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Welcome back, everybody, to our study of the latter divine ascent, by Saint John Klimakus, and we are picking up this evening with our reading of step number 27 on stillness. And so we are in the last few steps of the latter, where we begin to hear John describe some of the fruits of the ascetic life. And certainly we've talked about discernment, but now stillness of mind and heart, and what that looks like, but also some of the challenges of maintaining it. And so, you know, all the virtues, especially these touch upon all the rest. And so they have a tendency to come back, or he has a tendency to come back and show the connections between the various virtues, but also the vices that can undermine this particular gift. And so wonderful step, certainly for us, but it's also challenging in some ways, too. Okay, we are again on number 41. A young wife who has not been faithful to her marriage bed, has defiled her body, and a soul who has not been faithful to his vow, has defiled his spirit. Her approach, hatred, thrashings, and most pitious of all separation will befall the first. The other will have to face pollution, forgetfulness of death, insatiability of stomach, lack of control of the eyes, working for vangloy, pining for sleep, burdening of the heart, I'm sorry, hardening of the heart, deadness and insensitivity. A depository of thoughts, an increase of consent, captivity of heart, disturbance of work, disobedience, contradiction, attachment, unbelief, uncertainty of heart, talkativeness, and, worst of all, free familiarity. And still more wretched, a heart without compunction, which in the negligent is followed by insensibility, the mother of demons and falls. So basically, every sin that you can imagine comes back to one. I think when we would turn away from such a precious gift, that stillness is hard won, certainly, and also comes as a great grace to the individual. And I think this is why he uses the image in the beginning of an unfaithful wife, that there is an infidelity to God in turning away, or turning back to the things of this world when he has drawn an individual into such deep stillness and silence to know a union and communion with the Lord, to have this experience and encounter of the living God, unimpeded by the passions or unimpeded by thoughts. And if you remember, some of the fathers will describe sort of giving ourselves over to thoughts and ideas turning the mind and the heart away from God, not remembering him as infidelity and adultery, they would say, or idolatry. So it becomes a worship of the things of this world and a profound infidelity to God when we prefer those things to his greater gifts. And in this case, in particular, stillness would be one of the greatest of them, to live in this kind of constant communion with him that is undistracted. And so we begin to see how things fall away, that one loses the capacity to have the kind of watchfulness that one has striven for over the course of years. And a pining is a good word here, this part of this description, a pining for sleep, but it also becomes a pining for all the things that are kinds of distractions for us, that living in deep silence is a beautiful thing when one has a kind of urgent longing and desire for God. But when one has turned away from that or driven out of it by a kind of despondency, then it can be something that's very painful and creates an equally urgent longing for the things of the world to fill up the mind and the heart to release one from a kind of painful loneliness that might emerge. And that can be so strong that it leads to a negligence that is followed, he says, by insensibility, the mother of the demons and falls. So an insensibility that the conscience, rather than being sensitized to the things that are contrary to God, actually becomes dulled. And we lose that capacity to discern the approach of distracting thoughts or temptations, provocations of the evil one. And so the higher that one climbs the ladder, the greater the fall as it were, that the greater the gifts given, the greater the loss can be. And so one has to hold on to this, acknowledging the preciousness of it and the extraordinary nature of the gift. So great dangers here. And I think in laying it out so clearly for us, it's not so much to fill us with fear, but rather to open our eyes to just how precious this gift is and why all the struggles of the ascetic life make it worth pursuing. Number 42. Out of the eight evil spirits, five, assail those practicing stillness and three, those living in obedience. And so the ones that attack those who are living in obedience tend to be those that are tied to the bodily appetite. So if you see in the footnote at the bottom, gluttony, anger, lust, the things that you would might expect in living the common life, where there might be more of an abundance of food. Living with others, a tendency to chatter, to talk about things, can give rise to a lack of watchfulness of heart, then lustful thoughts, and then anger, being irritated by others' natural defects and flaws. Whereas the vices that are tied to undermining stillness would be of more of a spiritual nature. So pride, vain glory, sloth, despondency, covetousness, those that are rooted deep within and are often things that are tied to memory and imagination. So coveting the things that others have within the world being reminded of what one lacks rather than seeing what one has in Christ. So I think we can see then why the beginning of the spiritual life is always with these appetites or these vices that are tied to the bodily desires. That first we have to discipline ourselves in this regard. Before we begin to deal with those