Stage Whisper
Whisper in the Wings Episode 591
(upbeat music) - Hello everyone and welcome back into a fantastic new Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisper. Join us as we continue to bring you coverage of the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And today we've got a show that's coming off their performance at the East to Edinburgh Fringe Festival at 50, 90, 59 theaters here in New York and is packing their bags and getting ready to head on over to Scotland to put up this amazing production. Joining us today we have Serena Frida who's the playwright and performer of the piece and Tom Costello who is the co-creator and director. They're here to talk to us about no, no, no, please, no God, no, nevermind, I'm fine, which is part of the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. It's playing August 2nd through the 24th but is dark on the 11th at the Space UK. You can get your tickets and more information by visiting edfringe.com. This is a fantastic show, a fantastic show that we cannot wait to learn more about and to be sharing with you. So with that, let us welcome on our guests, Serena, Tom, welcome in to Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisper. - Thank you so much. - Thank you so much. - I am excited to have you here. I am excited to dive into this piece. This is just a little blurb on the 59E59 website. I was like, oh, oh wait, hold on. I need to know more about this. How did I miss the boat on this show? Yes, I'm buying a plane ticket now. - Start with you as the playwright, as the performer. Tell us a bit about what this show is about. - Yeah, I mean, it is very much inspired from true events and LSD psychedelic experience I had in 2021. And I, after the experience happened, I was like, oh, there's something here that I need to share. But I wasn't really ready or didn't really even know what I wanted to say about it. But it was truly profound. And with the help of Tom and an outside eye kind of helping me see, you know, from like a character point of view and also my own story point of view, like finding a way to bring those two things together and like give someone a journey to go on is really kind of what we've created as a mix between both the real events and a spiritual journey that is sort of needing to be happening for this person. There's probably maybe a boat we're coherent way of describing this. - Yeah, Tom wants to take a slash at it. - Yeah, I think that, well, Serena came to me in 2022, in 2021, but he was like weeks after. - Yes. - And told me the story of what happened and said, I want to make a play out of this. And I said, I would love to direct it. And, you know, if we drove in trying to figure out what's the, what is the most exciting and truthful way of representing, I think the deeper truth that this experience gets at, beyond just, I think, the events of that day. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, we spent a lot of time talking about the whole life, literally like what it means to be alive and meaning and purpose and also a lot about dumb jokes and physical comedy and psychedelics and a really a wide range of things that we touched upon in the show. Yeah. - I love that. I love that. This is fantastic. I love it. So as you two mentioned, I mean, it's based on a personal experience. You literally took something that happened to you and went, there's something more there. There's something that I want to turn into a story. So Serena, I want to start first with you on this question and ask, what has it been like developing this piece, especially when you're getting ready for the Edinburgh Fringe Festival? - Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's been really challenging. It's been really hard to sort of like step away from it and be like, oh, this is a character. Like I'm writing a character. This isn't just my life. Like it's based on my life, but like it can't just be me, Serena, because like that would be too close. And that would be just hard to, you have to separate yourself. I had to like speak of the character as her instead of like me because it just gets too emotional and personal. And I think in the process of creating it though, has been like so eye opening because I think a huge part of this process is like, I'm telling the story of my life as I'm kind of figuring these things out in real time. And so the play has like shifted over the past couple of years with the lessons that like I've learned in my life and have been able to articulate with the people in the room and kind of taking away how like the experience itself is a story and existed at one time. But the lessons and the change from that experience continues to evolve every single day. And that I think cyclical nature of learning lessons and experiencing, not experiencing, but like learning the lessons of the thing over and over and over again and learning how it's a new lesson kind of every single time but is also the same lesson every single time. Like that cyclical cycle is really like what the show is trying to do. And that has been my experiencing making it and also my experience like actually living in the world. So it's a bit meta in that sense. - That it's fantastic talking about you. I mean, being the person on the outside looking in, if you will and as the director, you know, what has it been like developing the piece? - I think our goal the entire time has been to create an experience for the audience that feels as revelatory as the LSD trip could have been could have been for use arena. I think that like that doesn't mean that we're necessarily trying to create a drug simulation on stage. But we are trying, what we're really interested in, what is it like to become aware of our reality? Describe