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The Ladder of Divine Ascent - Chapter XXVIII, Part II

There are some things that cannot be learned from books – prayer most of all! However, St. John, as so many of the Saints speaks to us from long experience as one who truly has seen Christ, knows Christ and has conversed with him deeply. Whatever might be lacking in his thought it still stokes the fire of desire within any heart that longs for God.  The desert fathers understood that God looks upon us as his sons and daughters his children, and the simplest word or groan from the heart is sufficient to express our need and love. Above all, we are to have gratitude and a spirit of compunction. With these then we approach the Lord with the intentions of our hearts.  We should not fear our own weakness or the multiplicity of our thoughts that seem to overwhelm us. St. John reminds us that He who “sets the bounds to the sea of the mind will visit us, and during our prayer will say to the waves thus far shall you come and no further.”  Prayer should be the simplest of things, but also what we hold to be most precious. We should come to see it as necessary as breathing but even more essential. The fathers tell us that we are to become prayer - our life is to be a sacrifice of praise. We are to be the very reflection of Christ. The kingdom is now, heaven is now and dwells within us. May our foolish hearts take hold of the gift that the Beloved offers us so freely.

Text of chat during the group: 00:01:29 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 234, # 1.5   00:05:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: We were half way thru #1.   00:05:53 Gregory Chura: Which step?   00:06:03 Gregory Chura: Thank you!   00:39:40 Anthony: So how to ignore the rational and irrational mind when praying? Just pray and eventually it happens?  Because my mind gets in the way.     00:40:42 susan: Jesus [rayer   00:45:37 David: Sometimes something tactile like a chotki, rosary or stone ( have one that fits my hand from a retreat center) can help one become grounded. Others a icon or image can help set the mind and still others a candle or breathing technique can quickly return us to a calm state.   00:51:37 Wayne: Doing some active physical activity can settle the mind down before prayer.   01:03:05 Jeff O.: proverbs 24   01:03:22 Jeff O.: verse 16   01:03:24 Nypaver Clan: Verse 16   01:14:56 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!   01:14:59 Jeff O.: Thank you!   01:15:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂   01:15:05 David: Thanks Father!   01:15:06 Gregory Chura: Thank you, Father!   01:15:11 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father!

Duration:
1h 2m
Broadcast on:
14 Aug 2024
Audio Format:
mp3

There are some things that cannot be learned from books – prayer most of all! However, St. John, as so many of the Saints speaks to us from long experience as one who truly has seen Christ, knows Christ and has conversed with him deeply. Whatever might be lacking in his thought it still stokes the fire of desire within any heart that longs for God. 

The desert fathers understood that God looks upon us as his sons and daughters his children, and the simplest word or groan from the heart is sufficient to express our need and love. Above all, we are to have gratitude and a spirit of compunction. With these then we approach the Lord with the intentions of our hearts. 

We should not fear our own weakness or the multiplicity of our thoughts that seem to overwhelm us. St. John reminds us that He who “sets the bounds to the sea of the mind will visit us, and during our prayer will say to the waves thus far shall you come and no further.” 

Prayer should be the simplest of things, but also what we hold to be most precious. We should come to see it as necessary as breathing but even more essential. The fathers tell us that we are to become prayer - our life is to be a sacrifice of praise. We are to be the very reflection of Christ. The kingdom is now, heaven is now and dwells within us. May our foolish hearts take hold of the gift that the Beloved offers us so freely.

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Text of chat during the group:

00:01:29 Bob Cihak, AZ: p. 234, # 1.5   00:05:18 Bob Cihak, AZ: We were half way thru #1.   00:05:53 Gregory Chura: Which step?   00:06:03 Gregory Chura: Thank you!   00:39:40 Anthony: So how to ignore the rational and irrational mind when praying? Just pray and eventually it happens?  Because my mind gets in the way.     00:40:42 susan: Jesus [rayer   00:45:37 David: Sometimes something tactile like a chotki, rosary or stone ( have one that fits my hand from a retreat center) can help one become grounded. Others a icon or image can help set the mind and still others a candle or breathing technique can quickly return us to a calm state.   00:51:37 Wayne: Doing some active physical activity can settle the mind down before prayer.   01:03:05 Jeff O.: proverbs 24   01:03:22 Jeff O.: verse 16   01:03:24 Nypaver Clan: Verse 16   01:14:56 Andrew Adams: Thank you, Father!   01:14:59 Jeff O.: Thank you!   01:15:02 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂   01:15:05 David: Thanks Father!   01:15:06 Gregory Chura: Thank you, Father!   01:15:11 Kevin Burke: Thank you Father!

