THEFT, VIOLENCE, CONSUMER SAFETY, EDUCATION, TRAINING, PERSONAL PROPERTY, COMPLIANCE, INSURANCE, ACTS OF GOD, REAL ESTATE, TAXES, AND TRANSPORTATION, WILL OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE DOUBLE STANDARDS AFFECTING REPOSSESSION. This is Automotive Ecosystem on ATI.
ATI Auto Business
Double Standards Impacting Repossession and ARA on ATI AE show 358
THEFT, VIOLENCE, CONSUMER SAFETY, EDUCATION, TRAINING, PERSONAL PROPERTY, COMPLIANCE, INSURANCE, ACTS OF GOD, REAL ESTATE, TAXES, AND TRANSPORTATION, WILL OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE DOUBLE STANDARDS AFFECTING REPOSSESSION. This is Automotive Ecosystem on ATI.
- Duration:
- 1h 23m
- Broadcast on:
- 09 Aug 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
Tired of double standards with the auto repossessions surging now in 2024, American Recovery Association needs you to know what's at stake in your business. Join von Klemens, Dave Kennedy, Jeremy Cross, Marcus Potter, Amy Bedner, Richard Grobner, and Mike Pepk-Linsky. Sorry, Mike. For an important discussion tonight about rising inspections, expectations, and costs. I'm excited. A repo agent service care for customers, vendors, and situations. This is a really important discussion. We've been working up towards this, so please do say hello in the live chat, make new friends and learn from the best on ATI Auto Business. What's up ecosystem? Welcome back to ATI Auto Business. Automotive ecosystem. Try to slow it down a little bit, Jay. Lots of people watching. I'm pretty, I'm pretty excited because this is where everyone learns more about the automotive industry. Do me a favor. Let's get started with some top industry news and headlines that include Wall Street recession panic, CDK aspirate, techian legal fight, and dealership phishing scams. So please do say hello in the live chat. Thank you so much for doing that. Please also leave a like, click share, copy, grab that YouTube link. Hello YouTube. Hello LinkedIn. This is show 358 in a row on a Tuesday night on ATI. This is, these are important issues affecting repossession. And we have the American Recovery Association with us here tonight. Many of the members, Von Clemens, Von is the president of the ARA. We have Dave Kennedy, chairman of the compliance and government regulation committee of the ARA. Jeremy Cross is with us, board of directors ARA, treasurer of the ARA. Marcus Potter is with us, board of directors of the ARA, chairman of public relations and client relations committee. Amy Bednar is with us, board of director of the ARA chairperson of the ARA membership committee. Richard Grovener, member of the ARA, member of the compliance and government committee. And Mike Peplinski, he is committee man for the contract and insurance committee for the ARA and VP of Harding Brooks insurance. We're going to be talking about a lot of topics tonight. They are going to take over. I'm going to take the first 20 minutes or so, you know how I do it. I've got news, actually got quite a bit of news. A lot happened yesterday. But before we get to that, I just do want to mention that agents are expected. There's a lot of expected of them. And there is an article that came out talking about double standards and lack of compensation for all that they do. And that is the topic tonight. And if you find that the ARA can be your advocate, you need to join and become a member. They're also going to be talking about that. You know, I always say know your ecosystem in automotive, new, used, OEM dealer, auction, logistics, remarketing, recon, compliance, and tech. We have a lot to talk about. It's automotive ecosystem. It's Tuesday night. And don't forget my Thursday show, industry logistics. We've got a B-lean fitness Brandon Rothrock founder. He's on the show Thursday because you got to stay in shape when you're on the road. You know how hard that is. All right, let's do some news. There was an OBS update. The images are a little different. I'll be juggling a little differently tonight. Here we go. Nightmare on Wall Street. You saw this stock market bloodbath sees down Nasdaq plummet as renewed recession. Fears trigger global sell off recession. Oh, God. $1 trillion wipeout market route punishes mega cap tech. The seven most valuable US tech companies lost combined $1 trillion in market value at the start of trading Monday yesterday. The tech heavy Nasdaq was down more than 3% following the index's steepest three week slide in two years. Nvidia shed more than $300 billion in market cap at the opening bell, though quickly recovered about half its loss. Shares of the chip maker closed down 6.4% for a loss of $168 billion. Apple, Amazon, Meta, Microsoft, Alphabet, Tesla added all up. Almost a trillion dollars. Worst day since 1987, Black Monday crash on Wall Street. Bitcoin plummeted 11%. Investors nervous for weeks have been. Goldman Sachs economists raise limited risk of US recession to 25% chance. Economists at Goldman Sachs raise likelihood of US economy slipping into a recession in the next 12 months. I know we're going to get it out of the way, but it is applicable because tonight shows about repossession. The unemployment rate also rose unexpectedly from 4.1% to 4.3. Point two doesn't sound like a big deal, but it is total July bankruptcy filings spiked 24% year over year. This came out today. Economists talking about the recession yesterday. Here's newest bankruptcy data provided my reinforced point of view from experts who see things already in a recessionary state. US bankruptcy filings in July increased 24% year over year. Individual bankruptcy filings registered a 25% increase. Chapter 11 filings jumped 40%. Wow. What's the Psalm rule? Are we already in a recession? Three economists respond. All right, the Psalm rule, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, the rule is named for economist Claudius Psalm, who previously was part of the Federal Reserve and Council of Economic Advisors. The rule signals the start of a recession when the three-month moving average of the national unemployment rate rises 0.5 percentage points or more relative to the minimum of the three-month averages from the previous 12 months. There it is, the Psalm rule. You're seeing this, right? I think, I think, I know it was another automaker was a stellantis saying something very similar, might have been GM offering buyouts to salaried workers. And you're seeing a lot of this too, open to work. There's a lot of changes in jobs on LinkedIn. So, let's keep going. Asbury, CDK locked into a legal fight over data control ahead of Tekkion pilot. Tekkion was a big name about a year and a half ago at NADA. It's this tech. Good one, Jay. Asbury says CDK is holding its data hostage. Asbury says CDK is holding its data hostage. Okay. Weird timing. Asbury, Automotive Grouping is suing its dealership management system provider CDK Global and seeking an injunction, compelling the Risa Ford dealership's data for Asbury pilot with Tekkion. Now, drawing a countersuit in opposition to the injunction from CDK. CDK's intent has become quite clear that it tends to squash its competitor Tekkion and force Asbury to stay on CDK's platform by holding its data hostage, says Asbury. But CDK accused Asbury of using software to improperly collect the group's information stored with the DMS provider to clear the data access for Asbury as a regular renewing CDK customer was contractually limited to the data utilities. Yeah, I can't follow it either. Sounds like a good countersuit. After more than 13 years with CDK, 13 years. Come on. Asbury had planned to test Tekkion's DMS of four locations. But CDK is refusal to hand over Asbury's data as though an aggression to those plans, they say it's based on, I don't know, their payment terms sucks. Dealerships warned about phishing scams tied to global cyber event. Two cybersecurity consulting firms are warning dealerships about scams relating to crowd strikes, Catastra. Oh, geez, from CDK to crowd strike. Which, which scam are you on? Geez. Dealerships already smooth by the CDK global cyber attacks face new cyber threats risks stemming from the crowd strike outage, which by the way was, hmm. Crowd strike is a cybersecurity pro provider whose problematic software update led to crash. Yeah, problematic. You think a July 31 warning issued by cyber security consulting firm Helion caution the cyber criminals are pursuing what's known as social engineering phishing attacks using fake internet domains that appear to be crowd strike in an email encouraging dealers to click a link for an immediate patch. Don't click it. Helion's warning included a screenshot of another phishing email claiming to be crowd strike customers updating servers void disruptions here. Click here. Dealerships cybersecurity firm black breach saying criminals are exploiting their their exploiting the global crowd strike outage. They're posing as crowd strike staff in phone calls. Oh, man, they're making phone calls. Wow. And as an