Stage Whisper
Whisper in the Wings Episode 570
(upbeat music) - Welcome back and everyone to a fabulous new Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisper. We are bringing you more coverage of the upcoming Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And of course, the stop that we have here in New York is the East to Edinburgh Festival that's happening at 59 E, 59 theaters. On today's show, we are joined by the co-playwright and director Nadia Atkinson and the actors Alice Zilenko and Jasper Pershing. They're here to talk to us about their new show Cringe or hashtag no beta, we die like men. Again, it's part of the East to Edinburgh Festival playing July 20th, 26th and 27th at 59 E, 59 theaters. And then it crosses the pond to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival where it will be playing from August 12th through the 20th. You can get your tickets and more information for its New York run by visiting 59e59.org. We are so thrilled to continue to bring you coverage of this year's festival over in Edinburgh. And we're excited to welcome back this co-playwright and director and learn more about their new piece. So with that, let's go ahead and welcome on our guests. Nadia, Alice, Jasper, welcome. Welcome to Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisper. - Hi, happy to be here. Yay. - Absolutely, absolutely. - I'm so glad you're here. - All of you are here. I'm so excited to dive into this piece. So far, the shows we've gotten to learn about for this year's Edinburgh Fringe Festival have been fantastic. It is making me want to more and more hop on a plane and just go over there. Who needs a place to sleep? You just go see shows the whole time. That's what I heard at least. But let's go ahead and dive into your piece, cringe or hashtag no beta, we die like men. Nadia, you're the co-playwright and director. Can you tell us a little bit about this piece? - Yes, absolutely. So cringe has been in development for about two years, I'd say. And it's about the genesis of fan fiction as we know it. So it's about two different generations of queer folk and how they use science fiction, fan fiction to build fantasies and places for their imaginings. So this is actually inspired by the first fan fiction that was written in the 1960s by women writers who wrote often about the Kirk/spock pairing. And so this show is about these women and their stories and how that is basically given rise to what we now know as fan fiction today and how that's impacted at least my generation who were the Tumblr and A03 and fanfiction.net kids and how that's impacted our identity building today. - That's awesome. So what inspired you to have in this piece? - Yeah, I mean, I was always a kid who was reading Harry Potter fanfiction on fanfiction.net. And I think it's gotten more and more into the zeitgeist recently, fan fiction as actual medium that people are seeing as more and more vital to creating community. And it's the only free community created art, really that exists in a lot of ways, at least within the kind of literary world. It is a space for people to come together, share ideas about their favorite characters, their favorite literature, and quite literally expand on the worlds that authors have given us. So me and my dear friend Max John Grinn had this idea a few years ago where we wanted to both put sci-fi camp on stage because we're huge Star Trek fans, but also actually give celebrate fan fiction as a really worthy genre and a really important source of communal collaboration, which isn't really in conversations around it. - That is really, really cool. I love that. I mean, come on, how many of us to dive into the Harry Potter fan fiction? That's all I'm gonna say. Well, let's bring in our wonderful actors now and ask them, I mean, Alice, I'm gonna start with you first. How did you come upon this piece? - Yeah, me and Nadia met at the Eugene O'Neal Theater Center two, three years ago, and we both share mutual friends through that and the National Theater Institute there. So Nadia is such a leader in terms of making work and including her friends in her work, which is really awesome because that's how you make theater. That's how you make theater happen. So she mentioned she needed some help, some extra hands for the fan fiction, feminism and forbidden love. I think that's what it was called. There's a big festival she produced. So centered around fan fiction involved a reading of this show and it's like early stages. There was this podcast based on Jane Austen's novels, talking about erotica and desire from a feminist standpoint. And then, yeah, there was just a lot of amalgamation of similar work around this. So around then I was in the original reading that we did, I didn't know if there was a reading before then. And then Nadia kept working on it and developing it with Max and some other people. And now we're here. That's the story. - That's incredible. Jasper, how about you? How did you come upon this piece? - What do you know also from Nadia, also from the National Theater Institute where I didn't know Alice, but not in the last. It just shows you how small circles are, especially in this city. And really, I mean, like the thing that I wanna highlight most that attracted me to it was Nadia because as Alice was saying she's so prolific in creating work and having followed through. And that's what's really important to me is somebody who births an idea and will bring it to the end. So when she contacted me to be a part of this piece, I mean, it was a no brainer. Now, of course, a part of that no brainer was going from Los Angeles to New York. But I'm very happy to be here. So like, you know, it's everything to me. This is the work we do. - That is fantastic. I love how small the world is connecting all of you. This is wonderful. So Jasper, sticking with you first on this next question, I'd love to know what has it been like developing the piece? - Yeah. Well, you know, so far, we're still in the rehearsal process. You know, the character I play, Mr. Professor, he's always on stage, essentially. But he may not always be speaking. So a big piece of this has been learning who he is through movement, understanding his comedy and in relation to the rest of the play. So the rehearsal process has been enlightening. It's been super fun. 