Stage Whisper
Whisper in the Wings Episode 595
(upbeat music) - Welcome back in everyone to a fantastic new whisper in the wings from stage whisper. We are so, so excited about our guest today. Returning to us, we have the incredible playwright, co-screenwriter, actor, friend, amazing, amazing artist, Roger Q. Mason, as well as the incredible director and co-screenwriter, Level Holder. They're joining us today to talk about Lavender Man, a film based on the play by Roger Q. Mason. It's part of the out South Queer Film Festival and it's playing August 8th through the 15th at the Carolina Theatre. You can get your tickets and more information by visiting carolinatheatre.org. Now that title probably sounds very familiar because we actually had the privilege of speaking with Roger about this production a couple of times now, but it's being turned into a feature film. This is so exciting. So let's go ahead and welcome in our guest. Level, welcome into Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisper. Roger, welcome back. We kept your room all ready for you. So thanks for joining us. (laughs) - Thank you very much. - No, Andrew, it's such a pleasure. Thank you for having us. - Yes, I'm so excited about this. I'm so excited. A film version of this amazing, amazing story. Roger, let me start with you. Reminder listeners about what Lavender Man is about. - Well, Lavender Man, first of all, let me say that Lavender Man has been turned into a feature film. And so in order to adapt it for film, we have expanded the, what it's about to an extent. So Lavender Man, the film, is about a stage manager named Taffeta who works at a theater where she is both the necessary tool of everyone else's story, but she's also the object of their fantasy. And she has a series of unsavory things to occur to her during a production, which caused her to go into a fantasy to heal herself from the abuse and neglect of the people she works with at this theater. And along the way, she encounters Abe Lincoln and his lover, Elmer Ellsworth, and their journey of finding an authentic love and intimacy for each other. Forces Taffeta to think about why she has such emptiness in the bedroom for herself. And so the piece becomes a exploration of individual desire, voyeurism, and the need for kindness towards your fellow human being in the workplace and in the world. Let me tell you something. Every day is a winding road as the song says, and I'm grateful to be needed. I'm grateful that the road is receiving the work and that it's touching people and helping people. You know, a very interesting story comes to mind. We had finished the production of Lavender Man in Chicago. And I was having my post-production meeting with the artistic director. And she said, whenever you're putting on a show as a storefront theater in Chicago, you have 10 hats on and you can't really sit down and appreciate the work. So she said, "Finally, I was able to sit down "after I had taken off my hat as producer "and watched the play as an audience member." And she said, "I couldn't move after it ended "because as I was traveling home, "I realized something that my body had been changed "in some way. "Some physical transformation had occurred in me "as a result of participating as an audience member "in the narrative of Lavender Man." Now, of course, we're talking about Lavender Man, the play. But I think, I've always maintained that Lovele and I have cast a love spell through that piece and that there is certain blessing that comes along with any time it's done, no matter what the genre may be, whether it's a short film, a play, me doing a recitation, a movie, doesn't matter. Something about that particular narrative and that combination of characters moves people. And that's the stuff that you as a dramatist and as a writer, you spend your whole career chasing after the secret sauce of how to write a piece that will touch people universally in a way that it's so singular and specific to their lived experience while still reaching that many people. And that's really why Lovele and I said we need to make this into a movie because it had touched so many people coast to coast in its different forms as a play that we knew the next step for that work was to build a larger platform for that narrative. - And I would also add to that, Roger, kindness to oneself too. I think one of the things that we really learned in adapting the play for film was what was possible in terms of kind of cracking to open taffeta's psyche and their memories in a different way in a way that you can't do in theater where yes, you have the immediacy of speaking straight to the audience, but you can't have that flashback moment in the same way. We're suddenly you see viscerally taffeta's kitchen. You see what their home life looks like in a different way than theater can sometimes provide like in the flash of an instant. And so I think it really allowed us to sort of propose the question in a way that we couldn't in the play of why is taffeta telling this particular story? And even is it really the story that taffeta should be telling? And I think that was something that we really discovered through the course of filming and in the edit that that