Stage Whisper
Whisper in the Wings Episode 548
(upbeat music) - Well, good back in everyone to a fantastic new whisper in the wings from stage whisper. We have a truly fantastic show to be sharing with you today. As you all know, I'm all about the outer edges of the theater where you get into the world of puppetry and mine and all that kind of stuff. And this show definitely falls into that category. It is that awesome. And joining us to talk about this show, we have the co-creators and puppeteers, Andy Manjuck and Dorothy James. They're here to talk to us about official puppet businesses presentation of a dream music co-presentation of Bill's 44. It's playing July 10th through the 28th at here and you can get your tickets and more information by visiting here.org. Now, I've already gotten to hear a little bit about this show before we started. I'm telling you, this is such a cool piece. You are not going to want to miss it. So let's go ahead and bring on the experts who can tell us more about this. Andy, Dorothy, welcome in to whisper in the wings and stage whisper. - Hi, thanks for bringing us in. - Yeah, we're happy to be here. - I'm so excited you're here. I'm excited about the show, Bill's 44th. This sounds so cool. So Andy, why don't we start with you and have you tell us a little bit about what the show is about? - Sure. Bill's 44th, where to begin. He, it's about our titular character named Bill, who's throwing himself a birthday party. That unfortunately is poorly attended. Nobody seems to be showing up for Bill's birthday. And it's all about him trying to rise to the occasion for himself at his own birthday. He keeps failing to try to make it happen, but he's unwaveringly optimistic. He's sort of a bit of a Mr. Bean-esque character who as the story unfolds that format of like a Mr. Bean sketch starts exploding and being deconstructed. So it starts simple, but gets kind of weird and interesting. But yeah, it's about Bill. It's about Bill and Bill's all of us. He's just, you know, he's a little, he's a little rough around the edges. He's got a big old mustache and no eyes, but he doesn't need him 'cause you can see where he's seeing. And yeah, he's got a tattered sweater and no legs 'cause he is in fact a puppet. - I love it. Oh, I bought a few, Bill. I was like a low attended party. I'll come to the party. Oh, you've already won my heart over. So Dorothy, tell me, how was the two of you came up with the idea for the show? - Well, the idea originally came from, I guess was it back in 2016, a puppet slam network called Puppet Homecomings reached out to Andy and asked if he would be interested in developing a short puppet slam piece. And I don't know if that's something that you're familiar with, but it's kind of like an open mic, but for puppetry. And it's usually pieces like five minutes and under, a lot of the times there will be a theme to the evening. So the pieces will all like revolve around a theme. And for that particular slam, the theme was they are coming. And so Andy approached me and was like, hey, would you like to throw something together for this? Like I had this idea of it's a birthday party and no one shows up, but they will because they are coming. And so that was the seed that was planted there for the original beginnings of the show. And Andy had also seen a show, I guess several years earlier. - Yeah, like 2013, '25. - Yeah, that had used this puppet or a style of puppetry that was kind of like a floating torso operated by two people and was very intrigued by that style. And so we decided that this would be a great excuse to like try out creating something like that. And that's how that's how Bill was born. - That's incredible, wow. So Andy, I wanna come back to you and I'm curious to know, first of all, is this the world premiere of the piece at here? - No, so we did four performances back in 2021 at Dixon Place at like 30% capacity. You know, it was like sort of like a live stream loophole where like COVID numbers were going down at the time. So people could like start to come back to the theater before Amacron came in and like wiped everybody out again. So we were able to do four performances and, you know, we, from there, we took the show on the road. We've performed it in Chicago, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, as part of Oklahoma City Rep's season. We performed a sold out run at the London MIME, which is like an international festival in London for like physical theater. And we did the Edinburgh Fringe last year with Underbelly and the show was like a roaring success. So it's like, it's been going, but this feels like we're finally actually getting to do the show in New York, which has been like, we both live here and we've lived here for a long time. And it's sort of like a homecoming. It's sort of like finally we're doing the show where we intended to do it years ago, you know? And so we've been waiting actually, much like Bill, we've been waiting for this opportunity to actually bring the show back and have a proper run where all of our friends and family and new friends potentially can see and see the show. Yeah, see and celebrate. - That is wonderful. What a journey the show has already gone on. This is a really, I love that you're viewing this upcoming performance as a homecoming. We also have been long waiting for this as well. - Dorothy, I wanna know, what has it been like developing this current iteration that's about to go up? - Yeah, well, we create through