independent researchers claim to have evidence that technical issues related to they're saying it's a cyber attack. We're on the phone. I had a guy calling me once. Hey, this is Verizon. You need to call me back right now. Didn't sound right. I didn't call him back. He did call back a few minutes later. I didn't answer that one either. Voice mail is full. The economy is growing but so are auto repossessions. That doesn't sound right. Says this article from consumer affairs. There were two headlines last week. Seems at odds with each other gross domestic product rose in the second quarter. Excuse me. At the same time, vehicle repossessions are spiking. Hmm GDP exceeded expectations in the second quarter. Restoring faith of the economy is easing into sustainable growth. Recent statements from the Federal Reserve officials confirm that a rate cut is squarely in view. Ah, everyone's talking about when is that going to happen seems positive sounds good, but reposs are surging. What's going on? Eric Kelly, an economist and chief investment officer at UMB banks as consumers could be struggling more than most economists realize noting that the true leading indicators for the labor market are all in severe downturns. Definitely appears that the labor market is softening. Jobs are becoming harder to find. Wage growth is cooling. Official unemployment rate has been slowly climbing as average four percent. I think we saw earlier 4.3, Ken. That's a sign the labor market is cooling off. Many people who bought expensive vehicles a year ago may no longer be working. There it is. In addition, that San Francisco fed us full of status showing that all of the excessive savings built up during COVID-19 have been completely burned off. Yeah, you shouldn't have gone shopping with all that COVID money. Oh, well, simultaneous and normal savings rates in the US have dropped near all time below. So yeah, people don't say why would why would you bother doing that? While the average household has spent all of its stimulus money, but I mean, you know, it is it was to be spent. It was stimulating. It is also socking way less money on a monthly basis. This would make them vulnerable to any disruption to their income stream, which we know is happening as the unemployment rate climbs. Car repossessions were down 2020 to 2022. Don't forget the moratorium due to more forgiving lenders, government stimulus to cover payments. In 2023, things change lenders weren't so forgiving. Stimulus money stopped. Thus begins the countdown. 2023 repo levels were on par with 2019. Households, meanwhile, dealing with higher car insurance payments, rising house costs, and that contributes to missed car payments and this year's increase in repos. So here it is. Chickens coming to roost. The federal moratorium on foreclosures, which included car repos ended July 2021. Dude, that was three years ago. Don't even remember three years ago. I found car repos in Australia affecting Australians the same way as Americans. Double digit increases in insurance costs, rising gas, rising numbers 13 the past. Okay, with numbers rising by 13% in the past six months, 11% over the last quarter, Australians are falling behind on their car payments. 90 plus day past due figures now at about twice the rate of two years ago, measured against credit cards, personal loans, auto finance. People tend to delay the car payment or miss the car payment before the house payment. The home mortgage is now sucking a bigger component of spending and everything else is suffering. With the car loan, there are fixed loan periods. There's generally very little wiggle room to refinance. But the tide likely to turn for off-least vehicle volumes in the second half of the year. Man's gonna be a lot used vehicles moving around. Numbers in this segment are expected to take a hit in the second half of 2024, not likely to return to pre-pandemic levels. However, lease turn ins are looking at a year-to-date auction check-in at Manheim locations through the first half of the year. They've climbed 94% year over year. Wow, portrayal 2019 levels. All right, so industry-wide, the number of off-least units in the wholesale market plunged to 400,000 units in 2022, then climbed to 800,000 last year. The company Cox Automotive anticipates 1.1 million off-least units in the wholesale market this year. Does everyone say, "Well, what about lease turn ins? What about lease turn ins?" Okay, as we move into the show, it's time to stop the double standards in our industry. We need to resolve critical issues protecting our costs, our time, our businesses. Agents are currently expected to provide coverage for any damage incurred regardless of fault to units stored on their lots. That gets expensive. Lenders must come to expect that storage fees will be necessary part of doing business. We cannot continue to hold our breath each time a storm passes over. The auction community does not carry the risk when an act of God occurs with a unit stored at their location. Neither should the agents. Additionally, when transported as damaged vehicles, while they are in possession, we face significant risk. Blenders must allow any agent who has the ability to perform locksmith services to provide the key to the unit. Boy, that seems like common sense. We have a lot to talk about tonight. ATI is where everyone learns more about the automotive industry, so we're really glad you joined us tonight. We are the ecosystem's neutral zone. We take some shots. It's ATI. I don't ship cars, man. I move information. And I'm here twice a week. Let me know how I can help contact me at atiautobusiness.com. Get the podcast, listen in, enjoy the show. It's the automotive ecosystem. Do my favorite stick around right up to this. We're going to be live with the American Recovery Association. 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You want to quote the right price the first time every time run your business with TAQ, visit transportautocorder.com. All right, here we go. Thank you so much. Please do. Help me wish a very warm welcome to you. We got an incredible group here at night. American Recovery Association, can you see me and hear me okay? I talked about how I want to have a conversation like we already had a webinar. So let's just go ahead and jump into something right now. Vaughn, what do you want to kick us off with? Well, Jake, first of all, thank you for allowing us this opportunity to be on your show tonight. This is one of those these shows that I think I've been on. This is my fourth or fifth time and you are sort of bringing different sectors of this industry together like the transport and the repossession industry and we appreciate that. I first want to tell you what the ARA really is looking to do tonight and that is to start a conversation around conversations that have been historically taboo. No one wants to talk about what's really affecting these agents and I'm going to start off with this. I mean, the purpose of the ARA is to advocate for our membership and that membership could be aged with 75 trucks across an entire state down to one agent whereas wife and the husband are running the business. We have a duty to educate them and to show them the eras that we've been doing for years and it's actually affecting our industry. So I'm just going to kick this off with anybody on the group who wants to talk. I don't want to steal anyone's thunder. But I think the first conversation we want to talk about really is the insurance and Dave is our compliance guru and we have Mike Popliski, who's our insurance guru and we really want them to jump in and talk about the difference between direct primary coverage and how that's affecting our agents and why we'll still we'll still providing that when the storage is ended years ago. Dave? Well, thanks Juan. So 30 years ago when we were truly partners with the clients and don't get me wrong, we started our partners but it's changed. It's not the same type of relationship we used to have. They paid us storage, they paid us to, they understood the risk that we took. Unfortunately, as the industry changed and the forwarding model came into place, we lost a lot of the relationship value that we had and in order to put ourselves apart from public towing companies that mostly carry legal liability insurance and Mike Popliski will describe that to you. We moved into direct primary insurance that really put a heavy burden on the agents. Mike, you want to talk about how that has changed and what that has cost us and the insurance companies and I'm sure Mike will tell you about how many companies have bowed out. It is very difficult now to find insurance in our industry. Well, appreciate it Dave. First off, starting with just a number of carriers out there. 