Stage Whisper
Whisper in the Wings Episode 565
(upbeat music) Welcome back in everyone to a fabulous new Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisper. We are continuing coverage of the shows that will be performing at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival this year. But before some of these make it there, we of course have them here in New York at a wonderful event at 5090, 59 theaters called East of Edinburgh. And joining us today, we have the Playwright Sidney Green and the producer, Reina Carrillo Naro. They're here to talk to us about their piece, The Gospel of Joan Crawford. And it is a part of the East to Edinburgh Festival. And performances of this piece are happening July 18th through the 21st at 59E, 59 theaters. You can get your tickets and more information by visiting 59e59.org. We're very excited, not only about this festival, not only about the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, but especially about this piece that we get to share with you today. The title alone has got to be hooking you right now. So let's go ahead and bring on the experts on the piece. Sidney, Reina, welcome in to Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisperer. - Thank you so much, Andrew. We're so excited to be here and to be talking about with you about our absurd, queer shows. - I'm so excited to learn more. So let's kick things off with you, Sidney. The Playwright, why don't you tell us a little bit about what The Gospel of Joan Crawford is about? - Yeah, so The Gospel of Joan is the story of five would-be somebody's arriving in hell. They're faced with a poker match led by the one and only Joan Crawford and they're forced to buy for a spot in heaven while contending with their sins, sexualities and their own dispensability in the wild world that they have left behind. Because to all of these women, winning becomes about more than the fame that they failed to receive in life. It becomes about eternity. And what's more horrifying than that? - That is fantastic. Wow, what a story. What a story there. I can't wait to dive more into this. So Sidney, where did you come up with the idea for this piece? - So this is a pandemic piece. This was written at my grandparent's house in the suburbs of New York after we all got thrown out of NYU dorms. And I had actually started writing a different piece that I was talking to with the director about the other day that I had found in my pages. And that was called Six in the Sewer. And it was again a poker match happening in some vaguely purgatory state. But that was about actual historical figures, one of which was George Eliot. And I wrote about 20, 30 pages of it. It didn't really pan out. I didn't really have the fire for it. So I went back to it a few months later, vaguely early 2021. And started creating my own historical women, people that I wanted that I thought could be part of this historical record that could have been sidelined. And looking into what their stories might have looked like. So, while the characters such as Eloise, who's our 1920s film director, were Manka, who's a early 20th century German opera singer, might not literally have existed. The horrors and the struggles that they talk about are real things for real historical women. - Wow. Wow, no, that's brilliant. Now, Rayna, let me bring you into this conversation. You're the producer of this work. How did you come upon this piece? - Yes. Well, this started, I believe Sidney started working on this earlier and had presented it as a developmental work for broke people at NYU, which is this call about NYU. And the director of broke people, Sophie Lopez and I connected 'cause we were doing this producing event at NYU. We produced like 60 artworks and performing arts works. And then over the summer, Sophie asked if I was interested in producing the gospel of Joan Crawford. And I was like, okay, send it over to me. I'll read it, I'll see what it is about. And I'll see if I'm interested. So I read it and I was like, wow, this is really interesting. It was really funny and engaging. And yeah, I was in. I was like, okay, yeah, sounds great, let's do it. And then the summer of 2023, so last year, we did it at The Tank. So that was like my first encounter with it in real life. - It was fantastic. I think we both just have that same reaction as Sydney was telling us the story of what it's about. Both of us are like, okay, wow, I want more. This is beautiful, this is great. So right now, as we barrel into the East to Edinburgh Festival here in New York and then of course onward to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, what has it been like developing the piece? - Mm-hmm, yeah, so I, the Fringe Society, the Fringe Festival has this thing called the Fringe Society and they provide a lot of resources for people who are gonna be attending Fringe and they had an event at 59E, E59E and I went and that's where they talked about this opportunity to present, to do the work before going to Edinburgh. And I was like, this would be really good for us. It would be really good practice because at Fringe, it seems like things run really fast. Like you go, you set up, you're in and out and they actually asked because it was a longer work so we had to cut it down. So that was another thing that we worked on 'cause it was, we had seen this play and we had gone attached to like all these characters and all of a sudden it was, oh well, we have to take out this scene or we have to take out this part and some of the actors were involved in the process and they were like, no, but that part, but that line. So it was a really interesting process of the cutting. But yeah, that's kind of how I found about that opportunity and we were just interested in going to Fringe. It's a large cast, but for some reason, we were like, yeah, let's do it. And the Sophie, Sydney and I got together and we were, I don't know, been really eager to see where we can take it. We keep joking, we're like, oh, it's gonna be off Broadway next. So we'll