a devised process, which means that everything that ultimately ends up in the show is created through improv. And so we have come in with this idea of birthday party that no one shows up. And then we kind of work together. Andy and myself developed the show just the two of us for a very long time and just kind of coming up with ideas, putting it on its feet, I think with puppetry and with device theater, there's a lot of, you kind of need to like build things or mock things up 'cause everything is object related. And so you kind of need to experiment with versions of things to see if it's even, does it contribute to the story? Does it push the story in the direction you want it to go or in maybe a direction you didn't know you want it to go, but it's weird enough that you'll like give it a try. And that was kind of our journey creating Bill's 44th. And I think the difference, the show premiered in New York in 2021, like Andy said, but that was specifically designed not only for an in-person audience but for a live stream broadcast as well. And I think so many of us watched theater that was being streamed or whatever. And it's so, so hard to make theater look good on camera unless you're like super specific about the way you want to film it. And so we definitely built that version knowing that we wanted some things to be just for the people at home, that we wanted some things to be just for the people live. And so coming out of that world kind of since 2021, each time that we've done the show, we've like made some tweaks and some changes to accommodate a fully live theatrical audience. - Right, eight restructures. - Yeah, we've restructured some things we also changed gently when in time the show takes place. - Yeah. - Bill once started out with a cell phone and now none of that we've got a landline, which is a classic. But yeah, so we've just kind of, everything has been an experiment. So we try things that we see if it works. We see if it satisfies us. And we also continue developing a show. We realized we needed another set of hands, a third puppeteer. So we brought in our friend and collaborator, John Riddleberger, who helped us finish the show for the initial premiere in 2021 and has continued to be our collaborator in these future iterations. So it's really, the show is created by all the people involved and it would be a different show if we had a different team around us. - And just one additional thing to tag on is that we, since the show has no dialogue and is really just motion based and because we iterate a lot, things change often. We'll like build sequences, but like we even discovered the last time we did it that we had done the show like 24 times in Edinburgh, we like figured out a whole new moments. And so the show is like sort of in this lovely space of like, it is set. It's always gonna be about 55 minutes. But like sometimes the journey between the points is like, it's like still ripe for discovery, which is really fun. So there's like a lot of micro changing that happens moment to moment. - That's so wonderful. I kind of wanna put a pin on that thought just for a moment 'cause I wanna ask, is there a message or a thought you hope audiences take away from the show? And Andy, I'd love to start that with you, please. - Yeah, sure. I'll just say that we would love for people to come away from this show feeling like a multitude of ways. Like we would be happy if it's any of them or all of them. One of them being like they know somebody that is like our character, that they all of a sudden feel like they need to call, like that they need to reach out to somebody who they care about, who maybe they haven't spoken to in a while, or we want people to come away and feel like they just saw someone accept themselves. And maybe by doing so, like there's some osmosis transference there where they feel like maybe they can accept themselves. 'Cause the show deals with loneliness and self-acceptance. And so it's like, and we as the audience get to celebrate someone who has like is finding themselves and comfort in themselves. So being a part of that, like experience of like being in an audience that is celebrating someone. So like there is joy, but there is sadness in the piece. And so walking away from it, like, I don't know, just sort of feeling a camaraderie with all the people that just went through it together. Because you're like watching someone change. And you get to help that character make that change in a way. So I don't know. It's like a good kind of complicit, I suppose. You're like, so I don't know. We've seen so many people go through so many different emotions walking out of the show. And sometimes it's just like joyous party vibes. And like, I'm all for that. If someone comes out of the show and they're just like, whoo, that was great. It's amazing. But we've also like, you know, been surrounded by people like weeping inconsolably. And so it's sort of like, you know, all of the, if they feel anything after the show, it's great. Because the show wants, you know, is giving you the space to feel a lot. Because puppets, puppets effectively are like projection devices. We can't help but put ourselves onto the puppet. Because the puppet doesn't feel anything. So we're assuming what the puppet feels. So like, by doing that, you're sort of gonna have the journey that you maybe didn't even know you wanted to have. Emotionally, you know? Like it allows that space for you as the audience to like go somewhere. Because