the play as a coming of age story. That at the end of the day, I think a lot of coming of age stories are about like what is our responsibility as humans, as individuals? And what do we, what does it mean to be alive and how do we walk through the rock on the earth every day, taking care of the things we need to take care of? How do we take stock of the things that are meaningful to us? How do we take stock of the people that are meaningful to us? And sometimes life feels really dark and hard. And how do we get through that? And also sometimes life feels really silly and stupid. And how do we live with that too? And so I think like we've been trying to keep, this is my long way of answering your question is that we've been trying to figure out how to hold, I think, trying to let this show act in some ways as a container for the many things that for the two of us, we perceive like what it means to be alive in a play that has to do with drugs, but also has to do with death. And it's been really exciting to figure out how something that feels is absurd as breathing air every day and our body's keeping us alive for whatever purpose that might be. And finding a play that helps tell that story. - I love it. I actually want to snowball off of that thought, Tom, and ask you, you know, is there a message or thought and you hope audiences take away from the piece? - To use the drug comparison again is that I think all drugs, whether they're illegal or they are prescribed, they're meant to do something physical, to make, to do something to the body, to help people interact with the world and get through their days more comfortably. They're all there, they're meant to give people a positive experience. And I do think that even more than I think maybe having any idea in people's minds from this play, I do want them to hopefully perceive the world as if with, I want them to perceive the world with a greater clarity than when they walked in. So when they walk outside, there's those rare artistic experiences we have where we return to the life we had before and we're able to see it with greater clarity and distance and perspective. And so hopefully that's like, that's the ideal that we hope for this. - 100%. - Yeah, Serena, anything you'd like to add to that? - Yeah, I mean, I think too, it's like, I think, you know, we were constantly kind of trying to search for like, and then she figures this thing out and that is like the crack, like the end then she gets it. And I think we've created something kind of beautiful of like, oh, there really isn't like one thing to get. I think that's something that like happens when you're on these like drugs is like you're like, I figured it out, like I figured the thing out, figured out life. And I think when I was making this thing, I was like, oh, I need to figure it out. I need to tell people what I figured out. And really, it's actually like just like quite simple, is that like we're going to be in a constant stage of figuring it out forever and like allowing that to be okay, and that we're not trying to walk away being like, here's the answer, but like, you're going to be on a constant search for answers and like finding a willingness to be graceful with yourself and patient, I guess you're all not journey. - Because it's wisdom, I think there's more wisdom than intelligent or... - Revelation. - Yeah, because wisdom is spiritual and it's physical, it's experiential. And so I think that that's probably why I think we're trying to get to a place of understanding. And that's I think we're coming back to the coming of age or think about people who are, eyes are talking to some of the people who are much older than us who have enjoyed the play is that we're tapping into something that feels very true whether or not it's easily articulation words. We had one of our collaborators, Father's Games, who's an addiction psychologist. - Yes. - And he said to us, and I don't think I fully understand why and he doesn't even have the words for it, but he said that he's like, you tapped into something that I've seen in a lot of people. You managed to articulate the thing that people have understood from this. And he really appreciated that that nebulousness being able to be felt in some way in the room. - Yeah, and then on the other side of that, it's like, there's this professional, but then I have so many people in my life who are in their mid 20s being like, oh, this play really speaks to what it means to be in your mid 20s. And what's so beautiful about all these things, it's like, no, it just really speaks to what it means to be alive and everyone can come at it with their own state of being. And that I think has been the best kind of reaction that we can ask for is everyone can finally find something within it that is themselves. - We spent a while with this reading. All right, there's definitely a day that we were working that I just grabbed my copy of "Our Town" because there was just times that we were talking about, like, how can we find a way to articulate the experience of being a living and reading human on the planet and reading some of those passages and some of the passages that I know how to quote from memory 'cause I really love that play, but it's, yeah, there's just something about that. Ineffable thing, it's like close to the end of play, but just talking about the ineffable, like there's a lot of things that are hard to put into words, but we're trying to get into experience, which all art is, art isn't like the art at its best, in its best moment is transcendent. We go to our, hopefully, to forget ourselves for a minute so that we can then remember ourselves in a different way. - I love that. I love the depth that you've continued to explore and are trying to