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Welcome to a Sober Girl's Guide podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on sobriety and recovery. I'm your host and sober girl, Jessica Jibot. Inspired by my own sobriety and wellness journey, I want to spread the wealth of knowledge. Tune in each week for uncensored conversations about mental health, self-development, wellness and spirituality and how they influence each guest's unique recovery journey. My goal is to educate and inspire and to let you know you are not alone on your recovery journey. Thanks so much for tuning in to a Sober Girl's Guide podcast. Let's go! Hello, hello and welcome to episode 275 of a Sober Girl's Guide podcast. Are you codependent? Chances are if you have or had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, the answer is yes. Now before you come for me, just hear me out. Carla Romo is a dating and relationship coach and also a recovered codependent. On this episode, you will learn how to overcome codependency, how to tell if you are in a toxic relationship, and what to do if you are. We talk about why and how codependency forms and how it dictates the partners and relationships we choose. This was such a fantastic and just absolutely fascinating conversation. Let's get into it. Carla, I am so, so glad you're here. I feel like this is like a epic twist in the universe and we're meant to talk and you are recommended to me and I just love all your content, everything you talk about relationship wise, codependency, toxic, toxic relationships, we're going to get into all of that good stuff. I think we're new. We are new, right? Yes, I'm super excited. Thank you for having me on. Yeah. First off, we're going to talk about toxic relationships and codependency and all that good stuff. When we were talking before, you mentioned that you were a recovering codependent. Yes. Can you break down what that looks like, what is even codependency? I think we hear all these key words, these trending words. Give us some insight. Give us your knowledge, girl. All right. When I was writing my book, Contagious Love, which is break free from codependency for damn good, I was researching the word codependency because that is important when you're writing a book on codependency. There is no official definition of codependency, but what I gathered is that it is rooted in slow self-esteem. It is the dependence upon others, so like needing others to be happy or sober or doing what you need them to do so that you feel okay with yourself. Okay. Your focus is completely on other people because you don't feel good enough. No, it is the core beliefs that everybody has, but not everyone's aware of I'm not worthy, I'm not special, I'm not lovable, I'm not enough, like all of those, like I'm not right. And then as a codependent, what you do is you use other people to validate your existence. So you're like outsourcing. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So for me, you know, I like to say that I broke free from codependency in 2015. So I have been in relationships since then, but none of them have been codependent. So what I was doing before when I was codependent is I was looking to fix people. I loved a good project, right? Like get in there and like get somebody who's fucked up and then all of a sudden, okay, cool, I can, I can, you know, fix them. I'll be the like the savior, right? And like that is very important. I'm a cropper. Yeah, exactly. Or, you know, I can get somebody to stop drinking because then that'll show that I'm lovable. Like if I can do this for them, then like they'll see how amazing I am. And then therefore it'll deem that like I am lovable. So it's always like I was trying to like earn people's like worth. I also felt so lonely and like I wanted to, you know, find somebody to like take care of my loneliness, right? So like I would stay in relationships, even though they weren't right, just because I was afraid of being alone, right, like that would show that like, see, you aren't worthy or you aren't lovable. So it would be this like cycle over and over again. And I like to say that my codependency really rooted in childhood. A lot of people who are codependent, that tends to happen. And I had an abusive father. He left when I was really little and all right there, I just didn't feel enough. I didn't feel worthy. And so I was always speaking that validation and always trying to fix other people because I felt broken inside. And it wasn't until 2015 where I like hit my bottom. When I was in this like use of relationship, it was really unhealthy at the time. And I just saw two paths in front of me. And it was like, okay, you can either continue this path, which now you're aware of the behaviors of being with these unavailable people, or you can choose the path of self love, taking care of yourself, learning what boundaries are, red flags, communication, right? Like all of those things. And so I ended that relationship. And as I like to say, I begun the