Rappin' With ReefBum
Guest: Vincent Chalias, Coral Farming Pioneer
(upbeat music) - Rapin' with ReefBum is sponsored by champion lighting and supply, Polo Reef and Fauna Marine. - Hey, what's up everybody and welcome back to another episode of Rapin' with ReefBum. I'm your host Keith Burklehammer. So tonight I welcome back a very special guest who was on the live stream a couple of years ago by himself and then also with the Jake Adams tribute show. Vincent Chalius, Vincent welcome back to the show, man. - Thank you for inviting me. - It's always a pleasure. - Yeah, for those that don't know Vincent, he is a marine biologist who is a coral farming pioneer. He is also a diver and a passionate underwater photographer. We're gonna see that photography a lot of that tonight. He's shared a lot of photos from his dive trip or trips I guess in the Red Sea. So I'm really excited to go through all that stuff. And I'm gonna, I told Vincent before we got on, just before that I'm gonna be butchering the scientific names. So this is gonna be a shit show in terms of my pronunciations on these corals and fish, but we'll have a good time with it. So, he's a photographer. He also, you know, so he's utilizing that photographer to help document corals and contribute to photos and articles to a number of publications in Europe and the US. He set up the first Indonesian coral agriculture farms at the beginning of the century and spent over 20 years in Indonesia. Running them these days, Vincent. Is this still true, Vincent? And you're more focused on reef restoration? - Yeah. - Okay. - Yeah, I mean, I've done my time in coral farming for the environmental industry. So now I spend more time doing coral infestation. - Gotcha. - So yeah. You give me the, I spent 20 years dealing with airlines and payments and all this kind of things. Now I have the freedom, you know, to spend more time in the water. - Well, that's a very important thing. So before we start chatting with Vincent, I wanna thank the sponsors of this program. And yeah, I wanna thank them. They're really important because they mean a lot to have their support and to help foster this learning environment and to allow them to have these awesome guests on. So really appreciate them. Polo Reef, make sure to check out Polo Reef's new YouTube video that drops this Friday, part two where Andrew discovers mysterious white spots and many coral colonies. Oh, it calls for an emergency dive in the aquarium, join them as they try to figure out what is happening and also check out part one that dropped last week. Make sure to subscribe to their YouTube channel at Polo Reef for video drop notifications. Champion lighting and supply besides being a place for hobbyists to purchase saltwater aquarium supplies online, champion lighting is also a wholesale distributor for many popular brands. If you own an aquarium store or an aquarium service company contact champion lighting through their website at championlighting.com to set up a wholesale account. Todd and his crew will be at Restock Chattanooga on August 24th and 25th, so stop by and sell out. And then finally, Fauna Marine, I do use the Fauna Marine ICP total test kit, which gives a quick, accurate and easy overview of over 90 water values and reef aquariums for macro elements and trace elements of pollutants. You get a complete overview of corresponding dosage and action recommendations. I am now a certified Fauna Marine ICP test advisor so if you want help interpreting results then select reefbomb.com. Well, select reef bomb. All right, so Vincent, you told me you're on a, you're not actually in Valley, you're on an island off of Valley, correct? Yes. Yes, I have a project in the south of Buddy where we planted 170,000 calls. And here to check out how everything is going before we plant the next round of 10,000 calls. So yeah, I'm organizing, you know, the planting for another 10,000 calls. How long does that sort of a project take to plant that many corals? Oh, the planting goes quick, you know, I mean, 10,000 calls would be done in a month. We have, we employ local communities here and we give them the opportunity to restore their own reef. So that's fine, manpower is not an issue in Indonesia. The difficulties, the long, the growing process and making sure everything is fine, you know, every time there is a big storm, you need to go there out there, you know, and clean the mess and remove parasites such as the propeller or call of town staff is, make sure the boats have moorings, you know, so they don't go out the anchors or all these kind of problems. Yeah. So yeah, it's very, it's not, the corals are fine. They growing very well, it's not, it's just making sure, you know, that everything, there is no destruction, no other external things that come and disturb this. I can imagine there could be a lot of, a lot of things that potentially could upset the corals, but I'm assuming that you do have, you know, some that don't make it, but hopefully the majority do. Yeah, yeah, we have pretty good results, you know what I mean? We can, you can check our work, you know what I mean? Like, we have, before, after pictures, you know what I mean? It's very happy, I mean, I'm doing 25 years working for the aquarium industry, you know, going fragments of, I mean, going corals, I know to select the good location. I just went, let's explain the folks. It just makes things very easy when you, when you select the right place. So let's, let's just quickly explain the folks where we're saying comments about the roosters they're hearing in the background in the, in the motor view. Yeah, you're, yeah, it's, it's, we're all in Asia, you know, they have roosters everywhere, sorry about that. The ocean on one side, you know, and the rooster in the back. It's early morning also, you know, so they, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're crawling, they're, they're crawling for the sun that's coming up there. Yes, I mean, the sunrise was just 30 minutes ago, you know. So, yeah, okay. Well, they'll calm down then and later on the show. Yes. So we're, this is a really cool thing, man, because you're, I mentioned all the photos and, and what have you that from your, these were several dives that you had done on the Red Sea to document corals and, and some fish that a lot of the stuff we haven't seen in the hobby, right? Yes, so I mean, I spent the, the last two months planting 50,000 corals in a Red Sea. So, so I got to handle a lot of Red Sea corals and I got to drive the, the Red Sea, you know, which is a very, very different environment than what we have in Indonesia. It's desert next to coral reefs. While here we have rain forest next to coral reefs, you know. So in Indonesia, you have a huge input of nutrients all year long and the water is never very, very clear. While in, in the Red Sea, you have no rain, no nutrients entering the system. So it's very, very, very different. Here we have very large colonies of corals. While in the Red Sea, everything is minimalist, you know, the, the maximum size you're going to find, like, it's two meters. So what, what in Indonesia are you, is it? I was going to say, why, why is that? Why, why is it? It's not your priorities of more than 10 meters. It's food, it's all about food, you know, I mean, like, the water is clear and the Red Sea is just no nutrient, no food. Even the fish are smaller in size, you know, I mean, like, yeah, I, I dove yesterday here and I was finally, you know, some real size fish, you know, some proper size fish. So yeah, because there is, there's not much nutrients getting into the water through rivers. So, so, so the, the, the corals and the fish are starved a little bit in the Red Sea. Interesting, you know, so I was reading something posted on the Florida Marine website. It said there's ongoing shifts in water temperature and nutrient availability and, and I read in this research article on that website that the southern half of the Red Sea turns in nutrient lead and water from the Indian Ocean rises to the services and, and inundates coastal reefs. This influx of nutrients isn't enough to damage the reefs by itself, but when combined with a temperature extremes, it can be deadly. Can, can you talk, talk to, does that have something to do in terms of? I mean, different kind of nutrients, you know, I mean, when you have a rain, you know, it brings nutrients, minerals, you know, from the, from the shore, you know, and this quickly transforms to a fito plankton bloom, you know, and, and then after you have the, the whole chain of things, you know, but after you have DOC, you know, that, that can create pollutions and can create problems. So there is this, it's, it's, it's complex, you know, the story of nutrients, you know, but if it's the right nutrients, you know, it's usually very good for the calls and if it's the wrong nutrients and it's, it's, it's bad. But, but, but yeah, I mean, in Indonesia, you know, I mean, you have rain all the year, you know, I'm every everywhere. So I've seen reefs right in front of rivers, you know, I mean, it's not always the best, you know, when there is too many rivers, obviously there is not many reefs, you know, but when there is small rivers everywhere, the reef benefits from that a lot. And you see a lot of life while in Red Sea, you know, I mean, like there is, I don't see those rooms of life and I don't see those huge irrigation of fish like I see here. Right. It's very interesting. Rob of St. New York. And yeah, go ahead. I don't know why, you know, just the size of calls, you know, it's just so much smaller there, you know, it's hard to find any calls, you know, bigger than three feet. They saw me, you know, few, you know, but here in Indonesia, you know, it's just everywhere. It's just giant calls everywhere. While over there, it's, there is, there is none. It's just small pieces of calls everywhere, you know, it's very colorful. The reef in the Red Sea are very colorful because it's dominated by pink, porcelot pore, damecones, and a style pore. And then you have blue pore details and some few blue aqua pore on top, you know, so it's very contrasting. It's very colorful. While in Indonesia, it's more shades of brown and dark green. So it's more colorful there, but yeah, just the size is not many people. So you're saying that the reefs there at the Red Sea are healthy. They're colorful. It's just basically the size because of nutrients. They're not getting the same kind of nutrients, perhaps, as they are in other areas like Indonesia. Yes. Yes. I mean, it's the Red Sea is what diversity is. That's what they told us, you know, like a reef thrive in places without any nutrients, you know, in very poor water. And then you come to Indonesia and then you realize that there's a lot of nutrient, but also there is a lot of flow here, why