'Cause of course, I think you don't matter what the stories that was telling should be fun. And it has been, and you know, like I said, because everyone knows everyone in this cast, even though I don't know everyone, like there's connection. So it just means that I feel incredibly just welcomed and warm and like I do know these people, like I've known them for as long as Nadia. So it's been nothing but an incredible feeling. - That is truly fantastic. Alex, I want to ask you that same question. What's it been like getting it up on its feet? - Yeah, it's really fun seeing it from the first reading. The initial like idea of this earnestness, this like cheesy corny authenticity that we all kind of like collectively grew up with in like the poster session, 2013, Tumblr, Flower Crown, Aylenskirt. All of that is like part of the development process, I feel. So it's like, how can we lean into the comedy of the piece, the theatricality of the piece? 'Cause we're creating, you know, science fiction on stage. And then also Nadia did a really great job of researching the period, the time period and the like 1960s era, the context of that. So like taking what is accurate from that and also taking the larger than the theatricality and combining those things. I feel like is what this process is about. And yeah, it's very fun. It's a fun community, lots of giggling and landing into our cringe. And our, we all told our middle school cringe stories. So that was really, that I think that really brought us together from the beginning. 'Cause we all have it, you know, we all have that moment where you're just like completely, pridefully, earnestly, like doing something that is embarrassing to some people. But to you at that moment, it was an incredible decision. - So embarrassing, oh my God. - No, that is wonderful. I love hearing all of that. Let me bounce up to you, Nadia, 'cause I wanna ask you as the director of the piece, is there a message or a thought you are hoping that audiences take away from cringe? - Yeah, I mean, I think this piece is about at its core. It's about queer ancestry. And what does it mean for especially, fan fiction isn't really recognized by academic circles. And it's just about all of these independent cultural pieces and the people making them who aren't really remembered or lauded or were published by anything that created the kind of cultural shift into queerness being accepted today. And it's a celebration of this heightened love for something that brings people together. And this, I think that the reason it's called cringe is that cringe comes from this really intense love and desire for something. And so often that's viewed as something that should be stashed away or we should be embarrassed by or we should put away. But in fact, that kind of earnest desire to create with other people and love something so deeply that you will set aside time in your day to meet with others and to talk about it and to create and to imagine is one of the most important things we can do as human beings. So it's operating on a number of levels. I think, of course, it is a comedy and hopefully will make people want to crawl out of their skin a little bit in various pieces. It's been really fun to work on as both a writer and director because it's allowed me, I love to write in impossible stage directions as a writer and getting to direct my own work is, okay, well, I have this very specific, very cinematic image I want for this section, like people flying down from the grid in astronauts suits. How do we actually do this with a shoestring budget for a fringe festival venue? So a lot of it is just getting to play and celebrating play in the room. - That is wonderful. Jasper, I wanna ask you that same question. What is the message of thought you hope audiences take away from this? - Wow. I mean, it's so funny 'cause I sort of knew that most likely I'd be asked this question and I was still racing around between like what, what I wanted to say particularly, but I think as Nadia was experiencing, it's like, well, you know what? I'm so new to fan fiction. I didn't really know about it. It's not something that was a part of my life or in now it. So I think like I'm hoping that there's some people there who sort of came like me who were like, what is this world? And then can come away with such an exciting new peace and venture of life. And I also think, you know, it's gay. So that's always fun as well. And I just hope people laugh. It's just really funny. And I just hope people feel comfortable. I do hope people feel seen because it's not something that it was very prevalent in my life. I could imagine maybe for some people who are writers of fan fiction or readers of fan fiction can feel like it's taboo or just weird. But in fact, it's very community driven, passionate, obviously