen them together in quite some time, but they had a meeting yesterday, a long one, at his office, not at either of their homes. We know that he's living in a rental in Brentwood while she's still in the family home in Beverly Hills. And it also seems like maybe there was some sort of social outing that they-- - I don't think this is social at all, man. - No, I think separately, but this is the way they're dressed. Like maybe they were each going to something after the meeting, 'cause they're just weird for them to be dressed this way for each other. - Here's the thing you guys, let me break it down for you. On Tuesday night, Ben Affleck was seen driving around Los Angeles with his hand outside of the window wearing his wedding ring. And then on Wednesday morning, so yesterday around 10 a.m., is when he goes to her office in Beverly Hills. And when he arrives, he's wearing a blue suit, looks very, very nice. And then she arrives shortly after him. They stay there for about five to six hours. Now, her outfit is interesting too, like you guys are mentioning. She's wearing a dress, she looks beautiful. She's got heels on, you can't really see her face in these ones, but we have a-- - Yeah, she's covering up for some reason. - She was, exactly. And then so she leaves about five to six hours later. We don't know if they stayed in this office building. We do know that her manager, Benny Medina, was with her. However, we don't know if she actually stayed inside of that office building. They could have gone to an event together that they had something pre- you know, already-- - I gotta tell you, here's why I don't think they went to an event together. They went to an event together, walked into anything together. There would be people talking about it. Even if we didn't get a photo, there would be people talking about it. - This is a six-hour meeting, okay? Six hours. They're, I mean, I would put money on this and it's not like I'm enjoying it, but every sign points to divorce. And if they're divorcing, they're gonna have to sit down, even with a prenup and work out details. If they went to a law office, and everybody knows the big players and where they are, and if they go to a law office, it's all out. If they go to their office, and that's one of the reasons she would cover herself up because she wants to get kind of slink in there. And they're going to an office, I don't know that it is, but if they're there for six hours, they're not just playing board games. - That's just a weird way for him to dress. - Maybe not if it's a formal, solemn kind of thing. And that's what it is when you sit down and divide a passage. I am not saying, 'cause I don't know that's the case, but when you start connecting dots, it's feeling that way to me. I don't know. - Well, when the debate begins tonight, we know there's one person who will definitely be watching because I gotta say, timing is everything. And the fact that Romine Chatura has a book out right now, it's already on the New York Times bestseller list, but you can always sell more. It's called "Apprentice in Wonderland," how Donald Trump and Mark Burnett took America through the looking glass. It's all about Donald Trump's rise as a figure in social media, in pop culture, and his time on the apprentice. So that's gonna be in people's minds when they're watching what happens tonight on stage. And the real question is, how does his time doing that and his ascendancy, which got him really elected the first time, how is that going to impact his performance tonight? Are we gonna see more of that tonight when he hits the stage? Joining us right now to talk about what we may see tonight, the man who sat down with Donald Trump for his book, Romine Chatura, welcome to TMZ Live. - Thank you so much for having me. So I interviewed Donald Trump six times for my book. We started in 2021, we went through last winter, 2023. I was in Trump Tower with him. We spent time in Mar-a-Lago together. And one of the conclusions of my book is that Donald Trump still operates very much as a reality star. He isn't interested in government. He's not interested in legislation. He just likes to be famous and he likes cameras. He likes to give interviews. He likes to talk to the press, even though he really beats up on the press. And it was really striking to me that after four years in the White House as the President of the United States, Donald Trump still viewed the world through the paradigm of reality TV. - I gotta tell you, having known him when he was doing the apprentice and when he was running, I totally agree with you that that is what shaped him and shapes him to this day. What I'm wondering though is I know you're saying he's an entertainer fundamentally, which is true. But to me, what he's done is he's figured out issues that he can talk about in his braggadocious way. And I'm not even saying that in a negative or positive way, but that's what he does when he talks about immigration, when he talks about inflation, when he talks about issues, he uses that... - The showman. - The showman part, showmanship, adding. - So he's kind of blended issues with entertaining. Does that resonate with you? - I think that's accurate, but I think you have to view everything through the lens of him being a