Larry and Sean talk about the massive hole the Mariners find themselves in following the sweep to the Detroit Tigers.
Collins It Like It Is
48. That Was Rough
(upbeat music) Welcome back in to the Collins It Like It Is podcast. My name is Sean Collins, and thanks for checking us out. If you're new lurking, it's your first time listening to us. Welcome, we are a podcast where we talk about the Seattle Mariners and the Seattle Seahawks. Man, that season cannot come quick enough. Let me tell you, I am dying to talk about anything other than this Mariners team at this point. And well, let me back up a little bit. I got my dad on this episode. So dad, thanks for coming on. I wish we had more exciting stuff to talk about, but you know what? We said we were gonna do an episode after every series. We're gonna see it through. For better or worse, we are gonna provide content after every series. Oh, man. I was just, yeah, go ahead. That was rough. That was just a very disappointing series. Disappointing after we came off the high of sweeping the Mets, and we have to go and play the Tigers again. You know that Megatron Tigers. Yeah. Jugger notts. Jugger notts, Megatron was a Detroit Lions, obviously. Yeah. But yeah, who would thought we'd lose five out of six games to Detroit? Holy moly, getting swept. That's just unacceptable. It's coming off that high. We pretty much came to a low and dug ourselves a hole that I'm not sure we can get out of. Yes, there's still 40 games left to go, but it's gonna be a, it's gonna be a chore to crawl out of this hole and then a little downturn in our rollercoaster of a season that we've created for ourselves. Yeah. It's gonna be really hard. This series, it just was a disaster. I don't know how else to say it. It's a new low point for the season and that's saying a lot. Yeah, definitely. We had in game one losing 15 to one, right? That was the score of that game. Yep. Okay, actually, to be honest, I actually didn't care a whole lot. I was not too low about that game. You know, it happens. It's pathetic. I don't wanna gloss over it, but Kirby, Kirby. He just had a bad game, defense had a bad game. It's game one, just flush it down the toilet, come back the next day, energized and ready to play, ready to win and we did not do that. We came out flat, we came out just that whole narrative that we were talking about the last time we played the Tigers where it's just, what are they taking sleeping pills? What is going on out here? It was back. It was back, worse than I've ever seen it. And, you know, we had our starting pitching in games two and three, phenomenal. I mean, we had seven shutout innings from both starters in game two and game three and you don't come away with either win. And it just makes me infuriated because it's just, I don't know, the way it makes me feel honestly is, you know, this pitching staff, I mean, how far back do you have to go before you find a one through five better than the, better than what the Seattle Mariners have in this season? I mean, you may have to go all the way back to the, I mean, there are better aces. - Like don't get me wrong. - Yeah, for sure. - Randy Johnson, Kurt Schilling. I mean, back in the day, you had Clemens and Andy Pettit. And there have been phenomenal one in twos, but you're talking about a one through five. I think you may have to go all the way back to 2002, 2003 with the Oakland A's where you got Mulder and Zito and Hudson. And there are a couple other guys in there as well. I think you've got to go all the way back to that time to even get in the conversation with the 2020-24 Mariners. And we're sitting here, what? Are we three games at over 500? Two games over 500? Like what is our record right now, Daddy? - Our actual record, do I have it here? - I can get it. - '63 and '59 maybe? - Yeah, we're '63 and '59. - Yeah. - And we're three games back in the division. We blew a 10-game lead earlier in the year. Now we're three games back. You know who the Astros play? - The White Sox. - The Astros play the White Sox, you know who we play? Next? - Yeah, we got the Pirates. - You know who they're pitching game one? - Mr. Skeens. - All Skeens. - Yeah, so. - We'll take two out of three, no problem. It's just making me bleak. It's just so bleak and it's just so frustrating. And if it was my decision moving forward, I mean, I've already said this, but I think the only way that we make the playoffs is if you're willing to have the guts to let service go. I mean, this energy, this whole mantra of, don't get too high, don't get too low, that's nonsense. It's absolute nonsense because this team does get too low. This team is, this team's whole mantra, this