vices that are far more subtle and where the provocation of the evil one can be more difficult to see approaching. Number 43. He who is practicing stillness and fighting despondency often suffers great harm. For the time which should be given to prayer and divine vision, he wastes in tricks and wrestling to battle against it. So despondency, this kind of deep sadness and experience of loss, of wonder of whether or not the living in solitude is worth what one experiences. And so one can be drawn into this kind of deep sadness that can become then for us negligence and neglect. And so a person has to begin then struggling and figuring out ways to overcome that movement within the mind in the heart rather than being absorbed in the focus upon God through prayer and what he manifests to the mind and the heart. And so the constant battle to stay within the cell and even for those of us living in the world to stay within the heart and not allow ourselves to be pulled to the things outside of us, the things that are distractions that can ease that what we experience sometimes is a burden of silence rather than sweetness that can ease that for us. And so we find ourselves wrestling with these things rather than resting in Christ and experiencing the sweetness that comes from that stillness of deep prayer. And it's here soon in the coming paragraphs that John will describe this in a more personal way for us, what he experienced in his own life and trying to understand things even beyond him. So allowing himself to be lost in kind of distraction with speculative ideas. Number 44. Once having become slack, I was sitting in myself and almost thinking of leaving it. But some people came to me and began to praise me not a little as a hezekist. And at once the thought of slackness gave place to the thought of ainglory. And I was amazed at how this three horned demon opposes all the other spirits. So John has talked about this before that the demons don't necessarily work together, that there's a kind of chaos within which they act and certain demons are dedicated to leading people into particular sins. And so this is one example of it that a person can be overcome with a kind of slothfulness. He's thinking about leaving his Hermitage. And lo and behold, people come and they begin to praise him and refer to him as a hezekist, one who's attained this level of deep stillness. And all of a sudden what crops up within his heart is ainglory of being prideful or filled with self-esteem because others see him in this positive light. And in an interesting way, it's almost counterintuitive. He allows himself to be taken hold of by the ainglory because it protects him from the sloth that makes him want to leave the Hermitage, to leave the stillness. But nonetheless, he still has to eventually have to do battle with the ainglory. But it shows us something important that there can be multiple demons that provoke us in different ways. Sometimes they do not work together and being aware of what provocations that we are encountering and how they are overcome becomes very important for this reason. That it almost seems like an absurdity that one could use something like a vice to overcome another. But the cost of the loss of leaving the cell, I think, in his mind through sloth and negligence would begin to pick up steam. It would snowball and lead him out of what he had committed himself to. Whereas vainglory had been cold that one was a haschus when one is actually daydream about leaving. I think the thought is that could be overcome by humility, by acknowledging that it was false praise. And so that he would fight one with the other, as it were. And certainly, I think, very few of us would have the skill to do that. But nonetheless, he puts it before us to show us something of the unique battle of the haschus that the battle, in a sense, does not become easier. It becomes, in fact, more subtle and more fierce. The greater the gifts, the greater the blessings, the more the demons will seek to undermine it. And so if God has called these unique individuals to a life of radical solitude and stillness, then the demons are going to do everything in their power to undermine that vocation and pull them away from it. And today, I was reading a little bit from Isaac, the Syrian, and who is this great lover of stillness and silence, but he talks about it as the haschus and the stillness itself, the virtue, as elevating the church, of strengthening the church. But it has an effect not only upon the anchorite, but the church as a whole, that gives the church strength within by having those who are wrapped in this deep union and communion with the Lord and living in it constantly. And I've mentioned before how certain bishops will see the strength of their diocese or their eparchy as reflected by how many contemplative communities exist within it, precisely because they are at the very heart of the church and the very heart of that spiritual battle. And so if you have those in your diocese or are waging this kind of warfare and praying for the church as a whole, it's going to strengthen the whole community. Number 45. Observe every hour, the slaps and cuffs, the inclinations and changes of your command of your companion that is the spirit of despondency and see how and where they are directed. He who has obtained serenity through the Holy Spirit is familiar with his spectacle. So, you know, one who has come to experience this kind of peace serenity that is the peace of the kingdom that is at this point almost invincible can see the attacks. The slaps and the cuffs, as it were, that come from the companion of the anchor, the companion who's always going to be there, like a shadow trying to undermine