 

[music] What you are about to listen to is a podcast produced by Philiplea Ministries. Philiplea Ministries is offered to all free of charge. However, there are real and immediate needs associated with it. If you are a regular listener or enjoy any of the content produced by Philiplea Ministries, we humbly ask that you consider becoming a contributor. You can learn more about our funding needs at www.philicaleaMinistries.org. Please note that Philiplea Ministries is not a 401(c)(3) nonprofit organization and that contributions are not tax deductible. Supporting Philiplea Ministries is just like supporting your other favorite podcasters and content creators and all proceeds pay the production bills, make it possible for us to pay our content manager and provide a living stipend for Father David. God bless you and enjoy the podcast. [music] Glory to Jesus Christ, glory forever. Welcome back everybody to our study of the ladder of divine ascent. And we are getting fairly close to the end, as you know, and we are currently on the step on prayer, step number 28, and we just started last week. And so we are still within the first paragraph on page 234. We have been slowly going through Saint John Klamikus' definition of prayer. And just taking a look at how he describes it in preparation for the rest of the step. And we are about midway through that first paragraph on 234, where he describes it as the treasure of Hezekus. So for the person who's embraced the life of solitude and deep silence, and for whom prayer is a source of nourishment and life itself, that it would be the pearl of great price, the treasure that is worth more than all things. And so this is what they would treasure, hold, be precious, protect, at all costs. The very heart of their life and their vocation and their vocation for the life of the church. The reduction of anger. When we begin to enter into this converse with God that John speaks of, then we also enter into the peace of the kingdom. And so the heart begins to be formed and transformed by the humility of Christ, his silence, his peace and his compassion. And so the deeper a person enters into prayer, the more that their resentment, anger, feelings of hostility should diminish. Not only are we on to be on the watch for them, but a person who's been transformed through the life of prayer should find that these passions begin to dissipate to the point that they no longer exist. The mirror of progress. And so prayer always becomes the means by which we see our growth in the spiritual life, being the mother of virtues, as John describes it, if it is at the heart of our life. And again, that which nourishes us and sustains us and leads to our growth, then it should also be a reflection of our progress in the spiritual life. The disclosure of stature. So similarly that a prayer, especially one who's a hezekist, the greatness of their heart, if you will, is revealed in and through the depth of their prayer. See an indication of one's condition. So it becomes an indication of the soul's health that where there is dispassion. So a loss of things, a reduction of things like anger or sorrow. It also then becomes a sign of the healing of our soul that we are no longer afflicted by the passions that once held us in their grip. A revelation of future things. So we begin to see within that something of the very life of the Kingdom. They become a reflection of the promises of Christ and so become a source of hope for us that there is something in their countenance, their way of being, their words that few, though they may be, their silence, all bear witness to us as something of the life of the Kingdom and a sign of glory. So they also become for us a reflection of what our participation in the life of the Trinity shall be like. And so we should be seeking to cherish and foster silence, the stillness that we've talked about, but a kind of constancy and prayer. And so gradually this would mean moving away from, again, from the things that are distraction for us that lead to a fragmentation of the mind, agitation of the mind and the heart. For him who truly prayed, prayer is the court, the judgment hall, and the tribunal of the Lord before the judgment to come. So one already participates in the life of the Kingdom. One stands in the full light of God's truth and love. One stands reveal transparent as it were to the light of Christ. And again, this fosters a deeper and deeper humility. There is no use hiding from things. So there's nothing more to be hidden. Even the darkest recesses of our soul become illumined by the presence of Christ like. So this is how John defines prayer and he'll unpack it for us now. But nonetheless, it's a good paragraph to go back and read repeatedly, just because of the deep insights that already come through it. Number two, let us rise and listen to what the Holy Queen of the virtues cries with a loud voice and says to us. Come unto me all ye that are labor and are heavy burden and heavy latent and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and you shall find rest for your souls and healing for your wounds. For my yoke is easy and is a sovereign remedy for great sins. So Christ's own words begin to resonate more and more powerfully within the mind and the heart. These words through which he beckons us to come to him in order that we might know is healing. And the means, the path to that, again, is constancy in prayer. But we hear these words echoed again and again within our own hearts. If you wish to stand before our King and God and converse with him, we must not rush into this without preparation. Less seeing us from afar without weapons and clothing suitable for those who stand before the King. He should order his servants and slaves to seize us and banish us from his presence. And tear up our petitions and throw them in our face. So it's reminiscent certainly of the wedding feast where an individual enters not wearing the wedding garment. So not having been clothed with virtue. Not in particular, not being clothed with humility and love and obedience that we seek to foster. And cultivate the soil of our hearts in