10 years ago, there were 7 to 10 carriers that was played in the space and that's not even a high number in most industries but it wasn't a bad number. We're at two, maybe three, depending on your territory in the country of players that will ensure this industry. Commercial auto is always going to be the number one issue when it comes to insurance but right behind it, we're talking garagekeepers and garagekeepers covers really has two different distinct coverages. There's a legal liability garagekeepers coverage and then there's a direct primary coverage. Direct primary, which was mandated in all the contracts for repossession owners, strictly is basically whether you're negligent or not, we got you. We will cover it whether it's hail, flood, wind, vandalism, doesn't really matter. Negligence is irrelevant. We will cover you. Now, that's what the repossession companies have to have and that's an expensive piece of their premium they pay. The legal liability, which all towing companies, auction places have, is strictly the insurance company covers you only if they're negligent. You take all those acts of gods, the wind, the hail, the flood, vandalism, if they didn't do anything wrong, they were not negligent, the insurance company does not have to pay. When you look at at that standpoint, the premium from a garagekeepers is literally about double depending on your territory where you live. It's about double. Over 90% of the claims we get from a garagekeeper standpoint falls only under direct primary coverage, which means what? The repossession companies are not negligent. They take so many precautions from cameras to security. Everything's locked up. Keys are separated. They're in the utmost controlled environment. The negligence is at a very minimum. All the claims that we see, and there are a lot of them, and they're big, are garagekeepers direct primary only, which means they're not negligent. Richard Grozner, he's on with us. He had a very unfortunate thing that he did nothing wrong, but he had a $2,300,000 claim a couple years ago, Richard. You want to explain what happened to you and your team? Yeah, that's right. Being in Georgia, we obviously get a trail of the storms that generate up from Florida, which is very dangerous. It disrupts your business, so obviously the cost involved. In the Georgia, Atlanta area, we hardly ever see hail. I didn't even know the hail storm had hit the Atlanta office until I got to work Monday morning and discovered it late in the day. It was a small piece on its hail, but it dinged. When you've got four or five acres full of cars, significant damage. Well, it's lucky we have you and the insurance to cover it, however, and it did, but your loss runs will haunt you for years. When you're offering this free storage, for example, just think about that. You're storing all those cars free, assuming all the risk and liability, and something totally, like you said, out of your control, and then this disrupts your business, and that's going to haunt you for the next four years on your lost runs. The cost is just insane, even though it covered it with a deductible, what my lost runs of my renewal cost us. I mean, it could bankrupt a small company very quick. We were able to sustain it, move forward, but it's incredibly expensive. As you know, the banks have been making record profits over the last at least six, seven years, and they've basically have found the way to offload their accountability and liability onto the small business community in America, and not just banks, other large industries as well, but it's something that's caused a large disparity in our industry over our ability to provide our services and to keep our companies open when the big stakeholders have offloaded all of their liability and accountability on that the small businessman. Now, we just had in the last 30 days, we had two scenarios that came across, and both obviously were not negligent by the repossession. One out in the Texas area, the big hurricane that came through, wiped out a lot of people in terms of their cars. When we hit over 20 cars and one shot, just like that, wiped out. Another one where they picked up the car, brought it back. Literally three hours later, all of a sudden, started smoking, caught on fire for whatever reason. I don't know. Then 20-something cars later, they finally got the choir under control and put out. No negligence of any sort by the repossession company, but they're going to be having probably a $100,000 to $200,000 claim on their loss runs. What I tell everybody is, hey, this is what you're paying for. You're paying for this direct primary, so all the assets are covered for these lenders out there. You need to get compensated, because I can tell you right now, you are definitely paying for it. The premiums that you pay is expensive. Literally, you can cut this garagekeeper's premium probably in about half. I mean, that's some serious premium dollars that every single one of you guys can cut. But on the flip side, if you want to give it, that's great, but you need to be compensated for it. It's really one of the two. Right now, we're stuck in the middle taking all the risk and doing it for free. It's ironic. We're having this conversation tonight when there's a storm marching up the eastern seaboard, and there's four folks, maybe five of you on this call, that are in the direct path of that storm. Marcus, Amy, Dave, Jeremy, you guys, Richard, you're on the off-course of it, but any of you guys want to jump in and say what you guys have done and how you all are holding your collective breaths, hoping that your yard is not destroyed by the storm. How much can we, if you don't mind, I'll jump in on Marcus. How much can we really prepare ourselves for? Right? We all have contingency plans. We all have operational plans that should a storm come through what we can do to help mitigate it, but we're limited to our ability. We don't have abundance of space. We don't have the ability to move our cars to another part of our coverage area, maybe outside of the storm, because a lot of our lots are full, all of them, right? To a certain capacity depending on how much volume that, but even if you're a small mom and pop shop and you have two trucks and you might have one lot, where are you supposed to move your cars to? Are you supposed to move them out of the path to the Home Depot parking lot, maybe 10 miles away, and you've got to move them one at a time? The risk, we don't mind providing that service. We don't mind, we understand the need because it hasn't gone to auction and has a soul and we got to protect that consumer and the lender property, that's fine. Where it really becomes difficult is we're getting in on, we're going to squeeze on both sides. We have this looming act of God coming where we're really stuck and we can't move cars fast enough, we can't get them off the auction, but at the same time on the other side, our lives are full and we can't get more space, we can't get different space. What do we do? On both sides of that coin, we're squeezed, right? We're at the mercy of when I get a release that I can move the car to auction, we're at the mercy of auction or third-party transport or come and pick up that car and it's tough to do that without compensation. Everyone on this call, every roof disaster, will have no problem providing that insurance for the return benefit because when we do get those maybe once every 10 years storms and we have a 200, 300,000 dollar coin and we know our premiums are going to go up for the next five years, we can afford the increase because we know or when our lots are full and we have to move from one lot to another lot and have extra space in case something like this happens, I have the ability to call on my trucks and maybe call in other transporters to help me move to another lot, another facility because I have the ability to do that. We can't do both sides and we're doing and we're being asked to do both sides with full lots without compensation and it's not good for business and it's you know what the wrong storm will wipe out a company who was at one you were around Houston when Harvey came how many companies were you know how many you were right down the barrel in Houston how many companies barely hung on during Harvey or after Harvey how many you know lots were wiped out in one storm. Yeah I think the Cox has experienced such a loss and it becomes it becomes just a normal routine on the way we do business but I think to your point Jeremy there's got to be a benefit towards this risk so here's our ask to the client community this is what we're looking for for our agents to start almost demanding either you pay the storage to compensate for this cost or you take the direct primary coverage out of our requirements the double standard comes in when someone performing the exact same service sort of storing storing these units are not faced with the same liability the risk is one of these storms could put us out of business and that's not fair Marcus Amy I'll let you guys chime in. Yeah so Vaughn I've reached out to our ARA membership today and there are 30 members between Florida Georgia and the Carolinas right now impacted by the storm