there is no flow in the Red Sea, you know. So this is what makes it possible, you know, that actually to absorb all these nutrients, you know, maybe, you know, I think that's, that's the main reason, you know, it's a good, it's a simulation of high nutrients with a lot of flow. While in the Red Sea, there is no nutrients and no flow. What, you know, it's when you say low nutrients, is there like a general level that you can say in terms of nitrates and phosphates and the Red Sea versus indo? I haven't tested any water yet, you know, I mean, I just been there for two months, you know, and we didn't, we are, we are on the contract, you know, and then we have to, we have some targets to reach, you know, so we are running after the targets. I know it's 33 degrees Celsius over there, which is very, very warm. So we have to stop at least because there is a bleaching going on. So we have to wait until the end of the bleaching before we can start working again. But, but I don't see, you know, I mean, huge, huge algae issues there, you know, so I don't think, I mean, when I talk about nutrients, you know, I don't think of nitrites and phosphates. I think of more ammonia and other form of nitrogen, you know, and then directly, you know, nitrates or phosphates. Right, right. So it is a different form of nutrients, I think. Got you. I want to thank Rob upstate New York for that super chat. Thank you very much, Rob. Comments, love the show. Vincent, is there a donation site to help your work? Do you have a site that people can donate? It's called Ocean Gardener, you know, I mean, Ocean Gardener.org. We have a website, you know, you can go and support us there. Oceangardener.org? Yes. Got you. That's the one. Intrinsic Reef is asking, in a previous interview, Vincent mentioned that he was sick of the tenuous, the bifurial demand. Has that craze died down on any of his on his end? No, I think it's still, I mean, I'm not, I'm not very involved with the aquarium trade at the moment, you know, but I can see still the same thing, you know, tinnies, millipoa, and torches are still the bread and butter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's cool, you know, I mean, it's, I have no problem with this. You know, it's a lot of species, you know, like Antosirsis, you know, that are popular, you know, but it's still the same thing. There is nothing new, you know, I mean, as when I look at the website, you know, it's still the same calls, you know, that are popular that they were two or three years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I don't think it's, it's getting very, very complicated to go and look for new, new calls, you know, I mean, apparently, you know, the, the, the wild calls from Indonesia is going to be shut down by the end of, by spring next year. Okay. The last, while Indonesia calls, you know, will come in during spring next year. And then after that, you know, it's only going to be my culture, you know, and it's very difficult to go and look for exotic species or exotic calls, you know, and, and put them into production and wait for two years before you can sell them. It's getting very, very complicated to look for anything special and, and, um, um, skier, sailor, biker, are there other interesting and exciting corals out there in Indo that we don't see reaching the aquarium trade, I guess, depends if colorful or if they get found. Uh, I think there is still a, I think there is still things, you know, that need to explore, you know, I mean, they're just not in the very shallow water or they are in places which are a little bit far away. But I think there is still some very interesting things that are not entering the trade right now. Right. And, and, uh, so when's that ban going into effect? Oh, it's not the ban, you know, I mean, it is, it's just that, yeah, they, they extended the wild kota, you know, until 2024, you know, so this year is the last set of wild kota that are, I mean, maybe, I mean, it's Indonesia, everything's possible, you know, so maybe they're going to, I'm not involved with it, you know, but the last news that I got, you know, that, yeah, it's the last year. Yeah. So getting back to, I think it's a good thing, you know, because, uh, I mean, nobody's going to be able to import wild kota anymore, you know, so people will have to fund them, you know, and it's going to bring value, you know, to the core farmers. Right. Right. Yeah. Now for sure. So, so, yeah, it's a good thing. So, all right, getting back to the Red Sea, you know, um, it's unique, right? Because there's a lot of corals in the Red Sea that can't be found anywhere else. And I read that as much as 14% of the Red Sea corals, fishes, and the mollocks can't be found nowhere else, you know, so why, why is that the case? Why is it because of that whole nutrient, the low nutrient, low flow type of thing? No, it's, it's because during glassation event, you know, during ice age, the level of the Red Sea, when the water level was 100 meters lower, the Red Sea was isolated. So, for many, many years, you know, when the temperature was cold, the level was 100 meters lower, and then it was completely locked. So, there was no, no exchange with the engine ocean. So, a lot of species, you know, kind of evolved by themselves within the Red Sea. So, this is, this is something funny, you know, I mean, because when I look at the fish, even fish that you can find there and you can find in Indonesia, for example, like, like, I always take the six line glass. It's, it's a good example, you know, if you look at the one in the Red Sea, they are just so much more colorful than the one that you find in Indonesia. All the fish, it's, it's, it's what I enjoy the most so far, you know, I mean, I'm not very impressed with the corals. There are some few species that are interesting, like, uh, a copoa and preachy, vailosa, squirrels, uh, there are those three species of a copoa are very colorful and very pretty, you know, but otherwise, the fish are just very, very colorful, you know, they're just very, they are very striking compared to the fish in Indonesia, you know, so even the species that I'm used to seeing in Indonesia, when I look at them in the Red Sea, you know, I'm like, wow, they aren't steroids here. They are just so much more colorful than, than they are. And I don't know if it is because of the Ayur salinity or it's, it's a, they are being separated or it's, if you look at the genetics, you could actually separate them from the one from the Indian Ocean. But fish in the Red Sea are definitely more colorful than the fish in the rest of the Pacific. A comment and a question, Messiah Mitra in Red Sea, the light underwater was a bit greenish and very clear, which was very pleasing for the eyes, at least in my experience. Is that, uh, is that your experience? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, the water is definitely a lot clearer than it is in Indonesia, you know, so, so the visibility is much, much better, you know, so it's, uh, it's nice to, and, and the coral formation also a lot different because there is no current for two things, you know, first of all, the corals have a much denser skeleton that the one in Indonesia, they are very hard to cut. So we cannot cut them, it's called a cutter, we need to use hammer and chisel because their skeleton is denser and because there is no current, so the, the reformation can manage to form some very high columns, like 10 meter height, skinny columns, you know, going out from the sea floor all the way to the surface, you know, this would be knocked down in Indonesia in because there is so much per call and, and the calls return is not as dense. Gotcha. Uh, they will be, this would be knocked down very quickly in Indonesia, but over there, you know, they keep on growing, you know, so the, the, the, the scenery, you know, the, the landscape, you know, underwater is actually very interesting in the red sea. So a couple more questions, uh, Heron Aquatics, Keith, please ask Vincent what he, what does he see the future of the hobby with bands and etc. Could he farm in the Red Sea and provide those to the industry? Oh, this, I don't know, you know, I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't think there is any country, you know, around the Red Sea that we allow, actually, uh, export for aquariums. Really? It's, uh, I don't see it, you know, I mean, uh, yeah, where I am, that's definitely a no, uh, on the other side, in Egypt side or in a smaller country, like Djibouti, you know, maybe, you know, but, uh, yeah, somebody would have to go and invest, uh, in call farming and, and to be honest with you, you know, they, it's not profitable, you know, so he's, uh, he's not profitable enough, you know, to, especially, you know, I mean, like, you would sell, you know, and maybe 100 colonies of each call, you know, and then after everybody would frag them in the, in the, in the western world, you know, and, and then that would be over. I mean, there is calls, you know, I mean, like the, the, the meal cast, you know, for us, coming from the Red Sea originally. Oh, yeah. So there, there are some few, there are some few calls that are, or the Red Sea, and it's a perfect example, you know, because just a small frag of, of Stylophora from the Red Sea that went into Europe, you know, and then end up in all the aquarium all around the world. So, uh, Chris Carney's in the house, what's happening there, Chris, says, hey, Vincent, uh, you got the meclies, uh, Chris and Amanda, Amanda says, no permits available, um, for hard corals from the Red Sea. Yeah. Yeah. Um, did I miss anything? Shame. Yeah. There are a lot of interesting calls there. So here, here's an interesting comment question from John, right? The question is, why do we want more rare corals when we have so many gorgeous ones available? Are we looking for the unobtainable? There's always something, right? It's, it's humans. Yeah. It's the human thing. We always want more. Yeah. Always want what is more difficult to get. So, yeah, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, and then people always pay high price, you know, for things that are difficult to get. Exactly. So we all kick for the early grade. Yeah. Um, so this is, uh, this is an incredible, um, no good of information. It's estimated that nearly three fours of all species inhabiting coral reefs worldwide have yet to be discovered. Is that an accurate number? Is it even higher in the Red Sea? How much did you see that? How much did you say quarter? 