order that we might engage in this constant prayer and come before the God. Come before God in a fashion where we are well prepared. And so there's a reason that the fathers all began by discussing the things that John did in the first 26, 27 steps. That we are preparing ourselves for this greater and greater intimacy with the Lord. It's not as though we aren't praying during that period of time, but he wants to remind us that we cannot leap over the fostering of virtue to contemplative prayer. That we must again cultivate the soil of our hearts. Number four, when you're going to stand before the Lord and let the garment of your soul be woven throughout with the thread of obliviousness to wrongs. Otherwise prayer will bring you no benefits. So we are to become oblivious to the wrongs that have been committed against us, the things that people said to us, their harshness, any sins that have been directed towards us, that as we are preparing ourselves to come into the presence of God and long for his mercy and compassion. So we should turn away from any kind of judgment of others. And again, we hear Christ speaking to us in the Gospels about this, be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect, be merciful as your Heavenly Father is merciful. And so as we enter into his presence more and more deeply, that love, that compassion, that mercy is to be reflected in our hearts as well. Number five, let your prayer be completely simple. For both the public and the prodigal son were reconciled to God by a single phrase. So simplicity of prayer. It's not in verbosity. It's not in talkiveness that we are to come to prayer, but it is to arise from the depths of our hearts and then be a reflection of our greatest need, but also our greatest love and devotion for God. And expressions of love typically are simple when directed, not only toward God, but towards others. And the examples he uses here is the public in simply acknowledging his sin, beating his breast, asking for forgiveness. And then the prodigal son, who simply tells his father, I'm not worthy to be called your son, and doesn't get much further in that than saying that to his father before he's embraced by him. But in we're to imitate both of them in this simplicity. And as we will talk about again further along this stuff the Jesus prayer in particular became this short prayer that captures the very essence of our belief in Christ of his mercy, but also the humble acknowledgement of our sinfulness as we stand before him. But it is that simple prayer that arrow prayer that pierces the heavens for us. Number six, the work of prayer is one and the same for all, but there are many kinds of prayer and many different prayers. Some converse with God as with a friend and a master, interceding with praise and petition, not for themselves, but for others. Some strive for greater spiritual riches and glory, and for confidence and prayer. Others ask for complete deliverance from their adversary. Some beg to receive some kind of rank, others for complete forgiveness of debts. Some asked to be released from prison, and others for remission from official offenses. So each person is unique, and that relationship with God is unique and distinctive. And again, we've often talked about this about the great care that spiritual fathers and spiritual melers are to have in offering spiritual counsel and direction to be cognizant of this uniqueness of the other, not to imagine that there is only one way to express one's need or love or devotion for God, that simplicity, yes, that there are common elements that the fathers began to see in the practice of prayer. And it doesn't exclude any of the ones that that he describes here and certainly many more that we can imagine. And we have to be careful of this because sometimes we can, you know, we have a yearning for conformity. And I think this can stifle, not only freedom but growth, and, and I think when we seek to pressure ourselves or others into a particular form of prayer away of praying, we can do great damage, great harm. So a woman, she was a beautiful woman, Emmie Tittenich, who came to the oratory some of you might remember her, who said that she went to some of the early charismatic groups, and it didn't resonate for her. And she felt in some way that there was something lacking within her, because she did not speak in tongues, or she, you know, did not find it within her to fill peace in such an environment, and having to come, you know, over the course of time to see that that is fine. You know, for some it bears great fruit, and soaks the virus of devotion for the Lord but for others. It is perhaps going to be a distraction, or simply not be a reflection of what is within their heart perhaps silence is the way that they approach the Lord, and hear him most fully. Number seven. Before all else, let us list sincere thanksgiving. First on the scroll of our prayer. So gratitude to God for the many gifts that he has given to us. John has already told us and we've also read within the evergatinas that gratitude thanksgiving often brings upon us a flood of even greater graces when we are grateful for our small blessings that we have given. It is not long before greater graces are bestowed upon us. And so john says first on the scroll is to thank God for what he has given to us. And it's an important thing not only for the reasons that I said but often we can find ourselves slipping into a kind of despondency, you know, frustration resentment about our lives. And we can find out our life anxiety about things going on in our life to, and to be able to look beyond these things or look through them to acknowledge the gifts of God that none of these things out outweigh them. And so some of you came into the group we were talking this morning, we had all these things to do and we were to run across the other side of the city. And I came down to find the laundry room sink filled with muddy water. And so, all of a sudden you're thrown out of yourself for a moment, like, Oh, my gosh, you know, where's this water coming from, first of all, what does it smell like. And, you know, can I get