was really what the movie was about in a way that the play was kind of speaking to a more global questioning that the movie really zeroed in to become this kind of very, very intimate experience of what one person was dealing with in the world. Which I've always been a big believer that hyper specificity is the best way to get to universality. You know, the movie, you get a chance to see a little bit more of taffeta's home life. You get a chance to see a little bit more of her domestic and her romantic life visually in ways that a play has limitations around the world building like that. You also get a chance to learn in a way who she is outside of the sequences of the play where she's interacting with those characters, Abe and Elmer. So there was like an expansion moment, but it wasn't really this huge, you know, oh, we're setting it on the moon kind of thing. It was little subtle incremental changes that we made that really filled in the world so that it actually was both a larger narrative at the same time it was a much more intimate piece. You know, there's that 1960s cinema verite piece called Portrait of Jason. Which is about, you know, a queer person of color who is sort of a wild card, you know, knows this celebrity and that one. And basically sits at home and tells you all kinds of stories about themselves. And through the course of it, they sort of break down, you know, they get a little bit drunk or a little bit higher and they start falling apart. And that was for me a reference that I brought to our development table when we were thinking about how to adapt this for film, was how does this become part confessional, part sort of voyeuristic and, you know, and in some ways about this person's mind breaking down so that it can build back up in a way that you can't necessarily show as intimately on stage in the same way. And the other thing that I wanted to say is that in doing that, we kept a lot of those beautiful monologues that everybody loves from the play, but they were re-imagined because now you're talking to this fictitious listener. And instead of playing it to the rafters, I'm talking directly to you as a viewer, you in your little seat in that theater are gonna hear this. And I think in doing that, you're able to have an even more lasting and haunting impact on the listener and the viewer because they feel like they're being spoken to almost directly, you know, people talk about seeing Liza Manelli and feeling like she's singing directly to them. And that's sort of the mark of an iconic performance in a musician. So I like to think that we were able to tap into that immediacy and the intimacy of those monologues in this movie adaptation. - Yeah, I completely agree with everything Roger said. And I think one of the things that we kind of began to appreciate in a new way, 'cause we still kept so much of the piece set in the theater by making Taffeta the stage manager of a very, very bad Abe Lincoln play where we have like a full cast of characters running around and sort of the Taffeta's kind of living their life on the sidelines, both at work and within themselves. And I think one of the things that we really started started becoming aware of is the legacy of how the queer community sort of uses theater as a way to unpack and examine individual things and issues. I was recently introduced to a book by Edmund White called "Knock Turns for the King of Naples," which I hadn't read before. It's a beautiful book, I recommend it to anybody. But one of the chapters like made me see Lavenderman in the whole new light because the chapter follows the narrator as he and his current boyfriend reenact all his past romantic traumas in an empty theater because the boyfriend's a set designer and so they have access to the theater after dark. It felt so deeply in conversation with the experienced Taffeta has in this film. And so I think it ended up being such a gift that we leaned into the theatrical aspects that were originally in the play to kind of ground the film and say, while we are not basically just filming the play, we've very much sort of gone in and changed the circulatory system, even though the spine is still there. Like we did perform surgery, but it really became evident that this story had to be in a theater, it really did. And I think it really caused both Roger and I to sort of like think even more about like, okay, well, what type of theater do we want to do after this? And so I would venture to say that Taffeta taught us as much about ourselves as anything that Taffeta would impart to any audience member or our person who encounters the film. - I think, you know, and I'm gonna give away the ending because it's similar to the play. - It has 30 seconds listener if you don't want lavender men split. - If you don't want to go. - Well, she leaves the theater, you know? I mean, she leaves the theater. And, you know, I personally am dedicating my life to this medium of the theater. It is a sacred space for me. It is a place where I make meaning and create order of a chaotic world. It is a place where I find peace and purpose in my social work, my mentorship, and my educational outreach. And it is a place where I feel I am able to stimulate