one member that I spoke to has eight lots that are experiencing excessive flooding right now so just to put those numbers in perspective they're just holding their breath and asking for prayers right now because that's really all they can do so Marcus I know that you're a little closer to it. Yeah so I'm in Charleston we had a news report that came out that said we could see potentially 24 inches in a three-day period that's a massive amount of rain so as Jeremy was talking about the squeeze that's put on some both sides of the coin you know what can I do all you can do at that particular point is try to move to the highest part of ground and get as many vehicles off your lot as possible but imagine you know watching that storm come in and then seeing the direction in which it's going and trying to do that on the fly it's just an impossible task and we don't have the space to move it to I mean all I'm going to do is regurgitate kind of what everyone's already said you know if we're not getting paid the storage we don't have the space we don't have the ability to move it 10 miles it's just a no-win situation that every single one of us are in every day you know in in addition to the acts of God remember this kind of covers everything no matter what happens if it doesn't matter if your network or not it covers one the more frequent issues we see is the debtors breaking into lots it's all locked up they cut they break in illegally and you see them walk right up to the door you guys have cameras boom they got the key five unlock the door and they'll get in and just drive right through your fence and we all know who it is and then the lenders are like well you know it was in your possession pay for it as much as I love to say no chance that's that we know who has it the coverage you have triggers and they will pay for it every time and again no negligence whatsoever but it happens very frequently right Mike I know I've I've spoke to you about it unfortunately in Cleveland the borrowers have become so emboldened we've had three three incidents in the last calendar year where in broad daylight during business hours we've had debtors and tertiary parties return brandish a weapon stick a gun in our employees face and make their way into the lot and get their car back and I tell my staff don't be a hero just give them their car and but now we're responsible for for the cost of that car and for the insurance everyone's like hey it's not our fault and guess what it is not your fault but it's not the insurance carriers fault either it's it's part of doing business right they well I will say Mike if I might interject not every client is taking that course and in credit where credit is due there are recently we got a contract verbiage specifically talking about the theft retaking of the property by the debtor and I'm going to read you I'm going to read you a section of this contract if you don't mind it's funny because I have it up specifically on this that I thought was really somebody taking this you know by the rent and and not forcing the responsibility on the agent the pliers shall not be responsible for any or liable for any cost associated with them list a missing collateral or the recovery of the missing collateral if and one of them under no circumstances shall supplier bear any responsibility or liability for any missing collateral that is reasonably believed to be stolen by the client's debtors or any person associated with the client's debtors they're up that specifically that piece that is a a client and I don't know if they want me to put that their name out there but I hope you know it gets taken back to them whoever you are we commend your your weight absolutely we absolutely applaud that client who is a forwarder by the way who's taking that right responsibility off of the ages back now obviously we have our due diligence we have to you know do what we can to secure the property but in those instances beyond our control they're not holding that against us and I would like to see more clients take that lead you know take that lead so Jim I've been and say now I was talking to Vaughn a little bit earlier today and I was kind of doing the same commending a client for taking a step and he quickly prompted and corrected me and said he listened if they're not going to pay storage then we got to remove the direct primary because they can put that verbiage in there but you're still responsible for part of that which means you got to buy the coverage and if you're buying direct primary coverage you have many lots a lot of people have a lot of lots it's expensive and you're giving coverage away for free without any you know any money coming to you so that is a great baby step but I think Vaughn hit it on the head of that's only a baby step and we need either we're getting paid or get this thing removed and that's the ultimate goal I think Mike and Jeremy kind of going back to your point it's incumbent upon us to set the standards the problem in our industry is we've allowed the folks that we're doing business with to not only set the standards for us to also control the standards that they set and I agree with what you're saying that we want to commend them but until the ARA and other associations our industry sets the standards and push them across the space will forever be behind the eight ball I think we're the lowest folk in the totem pole really and we have to start to say but the most important in the ecosystem and it's time for us to come together to unite not under the same umbrella but under the same process that this is affecting us all and you know I think it's important this these are great conversations we're looking for collaboration we're looking for conversation but we're looking for solutions that will limit our exposure and the liability we face each day yeah thank you Vaughn and I just like to add to that to guys I think that what we're looking for in our space is there's so much risk in every aspect whether it be the weather the reposition itself the transport etc every aspect of our business has significant risk and we assume all the risk with little to no reward and that has to stop yes there's other double standards one how about education and training yes Dave jump right in the police so the repossession industry realized at least 10 years ago that compliance and education and professionalism were becoming key you know as too many people watch television and they and they see the Wild West shows where the guy jumps out of the truck grabs a shovel goes after somebody and they think that's the way we are we the repossession industry today is probably one of the most highly trained and educated industries in the United States we spend countless dollars man hours on educating and training our employees to protect consumers and the problem is is that other parts of our industry for example that J don't take offense but the transport industry and and other parts of our industry are not required to meet the licensing we already talked about the insurance and the education and compliance training that we are required to provide to our clients and again that puts us at risk and the whole ecosystem of the automotive industry uh due to uh again double standards in education and professional business practices that were required to do that they are not I'm gonna jump in and say thank you is that you're not wrong about the education and I mean we know that on ATI is that in car hauling yeah education is important but you don't really need much to go pick up a car at a repo lot and you know you just do it now you may do it wrong because you don't know much but we need more education in the repo space we just we do you know J a lot a lot of that has to do with collaboration I was reading a post on your leaked and page yesterday and you had a gentleman comment about us he said things like we chose to specialize in this field so he said that your next story should be about the difficulty to transport his face picking up vehicles from our repo y'all he said booking appointment to crap and that the recovery space needs to get more normal release hours he said he had no empathy no sympathy rather for repo companies and he apologized that we took on this line of work because nobody held a gun to anyone's head and we've all made a decision to be in this business we need to figure out where to survive now I thought about that comment comment and what it reminds me of is the general consensus among anyone looking down on our sector and I reiterate the word down and if I had a conversation with that gentleman I'll tell him he's absolutely right no one held a gun to our heads but the recovery agents no on this call and no one that I know we're not looking to complain or whine we don't want any handouts many of our members and anyone in this space are second and third generation families in this industry we're all blue collar workers and we weren't forced to do this job and no one held a gun to