(upbeat music) - When it comes to Mitch Marner, I mean, I don't know how to say that any more clearly than this. There was a, you can write it in Sharpie and underline it six times. There was a 0.0% chance that Mitch Marner was going to be the next captain of this team. For one, we'll just look at his current situation and he's been sort of, if not publicly, and certainly privately, he seems like the odd man out. And it's really just more of part of it is his own situation is the reason why he hasn't been moved to this point. And two, I think there's been a healthy dose of friction there. You've seen it publicly on the bench. Between him and his teammates, he's definitely not, I can say for sure, he's definitely not the most popular Toronto Maple Leaf in that locker. That's, that's that. So that wasn't, there was, that was never on the table. That was never a possibility. - Come sign, agree. - Fan morning show, break-cutting Matt Marchese. That was Frank Sarah Belli on a little program I like to call. - Fan morning show, yesterday. Thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed the chat with him. Most of it focused along the lines of Austin Matthews and well, I'm now speaking for myself, not Frank. What a glorious day it will be today when they hand 34, a nice leaf jersey with a big old sea on the front of it. Matthews across the back, a three and a four. Oh, it's going to look wonderful. But of course, that naturally leads us to, but what about Mitch Marner? Like all things in the country lead to, but what about the Leafs? All things with the Leafs eventually lead to, but what about Mitch Marner? Frank Gunning, Matt Marchese. How you doing, Marchese? - I'm good. And I mean, aside from-- - I was going to say, do you need, do you need two seconds to vent before we get into like hockey, hockey? - I'll literally be two seconds. - Okay. - When there's traffic at 5.30 in the morning, the city has jumped the shark. - Okay. That's all I need to start. - All right. - Like the fawns. - Yeah, anyway. - So that is the, that's where we're going to start things off today, the Mitch Marner of it all. It is, it's so odd that a player gets named captain and a lot of the discussion goes to not that player. And honestly, not even all of the discussion was around the guy who lost the sea or capitulated as I'm going to reference it going forward in John Tavares. I think it's naturally led a lot of people to kind of trying to figure out, now the hierarchy of the organization is weird on a team, right? There's, this isn't, this isn't football, where there's a quarterback that's clearly the most important guy in there. - Sure, everybody else falls in line behind that. It's kind of football in this situation. It's kind of football in Edmonton, where hey, like Leon Dreyseidel, love ya. McDavid gets taken care of and everybody gets in line behind that. It is now the case with the Leafs and Matthews that he gets taken care of and everybody else is a, I won't say second priority because guess what? John Tavares, an important part of this hockey team. Mitch Marner, an important part of this hockey team. Chris Tannov, Morgan Riley, Matthew Nye. So again, we can sit here and name and names. All these guys matter, but this is clearly Matthew's team. And I think that if you go back to the start of this era, I think they all thought of it as all of their teams. - Yeah, now it's very clearly become Austin Matthews team. - Yeah, and it's the right move. I don't think there's any question about that. He has been the best player on this team. He scores literally 40 goals in his sleep. He scores 40 goals when he's hurt. And we're at a point now where if it has felt for a while like it is, you know, a group of players teams that didn't work. That era didn't work. It's time to usher in a new era. And I'm hoping for the sake of this organization and this fan base that this is the move that helps kind of push them in that direction. I did want it. Like that clip, just a little behind the scenes look. Like when Frank was talking yesterday and he said, basically for my money, Mitch Marner is not the most well liked guy in that room. My head immediately went. And I think that I think there's a lot to be said about that. But there was, I think, I also agree with Frank. There was zero percent chance that it was gonna be Mitch Marner that was gonna get the seed. There's that we know that. - There was no way that was happening. And again, like, could you imagine? Oh my God, this. - We'd be able to talk about this for a month. - I was gonna say, you think two days of captaincy talk was a lot. It'd be two years. Like the season would be continuing. There'd be a four, three come from behind over time. Now let's be honest, like lost. They'd come from behind and then lose and over time. - Down three goals and we go. - Well, and then it'd be very easy if like, that's what happens when you name that guy, captain can't happen. And guess what? At least you're gonna lose a couple of games like that with Austin Matthews wearing to see. One thing became such a flashpoint moment. And we always make too much out of one thing. It doesn't matter where we are in life. Like if there's one thing that you can point to and say, "Dad, this is the symbol of it all." You're making too much out of that. But I think the moment that it became clear when we talk about the friction. And I think when people hear friction, they assume player in front office, rightfully so. Again, there's no contract done. There's no contract peering to be even close. So I think it's fair to say that. But people always go back to the screaming on the bench and like all the lip readers came out of like quit crying. This isn't junior, I don't know. What William Neelander yelled and who? He was yelling at that. Although it certainly looked like it was yelling at that Mitch Marner. I think that became just such a flashpoint moment for people in this market. And not that they didn't think all these things, but I think for people who already felt a certain type of way about the player, that was all the proof they needed. That these two guys are wired one way and Neelander and Marner's wired another. Again, I don't think that's true. I don't think you can just look at that moment and make it about that. But I also don't think you can understate, or sorry, I don't think it's possible to overstate what that little flashpoint moment on the bench meant to so many people in this market. - It was almost as if William Neelander was speaking on behalf of everyone else. - All the uncles that had screamed at Neelander for his whole life were then speaking through him. It's weird how it worked, yeah. - They were all like, that's my boy, Willy. As I've always said, never look at old pleats from me. Leaf fan 426 @mimico. Yeah, don't do that. - What a great handle. The