see what happens. But we have some great 20, 28, many times. - Yeah, people are very attached to it. Everybody in it is like, oh, this is gonna be great. So it's, yeah, the collaboration is really fun and it's been really nice. - That's so wonderful to hear. Well, Sydney, let me ask you, is there a message or thought you're hoping that audiences take away from your piece? - So I think to me, it is partially what I was saying before that the Gospel of Joan is about rewriting women into history, but it's also about thinking and unpacking our own ideas about legacy and what we leave behind and what we're really so desperate for when we're looking to legacy. That one of these things that we desire are actually mean for us, especially if there is something beyond what does legacy mean once you're dead? What does legacy mean if there isn't like an end, there isn't that history to grab onto, where do we go? What do we have in this place that gets rid of everything we had before? And I think that it's a lot of that. It's also a lot about like, I like to say this is a show that questions that do we stop growing just because we're dead and are we done changing as human beings when we get to that so-called end point? And I think I don't know about you. You may know my feeling with the show has always been, well, no, of course not. All of these characters get to change and grow and become different people. And that's why they're together in this space is that it's the opportunity to let go of what they had been so desperate for in life and what didn't serve them and to become a truer version of themselves. And what is the truer version of all of us look like? - Well, they've been so lovely. That is a great thought, I love it. Right now, I want to send the final question for this first part over to you. And that is, who do you hope have access to the gospel of Joan Crawford? - Yeah, Melissa, I think mainly young, emerging artists, like this is, I think the story and the narrative, like Sydney just mentioned, it's about like, kind of like who you're becoming and like coming to terms with that and kind of like understanding that in the end it's not that bad. We'll all, everything will get sorted out in the end. So I think that especially for emerging artists, this is very, this is like a very fresh piece. Obviously we're open to everyone, but I think it's mainly targeted towards emerging artists. - Fantastic, anything you'd like to add to that, Sydney? - No, I think Rana said it quite beautifully. So essentially, this is for people who feel like us, who feel overwhelmed with the concept of legacy and forever. And also for any queer people who want to come support queer art, even though it's not going to be Pride Month this time, but yeah, just people who want to feel grounded in the overwhelming state of it all. (upbeat music) - Well, on the second part of our interview, we love giving our listeners a chance to get to know our guests a little bit better. Pull the curtain back, if you will. And I want to start by asking the two of you, what or who inspires you? What playwrights, composers or shows have inspired you in the past or are just some of your favorites? And Rana, can I start with you first on that please? - Yeah, one of my favorite shows of all time is The O, it's the Cirque du Soleil O in Las Vegas. And it's this very like interdisciplinary show. And it starts with these like huge red curtains that are covering, well, you don't know it's water, but they're covering like these massive, this like massive pool of water. And the music starts and the curtain gets like pulled into the water and disappears. And it's just like such a beautiful moment. I was sitting at the very top watching it. And it was just like a really powerful opening. And it made me think a lot about what we can put on stage and the things that you can do. Of course, they have a huge budget. So I was like, that's another element of like what becomes limiting. But yeah, they did like synchronize swimming and they were singing and there was live music. And even like from the start before the show starts, they're doing like some stuff on stage to get the audience engaged. So I love that show. I, yeah, I would watch it anytime. And I just found it really inspiring. And I love how all of these different things come together. And it's very interdisciplinary. So I think that's one of my favorites for sure. - That is fabulous. That is a great show. Wow. Stephanie, what about you? What or who inspires you? - I'm a major proponent of Paula Vogel. I love Paula Vogel as a playwright, as a, she's a great playwright and teacher as well. If you look up like a lot of her lessons on playwriting or pretty readily available online, but I saw in decent when it was on Broadway, how many? That's over six years ago now, I think. And I think in decent is one of the greatest works ever made. I think it's absolutely gorgeous. I love the use of technology in it. I love the re-positioning, that's the wrong word, but. That's the wrong word, but. The re-contextualizing of the main scene, I love the way that it brought in God of vengeance into these real life stories around it and how this story grew over time and how it impacted those around it. I think that she showed that utterly beautifully and that it took like the pain and the pressure and the beauty of that original love story and made it into so many different love stories all in this beautiful web around it. I think Paula Vogel has a real way of like touching the heart and touching like our humanity. I think that's true of mother playing how I learned to drive as well, that when she gets autobiographical, it's really truly real in a way that I think very few playwrights are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I love Charles Bush. I think his absurdity and his type of comedy is definitely something that's there in Joan. I don't know if you would have the ability to see Ibsen's ghost. I thought it was brilliant and absurd and hilarious and I think Charles Bush