our head but they're holding a gun to our head and forcing us to accept things without any signs of negotiation and we're in trouble I'm thinking about that one agent that comes into this face and he has a truck and an idea and the only contract he's able to hook onto is a border and he's introduced to this sector with contracts that are shoved on your throats is to take it or leave it mentality and this is what he's faced with for years and what happens is he becomes to expect that is being normal so to Dave's point there is education needed but we need to collaborate we need to speak to the transporters make them understand where we come from as well as the client and at the end of the day we need to take our businesses back we need to gain this is the start but we're not looking to just have conversations we're looking to have action and I will actually recommend you have another conversation with the transporters on the line about how we can collaborate better we've done a show like that before Jay I think it's time we do it again you know Jay if I can take an moment and add to that I had an interesting conversation this past weekend I was at a convention and there were a couple of auction houses there and I was speaking to those auction houses and basically the same thing Bond was just saying as I was talking to his auction houses there is a lack of understanding between the transporter the auction house and the repossessor at the time of them wanting to come and pick up the vehicle I think that not only should we get those transporters involved in some of those conversations it would be great to get some of the auction houses involved as well so they can become and learn a little bit more about the industry and what happens on our side of the fence absolutely and I mean this really is amazing because I once thought the same thing about appointments I didn't get it the more I learned the more I understood and then I realized oh the things I was thinking are exactly the types of elements in the comment you were talking about and I'm really glad that comment happened and I'm glad you brought it up because that's the reality one of the things that in the transport space I'm just going to mention it that I don't think it gets talked about enough the turnover so high in auto transport that if you educate a group this year next year you'll have so many new faces they they they miss the whole speech I don't even know how that education happens in the three to five minute segment every time somebody joins the industry and what where do we start what do we tell them also I just want to say this is that what transporters don't know is how much they have in common with the repossession industry as far as feeling like they're at the bottom because the double standard for the repo agency in auto in auto transport is the broker it's tough conversation I will say this and I know Dave is modest he probably won't mention this but it is through his direct work that we have the CCRS platform a compliance portal that allows us to educate and train anyone entering this space the problem is is that's simply not enough and just just like the repossession industry the transport industry as well you can't just have anyone that can breathe and have a peasant truck entering into space more of a for the repossession space if you're consumer facing you must be able you must we must make it when you have to go through a set rule of certification prior to repossessing your first call where training is involved and I think what Dave was alluding to earlier is the double standard allows folks to enter this space without that training unbeknownst to the client on the far end that this is happening and we must talk about that the air rays in the process of putting together another segment where we can talk about this this this issue that's plaguing our industry and it's happening happening behind the scenes but we must push push this to the forefront and discuss it okay group we talked about this so camera one welcome to ATI we are at 747 we've done really well in the past 20 plus minutes talking about important issues but it's only halftime we got another 20 minutes to fill and I know that there's more and I made you know made some lists of some things I'm gonna start saying topics and someone's gonna jump in well jay before it before you there we go all right i want mike i think part of the education is explaining the direct primary and i know you said already mike but i want anyone in the in the room listening we're not complaining about this we just want to say to jeremy's point earlier if we call some damage we have a duty and responsibility to pay for it but we don't want to pay for anything regardless of who's at fault and not collect storage for that service there's a hard cost with providing this direct primary insurance and dave um he's the oldest in this group he spoke elderly about it how years ago when they brought this into the space storage was in the place in this space and it was it made sense but storage has been gone for many years and the direct primary is still here and it's putting agents out of business so i think we really want pointing on that stay there and make sure our audience understand we're not complaining we're simply making a point and i'm going to add this do you know the transporters think that the repo lots making money off storage hmm yeah we actually think that tell us we're wrong what's wrong about that you're not true oh no what jeremy took jump in there and talk about this is jeremy we set the stage jeremy yeah yeah so when i say we're not making enough on storage so there are clients that do pay storage there are some in various degrees right you have some very few god bless you day one storage and and we have those we have ones that pay after 10 days and ones that pay after 15 and ones that never pay um all in pricing which is the worst thing that's ever touched our industry is all in pricing um but um from the eyes of a transporter let me let me try to paint a picture right before i get into the ones and zeros and twos of of how we calculate our storage costs um there are under the assumption that delaying picking up cars from us is due to us trying to pat a storage bill um anybody watching this right now who's a repossessor will flat out say i want this car off my lot as fast as possible like i went it off my lot yesterday okay uh because the longer it sits on my lot the more i have the less opportunity i have to turn that space over right my goal that parking space cost me a daily number and and the 17 state association got together just recently um of which i'm a i'm a member uh president of the Pennsylvania state association um who participated in it and we actually submitted our numbers uh what it cost to throw a car on a daily on a daily rate the average across the country when you calculate rank or mortgage your employees time utilities taxes insurance all next stuff and you divide it across the amount of spaces you have on your lot there are folks that averaged about four dollars a day and then there are folks that averaged about 14 to 15 dollars a day and god bless them i don't know how they're not pulling their hair out but um the average cost of that space across the country was just under six dollars a day i'm doing this for memory so um you know don't call me out on it but think about that so if i store a car for 10 days it cost me it cost me $60 okay if i store for 20 days it's $120 and so forth but if you're only paying me a flat rate $400 a repo if i'm lucky right $60 or what is that 15% right off the top goes to storage goes to covering the storing of the vehicle no longer for the repo piece or or or the the overhead it goes right to me for the privilege of storing your car and the longer that goes on the more or the may i lose in providing a free service then that means i have to get bigger space if i want to bring in more cars i only make money turning that lot over i i'm in the repossession business i'm not in the storage business so if i'm not repossession cars i can't sell you keys i can't sell you transports i can't sell you storage um because everything starts and ends with that car coming in if my last fool i don't repo i have to send my guys home i told this story at NARS because it was on the panel talking about storage um and i mean this and August of last year we had a record month for IRS absolutely blew the doors off it was amazing till September came and we lost for full and we shut our lot our our business down three separate times in September where i had to tell my staff sorry guys you have to go home i can't put any cars on the lot today because i'm not enough cars left the first time i did that oh cool we get a you know three-day weekend the second time i did that it was um okay the third time i did that um you can believe the questions that came with it um and those are days you never get back so that cost it was amazing that all the 