team's whole personality is a flat line. - Yeah, it craters. We never get too high, whatever. We never get too high, but we always get too low. And this whole identity that Scott's service has preached of don't get too high, don't get too low, they get too low two, three times a week. And they come out flat, they come out not prepared, they come out just like a bunch of air heads getting picked off, errors out in the field, which can't even pick up a ball at the wall, stuff like that where it's like, this is just focus, this is just basics. And I hear a lot of people complaining about Scott's service because, oh man, you know, it's in game management or, you know, you should have let Brian Wu pitch the eighth inning. It's like, let's just talk about effort here. Let's just talk about being focused. You know, and it's not a fan saying it. It's Calwali saying it. It's its own team saying it, energy. They need energy and they bring it every night and it's not happening. - I don't understand how this is possible. How is this possible that you need to bring energy in a pennant race against the Houston Astros? I mean, this is the team that has kicked your butt for the last, what, seven years? - You got the guy on the top of the mountain on the ropes. - I just don't understand. - You should be motivated. - How is energy, especially with this stadium and this fan base that they sell out the stadium and the stadium's rocking. And you can't figure out a way to build energy. I just don't understand how this is possible. It does not make any sense to me how this is possible. And if you blow this starting pitching, which they are going to, if we roll down the road and we keep Scott's service at the driver's seat, this team has picked up, I mean, it feeds off of Scott. This team has the personality of Scott and they've bought into it, sure. They have totally bought into it and you know what? Let me ask you this, dad. Let me ask you this. Okay, if you think about a player that has, and I'm talking about historically, let's go all the way back, the history of the Mariners, who do you think encapsulates that don't get too high, don't get too low? Just personality. If you were to say, okay, there's a player out there, maybe let's pinpoint the 1995 Mariners. Who do you feel like, okay, they never got too high, they never got too low, they were just a professional. Who do you think embodies that the most? Well, off the top of my head, I wasn't thinking J-Bunner, but who are you thinking? I'm thinking of Edgar Martinez. And even J-Bunner, we can use either of those. We could use either of those. You know what happened with Edgar Martinez? He got hit by a pitch and charged the mound one game. So there's this idea that, oh, don't get too high, don't get too low. It's like, even if we look at who the Mariners have been, like who has embodied that personality the most, there's still fire, I still think of Edgar Martinez, or a J-Bunner, when they're around on the bases. J-Bunner flip bats. I mean, I can look think back of 1995, 1996 highlights. When he'd hit a dinger, that bat would be chucked. He'd be, you know, swag. I mean, Edgar was professional and, but he was consistent. He had a bat that just wouldn't quit, and he didn't have the low lows. He was consistent, but his bat was always top of the top notch. He wasn't lethargic. I can tell you that much, you know. You never had to wonder, is Edgar Martinez gonna be prepared for today? Is he gonna have energy today? He may have not been flamboyant. He may have not been, you know, slammin' bats. He may not have been Joe's galaxy. Right, and it's just, no, I give it. It just doesn't make any sense to me that this is what we're talking about in the middle of August during a pennant race that we're talking about, energy consistently. This is what we, this is the theme of the show. Go all the way back to the beginning of the season. We talked of how, and it was a joke at the time, but we talked about Cansone's effort, running down a fly ball that was in the corner, and I can take him out of the game. Yeah, he got pulled from the game. We're talking about effort and all of that back in the beginning of the season, and it's still an issue in the middle of August. How has this been our consistent theme all year? I just don't understand, but I tell you what, if you wanna make a run at this thing, you have to get a new leader at this. This is systematic, it doesn't matter who we bring in. I can't believe that we're talking about energy when the core of your team, the core of your team is Julio Rodriguez, Randy Rosarina and Victor Robles. Those are the most energetic, extroverted... It's hard to take