their vocation. So they become very, very much aware of the slaps and the cuffs that comes throughout the course of the day to lead them either again into despondency or into negligence, into into a lack of zeal. And so, again, this is the kind of training of the heart and of discernment that we want to foster. And so, again, we're beginning to see why John has linked things together in the way that he has. If you remember, it was humility that gives birth to discernment and discernment finally now to stillness and discernment and humility have to proceed it if one is going to be able to enter into this stillness and remain in it. Number 46. The preliminary task of stillness is the disengagement from all affairs, whether reasonable or senseless. For he who allows even reasonable ones will certainly fall into those which are not. The second task of stillness is earnest prayer. And the third is inviolable activity of the heart. It is naturally impossible for one who does not know the alphabet to study books. It is still more impossible for one who is not attained to the first to rightly practice the last two tasks. So, disengagement from all affairs. I think again, when we are immersed in the affairs of the world, it's hard for us to imagine this or even to see how this then would apply to our life. When we have certain demands on our attention, on our drawn into the affairs of the world, that for the Hasekest, certainly, the one who lives in stillness, there has to be a complete disengagement from such things, reasonable or senseless, he says. And the reasonable ones are the most difficult to step away from. The things that come to our mind that tell us, oh, I need to attend to this particular duty. And for the Hasekest, it might even be the thought, I should really attend to this act of charity, which certainly would be constant with the teaching of the gospel. But for one who's been called to this constancy of silence and stillness and prayer, it is going to be this very powerful pull away from that. It is the good often that can be used or that which is benign that can be used to draw us away from the path of God as let us upon. And for those of us living in the world, I think what it tells us is that we too are to disengage certainly from the things that are senseless, not allowing ourselves to fill our lives with distractions that end up wasting time rather than allowing us to do spiritual reading, to focus upon the scriptures, to pray, to read the Fathers. We will spend hours and hours watching television or the news or daydreaming. And so we too are to seek this kind of simplicity of life where we gradually move to a place where we let those things go. And when we get to that point, we wonder why is it that that had such a hold on me because it really offered nothing, at least not what I thought it did, that a person who stops watching television or who stops watching the news never misses it, never misses not having a television. And it doesn't take very long for that to emerge because you begin to experience, first of all, a greater peace, that there's something about not just the news, but television as a whole that is agitating, that there is this loudness of the commercials, a frenetic kind of activity, the very ways that they edit certain things are so quick that it naturally is going to agitate the heart. I've even found myself unnerved by certain religious teachers online, and they'll often have professional editors edit their videos of them. And they'll use this, I don't know what it's called, maybe there's somebody here who knows editing well, but it's like this very quick cut, there's no like transition. And so what happens is they edit out things from what the person was saying, and they'll tie it immediately to the next thought. And so there's no natural cause. And so to listen to them almost becomes fatiguing, because it makes it seem as though the peace with which they are speaking is very rapid. And it becomes very difficult to follow along this constant flood of information, where there's no cause to take a breath or to consider what is being said. And I think in advertising and television as a whole, that's a tool to hold a person's attention. And there has to be very little space given for a person to direct that attention somewhere else, because they don't want to lose somebody from watching their commercial, or watching their television show. They know how people have an abundance of options and choices now. And so we are just constantly flooded. Like people have hundreds of television channels, and you can never find anything that's good on them, because it's all garbage. It's all junk food. And television commercials are the worst, because they're so inane that it's like idiots, putting on this little 30-second show. And you think, boy, are we really like that as human beings, that somebody who's in advertising could think that watching that commercial would be attractive or entertaining to us. That is so lowbrow, you think, oh my goodness, what impact does that have upon the psyche, even if you're not paying attention to it? It's the background noise. And so long digression there. But the idea is simplifying our life and being willing to make those choices where we open up the space that makes what John is speaking of here possible, that we too, within the world, are called to taste the sweetness of that intimacy with the Lord, and to foster a kind of constancy in prayer. But the first thing John tells us is that there has to be this disengagement. There has to be this choice of simplicity that we free ourselves from the clutter of our life. And that can be material goods, but it can also be the things that distract our