the puppet isn't telling you how to feel. You're feeling in the black. - Yeah. - I love that. That's so wonderful. Dorothy, anything you'd like to add? - Yeah, I mean, I think Andy really covered the basis of like, you know, emotions and any experiences, any reactions that people have to it, I think are super wonderful for us. But on top of that, you know, I think that puppetry is kind of an under-recognized art form in the United States. Or I think that there's like very specific things that come to mind when you think of like puppets, like what is a puppet? And I think something that we really love about the show that we created is that the argument can be made that every single object, whether it's a piece of sonography or something that looks more puppety, but you could argue that it is a puppet because it's like moved to tell a story physically. Yeah, in a way that is a bit heightened and a bit different. And so I think that if people can come out of this and be like, oh, my definition of puppetry has expanded from what I thought it was initially, I think that would be a really exciting thing as well. Yeah. - And also sort of inevitable. If you have a narrow thought of what a puppet is. - Yeah, yeah. - Like it's gonna, it's gonna bend it a bit. - I hope so. (laughs) - No, I really like that idea. I really, really like that. I like both of those thoughts, the messages, and I wanna loop them in along with where we left off back when we were talking about the development of the piece. And I wanna ask, who is it that you hope have access to Bill's 44? And Dorothy, can I start first with you on that? - Yeah, sure. I mean, I, my hope, and I think this is like across the board for theater is I hope that anyone and everyone can be able to access it. I think that something, you know, that we did intentionally and not intentionally was telling a story with no text. And so I think like it's good for people who maybe like don't have English as a first language. It's great for people who maybe have a more difficult time hearing. And I think that, you know, we, yeah, I think that the way that we have chosen to tell the story just kind of opens up avenues for people to, for more people to be able to get something out of what we're putting up. - Yeah, that is wonderful. And Andy, anything you'd like to add? - Yeah, I think everything Dorothy saying is right on. I mean, like, it's a wordless show. So there's no language barrier, you know? Everyone has a birthday and everyone ages. And it's a story about sort of the universality of time and like, and like how we age over time and like what it means to be alone and what that feels like. And so everyone has experienced that to some extent. So the show wants to be accessible to anyone and everyone. And also like here does a pretty good job from a ticket like stance of trying to be accessible, right? So they have like different tiers of, it's not quite pay what you can because it's not, but there are like accessible tickets. So there's like accessible cost tickets for every performance. And then it, you know, bounces up like tier wise, like, you know, general admission and then pay it forward or the true cost or whatever. But I like, and it's not perfect, right? Like systems are never perfect. But like, at least there is sort of like this holistic idea of access around a show that's like, you know, a wordless story for everyone who might have a birthday and also maybe is cost effective to a point when theater is either, you know, $300 for a ticket to a show that you might have a bad seat in and you don't even know what you're getting or might even be completely free. But like again, like New York has a ton of theater and it might not be for you, right? Like, like the show might not be like geared towards your community or whatever. So I don't know. I think puppetry lives in a space that is like trying to reach into other like micro communities and niches always. And therefore like has to have some sort of self awareness about like what space we occupy in theater. And so like we're really interested in like being open towards anyone who has any interest in meeting us. So we're like, you know, that's definitely a consideration in not only making the piece, but picking the venue. (upbeat music) - Second part of our interview, we love giving our listeners a chance to get to know our guests a little bit better, pick your brains if you will. And I want to start by asking the two of you, what or who inspires you? What playwrights, composers or shows have inspired you in the past or just some of your favorites. And Dorothy, can I have you kick us off on that? Is that all right? - Oh no, what a big question. - Oh no, you got it. - Oh my goodness. - You got this. - Oh man, suddenly I'm like, I don't know a single, I've never seen a movie. I've never read a book, I don't know a single song. (laughing) I mean, I think that honestly the first thing coming to mind for me is like Tim Burton Nightmare Before Christmas and like early stop motion things. And speaking to what we were just talking about, like maybe some stuff that's like considered a little scary, but like was geared towards children. But I think yeah, for me there's so much excitement that comes from like practical effects and physical storytelling, like thinking about like Bill Irwin as well, like clowns and anything that's like very like tangible that can create magic live I think is a very exciting thing for me. Yeah. - Yeah. I