most important relationship, which is the relationship with myself. Oof. That seems so scary. And I think you nailed it when you were explaining like the aspect of being alone. And what that means, yes. And I think a lot of us take it on as like personally, like I'm alone because I personally suck at this, or I'm not 100% I'm not worth being with someone who will love me fully or see me fully. Well, I felt fucked up for my childhood and past. So I thought I need to find equally as fucked up. And then I could help fix them because I knew what was best. All for like codependency is like, hmm, troll in disguise. And it's not controlling in like a narcissistic way. That's also a buzzword that people talk about all the time, right? Or like, in a beautiful way, right? Yeah. It's that I need you to be okay so that like, I'm okay. So you become manipulative, like I said, codependent, you're not manipulative in a narcissistic way. I just have to always put that preface out there because people get triggered by that word. You know, recognizing your codependent is recognizing, oh, I have controlling or manipulative behaviors that were rooted in low self esteem. So it's like, you know, finding ways to like make yourself look good, right? In front of everybody else because it's like, yeah, like I'm so fucked up behind the walls and that I need everybody else to see me as being perfect. So like a lot of codependents are like high functioning. They got it together. They look really good. They're not like falling apart, right? Inside, you're like, oh my God, like holding on, right? But like the external, you're trying to create this like facade that people see you as like, wow, you're like, perfect, you've got it together. You have it all. And what your inside is exactly the opposite of that. Yeah, you're just like crumbling inside. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I think Carly, it's also important to acknowledge that like, we don't seek out to become toxic or people don't like wake up and be like, you know what, I'm going to ruin Carly's life today, you know? Yes. Right. Or like I'm going to manipulate or in control of this situation, you know, because that's what I feel like doing on a Monday. Absolutely. Yes. And I think that that is like we're human, right? I always tell clients this because I coach a lot of clients for dating and relationships. And I always say everybody, especially my dating clients, right, who have been in like ended relationships or unhealthy or abusive relationships in the past. And they're trying to date again and they're nervous. Like, do I trust myself? Is my picker right? Like, am I going to be able to do this again? And I always say everybody has something, all right. And I like to use the baggage analogy. It's like, do you want somebody who has like an overhead, like, you know, bag, they can just like open the overhead bin, put the bag in there and shut it? Or do you want somebody who just like brought two suitcases that are like, you're getting charged for like, I don't know, the 50 pound, like extra charge, right? And that's what you have to decide. Like, everybody's got baggage is just how much shit do you want to carry on the plane with you? Yeah. And why do you want to carry all that shit? If you choose a ladder. Yes. Exactly. Why? What? What do you got going on there, girl? Oh my gosh. Yeah. I want to back it up and talk about your personal, like what a toxic relationship looks like or feels like, if you could explain kind of like, maybe your scenario, give us some examples of what you experience and put yourself in. Yes. So for me, the way I define toxic is that it's triggering parts of me that were unhealthy or harming toward me. Okay. So picking a partner who, you know, that relationship that I talked about in 2015, right? Like, right. I knew in my gut that there are red flags. I knew in my gut the whole time that it wasn't right. And I like to use this analogy of painting red flags green because you can get, right? Like you start to go into this relationship and you're like, oh, this doesn't feel right. Oh, something's off. Oh, is he talking to other girls? Like, also why he's talking to me? No, no, it's fine. It's fine. Right? Like, you know, and you make all these excuses. And then all of a sudden the next thing you know, like the red flag just gets bigger and bigger and bigger, which is why I always say that you can't like turn the red flag green because at some point that little flag that's red is just going to get massive. And it will probably be the reason either one, you're in a dysfunctional relationship or two, you leave a relationship because of the dysfunction of it. Right. And so it's, it's harmful behavior of recognizing like, okay, for me not trusting myself. That was a huge one. I mean, I can tell you right now, I didn't trust myself. Like I, I let my codependency was so loud, I was just the fear of being alone or not being enough or not being lovable that I was willing to look past like disrespect. I was willing to like be put down by somebody else in a relationship. You know, like that's so far to continue to keep showing up. And I'm not blaming myself. Like I'm not looking at myself as like, okay, if you're in an abusive relationship, like that's your fault. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. Yeah. It was once I recognized, oh shit. I'm this is like my therapist who was like, this sounds abusive. It was like, oh my God, I had no idea. I didn't realize that. So okay. Now what choices do I have, like what, what can I do for myself so that I'm not falling into this like toxic behavior? Right. But also like, okay, even when you realize the patterns, actually making this up, like taking action to leave is so freaking hard. Right? Yeah. Even as society, like, you know, our clocks ticking, like you ain't getting any younger. Like, why are we on this timeline where we have to like lock someone in, lock the person in? I can't stand the timeline. Like, right? It's so stressful. Yeah. I cannot stand the, and then that's society because like you could love and you can grow at any stage. And I know this. I've literally coached clients well in their 70s who are like, doing relationships, changing the way that they're dating, right? Like you can change and grow at any time. There is no time. Yeah. It doesn't really exist. And like this idea of like you need to like, you know, find your person otherwise, like you're being left behind, like people get more things happen, like, yeah, but I mean, I will say this that when you're in a toxic relationship, you might not even be aware of it or you might have passed trauma and things that like really, you know, stem from childhood. And that was a lot of my issues. Right. And it's, it's working through that, but it's looking at life as a journey. So I like I call myself love for me because there's no destination, like, right, you know, and I look at like recovery and codependency is something it's like a daily thing I have to go back to. Like, I have to take care of myself and my self esteem, like it's not like a, oh, boom, I get fixed. And I think that that's some, oh, one, like we want this guarantee in life that like, oh, we do this or we work on ourselves, like boom, we're fixed. But of course we want to guarantee, look at, look at the world around us, look at just like life in general, nothing is guaranteed. And I think, you know, looking for whether it be like supplements, pills, programs, you know, we're looking for like this concrete conclusion. Yes. When is this going to end? When am I going to start living my best life? When am I going to start stepping into myself? Yeah. And I think there's something really empowering and at least it was for me in my codependency journey of recognizing one, there's no guarantees, like there's zero guarantees. And that too, I have to do this for myself. So if I want to show up, if I want to take care of myself, like this is what I need to do for me. I wasn't changing for anybody else, like this choice to change and to make these, you know, changes in my life and live differently were because I hit my bottom and I don't. And I think there's multiple bottoms to be hit in life. Like people go through like some downs of this. But I do think, you know, it's a commitment to yourself. Like that's really what this is. And it's to show up imperfectly, like every day. And that can be hard because a lot of codependents are perfectionists, like what to like be perfect. We need to be perfect, right? And like it's hard with, you know, humility that you're not perfect. Okay, you know, you keep on describing codependents and like reluctantly, I'm like checking all these frickin boxes, like, you know, this what happens is this would like why I have this podcast to have people analyze me and be like, Oh, shit, I am a good man. You're another box. Yeah. Well, I actually, I like to say that a lot of people who are sober or like identify as an addict or an alcoholic actually are codependent as well. And that's like family dynamics because you learn behavior because probably one of your parents or grandparents or sister or aunt or cousin also is sober or might, you know, need to be looking in the direction of sobriety. But that's, you know, all that behavior is really also like it's a family dynamic with codependency. Oh, totally. And I can see, okay, fine, I'm just going to identify as a codependent. You've forced my hand, but I can see where like even in your experience and what you shared, that never feeling enough, like never getting that kind of like love and attention. And that like, I think that's why I drank. Yeah. Like that's why, you know, because I had these kind of like holes that needed to be filled. And if it wasn't with relationships, you know what, if I couldn't get my hand on a relationship, what was the next best thing drinking, right? So it makes total sense. Yes. You know, and we're all just trying to like self soothe and we're kind of like reaching for whatever, like some were reaching for the lowest hanging fruit, right, which is not the hell fans. That's okay. Wait, you're here. You're here. That's the fucking matters, right? Like you're here. Like doing it, you know, I also want to say this too is there are a lot of people who are sober or still drinking that are very codependent, so then your dynamic is codependent. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's 2024. We are all stressed out. The worst thing we can do is keep all this stress bottled up. Our bodies and minds turn into a pressure cooker, and that is not good for anyone. In my seven years of sobriety, I learned that I need to let it out. 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That's BetterHelp.com/ASGG today to get 10% off your first month, that's BetterHELP.com/ASGG. A lot of times, if you have a partner who was begging you to get sober or wanting your drinks or getting upset with your drinking or saying, "I'm going to leave you, don't stop drinking." I see a lot of people want or expect there's an expectation there, if I get sober, my partner should get sober too out of respect. I don't agree with that because you all are two different people. I agree. I 100% agree with that. I think anybody's journey, whether it's sobriety, codependency is independent of yourself. I always talk to clients who are codependent, "Your partner's not going to get sober for you." That doesn't exist. If they try to get sober for you, that's not a healthy dynamic. Talk about toxicity, right? - Talk about resentment. - Oh, good. There you go. - Yeah. - 100%. I always stress and say that they will get sober because they want to, because they hit their bottom, because it's what the choice that they need and they want for themselves. There might have been an incident that you were there and had them hit their bottom and recognize it. - We had some influence. - Absolutely. - Look at all these positives. But they're not going to stay sober or get sober because of you. And that's thickness and codependency, where it's like a lot of times as well, when somebody gets sober, the codependency is like, "Oh, I'm good now." No, no, no, no. You need to do your work. You don't have so much work to do because your behavior is still the same. It's still the same. You're still holding on to control, resentment, like all of those things, and the ownership really needs to be put on that person. - Man. - So how do we start this work? How do we, even if we're listening to this like myself and you're like, "Wow, Carla, you're going to paint in my picture there." How do we then kind of change these patterns or behaviors? Would you say they're patterns or how would you describe codependency? - Oh, yeah. I mean, it's patterns. It's behaviors. It sort of feels like it's part of us, really. You feel like you're kind of like it's the only way you've learned to operate or that feels safe to operate in. So I'm really big on not ripping the band-aid off at all. I think the most important thing when you are codependent is to literally, instead of pointing your finger at your partner or whoever else in your family or friends, is to point the finger back at yourself, focusing on yourself because you are collecting your own self-care, your own needs, you're so focused on this other person, whatever it is, and you can be codependent on somebody who isn't just drinking and things like that, but in this context, that's what I'm going to speak to. And so if you are constantly pointing your finger, you've neglected yourself. And so you don't even know who you are because your existence has been around this, "I need them to be okay so that I'm okay." That's not healthy, right? And that's where things can become toxic is that cycle, but you say, "Okay, what are my needs?" I can guarantee anybody who's codependent would be like, "Oh, or my needs." I don't think I've ever asked myself that before. What even are needs? So- No, legit. Yeah. Exactly. I find this a lot with our sober moms, too, because they're kind of like coming out of this like, "Shall, they're like, 'Wait.'" I love how scents have the power to evoke memories and transport you back in time. Like instead of sitting at your desk, you are whisked back to laying on the beach during your favorite vacation. Ocea's Andaria algae body oil smells like a vacation in a bottle. With all natural uplifting notes of mango, mandarin, grapefruit, lime, and cypress, not only does it smell incredible, but this body oil is clinically proven to instantly improve skin elasticity and deeply moisturize, leaving skin silky and soft. It's giving post-vacation glow like you just returned from a tropical getaway. And right now, you can get 10% off your first order with our code ASGG@OceaMalibu.com. My skin has never looked better. Ocea's Andaria algae body oil gives me the instant-firming hydration and a full body glow I've been looking for. And let's be honest, I love getting premium skin care products at such an incredible value. Get healthy glowing skin for summer