attention and fragment our days and fragment our minds. And so first is that before we can develop the more important things, which are earnest prayer, that we are not doing it simply episodically, but we're seeking to direct the mind in the heart to God constantly. And then lastly, inviolable activity of the heart. And so what John is speaking of here would be the constant remembrance of God through the Jesus prayer in particular, that it becomes like our breathing until we ourselves become prayer, that it becomes so much a part of us. And so he says here, inviolable activity of the heart, that it's become so much a part of us that we become prayer itself, that nothing can break in upon that, even the things that we are called to do throughout the course of the day. So mothers who are in the home taking care of their children, or those who work in the marketplace have to engage in conversation with others. But when we've developed this inviolable activity of the heart, when we have the Jesus prayer constantly on our lips, on a surface level, we have to engage others in conversation and throughout the course of the day. But this prayer can so form the heart that on the deeper level of our consciousness, it continues on, especially in light of the gift of the Holy Spirit that dwells within us. That we have the spirit of love that cries out constantly to God with groans beyond words. And so if our hearts are focused upon that constantly, then our core prayer is going to be taken out into it. And even at times when we're engaged in work, and even during our sleep, our sleeping hours, this is how completely the mind and the heart can be formed, and how deep that union communion with God can become. But there's never a moment that we are without Him, and that we are not attentive to Him. St. Isaac the Syrian describes it as the heart swallowing the Lord and His name, and then in turn the Lord's swallowing the heart. That there's this mutual consumption of the other that takes place, a communion with each other. And so we find this express most fully, certainly within the Holy Eucharist, where there's a consummation of that love. But the consummation of that love is something that is then to continue on. It's not simply for that moment when we receive the Lord, but it is to draw us ever deeper into that reality. David, I'm not sure what OBS software is. Is that the editing software? Okay. Thank you. Is it Leilani? Right. It's true. I stopped watching TV. It's amazing how annoying it is when you're exposed. Right. I mean, if you distance yourself for it, especially for a couple of years, and then you're exposed to it again, it's like the grating nails on a chalkboard. And it can be very difficult. And in some ways, you don't want to let go of that experience of the grating of the nails on the chalkboard, because then you know that you've been desensitized to it and have it, you know, accepted it again. It's the norm. Cindy writes, "Most major movie trailers will have a cut every second." Isn't that interesting? So so so quickly that, you know, it really ramps up the activity of the moment. Callie, Eisenhower writes, "Father, sometimes I feel guilty turning to the Jesus prayer when I'm feeling distracted or off track. Like my mind isn't where it needs to be saying the prayer. You know, I think the struggle, struggle. I get what you're saying there, but the struggle is really both internal and external that we've talked, as you know, about the multiplicity of thoughts that we have. And so, you know, one of the things that we are going to struggle with in the spiritual life is with distraction, even when we are at prayer, and not to become anxious about that, but to use the Jesus prayer to gently move the mind and the heart back to the Lord. It becomes sort of like a gentle weapon, as it were. You're just cutting away the thoughts in order to then redirect oneself to one thought toward God. And it's in doing this. What he describes is this inviolable activity of the heart that eventually becomes the norm, where one is not distracted by those realities, even though they might surround us. And so, some of the fathers describe it as walking into, you know, a room filled with people and seeing the beloved across the room. And there's all this activity between yourself and the beloved that you keep your eyes fixed upon him, despite the distraction. And at times, I think this is very much what our experience is like. And it can become disconcerting at times when waves of thoughts come over us, or things arise out of the imagination or the unconscious that are disturbing to us. So, there is something humbling. And so, you know, when you say, you know, it can be a little disturbing, you know, this not realizing that the mind is where it needs to be. I would say good, because in that there's a humbling that takes place. We realize how swiftly the mind can turn away from God. And for how long it can be turned away from God as well. You know, I mentioned, I don't know if it was in the Evergatinas or in this group last week, or somebody sending me a message through Facebook, or I sent them a message to see how they were doing. And they clicked on an emoji that was the angry face emoji, but they didn't respond. And immediately, it like pierced like a needle so quickly, like vane glory or self-esteem, I began to become anxious over whether or not I missed something. Was I neglectful of that relationship? Did I wait too long to reach out to this person? And now in reaching out to them, they're saying, finally, you know, after a year, you decide to write me a note, you know, I could be, you know, and I thought, well, maybe they were ill. And it turns out it was a mistake. The next day