Host Brendan O'Connell interviews guest Drew Martin (President, Mighty Motion Pictures, FathersFilm.com) about his pro-life documentary film "Fathers" still in production, men's role and decisions in abortion, abortion in a new-age pro-choice culture, & more.
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Life Matters
The following commentary does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff and management of WBCA or the Boston Neighborhood Network. If you would like to express another opinion, you can address your comments to Boston Neighborhood Network, 302-5 Washington Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02119. To arrange a time for your own commentary, you can call WBCA at 617-708-3215 or email radio at bnnmedia.org. Hello, welcome to Life Matters. I'm your host, Brendan O'Connell. Well, over the 20-plus years that I've been doing this show, it seems as if men get the short shrift on the whole issue of abortion, should a child be born or not, and we've had Dr. Teresa Burke of Rachel's Vineyard, who's written a definitive book, and her husband, Kevin, wrote something called "Tears of the Fishman," and Kevin has looked at post-abortive men whom have lots of difficulties, high suicide rates, and that sort of thing. And today we have a gentleman, Drew Martin, whose name, all the way from Alberta, Canada, and he's going to discuss a documentary film that he's put together with Leah Malousis and tell us what it's all about and how it affects men with the whole issue of pregnancy abortion and that sort of thing. Well, welcome Drew Martin. Thanks so much. It's great to be here. Yeah. It's just blessing. Drew, how did you get involved with this, what really is a pro-life, I guess, documentary, I presume it is. I know that Leah was, in college, when studying political science and a women's class and asked some thought-provoking questions. Yeah. You know, you can still go online with Leah, which was 12 years old, she started getting involved in the pro-life movement because she had a project at school in which they were supposed to speak for five minutes, and it was a competition on, I think it was a provincial level, national level. And so she prayed about it and she said, "So what should I talk about God?" And the spirit of God said to her, "Abortion." And she went, "Oh, well, I don't know anything about abortion, Father." And he said, "That's okay. I do." And so she did this amazing presentation that went viral to her folks recorded it and went viral to over 3 million people, and then she was so persecuted and threatened, in terms of her life, the life of her family, as well, that they ended up having to move four times. And so that was her introduction to the pro-life movement. And so now she's a lawyer, actually, and a brilliant woman and just has done a fair bit of work in this context. She's been pro-life and has really been an amazing factor in Canada here as a representative for the unborn. And does man's choice matter at all? Because a lot of times women say, "Get out of here, it's not your decision. You're a sperm donor, and see you later." What does she believe or what conclusions might she draw from doing this film or documentary? Well, the fact of the matter is that this notion of my body, my choice is what we're faced with on an international level and with respect to men, and of course, men have an important part to play in reproduction and creating babies with the Lord and women. And so the notion that they would be set aside or even to the point now where men have caught that why, taken it up, and said, "Oh no, I'm actually going to honor women by impregnating them and then giving them the choice to determine whether or not they'll keep the baby or not." So Leah has done an incredible amount of research in this area, and so she was a tremendous partner for the film. And so the word that she's bringing really through interviews, obviously, with men and experts that are involved, and directly involved in this context, is amazing. It's always – I find it's always a learned – I'm a co-writer and director on the show, and it's always an amazing process in that we are listening to God in terms of what He wants to do, and then He opens these doors that no man can close. He sets up interviews with people that are exactly the right people at the right time in terms of the world and the culture. And we marvel at the depth of what comes out of these people's mouths, even though we have them there because they are experts or there are people who have had personal experiences, so that's certainly her experience in hours enough, and after an interview and go, "Well, that was the God, that was amazing." Well, let's take a look at that clip of Lea chatting and imposing some very interesting questions. So I've been really interested in the issue of abortion for a long time. When I was 12 years old, as part of a school project with a competition that was attached to it, one that I really, really wanted to win, I was required to write a five-minute speech, and because we could write about anything we wanted, and that was just too many options for me, I decided that I was going to pray and ask God what topic to write about, and He suggested the topic of abortion. "What if I told you that right now something is choosing if you were going to live or die? What if I told you that this choice was a base on what you could or couldn't do, which you'd done in the past, what you would do in the future? And what if I told you that you could do nothing about it? The students and teachers, thousands of children, are right now in that very situation. Someone is choosing without even knowing them whether they are going to live or die. That someone is their mother, and that choice is abortion." When I was 16, I started thinking about men and abortion. Part of that was that many of my friends who had had abortions were starting to tell me what their experience was, and were sharing with me that they had been coerced into making that decision. So, I was thinking a lot about men's role in creating a demand for abortion, but also a pressure towards making that decision. And then I started my undergraduate degree in political science and women's studies, and it was very clear that from a feminist perspective, men had no place. They had no say when it came to the question of abortion. But then I started law school, and in law school, it was made clear to us that men are required