connect with the audience with, so that is fabulous and a great lead into my final question for this first part, which is who are you hoping to have access to your piece? And Tom, can I kick that off with you first? - I've made plays that I think more about the demographic of people that it's intended for. I do think what we're talking about feels secretly to be a very universal human experience. What it means to be alive. And I could imagine that some of the people I know who cut across all demographics, who live lives of difficulty and sometimes find a lot of existential suffering for whatever reason. I would hope that this is something for them that provides them some element of spiritual relief. I will also say, and this is often the case when we're talking about this play, there are so many dumb jokes in this play. There's actually so many stupid things that we put in this play that we like, for all it says about the difficulties of being alive and death and like, what is it worth it to be alive? There's just so much time that we spent being really stupid. And so I also like for those people, it's not just only being seen, but also through some of that comedy, hopefully being told that it's okay. You're not only that you're not alone, but it's okay and it can be enjoyable. Not even that, but it's like that you're okay. And that it's incredibly important and also completely insignificant at the same time. Whatever that thing is that's weighing down on you. - I think the demographic question has come up a lot and I'm like, that's cool. But I think that ultimately, I think it's been really special to talk to people who have struggled with the question, like, why do I wanna be alive? And I think when those people have come up to me with varying levels of like emotion in the moment, I think those conversations are particularly special. Whether or not I like want it to be for them or someone else is like not really the question, but those are significant moments I think, especially to be like, oh yeah, this question that you have, there is no like answer to it, but the fact that someone's posing it, the fact that someone's trying to find an answer, like, kind of just speaks to the experience of asking the question. - We've only played before on the play six times so far, but I would be curious to know because there's a lot of direct address in the play and Serena speaks directly to the audience in many moments. Are there ways in which various people have listened that you've even just like made eye contact with people that have surprised you? - Yeah. I mean, there's moments where I speak to someone and I make fun of the fact that there's people crying in the audience for me and as like a hyperbolic, like everyone is losing their minds over my experience. And oftentimes the person I choose one person to say that to you over and over again. And oftentimes the person who I'm speaking to like is crying. And so it is like a weird like moment to like take in their experience and like, I don't know, you get a little scared. Like you're like, oh, am I allowed to keep kind of invading your space like this? 'Cause you are having this experience. And then at the same time, like there's people who are kind of like shaking their heads like, yeah, like I've had that experience too, I guess. But then it's like, I kind of make fun of myself in the next moment being like, yeah, this is pretty like everyone knows this like, I don't know, I'm trying to think of a good moment, but like it just like, I feel like, I don't know, it's cool to watch people kind of feel like they're ahead and sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't. - Because it's a pretty high energy play, I think we thought that maybe some of our older audience members would have felt like it was a little bit too like frenetic in its energy. 'Cause there's times that it would kind of capture some of the overwhelm of being alive through a very active sonic landscape. And the responses we've gotten I think have been surprising and what people connected to and what they felt, yeah, how they're coming to it, yeah. - And how we made sense of it. It's kind of nonsense for... And sometimes you just don't need to really know why that's happening, it's the more like the experience of it. - It's just interesting. (upbeat music) - Well, for the second part of our interviews, we love giving our listeners a chance to get to know our guests a little bit better, pick your brains, if you will. And I wanna start by asking the two of you, what or who inspires you? What playwrights, composers or shows have inspired you in the past or are just some of your favorites? And Serena, can I start with you first on that, please? - Oh, really, yeah. Well, I'm a huge fan of Kaper Land and her work. I was lucky enough to see Kate her solo show three times and the first time I saw it was in LA in its like workshop phase. And it was fascinating because I saw it in April and it was like, you know, it was funny. Like she's hilarious and she's amazing but it was like missing a through line of story. Like it wasn't like, it wasn't done yet. She was still in mid-process. And it was so inspiring to watch someone who I had looked up to for so long and continue to look up to like be in process and not know the answer and like still get on stage and still do their work and still be like, yeah, I don't know. Like I don't know if this, I don't know what I'm doing. Like I'm still figuring it out. And then to see it like six months later, popping off like truly an amazing piece and watch how like, oh, you know, you have to go through that phase of like, this thing is only okay. Because like the crazy thing about theater is like you have to do it for people before it's ready. Ready in quotes, what does that mean? I don't know, but like you're getting so much information from your audience and watching someone so talented, like not yet know the answers like really made me feel like, oh yeah, I don't have to know all the answers all the time either. Like this is gonna take time and it's gonna be a process and seeing that from mid-process to final production was sort of a life changing experience honestly. And she continues to blow me away. So yeah, that's a big one for me. - That is awesome. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. - Of course. - Tom, how about you? I mean, you hadn't mentioned in the previous part how much you love Our Town. Any others that inspire you? - Yeah, well, I think there's definitely some, there's like two categories of plays I think that inspire us, especially in relation to this work. And some of them fall into the category of plays like Our Town and the work with Orton Wild. There's some of those other one acts he wrote in advance of Our Town. And Exit the King, I think is another great one that has to do with the meaning of being alive. There might not be no one that comes to me in a second, but the other kind of category play I would say is that some of the playwrights, I think, were really amazing at talking about what it means to make a piece of art, a piece of performing art. I say a playwright who makes theater. I think David Henry Wong, Jackie Sibley's Jewelry, Duncan McMillan, like I think that the plays like for David Henry Wong, I would say. And Butterfly and Yellow Face and Soft Power. All three of those, I think, are really interesting. I think about how they talk about and they kind of play with reality versus fantasy in the same way that with the effects of the jewelry that I would say that Fairview and we are proud to present and Mary C. Cole, which I especially love. And I think like people places and things from Duncan McMillan as well. Like all of these plays I think have been, we talked about, I think, there's some version of those plays around all of these pieces around this piece, around all of our workshop process because of how they also work with the line between reality and fiction. And especially an artist-created fiction. But I think they've been very influential. They're such good plays that if anybody doesn't know them, they're lucky to see them, I can't wait for Yellow Face to come back to New York this fall. - I love that as well. That is a fantastic answer. - Well, that is a great lead-in to my favorite question to ask guests, which is what is your favorite theater memory? - I had an experience. I did a study abroad program in Amsterdam and one of the projects we had was to tell a story and then make a theater piece. We had like only a couple of days to do, it was just like a little, you know, exercise. But the idea of the exercise was like to make it entirely by yourself. Like you couldn't really ask for help. You couldn't even have someone like turn on a light switch for you. Like you had to do it entirely on your own. And I thought it was really exciting to see what people made, but like truly what I took away from it was like, theater is not meant to be made alone. Like you can't do this by yourself ever. And it really reminded me of how just crucial a team is. And how special it is to have so many people offering themselves to the piece and how you're making something that is like so beyond just you or just one person, and especially like working on the solo show. Like, I mean, Tom has just been like an integral part of the show. It is something we share completely. And my partner is the sound designer and the sound designer. I mean, it's insane. I think we've got like over 700 sound moments in the play. Like there's like he's going crazy up there on the board. And the lighting is unbelievable. And my friend Jean made the cost. Like it's all just like, it's such a, it takes a village. And that sense of like community and purpose is like, I think why I do it and why I was first drawn to it. And I'm constantly being reminded by it. And this was like the most perfect experience to remember that. So yeah, that that is for me. That is a fantastic memory. Wow. And shout out to all those friends and whatnot that are designing. Oh my God. It's insane. Wow. It's really insane. I like, um, billions of dollars. I think like it is insane. It's insane. It's insane. They've given so much. Well, Tom, what about you? What's your favorite theater memory? I love all my children equally. I think I'll answer it two ways. One is maybe as an audience member. There's a few plays I saw that I feel really. There's occasionally, I described this already, but there's occasionally a time where you leave a theater and you just feel so grateful to have been in that room. I actually remember that's just coming to me now. I remember feeling it by the first time I saw Stereoponic. I just was, I felt so lucky to be watching that play. I felt really grateful to be in the presence of that art and seeing all of those people working at the top of their game. But I, the father first came to me. I remember I went to see Exit the King on Broadway and I think they used to live down in Chelsea and I walked home. And I just felt my entire physical presence was buzzing. Like, like everything was buzzing. And I think I went up to my roof and I just sat there and held the play in my mind for as long as I could. It was just so present with me because it really got at the act of what it means to be inhaling and exhaling every single day. At the other end of that question, I teach acting is my job. And I will say that like one of my favorite moments I have, which is also a place that I get to have a lot of theatrical experiences. I feel very