with clean, vegan skin and body care from Ocea. Get 10% off your first order sight-wide with code ASGG@OceaMalibu.com. You'll get free samples with every order and free shipping on orders over $60. Add to oceaMalibu.com and use code ASGG for 10% off. I am a person too. Yes. I get to say, I get to say, I'm in a normal situation. Yep, exactly. And so looking at like, how am I taking care of myself? And I'm not talking, okay, like this is another buzzword, self-care. It's like, oh, like, massages and like, get your nails done. And like, yeah, I freaking love getting massages and getting my nails done. But when I talk about care, I'm talking about like our basics, like, how are you eating all your meals? Are you getting a good night's sleep? Are you making doctor's appointments? Are you getting out and like walks and exercising? How much are you working, right? And then you can start to look at and like go even deeper here of like, what boundaries do you have? That's another, you know, place to start to of like, are you letting people walk all over you? Do you keep saying yes to people because you're a people pleaser and you're afraid you're going to let someone down or they're going to see you differently? So you just say yes to everything and it's like, why don't you practice saying no for the first time and just no, like no is a complete sentence. You don't have to like keep going into it. You can just say no. And so really starting with the basics, yeah, that is going to feel difficult. Like those are difficult things to really look at and so easy to like, keep your focus back on someone else. And I always say, if you're focusing on someone else and their behavior, like you're slipping back into your codependency, whereas, okay, what do I need? I need to focus on myself. It just seems so much fun to look at someone else though. Yeah, exactly, it's like this like cute little Sims like video game that like, you can just move the places and say the things because then you never have to look at your own behavior, right? It feels great because you're like, okay, I can see your thoughts up and talk about other people, right? And like what they need to be doing with their lives, right? Because it's like that like idea of like, oh, I know what's best, and it's like, right? Do you really know what's best? Like for other people? Because like what's best for yourself? Like, and I don't know if we, you know, I always look at ourselves as like, there's no right or wrong. Like, we don't always know what's like, we know what's best in that moment and how to show up for ourselves and trust, but we don't like, we can't see into the future. Like we don't have like control over everybody or anything. No. Unfortunately, it's kind of like, it's like going to a wedding and being, and like criticizing like the wedding. Like everyone's wedding is like cringy or tacky when it's not yours. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like, how about a wedding once where somebody was doing that? Yes. So it's like, and then like when it comes to your wedding, you're like, oh, well, this makes sense. Right. Okay. I got my own cringe going on. Right on. 100%. Yeah. I mean, it's always so much fun and easier to like pick everyone else apart. Yeah. That's just the nature of the buzz. Yeah. I always also like to say too, it's projection. So you notice that you're like really annoyed by someone and they're just bothering you so much. Yeah. It's like, oh, that's an opportunity to kind of look at like, what is it about them that's bothering you? Because there's probably something deeper going on within yourself, right? Maybe there's a similar thing you've done before that's bothering you or, you know, it's triggering something within you that it's an opportunity to work on, right? Yes. I'm not always fun to look at either. Oh, yeah. The old mirror. Carla, you mentioned that like you hit your bottom when you were like in your codependency. Could you explain what that looked like or what that felt like? Yeah. I mean, it was awful. And I think that this is what is, you know, it's so much of the people who are listening like, oh, it's so much easier said than done. Yeah. I mean, it's really difficult. Yeah. I have to. Yeah. I struggled with like this back and forth for a little bit. Like I had been going to therapy and I was doing like EMDR before EMDR was cool. Yeah. Like this was like a wild fact. And I was like working through like past trauma and all this type of stuff. And I entered this relationship and, you know, it's like my gut knew it wasn't right. And I was on this journey of like working on myself and going to therapy and healing, right? And I proposed this relationship. And so for myself, it almost kind of felt like it was this like not like a test to myself, but sort of this last like, am I sure I really want to change? Like do I really want, you know, and I, and I feel like they first gave me and I have no regrets in life. Like I feel like I'm exactly where I am for like everything