to take responsibility, especially when they've helped create this child. There are obligations that come with creating a child, and that's appropriate. But then I was asking this question of what is the role of men then if they have the responsibility? What rights do they have that correspond with that responsibility? What is their place in the question and the issue of abortion? Over the last few years, it feels like the abortion debate has exploded, and between the language of my body, my choice, and no uterus, no opinion, men have been pushed entirely out of the conversation. And so now that I'm a lawyer working in the areas of family law, constitutional law, and human rights, I set some time aside to make a documentary exploring the connection between men and abortion. This documentary, in many ways, gets at some of the core elements and aspects of being a human being. First, our ability to procreate and continue our existence, and second, the relationships between men and women, and those are things that are going to be part of our lives for the rest of our lives. For a long time, this issue of abortion has been framed as being about choice, specifically a woman's choice. And I guess the question I'm asking is, does his choice matter too? If fathers are always going to be part of our lives, then what is their place? Where do they belong? My hope is that by speaking with experts and advocates on both sides of this debate, together we can answer the question, how is framing abortion the way that we've been framing it, impacting men and women alike? And is there a way we can shift the conversation and discussion to make space for the voices of the fathers? Well, Drew, I guess these types of questions, are they answered in this particular film? Yeah, absolutely. We should know that we're still in production on the film, and these are, as Lee has expressed, these are the themes that are being explored and revealed, and I think the other huge element of the film is the men who have gone through abortions and the different kinds of effects it has had on them, and that were detrimental. And so those are really powerful of course, and I think that it gives what's really important is that in this time when we're living in this world culture that is very dismissive, and actually a culture, as we know, when things like this happen where you're hearing a fundamental attack against the core of relationship between men and women and the design of God for us to have relationship with Him as men and women that are created by Him and the miracle that He made possible for us to then within Him create life. And when that core of our existence is being attacked so vehemently, you just kind of shake your head, and I always call it the shaking of your head, it indicates that it's ridiculous, but it also indicates that our battle is now with flesh and blood, it's against principalities and powers and rulers of darkness and spiritual wickedness in the high places. And so fundamentally, it's the devil, and we go, that's why it's so ridiculous, it doesn't make sense, and yet it appeals to the core of men and women who are fallen from grace. They're in a situation where they're separated from God, and they are living a prideful, self-preserving life, and so what's important is that God is on the throne, and He wants to speak His truth in love, and that's really the spirit behind the film, and so in that, of course, that's why so much of the truth is being revealed in the film, and I must say that that's absolutely what Leah's heart is, is that we weren't trying to present it deliberately from a Christian perspective, or even though we're Christians, and it is very much a Christian perspective, we don't go into the word, we don't go into sort of a religious rendering of why this is bad, and what it should be, because our desire, and it really felt, was God's heart, was to bring the truth into the culture, into the world, for people who would watch it, as opposed to just being dismissive, because it's like, "Oh, it's those Christians again, and, you know, they don't know anything, and they're just religious, and automatic," so that's why Leah brings, and the fact that she's a lawyer, and that she's a woman is important. Right. I often felt that the word choice, which is a Madison Avenue advertising word, in about one and every ten commercials, is meant to bamboozle a public, and I guess, and now Planned Parenthood is dropping the word choice and using reproductive freedom, words like that, and is it, these people, I guess, do you have to frame it with certain short, quipped lines that, on the pro-life side, that would hopefully influence them to change their minds about how they look at men post getting pregnant? I think that the pro-life girding of the film is obvious, you know, I think that, you know, it's, again, it's not, it's not presenting a, and this is why being pro-life is so important. You know, it is, it's inherent in the, in the theme of the film, you know, that obviously, you know, that, that we're revealing the beauty of life and, and God's plan as it relates to men and women and obviously children. Could, did men suggest to Leah or to yourself how it could be framed in a better way so that they're included in the decision about their biological child? Yeah, well, you know, we did quite a bit of research beforehand, of course, and, you know, it's interesting that you brought up Kevin and, and we interviewed him in the show and, of course, Brad Matts and, you know, that some of the biggest pro-life leaders in, you know, North America on the subject. So that's, that's where they, we let them bring the, the Christian perspective. And so, and strongly is, you know, like, what's really great is, is that, again, those guys just bring a spirit of wisdom and revelation, you know, as opposed to it really sounding like dogmatic, you know, or religious because it's, because when you meet these guys and what they're going through and then you look at the culture and bring that into it, then it actually gives some understanding to what's going on. And there are a lot of women say, well, he, and of course, a lot of times when there is an abortion, the boyfriend/girlfriend break up, it's a, it's an, you know, it's a terrible thing that that happens, but it does, is it, is it, is it all surrounded with just people of very selfish and, and how do you get them to be not as selfish? Yeah, well, you know, we're