as Nadia said, it's also a part of, oh my God, queer history. So I just, I really hope people feel seen. Yeah. You know, and it makes me think, Angie, it's like ultimately in theater, I just want people to have conversation. So wherever that leads, whatever, when they leave that theater, what they think, as long as they were able to share that with the people, then I've done my job and I'm happy. Yeah. Yes, that is wonderful. Alice, let me ask you my final question for this first part. And that is, who are you hoping you have access to cringe, both here in New York and when you take it over to Scotland? I think it's a show that is very right for our generation specifically. There's not a lot of theater right now that speaks to a very feminist, queer perspective. I think our generation is the most diverse generation yet and will continue to be. So I think a lot of the theater now, especially the commercial theater, while maybe the actors are beginning to become more diverse and we're starting to tell slightly more diverse stories, it still seems like the POV is majority the white male canon. So I think this is a really great show for the main characters and the main POV being from the female gaze, being from a queer gaze and that not being about a struggle or like a cultural trauma, but fully just about joy and laughter and embracing cringe, embracing embarrassment. So I really hope people are age, see it and feel like they've been transported back to their bedroom, watching YouTube and being on Tumblr and fully earnestly loving something. I think Taylor Swift tried to say it on her NYU graduation. We didn't say embrace cringe and I think she was really speaking as a millennial and as a millennial myself. I think we can all use a bit of more earnestness. We're very ironic nowadays. We're very, we can be very negative people right now and it makes sense 'cause it's a dumpster buyer everywhere. However, I think the show is to remind us about the lack of dumpster fire present in all of our imaginations and our minds and community building, which is also why I love theater is the community building aspect. So that's a long, rambly response, but basically that's what I hope. - Please listen carefully. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Well, for the second part of our interview, we love giving our listeners a chance to get to our guests a little bit better. Pick your brains, if you will. And of course, not you. We have had you on our show before, which was so wonderful. So I'm actually gonna start Alice and Jasper with you and our regular first question, which is what or who inspires you? What play you rights, composers, or shows have inspired you in the past or just some of your favorites? And Jasper, can I jump to you first? - Oh, big, big question. But yes, I would say, well, okay, honestly, like when I went to the National Theater Institute, but that changed my anatomy as a creator. It made me feel like I can call myself an artist in an actor and that I have talent, you know? Like I wasn't so sure before. So going there being forced in my head that this is a viable path for me to take as though, like you said, Andrew, often unemployed, but it is nonetheless something that I'm like, what, this is it, this is my life. But I would say that play plays a lot since this is a play. There's a play called Fairview by Jackie Sible-Scooray. And I read that, I wanna say 2020. Well, maybe no, like 2022 because it's new works. But anyways, that play blew my mind. I read it while I was in the midst of writing my like senior piece in college. I went to Hampshire and college in Western mass. So it informed my own play and form and how to break form and that anything's possible. So I would say the combination of NTI and that play did stuff for me that I'll have for the rest of my life, not just my artistic venture. Yeah, yeah, I would say that. But then also like it's so interesting because when I talk about like what's inspired me, it's often not necessarily directly tied to this or that form of art. Like I grew up sort of really all about cognition of like animals. So like it's funny because like I think I bring that work into how I move my body. And I know that's something in theory alone. I'm like, okay, we're animal or whatever. But I will say still do it. It just works for me. So yeah, many different avenues. Many. Yeah, but those are those are what come to mind right now. Thanks. - I mean, I love that play too. I'm pretty sure it's in our library. Cause the minute you said it and the player, I was like, wait a minute. I'm pretty sure I've read that. - Yeah, that's the third act. I mean, I mean the first, I said, and I'm gonna suck it for a kitchen sink drama. So then the fact that that was flipped so many times on its head. - Yes. - Incredible. - Yes, yes. That is a wonderful list of inspirations. Thank you for that. Alice, how about you? What are who inspires you? - I was a big Annalie Ashford fan for a lot of my life. I still am. Yeah, she's an artist who really inspires me cause as a comic actress who also does, has a really diverse array of work. I just love her career and everything she does. And I'm also from Colorado. But then Sarah Roles, Eurydice is probably like my lone star. I love that play. I love that piece. I love her writing. It literally takes my breath away when I read it. That sounds so corny, but we're here talking about cringe. But I, yeah, that piece of writing is so beautiful. My Love Bad Jews by Joshua Harmon, when I read that one, I was like 14 during up Jewish. And