it open myself, or does this throw our plans off altogether. And things worked out we got somebody here as I mentioned, but to be able to stay calm in the face of that. It comes from our capacity to turn to God, and having turned to God prior to that, thanking him for the gifts that he's given us even another day of life. And the many blessings that he's given us whether it's family, friends, so that these these things do not blind us they don't become the lens through which we view ourselves or view our day. And how often have things like this thrown us off completely, in the sense that this day is ruined, or I'm not going to accomplish what I want to do. And so, we had a video of Michael Kane, you know the actor, and he said very early on his father taught him that whenever they came up against a difficulty, that they were to ask themselves how, how, how do we work this difficulty. How do we use it in a way to move forward to make the most of it if we even make a quarter of 1% gain through the difficulty. We've come out ahead. And so not to let the difficulty become an obstacle for us, but to work for us. And sometimes difficulties, little afflictions like that can really focus us surprisingly. Give us, you know, they wake us up a little bit and they can sharpen our vision, and our need for prayer, and to keep the calm, keep calm in our heart, and we find ourselves making our way through that. But sometimes when your adrenaline starts pumping, you begin to see things a little bit more clearly. It knocks off the cobwebs, and you're able to move forward. And so what John is saying here I think is important on a number of different levels, never lose sight of God, and the greater gifts that are given, and the gifts that sometimes even emerge in the difficulties that we face on a given day. Second line, we should put confession and heartfelt contrition of soul. So the ways that we have failed to be grateful, or the ways that we have focused in upon ourselves, and lost sight of God in his love. The ways that we have idolized things in our life, rather than having a pure love for the Lord. And so we humbly acknowledge those things in a spirit of contrition and compunction and turn toward me. Then let us present our petition to the king of all. So it is after this Thanksgiving, this acknowledgement of our sin before him, do we, we then have a kind of freedom to lay before him our particular needs, unimpeded by, you know, again, a lack of gratitude, or a lack of acknowledgement of our, our sin. He says, then let us present, I'm sorry, he says this is the best way of prayer, as it was shown to one of the brethren by an angel of the Lord. And exactly who that is, but sometimes these are autobiographical. And so one might imagine it could be John himself, that this was revealed to the course of time he did live as you remember a life of great solitude for many years. Any comments or questions so far on what John has written. Number eight. If you ever have been under trial before an earthly judge, you will not need any other pattern for your attitude and prayer. But if you've never stood before judge yourself and have not seen others being cross question, then learn at least from the way the sick implore the surgeons, when they're about to be operated on or cauterized. We have to probably think back to what surgery was like in John's day to really grasp what he's saying here you when you're about to be cauterized, you're probably begging the surgeon to have mercy, or, and, and so with the same urgency that would arise within the heart to ask for the Lord's mercy would arise within us. And, you know, I think eventually, you know that urgency is still expressed, even when driven by a kind of pure love. In fact, the, you know, the urgency of love and urgent longing for God is even more powerful. And, but John uses this image of, you know, coming before a judge that we acknowledge, you know, that there is no hiding from the truth that, you know, the moment is now. I think, especially in regards to prayer, this is very important. The kingdom is now. Heaven is now. And we often are, you know, very linear in our thinking in our view of time. Rather than understanding that the kingdom of God dwells within us. And so this urgency that we often hear within the language of the father should really be more of a reflection of that reality, that what Christ has promised what he's made possible for us through the Eucharist, the gift of his own spirit has transformed what we become, but also the immediacy with which we experience the presence of God. We experience the presence of God within. And so our, our response to that should be something that is immediate that is urgent that holds that again to be the most important and precious reality for us. If you remember in his definition right at the beginning, he says, the prayer upholds the world. And I, all week long I haven't been able to get that out of my mind, because so often the life of silence of prayer monasticism is seen as a waste of time, or useless. And here John is telling us that it holds up the very fabric of the world, that those who are engaged in this hidden and silent work are engaged in the most important of all things. And that it upholds the world not only for themselves, but for others. Corral where does anybody still have corral where we have it by the loads here. It holds up pretty well. Serve a joke in our family sorry about that. Okay. Number nine, do not be over sophisticated in the words you use when praying, because the simple and unadorned listing of children has often won the heart of their heavenly father. So it's not beautiful that we aren't to worry about words or how things come out within us, you know, often it will be grown, or size, or something that really does not makes sense that is more a reflection of perhaps the affliction that we are bearing or the longing that we have for the Lord, and often these things have a greater impact and speak more deeply to God, then something that is well thought out written out eloquent, yet not arising from the very depths of a person's heart. You know it's often said