thing-- - Probably is some guys. - It probably is. - It probably is. The thing is with all of this is, and I think it's the most frustrating part, is that there's a really good player there. It's just when you get them is the key thing. The other thing is that in this, whatever this contract negotiation is, if they're even negotiating, do you really believe that Mitch Marner and his camper saying we'll take the Neelander deal? I don't think so. I think that's where he probably should be. But I don't think they're asking for that. - No, and I mean, if that's what you're asking for, you could see a world where it's done. You can also see a world where it's reliving wanted to make bigger changes this year and wasn't able to-- - It was handcuffed. - And says, you know what? Just 'cause I wasn't able to make bigger changes doesn't mean I want to be locked into this forever. Now, I made the point at the time when we first started talking about this, if they sign him to an extension that has a full no move, they're in exactly the same spot they are now, except it's not one-year team control. It's seven, eight, whatever, six, whatever the deal works out to be. So I think that's something we also have to think about with this is like, just 'cause he's extended does not mean he's a leaf for eight years now. It probably does, two perfect guys. - Again, unless he has that right move. - And which I'm sure he's asking for. - Well, and he's gonna get, quite frankly, like the idea of, unless you're overpaying on dollars in such a way, player of Mitch Marner's ilk, go look around the league. He's getting a no move, okay? I know it's a very sensitive subject for us all here, but just look around the league. Like, again, Zach Hyman, God love him. He got the no move in Edmonton. - Yep. - David Camp. - Yeah, do not love him all the time. He got a no move here. So that is still the most. - Has there been a more bizarre no move clause? - No. - No, it was like, he thought it was a must move clause. He's like, and you must be traded by this point. - And MMC? - Yeah, must move. That's the other thing I keep coming back to. Do you think, and I don't know, like I don't know how long the presser's gonna be today. I don't know how long they're gonna let the questions go for, but you know, this is where you do need to have, if you're the Leafs, you need to have a little bit of that babs in you of like, all right, we're good. We answered enough questions, time to get out of here. 'Cause if it's, again, let's just spitball of who's gonna be up there. I imagine Brad's living is gonna be up there 1,000%. I think the Pelly, Shanahan thing, if I were them, I'd wanna be up there. I don't think it's a guarantee that they're up there either, though. For sure, Pelly is up there, sorry. For sure, Treliving is up there. For sure, Buru Bay is up there. For sure, Austin Matthews is up there. John Tavares better be up there as well, I think. Now, you can make the argument that you wanna make it purely about Matthews, and you don't want anybody else, but if you want this to be as kumbaya as possible, I think you need to have them up there. The reason I bring up all the guys who are gonna be up there is that we haven't got a chance to ask Brad's living questions about the off-season and what has or hasn't happened again. I'm sure they're gonna wanna keep this tight to the Matthews news of it all. It's also the Leafs. When you get a chance to ask these guys questions, you're going to. I think people keep waiting for the first moment of the Leafs playing hard ball with Mitch Marner, if that's what's happening here. And I just think we need to kind of get out of that school of thinking. I am not blind to the reality that there is, again, a huge part of this fan base that would love to see them, you know, leaking, that he won't wave his, you know, we had deals in place to X, Y, and Z, and he wouldn't wave. I think that's what a lot of people wanna see, but I also think tri-living is a realist of where he's at in this point, and that Marner's going to be on this team. And if he's going to be on this team to start training camp, he's gonna be on this team to start the playoffs. And the idea of picking a fight or having it go bad with a guy who, again, we can all sit here. I laugh at all the memes too. Okay, I love like the penalty box picture. Oh, don't anyone ever take that away from me? Okay, like we all laugh at the jokes, but you need that player to be close to what he's capable of for this team to go on and run. I just think people are waiting for the moment where it's reliving, you know, throws the opening salvo against Marner, and is this gonna be it? Are they gonna take away his aim? I don't think any of that stuff's happening. I think it's gonna be a pretty status quo year for that guy specifically. Yeah, I don't see a scenario at this point in which Mitch Marner has moved. I don't think that, but it's not just about the move. I think people would, I think there is a sub-sector people that are waiting for the, they need to be publicly aggressive with Mitch Marner. That should be a sale, but that didn't happen at the draft. That didn't happen at some, look, Brad should have even popped his head up at some charity golf tournament throughout the summer and got asked, if he wanted to do this, he could, okay? And they've chosen that's not the route to go. Which, again, the pragmatic side of me says, good job, that's actually a smart piece of business. The Leaf fan inside of me, of course, that leaves a sour taste in my mouth a little bit. Yeah, you like to, you want the hot gossip, right? Like, that's kind of what it is. We all like that. We do love hot gossip. So, there's a couple of things in that. One, Brad's living smarter than that. He's not gonna, because the player that you have, so what I've tried to figure out, and you won't know this is, who is the better player for you? The comfortable Mitch Marner with the extension of the new coach, or the uncomfortable Mitch Marner who's playing for a contract with the new coach, that may be a little bit pissed off. I don't know the answer to that. And we won't know the answer to that. Maybe at all this year. But the one thing that I think we get caught up in sometimes is that gossip, and we want to know what's going on behind the scenes. But at the end of the day, I don't think in this situation, that's gonna benefit any side here. Because, do you really want a Mitch Marner that is pissed off that is? I don't want to say not gonna compete, but not gonna give you the same, because it's that give and take, right? Like, you threw me under the bus. Do I really want to be here? Okay, and then some lead fans will say, "Oh, well, that's great." But the other side of all of this that I've been looking at, and I was very much on the train of, they need to move