75% of all species that have yet to be discovered. That's, uh, I read that, uh, I think in that same publication, I don't know. No, no, I'm sure there is a lot of, I'm, I mean, the mesophotic zone, you know, like below 60 meters, you know, is, uh, is unknown, you know, to, uh, so there are many species of mesophysics. There is a lot of, uh, reefs, you know, that are mesophotic, you know, that we can find below 60 meters and that we don't know about. But three quarters seems a little bit eye to me. Sounds high. Okay. Yeah. Sounds high. Sounds high. But, but I'm sure there is a lot of species, you know, that from, from deep water areas, you know, that are still unknown to science. Chris Carney is asking, are the skeletons denser in the Red Sea because of the availability of minerals? Yes, I think so. You know, I mean, this is something that I experienced already in coral farms. You know, I used to keep my coral farms, you know, I mean, that are salinity, uh, to increase growth and, uh, it would just make things coral more coral full. And so I used to keep the salinity always a little bit higher. When you say higher salinity, what are you talking about? So I used to keep at 36 gram per liter instead of 33, you know, so yeah, 36 to 38. Oh, wow. That's, yeah. And, uh, it's easier to keep the minerals high and, and, and, and the coral's kind of enjoy it. Of course, it's not good for the fish, but because they have to, uh, spend more energy, you know, to keep fresh water into their body. So, so the kind of, uh, I mean, if it's healthy fish, it's not a problem, you know, but if it's a new coming exhausted fish, you know, then it's going to be a little bit, uh, hard for them to adapt. But, uh, if it's, if it's, it's, it's, it's okay, you know, but yeah, for course, it's, I have salinity is always a little bit better. What, um, in terms of, um, identifying new species of coral is a lot of it taxonomy, uh, taxonomy and DNA testing. Does that come into play when trying to identify new species of coral? Yes. So there is, there is, uh, many issues regarding this. So first of all, now to identify new species, you have to go through the taxonomy and you have to go through the genetics, which kind of double the work. And so it's already complicated to go through all the minisium collection and see, you know, what specimen, you know, is available, you know, there and there and compare the taxonomy, you know, is a specimen, you know, from all around the world. But then on top of, you have to do this, the genetic, knowing that the genetic every 10 years kind of is revolutionized every 10 years, you know, so you have to use the genetic that was done 10 years ago, you know, cannot be used, you know, again, 10 years later. And after, you know, there is one question that is very important. What is how many different DNA do you need to separate two species? Yeah. So, so to create a new species, I mean, to identify a new species, you need to have the taxonomy, you know, that have show some differences and you need to have the genetics, you know, that show some differences, you know, so it's a bit tricky, you know. Yeah. That's, that's a complicated thing. And, and it's, it's changing too, right? There's some species that have been re-, are being reclassified. Yes. So, I mean, I took that picture of this macropharingodon, you know, in, in the Red Sea, you know, so I forgot the name of it, you know, I'm, yeah. Macrofo-, macropharingodon, maris buri, maris buri, sorry. Is that, is that a picture that you sent me? Yes. Yes. So, so you have in the Indian Ocean, you have one macropharingodon that is called macropharingodon bipartitus, that is very similar, except there is a small difference in the, in the, in the fin, in the dorsal fin. Which one is it again? I'm going to make sure I pick up the right one. The macropharingodon. I got it. Okay. There it is. So, that's like an African leopard grass, right? Is that kind of a trade day? Yes. It's the same thing, you know, but except that the one from the Red Sea, you know, it's slightly different, you know, there is just a small dorsal fin difference. But otherwise, they are very similar, you know, and so, so this one is can be separated because there is actually an external morphological difference between the one from the, from the Indian Ocean. But if you take two-six-line rice, okay, there is one that is more colorful than the other one. But is it really a different species or not? You know, it's, it's kind of tricky. So that one is not, so these, these are not collected for the aquarium trade, but it does look very similar to what is in the aquarium trade. I mean, that's like one of my favorite rasses, the, the African leopard grass. I mean, it's a gorgeous, gorgeous, that's a, that's a male, right? This was pretty good. I forgot about this. You know, I think, I think, I don't think it's a male. I think it's a female. Oh, it was a female. Okay. That's a female. Yeah. Okay. When they get bigger, you know, they become darker, you know, if I remember properly. Yeah. I, I love it. I only wanted that one, you know, so far, you know, so that's the only one that, that I saw. I didn't see any male or juvenile. Oh, well, good. Oh, yeah. I'm still, I'm still learning, you know, I mean, I spend a lot of time planting corals over there, you know, and unfortunately, you know, I don't have so many times to go have fun dives. Uh-huh. So, but yeah, so, but every time I go for fun dives, I always find new fish and new interesting things. So let's, let's, let's, let's go through some of these other fish pictures you sent to me, Vincent, and then we can kind of go through the coral stuff. So, chromis, basic green chromis, but you've got, there's some other chromis mixed in, correct? Uh, yeah. I mean, even, even the chromis, you know, that I, I feel they are a little bit different than the one that we find here. I see when I find them mating, parading, I feel that the male have more yellow than the one we find in Indonesia. Uh-huh. So, even the chromis, you know, I think it's, they are slightly different than the one we have in Indonesia. Right. Now, it's, it's, my understanding is that chromis are susceptible to a particular disease that makes them very tough to, um, um, you know, once, once you get, um, a chromis through some retailer in the US, I guess, the disease can, can pop up or what have you, but is that something that's, yeah. It's a fragile, it's a fragile fish. It's not, it's not that easy, you know, to handle, you know, and, um, that's, that's a problem with all those fish that needs, that need constant feeding. They are hard to keep in aquarium because you cannot feed them all day long. So, so I think that's, I mean, that's the aquarium trade, you know, is actually, uh, it would benefit, you know, from having, from having better solutions, you know, for feeding cars all day long, you know, right. Yeah. I mean, the green chromis have been in the hobby for a very, very long time. And I've always had like, I've always loved to have a school of chromis and, and, and, because I feel like that's a great way to kind of like replicate what, uh, you know, reach look like in, in nature. And the trans, and, and they serve a very good purpose, you know, because they transfer food directly from the water column to within the course. So, so, so it's, they serve a very, very important, uh, purpose into feeding the course. Chris, uh, from ACI says the disease is, uh, bringing them up from depth too fast. It's possible, you know, I mean, it's, it's collecting green chromis, the problem with green chromis is that the value is, is so low for fishermen, right. But I don't think they can afford, you know, to collect them, you know, property, you know, it's difficult to collect because they go within the branch and you have to remove them from the, the co-op branches. And, and it's a difficult thing to do stress. So, so the amount of work you have to do to collect them properly and the price you get from them, you know, actually doesn't match not a good return on investment in terms of putting in that. That's not exactly, you know, it's not a good value for money. Um, it's hard for champion lighting and supplies, asking how many dives does Vincent do on an average week? Oh, I do two to three dives a day. Two to three dives a day. Yeah. Wow. That's, yeah. It depends. I mean, if, when I'm working two to three dives a day, you know, and, uh, when I mean buddy, same thing, you know, it's, uh, not every day because I need to travel from place to place. But when I'm on site, it's two to three dives. Wow. That's a lot. Yeah. All right. What about the underwater time? You know, it's the best time, you know. That's, that's the time you enjoy the most of being under, in the world world. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, that's logging a lot of hours, man. Pseudochromus. Yeah. Pseudochromus are very interesting in the Red Sea, you know, you have, uh, the classic, you know, that, uh, the flabby vertex that lives in, uh, in murky protected bay. It doesn't live in very nice call environment. And then you have the money that lives, uh, in every where there is, uh, a lot of branching calls. You see school of them. It's like a ceso, actually, you know, you see the living groups, you know, why the, the Pseudochromus flabby vertex, you know, is, is alone in solitary while the free money, you know, lives in schools. It's a stunning fish. Very pretty. You know, and, and same thing as an accessor. It's pretty similar to the accessor that I used to see, like, on a great bike. And, but they're also aggressive, right? They, they're kind of tough to keep in a aquarium. Yeah. I don't know. I never tried them, you know, before, you know, but I think if you get the one from, from breeding facilities, you know, I mean, they, they're not as aggressive, you know. And when it, when it comes to aggressive fish, it's all about feeding same story, you know. So if they get fed all day long, you know, properly, you know, then they, they tend to be, uh, if they have space and food, you know, normally they're not as aggressive as the, uh, if they are, they don't have space or not enough food. But yeah, I think they, they live in rms, you know, so they, you have probably a dominant male, you know, and then a lot of female and some dominated males. Got you. The flabby vertex, I'm sure this one is very, very aggressive because I never seen them. I mean, you see them, you see one every couple meters. Oh, really? That often kind of keep their own territory, you know, so they, they, for sure are very aggressive. All right. So this is one of my favorites, the, uh, the red sea purple tank. Oh, yeah. That me too. That's a kickass fish. Exactly, you know, that's, that's a very, very pretty fish. I mean, both of them, you know, even the dishardini, the same thing is very pretty as juveniles is, uh, but yeah, the, the, the purple tank is, uh, it's, it's not as common as I expected, you know, expected to see many, many of them, but I haven't seen a large school of them. You know, I see once in a while, you know, some few adults together and once in