that, you know, some of these monks, as they're drawn more more deeply into prayer get to a point that they're not even sure if they're praying at all. That as they're drawn more deeply into this intimacy with the Lord, and engage in the silence and fill themselves being drawn along. As they've done in the past might not be recognizable now as they're drawn into this greater intimacy with Christ, no one can move to this, you know, prayer, prayer of simplicity prayer of the heart, and then into complete silence before the Lord. And one of the beautiful stories from the fathers is that he lamented when he felt the warmth of the sun on his face in the morning, and he becomes this sort of drawn out of this depth of prayer that he had been engaged in. And so, oftentimes wondering, you know, had one been praying, or was one sleeping, you remember, and I think it was in the ever Latinos, one monk has two monks watch him at night to see if he fell asleep at all, because, you know, he was wasn't sure, you know, if he was dropping off during this barrel. Anthony writes, so how to ignore the rational and irrational mind when praying, just pray and eventually it happens, because my mind gets in the way. I think for everybody that's true that the thoughts are what intrude upon us, and I think this is what's beautiful about the Eastern fathers is the consistent teaching on moving from that multiplicity to simplicity, and engaging in that battle to do so, especially making use of the Jesus prayer to do so, and, and it's also why they avoid a kind of discursive meditation, and the use of imagination and things such as that as well, because what they're seeking to do is to still the mind, and still the thoughts, and to reduce that both the agitation and sometimes fragmentation that comes upon us through daily work and conversation. So in our life, how we engage in prayer before the set times of prayer is equally as important, and how we engage in our light as a whole is equally important. So we are to be in a state of recollection, or seeking the foster, this remembrance of God throughout the course of the day of the day, we are to engage in our labors in a way that we stay focused upon what is, is we're doing we seek to maintain that calmness that stillness of mind and heart, not to lose the peace of Christ by becoming angry or fearful. All of these things then help us when we do have this set or fixed time for prayer to move to that stillness that silence with greater ease. In fact, John talks about that that one can get to a point where with less toil, they can move to that place of silence, less toil in the sense of raining in that multiplicity of thoughts. There are some individuals I think by nature that are more cognitive, who have active minds. And it's not a flaw. You know, I think, you know, there's a kind of creativity there, this analytic quality to their thinking in their mind. So, I think sometimes it can be more challenging then to be able to rain in those thoughts. And so one has to be create a kind of prayer role for themselves where they are fostering that recollection that remembrance of God. And John will say, quantity as well as quality is very important that spending more time in prayer is important as well, in order to cultivate that simplicity. And I would say for those who have a very active mind, things like vigils, or the many retreats that we've talked about where there's a deeper immersion for three hours in prayer where you gradually thoughts begin to still that we do all these things in order to help ourselves overcome an overactive mind whether it's rational or irrational thoughts that are coming forward. And sometimes I think when we first engage in prayer, that, and we're opening our hearts to God, we are becoming vulnerable to God, where the defenses begin to draw that often what emerges from the depths of the heart. It's almost like what emerges from the depths of the unconscious, it can be what the time seem air rash seems irrational. We can, we often ask ourselves, where in the world did that thought come from, or why all of a sudden did I have these feelings of anger. And sometimes it can be something emerges from the unconscious a memory of a past wound. And so we have a memory of our sister or somebody like that, and who said something mean to us 30 years ago, and all of a sudden we are hot, and as hot as we were back then. As the Freud said that always fascinated me he said that there is no sense of time in the unconscious, we might not be aware of it because it's been repressed on a certain and on a certain level that it's still there, but it's not actively present to our minds and not thinking about it and something can trigger a thought a memory like that and immediately comes back to mind. And sometimes depending upon whether or not we, the wound was deep, or we've experienced healing in our life on an emotional level or spiritual level in regards to that relationship. So feelings and emotions tied, and sometimes their rational thoughts tied to those memories can come forward as well. So at the very moment that we're becoming more vulnerable to God, and sitting in silence, at times what emerges from the heart can be unsettling. And John of the cross even mentions, I don't want to be overly graphic about this but he mentions a time certainly certain bodily movements that were unsettling for him that happened during prayer. I think it's often for the same reason is this kind of vulnerability that we have as we're standing before God we're not, we're not filtering what is emerging from the heart but allowing it to come forward as God wills in order that it might be healed by his grace. And so our experience of prayer is not always going to be one of consolation. Sometimes things are going to emerge that we might find unsettling and might even wonder why it's coming forward at the time of prayer. And then for us to understand this in order that we might not become discouraged or anxious, or think that there's something wrong with us. Oh my gosh I'm sick. How could that thought come forward at that at this time of prayer. And I can tell you