my mind in a way that will stave off dementia at least a little bit longer. So it's good for my cognition to be doing this kind of mental gymnastics of storytelling. This is a very intense act that we do as writers. The movie is still a love letter to the theater, but I think it is a challenge that we need to do better in how we treat and value the playmakers. How do we treat the people in the back of the room sitting in the dark, clicking the lights because it's who you are in the dark that is the reality of your value system. You know, my grandmother used to say, you are who you are when nobody's looking. And so this is the story of the girl who sits in the back of the room, who is in charge of managing other people's stories and has to sacrifice on some level her own for the benefit of other people. And at a certain point, she says, I can't do that anymore. I can't live for you and still maintain a few nuggets of me so that I can go home and have peace at night. And so in creating a narrative that challenges us to value, to honor, to give grace to those people that make this thing possible, I think we are challenging our industry to really revolutionize our relationship to labor and laborers. You know, we're still in a labor revolution, even though there are plenty of other headlines that have taken it over. We're still looking to build compensation for the small business. You know, here we are in an election year and I remember growing up, they'd always talk about small business owners. America's made up of many small businesses. Cottage industry, it used to be called. That was the beginning of this old idea. But we're still trying to find a space of value and of equal and fair compensation for the very people that are the backbone of our society and economy. And though the movie is not necessarily, you know, equal for no debts per se, we're still subtly rallying for the power of the worker. And that's not something that is lost on me when we write a movie about working in the theater in these times. You know, there's sort of a stigma, I think, around pieces that are set in the theater because they don't wanna seem like just a recording of the theater. And I'll say this, level rigorously and neurotically made you, that it was not a taping of a play, but it was a film whose primary location was this person's workplace in much the same tradition as Ingmar Bergman's chamber dramas. And that place is the theater. And more importantly, that place is the mindscape, the theater of the mind. And that's where I think the beauty of film is able to show the human imagination in a visual representation that we have to do through physicality and through language and theater. And to any of your listeners that are thinking about adaptation, what I would say is, those of y'all who know me know that Ms. Mason has an MFA in screenwriting. So actually Ms. Mason is officially trained and qualified. And I thought it too, to talk about this. And that's level, sorry, you know me. I'm on the soapbox, but we're just gonna split it up. - Up and up, up and up, does it matter? - Okay, so when I think about adapting, I think what is the central human question of this piece because that could remain similar. And now, how do I employ a visual-based medium to tell that story? That means the axis point is gonna change. Now, we're not gonna do the whole lecture 'cause y'all gonna have to pay me for that glass, but you think about the axis point. Now, if the play is about language and speaking and embodying in the moment, and then the film is about what I see and how that affects how I feel about myself, my perception of self shifts because of what I've seen, but the core question is still the same. How do I find myself in a world that doesn't see me? That we never veered from. How it was done is depending on the medium, that's what shifted. So that just gives you a little insight into adaptation for us and then that can apply to other films. Did I misspeak on that? - No, I thought that was beautifully articulated, Roger, for sure. I am loving all that, I love all the points you are making. This just shows how timely this story continues to be, that this work continues to be. So I love that. Love, I wanna ask you, you know, the film is getting ready for its world premiere in just under a month at the time of this recording. What was it like developing the piece? - No, I mean, it was, it was such a joy 'cause we were able to do so much in conjunction with the world premiere of the play because Roger and I were working together so closely that we were kind of able to sort of, it was almost like sort of raising twin children in the sense that on some levels, they're identical, but they also have different interests and like passion. So it's a matter of like saying like, okay, we know that they're both going to be going to swim class, but after swim class, Lavenderman, the movie is gonna go up to fencing class and Lavenderman, the play is gonna go to a cooking class. Like, so it was, it was just kind of like figuring out, okay, which little aspects need to shift given the medium, but also really taking stock of what do we have access to? And I think to the spirit of independent theater and