I've gone through and I would go through it all again. And so I feel like the universe gave me that to kind of like be like, hey, I'm here. Like if you want to like hop on and like go along, you know, life with me, like we'll do it together. And if you don't, like I'm still here whenever you need me. So I, for me at the time, it was this, I felt really confused, you know, I was going back and forth and I tried to end this relationship and then, you know, was convinced not to and that you work on it, so I was like, okay, like all right, I'll stay and sing all the right things. Yes. Yes. Not doing the right things. So, and then, and I, you know, like try it out, but I wasn't sure. So I would hide things from other people because I was embarrassed, right? I felt shame. Like there's something wrong with me and like, you know, he's a reflection of me, like all of that stuff, that icky stuff and like I was actually, I went on a solo trip. And I was like in Ireland and just like standing in the Wicklow forest and had this like profound spiritual moment, like I had never felt very spiritual prior. And in this moment, like I just like, it was like a voice that was like, it's going to be okay. Like you're going to be all right. And then that actually gave me the strength to move forward with it. And it was on that trip, like he wasn't calling me much. I noticed it was at the time when an Instagram, you could see that people were liking other people's photos. Do you remember what the Instagram is? Yes. So he had this like, that t-shirt photo of a girl that he knew and I had this weird gut feeling. I was like, something isn't right here. And so I get back from the trip and I saw him, knew I was like, something's not right. And then I like, I was hanging out with a girlfriend and I was like, I think I had asked something about like, how do you ever cheated or like, you know, whatever. And she was like, she just looked down and I was like, I was like, okay. And sure enough, she confirmed that like he had been lying to me and all these things. And it was just in that moment where it was like, I had enough space to kind of like be with myself. I had this like really profound spiritual moment. So I felt connected with myself and like this like feeling of like peace. I don't know how to describe it. And so yeah. And then I ended it from there and that's a little bit of climb because he gaslit me into thinking that I was crazy when I first tried to end it. And then the next day, this is my therapist was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, like your, this sounds like abuse, like this, no, no, no, like you are sure that you don't be with him. I'm like, yeah, she's like, then go end it. So I went then the next thing ended it. But you know, for myself at the time, it was this like, I don't know how to describe it. Like I just just was spiritual for me. It really was. And afterward, even I kind of was like, oh, I don't know, like I need to spend some time with myself and I don't know if I should date or like, I don't want to date. You know, it was, it was like navigating this new space that I knew I needed to be in, but like was confusing as hell. Like I didn't know what to do. And then from there, I started to like really focus on myself. Like I said, like I started taking care of myself and recognize like, what are my needs? Like, like what, what are my deal breakers now in relationships? Like what won't I stand for? And what does that, like this new growth and this new relationship with myself, I've never had before. So that was really like that experience of my body. That's, I mean, that's amazing. I totally know what you mean. It's it's spiritual. It's like you can't even explain it. It's not logical. Yes. It just happens. It almost like Jesus takes the wheel for lack of better words. I was not, I was not in control. Like I, it was, yeah, it's just, I can't describe the feeling. But there was a force that's like greater than me. That's all I know. And that like, yeah, I like latched on to and it felt like home for the first time. Oh, that's so comforting. That's so nice to know that like, there is something greater and bigger than us out there. Yeah. You know, it's like, if we're, if we're looking for comfort, damn, we can lean into that. Yes. I'm trying to control everything. And they got it for myself. Yeah. I know. Yeah, me too. 100%. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And I think like, I, you know, I wasn't religious and I wasn't even spiritual, but it was just this like thing that I was like, oh, okay. And like, not needing to control or hold on to things like just being able to let go and just be. Hmm. I love that. Carla, how did it change your perspective on dating? Like after that, did you take a break? Was there like, okay, I got to take like a year off. Like, what was the kind of protocol for that? So somebody had suggested like, why don't you take some time off? And I briefly, and I talk about this in my book, like I had met somebody briefly. And I was like, it didn't, it didn't feel right. Like, okay. And so I just, I was like, you know what, like, and I told this person, I was very clear with them. Like, look, like I'm not in a place, I'm not emotionally available. Like, you know, and for me, it was like, cool, I could, you know, keep sleeping with somebody. But like, what, like, I need to focus on myself. Like it's not, right? Like, to me, there was not an emotional component to move it forward where I was available. So I gave myself some time to just reflect a couple of months and things like that. And then I had actually gotten into a relationship with somebody at the time, actually, he was sober. And, and so, you know, I was in that relationship and it ended up not working out. And so I actually always say that like every relationship I've had is like a time period of like dating is this like catalyst for me to continue to grow in my journey. So I look at it as like, I'm always evolving. And so is my dating life, right? And that relationship, I actually waited six months, like, didn't do anything. Like date, nothing. Like, didn't even another guy, right? Like, I was like, okay, I'm just going to focus on me. And in that six months, I once again had another like spiritual moment and that was to start my business, like my coaching business and get certified to be a coach. And I was like, you know what? Like at the time, I had been working in television and I was like casting different TV shows and things like that. And it just was not fulfilling. And I thought, God, other people are going through this shit. Like other people are struggling in dating and relationships and codependency and I feel like I went through this stuff to be able to help others, right, and like guide them in their journey. Totally. And so I just was like, you know what, I'm going to do it. And so in that time period, like I was focused on myself, like I wasn't codependent. I wasn't needing that validation for dating of, you know, okay, I need to date, like replace this person to show I'm worthy or I'm, you know, lovable or whatever those thoughts are. And so, you know, even to like, like the relationship after that, you know, I was engaged in 2022. And at the time, like there weren't red flags in the relationship and all of a sudden red flags started to pop up, like out of nowhere and it happened very quickly. And what I believe to be an affair and some other things that were going on to that were red flags that I was concerned about. And like I ended it and I didn't and it wasn't even a question. It wasn't like my codependency was not in the front seat. Like I was and trusting myself because I thought, God, this could be toxic. Like this is really a choice and a promise I made to myself that I wouldn't put myself in these positions anymore or situations. And so I ended that relationship and then I didn't date for a while. I focused on myself and I moved cities, I bought a condo, I traveled the world. I just have like, I'm going to do this, you know, and eventually when I was ready to date again, I met my now partner who was fucking awesome. And I have to say, it's like the best relationship I've ever been in. So thank God, right? Like all those things. That's amazing. Like, everything I've gone through, right? Like, and what that looks like and having somebody who's emotionally available and who, you know, can show up and can talk about things in a healthy way, right? That's not dysfunctional and to share feelings, like all of those things, right? And that's important for me now in my journey of codependency, right? Like, yeah, making a partner who can show up in a very emotionally mature way. Totally. I mean, those standards have to be there. Those are just non-negotiables at this point. Exactly. Yeah. So like, where did you find this man? I think everyone wants to know, uh, where did you find this man of this guy hiding? We hide it on hinge. And I had, okay. No way. I had a system of how I was going to date. So like- Okay. Tell me the system. I'm dating coach, right? So like, I, I hope my system, but like, my clients had been using it for years. So I was like, I'm going to use it, um, and it worked. So what I would do is I would only, because I'm at a point where like, I was only looking for somebody who was serious about a relationship, who wanted to get married, wanted to have kids. All right. Oh my God. Those were the people I was dating. But I would look on the app and I'd be like, okay, like if they said like, open to short or long term, I'd be like, nope, they have to just be long term or life partner. And then when they would say like, Hey, let's grab coffee sometime or like, let's, you know, whatever, do something. I would say, okay, great. Just curious. What are you looking for since everyone's on the apps for different reasons? Sure. And ask that question and if they couldn't answer that and make it seem healthy and like, you know, normal, then I would just be like, okay, like it looks like we're on two