she wrote this beautiful response and, you know, described, you know, telling me why she'd been away for so long. But I think this is what, you know, Cali's referring to, and what John is talking about, that we really have to foster at times with a force. And it's hard for us to think of the spiritual life in that way. But sometimes we have this sense that it should be spontaneous, or that it always should be filled with these feelings of devotion and warmth. When in reality, there are times that we have to force ourselves to engage in the prayer, to move away from the distracting thoughts, because we are engaged in that moment in a warfare, or simply with our own weakness, our own tendency towards distraction. So, you know, the Jesus prayer can be challenging, because it's non-discursive meditation. And so there isn't the consolation that often comes through images, through ideas that we would have if we were meditating upon a certain scripture passage and allowing ourselves to enter into it and imagine, you know, what was going on in the hearts of those who are listening or imagine or being attentive to what we are thinking at that moment. The Father's more often than not practice this non-discursive meditation, because it draws us into this experience of God as he is in himself. So, it's this invitation to walk in the darkness of faith into this encounter with love, with divine love, into a sweetness that is beyond our imagination or our understanding. But to do that, when we are engaging especially early on in the spiritual life, can be difficult, because if there's no consolation in that moment, or we see very clearly almost highlighted our tendency towards distraction, we can sort of get upset and wonder, you know, if we're doing the right thing in the spiritual life, is the Jesus prayer what I need to be praying? And, you know, there's nothing wrong with meditation that uses imagery, and that would be akin to our understanding of Lexio Divina. You know, all these things help to stoke the fires of pai devotion, earth longing for God, and so serve us very well. But in the end, I think the Father's also understood that we are, there's a capacity there for delusion of being falling into the seat of the evil one, that he plays with our intellect, imagination, reason, and that ultimately these things can't take us to where the heart longs to go, which is into this encounter with the living God, not only our idea or our perception of him, but as he is in himself. It's a difficult path to walk because at times we can wonder, am I praying at all, or am I drifting into insanity? Is this real? Is it bearing any fruit? And so this is why I think we have to read the Father's to be encouraged. Don't step away quickly from it, allow to bear fruit in its own time. David writes again something of interest on the editing. We do educational conferences, and if more than 15 seconds of silence passes, we lose 15 to 20 percent of attendance. A-H-A-D or is it ADHD? Apparently it has become the norm. I think so. I think it, and I think part of what contributes to it is the rapidity of images, ideas, noise, there's no space to allow for real creativity to emerge, to allow the mind to wander, or to simply be in silence, to be attentive to one's surrounding. We would become afraid of silence. But isn't that fascinating that you would lose 15 to 20 percent of your listeners or viewers, if you allow that much 15 seconds of silence? And just to add, they're all highly educated masters, degrees, or doctors, all of these people that attend their conferences, and they still don't have any patience. Just amazing. That's fascinating. And I think it's also, it has a huge impact upon the spiritual life. It's often said that hurry ruins poets and saints. This speed with which we make our way through life cuts off something important for creativity, or something greater than ourselves to emerge, which would be intimacy with God. And so if we are rushing through our life, if we are so tightly scheduled, if our pace is frenetic, and even the way that we enter into prayer is dutiful, making our way through all of our devotions, it's really not allowing that space for us to listen. And we've often talked about the Carthuzian who describes silence as a place where it allows God to speak a word that is equal to himself. So if it's silence that allows God to speak this word to us, that draws us into his very life, and communicates who he is in himself to us, if we cut out all that silence from our life, then we become less than human beings. In a sense, we reduce ourselves to the level of beast, in the sense that we aren't making use of how we've been created in the image and likeness of God to experience ourselves as well as that relationship with him. And certainly we cut out also these other opportunities for the expansion of mind. Like as I said with poetry or art, writers often find their greatest ideas come to them when they have stepped away from the typewriter, and they're looking out the window, sipping a cup of coffee, and all of a sudden something will come to mind. And then the, you know, the muse, you know, takes hold, and then they write 20 pages. And but if we block out that silence, those things cannot emerge. You know, it's interesting, isn't it, when you think of artists, I had an uncle who was an artist, and I had some uncles who were, what do you call them, like sportsmen or games, you know, fishermen, things like that. Those things all have an enormous amount of silence in them. If you're a painter, you often spend, you know, hours and hours by yourself engaged in the act of painting. And I can still remember the greatest, and I want to say the last peaceful, purely, well, naive