performance artist. So Joaquin Phoenix, we're running for president. Sure, he would also be talking about issues, but he would be presenting himself as Joaquin Phoenix. And for Donald Trump, he is the man in the boardroom. He is this actor that he played for 14 seasons on the apprentice. And I think some of the policy decisions that he makes, he does move from one direction to the next, but he responds to the thing that gets the most support and that gets the most feedback and gets the most press. So when he says something, he gauges to see what people say and then shifts his view based on that. And it is all a performance artist's interpretation of being a politician. It's not, for him, I don't think it's really real. He's not really interested in governing. - Harvey, to your point, he is talking about the issues, but he's doing it because talking about issues that he knows he can put on the show. So, Romaine, are you saying that in your estimation after talking to him that it's all empty, that he doesn't actually have real concern about these issues that he's presenting? - I think that there's a part of him that's engaged, but it's engaged in the same way that he was engaged about whether or not to fire Dennis Rodman on the apprentice, right? I think he's on the surface level. He has opinions about everything. He was always doing interviews with Larry King. He would talk about issues. He would tell Larry King at the time that he supported a woman's right to choose. Now he's against abortion, but it's all part of this performance art that he has, and it's all part of this character that he's playing. - And I agree with you on that because the abortion thing is absolutely true that he was pro-choice until he started running. Also, I know somebody who talked to him right as he announced that he was gonna run the first time, and the person said, I'm surprised you're running as a Republican, and his response was, Democrat Republican, what's the difference? And said that to this person, and that was striking to me. But that all said, even if there's not a lot behind it, and it is more theatrics, explain how it's working so well, because the way you're presenting it is that it's kind of hollow, but yet, it seems to be correct for a lot of people. - It's hollow in the same way that if you were to enter a reality TV set, and you look behind what was happening, you would realize that there wasn't really much there, but it looks good on TV, and that's a secret. He looks good on TV. These soundbites work. People are paying attention. He's talking about sharks at his rallies, and people are like, why is Donald Trump talking about sharks at his rallies? But they're engaged. And I think he's somehow tapped into the psyche and the consciousness of the American public with what he's doing, and it's connecting in a very strange way, and one of the reasons my book is called The Prentice in Wonderland, it's like we're all in Alice in Wonderland. We all have this alternate reality now that's been inflicted on us. - I gotta tell ya, I'm really looking forward to reading your book, because everything you're saying, rings so true based on what I know covering him during that period. And a lot of people have kind of forgotten about it because you have a first term that people are looking at appropriately, yet to really understand the through line, you really have to understand what you've written about. So your book sounds fascinating. I can't wait to read it. - Thank you very much. And I interviewed him in my early 20s. I was a reporter at Newsweek, and that's why I came up with the idea for this book, and I have to tell you, he hasn't changed at all. He's exactly the same as he was when he was the star of a reality show. - All rings true. - Yeah, before we go, Romaine, we just gotta ask you, what do you expect to see tonight on stage at the debate? - I think that Joe Biden is gonna try to really talk about policy and how he'll govern, and Donald Trump is gonna go in full showman mode. He's gonna try to entertain people, deflect, make jokes, and make the TV. - All right, we'll be looking out for it. - Look, again, congrats on the book. I mean, what a great idea it was to do this. Again, can't wait to read it. Thank you for the time. - Thank you guys so much. - Really appreciate it. - All right, thanks for me. It's really interesting. - Yeah. - Really, really interesting. - He's right. You gotta go back long before he decided to run. - Because that's who he is. - Yep. - Absolutely. (upbeat music) - Welcome back to TMZ Live, and welcome back Rob Kardashian. - Yeah. - Boy, he's just, ever since Rob decided to step away from appearing in public, and even on the show, it's rare to see him. - He is Richard Simmons-like. - Yeah, he kind of is. But something drew him out today, and that something involved one of his sisters, which I guess is not shocking, because they're always doing all sorts of things, but he wanted to be there for this particular event. It's Chloe's birthday, and that's how they got Rob to join the party. It is her 40th birthday. - And Rob was right there, front and center at the table. Wow, look at that. - It's kind of like seeing Bigfoot, because the last time he was spotted was dreams party, which I think was in November, and