17 states and all the companies that participated in it actually came together and put this out and and we're working on something um we actually did an article that went out and i'll see a collector uh that gave this template to anybody who wanted to participate and do their own numbers to see what those costs are and understand what it costs you to store a car and when you're negotiating that contract with the client they say i need my five days my 10 free days my 20 free days you understand how much that is costing you in the repo right so um to that topic i know i'm being a little long winded i apologize um but i would tell every root disaster here you have to know your numbers don't know your numbers you're gonna be in a in a world of hurt eventually and to those transporters that think we're you know padding i don't have the people to release the car to you the day you call me you want the car you have to schedule out because i don't i have to play gender on the lot to move cars to get your car out when you don't show up when your appointment time right and i got to put that car back i don't like you very much because now i can't charge anybody and it paid somebody to come off the road to move that car move five other cars to get your car and i got to put it back and then you're going to come the next day and and demand it then so yeah i i get from their perspective they think that we're we're making tons of money on the train uh on the stores i can tell you we are not and when you don't show up for your appointment because you're stuck in traffic or you're mad at us because we want you to set your own appointments on uh you know through our systems or in um with the paper trail understand why we have to do that so i'm going to jump in manly great stuff i just want to say this Marcus is that this also gets into who got hired to pick up that repo unit and i think that we need improvements on how that's done too because it when it's just random rando that's not working i want to add two things to what Jeremy was talking about one i'm stealing from him from i believe the NARS show just to keep it simple student because i think it's a great way of talking when transporters think that we're holding the car i want to give it to you from a different perspective Jeremy used an analogy of if my lot will hold 100 cars and i can turn that spot one time i can only repo 100 cars in the month when you think about that we're only making money if we repo cars if i'm sitting on that car and my lot's full i'm not repointing more cars i'm not making any money that's about as simple as you can make that the second part when he talked about jinga with the vehicles we shut our game at two o'clock in the afternoon and spend three hours playing jinga every day three hours getting prepared for the transporters for the next day imagine trying to do that in the middle of the day at noon when you've got 18 willers sitting in your parking lot and you're trying to dig a car out on the fly we can't do it so understand that's a whole nother reason why we need an appointment i would say probably every single person on this call and most of your repossession agencies out there prep their vehicles today for tomorrow's transport because that's what the process has to be because we don't have big enough lots not to stack those cars three four five cars deep there could literally be an educational ongoing series in the mobile app by the way um that just day in day out tries to help educate and keep these things moving because transporters if there are there's a transporter right near either live or on demand hearing this for the very first time then they didn't know that well i can tell i'm going to extend a very warm welcome they are more than uh welcome to come to NARS in um april of next year april right and we we have classes and uh speakers that talk just about this topic uh anywhere that we can help assist our transporter partners that want to participate we're more and we will welcome them with open arms um and and they can ask us questions and you know what if we're both informed about how the other one participates and we are become a unified front how much easier does it get for us to communicate and accomplish our goals so repo and transport needs the help of the auction and the lender to help create a financial incentive so that happens and so that lanes get built so these things get moved faster and more reliably that's what needs to happen well there will be plenty of lenders there and we welcome the transport uh transporters to attend to and if we have the opportunity to extend that welcome out to any auction participants that want to join us they're more welcome to join us as well we love the album and it would be great to see a company take this idea and run with it and do that at a show that'd be amazing okay so jay there's a question in the chat that and it's a pre-valid question what happens if we can't get rid of the direct primary direct coverage or pay the storage we can't get the client to do either or it might while we go through this brainstorming session because we are looking for solutions what can we do as a whole to make this happen you know i wish i had a good answer for you Vaughn um it's one of those that and i even thought hey can we just we'll just take away the direct primary and we're giving them legal liability and you know what they don't want to pay tough they're getting legal liability but then it goes back to the contract right and everything goes back to the contract where if you signed off saying you're responsible you're gonna have direct primary coverage whether you do or don't it's really irrelevant to them whether you pay for it or the insurance company pays for it someone's gonna pay for it it's not going to be them because you signed the contract and you're liable to uphold that contract if you want to really get um in strong arms say we're not doing it then most likely you're gonna lose a client and no one's looking for anyone to lose a client no one's looking for anyone to take it on the chin themselves um but that's what i love to do i'd love to just say hey you don't want to pay then you're not getting the coverage but it kind of goes back to the contract and what you guys signed and what you guys are agreeing to upfront so Mike i don't want to put you on the hot seat but you you also sit on the contract committee is there something we can do at the contract level to just put this up the tedious up to the clients to start a discussion around why this is no longer needed and when you think of the direct primary you have car lots um have millions of dollars worth of inventory on their lot that they own for the most part there's a reason for them to carry that coverage we don't own this crap and i'm sorry to say it we don't own it there's no benefit for us providing this coverage if we can't charge for the coverage so is there something we can do contractually to to maybe tee this up to them maybe they just don't understand um i mean Dave was the one who came up with this a week or so ago the direct primary was not a part of our industry you know 40 50 years ago it came into be and it's been here even after storage ended so storage is no more and the clients have a repudiation for that word they hate the word storage you're not gonna get it we're not gonna but okay we'll take that well we're not going to provide this and that's where the negotiation must come into play is there something we think we can do at the contract level to get these folks to answer those hard questions well first off i'm much more of a fan of keeping the direct primary coverage and having these assets covered for the bank slenders um i think it's more valuable to them however on the flip side if we're not going to get storage if they're not going to pay storage then it's one of those kind of united fronts that we need to kind of get a couple of these lenders and i know some of them have uh you guys have their ears some of them are are looking some of them are willing to sit at the table and talk and try to partner with us we need those to help lead and make the change and kind of the domino effect other people will follow you know we can change the contracts right away will they go with it they haven't yet right so it's kind of one of those who's going to take the leap um can we get a lender to do it can we get enough large players to just say hey we're not giving it um it's a great discussion to have though you know it's one of those that when we were up at capital um with the repo alliance crew in the ARA we had those discussions of storage and and that kind of bullying technique that these lenders are kind of doing saying hey if you don't want it we'll go down the road and get somebody else to do it and that's not what we're looking for right that's not best for anybody so it's one of those um that it's constantly uh on the table we need to continue to push it we need to continue to