experience of peace I had was I had just graduated high school, and I hadn't started college yet. And so it was like April or May, and my uncle was a game warden up in State College, Pennsylvania. And so I went up for a week, and he had to work. So I'd go down the stream, and I'd spent eight hours, and maybe I'd see another fisherman. And, you know, for a young man, that's sort of an unusual experience, but it's still a vivid memory for me 40 years later, as having a kind of sweetness. So at every once in a while, I'll post the photo online if you've ever seen it. It's a beardless knee and jeans and waiters, but it was this extraordinary experience. And we have to get back to that. I think I mentioned when I was at the monastery, I could hear the wind blowing through the pine trees, and the time the hawk flew over and it flew over so low that I could hear the sound. And when you live in the city, Oakland of Pittsburgh is the noisiest place because we have the hospitals as well as all the universities. And it is deafening, and you lose all of that. And so following John's lead here, you know, we don't have to go to the desert, but we really need to learn to prize these simpler things of life. And it's hard because we're formed at a very early age to pursue things, you know, at this rigorous pace, not missing out on the things that are needed to get us ahead. I just saw a little commercial of, I guess, Sling Dion, you know, the singer, she had some health issues and things like that. And I just caught a little fragment of this interview of her and it was within her son asked her, if you could go anywhere that you wanted, you know, a country or a state, where would you go? And she paused and she said, well, you know, very well, I've been all over the world. And she said, but looking back at it, I saw nothing. And she said, it's the price you pay, you know, that she was this great star all over the world performing to all these countries, all these beautiful places. And she has no distinct memory or love of any of those particular places enough to create a longing for her to go back to them. That was the price of her fame, but also that frenetic activity. And so something extraordinary was lost there. And I think when we pause and maybe when we simplify things in this way, we begin to grasp a little bit about what John is saying here, that that silence, that stillness with God makes all of the things that we just talked about seem small in comparison to what that intimacy and that encounter with the living God is like within the silence. And so we want to hold on to it as the most precious of things that we are willing to sell what is necessary to obtain it. And so we might give up a lot of opportunities in our life or certain things that other people take for granted and do to have silence. Now, for the introvert, it's easy for me to say, well, I'm going to stay home with my dogs. You know, that's my preference. You know, I love my dogs and a few people. And otherwise, you know, I'm not too interested in going out to the movies or to a restaurant. And you know, that's probably not a great virtue on my part, but that's who I am. But it's, you know, it doesn't create this urge to get out there. And but we have to create space to hold on to it. Number 47. Engaged in the middle tats, that is earnest prayer, I was among the middle orders and an angel enlightened, thirsting as I was. And again, I was among them. And when I asked, what was the Lord before He took visible form? The prince of the heavenly host could not tell me, for he was not allowed. So I asked him, and what state is he now? He replied, in the state proper to him, but not in this our state. I asked, what is the meaning of the standing and sitting at the right hand of the father? He said, it is impossible to be initiated into these mysteries by hearing the human with the human ear. I there upon implored him to lead me where my longings drew me. And he said, the hour has not yet come because the fire of incorruption does not yet burn sufficiently within whether I was then with this clay I know not, or out of it, I'm quite unable to say. So, you know, this is what I mentioned earlier in terms of John's experience that he has this long within him and this desire within him, but it is also being used to pull him into speculating about things that then can become a distraction for him. St. Paul saw this in his communities too, if you remember, in the scriptures where they begin to ask him about the nature of the the resurrected body, they want to know, you know, what will that be like? And basically, Paul in the end tells them, stop asking, because there's no way for us to know exactly what that is going to be like. And so, it becomes a distraction, an empty speculation. Keep your focus upon where it needs to be. And so, John is told by this angel that, you know, the fires that purify the heart do not burn sufficiently hot enough to purify the heart so that you can gaze upon these divine things that your work needs to be, where you need to be attentive to, is in the ascetic life. And purifying yourself of the impediments that become an, those things that become an obstacle to your heart's desire. So, let your focus remain there, not with imagining or questioning what those realities are like, what is above you. And we'll often do that. You know, it's, I think, most of conversation today is on the level of theology, liturgy, ecclesiology, you know, it's academic, it's notional, rather than experiential. And we all know what the fathers describe this as, demonic theology, that our theology should arise out of this experiential knowledge of God through the ascetic life, through giving our hearts over