it's just so rare that we get to see him, and it's just so interesting, because obviously, the rest of the family is so public. - It looks good. - And he looks good, but he clearly just wants nothing to do with it, and I know fans of keeping up with the Kardashians' love when he pops up, and I don't think he has in a while, so maybe this is a sign the new season. - What would be interesting is that he looks happy, and so if not being part of that, the circus all that often is what makes him happy, good for him, that he's been able to make that choice, and it's working. - And you know what's really interesting about this, is that everybody's saying, "Wow, what's wrong with Rob?" That he's not out in public and doing all this stuff. It's like-- - Nothing wrong with him. - It's like he's in a family where they live for the camera, and that's not for everybody. And if it's not for you-- - Yeah. - And that's all around you, you do kind of retreat, and that's what he did. - One thing that's interesting, go back to the video of the birthday cake, it looks-- - No, oh, the cake looks great too. But is he sitting right next to Malika, or is there someone in between them? - Malika I think's there, and then he's next to his grandma. - I remember Malika looking for a donor, a sperm donor, and Chloe had offered up Rob. - And Chloe offered up Rob. - We don't know how that's working out, but he said that he was unable to have kids though. Remember? Wasn't that how he told Chloe? - That's what he said, but we didn't understand that. We think he was just trying to make an excuse to get out of it, but I don't know. Maybe Chloe's birthday, and maybe it's Conception day. - Can I do a callback to a great movie? - Greece is the word, right? - Yes, it is. - Oh, great transition. - Great transition, which wasn't necessary, because we're still talking about the Kardashians, a couple of them who are on vacation. That would be Kendall, and her sister Kim. And Kendall's there with Bad Bunny. Chris is also there, and they're hanging in Greece, as you said, but who do you think they're hanging with? So it's summer in Greece. - Everybody's going to Greece this year. - It seems like this is the year for Greece, but they are hanging with the Bezos, or San Chezos, as we call them. - On the Chezos, right. Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos, they've got the yacht over there, the mega yacht, and they all went out for dinner on one of the Greek Isles. So, you know, good to be a billionaire with a mega yacht, where you just go wherever you want in the world. - My name is Lachey Sweeney, and I'm a Philadelphia, and I think that this may have been some sort of business trip or something for like a brand, or something like that, but I am interested to hear what was this all about from the Kardashians point of view, because, you know, they were all in Greece. I'm pretty sure they were enjoying their self, you know, link with a few people. I want to know what was going on when they were out there, where they're going on dates and things like that. I'm really interested to see what's going on. - Or you'll hear about it in a few months on their show. More than I am. We're going to move on, not saying much. Kevin Costner, speaking about the divorce from Christine Baumgartner, something he's been kind of tight-lipped about. He hasn't really talked about it, but he opened up a little bit about how he felt when things fell apart. This is Kevin talking to Gayle King this morning. - You've been in the news lately, you went through a very public divorce, so I am curious about how you're doing your head-wise and your heart-wise, and I mean that. - Well, you know, that's a crushing moment. - Yeah. - It's powerful, it hurt, but I go forward. I have no choice. My children are looking at me. So I can't wilt like a daisy. I have to go forward, I have to continue to be who I am and to keep a special eye on who they are. - So I got to tell you, I know something about this because when we broke the story of the divorce, I had spoken to some people who were in that world. That's absolutely true with him. He was blindsided by it, he was crushed by it, did not see it coming, and it really rocked his world. So it all rings true. - I think that's a bit different than the narrative. I think most people believed once upon a time or that we heard a lot about, which is that he seemed to be the bad guy, at least in the split itself, whether or not in the split of the money, that's different. But in the separation of Christine initially, I think there was a lot of sort of-- - Well, the story that was out there is that he was a workaholic and that he wasn't paying attention to her and that was her side of it. - And it was also this thing about maybe he was involved with somebody in Yellowstone, which turned out not to be true. - That turned out to be absolutely untrue. - Not true. So he was blindsided. I mean, he was living his life and then all of a sudden this thing happened. - Nina from Dallas, Texas, and while divorces are born to be messy, him being open about how he feels, I think says a lot about him. However, he's doing the best that he could do with his kids or for his kids, but 63K in child support, that's kind of wild. - She would have gotten more. - She