a while couple juveniles, but they are very skittish fish, not easy to take pictures of. Uh, but yeah, very interesting. Where else can, uh, purple tanks be collected? Where else are they, uh, that's the only place. That's the red sea. You know, so probably, you know, I mean, you find some, I know there is some that go out of the red sea and all the way down to Kenya, the, the north, uh, east African coast and, uh, some around the Arabian Peninsula, you know, in Yemen, maybe all the way to Sri Lanka. Yep. That's as far as far east as you can see and find them. I think they're just a, they're such a classic, um, you know, fish to have, uh, in an aquarium. They're just beautiful in terms of the contrast of the purple and the, uh, and the yellow. I mean, I, I, uh, I love to, uh, to, to, to keep them. And I guess the price went way up on, on purple tanks, but, um, I think it's well worth it. Well, I mean, Mr. Su from Balia Quarage, you know, produce them from, from, from, right, from their captive bread now. So you can find them captive bread. So this one very pretty thing is that you can get from breeding. You know, so it's a safe investment. Black tanks, where they, um, no, black tanks is from Hawaii. Right. Okay. Yeah. I don't think there is any, any breeding right now, you know, the black tanks and Jim, Jim, Jim Tang is, uh, Hawaii as well. No, Jim Tang is from the Indian Ocean. It's further down south, you know, from Mauritius and Madagascar and, uh, so in, on the, on the East African coast of the Indian Ocean. John writes as my purple tang is called Putin as he's so aggressive. I guess. Yes. Yeah. They tend to be aggressive. Yeah. So talk more about the, uh, the, the self and, um, Tang Vincent, there's, there's a couple of different varieties of the self and Tang, right? Is the, um, this particular one is going to indigenous. That's the one, the juvenile that we are looking at, you know, is de Jardini. Yes. So the adults are pretty, pretty much black. They are very dark in color, but the juveniles are very, very pretty. Very cool. Yeah. Very bright yellow fish. Yeah. I love them. Um, all right. Here's, here's a name. I'm going to, uh, this is not a Tang and I'm going to, I'm going to screw up this, uh, pronunciation. The, uh, the macropharynid, jodon, microfangodon. Yes. My risk would be what's, uh, what's up with this guy here? That's, is that a butterfly fish? That's basically the African, uh, African version, you know, of microfangodon. The red sea version of the, of, uh, microfangodon by parties. Is that a rare fish? That's the, yes. Yeah. It's a rare fish. You know, I've only seen one, you know, that's only one I've seen, you know, like, I did probably 50 dives in the red sea. So, so yeah, that's the only one. And that's, uh, so I would assume that's pretty, uh, rare to see in going into the aquarium trade. Uh, I don't think there is anyone coming in the aquarium, you know, I mean, this is one of the few, yeah, because, because the difference with the East African one, you know, is so, so, you know, you know, that most of the people, you know, don't kind of differentiate them properly, you know, so doesn't justify a price difference. Gotcha. Um, this is a, uh, a gorgeous, um, fish. Okay. That, that was Soma, uh, Rapolle. Yes. Did I get close to pronouncing that correctly? Yes. Man, that's like, freaking incredible. Yeah. It's, uh, I mean, like most of the tell us Soma are very pretty fish, you know, but unfortunately they are very, very, very active, you know, so it's, it's complicated to keep in a quiet, you know, they, they do a lot of damage. Like, so they, they'll eat coral. Ah, they eat all the fish. They will bother streams. They will, uh, they will bother snail. They will, uh, they always active looking for food, you know, and they, they not, they follow you underwater. When we work underwater, when we fry calls, they actually come and eat all the crabs and all the small rubies that the calls and everything. So, so yeah, they are very active, very aggressive and eat anything they can find, you know, so in aquarium, you know, they can do a lot of damage, I think. Um, it's just striking in terms of the, uh, the markings and that fish. That's just, uh, unbelievable, man. Um, here's another, um, yes, that's the one, you know, we talked about just before, you know, it's, uh, it's a small doggy back that is also probably very aggressive, but very pretty, always clear, so it has a, so when you, when you, you find them underwater, you kind of hide and seek with them, you know, and they come towards you and look at you, you know, and see what, what you're doing, you know, they, they keep their distance, you know, but they always checking, checking out on you, you know, so, so, it's a nice, I'm hoping, I'm hoping that I didn't screw up some of these in terms of the, uh, the, the, uh, showing the photos and the file names and all that stuff. I don't know, you're not, you're probably not watching on YouTube, but I know I'm, but I have the picture. Okay. All right, open, you know, look at the picture, but, uh, I apologize because so many mentioned it was not what we're looking at the wrong fish, but, um, that's probably my bad. That's the case. Um, all right. This is a beautiful, uh, angel fish, the, uh, pome, canthus. Pome, canthus, maculosus. Yeah. Yeah, so that's the red sea endemic. I mean, same thing or so, you know, you can see it, you know, on the East African coast and all the way to Sri Lanka on the other side, you know, but it's originally, you know, red sea endemic, you know, very, very, very pretty angel fish. And same thing is a, is a very curious fish, you know, so, it will come in. So when you, when you see one, you know, don't chase it, you know, you just, uh, try to hide yourself, you know, and look at it and then it will come to you and check you out. Um, big, uh, big E.S. says Vincent is a legend. His photos are so amazing. It's true, man. A, uh, photography is just incredible. Yeah, that's, that's my hobby, you know. That's your thing. I mean, it's not very artistic, you know, but it's, uh, it's a lot of, uh, yeah, ID pictures. I do ID pictures. But yeah, the, the, this, this angel fish is actually a very, very nice one. I, I, I very much enjoy it. So they always live in groups, you know, so there is like always four, five individual, you know, living together with a male, with some few females and then some subordinates. And yeah, it's, it's, it's always nice to find them. They're not very, Amanda says it's called the half moon angel. Yes. I, um, I assume that that's not a reef safe, uh, angel fish. Probably not by the look of the mouth on that thing. I could, I could probably say that I wouldn't want to have that in one of my reef tanks. Yeah, it's not a good idea. Um, all right, especially for LPS, you know, in the, in the Nacopo, I think, you know, you can maybe get away with it if it's very, very large. But if you have a lot of, yes, you know, it will go for it. Um, Lyritell anthias. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, that's, that's a classic, you know, I mean, like, uh, endemic of the red sea or so. I mean, it's, uh, we have a species that is similar here in the, in the, in Indonesia, but it's not as colorful. That's, that's a perfect example. You know, we have sedentias, kilospillos, here in Indonesia, and they have sedentias chlamipinis in the red sea. And it's just the same thing, you know, but much more colorful, you know, what's the, and yeah, you can see, there is one of the picture, you know, where there is a group of them. Uh, and you can see the Acropora and Pritche, you know, so it's just over on a large bush of Acropora and Pritche, which is also, I don't think it's the same and Pritche that you find in, uh, in Indonesia. It's different coloration. Of course, that was one of the pictures I didn't grab. So yeah, can I share my screen? No, I don't have it set up that way, but, um, I could, I could try to dig it up. Um, let me see. I probably have it in the, there are some pictures, you know, also in, uh, in the call section of it. Oh, okay. Got you. Um, what, what, what's the, I mean, so the Lyartel Antheus is like one of the Antheus that I think is probably the easiest to keep out of all the Antheus in the aquarium trade. Um, you know, but they, they still, uh, I mean, is it true pretty much all the Antheus require a lot of feedings and, and a lot of patience? Yeah. So until we can automatize this, you know, I think that's something, you know, that the aquarium into the, I mean, we can automatize the water analysis, you know, how come we cannot automatize, you know, properly, you know, uh, with a simple, available product. There, there are solutions, you know, do it yourself solutions, you know, but there is no real product, you know, that to feed the, to feed fish, you know, all the long and small quantities, you know, and that's what those fish, you know, require. So I, sometime you see them in, uh, in public aquarium, where they have the resources, you know, to actually feed them a lot and a very rich food and, uh, their color, you know, it's just amazing, you know, it's just glow in the dark. But, uh, in, uh, normal aquariums, usually they, they kind of lose the color because the rich, the food they get is not as rich as the shoot and they don't get as much feeding at the shoot. Yeah. I've, I've heard that they like a lot of flow. Is that what you see in the wild in terms of, uh, Antheus being in areas of high flow or not necessarily? Yeah, it's better to have a little bit of flow. They always on a, on a place that, uh, is exposed to food and flow. Yeah. So it's always in a place, you know, high above a boulder, you know, where the, the current is coming, you know, so, but in the red season, it's not a huge amount of flow. Got you. Yeah. It's, um, yeah, yeah. They are in the place that is the most exposed to food. Yeah. Right. And, and, um, I, I think what's also cool about, um, those loud tail anthes, I'll usually get like a bunch of them and they'll be all, uh, females and then one of those females will turn the male, which is pretty neat to kind of see the, uh, the transformation. Um, yeah. Okay. The, uh, pubic, canteus, and perato, and perato. Yeah. So that's just a game. Is that the, uh, majestic? That's, that's, yeah, Emperor Angelfish. Okay. Emperor Angelfish, right? So, so it's, it's, it's a common fish, you know, from, uh, from Indonesia and from all the Indo Pacific, you know, you can find it all the way, I think to, to Tai Chi, you know, to French Polynesia, you know, so it's quite widespread, you know, but the one in the red sea, you know, just have more yellow. You can see on that picture, you know, all the tails, all the line and the, the codalfine, you know, it's actually a very, very intense yellow, you know, and the one that we