to him, of purifying the heart of all the impediments of our vices, of practicing, unceasing prayer. And even then, one, you know, may be illumined by the grace of God to see and perceive those things, but often without the words to articulate them or beyond expression. And we talked about, you know, John of the Cross writing in poetry, because, you know, he could not capture, you know, in other ways of writing what he experienced was. And his detailed explanation of his poetry was really for the nuns that he might describe this journey, internal journey of the spiritual life. But it's initially, you know, captured in poetic form in the form of poetry. Let's see here. There's an orthodox priest, Father Bonabas, who, Barnabas, who says, we're not your thoughts. That's really good when thoughts weigh lay a person like, like hoodams. That's right. And it's an important thing because we can become discouraged by that. We aren't what we struggle with. And we aren't even our sins. And the saints even aren't their virtues. If you remember, one saint said, the virtue that we see in the saints is the least part of them. What we see, what we're able to comprehend, is the least part of them in terms of what God does within the hearts of saints by his grace. And so we have this tendency to be reductive in our thinking about ourselves, to categorize, to label. And there's something that is diminishing about that. We know that even true is true in psychology. When you say somebody, well, you're a borderline personality, then you are giving them this label, then that they use as an identifier that they become this and all that entails, rather than a person who is struggling that needs healing through, you know, because of the traumas that they've experienced, they are not their diagnosis. And sometimes it can be the worst thing to diagnose a person like that. And since similarly, I think it, you know, with these thoughts to see ourselves as defined by them. And so many of the saints were upset by this. They would have these, you know, thoughts that were very disturbing and clearly sinful, you know, in their content and wondering why they're having them and be distraught and feeling that they are, there must be some great sin within them that is getting rise to them. And often they are asked then, and by God's mercy, well, did you give yourself over to them? No, I fought against them the whole time. Then you bear no burden of responsibility for them because they're part of the spiritual battle. The spiritual battle is highly psychological. And one would say almost mostly psychological for us. It's with the mind. It's with the thoughts. And how we perceive and thought, you know, all that comes through our senses, all the stimuli that we experience. David writes, I was taught to see it as waves coming in from the shore for the Jesus bear, which really helps, does have a soothing repetition that is similar, right? You know, the breathing at times can go along with that. The posture can be helpful as well. Human doing not being. That's right. There's this often this emphasis on what is done rather than who the individual is. Lori writes, sometimes women saying the Jesus bear must say it slowly and loudly when having distracting thoughts until ease of sigh. Yes, to verbalize, to involve the senses, to make frustrations. All of these things can help us direct our thoughts and still the mind. And there is a book out there. I wouldn't recommend it as beginning reading. It's called The Watchful Mind. And it's written by an Athanite monk from the 1800s. Same time the filiculio is produced or put together in any case. And but he describes it's almost a kind of journal form scribing his experience of the practice of the Jesus bear. And he talks about at the very beginning to have this kind of intense force of attention on the heart itself. And to say the words of the Jesus prayer with as much devotion and as deliberately as we can to focus upon the center of oneself, the heart itself. And to start with, you know, doing that 10 times in order to warm the heart in order that then the Jesus prayer might flow more fluidly for us. And the same thing can be done through reading, you know, the life of a saint or reading the scriptures, something to warm the heart. But I think even how we take up the Jesus prayer, you know, there has to be this sufficient investment of the self, you know, of love, of devotion, of urgency that's directed, that directs it to the very center of our being. Dave Warner writes, silence is also the domain of software programmers, poor souls. I often feel for them. Although they do get absorbed with, you're right, that intensity of quite a few friends in the field. And it's true. Once they get in that zone, they're there for hours. Anthony writes, in Lercara, is it Fridi? Is that how you pronounce it? Sicily, the town was so silent in Siesta that I could hear the pigeons cooing, you Italians in your Siesta's. John actually talks about napping in a few paragraphs here. So we'll have to see what he has to say about that. But yeah, it's interesting when you slow things down, you know, there was a room build at one of these universities that pulls out all sound altogether, to the point that people can become very uncomfortable within it can only stay in like for 30 seconds, because you can hear the blood shooting through your veins, pulsing through your veins. And that's how intense the silence can be. And I've often dreamt of what it would be like to be in one of those rooms. Maybe I would find that distracting. I don't know. Jennifer, an affable internal journey. Right, there is no end to this. And nor do we need to fear about being, you know, the one alone that moves