just like interesting, weird looking things. Like for a long time, my favorite film growing up was Terry Gilliam's Brazil. Not so much for the movie, I loved the movie, but for the scenic design, which was like all of these like air ducts to nowhere. And just like these beautiful, like these halls that are definitely like supposed to be beautiful, but just like ruined by all of this like stuff coming and jutting out of the ceiling and like people's faces being pulled really tight, you know, to like make them beautiful. So that was like, I think like that and Princess Mononoke from Miyazaki were like the first two moments that animated film, those were like the first two moments. I was like, oh, this is like, I wanna do more of this kind of stuff. I wanna make art like, but since then honestly, like the most inspiring stuff to me now is like the stuff that's made by the people I know, like the peers that we have, you know? It's like, we're like surrounded by like really lovely puppetry artists, visual artists, musicians that we kind of surround ourselves with. Like our music was composed by a dear friend and, you know, like, and we've worked with like a ton of artists that are like amazing and they're visually stunning and so eclectic and I recently, just recently, I'm really inspired by, I'm trying to get back into poetry. And so I just started reading this book that's been out for a few years now. Ocean view-ons on earth were briefly gorgeous and it's a book that is just, I don't know, I'm just so drawn to like, normally when I read, I just sort of read and read and read and then I'm like done. I'm like, okay, cool, that was fun. Whatever that book was, or that was sad. But this book is so like the poetry so dense that I can only read like a couple of sentences and then I have to sit, I have to like go somewhere else. I don't know, this like is book as meditation almost and I'm sort of really inspired by that because it's forcing me to approach like a medium in a way that I'm not used to. And so that's sort of like a reminder to how we can approach, how we deal with any piece of art, right? It's like, oh, I like go to a museum and I look at all the paintings, whereas like you might actually go to a museum and like draw like the painting that you see. It's like, I don't know, it's like inspiring me to think about how I think about my relationship to different mediums of art, which was a cool realization to have over the past few days. Anyway, less like cool than like just being like Tim Burton 'cause like Tim Burton is so aesthetically present in the show, I think. 'Cause I think Bill is a little Tim Burton-y actually. - Interesting. - Well, with like the no eyes and sort of like. - Oh, it's just 'cause I don't know how to make eyes. (laughing) I've never made a puppet and then put eyes on it and been like, wow, that looks better. So I just take them out. - But also, you know, to the puppets credit, you know where Bill is looking all the time even though he doesn't have eyes. Like he has such like in puppetry, we call it focus, but he has such clear focus that you just understand what he sees. Anyway, yeah. - I love those inspirations. Those are wonderful though. So that is all a great lead into my favorite question to ask guests. And that of course is what is your favorite theater memory? - I mean, a big one that sticks out for me is, I don't know how many years ago now about seeing "Forza Bruta" at the Union Square Theater. Ooh, is it so called that? Probably not. Whatever theater that was. - The one on like 14. - Yeah, but they did the magic show at for years afterwards. - Yeah, but seeing "Forza Bruta" there, I think it was a moment where I didn't realize that theater could be exploded in such a way. But having, being able to have audiences move around, being able to have like these visual bits of storytelling happen all around you. And the biggest moment that I'm thinking of is when like this massive water tank just like came down and closer and closer. And like you didn't quite know it was gonna stop and you have like these beautiful performers like slip and sliding through it. But that it came so close that you could touch it. And like I'm a pretty short person. But like, I just like couldn't believe that like this was a moment. And I think like, yeah, that like inspiring moments of like surprise or just being like, okay, well like what are like the rules? And like, how do we like break them in a way that's exciting and new and makes people go like, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know you could do that. And I think that, yeah, that's something that really sticks out for me. - I love that memory. Yes, that show was amazing. - It was so good. - I loved it. - I loved it. - Yeah, almost like that's my moment. - It's awesome. - What is your favorite memory? - Oh gosh, so many. I mean, one of my more, I like to be inspired by things that I don't expect. What was that show that we saw at BAM? - Dimash, I was thinking about that too. - Dimash was really cool. That wasn't what I was thinking about. - Oh, what were you thinking about? - But Dimash is amazing. I mean, at BAM, that show was crazy and the stuff that they did with wind and everything. But actually the thing I'm thinking about is that maybe it wasn't at BAM, it was close to BAM. It was called like in decent or in, - Oh, uh-huh, uh-huh. - It was a play about to like a couple going to visit their family in India. And it was like this whole Indian