actually could have gotten more, I know. (upbeat music) - Right, deservedly so. There is a lot of conversation about what the candidates for president are gonna say with their mouths tonight. What are they gonna, when they open their mouths, what are they gonna say, what are they projecting, what is important to them on issues and policy, but there's something else you should be looking for. And that is body language, a lot of experts. - It's mattered in the past. - It has made a big difference in presidential debates going back decades and we've seen the examples, you know, going back to Nixon. - I wasn't around for this one. - I was. - I remember it when I was a kid. This is Al Gore looking down, which wasn't, didn't serve him well. - Not good. - That's kind of an interesting kind of more physical confrontation. - Right. And that came up, of course, the physical thing came up a lot when Trump and Hillary were debating. - When he walked over to her. - Yeah, so. - But there's a lot about when you have your arms crossed, I mean, we didn't show all of it, but, you know, people like this. - Right. - You know, are they hiding something? It's a whole thing. - Yeah, so what to look for tonight? We are joined right now by one of the greatest experts in body language, Patty Wood. She has been covering this, covering, looking at presidential debates in particular for a long time, Patty. Welcome to TMZ Live. - Hey, Patty. - It's a pleasure to be here. It's exciting to have this debate. - Yeah, we're thrilled you're here. - Who is the most problematic in terms of their presentation when it comes to body language, Trump or Biden? - I actually think they both have their problem areas. But specifically, both of them have problems with what is called para-language that includes all the vocal cues, pausing. Both of them have issues with that. Of course, Biden has the lifelong stetter that he's been dealing with. So I'll be analyzing how smoothly they go through each line, each of their talking points, and specifically the strength and power of the voices. The critical four first impression factors are credibility, likability, attractiveness, and power. And power vocally is shown by volume level and how you keep the strength of your voice to the end of a line. - What are the strengths or weaknesses just physically when they are on camera? What's the thing you definitely wanna do that really strikes a chord with voters that they like and which things do they dislike? - We wanna work with likability. Yet particularly is good for Biden. He's really good at smiling and having the crinkle that she's a real smile about the eyes and having warmth in his voice and also good comic timing. Trump is really good on power. Specifically, he uses anger well, which is the strongest emotional state in a debate. And he has a great big sneer that he uses, a scowl on his face and it goes all the way up to his eyes and he has that strong voice that he can use. And typically he used a posture and puff up like a peacock. Non-verbally, now he's leaning on the podium more. So I'll be looking at how each of the candidates use the podium because typically in our limbic brain, we're looking for the strongest, most powerful candidate and often that goes to our limbic brain with the amount of space they take up. Shoulder with the space they take up around the podium. - So that makes a lot of sense when it comes to power and I get it. But when it comes to more subtle things, like crossing your arms, which I know a lot of people say means you're hiding something, fidgeting. But I always see that sometimes as a reaction to what the other candidate is saying. If you do this like-- - It depends, thank you, right. And there are over 60 different reasons why people cross their arms, many different interpretations. But profoundly you're covering up what I call the heart window and so you're protecting your heart from emotional engagement or attack. So we see people do other things. They might carry a pen or hold a pen during the debate. She uses a symbolic weapon but it also acts as a cover or a shield for the heart. And sometimes the way they even hold their body back, the shoulders, indicates how strongly they feel and how powerfully they feel because they expose that heart window all the way up to what's called the throat window, which we look for for confidence level, whether the chin is high or whether the chin is low to cover up the throat window. And also look because both of these candidates don't open their mouths typically really widely. And that can show or be interpreted in the limbic brain as a desire to hold in the truth. So it'll be looking for mouth cues, like suppressing the lips that indicate that I don't wanna answer that question or I'm concerned about answering that question truthfully. - So in the end, what is more powerful to voters? Is it the exhibition of being a powerful person or being a likable person? - Well, those factors all typically engage in normal interactions equally. But in the debate, all the research shows that power is the most important indicator of who has won the debates and often the decision about who's won the debates according to the research is made in a fraction of a second as little as 100 or 1/300 of a second. Typically