Mitch Marner. And obviously, it has to be a deal that makes sense. But they had to move him. As the summer has progressed, I've talked to a lot of people, and I've heard a lot of things. And the one thing that I keep coming back to is the coach. We have seen Mitch Marner play under, basically Sheldon Keefe at his peak. We've never seen him play under another coach. We can say, yes, he played under Mike Babcock. Different guy. Different player. Different as they all were. Yes, exactly, different stage of maturity. And that speaks to John Tavares with this group. It speaks to William Nylander with this group. It's everybody. Mitch Marner has never played with another coach outside of Sheldon Keefe at this stage of the game. That's where I think there is some entry here in what Craig Barouba can get out of him. Which is also why I think there's a lot of value in figuring out what you have with Mitch Marner. - Well, and there's something to the contract of it all. Like Barouba's new here. Again, like, triliving gets to be new here. Barouba is even newer than that. He get, for all we know, he was sitting there with his arms folded in that coffee shop going, buddy. Man, you're gonna have a great year. You're gonna stick it to him. And they're gonna have to give you 13. And this is all said and done. Right? Like, it is entirely possible. That's the route he gets to take. We think of Barouba as a guy who's gonna come here and he's been sitting there practicing his mean face in the mirror, which, by the way, like doesn't need much practice. He's pretty good at it. - Just look at his hockey debate. - Right, on and on. - Just click, click, click. And it's like, scarier, scarier, scarier. As it keeps going, going along there. But I think that we all think of it as this disciplinarian who's gonna come in and it's, again, Mitch Marner, it's not, this is not a guy that you have to untether from the offensive zone. This guy who plays a 200 foot game. The idea that Barouba is gonna come in here and it's just a different voice. It's a different thought. I so often think with guys at that level, with coaching, obviously there are things that are above my brain level that I can't kind of think of. But I almost think of it so much as somebody gives you a golf tip and they're not telling you like, "What you gotta do with your trailer?" It's just a thought. It's like, "Hey, front hand goes towards the target." Or shoulder, rip through the ball or whatever it is. And you're not even doing it. It's just a thought of the way you play the game. And I think that that's what a different coach, Marner has not been, I believe he's gone over once in his tenure. He's not been a world championships guy as well. And I don't say that as a knock on him, but he hasn't even had the experience. Again, I believe it's happened once, maybe twice, but of, "Hey, Doc McClellan's in my ear for two weeks over here. John Tavares just had this experience with what he can." - Look at how he played. - Right. So I think you look at it and you say that a new coach can illuminate something for these guys in a different way. And honestly, it's just get a different kind of feel around that player specifically. I think everybody else, quite frankly, Tavares aside is gonna come into camp, feeling pretty good. Like Matthews, again, we can all be upset about it. It's pretty hard to dump the series lost to Boston on him when he didn't play in a third of the games. Kneelander, same goes. Morgan Riley, Joe Wall, wasn't there for the game set. Like we can go down the list. All these guys should be for a team that did not accomplish what they want. They can all come in with kind of a clean reset. And I think Marner needs it arguably more than anybody. Just as a quick aside, because you asked about the World Championships, the 2017 World Championships, the head coach, John Cooper. - Ah, okay. - Nathan McKinnon led the team in scoring. Mitch Marner was second with 12 points in 10 games. - But to my point, how long ago was 2017? - It was a hundred years' lifetime ago. - That was probably still coaching the team. - Yeah. - So it's like Koopler. - It was Koopler. - Koopler. - So the other thing that nobody said in all of this, because I feel like we've just gotten caught up in Mitch Marner needs to be traded. And that's fine in the, like, I get why we've been there. Has it ever been thought of that Craig Baroobay walked into that room? - You better not. - And exactly, yeah, if I'm coming here, that player is staying here. Like, did anybody ever think that that was part of the conversation? Or even Brad for a living said, we're not moving that player. Because he's made the point, when you have really good elite talents, it's hard to get those guys back. So I think that there's part of this that, you know, the outside noise is much louder than what's going on. That's usually the case anyway. But the outside noise is much louder than what's actually going on in the building. And in the building, they're saying, this core group can still win. We have another year of this, and then we will reconvene and figure it out. And I know there's this longstanding notion, and I'm in this camp as well, that it's really hard to walk guys to free agency without getting something out of them, or for them, sorry. But I also believe that cap space means something. And then if Mitch Marner leaves, you have almost $11 million in cap space, John Tavares, the same thing. Like, there is another path here. We don't see it in the moment, but there's something to be said about getting the most out of Mitch Marner in a contract year. He walked for nothing, but if you've won, it doesn't really matter. - Yeah, I think the biggest benefit you can have with holding firm is exactly that, just the proof that you will hold firm. Now, Brad Shur living hasn't exactly shown that with the guys in this market. And again, I don't begrudge him. The best thing he could have done was had Austin Matthews signed to whatever deal he could have had him signed to before the season started, and we didn't have to do this. Good job. - Well, we have Newlander. I don't begrudge him signing the player, but I don't think anybody can sit there and say, well, he held firm in those negotiations. No, he was on 130 point pace and he got paid like it in the exact middle of that season. I think that the interesting thing is that if you would have taken the other tact, like if it's unfair, I mean, Marner, sorry, Newlander and Matthews were up at the same time. Matthews is not the guy you want to take that strong arm stance with, but the idea of taking this stance with Mitch Marner, if that is what your living has done is said, okay, somebody here has to kind of pay the price. And what I mean by that is I have to be proven that it is not a feeding trough. When it comes time for negotiation, I have