living in a very self-centered, very new age kind of culture, right, where, where the individual is God, right, and, and our, our decisions are all right. It doesn't matter what we decide in, and, you know, we can, if I want to be, identify as a woman when I'm a man or vice versa, right, or I, you know, the, the, I, if I, I want to be able to do whatever I want to do, and it's, you know, it's, it's my life and forgetting me, of course, they, you know, our next breath, our next heartbeat is not our own, and then that ought to be a humbling experience, you know, but, or notion, but we don't think that way because we, you know, think that, well, this power to be is all ours, and so we should, we should be able to choose whatever we want without any ramifications, and that, you know, the wages of standard death, and so not only to, I mean, as, as decisions are made that are self-centered, then it actually brings on death in your life and, and not life and, it brings on sorrow and sadness and frustration and, and all kinds of other detrimental things in your life that, that come with just being prideful, fundamentally. And do you think men, when you interviewed these men that are post abortive men, does the word responsibility come up much and, you know, that, you know, they have a responsibility to the child that's been created, or do they just kind of blow it off? Well, I, I think they, they, in many cases, they blow it off because it's, it's a convenience culture, and so, you know, this is, this is going to interrupt my life, you know, we hear about women who want to have abortions because they have a future that, that they want to be in control of, whether that's in, in an occupation or school or whatever, but, but men go, well, excuse me, they're, their whole trajectory can, can be interrupted by, you know, this huge responsibility going forward if they, they take them, you know, take the role of father. And so, they, they often just reject that because they can, because there's a pathway made for that in our culture, and, and with no, without any second thought, and certainly without any ramifications with their friends or family or others saying like, really, like how can you do this? Like this is wrong. And so, I, I think that on the other side of things though, there are men who did try to convince the woman they were with to keep the baby and that they would come alongside and help and marry them. And the women said, no, this is, this is my body, like this is my choice, this is what I'm going to do, and those men were utterly destroyed, because they, they did what was right. They wanted to, to come alongside and be the man in the situation, and that's hugely problematic. And then, I, you know, the other scenario was that they, they actually find out later sometimes that that's what the woman did, and they're totally devastated because they weren't consulted. And, and then the other one of the other scenarios is of course that men, I, excuse me, were, that they basically coerced a woman, which is the number one way in which men are involved in, in abortion, that they, they pressure women who want to have the baby to not have the baby because it would mean that it would, you know, she may come after him for, for child support or, you know, and, and before that, of course, pressure him to try to, you know, take responsibility and marry her, and, and so they find out later that this woman just made that decision, and then they go, well, oh my God, you know, or, or that they were coercing her, as I said, and, and pressuring her, and then afterward they go only later on their lives they go, oh my God, I, it was because of me that my baby died, that my daughter died and my son died, and I'm to blame them, and that's used to problematic mentally for them, that they go through a lot of pain and suffering. We just have about a minute and a half left, and I had heard a statistic, I think it's somewhere between 85 to 95 percent of abortions are with women that are not married. What about women that are married that decide to have an abortion? Did you look into that at all? Yeah, and, you know, it's, it's interesting because, of course, that, that creates huge stress in the marriage, you know, because here they have created life together. And as a man who's, who's got given responsibility is to love that woman and then love his children, when they do that, then you go, like, there's just a break in, in their relationship and the core of their relationship, which is love, and also a woman honoring her husband and his decisions and his input in their lives, and certainly the life of their child. So yeah, we look at that as well. Well, now, when, when do you hope to have this project finished and how can folks find out about it? Is there a website? Yeah, the, you can go to www.fathersfilm.com and we're will posting updates on what's going on. We've just finished a film with Abby Johnson called Unthinkable, which is going to be released in theaters in February. And so, so we should be fitted, we're expecting to actually release fathers theatrically and through churches and pro-life organizations who want to do screenings as we're doing with unthinkable soon after that. So, and in short order, we're going to have through mighty distributors, our distribution company, the opportunity for people to sign up and start thinking about screenings for fathers. Well, thank you very much Drew Martin for coming on the show today all the way from Alberta, Canada, and I was about a mile or two away from Alberta a couple of weeks ago in Saskatchewan. But we appreciate your effort and look forward to viewing fathers and also unthinkable. Both, both projects really are, are needed and timely. Thanks so much Drew Martin for being on the show today. Thanks Brandon, bless you guys. And we folks, we hope you found today's show to be unique and formative content rich truthful and thought provoking. Thanks for watching and listening. My name is Brendan O'Connell, your friend for life. The preceding commentary does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff and management of WBCA or the Boston Neighborhood Network. If you would like to express another opinion, you can address your comments to Boston Neighborhood Network, 302-5 Washington Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02119. To arrange a time for your own commentary, you can call WBCA at 617-708-3215 or email radio at BNNMedia.org.