independent film, they do kind of go hand in hand. It's like, what allows us to best take the resources we have in front of us and make sure that those things end up on screen. And so, and trusting in relationships too, 'cause I think we can't lose sight of the fact that part of the joys of this development process was the collaborators that we had. Like, for example, Pete Plosick and Alex Isola, who had been our even Elmer in the world premiere of the play, we obviously knew we wanted to keep working with them for the film because we obviously adore them, but also because from a resources standpoint, simultaneously, no one would know those characters better and be able to instantly access and understand those, the scenes in the time that we had, then two genius actors who had already been living with the characters for three months. And consequently, it allowed us the opportunity to work with really trusted collaborators that Roger and I both adore, like our producers Mia Chang and Mia Ellis, our mama Mia's, as we call them. (laughing) And, 'cause we also, we were still kind of in the tail end of the dark days of COVID when we were going into production. So, like people were very much wearing multiple hats. I mean, Mia Ellis was literally in her, 'cause she plays one of the supporting parts in the movie, was literally like in her full hoop skirt 1860s dress, running COVID tests for people while she was getting makeup done, and her capacity is both producer and cast member, Gillian Williams, who is also one of our cast members, was also like very deeply involved with the development and like helping Roger understanding Taffeta. Like Gillian also there in her hoop skirt, like while she was doing other tasks. So it was very much a team effort, a family effort, but I think, and I mean, I'll let Roger speak to this as well, 'cause we've both had so many different projects in theater and film where you're in the room and you know everybody's not on the same team. And so it was really wonderful and gratifying to know that every single person who was in that room, but both for the original play, and also for the film adaptation, everyone was going toward the same goal, everyone believed in the same story, and everyone was actively looking for solutions, no one was ever looking to make a problem. And I think that's something that happens so rarely, in the arts and so we very much benefited and were blessed by that throughout both development and production. - Let me tell you something, level is an extraordinary producer, okay? And you don't find that many of those in a lifetime, okay? Level was extremely savvy about how to coordinate our efforts to seamlessly transition from the world premiere of the play into the filming of the motion picture. All of the film crew and design members came to the play multiple times to see the work. The reason for that was one, to focus their efforts creatively, but also to build morale and coordination. And more importantly than all of that, was to scope out the space and to scope out our behavior in the space as actors, because remember many of the middle scenes, the fantasy would then become the fantasy scenes in the movie. So a majority of what we were filming was a variation of her fantasy, which followed some of the blocking points in relationship. Now we changed a lot of them because the camera, you know, you have to have certain relationships to space. But they at least got a chance to see how we as actors, the three of us, Pete, Alex and I, interacted in physical space, so that when they started doing shot listing and design meetings for the film, it was a really swift transition without much argument. 'Cause you see, you know, there's that thing in film, what they call creative differences, you know? We didn't have no time of money for that shit. You ain't got no time for argument, child. We got $2 and five minutes to film this movie. So we gotta get it together before we show up and let's roll. I remember, remember at level that, that steady cam man? - Yes. - Yes. - And Drew, let me tell, let me tell y'all something. I'm not going-- - I'm not going-- - I'm not going to-- - I'm not going to-- - I think his name was-- - What was his name? - Just me and Nancy. - Yeah. - Mia, Mia Chang whispered in my ear. - She said that man is extremely expensive right before I went on. I said, "I got one shot, don't I?" She said, "Maybe two." I said, "Okay." - So we were also coming down to the point where we had like, if we went like 15 minutes longer, we were going to hit horrible over time and it would have had total ramifications on the next day of filming, which was light dependent 'cause we were doing exteriors that day. And so, yeah, you finished the story, Roger, and then I'll praise you. - I don't know what I was going to say with it. She said it was expensive, so I got it out there and I did it in one take and everyone was like, "Oh damn, okay, Miss Mason, you know how to throw down." - No, I mean, it was a bit of like, Roger, it was just, it was masterful. It was everything we needed and more. And Mia Chang and I were literally 'cause like, 'cause part of the issue with this one take was that you saw the whole, it was one