to prove that I will hold my line on deals. It's just kind of tough when that's the last guy you're going to have to do that for. Morgan Riley is locked up. Joe Wall, quite frankly, is locked up. Maybe there's a world where Matthew Nye's explodes and then, hey, I've played hard ball of Mitch Marner. I'll play hard ball with you. But I think we all know what the Matthew Nye's deal is. - It's a great deal. - Oh, spoiler alert. It's going to come up at seven o'clock and we're talking about offer sheets next year, okay? That's where the realm he's going to live in is. It's not one where tri-living needs to take a hard stand. I think that's the other part of this that kind of complicates it, is that the guy he seems most willing to, and again, maybe it's just timing. Maybe it's other things. Maybe it's a little bit of both. That he seems most willing to kind of draw the line in the sand with. It's the last of all the big boys. You're going to have to pay. And you hope that this is a recurring problem. You hope Easton Cowan becomes a big boy. And you hope Frazier Minton does as well, but it's just you look at it and this is the last guy that's going to ring the bell in this way for this team in the very least. - Honestly, at the very least, three years time. Like we're not even having this conversation about Cowan or Minton for three years if you're super bullish on those guys. - Well, and in reality, I mean, the next guy that comes up after this is Austin Matthews. Or a guy that you can-- - Oh, no, you're not wrong. That's a great point. - Because he's got a four-year deal. You can extend him after three. - Here's something, and you'll be very happy about this. According to Luke Fox, John Tavares will be in attendance for today's press conference. - I think, I just think that's the right move. The, you don't, you want this story. It's a great story. It's a positive news story. And you want it to end today. You don't want to go into camp and no one's heard from John Tavares and all of a sudden these, 'cause the longer you stay silent on something, the more weight your next answer kind of holds, right? So the idea that Tavares goes today. He is there. He's as, you know, kumbaya as possible. Sarah Vellie talked to us yesterday about the possibility of Tavares. And is there certainty that he was going to be back after this deal? I mean, nothing has promised in life. Who knows what this new version of Tavares unburdened by the sea looks like. But to me, I think this is, it's impossible to look at this and not seeing it lay in the groundwork for Tavares trying to do everything in his power to close out his career here. Yeah, and he's, you know, he has a young family. I understand why he would want to do that. It's the team that he grew up cheering for. The only thing is is it's kind of like, put your money where your mouth is at this point. Like if you are, if you are going to say that and have that feeling, it's going to cost you some money. Like you are going to take 100%. But you're going to take way less than what you would get on the open market to stay here. That's the only way that you can stay here. And I'm not even saying like, I'm not saying he's going to make $3 million next year. But that number has probably got to be five or six. And you're probably not playing center anymore. Like there's a lot of different factors that go into it. But I agree and I said it yesterday, this is a step in the right direction in keeping that relationship strong so that you can say, okay, I'm willing to do these things. For like, John Tavares was, whether he was willing to give up the captaincy or not, whether he was told or not, whether he jumped off or he was pushed. What is it called? The mutual agreement, which is never a mutual agreement 'cause somebody says it first. Is there, do you believe there's any chance that John Tavares went to management and said it's Austin's time now? I don't think we would, it's so tough 'cause you don't know how these guys are wired. And I mean, with Tavares, I mean, literally, you don't know how he's wired, like what court goes to the CPU that makes the connection here. I can see a world where he is smart and understands the writing on the wall and is doing this just as much for the good of the team as he is to manage his own legacy. You know what is better than staying too long, leaving too early. And I think a lot of people would say, "This ain't too early, okay, fair." But I think you wanna get out before we're all having the conversation and we've been having the conversation for a couple of years now. Again, how many, you know who the real captain of this team is, and it's always Morgan Riley, by the way. It's very, very seldomly been Austin Matthews. And again, still the right choice to make him this guy. I think there's a world where at the end of season exit meeting, that's probably too soon. But does he come to them later in summer? You know, he's still the captain of the team. I imagine they talk to him a little bit about like, you know, he's not planning the sleeping arrangements for camp, but you know, logistics of camp. What do you think? I imagine all those conversations make their way eventually to him and does he come to them? It's hard for me to see it, but I also can't rule it out. What do you think? Do you think there's a world where it was his choice? 'Cause that would be John Tavares, the politician. Not John Tavares, the person and not John Tavares, the hockey player. And I don't begrudging for that if that's the case. - No, take care of yourself, take care of your own house. I've always stated that and I think that's a very good way to do business. - And a family man like him, I bet he's doing like, you know, like Vila projects all over the house there. - Yeah, and lots of laundry, lots of laundry. So I think there is a world in which John Tavares would go to manage and say that. I just don't think it's this world. - Would they, how can I put this very nicely? Shape a narrative in which that's the way it happened or does that diminish giving it to Matthews? Like if they, let's say they come out today and it's a true living, we are very honored to open to questions. And the first question is, how did this come about? John, was this your idea? Did Brad approach you? - It was a mutual idea. - But if it comes out that it is, you know what? I went to management and I feel like Matthews, I can take both sides of that argument. I could say, it's the captain saying, this guy's better at the job than me. They should give it to him. Gee, sounds pretty good. You can also see them saying, oh, did the team not want to give it to him? And once Tavares says that, the cat's kind of out of the bag and you have no other choice. Do you think it diminishes them giving Matthews the sea in any way? If it's seen as though it was Tavares