she was like, "Oh my God, that's dry land." Oh, I'm a big Shakespeare Shakespeare nerd. I studied Shakespeare my funnel year at NYU. So any Shakespeare play, "Winter's Tale," I did for like a year. So I love that play. I could quote half of that play. It's so beautiful. Yeah. And I think that fellow is probably my favorite Shakespeare play. I think that he has, he really, the human experience. I think he really, he got something there. So those are, those are most of my inspirations. But then also comedy improv. I think the improv scene in New York is like some of the best stuff you could ever find. Some of the plays that I created in long-form improv. It's like incredible. Yeah. - That is also a wonderful list as well. Thank you for that. Nadia, I wanna bring you back in the conversation. And as I mentioned, you've been with us before. So this time around, I wanna know, how is it that you came into the performing arts? - Oh, that's such a good question. I mean, I have a whole, so many of my personal essays started with the whole spiel about when I was five of, I directed, I forced my friends to be in little scenes that I then directed and cast myself as a star and from like Pirates of the Caribbean and I had to be Jack Sparrow. So I think that it's kind of been something I've been doing ever since I could remember in some way. So many, I come from my Eastern European immigrant household and performing arts are so ingrained into the cultural consciousness. You go camping, you bring a guitar, you sing around the campfire, you go to someone's house and their kids perform for you. It's just an ongoing constant language. And it's just been the thing that I've been doing the longest, I suppose, I am also a visual artist. So directing for me was the perfect combination of visual art writing. I'm interested in psychology, literature and every single artistic and humanities-based interests that I had in one role, which is why I'm so drawn to working with actors on these worlds because every single script that you encounter is like a new world that you are creating and crafting and mining together. And that is such a gift and it is never boring. Every single time you come upon a new script, it is such a gift to be able to unpack that with an entirely new community of people and actually figure out how to create a language of trust and communal collaboration and creativity in the space. And that is a challenge that I really adore. So that's the long and short of it. I did theater in high school. I did theater in college and I've been directing since senior year of high school, I suppose. - It's fantastic. Look how far you've come from Pirates of the Caribbean to Harry Potter and now here with this great fan fiction show. That is wonderful. Well, now we've arrived at my favorite question to ask guests and that of course is what is your favorite theater memory or not in your case what's another of your favorites? - I think I can start with a recent one actually. I was just up in Canada for a directors lab called Directors Lab North. It is a sister lab of the Lincoln Center Lab that used to exist and has now been dissolved. And it's a week long, 10 hour a day intensive where it's 25, 35 directors from around the world who just get to sit and talk about making art. And it is such a joy to get to be with other directors in a space because it's such a lonely, solitary profession getting to actually understand how other people create and craft a room and create and craft a world and a production and what are people's approaches to working through difficult moments. What are people's ins into a play? How do people start thinking about it and putting it on its feet was such a gift that I've never experienced before. So that's been my most recent just really revelatory experience of, oh, it's so interesting to see that I'm both not alone in this and so much of my process is mirrored and so many other people and also just lean with so much knowledge and wisdom from people at completely different points in their careers, different parts of the world and figure out what from that I can pull into my own practice. - That is a wonderful memory. How awesome of an experience. Thank you so much for that. - I guess I'll chime in. Lincoln Center reminded me when I was 14 I got to perform in the course of the concert of parade at Lincoln Center that Jason Robert Brown conducted which was like my biggest fan girl moment and I fell in love with the musical. For Ben Platt did it, okay? And at the end when they're singing the reprise of the old Red Hills of Home, the orchestra cuts out and it's just, it's just acapella and it was like this 200 person chorus in David Geffen Hall, which is now called, no, I think it's called David Geffen. And we're all singing and it was like the amount of sound coming like an echoing back at me. And then it was just the drums and the final drumbeat and the sound of the applause of that like feeder, like I'll never forget. It was like a standing ovation and it wasn't really for me because I was in the chorus. It was for like, you know, the Broadway star doing amazing work there. But it was like just the amount of sound that that amount of people and I was like, life here is like, I was literally walked out speech and I was like, oh my God. Yeah, so that was a magical memory and I'm really glad I got to do that. - Oh my gosh, that is an amazing memory. Thank you so much for sharing that. Jasper, bring us home. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was really trying to think because we saw like the local or like local, but like this, the playhouse in LA that I would go to a lot of feeders is the Geffen. And I mean, the feeder they're always close to me was like, I just saw Fat Ham and I was hilarious, obviously such a comedic take on Hamlet. But honestly, like the play that really educated me like on theater was like, I saw the inheritance by Matthew Lopez. And like, I had never seen something that was, you know, over a runtime of like two and a half hours and that one goes way beyond that. And it's like, it was truly a day and night of theater. And that experience alone was so enveloped. Like I was so enveloped by it because obviously you'd go there around lunchtime, you'd go have dinner and then you'd go back and you watch more of this play. So it's just like, it encapsulated every part of me in the stage and it's super interesting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. - That's the fabulous, fabulous memory and a great, great theater for you to shout out. Thank you so much for that. Thank you all so much for those. Well, as we wrap things up, I would love to know, do any of you have any other projects or productions coming on the pipeline, we might be able to plan for you? - Yeah, I'm also directing a production of The Misen Thrope by Olivia Hunt at Hear Art Center. That's coming up July 31st through August 3rd. So I'm doing a little bit of back-to-back rehearsal but that's a really, really wonderful dark comedy that we'll be premiering soon as well. - Yeah. I am in a short film coming out called The Curtain to Horror Film. It's fantastic, it was directed and written by Jamie Edmondson and I'm so excited to be able to post more like, actually about that on my socials because it's an incredible, weird, horror piece, yeah. - I just finished up doing a play in West Virginia but I would recommend looking at their production of Steel and Agnilia's West Virginia Public Theater. They do a lot of great stuff for actors also looking for a great place to start working. And then I'm part of the sketch comedy group, Enemies to Lovers, we're on social media, we perform a Brooklyn comedy collective, we just had to show it young apples. So look out for more comedy moments, yeah. Okay. - I love that. So you all have some wonderful stuff that we need to stay tuned for. And that makes for a perfect lead into my final question, which is, if our listeners would like more information about Cringe or about any of you, perhaps they'd like to reach out to you, how can they do so? - Yeah, so Cringe is produced by Fishmarket Theater Co, which is a theater company of co-founded. So you can find any of those updates at fishmarket.theatre.co on Instagram. You can also, we have a website, you can sign up for our sub stack, which is also our newsletter. We're constantly doing things, programming our next season. So that's a great place. And then my personal website is Nadia Atkinson.com. And my handle, I believe is just audio Atkinson, 'cause I'm not that excited. - Yeah, the best way to see my stuff. And obviously also for being the promo for this play, Cringe that I'm in, is my Instagram, which is just Jasper, Peter, Persian. And now we're at Jasper, Peter, Persian. And that's where I'll have all stuff about the curtain and some other film stuff that I have, as well as some plays every now and then, which I love. Yeah. - I'm Alice.zell on Instagram, 'cause Zalenka's too hard. And my website is, I think it's a wig side still, but you could just Google my name. But I do update my website. So you can look there. I'm gonna update it within this week. So it'll be even more gorgeous and beautiful. It'll include a lot of good images from the show I just did, so that you can produce, okay, bye. - Even more impetus to go check it out, to see Alice's amazing graphic design skills. - Oh yeah. - I know I'm going as soon as this is over. - Oh yeah. It also is a drawing of me by my friend, Harris. And you can be the judge if it looks like me or not. - I love it. - Well, wonderful. Well, Nadia, Alice, Jasper, thank you all so much for taking the time to speak with me and for sharing your amazing new work ahead of its premiere, both here in New York and over at the Enbro Fringe Festival. So thank you all so much for your time. - Thank you for having me. - Thank you for having me. - My guests today have been the amazing Co-Playwright and director, Nadia Atkinson, and the amazing actors, Alice Zalenko and Jasper Pershing. They joined us to talk about their upcoming production of "Cringe" or #No Beta We Die Like Men, which is part of the East to Edinburgh Festival, as well as the Edinburgh Festival itself. The show is playing here in New York at the East to Edinburgh Festival, July 20th, 26th and 27th at 59 Eve, 59 theaters. And then August 12th through the 20th at the Enbro Fringe Festival. You can get your tickets for the New York premiere by visiting 59e59.org, and we also have some great contact information for all of our guests, which we'll be posting on our episode description, as well as on our social media posts. But right now, get your tickets, go to 59e59.org or find out how you can get your tickets for the show in Scotland. You're not gonna wanna miss this. This is a fabulous piece of theater. We're so excited to get to see it ourselves. The show again is cringe or #No Beta We Die Like Men. So until next time, I'm Andrew Cortez, reminding you to turn off your cell phones and wrap your candies. - I keep talking about theater. - In a stage whisper. - Thank you. 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