of the few ones where you saw the whole theater. So there was nowhere anyone could hide. So we were all like crammed up into little spaces behind foreigners and like curtains 'cause like you need, Roger need to be able to see the whole audience and the whole set and everything. And literally the camera just zoomed around around. Roger landed this whole long, did not stutter, did not, anything just like landed this whole each directly to camera. And Mia Chang is like silently hitting my arm, like in the side, like we got it, we got it. - Well, because I knew, I knew I had one take and five minutes, it's what I'm saying. You know, and moments like that. - And that is very much the take that is in the film. - Yeah, that's the one, it is only one. But moments like that really stretch your artistry, you know, because you have to be, I'm gonna say this, you know, people say, oh, being a theater actor makes you a good film actor. I also think being a great film actor makes you a good theater actor because you have to be extremely kind to the body because these are long days. And nothing is in order, you know, it's not like you can have a whole panoramic journey in sequential order. You have to be extremely honest and emotionally available in that moment. And that moment is not gonna have a moment before that you can, you have to be right there. So it means you're lying in wait with all of this creative energy, mounting and then boom. Now all of a sudden everything in you is coming to the forefront. And it's gotta be honest because the camera does not lie. And you will know immediately if an actor is not telling the truth on screen, you'll see it. You will literally see it. Their eye will look insincere. And when you're in indie film, you don't have the luxury of multiple 20 million takes. You know, you see those sort of plays where people are filming something and it's like take 25. You didn't got no take 25. You got about three. And especially when you're doing a, what was it, a 10 day shoot? - Yeah. - So you have to really manage your relationship to time. So it makes you a much more emotionally efficient person. Also off the screen. It makes you-- - But I just can't say Roger, I think that was one of the things that, I was saying to Andrew before you popped up on, was that what you are such a master of as a performer is just you're just, I describe it as radical presence. Like you're just, so you flip the switch and just kind of like, you're there and whatever comes is what comes. And it's innately truthful. And then we need to do another where we swing it a different way slightly to the left, slightly to the right, both metaphorically and literally we do. But like, it's such a, it's the kind of thing that just can't be taught that you just so innately, intuitively do as a performer. - And I don't remember that tape. I really don't. Like, and it's not that I'm not paying attention. It's not that. It's that I've paid such hypertension to a particular moment that now I release it and it's gone. And that's true of me on stage, on screen and also in life. I'm very sincere. I don't really do all of this premeditation and contrivance. I'll just tell you exactly what I say, what I mean and I mean what I say. And then that's it. And I don't hold it. You know, I believe in karmic justice. I try and not hold a lot of this stuff on me. 'Cause there's so much in the world that will stick to us emotionally. You know, so long before we started instituting, you know, formal practices like derolling, I just instinctively knew that I had to let a lot of these things go because especially when you're talking about such intense personal material, like what is depicted in this play, you have to be able to depersonalize it, you know, and also have some constructive distance from it or else you'll go nuts, you know. And I think you have the most free performances when you know that each time you're doing it, you can be a completely different person. I can discover it anew. And that's the constant between me as the theater artist and me as the film artist is I look at every take or in theater, every performance as a new invitation to find something different about the world of the piece. And I enjoy that, you know, when we would do different takes, I think we would purposefully have different tonal interpretations of each scene when we were doing the movie. And we, you know, you mentioned Gillian Williams, but I mean, there's not enough said about her brilliance and really to have someone on set like that, you know, Gillian was essentially my onsite acting guru. I won't even say acting coach, it was more like a guru. And I understand why, you know, Meryl Streep and Nicole Kidman and all those kind of folks have those folks on set with them 'cause you need somebody to really center you. And it made, I think, it made for a more efficient shoot for you because a lot of that equivocation around how to interpret something for the camera, we were able to get to much more quickly because we had a second set of eyes in the room that was looking out for us and helped us maximize the creative time that we had. So really all hats off to Gillian Williams. - And I was also gonna say to the kind