kind of leading the book, leading the push on this. - If it was done by previous management, then yes, then I think you could spin it that way. - Right. - But I think because Brad's living comes in, he's had the year to assess. - Which is what? Again, go listen to anything he said for the first part of the year last year and that's all he talked about. - Yeah. And so that's why I believe that it could be, it could be a little bit of both. I think both things can be true that they could, John Tavares could say that he went to management or Brad's living can say that John came to management and we had been having discussions internally about doing the same thing in business because they like to say we collaborated on this. - There was synergy. - It was very synergistic. Oh God, I can't wait for them to drop boards like that. But if they're going to say the word synergy, I need them to come out holding the yellow one. - Oh, see, I'm a silver guy. - Yeah, no, the yellow just like it sticks out more 'cause if they came up there with a silver stick, all the olds would be like, "Is that a Gretzky Titan?" - Yeah, you don't want that. - The Gretzky Easton alum, a aluminum. - So I do believe that that's how it's going to be phrased today. I think it's going to be, John came to us, we had had thoughts about making this move, the fact that John came to us, made it much easier decision. Austin is a very deserving player and person for this job that he's taking on, which is the captaincy. Write this all down because I'm sure this is exactly how they're going to say it. - I gave a pre-take of stuff we're going to get today from someone to you guys before the show. I love doing this. I love guessing exactly what people say. - Yeah, it's going to be really good. So I think that there is a world in which both things can be true. And they can come up and say that stuff and people not believe it. But I do believe that there is a chance that both of those things are true. That John Tavares, he's the writing on the wall. He's like, I got to take care of my own house here. I'm going to go to management and management had already been having those thoughts about making that move. If it was Kyle Dubas this year as the GM making this decision, then I would have a different opinion. - When do you think, 'cause I'm as guilty of it as anyone, when do you think we'll stop saying that? - If this was Kyle Dubas' team, 'cause we're not, I feel like that will be precious little with Sheldon Keefe this year. Greg Buroube might have one like test-tasking of the team publicly. We go, whoa, Sheldon Keefe wasn't doing that, although he kind of was towards the end of his tenure. But that's neither here nor there. I can't help but look through so many of these leaves move still of how would this have been different? What would have played out? And I know it's just a matter of fact, like time moves on. Eventually we can't farther and farther away from things that nobody Dubas has ever had any dealings with his here. But how long do you think it'll happen before we keep looking at it through kind of both prisms? 'Cause I'm just as guilty of it as anyone. - Well, as long as there are still kind of pieces around that maybe Kyle Dubas brought in, like John Tavares would be atop that list. There's also the, and you made the reference to Brad Trilliving could only do so much because of the situation he's in. - Well, he's in the situation he's in because of the previous regime. So I think that, I think it until like, Austin Matthews is starting this new contract, that's a Brad Trilliving contract. William Leland under the same thing. - Brad's, yep. - So now Brad Trilliving has made his bed with those two players. Once we figure out what the future is for John Tavares and Mitch Marner, then those are gonna be Brad Trilliving's moves. Like Chris Tana of like all of them. So I think, so as time goes on, yes, it will change, but I think that's probably after this season. - Okay, couple other things before we transition to Jayce 'cause they played a baseball game last night. So we'll talk about it. - They got a star now. - We'll talk about it here, okay. Settle down. Save it all for 6.35, so settle down here. John Tavares, we talk about the, everyone keeps throwing out like the Joe Pavelsky deal of like three years at, I don't know, some number that seems fair but a little insulting to John. I think is where everybody kind of ultimately ends up on. That's all well and good if he has 65 points. Again, this year. But this was a guy that couldn't score in the power play to save his life. Pretty much every single one of those things came five on five. If we have a revamped power play here in Toronto and John Tavares is at not the center, but you know, a cog of one of those units and all of a sudden you're looking at a player who sees an uptick in five, 10 points. He's a 70, 75 point guy, which I'm not calling but is not out of the realm of possibility just given the splits and how everything went for him last year, I think that's the way this tenor of this conversation really, really changes. Now ultimately, I think if they have team success two bars ago and it doesn't need to be win a cup, but if they have real tangible run, conference final, something along those lines, I think that pull will be too much for him to look elsewhere but him having just a regular power play season for him and the exact same year that we complained about all last year could very well change the parameters of the negotiation 'cause you could see somebody else going, I know he's 34 and he'll be 35 next year with this deal kind of kicks in turning 34 and just before the preseason starts up in September. So it'll be a 35 year old, but that could change the complexion of it all as well, especially if there's another first round flame out and he goes, all right, I gave him a do. Time to get one more paycheck. It's fascinating, like we're gonna spend a lot of time talking about the marner of it all this season, but it's fascinating to think about that with the bars. - Totally. And I'm glad you pointed out the power play part because we saw signs of that struggle even the year prior. And I was kind of hoping that they would move him out of that spot, maybe move him to the second unit. But he's, you're paying him 11 sheets. Like he's great on the draw. That's the other thing to complicate it to. - And especially 'cause they like to use Matthews on the point, especially on face offs and Matthews is one of your best face off guys as well. So I can see that I do think that a change will help him. Maybe, I don't even wanna say a different spot on the power play 'cause that's probably where he belongs. - Oh, he has to be your like net from bumper guy. He just has to be his hands are too good. - Yeah, and so- - And he's strong, quite frankly. - I think