ourselves in it. You know, again, we have the spirit within us that elevates us, that lifts us up and draws us along. Let's see. God calls us by name, the devil by our sin. We are not defined by our faults. Absolutely. I wrote in my Bible when I was 15 years old, even in my biggest mistake, I am not a mistake. Wow, that would be an important thing for a 15 year old to tell herself. Because often, you know, there are these wounds where one comes to identify themselves with them. Uh, Kate writes, I find that the time I am most vulnerable to distraction is after receiving holy communion. Sometimes the Jesus person only thing I can grasp hold of. So it's not to be swept away by the distractions. It's quite a battle sometimes. Excellent point. And you know, the saints tell us over and over again in our preparing to receive the sacraments to take upon ourselves extra devotion, because we are about to receive that which is precious. So not only to prepare ourselves to receive that well, and that it might bear great food for us, but also to take up a greater period of prayer and devotion following receiving holy communion, because we are almost guaranteed that we are going to experience a more profound temptation to undermine the gift that we just received. And so, you know, priests should really work hard to provide this opportunity after communion. You know, I'm not going to get in any long discussions about this, but you know, often churches will, you know, break out into the communion, while people are receiving communion, and then while they're making, you know, while they're praying in silence. And, you know, the Latin right is really conducive to silence. And so that's the last thing one would be doing. But there should be this period of being able to make thanksgiving, to be attentive to what one has received. There should not be an obstacle to our lingering in the love of Christ that we've just received, because we know that the evil one is already going to seek to disrupt that with thoughts of what's coming during the day, or the brunch that we're going to, or yadda yadda, you know, all the other things that come to mind. And so, the priests really should foster within his parish silence, absolute silence within the chapel, both before the liturgy begins and afterwards. And he doesn't have to be a brute to do this. This is forming a habit of mind, a habit of virtue for those who perhaps have never been exposed to it. And so, gently over the course of the years, to help your congregation move to that so that nobody comes out to shake your hand. You don't need to be shaking people's hands after a liturgy. I'd rather have people be remaining with the Lord in prayer and lingering with him than shooting the breeze with me outside the chapel. And, you know, the places that really where it was most fruitful was where it happened organically, where we had perpetual adoration. And so, we had the Eucharist exposed right up until we were ready to begin the whole Eucharist. And either we would have benediction, proposed the Blessed Sacrament, prepare the altar, and then have Mass. And then after Mass was over, the Eucharist would be exposed for the hours throughout the remainder of the day. And this really shaped the heart and the mind of the entire community. And, you know, who picked up on it the best? It was the students, the younger ones. They intuitively understood, okay, you know, this is where we silence ourselves. You stay, you know, down, make your act of thanksgiving. But it took a long time, I think, to help a whole community. And gently saying, if you need to have a conversation, you know, can you please do it outside of the chapel? People are trying to make their act of thanksgiving here. A priest doesn't have to be mean about this, but consistent. And even more important, an example, you know, he has to be the one who's in the chapel in adoration or praying before the liturgy, and has to be the one who lingers then to pray and make his act of thanksgiving. The same thing with parents. They have to be that example as well. And when I first became Catholic, many years ago, that was a little bit of a scandal, people receiving communion and walking out the door of the church. And the disconnect for me there was just like, that does not make any sense whatsoever. You will receive the Holy Eucharist, and then you're making a beeline for the door to get to your car to get out of the parking lot before everybody else. It does not make any, any sense. And so this is where, you know, our understanding of Christianity as being an ascetical religion, and allowing the mind and the heart to be formed by the teachings of the fathers, to learn to foster the silence, to exercise our faith where we understand that silence allows this space for intimacy and for God to speak the word that we need to hear on that given day. Okay. And I think I just saw the questions. So any, any final comments before we wrap it up? Again, so quick. I don't know why. I'll slow things down. We'll have more time for silence. At least a 15 minute pause here and there, 15 second, not 15 minutes, 15 minutes might even be much for this group, 15 second pause, I think we'll be okay. So thank you everybody. And while we close, as always with our father, name of the father and of the son and with the Holy Spirit, Amen, our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be done, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us to stay our daily brain and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. The Lord be with you. May I want to God bless you the father, the son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. So peace, thanks be to God. Thank you all. Thank you all.