of close the loop on this particular thread is, in terms of adaptation, I think that filmmaking for a theater artist, like the best description I could give to it is it's you're in a constant state of tech in that you're trying to do everything over and over again until you really get it right once and then you move on. And I think, and it presents different types of exhaustion 'cause it means you can be doing some very, very intense work repeatedly and then you let it go. Whereas like in a play, normally you only have to do it once and you keep moving, but it's a different type, it's different types of marathons and different types of sprints. But I would say just like for anyone listening who hasn't been on a film said, I would say that the best analogy is just a constant state of tech that that's the best connection I can give. (dramatic music) (dramatic music) - Well, my final question for this first part is with this show, with this film premiering at the out South Queer Festival at the Carolina Theater, who were you hoping to have access to the work, not only at this film festival, but beyond it? - Well, I mean, as a native North Carolinian, I'm thrilled that out South has taken such a chance on us and has given us such a platform and we do have some other festivals that have been coming through that unfortunately we're not allowed to speak about yet, but it's such an interesting time for Queer Film in America right now, not just politically, but also just logistically that a lot of the venues that have historically given opportunities for queer films to enter the marketplace have been drying up over the last few years. Like, for example, Outfest, which historically is almost generally regarded as like the most prominent queer film festival in the country is no longer operational. Hopefully it will come back, but there's no indication right now that it necessarily will, that I'm aware of. And so it's an interesting marketplace to be entering, but I think we're very committed to doing the work to make sure that the people who need to find this movie do and that starts with festivals. And I think it's great that we are starting in the South, which is not traditionally regarded as like, oh yes, the beacons of liberalism, et cetera, et cetera, but that there are the communities there that do want to see this movie and I feel very grateful for it, we're providing that for them. - You know, my family's from Texas originally. And I grew up in a household where my aunt was born in 1892. So I might as well have been in Del Valley, Texas, because that's how we were raised, you know? We had chicken shulupi on Friday. We had green beans and ham hocks at some point during the week. So beans and corn bread on Sunday, okay? That was the house that we grew up in. So sometimes life shows you what you've done. We submitted this film to everybody. And when this one came through as the first one, it made sense because the two of us are two queer folks from the South, and we're speaking to our people. And, you know, I spent a few years studying at UNC Asheville in their program in collaboration with Middlebury College's Breadlow School of English. And it was really through working at Asheville that I found this play actually. A lot of the underpinnings of this piece came out of the time I was spending touring down there. And my sensibilities as a writer, not just on this piece, but on others, are very influenced by, of course, folks like Tennessee Williams, but also Thomas Woolf. And anybody that spends any amount of time with me when I'm just talking, knows that it's always a mid-julep jamboree when I start telling the story, 'cause it's always gonna be cyclical, and it's always gonna surprise you where we end up at the end, 'cause I don't know. I can't tell you where we're gonna end up. I forgot where we started by the time I got there. So I really, I know in my heart that the right presenting house came to us to launch this piece in Durham, North Carolina, which is one of the fonts of new critical thought around race, economics, and politics in this country. What's it called, the research triangle? Isn't that what you said that's called down there? I mean, and medical too, you know, especially down there, do medical. They're doing a lot of the hard work to figure out how we can make this country better and fairer and more efficient for the benefit of all people. So it makes sense that that's the place where a piece like this, which is challenging us to be better to each other, would be hosted with warm, open arms at that festival. I also think, you know, for love, I know it's a homecoming artistically for you to have this piece in North Carolina. And it is for me as well, because I think a lot about what I learned while I was doing those tours of the South, particularly in North Carolina, coming into myself as a Southern person and also as a queer person. I really learned a lot of those sensibilities down there. There's an audacity to exist unapologetically in the South. Sometimes I don't agree with some of the ways that manifest in certain demographics. But no matter what, one thing I will say is I've always felt like folks in the South will be very honest. They'll