a lot of it is just how the power play went down the stretch. It was, you know, some of it's luck. Some of it is just, you know, you're gripping the stick too tight. And that's why I keep coming back to this idea of what is it like with John Tavares in a different role without being the captain and not having to answer questions all the time. Like that takes a toll on you. Like that's a lot of gray hair moments for you. So I'm very curious to see how that comes up. We got a text here, which is, and you'll love this. - Okay. - From Gordon Bracebridge. Why wouldn't John Tavares take the Jason Spets, the type of deal and stay in Toronto after his contract is over? Well, because he's a 65 point guy, Jason Spets is not that. - Yeah, it's one thing like Spets was having like two million bucks waved in his face by the stars. It's a little different when some team's probably gonna. So I bet some team, you know, again, if those numbers continue and he has a year, 70 points, you have 29 goals last year, okay, that somebody's gonna say, hmm, two times five, sounds great to me or three times five or whatever it is. I could easily see that. Or the one year kind of big deal, especially as the cap goes up. I'm sure a team would love to have that as a placeholder. - Utah would love that with their young guys coming up. There's lots of teams that are coming up that would like John Tavares and their law. - Yeah, I don't know, like the devil's in third line center, crazy or crazier things have happened. That's where I'm shipping everybody now, just as I want to live in my own misery. All right, I actually thought we were pretty fair to Mitch Marner in this first block, but there was one thing that danced around in my head and I can't unthink of it, so we're just gonna unpack it here. If you gave him the like men in black stick and he could give it to all of us for one moment, would it be crying in the box or would it be Neelander screaming, you know, quick crying or whatever it was, he yelled at him. Like which one of those would Mitch Marner just loved up from the public sphere forever? - I think it's the Neelander one because it's the thing that everybody was thinking and he knows it. - I don't disagree. I think though, the problem is is the crying in the box is just like it's too, it's too useful a meme. Like we can't post the like Neelander with his like, his hair in his eyes or whatever, with his arms up, that isn't the visual. We all know the moment when we see the full like video, but I think that's why he would go with the crying in the box just 'cause it gets used far too much. So there we go, that's my answer on that. Hit us up on the text line if you have a good answer on that 590, 590, please include your name and location. Standard data and message rates may apply. Blue Jays, applying their trade on the left coast this week, some late night baseball and as Matt said, a star, I don't know, it's August. We'll find out Blue Jays chatter will continue on Fan Morning Show on Sportsnet 5 Night of the Fan. (upbeat music) - Dive deep into Toronto Sports and the NFL. The JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) - They call in the field scene. - What? - No hit by pitch. Toronto will do their job. - Wow, that was a little bit of a slight cry. - No, no way. If I'm George Springer, I'm getting ejected from this game. - And now he has been thrown out. And now Schneider's about to get thrown out. It's getting hot here now. And George Springer, the face of the whole play up by Amanda Gonzalez. And he has to be restrained by his manager, John Schneider here. Vladimir Guerrero comes over as well. And Springer is still trying to get out the whole play up by it. - I've never seen George Springer this animated before. - I mean, I don't need to see the replay. I know it hit me. I'm not gonna say it didn't hit me if it didn't hit me. You know, I want to hit, you know, that doesn't matter how I'm doing individually. I know it hit me in the front, but it is what it is. - George isn't gonna look into the dugout and say he got hit if he didn't get hit. It's pretty clear from our view that he did, you know, maybe there wasn't an angle in New York, you get it. And, you know, I thought it was, you know, there's no need to throw George out there, you know, he was kind of walking away and gathering himself. That was kind of, I think, why he reacted the way he did. - You know, again, I got to be better, you know, there's, there's the kids in the stands and there's kids walking, I can't get that angry. You know, I don't want my sons to see me, you know, to get them at, so, and I got to be better. But it happened to this, what it is, and it's not anymore. - George, come on, come on, George. I was on your side, I'm sitting here like, yeah, that's right. For once I judge neither, saying all the things I want him to say at the end of a game, and maybe the Blue Jays won, so I kind of know maybe a little easier to not have to address, you know, another loss, maybe it makes you sound a little smarter when you do that, but I'm sitting here, I'm like, yeah, that's right, George is a man of honor and truth. He would not, would not look in the dugout, me might lie to you, umpire, but those are his brothers down there. He would never look in the dugout and lie to us, and then I hear that after a look. - There's children in the-- - No, I mean, like, whatever, California's children. - None of them, none of them. - They're different. - None of Blue Jays' fan children, they're all way tucked away in bed, asleep in their beds, and guess what, also, when you're right, you're allowed to be indignant, occasionally, especially if you're just, I mean, it's just an ump, give it to them. So, test, test, George Springer, I was all ready to be on your side. Again, a man of truth and honor told his brothers, he got hit, he wouldn't lie, and then he goes on and talking about the whole, won't someone think of the children? Take a hike, get out of here with that. - Now, you have to wonder what the umpire said to set George Springer off of all people. Yeah, it was-- - You know the first thing I thought of was, you're not a good lead-off hitter. - Yeah, I got a slapshot reference as soon as it came away. Cheese, red, what can I say to them? I told them this, and then I'm not gonna finish that. But that was, like, when I'm watching this and I'm like, George Springer went absolutely banana sandwich yesterday, and that does not happen from George Springer, who's one of the most calm, cool, and collective guys. I would love to see how many times George Springer's ever been thrown out of a game. I can't imagine it's very often. But they get another win granted against a bad baseball team, but those are still fun to win. You're starting to learn some things, and it'll be it, it's very little, but I think we can pretty much put Spencer Horowitz in this lineup in Penn now. - For sure. - I think that that's there. Will Wagner is gonna get to the Hall of Fame before his father. I think we can pretty much put that in Penn. - All right, settle down. - Is there a leak tougher than this for Will Wagner? - I'm not done complaining about the George Springer. You know why he was, you know why he was so mad? 