different pages. Like, wish you the best. Yeah. If they answered it of like, yeah, I'm like looking for something serious. I'm at this point in my life and like eventually would like to have kids. I'm like, great. Let's meet up. So it's like, bottom line is like I was only going out with people who could like communicate that upfront before I even met them. And then on the date, I would bring it up casually didn't need to be like a huge conversation, but just, Hey, I know you mentioned a little bit about what you were looking for. And then they would talk about it and I would listen, like, and I would think about myself, like, am I feeling comfortable and what they're doing? Do I feel anxious? Do I have a spark? That's dangerous. Like that, like, Oh, man, like, all right, like there's something about them that's just like that, like not a crush, not the like, Oh, we're connecting and vibing and I'm really excited, but that like, ooh, I need to slow down because the spark might not actually be very healthy and it might be representing us a little bit. So I would, you know, like you're almost getting high, like you're like, Oh, that's it. Exactly. Yeah. Six. Yeah. Yeah. And so I would kind of evaluate that. And you know, I went on a lot of dates. I did. I was very particular about what I was looking for, I had deal breakers, you know, things that were important to me that they had to like, you know, have like certain conversations and if they couldn't have these conversations, like that was a big deal to me. So that was my process from the dating apps. And that's like, that's really like my clients use it. I used it. It works. Yeah. It's not perfect. Right. But like it works for the most part. I mean, you have to get out there. Do you think dating is somewhat of a numbers game? No. Okay. No, no. Oh, shit. Okay. Tell me more. It's about quality versus quantity. You want to go on quality dates. Like I could go out a bunch of guys on Hinge, right? And just on the dates and maybe three out of 10 of them are the guys that I would have vetted and been like, Hey, what are you looking for? Right. And it's like, right? Okay. The bunch of guys who aren't. So if you want to go on a bunch of dates with guys who are serious about a relationship and are asked, you know, you're asking those questions and stuff, go for it because that's like quality, right? Like you want to have the quality there versus if it's a numbers game, you're kind of going in directionless. Like you're kind of just throwing yourself like, now I do believe that like I have some clients who just need the practice of dating. And so they go on dates with people and they try it out and they get their feet wet. And that's fine. But if you're really looking for a specific person, it's all about the quality. Yeah. And that comes through with the vetting with the questions before you even meet. Yep. Like do the groundwork. Yep. Exactly. Oh, gosh. Yes. Okay. I get it. I change, I change, yeah, I changed my opinion. My opinion has grown on numbers. There you go. I see it. I'm growing and evolving right before. Very nice. There we go. I like it. Carla, where can we find you on the world wide web? Yes. You can find me on Instagram or TikTok at I am Carla Romo or if you're interested in working with me, you can go to my website, which is Carla Romo.com. And if you're on the apps and you're having trouble navigating it, I do have a dating app guide called the ultimate dating app guide. It is swipe match spark. And it's literally what I used even more in depth from what I gave you to what I use for my clients that have success. Oh my gosh. And where can we get that? That is awesome. My website. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Get in quick. I love it. Carla, thank you so much for your time, your experience, your knowledge has been so much fun and you've really just diagnosed me as a codependent. And now I'm going to go do some work on it. How awesome is Carla? It was so great and so fun to talk to her about a pretty serious topic. Now one last note before you go, it is important to remember that everyone's experience changing their relationship with alcohol is different, right? We're not codependent. We're all different. We have different needs, different wants. However, one thing that remains consistent is the need for support. Head to assobergirlsguide.com now. We have tips and tricks at any stage of your booze-free journey. The Sober Girls Social Club is a great place for support and accountability. For only $17 a month, you will have the support from our certified coaches and like-minded women to help you overcome the challenges and say, "Adios to alcohol once and for all." Head to assobergirlsguide.com now. Thank you so much for listening. Please make sure to rate, subscribe, and leave your feedback about the podcast and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @assobergirlsguide. Thank you so much for listening and have a great day. 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