tell you exactly what they mean. And there is a sense of community and of honesty around the South that I have always appreciated. I have felt more whenever I go down to the South, whether it's in North Carolina or also my other hub where I like to go down there in Atlanta, there's something that feels so right and so familiar to me because I think it reminds me a lot about the home that I was in. And I start walking a little differently and it feels right. And I don't have to translate some of my isms 'cause they know what they are, you know? I feel very much at home. So I think you're asking about the audience for this piece. I'm glad that we're starting there. The opportunity of distribution, which is the next phase for Project 'cause I recognize this is the theater show. So some of this is a bit of ambassadorship for our listeners who are learning about how to go from theater to film. The next opportunity for this piece is to be distributed which means that now it would have some access to platforms that broadcast it more broadly on some sort of service, whether it's, you know, like Netflix or some more specialized services like Open TV Revolt or something to that. You know, maybe I'm miss speaking about the names and the brands, but the general idea is that you would be able to distribute it to some outlet that would make it more readily available to a larger population that might subscribe to such service. That's the point, that's the point at which I think the piece will really be able to reach the markets where it's needed and where it does the most social work. And that's really where we're putting our heads now. One is to build, you know, goodwill along the way through this film festival and the others where we might be going alone, you know. And then after that, to then enhance the visibility of the project and build on the momentum from this festival tour to then get it distributed. And if I were to say who the film is for, I would say it's a love letter to my people, my plus size POC people so that they know that they are beautiful and they are seen and they have great value in the world. And it's also, I think, a challenge to those who might look away from people who don't think or act or feel like them to be a little bit kinder to them and look at them as a whole person with a full life that is deserving of grace and affirmation just like the rest of us. - And I was gonna say on that note too, if anyone's listening who really just is intrigued by the project, like the best way you can help right now is look and see if there's a film festival near you and drop them a line or an email and say that you're looking to see lavender men and hopefully they will then take note of that and then reach out to us. So that's one way you wanna help the film that's an incredibly helpful one. - I love that. Well, as we wrap things up, I would love to know do either of you have any other projects or productions coming on the pipeline? I mean, Roger, you are coming off the summer of Roger National Tour from San Francisco to Chicago to Philadelphia. And now I know you're coming to New York with your show "The Pink" at Cavio. Can you tell us a bit about that? Are there any other projects you two have? - Oh, yeah, I can start us off with that. So yes, the pink is gonna have a reading at Cavio in the Lower East Side on August 5th. I don't remember the time but I know I'm due there in the morning. And then actually you're gonna find out soon but I'll preview it here that I'm gonna be giving a very special reading of "The Pride of Lions" in New York with I don't know if I'll be in it or not but we're going to be doing that in September. I'll announce that date soon, just a one afternoon thing. And then next year, 2025, I'm gonna be launching a trilogy of plays that I wrote called "The Caliphus Trilogy" about California and the blessing and bane of Western expansion. So we're gonna talk a little bit about gentrification though on it and that'll be next year between May and July. And I'll just talk about that much for right now but there's other things coming as well. - Oh, I'm so excited about all this. This is fabulous. Love it, what about you? - Yes, though a movie I produced called "Peak Season" will be coming out in theaters on August 2nd. So it'll be in New York, LA, Chicago, DC, most of the major cities. And it's really, really sweet, a rom-com set in Jackson Hole, Wyoming between a young woman who goes on a summer trip with her fiancee and strikes up an unlikely friendship with a wilderness guide there. So yeah, we premiered it South by Southwest and now taking it out wide and hopefully it'll be somewhere near folks and if not, it will be out on VOD on September 3rd and then aside from Lavender Men, I have a first novel that I wrote which is currently called "The Book of Luke" will be coming out from a shet and Grand Central Publishing in December of 2025. So a little bit of ways away but going ahead and planting that one. So just 'cause I'm excited and hopefully people will buy that book. - Buy the book, buy the book, level. I wanted to say this about level. There is no one I know who is more dedicated to the power of the written word. Level understands that