'Cause he actually got hit. - An object at upward 90 miles an hour got hurled at his toe. Have you ever, I had the other day, I dropped like a phone charger, okay? And the prong of it, like the piece that goes in the wall, it fell perfectly in the crack of like, I think it's called the cuticle, I don't know much about nails, but like where the nail meets the foot, and I started screaming bloody murder to the point that my wife is like, did you drop a knife on yourself in there? And guess what? Like my toe was bleeding, it plitted open. - That's pretty good. - That was a phone charger falling for, I don't know, three feet, how high is the countertop? I have no idea. Imagine 90 miles an hour on the toe. And then, like the only thing that would've made me more mad than that moment is my wife to go, "Oh, suck it up." And that's basically what the up was saying to George Springer, so I think he has, it doesn't matter, the up could've said anything. You know what he said? He, just like John Schneider said, he's a George Springer's a man of truth, and the up call them a liar, how dare he. So yeah, that's why he was mad about it all. - How about John Schneider, just totally throwing New York under the bus, it's like, well, from our vantage point and our angles, it looked like he got hit, but I guess they don't have that angle in there. - You know what? - They have all the angles in every angle, although if I was baseball, just to like quiet the managers down, and this is not a, or shut them up, I guess a better turner phrase. This isn't John Schneider's specific thing, but I'm gonna start like embedding GoPros into these managers caps. It's like, oh, you saw it? All right, let's see. I'm gonna pull up the video right now and see exactly what you saw. - Let's see what you saw. - Careful what you wish for, 'cause we all remember the early days of like NHL Ref Cam, remember, when we got those awesome, we get like in the Douga, or in the World Series, they usually give us like the, I call it the Earthworm Cam, where they, for some reason, are like, what would an ant think of this bitch coming in? That's what we need next is like Schneider Vision, we need it on his cap so we could see exactly what he saw. - Is this a center for ants? It needs to be at least three times this size. - Three times this size. - Yeah, that is such a weird angle, but there is something to be said about George Springer at this point still playing. - I love it. - To win, and he's still laying out there trying to make plays defensively. He's getting fired up after feeling like he was hard done by, which I think, I mean, the tape says he was. So I think that's something that's good, especially for some of these guys that are coming up and trying to learn what it's like to be a major leaguer, but do the wins and losses matter at this point? - No. - But is there something to be said about still trying to play through this and being a professional? Yes, especially for a guy like George Springer who, let's face it, beginning of the season, not great, but he's played through it. And I think that's something that younger players can really feed off of and learn from, which is, I guess that does help you in your evaluation process of some of these guys, like how do they react to some of these things? Because if that happens to a younger player, maybe not the same reaction, but you should feel hard done by in that situation and you should show that. So I think George Springer showing that. I think there's some value to that. - No, that's good. I think that's well said. You do want to see him kind of still in the fight. If you want to see yourself at Budweiser stage, the iconic Canadian rock band Blue Rodeo will be there Saturday, August 24th, along with guests, Matt Mays and Begonia to celebrate. We've been giving away tickets all week long to enter. All you have to do is tune in to the fan morning show. Listen for the code word, then text the code word, 59590, standard message and data rates may apply. Today's code word is Canada. Text Canada to 59590 right now for your chance to win. We're giving away another pair of tickets tomorrow, but if you don't win with us, make sure to secure yours on Ticketmaster.ca. You mentioned some of the guys that are, I won't say more a part of the future than George Springer because he can be as long in the tooth as he wants. He's going to be part of the team's future kind of one way or another going forward. But obviously, you see Vlad, he's staying hot. Sorry, Spencer Horowitz. Sorry, Will Wagner, that's more important than anything, is Vlad continuing to stamp home this season. Kevin Gosman with another nice start. I think it's just important that you see a return to form or continuing a form for those guys. 'Cause again, we can be, you can be the world's biggest, you can be his dad, you can be the biggest Willy Wagner fan, you can be the biggest Spencer Horowitz fan. Those guys will not matter more to next year's team than the best version of Vladi for sure, but even the best version of Kevin Gosman. - 100% and that's where, you know, it's important for these guys to continue to play like this because I know there's time off between, you know, the end of the season, especially when it's going to end very shortly for the Toronto Blue Jays and the beginning of the next season. But you should have something to build off of from that. And I know it hasn't been all rosy for both a guy like Kevin Gosman and Vladigarero Junior, but they've shown glimpses. And Kevin Gosman has, you know, cobbled together a couple of really good starts of late, which is something that would be nice to build off. And I know there are people out there but yeah, but the games don't mean anything. But they do, like they do mean something. They're not nothing. Like they're not just showing, it's not beer league. They're not showing up and just saying, "Hey, I'm just here to collect and I pay check and blah, blah." No, these guys are pitching, like Kevin Gosman, I wouldn't say he's pitching for a job, but he may be pitching for a job in Toronto. - Yeah, what Kevin Gosman's pitching for is a return to form. And everybody's level for that is different. Like it's the same thing Jose Barrios is going to be pitching for tonight. He hasn't had as, you know, low will lows as Gosman has had at times this year. But he also, you know, and I'm talking about Kevin Gosman, he doesn't have five years left on his deal and, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars still left to be paid out on it. Barrios is of all the starters that need to get going. It's him in this back half of the season. Now things don't always carry over, but you just need to see some return to form. And that's not a decision-making one. Jose Barrios can be one of your five starting pitchers on this team one way or another next season. But I think for that player, you want to kind of see something to build off. And honestly, like him getting the ball tonight, again, I can sit here and talk about Wagner and talk about Horowitz and Loprofito. And whoever you want to be excited by, you know, him and again, we can sit here and talk about all those guys. None of them going to matter as much as Gosman will or as much as Barrios will. You're going to need to see Bassett having strong starts. He's been a little up and down. I mean, struggled on the weekend. Great start last week. So I think that's really honestly, we're going to be so excited about the kids and rightfully so because it's new and that's what's sexy and people can dream and who knows what they can be. But if this team wants to be anything next year with those three guys and the starters really need to. And it's to varying degrees, but kind of figure it out and have something to build on. - Yeah, they really do. Did you want to talk about, you say Kakuchi with another good start last night? There's a Jay's angle to this and it's that, is there some criticism? And not that I think that they struck out on this deal. 'Cause I think it was a good deal. But it's more speaking to maybe the pitching staff as a whole here. And that is, is there some question marks about the coaching staff and what they do with their pitchers and maybe just not recognizing things because the Astros clearly recognize something because you say Kakuchi in Houston in his first three starts there is pitching to an ERA of 2.7. - So I'm going to look at Kakuchi as, and like all roads, it leads back to the Leafs. This is an old school one though. It's like, this is an old Dabsism. - Okay, okay. - Everybody needs a good tightening once in a while. Most of you out there who got wives, you know, good tightening from your wife. Keep you in line every once in a while. And you say Kakuchi feels like that kind of guy to me. He just needs to constantly kind of be reset. He came to Toronto, it was no good. They reset him, they said it and forget it for a year at work. They weren't able to get it going. I mention all the time the thought of thinking of it like a golf swing almost. It's not, they didn't change his arm slot. They didn't change completely his pitch mix, but it's a new lease on life. All of a sudden the games matter a little bit. The pitching coach is using, probably telling you very similar things, but it's a little bit of different verbiage and it just kind of clicks. The fact that we've seen this from this guy in various different versions of his Jay's career as well, I don't look at it as a point-the-finger moment at Pete Walker and his cadre of pitching consultants or whatever. I look at it as that is a guy who clearly kind of needs to be kept on the rails for lack of a better term. I also think you don't want to make a habit of losing deals duh, but you do want to make a habit of occasionally having the two good outcomes deal. You don't want to be the team. Like again, at the deadline when this deal was made, everyone across baseball considered it a fleecing. - Math, you're going for the Jay's yeah. - Right, and you, hey, stack up a few of those. You absolutely should. That's how you build a great ball team and you build a great farm system and all that. But you also don't want to be the team, like the Rays, where every time they call you go, click, nope, there's no way this is good for me. Click, and now the Blue Jays aren't that, but I think it just bodes well for them making kind of future deals that this wasn't a fleecing, this wasn't a robbery. It seems like this could be a very fair deal for both teams. And hey, Kukuchi could get lit up in a start that matters in September and they won't be saying that. And you know, bloss and Wagner could end up being nothing. So maybe it's a fair deal and then it's nothing for both teams, but I think it's important to kind of have some of those as well. It can't just be winner, winner for you all the time. And it never is. Like nobody has the perfect track record, right? Like that's especially this for an office, but nobody has that track record. So it was just, it was, I like that you brought up, you know, pitching when the games matter and you know, you're kind of just, you're on, you're locked in. And maybe that is the answer for you, say, Kukuchi. Have you ever thought of, and I don't think it's possible, a potential return to Toronto for you, say, Kukuchi? I always thought the sweet spot of his performance and what his price ended up being was just not going to kind of match up with the Js. I thought there was a world where a super depressed market, Blue Jays are like sitting there at the end of free agency going, man, we're going to do the Baden Francis thing again. And maybe there's a world where you have that, but I don't know. He's kind of pitching his way out of it. Well, that's the problem. That's exactly it is that people have short, short memories and a couple of big starts in September where honestly, like one big start in October is going to change people's minds. And it doesn't take 100 teams to change their mind, right? It takes two. And then all of a sudden you're very much out of the Kukuchi sweepstakes. I think it'd be fine with the return. I just, I can't imagine the needle being threaded to where it all ends up. Yeah, and I think they're at a point now where they're going to be bringing up some younger arms next year. Whether it be, like, I feel like Yariel Rodriguez is, and that's a conversation we can have even tomorrow, about his future with this team and what his role is. But also, you got to figure that the way Jake Blosses really come through the minor leagues, that he's probably a major league pitcher. And I know he made some stars for Houston this year. And they're going to want to see what Ricky Tiedemann is. And I mean, they're going to sign free agent pitchers. So I agree. I don't think he's coming back. Yeah, what I do, what I think you also agree with me on. I don't know, maybe this is a bridge too far for you is. A bridge. We got the two sexiest words in sports. Offer sheet yesterday. The blues laying down the gauntlet to Edmonton. Did they throw them an anchor? Did they throw them a life jacket? What does this mean for the RFAs of 2025? What does this mean for Leon Drey's title? The offer sheets lead to questions. We're going to answer them on the other side. Fam Morning Show, continue sports.