is really good. Oh, so at creating a time period and changing everything you know about it. And I think that it's a very beautiful way as well of recontextualizing history. I think in two very different ways that both kind of come together in Joan in a strange way. But yeah, there are two inspirations from very different ends of the spectrum. - I love those, those are fabulous inspirations. And I wanna ask that you, you know, what is your favorite part about working in the theater? And Sydney, why don't I start first with you on that? - Yeah, I honestly just love being in the room with other people, whether it's our amazing actors who are people like Reina. That I think, especially as a playwright, as someone who traditionally a lot of my own practice happens alone in rooms like this, that really getting in the space with someone and hearing those words come alive and being able to have open dialogues and we adjust and we position and be able to see that maybe something that worked for me in my bedroom at two a.m. two weeks ago, might not actually work in this room. And even just being the space that we could have this open, inclusive, that times, yeah, critiquing dialogue about what is actually the best thing for this work because I know (laughs) America traditionally has this playwright complex in which the word is God. And I don't believe that. I think that this doesn't exist without all of us. And that's why I love that we began as a developmental project because it really was a collaboration between me and Sophie and our original cast. And yeah, Jonah as it stands now does not exist without everyone. So I think to me that really the play becomes itself when it no longer becomes mine. - I love that thought, that is wonderful. Someone put that up on a poster. That is a brilliant idea. Reyna, what about you? We mentioned that you came originally from the dance world. Now you are here in the theater world. What is your thing about working in the theater? - It's been, yeah, it's been really interesting coming from dance to theater and seeing, they're like some moments where the actors are like rehearsing the script. They're like practicing and we're going through it. And I would make comments. Like I would be like, oh, what about this, this, this? And it's really interesting to see how like culturally in the theater world, you're not supposed to do that. So it was a big, it was a big culture shock for me. They're like some things that are really obvious to the people in that room that to me, I like had no idea. So I've definitely been learning a lot about what is appropriate and what's not appropriate. And it's been a really cool process to be in those rooms with really brilliant people and actors. And yeah, I think the most enjoyable part is the people that I get to do this with. I think everybody's really passionate. Everybody's really talented. Everybody's open to learn. And yeah, they always treat you with care. So it's been, it's been really nice. And I've had a really positive experience. I think the collaboration is what I like the most. There are like some things here and there where there are disagreements. But I think that there has always been this like open communication policy where we're able to discuss where things are going wrong and then move forward, which is also really nice. And it has still a really strong connection between the cast and the team. - I love that. I also love the fact that you feel so welcomed and loved and accepted into the theater. I mean, there's no place else like it. The performing arts, there's nothing like it. It's so amazing. So that is a wonderful answer. And now we've arrived at my favorite question to ask guests, which of course is what is your favorite theater memory? - We're going back to the rain scene. However, we were going to the rain scene in the, it was 2016. Might be, no, I think it's 2016. The Yiddish production by New Yiddish Rep that they did, I think, off off Broadway. And that was my first introduction to God's Revengeance. This was a few months before, maybe a year before and decent had come out. I had no idea what this play was. I had Googled it like two days before. I had never read "Sola Mash" before. And there was translations, obviously, I do not know Yiddish. My family does not speak Yiddish because they speak a dead form of German that doesn't exist anymore. But no, seeing the original rain scene and seeing it in Yiddish and just sitting in that room and being like, oh my God, this is, this is how it was. In 1904 or whatever, when he wrote this, this is how it felt like this is the moment. Right now, a hundred years later, happening again. And it feels like this. And I was just this young, queer, like 15, 16-year-old who had like this last band on stage and things like that, but it was so long and so innocent and so hopeful. And it really did just feel like this moment ripped out of time. And I think I felt all these like past versions and all this history wrapped up in that moment. And it really did, it felt like I was someone in that audience a hundred years ago who had never been able to consider myself in that place. And I saw so many people in history in that moment. And I think, yeah, and that's also part of the reason that I love and decent so much because I feel like it captured the beauty of being able to see that like again and again. But yeah, there was just, it was so encapsulating of time in a way that I think theater has the real possibility to do, that it has the possibility to pick you up and put you into that moment. And it was the most riveting thing I've ever seen. And it was just a version of the rain scene and a footy sea theater in New York. But it was everything. - That is such a wonderful memory. Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. Reina, tell us your favorite theater memory. - Yeah, so my favorite theater memory, I'm gonna bring it back to my time as a performer, as a dancer. And it was this moment, I was given the opportunity to do the sugar plum fairy roll. In my college program during my senior year. So this was like a huge deal for me because everybody's like aspiring to do the lead role in the productions. So it was a huge honor. And the opening night, I was with my dance partner and we were doing like the opening sequence of this dance that everybody wants to do. And I had been looking up like for years, I had been wanting to do this thing. And it was just, yeah, at the end of my dance I couldn't believe it. And I was just, there was this like different feeling in my body. I just felt like completely like a different creature almost. 'Cause I couldn't believe that I had been able to do that. And you're kind of like carrying a whole group of people with you too throughout this like ballet story. So it was a really, it was a huge honor for me to do that. And it's definitely one of my favorite memories. And just thinking about everything that also goes behind the scenes and everybody that participates to put this on from like staging and lighting. So it was just in the orchestra. So it was a great honor to be, to have been chosen to do that. Definitely one of my favorite memories as a dancer. - That is so, so wonderful. I love that. Those were wonderful. Thank you both so much for sharing those with us. As we wrap things up, I would love to know, do either of you have any other projects or productions coming on the pipeline that we might be able to plug for you? - I believe Sophie and I are gonna be working on Annie made me balls. It's written by Reese Viella. And that's gonna be in October. I think we're presenting it at the tank. So it's in the works, but I believe that's our next project. And if Sydney has anything in the meantime, we'll obviously always prioritize Sydney. We love Sydney's work. - I love you. I'm working on getting the Leslie and Adam's family play into a workable state. We're getting there. No, but everyone should also go on the TF, to get to go to websites. And you can go all the way down. Sophie's amazing work there. But I don't have anything I can talk about right now, but feel free to find me on social media. I post all my playwriting things there. And also keep looking at the events that the new school did. I collaboratively wrote a site-specific post-apocalyptic show in the West by the basement as part of my first year project last year. So you never know what you're gonna find. - Those are all so wonderful. I'm so happy to hear about all of that. Very much looking forward to what's next for the two of you. So that actually leads to my final question, which is if our listeners would like more information about the Gospel of Joan Crawford, or about either of you, perhaps I'd like to reach out to you, how can they do so? - Where have you go on Pietrito, which it stands for a little fear in Spanish? 'Cause, yes, 'cause I'm Mexican. So that's why we made it in Spanish. - What is that? - Dot org. - It's called, it's like T-E-A-T-R-I-T-O. It stands for a little theater in Spanish. - Dot org. - Yes, dot org. And that's our website with our projects. And yeah, we're really passionate and we like doing stuff and keeping busy. So we're doing stuff and we're trying to make theater. So if you can support it on the way and come watch, we would love it. - Yeah, and they are amazing collaborators and we're so excited to be doing this project together. You can also, that website and the T-E-A-T-R-I-T-O Instagram and TikTok find our GoFundMe link, if anyone wants to help us try to get to fringe. And if you would like to connect with me personally, I'm Sydney 558 on Instagram, or you could reach me at SydneyHQueen1@gmail.com. That is my professional email. - Well, Sydney, Rana, thank you both so, so much for stopping by today and sharing this amazing work on your way over to Scotland for the Enro Fringe Festival. Thank you both, this has been a blast. So thank you both so much for your time today. - Thank you, Andrew. It really was a pleasure to be here. - Yes, thank you so much for having us. - My guests today have been the amazing playwright, Sydney Green and the incredible producer, Rana Carrillo Narrow. They join us today to talk about their work, the Gospel of Joan Crawford, which is part of the East to Edinburgh Festival, and their show is playing July 18th through the 21st at 59 and 59 theaters. You can get your tickets and more information by visiting 59e59.org. And we also have some contact information for our guests, which we'll be posting in our episode description, as well as on our social media posts. But make sure you do follow them, make sure you stay on top of things, that way you can stay informed about when and where and where they're performing, as well as their upcoming projects. You won't want to miss this. But for right now, hey, if you're in New York, you've got the perfect opportunity to see it before the rest of the world does at 59e59 theaters. Again, the show is the Gospel of Joan Crawford playing July 18th through the 21st. So until next time, I'm Andrew Cortez, reminding you to turn off your cell phones, unwrap your candies, and keep talking about the theater. In a stage whisper. Thank you. (upbeat music) If you like what you hear, please leave a five star review, like and subscribe. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at stagewhisperpod. And feel free to reach out to us with your comments and personal stories at stagewhisperpod@gmail.com. And be sure to check out our website for all things stage whisper and theater. You'll be able to find merchandise, tours, tickets and more. Simply visit stagewhisperpod.com. Our theme song is Maniac by Jazzar. Other music on this episode provided by Jazzar and Billy Murray. You can also become a patron of our show by logging on to patreon.com/stagewhisperpod. There you will find all the information about our backstage pass as well as our tip jar. Thank you so much for your generosity. We could not do the show without you. ♪ A long way from there I'll swear ♪ ♪ I don't care anywhere near your town ♪ ♪ Makes me there ♪