lucky in my day-to-day is watching somebody for the first time crack into something that feels wholly and uniquely theirs as an actor, watching them figure out how to express their own idiosyncratic individual, weird version of themselves through a piece of art, watching that happen and see people understand that. Who might not have even understood that was their job in the first place is a really cool thing. I feel very lucky that I get to do every week. Oh, my gosh. Those are wonderful as well. Wow. Both of you. Thank you so much for these amazing memories. Those were fantastic. Of course. As we wrap things up, I would love to know, do either of you have any other projects or productions coming on the pipeline? We might be able to plug for you. Yeah. So at the Fringe, we're actually going as a collective of shows that have helped to organize, which we're calling Brooklyn Bottling Company. And that is six shows that are all going to be forming at the Fringe. Another one I directed is called Bread Epstein alone on stage, which is by my friend and frequent collaborator, Brett Epstein. It's his solo show about his life as an actor. And human and about relationships. And it's great. It's very funny. Brett is a mad genius. All of those shows as well as also at the Fringe, Jamie Dembo's Beverly Live is going to be there, which is so great. She's an amazing and provider, comedian, writer from LA. Her character, Beverly Ginsburg is everyone's favorite Jewish Yanta. She's incredible. If you're at the fridge, you have to go see her. After that, we come back. We're probably going to try to do the show again. I'm directing another show in the fall called horror play. It's going to be at a tank called Fantastic Magoria. And some other things I'm helping to, I'm probably writing my own play. I'll revise that. I'm also writing my own play, which I'm going to finish this fall after we get all those other things up and probably try to do some time in 2025. It's sort of being so mysterious about it, but it's sort of about a historical event that we'll be having in your anniversary that no one cares about in 2025. And so, but I do. And I want to do this. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Wow. You got a lot going for you. Serena, anything for you? I know I'm going to be working on some films, which is exciting. I've had a film that I've been trying to make with a friend for so long that just has been pushed off and off and off, given the recent project I'm working on now. And yeah, I mean, I just don't think the fringe is going to be the last place we do the show. I think I really would love to take it to some other places. I'd love to keep working on it. I'd love to like see if we're going to adapt it into something. Yeah. I think I'm just excited to see what happens there and what we're inspired to continue to work on. And we also just want to leave behind and move forward a bit. Yeah. That is so awesome. So a lot of things happening with the two of you, not only at the fringe, but beyond. So that is a wonderful lead in to my final question, which is if our listeners would like more information about your show or about either of you, maybe they'd like to reach out to you. How can they do so? Yeah. That's going to be through Instagram. We've got a show Instagram called Serena Frida. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to be here. I'll speak questions. The link tree's got a link to everything we are doing. Interviews tickets. All that. Good stuff. Yeah. And probably these Instagram is also probably easiest for me and that can be at Tom Costello directing. Wonderful. Well, Serena, Tom, thank you both so much for taking the time to stop by the chat for sharing this incredible piece. I'm so excited. I'm so jealous of everyone who gets to take it in next month over at the fringe festival. And I really appreciate your insight as well. This has been such a delightful conversation. So thank you both so much for your time. Yeah. There's still chance to come to the fringe. If you're welcome to come on out. We'll see you there. Yeah. Can we just see you there? Great. My guests today have been the amazing playwright and performer, Serena Frida and the incredible co-creator and director, Tom Costello, who joined us to talk about their upcoming production of No, No, No, Please, No, God, No. Never mind. I'm fine. It's part of the Edinburgh Fringe Festival and it's playing August 2nd through the 24th being dark on August 11th at the space UK. You can get your tickets and more information by visiting ed fringe.com. And we also have some contact information for our guests, which will be posted in our episode description as well as on our social media posts. And it's a great way to get ahold of these two great artists to find out all the information about the show at the fringe festival and beyond the fringe festival is not the end of the show. It will continue. I guarantee it. But right now for anyone who's heading to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, for anyone who's been on the fence about going, get out there, get your tickets for No, No, No, Please, No, God, No. Never mind. I'm fine. Playing August 2nd through the 24th. So until next time, I'm Andrew Cortez reminding you to turn off your cell phones, unwrap your candies. And keep talking about the theatre. In a stage whisper. Thank you. [music] If you like what you hear, please leave a five-star review, like and subscribe. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at StageWhisperPod. And feel free to reach out to us with your comments and personal stories at StageWhisperPod@gmail.com. And be sure to check out our website for all things StageWhisper and theatre. 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