the number of people I've talked to who felt then you know I should just get up and walk out of the chapel or just stop right there. And the answer is no, that we humbly offer whatever it is that comes from the heart to God. And you know for his judgment or his blessing but also for his healing. And so we do that as well with the times those irrational thoughts. And some days the thoughts are going to run so quickly. And wash over you that you, you know I think sometimes you pick up the pace a little bit of the Jesus prayer, and you just allow it to set aside these thoughts as they come. And we're not wasted time. In fact john tells us never see the time that we spend in prayer as a waste of time, because we have a sense that it did not go well for us. And this is extraordinarily important, because there are times where we are going to feel bored, or we're going to feel like not praying. And sometimes we have that feeling. We wonder, you know, is there a problem with my faith do I not love God, because I'm on this day I'm forcing myself to get out of bed. And it's like I have to use the whip on myself to get myself moving. And we can think that all right, you know I'm failing at this practice of prayer and obviously can be true. You know we might be straining with every fiber of our being the what God sees is the desire. And so that's what one wants to keep in mind. David writes, sometimes something tactile like a chalk key rosary or stone, have one that fits my hand from a retreat center can help one become grounded. And so it's an icon or icons, or image can help set the mind and still others, a candle or breathing technique can quickly return us to a calm state. Right. So, put also prostrations. I think most people in our day we see people prostrating in prayer, we immediately think Muslim, but Christians have been making prostrations in prayer centuries before the rise of Islam. So, it's constantly been this part of our prayer of making use of the full self of humbling oneself before God. And so on a given day when we might be struggling with our thoughts and maybe we're in a rage or we feel wounded by something that somebody did to us that the practice for us might be to be doing a prostration every time that we say one of the Jesus prayers that we engage in the full self because we know that we are engaged in this battle and with our own thoughts and feelings. Now, for some of them that are a little older here doesn't necessarily have to be a prostration down on the ground. I don't want to come and be picking you up off the floor, every couple minutes, but, you know, it can be a simple head bow, or a bow of the waste. But again, it involves like David says this kind of tactile experience as well as movement. Jeffrey Fitzgerald writes, what are we to make of the time of a time of that kind of quiet prayer when prayer becomes, if you will, overwhelming. It seems that genuine prayer would be quite simple. So how can it become so blinding, or is that a false prayer or counterfeit. Yeah, it can be, but I think sometimes what we read in the fathers is that the action of the Holy Spirit within the heart can be very much what you describe as overwhelming that the transformation that is taking place what God is doing within the mind and the heart is so profound that one is, you know, drawn to their needs. Again, Philip Mary is a wonderful example of this he had a mystical experience in the catacombs of Rome. And it's called Philips Pentecost, it happened on the vigil of Pentecost and he was down in the catacombs of Saint Sebastian, which at that time, you know, they weren't tour sites or anything like that and had no electricity. And how he didn't get lost down there is beyond me but pray, pray all night long in the catacombs. And he had this experience of the Holy Spirit entering into his heart. And this is hard expanded to the point that the autopsy showed that his upper ribs broke outwards. And from that point he had this palpitation of the heart that would shake the room. And sometimes during the liturgy, he would have to bite on the chalice, because it would be so overwhelming. And at times he would have to say enough God enough or no more no more I can bear no more. So, Jeffrey, I think what you're talking about here is, you know, sometimes God acting and accord with his own providence. And in response to the soul's openness and desire for him, where that spirit really takes hold of the heart and transforms it in a radical way. So, if anyone knows her, had similar experience. And the autopsy showed the same thing, the outer upper ribs being broken outward. But other times we do have to beware and put things to the test that sometimes our emotions, you know, our spiritual life on an effective level can ramp up. And so we are called to put certain things to the test. Is this a genuine consolation from God or a fruit of the action of God's spirit within us? Or is it something that's being enacted on an emotional level becomes more from us? Or is it something that also could be demonic provocation, you know, that certain thoughts or ideas are put before us where we are whipping ourselves up maybe into an emotional fervor. And so, the saints, again, are unanimous in that regard to put all these kinds of, as well as any kind of vision apparition to the most rigorous kind of test in fact to reject them. They would often say, because if it is from God, then he will manifest it in another fashion that is better to engage in this battle with great caution. But good, good question. Let's see, Wayne writes, doing some active physical activity can settle the mind down before prayer. That's right. And as a number of things can do this, you know, certainly what you're describing here, you know, to be able to get up to walk to take a walk to calm and still the mind of the heart and the heart. At the monastery, when you walk out in the morning before going to the chapel for prayer, you know, the silence, the stars, the wind through the trees, all these things calm and still the heart. But something like walking or reading something from the scriptures or spiritual writer that stirs