find in Indonesia, you know, the correlation is not as intense. What's, what's your favorite Angelfish Vincent? I'm in the one that I haven't, I, I don't have picture yet. So the one that I'm for is the Azphir. Oh, yeah. Coma canteus Azphir. And, uh, I'm still yet to get a picture. I've seen them, you know, a long, long time ago when I was in, uh, in East Africa, you know, but, uh, I don't have a picture of you yet. So, uh, so I like to find that one. That's interesting. That's, that's something that you see a lot in the, well, at least I used to see a lot of that in the aquarium trade. Yeah, because it's, uh, it's captive red, you know, in Taiwan, it's captive red here in buddy, you know, so it's, uh, it's easy to get some captive red one, you know, but they, I mean, so far, I mean, maybe I'm not in the right area, you know, but so far, I haven't seen any one. And that's not that rare, right? I mean, they're, they're not, uh, that they're not considered a rare angel fish. Well, I think there are places where they are common, but not where I am. Um, yeah. Question from, um, P Hill 01, does it red see juvenile emperor angel look same as other areas? Yes. So it's, uh, the, the, the, the differences in coloration is more striking in the adult than in the, in the juveniles. The juveniles are pretty similar to the one we find in Indonesia. So but adults, you know, they are, they are bright, definitely bright. Yeah, it is, uh, John writes correct, that's stunning. Um, so this next one looks to be like a, uh, amorish idol and I'm gonna, I would butcher the, um, the scientific name, the, uh, any of course intermedius. Yeah. Yeah. It's a more subtle. No. It's a, the banner fish. It's a new yorkus. Okay. Uh, so it's, uh, it's more of a, the moish idol is more of a surgeon fish. Okay. It's closer to surgeon fish, while the in your case is, is a butterfly fish. So it's, it's different families, but yeah, it's, it's a benefit. You know, so that's a, that's the endemic, you know, it's a very, very pretty fish. Is that rare leaves in veg water? Not really. Okay. You see pairs, so this thing pairs. So you see pairs of them pretty much everywhere in the shallow water. Very common, very pretty. Are they, um, are they hardy? Are they hard to keep in aquarium, would you say? Uh, I think they're pretty hardy. This should be pretty hardy, you know, because they live in, in shallow, warm, bright water, you know, so they live in an environment, you know, that should make them pretty hardy. Are reef safe? I don't think. No. Yeah. They kind of opportunistic, you know, they kind of feed on everything they can find, you know, so, so if there is a lot of calls to eat, you know, I'm sure if you don't feed them properly or if they are a little bit stressed, you know, or bored or they will go for calls. And I would assume they would need a trust. Yeah. I, yeah. And then I would assume they would need a bigger tank. Yes, they become pretty big, you know, and they become like, at least a good 20 centimeters, you know, so it's a, it's a big fish. Um, I haven't seen any, I haven't seen any juvenile yet. Oh, gotcha. All right. This next one, this is a stoner. The, um, para-colinius, octon, octane, Neenie. Yes. Ok. Octotania. So that's, uh, the, the eight-line rust from the red sea, the eight very rust from the red sea, you know, I still didn't get a very nice picture of them. Dude, that's a stunning picture. Yeah, because you have the male and female together, you know, so it's a nice picture, you know, but, uh, I'm still, I'm still trying to get a picture of, uh, a male parading property, you know, but it's not an easy one to, to get, you know, I'm still working on it. So yeah, so the, it's the same thing as the older, the, the, the flasher arasses that you find in New Jersey are they live in places with a bit of current, you know, and, and a lot of branching cohes under a little bit deeper and they form large school, you know, so you have like thousands of individuals, you know, living together and then you have all the male interacting with the biggest female and all the other males. Nice. So it's very, I mean, I always enjoy, you know, stopping by, you know, and looking at which male is, which one is the biggest male because this is the one that, uh, you have the biggest chance of getting a good shot up and after following them until you have an opportunity. So they, they are, they move in a very active way, you know, so they accelerate, you know, and stop and accelerate and stop and accelerate and stop, which is very difficult, you know, to actually photograph. Yeah, I mean, in terms of the skill and being able to capture that shot, that's got to be tough. I mean, you are underwater and I can only imagine that you've got to be very quick and you mean, how many shots are you taking a second? You just have to be patient. So you just, I mean, I'm used to take picture. I like to take picture of a flasher and fair arasses. So you just have to identify, you know, the biggest male that's going to parade, you know, and just try to follow it, you know, and, and wait to time your, to trigger exactly at the time when you're going to stop. So usually what they do, you know, I mean, they, they kind of parade, you know, back and forth, you know, and at some point they're going to go up and stop. And this is where you want to get it. So it's, it's really important to have that knowledge in terms of the behavior of the fish. Yeah, you need to spend a lot of time in underwater and just watching them. Are you taking? Yeah, I mean, I, I have, I have time, you know, I mean, sometimes I teach underwater, you know, so, so while the students are doing something underwater, you know, I just look at the fish. Nice. Sometimes you have, I mean, sometimes I don't bring camera all the time, you know, I mean, I, there is some conditions, sometimes that don't allow me to bring camera, you know, and I just, I don't mind, you know, I mean, going in the water without camera, I'm just looking at the fish. Well, it's, it's a pretty cool thing, man, just being able to document all that stuff and have it for, you know, classification purposes has got to be huge. Yeah, I mean, I think most of those fish are pretty well known, you know, so, so it's nothing. There are thousands of pictures already, you know, but yeah, just observing them. And sometimes you get lucky, you know, so I have, I have actually a fairy rass that is named after me. And, and it's a lemon, it's sky that actually identified, you know, and it's, it's just, it's just was misidentified. So it was classified as a different species. And I realized that there was three different population that were very different in terms of, very different in terms of polarization, but at the same name. And then I just brought it, brought it up to his attention, you know, send him some specimens. And then it just correctly identified them. Um, I just got, yeah, a couple of, um, couple of questions, some technical questions. I'm not exactly sure what Chris Carney is asking, but I'll, I'll ask that question a second. Big E, yes, what has Vincent using for his camera and housing? So at the moment, I have an icon Z8 in a knotty cam housing. And I'm, I use satellite strobes, but I'm waiting for the new backscatter hybrid flash that I want to get into video, try to do a little bit of, I was going to ask you, you know, I know you're well known for your photographs, but video is something that you're going to start getting into more. Yeah, I mean, I'm not patient enough to do all the editing, you know, I mean, like, this is a lot of work, you know, a lot of post, post work to do to be done, you know, with video, you know, while, I mean, I always do the same, the same process, you know, my pictures, you know, so it goes pretty fast, you know, what is the, the longest is to, I give, I just can name everything with Latin name. So it's easier to find later on. But video, you know, just require a lot of post handling, post processing work. And yeah, the big, big computer power, you need to look into music, you need to look into so many different aspect that you don't need to do in photography, you know, so I'm just a lazy, lazy photograph. Nothing wrong with that, but yeah, it's like, you know, I mean, it's like, I don't have so much time, you know, to actually spend, you know, behind the computer, you know, processing everything, you got to get somebody else to do that stuff. Yeah, yeah, so that's that the thing, you know, now with Instagram and all this, you know, so people are into short videos, you know, which is much easier to produce, you know, 10 minutes, you know, YouTube documentary. But I have many friends, you know, that do video and do video properly, you know, so I'll leave it to them. Use, use one of these things, get an underwater housing for for iPhone or something like that. You can do some easy Instagram stuff. Yeah, so that's that's what for the for the foundation. That's what we use, you know, we have some some phones into a housing, you know, and we just do, you know, but you still need, you know, proper lighting. If you want to take pictures, I mean, videos of fish, like the quality of those photography, you know, it's it's kind of a lot of work. It's very different. You need, you need light in the water. You need a lot of other things, you know, to actually do it properly. All right. So Chris Carney's question. And I don't know if this is code for something. Vincent, are you on open or closed circuit? I'm open. What's that? So what's that mean? Uh, that means I just take it off. But I mean, all right, that's why I didn't get it. Just take it off. I think, you know, closed system is what Brian gain and all the other people, you know, used to dive deeper and longer. Okay. It's a very, it's a very different, uh, dive style and dive operation. You know, so it's, it's still new. It's getting more and more reliable and more affordable. Yeah, it's just a big investment to get into that. Got you. A long, I mean, you need to invest a lot of money into training and you need to invest a lot of money into equipment. It's getting windy at the cafe there, huh? Yeah. It's getting windy at the cafe. Yes. Yes. I'll, uh, I'll try to remove the background, you know, at some points. That's cool. If I can find how I kind of think the rainforest is, uh, is soothing, but the, uh, the actual background you're in and would be, um, even more entertaining, you think? There you go. Uh, yes, I turned the background, you know, so I just have to face the other one, you know, but yeah. Oh, wow. There's the, uh, there's the ocean. I can't move the blur. Oh, yeah. Now it's, now you're good. Nope. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, cool, man. That's gorgeous. Yes. That is so awesome. At some point, we'll have to try to like get you, uh, to, uh, to dive during one of these live streams and you could, you could, uh, you don't have to worry about editing the video. You could just send it back to us live. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I will, you know, once I get my video lights, you know, then, uh, we'll see, uh, if I can do more of this, you know, I mean, there is, there are a lot of interesting things, you know, and I do a documentary, like a small, short 10 minutes movie on Red Sea Coals or Red Sea Fish or some particular types of calls into the wild. I think there is, uh, there's people that would be interested, you know, watch the show. Sure. All right. Here's another, uh, fish. Oh, that was the one I already showed. So the, um, the Peric Colenius up to Nadia. Yes. So we just talked about it. You know, that's, uh, that's okay. That's another one. The Red Sea, the Red Sea, uh, flasher us. Do I have the right picture up? I might not have the right one up there. It's got a, um, kind of the top half of the body is blue and the bottom half the body is yellow and it's got a black stripe. Um, down the side, maybe I screwed up. Um, yeah. Oh, no, that's the, I'm sorry. That's the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the May, uh, sin, sin, this. Oh. I grow Linnaeus, T.S. Okay. That's what I'm showing. Yes. May, I can't do sneak all in the attus, you know, so that's funny, you know, because there is two spaces. There is a nesenius, you know, which is a classic Blini. And, uh, and the May I can't do is actually a Frank Blini, you know, so the seniors is a herbivorous fish. They have the same coloration, you know, but the herbivorous fish took over the, the coloration of that one, which is a Frank Blini, you know, that we go, you know, and like, kind of, uh, have some large canines and feed on the scales of all the fish. So fish tend to avoid it and predators try and tend to avoid it. So there is one small herbivorous Blini, you know, that just took the same coloration. Nice. Gorgia. That's like a really unique looking fish. All right. What about this, um, where he looked at this, uh, African leprechres. I don't know why I had that, uh, there again. Uh, the, um, wow, the, uh, Lara, uh, bikiss. Lara bikiss. Yeah. Well, really. That's, uh, that's a H.C. Cleaner. Wow. Wow. Yeah, it's more pretty than additional cleaner. So freaking cool. I love the coloration on that thing. Um, yeah. Yeah. And, and the juvenile and, uh, sub adult and adult, you know, and male and female, you know, actually very, very different. Very pretty fish. Yeah. That's neat. I've never had a cleaner as in one of my tanks, but, um, are they, uh, they're reef safe, right? They're reef safe, you know, but they kind of tend to bother all the other fish, you know, after a while, you know, they keep pastoring and try to clean them. Yeah. So except you have a very large tank with very large fish, you know, it's, it can be a knowing for the other fish. Got you. All right. Here's a, um, well, this looks like a swallowtail angel fish. Uh, the, uh, GSA can't see us. Yeah. You can't see us. Yeah. So probably go and collect that one. Because, uh, I have a friend, you know, that really want one of those fish, you know, so maybe I will go and try to collect a pair of those. They are pretty common. You know, as soon as you go below 20 meters, you know, they are quite everywhere. Are they? I did one of the most striking swallowtail angel fishes, the Japanese, uh, mass swallowtail angel fish. Yes. That's, that's, that's very pretty. I mean, I love swallowtail and you know, you know, because they are reef safe, you know, the freedom so plankton and, uh, male and female are very different. So you can keep pairs or, of them, you, they become quite large. You know, so I mean, not as large as a classic angel fish, you know, but they become a little bit bigger. You know, so you still need a little bit of volume to keep them, you know, but they are very pretty fish that is easy to keep. I never, um, I never had any luck getting a, uh, I never was able to get a male and a female pair together. I always was basically, I got a trio of females hoping that one of the females would turn, um, male, but I was never able to keep them, uh, long enough for that to happen. Keep each other. What's that? They chase each other and they keep each other. You know, each one is going to so they kind of sing together male with a female or females. It's that hard to start it. Do that, does that happen a lot when they get collected? Do can, can male and females get collected together easily or no? I mean, I don't know exactly because when they get collected, they all separate it. Um, you don't want to miss any fish. You know, I mean, like you, you only mix like green cognizant thing that's going to be safe. Uh, but you try to separate all the fish. So there is no, no problem. Yeah. You cannot, uh, deal in large operation with case by case, you know, you have to just deal with everything separated, you know, and then. Interesting. Wow. Um, all right. This is a, this is, this is bizarre looking fish, man. The, uh, the diplora, diplora peon, draki. Yes. So that's a subfish. It's a, what kind of fish? A sub, a subfish. So they produce a toxin, you know, to their skin, you know, that is, uh, soapy. So that's why, you know, so, I mean, it's, it's a very pretty fish, but, uh, I mean, like, why, I mean, it would, it would feed on any other smaller fish or shoot, it looks like it with that mouth. Yeah. But it is a very pretty fish. Yeah. Striking. Um, yes. What about the, um, the, uh, the desk, uh, Kilius? Morgan. Yes. Dhamton fish. So this is a deciduous machine. It's, uh, it's a, it's a endemic, let's see, uh, damselfish. Very pretty, you know, but same thing as the trimakila too. So the other damselfish, domino damselfs and all this, you know, it's a little bit, uh, aggressive, but this could be kept in a quiet. I see it. Very pretty. And when all the tail is blue, so yellow face, blue tail, and, uh, blue scaled. Uh, yeah. Really cool. I see it. It's, uh, it's, it's, it's, it seems to, uh, like to be within the green chromus. Looks like a big screen chromus there. Um, yes. So in the school of green chromus, the Acropora that you can see is the Red Sea endemic. It's Acropora euistoma, which is the equivalent of the, of the Red Sea 10. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Not as colorful, you know, but yeah. I like the formation. Yes. So this is an amazing looking fish. The, uh, the anem, anemceus twisty. Yes. So that's, uh, that's also classic. You find it all over the Indo-Pacific, you know, but, uh, probably that the Red Sea is also an endemic of that one. You know, so, uh, Kai asked me to take pictures of, uh, many pictures of them to see the differences between, uh, juveniles, uh, male and females, and, uh, see if you can identify differences between, uh, the in-gen ocean and the Pacific ones. But yeah, this is probably, you know, few different species. And that's something that's, that's in the aquarium trade. I, I don't recall seeing it like that. Oh, I'm pretty sure you can get it. You know, I mean, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's a good fish to have in a reef tank because it's going to feed on, uh, on many parasites and, uh, small streams and, uh, small farms and small crabs. So it's, uh, it's, it's not, uh, it's safe, safe, and, uh, and, uh, yeah, it's, you can get it from all over the world, you know, so, so it should be, you know, it's not very common, you know, but it should be. Is that a pricey fish? Yeah. Do you think? I don't think so. Okay. Wow. That's gorgeous. Um, yeah. All right. That's, that's a very small one as well. This one is only probably, you know, one inch. Oh, wow. That is small. Um, heroin aquatics. Does Vincent think that cyanide fishing is still happening over in Indonesia for the aquarium industry? And where is it more problematic? To be honest with you, you know, I have no idea. Uh, I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised. It's still used. Uh, or other chemicals are used. Uh, it's getting harder and harder for them to find cyanide, you know, so I'm sure they try to find other solutions. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to be used. That's a shame. Uh, but, but I don't see it, you know, I mean, I don't go out, you know, with fish correctors. So I don't know. It's hard to kind of tell in terms of signs of being on a reef and seeing perhaps some collateral damage with some fish that might, um, you know, have been killed and not collected. Well, I go diving, you know, I don't see any. So, so I try to go in places which are nice and we can find something interesting, you know, so I don't go into places that are completely destroyed and damaged. Uh, so, so yeah, it's, it's not very obvious to me, you know, I don't go in the places where they collect actually their coinfish. So I don't know. Carney says it's that that that rasp we're talking about before. It's a possum rasp relative. Yeah, it's pretty close to them. And possum raspes are not that hardy, correct? Well, they are very cryptic, you know, so they live in a deep within within the reef, you know, so they live in between the coals. So they don't like, uh, very bright light and, uh, it's not, uh, and if you're going to put them in the aquarium, you're never going to see them anywhere, you know, so I don't think it's a, it's hard. I know they're very common. It's just very difficult for them for us to see them because they always hide in within the world. All right. So I know, I know you got a hard stop like in 20 minutes. So I want to, I want to run through, uh, three more fish and then we'll get into the, uh, to the corals. So the, um, this is an awesome looking, um, butterfly fish. It looks like the, uh, the, the chat he had done some air. Succulatus. That's, that's, yeah, that's a classic endemic, uh, Red Sea butterfly fish. Yeah. It's a very iconic. Yeah. It's very pretty fish. Uh, I don't think it's safe, though. They're always in prayer and, uh, it's pretty big. They reach at least 15 centimeters or 18 centimeters. It's not a small butterfly fish. So yeah, it's, um, yeah, it's only for some special type of aquarium fish on tanks and, uh, yeah, not, not gorgeous. Gorgeous. Um, this is, uh, looks to me like a saddle clownfish. Yes. So that's the, the red sea endemic. Offiprian or Indian Ocean endemic, you know, offiprian Bismtus. So in the red sea, there are only have two species of anemones. They have the bubble tips and the, and the milky anemones. Uh, that's only two species. I know there is a few carpets here and there is a couple, uh, many fish and sea anemones, but so far I haven't seen them, you know, but we see a lot of bubble tip anemones and that's usually the clownfish that you find inside. And that's a, uh, you know, an aggressive clownfish, right? So aggressive clownfish. Uh, it's probably, yeah, in the line of the clock eye, you know, so it's probably pretty aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly one. Um, it's, and I missed, nope, I got that one. The, uh, oh, the soul hole. Yeah, the soul, that's, that's, that's the red sea endemic. You know, they are everywhere in the shallow water. So above the reef in there, in like one meter of water, they are everywhere. They become huge. They are very aggressive. Bad ass fish, right? Bad ass fish. Yeah, very bad ass fish. So they just, you know, control a territory in the very shallow. There is a lot of interaction, you know, and they're always parreting and fighting each other off. Very, very, very active, you know, so it's a fish that you can keep in a quiet, but it's very, very active and very aggressive. You know, so in its large tank, a lot of swimming space. And, uh, it will be very aggressive with the other fish. Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh, very, very fish. Yeah. Gorgeous. Just nope, stop. Never stop swimming back, back and forth, back and forth. I mean that, you know, so another, um, really aggressive, uh, tang and I don't think this is a red sea, uh, fish is the, uh, the powder blue tang. That's an Hawaiian, uh, Hawaiian fish, right? Powder blue tang. Oh, powder blue tang is from the in general. Oh, okay. Classic from, yeah. That's a really aggressive fish too, right? That's a really aggressive too, but not as aggressive as this one. This one is much bigger. You know, I mean, this, this fish is probably a foot dong. Oh, really? Whoa. Yeah. That's a big, wow. They get pretty big, you know, like, like, the, the powder blue tang only reach out for this. She's, yeah. I, I, whoa, powder blue tang. I mean, that is like just an amazing looking, uh, fish in my eyes, but I've never had any luck keeping them over long term. And even I'm like, I've added the, uh, powder blues to a tank with a bunch of other tangs in it. It was like the last fish I added to the whole tank. And, uh, it's still like, after two years, like, just turned like sinister and was, um, just the biggest bully in the tank. I had two different occasions. I had to get back. I mean, they become very tight oil, you know, so in places like in the Maldib, you find large schools of them because they have to compete with this kind of certain fish with, like, linear tooth and so on, which dominate the shallow water. They are bigger, faster, stronger. So their strategy is to just cool together and come and raise on the territories of the, of the larger surgeon fish. So they can get dissipate, you know, the aggressivity, you know, of the larger surgeon fish. While where I am right now, it's actually the eastern, the eastern part of their ranch. So they are very, the, the powder blue tang are very rare here. And what they do, they mate with, uh, the, uh, the knee ligands, I can't do it with knee ligands, which is the same equivalent, the replacement for the Pacific. And so we find a lot of hybrids here. All the shades of hybrids, you know, from dark purple, you know, to light purple. Wow. Sounds amazing. All right. Let's, um, let's we're out of through some of these, uh, corals bins. And if there's any corals in particular that you want to, um, start with, but I'll, I'll just kind of go with what I got. So we can do the acropora first. Yeah. So the, um, I got the acropora, um, hemp-free, uh, Chi. And crunchy, you know, so it's a very, so most of the acropora are not very colorful in the, in the red sea except tree species. So this is one of them, you know, and crunchy forms large stands, very bright blue, you know, so I'm not sure it would do well in, in, in a quiet because blue usually turns green and there are blue LEDs. So it's not very bright, but on the reef itself, it's one of the brightest. It looks a little bit like a humulus, right? But the humulus is more dense branches. Yes. It's a, it's a branching humanist, you know, it's, it's very thick, very strong. Uh, it's very hard to break. Uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's very digitate branching colors as a mix, growing shape, you know, between digitate and branching. But not, uh, very colorful. Yeah. Um, all right, acropora, this is a really interesting, looking coral, the, uh, the hemp, hemp, that's my, the hemp bricky, hemp bricky. Yes. Yes. My pronouncing that way. Yes. It's freaky. It's a, it's, yeah, it's, it's a very nice one. The next one, you know, that that's the one I want to talk about, you know, it's called fahrenheit. I don't know if you have that one. The, um, uh, let's see here. Oh, yeah. Okay. That's, that's what I was showing the, uh, the Fronius. Yeah. I got it. Yeah. Yes. Found. The, uh, is a large table acropora. It's light blue color or light purple color, but it's a very fascinating call. It's, uh, it's, yeah, it's, that's only one that is actually producing large table colonies in the red sea. And, uh, obviously, you know, I mean, it wouldn't look good in a quiet because the size is, I mean, to get the full colony size, you wouldn't need a huge aquarium, but it's a very, very pretty call. It's one of my, and very, very iconic, you know, it looks like nothing else. Let me see if I got the right picture here because, um, it, so it's, it's like a wide branch in coral, but it tables. Is that what you're saying? Yes. Kind of. I don't have any, I didn't use my wide angle lens yet, you know, so I didn't have an opportunity to actually take a full colony picture. So I just have some few, some few shots. That's really crazy in terms of the, uh, the branching of that call. I mean, that's something that I've barely never seen before. It seems very unique. Um, here's, uh, here's another one. This looks like a, uh, pastilla for the plant, uh, plant diginia. Yeah, so that's also resendemic. That's one call that would be good in a quiet. It's kind of humanly, digitate life. It has green polyps. So it would look really good. So blue tips, green polyps, it's not very obvious on the pictures, you know, but the polyps are, are very, are very bright, you know, so it would be, it would be nice in a quiet. Same thing, very dense skeleton. Yeah, but pretty strong. Yeah, pretty small. But not that colorful. I mean, this particular coral is not that colorful. Or yeah, but I think under blue LEDs, you know, it would pop under the blues. Yeah, okay. Yes. Yes. It would look good. You know, because the polyps are kind of yellow, greenish, fluorescence. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, and these were taken under, I'm assuming like full spectrum kind of lighting. Yes. Yes. It's like 5000 Kelvin light. So that's usually the, the strobs, you know, so it's very flat. Yeah. Yeah. That definitely mutes it. But if you keep this in the HQI metal allied, you know, they would look fantastic. Oh really? All those guys. That's kind of like a thing that you got to kind of keep in mind when you're collecting corals for the aquarium trade or something or whatever they're getting collected that coloration and what they would look like under blues. You know that, you know, that red and yellow is going to pop up, right? Blue LED. While blue and purple is going to turn gray under blue LEDs. So any even you go diving, you see very bright blue calls, you know, you know, they're not going to look good and apply them, except people keep them under metal allied. But under blue LEDs are not going to look good, you know. So you look for, you look for called up yellow and red, you know. So if they have a yellow color with red polyps, that's the best you can get. Do you ever take like a, like a blue light with you and when you're diving to kind of try to see exactly? So the, I wish, but it only works in night dives because the sunlight is so strong that you can take the most powerful blue LEDs, you know, it's not going to look at you. You know, you're not going to see it. Yeah. So I haven't found blue LEDs strong enough to actually make a difference in full, full daylight. So that's a problem I have. Makes sense. All right, here's about, but at night it works. Right. Here's, this is a kick ass looking Acro. The Acropor Squarosa. So yeah, that's, yeah, Squarosa, it's a classic endemic Acropor. Let's see endemic. Very same thing. It's blue purple, you know. So I'm not sure it would look good, but it's a very thick, it's like a thick loripas. Right. Or thick granulosa. Right. It's very, very characteristic. It's very pretty. I just, I can't recall ever seeing that kind of formation. Very unique. Yeah, very, very. That's cool. That's, that's a call that Jake would love, right? I still want to, I spent like 15 minutes, you know, looking at it, you know, and try to organize. So like the, the, the branches, I mean, it's not very obvious on the picture, you know, but the branches are probably, you know, like a couple centimeter thick. Holy crap. That would, that would be a call that, that Jake would be drawn to, I would imagine. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And even the coniastria that is next to it, you know, is a very, it's a very unique. This is a acropora variosa, variosa. Very, variosa. Right. You know, that's, that's pretty similar, you know, than the squareosa. So squareosa, you're gonna find it deeper. And the variosa, you're gonna find in the, in the shallow water, it's in between amprechy and it's very, very characteristic, you know, it's somewhere, you know, it's like a thicker lorry pass, you know, but with pointy branches. Nice. Yeah. It's very nice too. All right. Here's, here's a couple of blasti musas. Yes. So the red sea and, and Persian gold pandemic, you know, the, the blastomasa lorry. That is actually pretty common. You know, it's, I mean, it's, it's not very spectacular on the water. It looks like an encrusting for vices. And then you, you have to look closely, you know, to look at them, see that the polyps are separated. They have separated lobs and correlates. I haven't seen any, any very colorful ones, you know, those one have like a blue mouth, but I'm still, I'm still going after them. It's a very neat, amazing. And unique red sea, you know, so that's why I was very excited to, to find it. Here's a, um, coast and area, Monily. Yes. So yeah, that's, that's, uh, I don't think it's a red sea endemic. It's a red sea and in, in the ocean andemic. But yeah, it's very, it's like almost like a lepto series, a massive lepto series, you know, it's very interesting. Yep. Um, here is a, this is, looks a very unique, uh, the, uh, dipsa, tradia, tradia, but at, at the A. Yeah, so that's, that's also, you know, I mean, actually this one, that picture is from Indonesia, you know, it got mixed in the, in the loop, you know, it's not a red sea. Sorry about that. That's that's cool. Well, uh, how about this, uh, this looks like a really unique one. The, um, the, uh, the, the, the econophilia, that is pronounced. Yeah. So it's as per, you know, so that one or the red one, you know, there's not many econophilia, but some of them, I, I start to find some which are very colorful. That always looks like a chalice. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah. Um, this is a, um, the, uh, econopora frugtilosa. Frugtilosa, yeah. So that's, that's the, too, you know, so that's, the red sea has many different species of, uh, endemic echinopora. They are very, the, the polyps are larger than the one that you usually find in Indonesia. So frugtilosa is a branching, uh, branching echinopora, which is kind of neat. We don't see many of them. And that would be a very nice call that I would love to have an appointment. Um, so can, um, chirobini is asking, is there a list of these acropores, um, that we can access after the podcast? I'll, um, by tomorrow, I'll put a list of, uh, oral corals in the fish in the, uh, video description to, uh, to help. I'm translating for Keith. Thanks a man. It's been hard. It's been hard. But I don't know if it's a man, you're like, you're, you're sort of understanding what I'm saying. So seems to be working. Um, Galaxia. I know how to pronounce that. Yeah. Galaxia. That's on a kickass looking Galaxia. Yeah. So yes, Galaxia from the same thing, you know, I mean, I think Galaxia is a, it's a genus that should get a lot of work on it, you know, because there is definitely, you know, more than 10 or 20 different species of Galaxia faecularis, you know, so this is the one in the red sea, which is very different from the one in, uh, we have here, you know, so it lives, it's always shaded. It doesn't leave, you know, directly exposed to the sun. It's always under all the calls in, in holes and cracks on the reef, you know, and get, uh, mid-lighting, partial-lighting. So it's kind of a cryptic, uh, Galaxia, very different from the one we have here. That's bitching. That's, that's pretty freaking cool. All right. Here's a, um, uh, gyros, milia, interrupter. So that's the red sea and the mid. So that's one call that you find only in the red sea, you know, so I had a discussion with, uh, with Julian's prong about it, you know, and you think there is two different species, there is a shallow species and there is a deep species. So those two ones are shallow water ones, but I, I've seen some deeper ones. Really cool and unique. Yeah. It's not a very nice calls, you know, for aquariums, you know, but for our near like me, you know, I enjoy it very much. Yeah, for sure. Um, all right. So Montapora, the, uh, the, uh, the Mont, uh, no, I'm sorry. The, yeah, Montapora, um, the Andrini. And, uh, so there is a lot of this, you know, very, a lot more colorful than, uh, the Indonesian version. Very bright blue, bright purple. It's a very nice call. Yeah. Very massive. Yeah. Awesome. Um, this is just a, uh, you got this label as a Montapora. Looks like an orange mountain. Yes. I didn't have time to go and look for the exact species, not probably a multiple emollis or something like that. You know, bright orange. Yeah. It's also, this one would do, would be popular in a coin. Definitely. Yeah. The color would pop up under blue light. Um, the, uh, my CDM. So yeah, that's definitely a red sea endemic, you know, it's, it is nothing like the, the mycidium we have in, uh, in Indonesia. So it's definitely different. Yeah. That's, that's all. I've never seen something like that. You see all the polyp sticking out. Uh, it's definitely a mycidium, but it's definitely a different species. It's not elephant-toated or Robokaki. It's a different species. Awesome. Um, here is a, um, this is really cool one. The, uh, the paramot, Mont, Mont's Triet. Triet, yeah. Paramontastria. It's a, it's a red sea endemic. You find it in the patient golf also, you know, but it's a, it's a very characteristic pink color. Uh, red sea endemic. Very pretty. Yeah. Really cool. Um, this is a unique, the, uh, varieties. Yeah. So there is a lot of, uh, providers, uh, in the red sea. And I think like, I didn't get into it. I didn't take so many pictures of them yet, you know, but I think there are a lot of, uh, endemic. Poitis first, um, is widespread all over the Indo-Pacific, but I think the red sea one is, is actually different. So I think it's also an endemic species. Really, uh, unique. This is, uh, this is like one that, uh, well, I could pronounce this style of fora and, uh, pistiliality. It's, uh, it's something you'd, I used to see a lot. You know, I think we used to see a lot in the aquarium trade, the bright, bright pink, um, style of fora. And, uh, it seems like it has an, what's that? I think this is what has become the milka. Oh, you think? Cause I, I always thought the milka was a lot more purple. Yes, but in aquariums. And I haven't, I haven't seen anything like, like real purple, uh, style of fora. They, there are a lot of style of fora. I know, that's, you know, a lot of, a lot of, uh, but this, this kind of skinny branches, you know, with bright pink and yellow tips, you know, is, uh, it's pretty common. And the same thing, you know, I mean, it's, uh, I think it's a, it's also an endemic. At some point, you know, somebody will look into the genetics of this, you know, and, uh, they will find that there's enough. That, that, uh, potentially could be the, um, the milka. Um, but I used to have like this, just hot pink style that, um, was one of my favorites. BG. The one BG are very big. Gotcha. Um, all right. A couple quick, uh, tridacta, uh, squamosa. Yeah. So this is something very interesting. You know, the red seal doesn't have, uh, huge diversity of clams, you know, it has a three different species, squamosa, uh, maxima, and, uh, the other one, which is, uh, squamosilla, or I think, you know, that's the hybrid between, but there is a lot of them, you know, and the reef is covered with maxima clams everywhere. So maxima clams are everywhere on the reefs, on the reefs of red sea, you know, they are very, uh, very important component of, if I had to make an, uh, red sea aquarium, I would put a lot of maxima clams, uh, tobinaya, uh, uniformies, yellow tobinaya, and a lot of mille pore calls, a dole calls, the fire calls, so I'll put a lot of this stuff for me, are the three endemic, um, calls and moles of the, of the red sea, you know, that would be, uh, the, the foundation of the red sea tank. Well, if we had more time, I would, I would, uh, I would ask you some more questions about that, Vincent, but I know you got to go, man. So, uh, listen, so again, how, um, how can people help support what you're doing there? So you can, you, we have, uh, internet website that's called oceangardenair.org. Uh, so that's ocean gardener. You can see this, that's the logo and, uh, the thing. So you can do on the website and you can help us. We offer some courses here in Indonesia, you know, coral reef estuation course, which is a four weeks course, uh, where we do a one week call idea, one week call gardening, one week coral reef estuation and one week monitoring. So if people want, if divers, they need to be divers, they need to be advanced divers. Uh, but if people want to learn or to do coral reef, it's basically, you know, I mean, aquarium work, but underwater. Nice. At, at, at the larger scale. But, uh, yeah, it's very interesting. Some people are diver and want to learn about, uh, coral reef estuation. We offer courses here in Bali, you know, so where you will see a lot of calls. You will end a lot of calls and, uh, you will learn all two print calls on the water. That's pretty freaking awesome. That's, uh, that's so unique. Yeah. Yeah. I like Aquarius. You know, I like, uh, when I get, uh, clients, you know, that Aquarius, you know, they will usually do very well. Cool. All right. Well, listen, Vincent, man, I, uh, I want to thank you again for spending this, uh, this time with us and helping to, uh, educate us and thank you for all the work you do over there. Thank you very much. You know, I appreciate it. You know, anytime, you know, I hope I wish I had more time, you know, but it's, uh, it's the dawn of the day. It's eight thirty in the morning, you know, and I need to do some work. You got to go, man. All right. Well, listen, thanks, Vincent. Appreciate it. And, um, you can, you can, uh, you can take a, you know, take off their vision. Well, I'm going to thank my sponsors one more time, but, um, thank you. Thank you. I, um, I want to thank Polo Reef for, um, for being the sponsor, one of the sponsors. Make sure to check out Polo Reef's new YouTube video that drops is Friday. Part two, where Andrew discovers mysterious white spots on many coral colonies and calls for an emergency dive in the aquarium. Join them as they try to figure out what is happening. And also check out part one that dropped last week. Make sure to subscribe to the YouTube channel at Polo Reef for video drop notifications, champion lighting and supply besides being in place for hobbyists to purchase saltwater aquarium supplies online. Champion lighting is a also wholesale distributor for many popular brands. If you own an aquarium store or an aquarium service company, contact champion lighting through their website at championlighting.com to set up a wholesale account. Uh, Todd and his crew will be at restock Chattanooga, August 24th and 25th. So stop by and say hello. Uh, thank you also to Fauna Marine. I do use the Fauna Marine IC reef, ICP total test kit, which gives a quick, accurate and easy overview over 90 water values in reef aquariums from macro elements to trace elements and pollutants. You get a complete overview with corresponding to those of action recommendations. I am now a certified Fauna Marine ICP test advisor. So if you want to help, uh, with interpreting results and select reef, um, big, thank you to Paul Zoltz, the moderate as well as the president of the Boston River Society. Please join and support your local reefing clubs. They are so important to this hobby. Also want to let you know that all episodes of wrap on the reef bum were available as podcasts and Spotify, Apple podcast, Google podcast, Stitcher and Amazon. All right. Next week, this is going to be an incredible show. We're going to have a little bit of a smackdown with some reef keeping legends. Next Tuesday, August 20th at seven p.m. Eastern Standard Time. Yes. This is going to be a very interesting show. We're going to have Julian sprung Charles Delbake, Mike Paleta and Sanjay Yoshi on a show. So, uh, this is going to be a round table discussion. Don't miss it. These are icons of the hobby. I, uh, I have a bunch of questions, but please come, uh, with your questions. This will be a fascinating show. So until next time, be safe and be well. Later. [BLANK_AUDIO]