their out of their sales. The wind is completely out of their sales. How is that possible? I don't understand. Well, on one hand, is it Scott's service? Is it his responsibility to make sure the players are energized and motivated and have a common focus? Sure, I mean, that is part of the manager's job, but it's also part of the players' responsibility to play to their potential and play to them with high energy and the best of their ability. Yeah, but I'm looking at the stats that are glaring to me is they're just not hitting with runners in scoring position. Again, that's a common theme for our Mariners. Yeah. That's what really stands out to me against these Tigers is we had a lot of walks, we had a lot of bases loaded. Our runners are better for getting on base. We just couldn't move them around and that's a common theme for this era of Scott's service. Yeah, I'm ready to move. I'm ready for a new era. I just don't see it. I don't see this working out. I don't see us making the playoffs if Scott's our manager. It would be unprecedented for a manager to get fired at the middle in the middle of August. I know that the White Sox fired their manager, but we're not like the White Sox. I don't see it happening. That's not gonna happen between here and end of September. Well, then let me ask you this. You think that we can make the playoffs with Scott's service as our manager? I don't, do I think we can have the talent to do it? Will we? At the, I don't know. I think we are, I think we've dug ourselves a whole that is gonna take an unprecedented amount of change in our ball club, unprecedented amount of change in the Houston Astros ball club 'cause they're hotter and hot still. Yeah. Do I think we're gonna make the playoffs? No, I don't, I don't know. I think the West is too much of a hill to climb. Are we gonna catch Kansas City? Probably even though we're farther behind, we have probably a better chance to catch Kansas City than catch Houston. 'Cause Houston's hot. Yeah, and they're getting Tucker back and they don't even have their best player. Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, and that's what's disappointing is that we had a chance to gain some ground, get a little cushion and instead we went in the hole and that's, so I don't think we're gonna win the West and I think we got an uphill climb to even take a wildcard. So it was a depressing day after the high of the Mets, now the lowest of lows for the sweep against being swept against the Tigers and how we did it, we did it with, like you said, our pitchers seven scoreless, two games in a row and it was our bats not showing up, energy not showing up and our bullpen obviously gave up the lead late in games and I think what also stands out to me is when our pitchers make a bad pitch, the other teams don't miss. They jump on our poorly located pitches and that's what happened, carpenter jumped on Jimmy Garcia. Yup, bias jumped on Munoz, bad location, bad pitches. When did we do that at all this whole season really? Yeah, and yeah, we scored a few high scoring games, which that's what you said. The last podcast is, you know, we get glimpses into what our offense can be, but it's not consistent. We have, you know, a good series win against the Phillies, excellent sweep against the Mets and then we lose five out of six to the Tigers. Yup, just the consistency's not there. We don't hit pitchers, the opposing pitchers mistakes, but they don't miss ours and that's what we found out in the last two games. Yup, this is such a minor little blip on the radar for our team, but, you know, I mentioned it a few episodes ago, but man, our bullpen is flawed. We don't have a lefty that can come in and get another team's stud lefty out. You know, we got killed late in games by Harper, Devers, and now Kerry Carpenter. And, you know, we needed Sausado or Spire to step up. Didn't have to be both of them, but we needed one of them to step up and neither one of them did. They both cratered this year and that stinks. Our team desperately needs a lefty specialist and we don't have one. So, you know, I'm not blam. I mean, at the end of the day, Jimmy Garcia was brought in to be a set up guy to, you know, link arms with Munoz and the eighth, ninth inning. If we got a lead, those games are one. And, you know, ultimately, Jimmy Garcia is a, he's a better pitcher than Kerry Carpenter is a hitter. That should have been matchup in our favor. He hung one, Kerry Carpenter didn't miss it, but I still think that, man, if you had a lefty specialist in that spot, that's the spot you use them in. And we don't have one. And we could have used one in Boston. We could have used one against