the devotion for the warm one writer describes it the warming of the heart that takes place. I've mentioned it once here before, there's a book called A Night on the Mount, A Night in the Desert on the Holy Mountain. So it's the experiences of Herodias, Vlakos on Mount Athos, and visiting the elders there during the night. And he speaks a lot about this warming of the heart and preparation for the Jesus prayer. So a night in the desert on the Holy Mountain. So great questions. Move on. Okay. Number 10, do not try to be verbose when you pray, lest your mind be distracted in searching for words. One word of the public and propitiated God. And one cry of faith saved the thief. The quasity and prayer often distracts the mind and leads to fantasy, whereas brevity makes for concentration. So, not only does a simple word often capture the essence of what's going on within our heart, but it also helps us to avoid distraction and being led astray, or, you know, over analyzing things to the point that we, again, muddy, muddy the waters. I've tried keeping a journal, and I know a lot of people do this and I'm not criticizing it so don't feel like I am but I've just I've never been able to do it because immediately I start thinking about what what I'm writing and how I'm writing it. So thinking about, you know, does that make sense, you know, just have sound beautiful, you know, and so I've just, I've never, never done it. And some people take to it like a duck in water. You know, they can sit and write and it flows fluidly from the heart, but for me it's a kind of distraction. Okay. Number 11. Do you feel sweetness or conduction at some word of your prayer. Dwell on it. For then our guardian angel is praying with us. So it's interesting this is one of the times that john tells us to pause. And to reflect upon this kind of sweetness that emerges within the heart. And actually tells us that something is being revealed to us. And in particular through the angel the messenger that has been given to us by God our guardian angel. And so to cause and to reflect upon what is being made manifest through the sweetness that one might be experiencing. Or simply to acknowledge the sweetness of being wrapped in the love of God, perhaps our guardian angel is telling us, slow down, stop or listen at this moment. Number 12, do not be bold, even though you may be have attained toward, but rather approach with great humility, and you will receive still more boldness. So, you know, in our prayer, even if we've been praying for many years, that it always is to have this quality of humility about it, that we come before God. And with this full transparency truth, truthful about ourselves, the things that we struggle with, with no arrogance or confidence in the self or as if the capacity for prayer arises anywhere else other than the grace of God. And this is strangely enough john says then, if we hold on to that humility if we hold on to this understanding that God is the one who's drawing us forward that he is creates within us, this holy longing. And in can run with the greatest swiftness and greater boldness approaching in terms of our quest our needs are intentions. It is that spirit of humility that must guard and protected. We can't be like Martha, tell my sister to get up and help me, you know, that, and often our prayers can take on that quality. My mom's driving me nuts, you know, have her do this all already. You know, it's, this is not how to approach God. You know, it's not directed towards others, or, you know, again, upon the things that are particularly frustrating to us. It's often through affliction. And in fact, in fact, it's particularly through affliction that that virtue comes to us. And yet we so often pray that it is taken away. Number 13, though you may have climbed the whole ladder of the virtues, pray for forgiveness of sins. Listen to the cry of Paul regarding sinners, of whom I am the chief, of whom I'm the first all says. And even if there has been great growth in virtue, or john Paul would even say, even if our conscience is clear and does not bother us that we should not count that as as purity. That we are not aware our conscience is not a rebuking us but we still come before God with profound humility knowing that even the righteous sin seven times a day. Lee, did you have a comment there. Go ahead, take your time. Where does it say that, because I tried to find that for someone recently that a righteous person since that seven times a day. Goodness sake, somebody looked it up. I tried to find it. I could not find it. Is it one of the prophets or the songs I thought but I should have that memorize I'm sorry I don't. But somebody wanted to hear. Thank you. Proverbs 24 very good quick at the draw Jeff. Thank you. Proverbs 24. Got it. I should write that in the column of my book. Oil and salt. Our seasonings for food and tears and chastity give wings to prayer. So tears and chastity, you know our compunction and sorrow but purity of heart. This is what elevates our prayer strengthens it deepens it. And so that spirit of compunction that purity of heart we're to pursue to the end of our life. Knowing that it is always something that elevates our prayer. If you're clothed in all meekness and freedom from anger, you will not have much trouble in loosing your mind from captivity. So meekness and freedom from anger meekness is as we've often talked about is the anger that we have being transformed by the grace in the love of God. That anger often rises in the face of injustice. Not only directed towards the demonic provocations that come towards us where we become incensed angry at them, but I think whenever we encounter evil in any fashion or form within the world and injustice. And so, and especially when it's directed towards ourself he's saying here, if we have this if we've clothed ourselves in it, and where our hearts remain unmoved, then we are minds are not going to be taken captive. And so, there are many times that we can walk into prayer, just so steamed, you know, at what is going on or what somebody has done around us, or just some irritating thing that somebody