before the candidates even begin speaking. - Oh, but that's because they've made up their minds. - They've made up their minds, they're entrenched already. - Right, well that is called a halo effect or the devil effect you've made your decision already. But there's, is it an opportunity, especially at the very beginning of the debates in the first critical three minutes, according to the research on debates for the candidate to go this over. They can do something and we go, oh, they're looking good tonight or I like them tonight. So again, critical factors, the very beginning of the debates and strangely enough, the very end. The last thing the candidates say or do, sometimes when the sound is off, we're looking at those factors that actually when the candidates are the most natural and honest with their nonverbal cues. So I always look at the beginning. - One question I've got to ask you, should one of them gesture to shake hands with the other? Because there's so much bad blood between the two. - I'm so interested in this. I've done three years of academic research on handshake. So I want to see who engages, does Trump even offer his hand because sometimes he doesn't. Who engages first? Because typically, they engage first. They're the most powerful. Oh, I like them better. - What if Biden puts his hand out and Trump doesn't engage? Who does that benefit? - It's interesting because the research is mixed on that. Typically, it's the person who initiates is showing the power. That's when I could see, as I say, you engage first, you offer first. But Trump feels he's more powerful by not letting somebody shake his hand. So I'm too powerful. You can't touch me. - That's a metaphor that goes beyond the debate. - Yeah. (laughing) - Oh boy, thank you, Patty. So much for the insight. - Yeah. - A lot for us to be looking for tonight. - Thank you, Patty. - It's a pleasure. - Really appreciate it. - The biggest takeaway I got there, I heard her say that it's positive to have wrinkle lines around your eyes. - Oh God, I must. - Yeah. - Look at me. - Look at us. - America loves us. (upbeat music) - Bill Gates has something to celebrate, it's a big milestone in his family. His daughter, Phoebe, graduated from Stanford. - By the way, a big deal. - Yes, that is a big deal. - That is a big deal. - That would be enough to celebrate. - But there's something bigger. - She made the graduation extra special because it was a coming out for, - We should say she has a boyfriend. - And so we got introduced to a boyfriend. - That is a young man. - Yes, he is Arthur Donald. - Arthur Donald. - What does he look like to you? - Well, what does he look like to you? - You can see, you see the lower third, I think everyone knows. - Oh, no. - He is, Paul McCartney's grandson. - Yes, 25 year old grandson. - When they do that. - Of Paul McCartney, his mother's Mary McCartney. And yes, there have been rumors that Phoebe and Arthur were dating. - But the thing is, look at this. I mean, they're in Paris. - Yeah, so they were in Las Vegas. - No, it's Paris. - It's Paris, but they've been a thing. And nobody's put the dots together. - There were rumors, but this was their big coming out. Apparently he like carried her into the graduation party. - He carried her into the graduation party? - No, what I don't know is, did he go to Stanford? Did they meet at Stanford? I don't know the answer to that, do you? - I don't. Anybody else know? - But, but, but, but. You know, we were talking about Millie Bobby Brown and Jake Bon Jovi. And Jake Bon Jovi as this incredible, and they are. - These two just said, hold my beer. - Exactly, we're going to show you a power couple. I mean, no offense to Millie Bobby Brown. - No, it wasn't saying it was offense. I mean, I was just saying, that was such a big deal. But then when you look at this, I mean, now, Millie and Jake are actually married, these two are just dating. - But we're going to go ahead and start thinking about the wedding. - We're going to talk about the wedding. - We're going to talk about the wedding. - Because that would be, who pays? - Bill Gates pays. - No. - Paul's a billionaire. - But Bill Gates is a multi-billionaire. - It doesn't, you don't do it that way. - He is, he can afford, what do you know from? - He can afford it, well, what do you, well, anyway? (upbeat music) - I have not been to Australia. - Well, I went, and I spent two weeks down there, and every day I was terrified. Every day, terrified of running into what Chris Hemsworth did. And I know he's Australian, so maybe it's not a big deal to him. I don't know how it could not be. Watch this. Terrify. (dramatic music) - Look at that. (dramatic music) - Nope, nope, nope. - I'm not, he's still standing there, and he barely fled. - He didn't move at all. - They're not, they're not poisonous. - I know, they say they're not poisonous. - So what do you think of this for the slogan of Australia, for the, for the chamber of commerce? - Uh-huh. - Come to Australia. If the sharks don't kill you, the spider is well. - That's beautiful, yes. I'm sure that the tourism board is printing that up right now. They're going to love that. - I've got a book my ticket on Qantas, folks. - That's it for us, we'll see you tomorrow. (dramatic music) (lively music)