communicate and continue to educate you know why is and i've never gotten a good answer hope why the towing in auction houses um yards can have a legal liability former crotch keepers and you can't um besides you guys have been taken advantage of long enough and they just feel that they continue to do it um you know and and you really i'll be honest you know i said it earlier you you really kind of opened my eyes when i was calling you earlier like kind of all excited of hey this is a good baby step you're like hey baby steps don't cut it anymore you know we either need to get paid or the coverage is gone and you know if you're not negligent why are you paying it and and that's where you're at right now so um it's on the table a lot of people are listening and uh we need to continue to get the right people in the seats and and make some things happen just as around Robin and Dave i'll start with you and let's just circle the group do we have any idea or thoughts that we can generate and maybe start putting this on the top of our agenda where we can i don't want to say force that's the wrong word but we want them to lose that that stat what it's the way it's always been is the way it always should be done we can't continue this and Dave i'll start with you what are your thoughts same question posed to Mike what can we do to the to the person in chat who asked a question to to make this a part of the conversation at the client level i think the first thing that we have to do is that we are we have started doing a better job at educating the clients to our day-to-day operational difficulties that we have and what some of the status quo has cost for example you know they lost you know approximately 33 percent of the repossession ages across the country uh over the pandemic and we've we've started to do that but i think that we have to show them how this race to the bottom and not providing your qualified agents with compensation for line items such as storage and keys and other special equipment we use to protect them affects them and and not just in the repossessions it affects them uh when it comes to their ability to take care of the American public without us out there mitigating loss and providing an avenue for them to recover mistakes the the auto auctions of course would suffer you know what do we get what do we think at 2.5 million vehicles a year get thrown in the auction due to us of course lease turnings are a lot more than that but i i think it's education we have to really but we have to push the partnership i understood Amy any of you guys want to jump in mark this Richard yeah i was gonna i was gonna take off a little bit on what Jeremy and Mike both said so we have one client out there now that is willing to take a piece of that off of the table if we can get a major lender then to take direct primary out of their contract and let that be a domino effect to get to another lender to another lender if we can do that three or four five times over i believe we will change the status quo or at least we have the potential to change the status quo i think yeah great good point Marcus i like to add to that too you know i think that in our industry we've always been so quick to pull the trigger i think like Dave's explained and Mike's explained you know for the listeners out there take advantage of the opportunities send those contracts to to Mike and his team and let them review them right and i want to share something with with everybody on this call in the audience listening um we're blessed to be a solid company one of the major banks in the southeast has reached out so hey we want to we want to come back to you you know what we've done business with them in the past and now they've so yeah we need your service we need your help and i'm thinking okay well i know what your contract entails i i'm very aware and they want free unlimited storage within the contract and i right up front told him not interested don't even bother bored in that contract over if you're still entertaining free storage and i know it sounds crazy and they pay really well and their success rates good it's it's the cream of the crop of a lender but sometimes you just have to say no and let them know you mean business well i got the contract about two months later my wife reviewed it we've talked about it we've discussed it we run into the same problems everybody else we want to keep shuffling the cars we want to keep growing do we want to put out the risk and give away free storage we don't we don't the contract's been laying on their desk i guarantee you for two months and we haven't followed through and we're very adamant up front we're not interested in entertaining and giving away free unlimited storage so let them soak on it a while let them think about it if they really need you and you're that good they'll come back to the table are they going to have to use somebody else somewhere and i want to pause here what does the lot look like that says yeah for unlimited storage all day no problem what does that look like because i'm comparing it to the transporter that was mentioned in the live chat that they were not happy with and that's what that's why everyone says don't haul cheap free right and jay i just want to add to that that um my taxes my property taxes triple it's public information pull it up for yourself look at it you'll see i'm not lying about uh i'm not telling anything untruthful my property taxes for atlanta office tripled in one year and now we've got to find a way to pay for it and it's not with that free unlimited storage with that new bank i can assure you well what about all the people who lease their property since covid and and uh you know in our competing there was a a webinar i did earlier this year competing against the likes of amazon and ups and fedex that are taking all these uh industrial areas which were very limited to where we store cars from now we're competing against companies of that size um that has you know unlimited dollars to to throw at at a property you know here in the northeast you know to to lease 10,000 15 20,000 in an acre um you know and higher think about that on three and five year leases you're you're talking about if it's 10,000 an acre for three-year commitment three-year lease which is a small you know three-year leases in our space are almost unheard of usually they're five and longer that's three hundred and sixty thousand dollar commitment that oh by the way if you don't pull a single car you still have to pay you can't unload it you can't sell it like property if your business changes you're locked in right so you know there's a lot that goes with this that i think uh most people take for granted the level of commitment that we have to open in our space and then the assurance that goes with it i for one am not advocating dropping the direct primary coverage um i think that is a good service and and takes care of the customer while in our possession i'm a big advocate you should you should be paying for that service period like that's that's the win you know uh allow me to continue to do that to take that risk off your customer that uh and let it go to auction but compensate on the other hand the i think the other side with removing the direct primary yeah it's going to save us a couple bucks um might say the the client a couple bucks but i think that in the long run that's the the wrong way to approach that i think that's my thing both sides is what exactly what you said Jeremy the better cover the assets properly that's the biggest biggest assurance is a good thing insurance is a good thing listen as a matter of fact we should have the insurance and those auctions should also have the same insurance but that's the topic for a different day right you know you have an auction auction people have in the same conversation they might think differently but imagine what that would look like i wonder how much would change of all this sudden the auctions have a carrier that seem direct primary and that's an auction you know manheim has 10 000 cars are a lot hey hey mike what do you think that premium would look like there are you guys going back to your your your your statement there so do you i i'm like you i would prefer to keep the coverage if but there has to be a if behind that if the storage is paid and yes the client community forsakes that word right now we it's it has to be either or you oh yes geez i would love to have that but if they if they don't provide the the revenue behind us providing that live that coverage for them that we must project it we must we must have the opportunity to say it's no longer available for you to even accept unless you pay i mean we have to have us we have to draw on the saying but it has to be done collectively across the space it must be a standard one i i agree i i was to talking about what i think the the best preference for all parties should be is to pay for the service and continue to provide this service every