it is a spiritual act to invoke the word and whether it's in theater, film, or now novel writing, he really understands and embraces the alchemy and the transformative power of language. It is in some ways a religion for him and one that I deeply admire and appreciate, not just as a collaborator but also as a student of that understanding of what language can do to people. And I've known love half of my life since I was what, 18 years old, 19 years old? - Yeah, we were both 19, yeah. - Yeah, and to spend a life with somebody that understands the world and how to express that world in the same ways that you do is a great blessing and a unique gift that the spirit has brought us together. So I just wanna say that about you and all of us. - But you know, I feel the exact same way and to kind of, I guess, close it off. I will say during the thick of the pandemic, when we weren't sure when we were gonna be putting the play up or anything like that and the movie wasn't even a twinkle in our eyes yet, I remember just standing in the shower and locked down. I was just like, "Well, really, what are my top five favorite plays?" And I was like, "Oh, Angels in America, Arcadia, Twelfth Night." And then truly, sincerely, Lavender Men was there in that top five for me. And I just continue to feel so grateful that I had the opportunity and that Roger trusted me to direct the first production and to do the film adaptation because I really, I do think it's such a singular story. I think Roger captured something so special here when they first put pen to paper. 'Cause truly, and I will say this to anyone who will listen, no one can come up with a premise like Roger Cumeisen, every single thing they touch. Like you go into something by Roger knowing that you've never seen anything else quite like it. And I just feel very fortunate that I got to be along for this particular journey. And we're both so grateful to you, Andrew, for having us today. - Absolutely. And I've never seen anything like it either because I make my life up as I go. So I don't know what I would say. And, you know, to end that too level, you know, for me to watch you really be able to flourish and have people learn about your work as a writer is a tremendous joy for me. And I'm honored and humbled to be on your list of the top five plays. Because one day, a newspaper article will ask you to name your top five plays. And I'm going to need you to repeat that. (both laughing) Because that's going to help me with my book sales and this thing gets published. So thank you so much. - Oh, I mean, it'll help me too. I think I get a percentage. It'll help me too. - That's true, that's true. (both laughing) - I love it. Well, it sounds like you both have some fantastic irons in the fire. And that's a great lead into my final question, which is, if our listeners were like more information about Lavenderman, the film, or about either of you, maybe they'd like to reach out to you, how can they do so? - You can find us all on Instagram. Lavenderman has its own Instagram, which is @lavendermanfilm. I am @level.holder. And Roger, I'll let you give all your, you're the maven of social media. So I'll let you do on your own. - I'm chatting, I'm chatting. - Yeah, I'm chatting, remember mine. (both laughing) - Is that Roger Q.Mason? - That's it, the Instagram is @RogerQ.Mason. And I'm on there. And then a lot of it gets forwarded to Facebook. And that's just Roger Q based on Facebook. So you can find me there. And I do a little cooking thing on there from time to time called Cooking with Q. And we did some barbecue recently. So look out for that too. (both laughing) - Wonderful. Well, Roger level, thank you both so much for taking the time to speak with me for sharing this amazing film. I'm so excited, so excited for that. And I can't wait to see what also comes next. So thank you both so much for your time. - Thank you, Andrew, thank you for having us. - Thank you, thank you very much. - It's been my pleasure. My guests today have been the amazing Playwright co-screenwriter and actor, Roger Q.Mason and the incredible director and co-screenwriter, Level Holder. They joined us to talk about Lavenderman, a film based on the play by Roger Q.Mason and it's having its world premiere at the outside queer film festival. The film has been showed August 8th through the 15th at the Carolina Theatre. And you can get your tickets and more information by visiting carolinatheatre.org. We also have some contact information for our guests, which will be posting on our episode description as well as on our social media. And you are going to want to keep tabs on these two. They continue to change the world and create such fabulous work. So make sure you check out all of their plays, films, books, everything they're putting out. Make sure you get the chance to see them when you do. And that especially includes this upcoming world premiere of the film, Lavenderman, August 8th through the 15th at the Carolina Theatre. So until next time, I'm Andrew Cortez, reminding you to turn off your cell phones, unwrap your candies, and keep talking about the theater. - In the stage whisper. - Thank you. 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