the Phillies, you know, we don't have one, we don't have one. And it really shows. - And although I would think, you know, the last two games, I think our bullpen was set up perfectly. We did, like I said previously, that Gilbert start, you know, against the Mets was a perfect game in the sense that Gilbert went seven innings. Garcia was lights out, Munoz was lights out. We won the game, shut him out. - Yeah. - These last two games were set up perfectly also. We had Wu went seven scoreless. We had Jimmy and Munoz could have came in, but once Garcia missed the top rail, the carpenter missed or hit his the home run. - Yep. - So we had the bullpen set up these last two games perfectly, Miller did the same thing. We pitched seven scoreless standings. - Yeah. - And what happened? Munoz, well, Garcia walks the first batter. He goes around a third, bringing Munoz and Munoz misses on a slider. And Baez, the worst qualified hitter in major leagues 'cause his WRC+ is 39. He's the worst qualified hitter in major leagues. And he missed a slider. What do you wanna do with Baez? You want to throw the slider. So throwing the slider wasn't the wrong pitch to throw. It was just bad location. He hung it and Baez is a free swinger and didn't miss it. - Yep. - Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to say at this point other than it's just really disappointing this season, this team on paper. I mean, heck, you got Julio, you got Rosarina, you got Cal Rawley who's the best catcher in baseball by most statistics. It's him or it's him or Richmond. I mean, you've got, you know, you brought in Turner. You've got, you know, Robles who's been absolutely hot. You've got good players. And the fact that we're sitting here talking about this team, it's not like, you know, it's not like the, the starting pitching is, you know, going to, you know, go into battle with the 2013 Mariners lineup. And it's just Hazers-Montero and, you know, Justin Smoke and Akley and like, oh man, what a disaster. It's like, this lineup, how are they this bad? I don't understand how this team is this bad. And it just makes it feel like this is systemic. This is something that- - I think it's systemic. 'Cause we, I think we, I think our trade deadline, we talked about that in our trade deadline show. I think we picked up enough bats to fill in. I think our lineup one through six can play with anybody. - Yeah, with the right mindset, the right motivation, the right energy. - Yeah, it's just not happening. - Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, one of our, you know, one of the people that we follow and interact with is named Jeremy Krom on Twitter and does a really fun podcast, the Untitled Mariners podcast. Check it out if you haven't. They're funny guys over there and talk good Mariners content. But they, or I should say, Jeremy kind of made a little poll on Twitter and said, okay, you got option A, you got option B. Option A is Mariners make the playoffs and you don't know what happens. Option B is the Mariners miss the playoffs and you get a whole new regime change. And, you know, the actual answer for me is both. I mean, I'm not going to ever root for the Mariners to lose ever, ever, ever. I am a Mariners fan and I hope we win the next 40 games and win the World Series and, you know, everyone, you know, is raising a banner and it's the greatest season of Mariners history. I hope that that happens. It's still on the table. It's still on the table. It could've got to make a big change for that to happen. - Yep, but it's the 40 games to change our stripes and I just don't see it happening. I don't see it happening either. But I tell you what, I'm not going to stop watching. I'm not going to stop being hopeful. - Sure, yeah. - But it is bleak because what do I ultimately want? I want change for a lot of the same reasons that we want to peat out. It's like this, this messaging is stale. This messaging is not getting through the players. This whole idea of don't get too high, don't get too low. Every team has its ups and downs. This team fights. All that stuff that is Scott's personality is stale. The players are not feeding off of it. They're not performing from it. It's not motivating the team. It's a tough watch. It's hard to, we don't know what team you're getting. You're going to get. I mean, there's an equal chance that the Mariners put up 10 runs tomorrow against Paul Skeens. But that was, I mean, he could throw a perfect game. And equally, you know, those things are equally likely. I don't think I'm taking Paul Skeens perfect game versus our 10 runs against Skeens. But you never know. Like you never know. I mean, sometimes the Mariners