everybody does win in that in that scenario i think if you go the other way and and you remove it you're in the long rung it's going to cost you more than if you just pay for pay for this storage absolutely it's about on well i i would i would i'm sorry to keep pushing that but if we have legal liability coverage in place of that if they say there's nowhere we're going to pay storage across the board and we can add legal liability instead of the direct primary then we can't lose if it's our fault if we call if we're a negligent in storing their vehicle then by all means we should pay but we shouldn't cover a hurricane or tornado or somebody coming in and through a lock fence and tearing it down and busting all the glasses out of the car there's got to be a line drawn in the sand and it must be either or and that's that's my position Jeremy i mean i would pray that they would say yes i mean you think about what they don't you think about from the insurance standpoint right you can get a legal liability policy you can get a direct primary policy either way the insurance carrier is going to charge appropriately and you choose right it's not going to say hey we're going to pay out direct primary but we're only charge your legal liability it doesn't work that way however in your scenario does right i mean i think it's like you said my earlier it starts and ends at the contract um and we're doing a pretty good job at the air rate of looking at contracts i think the contract committee is nearly ready to release a standardized contract version that we need to push out to the entire space the words matter in the contract and direct primary must go away if you don't accept just a daily storage rate what that number is we can't set it but there's got to be something to provide that that coverage we definitely got a look at that in the um committee um and get some sort of very big one or two ways okay jad i will say this i know we're getting close but i want to just commend the folks on this call everybody on this call including mike are volunteering their time in this professional capacity i mean every one of them dave has been years and years and years of trying to make this industry a better place for us all and we do this because we have a vested interest um we've been in this business for years in my case 40 years and i have seen the decline and the loss of control but we're volunteering this time we're not getting paid to be here i'm not none of us are paid to be an ARA member none of us are being paid to be an ARA committee person or a board member none of us the purpose of this is to create a strong industry that progresses in a matter that benefits us all not just the lending community it's got to be a win-win for us all and until we can negotiate these contracts we're in a losing situation and i'm passionate about this because i've been in this business for so long i've seen it go from really good to really bad and it's been so bad for so long and the only way we can fix this if if we unite across every platform the Eagle 20 allied and ARA come together and get these guys are hanging around on the fences not a part of anything and get them under the tent so we can push this with one force the ARA cannot do this alone it takes all of us collectively thinking the same way we want our businesses back and it's going to take it's going to take us all thinking the same way it's going to create it's going to take standardization in this face so that's that's my point but i applaud each of you guys for volunteering your time mike you've been a strong advocate for us and we appreciate you but we need more there's a lot of folks that are hanging around the fringes that you know we need you to come inside do be a part of something to make this agenda strong i had a member just reach out to me on text and i'm going to reach you what he said what if we published a scorecard for lenders that highlight good partnership and showcase it at NARS and in the marketplace that's a good first step if you're going to be a true partner let's put let's put them let's put your money where you're about this let's back us up show that you're a partner of ours and not just you know patting us on the back and that out of way you picked up 50 cars this week i am concerned about where this industry is going because we accept anything and the more we accept the more we continue to get what we get so the guys on this board Richard mike thank you guys for for being a part of this conversation it only can continue but we need everybody from every 10 in this forum yeah thank you von it's so it's an honor to be a RA member and amongst Jeremy Marcus Amy yourself mike it's a true honor and you know just recently i've gotten involved with a RA and started contributing but i want to thank you for the invitation and i would encourage more people to get involved and instead of sitting back on the bench and talking about what's not happening you got to get off the bench and make it happen come join us come join the fight so thank you come join us we got really cold blue shirts we look handsome come get a shirt Amy looks beautiful in her blue shirt Jay i'd also want to thank you and all you're following for allowing us to come on tonight talk to everybody hopefully open the light a little bit for the transport community hopefully some of the lending community was out there they understand a little bit more as we talk through the different challenges that we have so i want to thank you for giving us the platform and allowing us to come on to your show and do this thanks Jay and Dave too sorry Dave i didn't need to leave you out Dave that's all good man y'all um i took a lot of notes i had marked my courtesy mute on as well and um i want to thank you all so much um i through the years i've learned a lot more now i'm an advocate rather than a criticizer that's what i started as and it's a process it's education it's learning when you realize you have something in common with someone that you just you know thought was an adversary and now you realize you're on the same side it's a real eye-opener so i'm glad to be part of that process so thank you for taking your personal time to help me continue the education that we all know is important thank you thank you Jay it sounds like this is a show so that's it that's a wrap it's a wrap it's a wrap all right and you all can hear me okay that's fine okay again all right thank you all so much Vaughn Richard Marcus Mike Jeremy Dave and Amy thank you very much i just want to say the live chat was happening we had mega views tonight this is a really big show there's a lot of interest and so i want to thank everybody in the live chat and on camera off camera behind camera etc clearly people are passionate about this so thank you all so much for being a part of it making this happen i'll look forward to the next one thank you thank you thank you thank you breaking news we're going to be talking more about this topic at use car week yes so that's exciting yes the industry is listening thank you guys all right good night thanks everyone thanks good night bye-bye and that's a cut okay you know um i like being courteous with the microphone but i hate it when i forget to turn that back on bugs me you know i got it's got to be a hundred percent jay lots of live chat comments tonight actually i think that this show statistically is probably one of the biggest shows i've done this year um hopefully not the biggest meaning i like to make big shows i have made so many shows you think by now i would know when my audio is on or off i got the screens over here and the live chat and the whatnot thank you so much thank you murphy out of transport services thank you super flow systems thank you so much to the american recovery association thank you for being in the live chat thank you rene for helping make the use car week we're back year two of two it's going to be so exciting you just found out earlier today so um uh we'll see you there this is an important topic you've got nars you've got auto hauler associations you've got a ti there's many media outlets there's a lot happening on linkedin you know i want you to let me know how i can help in the youtube comments please like please share please say something thank you for all the live chat comments please follow ati auto business live on youtube live on linkedin twice a week and i tell you i know there's something different about this channel i said in the intro ati takes a lot of shots and um yeah there you know what um there i think there's plenty of media on the side that's making a lot of money there is not much media on the side with the problems ati is on that side were the underdog channel that is our purpose is to help the underdog and automotive get the message out if you're such an underdog let me know send me an email auto transport intel at gmail.com ati home of the underdogs here comes the car hauler that seems appropriate good night everybody thank you