does to us. They can give rise to anger, but if we are meek and we, you know, do not focus upon the natural faults and defects of others, then we're, we're not going to be taken captive by these small things. They seem small, but they often have great hold upon our hearts. Number 16, until we have acquired genuine prayer. We're like people teaching children to begin to walk. It's an interesting idea, interesting image. So teaching children to begin to walk, they need to be held, you know, you know, often they hold on to your fingers and you walk behind them. And, and, you know, without prayer, you know, in the spiritual life, we have that same instability, you know, we haven't yet developed the strength of legs to move us forward. We have to allow ourselves to be, you know, guided forward, helped aided more and more by the grace of God until, you know, this prayer becomes more and more deeply rooted within us. We feel the grace of God, but, you know, without prayer, or when our prayers, we, we often need others intercession on our behalf. And to rely upon that, you know, our particular saints, friends, people praying for us, or our guardian angel, until these become the reality. Beautiful thing, I think the solidarity and the communion that exists between us. And the deeper ones prayer comes, the more one begins to realize that, and also to realize that how so many things can be born, or done, that often come through the prayers of others, not so much our own prayer. That we are sustained, that we are aided in enduring the things that we have to go through by the prayers and the assistance of others. So even if we are prayers, it's often through the grace that comes through another's teaching God on our behalf. Number 17, trying to lift up, or rather to enclose your thought within the words of your prayer. And if in its infant state, it worries and falls, lifted up again. Instability is natural to the mind. The God is powerful to establish all things. If you persevere into fatterability in this flavor, he who sets the bounds to the sea of the mind will visit you too. Enduring your prayer will say to the waves, thus far shall you come in no further. Spirit cannot be bound, but where the creator of the spirit is, everything obeys. This makes my mind go back to what Anthony was talking about, you know, what if the thoughts are coming constantly, what if they're, you know, whether they're irrational or rational, like the waves of the sea. And what a beautiful image John uses here, that even though it seems impossible to us, it is all things are possible for the God who dwells within us. And so remembering, you know, with one word, he stills the waves of the sea storm, he stills the storm, and a similar way within our hearts to, and calling out to him as they called out to him in the boat. That in an instant, all that seemed so out of control and chaotic can suddenly become still and peaceful. And this is, again, one of the reasons why we would not want to give up in our time of prayer, even if we do feel like, as it were, the boat has been swamped by waves, waves of thought that we continue on persevering. As he says, trusting that the Lord, again, can speak that word. What is it that we have to be anxious again, why would we become despondent, knowing that this is true, that the creator of all things, who sets the bounds to all things, can make our thoughts still. That, you know, in a word. And one final line here, number 18. If you've ever seen the sun, as you are, you will also be able to converse with him fiddly. But if not, how can you truly hold converse with what you have never seen, what you have not seen. So the footnotes as son of righteousness, you know, how do we converse, how do we enter into communion with one that we do not know. And you remember when I told you the story about my early spiritual direction experiences, who is Jesus to you, and also how many people burst into tears at the thought, because they could not, they just could not say who Christ was to them. And so John is saying to us, you know, how is it that we approach in something like prayer, which is the most intimate form of converse without having seen with our own eyes. We have to be like Thomas, in the sense spiritually probing the wounds of Christ in his hand, sticking our hand into his side that we have to know intimately this selfless self emptying love that has poured itself out for us. And then holds and sustains us and being embraces us, arms out stretched on the cross embraces us unconditionally. And how do we approach prayer without knowing, not knowing him. And, you know, call the cross, I've mentioned he says, you know, every morning, when you get up, you know, for the first 10 minutes meditate upon each of the wounds of Christ on the cross. And he says, Oh, what an eloquent sermon. No, no more eloquent sermon than that. And he's, he's right. It draws us right to where we need to be. Saint Philip says we should enter so deeply into the wound and Christ side that we could never find our way back out again. This is how well we are to come to know. Not just in our minds in our thoughts, but the one who's entered into every aspect of the life and the love of Christ. And it's surprising sometimes, you know, again, the things that are most difficult for us the afflictions, the crosses that we bear, take us so deeply into that wound in his side. And Mary, participating so deeply in his redemption for a sortle shower will pierce through your heart as well. And the more we love him, the more that we enter into that relationship, the more we come to know him experience that love, not just with our thoughts. To meditate upon here. And so enjoy it. Go back over it again and again and we'll pick up there next week. Thanks for all the wonderful comments, questions, beautiful night. It's always a pleasure. Well, won't be close, is always with our father named the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit, Amen. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen, the Lord be with you. God bless you, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Go in peace. God bless.