show up and they are the most, they look like a better offense than the Dodgers with Mookie Betts, Freddy Freeman and Otani. Like they have that in them. And you just never know. And that's just frustrating. It's bad leadership. That's just, you know, you've got to look at leadership. I think Scott's obviously, he's well liked. I think he's liked by the clubhouse. And they're going to tell you that there's not a lack of effort. Although we know what Cal said. Yeah, I've also got eyeballs and I can watch the games. And it's, yeah, we need energy. We need some emotion. We need, there is, and we both said this. And Steven has said it that, yeah, there is truth to not getting too high and too low, but you don't want to be deadlined. No. And they're way too low. The whole idea of I don't get too high, don't get too low. But this team is low consistently. And I tell you what, just, just, you know, my question to Scott is, OK, your messaging of don't get too high, don't get too low, which you have preached for nine years. Has that worked? Has that gotten you the results you've wanted? Why not just go out there and say, hey, get pissed off? If you strike out, come on into the dugout. If you want to slam your bat in this bat rack and check your helmet and down the hallway, go for it. You know, if you're excited, flip your bat. You know, I want to see some fist pumping around the bases. I want to see some taunting. I want to see some energy. I want to see some guys getting, if you walk a guy, I want to see you scream it into your glove. Things that I don't want to say on this podcast. Why don't you give that a try? Well, like, why don't you give that a try? Because you're a whole idea of, you know, basically be a robot out there. That's not getting you the results you want. So it'd be one thing if it was like, hey, don't get too high. Don't get too low. But this whole team is just the freakin' Soviet Union in the, you know, Aki. And it's just, man, they are just absolutely just a bunch of, you know, robots out there. But man, they are just perfect. They execute everything perfectly. They are a flawless team. That's not the Mariners. And I think that's what he, like, that's his vision for it, is like, oh, I mean, we're just gonna be stoic. We're gonna, you know, just be, just this absolute, just finesse, just perfect team. Don't get too high, don't get too low. Yep, it's not working. You need some energy. You need some guy, let Robles, I'm not saying he's not, but you, I don't know, like, you can't change people's personalities, but you also don't wanna, you know, a person like, I don't know, say a Luke Rayleigh, just somebody who's kind of just even keel. It's naturally, I don't know if I would fan that flame. You know what I mean? Like I'd say, I'd say they're an egg Rayleigh on. You pissed, you pissed off Rayleigh, let's see it. Like, you know, like that would be my, that would be my approach, because it's not working. Like at the end of the day, it's not working. And if it doesn't work for the last 40 games, you should be in a sprint. You should be laying it all out on the line. And if you gotta muster up some energy, some emotion, then do it. It's also crazy to me that like, how is Scott, how is his tone not more urgent for himself? Like, you know, I'd be so desperate if I was him. He's got a dream job. He's the manager of a professional baseball team. And they're pretty good with five great starting pitchers. They've been pretty much healthy. It's over woo, but woozer number five. Like if you miss the playoffs, you're done, dude. Like, I mean, if you get brought back, I just, that's gonna be really tough on the fan base. I don't know, I don't understand. Yeah, that's gonna be dark. Some's not working, some's gotta change. Players, we, I think we got good players. I think we have good players. Yep. It's why they're not performing is just mind boggling. I mean, yeah, we just talked about it. We had a at a poorly located fastball by Garcia that carpenter didn't miss. We had a poorly placed slider by Munoz that bias didn't miss. Yeah. You know, they hit their pitch. We're talking a whole different narrative. 'Cause before Garcia pitched his fastball, I knew that's what was coming 'cause that's what Cal calls. He calls a high fastball for the straight-out pitch. And before he pitched it, I go, make sure you hit that top rail, Garcia. And he didn't. No, the middle and, 'cause I know that's where he was going. Oh, sure. The very next pitch to the next batter was a top rail inside pitch. And I think Cal called that to show Jimmy you could, you can make that pitch if you want to. Yeah. And so two losses came 'cause of two poorly placed pitches. We just don't miss, we just don't hit. We don't connect. We don't take advantage of the mistakes from other pitchers. Yep. I mean, ultimately you lost a game where you had seven, seven, seven shutout innings. You had a bullpen day for the other team. The Tigers are not good. I'll give you that in game one, you had school goal, you know, that just wasn't gonna be our game. Whether we lose 15 to one or whether we lose four to one. I mean, ultimately that was a game you can crinkle up. But the fact that we had bullpen games, we had a game against Kinta, Maeda. And I mean, how do you lose those games when you get seven shutout innings? It's just- It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. Yep, it's mind boggling. It just makes your stomach turn, makes you sad. I mean, I mean, our energy is not exactly off the rails on this episode, but it honestly is just sad. You know, you could see it this year. You could see the potential this year. It all, I liked it. You know, I liked the idea of, you know, Garber and Polanco and you got Julio as an MVP candidate. And then even, you know, okay, those things didn't work fine. And then you bring in a Rosarina, you bring in Turner and it's like, okay, now the core is different. All right, we got Robles, we got a Rosarina, we got Julio Turner, you know, he's Turner's exactly what we wanted Cal Rali to be, or sorry, what we wanted Ty France to be. And it's still, it's like, this is the same team as it's ever been, like this is the same thing. - Yep, and you know, this team, I'm just starting not to recognize it versus years past. I mean, I think about the 2022 team, you know, you had Carlos Santana, you had even guys like Jesse Winker. You had just guys that had buyer to them. They just played angry, they played with a spark. They played with urgency. And this team just does not have that. We miss Geno Suarez, we miss Santana. We miss Jesse Winker, even in, we miss the, honestly, I mean, well, if you want energy and you want a little bit of personality and you want. - Yeah, what I'm talking about. - Yeah, I mentioned it earlier in the year, there were games where Edgar Martinez charged them out. There were games where he got pissed. There were games where he was furious. There were games where he was fist pumping around the field. There were games where Edgar Martinez, Mr, don't get too high, don't get too low. There were games where he showed, I'm pissed. There were games he showed, I was excited. And we just don't have any of that on this team. Or at least not nearly enough of it. So, yeah, just back to the idea, you know, our bats did anything. Bad pitch by Garcia, the bad pitch by Munoz. Even though they would have been home run still, they wouldn't have been losing bad pitches. - Yeah. - Because three for 27 in the series, I mean, three for 27. - We had. - For the runners scoring position. Runners in scoring position. We had 27 runners in scoring position for the according to the stats, yeah. - Holy shit, we scored, what, three runs? We got three hits out of 27 attempts of with runners in scoring position. - No way. - Wait, so how many runs did we score? - Was scored, well, what was it, one, one, two, one. - So we scored four runs with 27 runners in scoring position. - Yep, that's exactly right. - What? - Well, how many bases loaded did we not come through? - I did everything. - I guess it wouldn't have been 27 different runners in scoring position. - No. - That would have been-- - Yeah, bases loaded with no outs. You know, we got two, two and two, that's six right there. - Oh my goodness. - Yeah. - And we had bases loaded all over the place. - Never came through. - No, the only-- - Blue came through once. - He should have made that catch, by the way. That left fielder, when Julio hit that blooper out there. - Yeah, I saw that. I was going, what, okay, we'll take it. - I'll take it, he should have caught that. An average left fielder makes that catch. So, oh man, that is, let's just end it on that. I don't know, you left me speechless on that. Three for 27 with runners in scoring position. - Yeah. - Somebody fact-check him on that. I mean, holy Toledo. What's the note there? - It's right there. - You want to end on that, Brad? - Well, that's where we're at. - That's okay. - Well, yeah. - Pittsburgh, we got the Dodgers. Turn it around. - Turn it around. - Got Paul Skeens and the Dodgers. Yeah, it's looking real bright for us. Well, meanwhile, the Astros play the White Sox. Yeah, but it's going to go great. Give us a like, give us a subscribe. Follow us on X. Go M's. Go in. (rock music) (rock music) (rock music) (rock music) (rock music) [MUSIC PLAYING]