family living together like the father, the mother, and like maybe like an uncle kind of relative. And the thing that was the most, it's definitely indecent something, right? - I know, I know, I'm trying to look it up. - Anyway, the thing that was the most impactful for me in the show, there were a lot of things. I mean, the show was like so well written. I think it was nominated for something, definitely for writing. The writing was incredible and the acting was so good. But in the show, there was so much confidence in the work that there's a whole scene where the two of them, the couple are in a bed and there's like a mosquito net and they're trying to deal with the mosquito net and one of them has gone to sleep and the other one is just like on his phone and he's just sort of like, it's like a 20 minute scene. There's barely any words, it's mostly in the dark. - Public obscenities. - Public obscenities. I was thinking like indecent, but obscenities. Public obscenities, holy cow. The amount of confidence in a scene to put us almost completely in the dark for 15 to 20 minutes with just the light from this guy's phone as he's trying to like see if he can hook up with dudes like in his hometown, but like just living in that space with him and like living with like the him being next to his partner who's like totally okay with it, but also like trying to sleep. And like this, it felt, it didn't feel tense, but like I just lived for it, it was crazy. And I just love, I don't know, like a lot of shows like feel like they need and a lot of art just feels like it needs to like and conversations. They feel like they need to fill the space, you know? Like they need to, they need to fill it with words or fill it, like otherwise it'll die. But this just was so confident, it just couldn't die. It just was there and it was presented in such a confident and casual way. And I was, I was so struck. I was, it was so lovely. I don't know that it's like my favorite memory ever, but it's definitely up there. And so for that fact alone, it's like important to me. It's just like, it's a lesson. It's like a great lesson in like, how to create impactful theater. - I love that, that is also a wonderful memory. Thank you both for those. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Well, as we wrap things up, I would love to know, do either of you have any other projects or productions coming on the pipeline that we might be able to plug for you? - I mean, you're on the, I mean, they don't need any plugging, but you're on the AVID Brothers. - Oh yeah, I'm puppeteering with the AVID Brothers. They're a band, they're on tour and we're doing some little puppet things with them. Brown, I think like August, September. - All around the country. - Yeah, so that's, but they're fine. They're doing fine. - They're fine, they're fine. But we're taking the show to Edinburgh again. We're taking Bill around, he's doing a little tour. And then we're developing a new piece, but it's still early days. We just are starting to do residencies. - Oh, but you could look for another cool puppet show in October that we'll both be in called, it's either gonna be called helicopter. - Or remember when they told you this was a helicopter. - It'll also be presented, I believe, by here, co-presented by here, but it will be in an office space. It is like a very site-specific style show, but it is a puppet show that it explores like the idea of empty real estate, especially when it comes to corporate offices that are just like shit elves, that have just been erected and just like lit out of empty. And it plays with that, but also like ideas around video games and things like, yeah, it's cool, it'll be cool. And there'll be good puppeteers in it for sure. - That's right. - I love that, I love that. So some funding that we need to keep tabs on about you. And that leads to my final question, which is if our listeners would like more information about Bill's 44th or about either of you, maybe they'd like to reach out to you, how can they do so? - Well, the most basic thing is we have a website, which is bills44th.com, but you can also find us at bills44th on Instagram. - TikTok? - Yeah, bills.44th on TikTok. That's what that is. - Oh, really? - Yeah. - @AndyManageUp on Instagram. - And @InstaDeege on Instagram. - Which is D-W-E-J. - Yes, but I'm private, so you'll have to request me. - But also like if you just go to bills44th and you go to the contact sheet, that goes to us. - Oh yeah. - So, you know. And also on bills44th, we like list all of the tickets that are currently upcoming. So it'll say like, that we're doing the New York State Puppet Festival next week, and then New York City and then Enbrough and then North Carolina. Doing it up. - Well, Andy, Dorothy, thank you so much for your time today. This has been such a blast. And thank you for sharing the show with us. I'm so excited about it. I cannot wait to see it. So thank you both very much for your time. - Yeah, thank you so much for having us. This was so lovely. - Yes, thank you. - Oh, thank you both so much. My guests today have been the incredible co-creators and puppeteers, Andy Manjunk and Dorothy James. They join us to talk about official puppet businesses, presentation of a dream music co-presentation of Bills44th. It's playing July 10th through the 28th at here. And you can get your tickets and more information by visiting here.org. We also have some contact information for our guests, which we'll be posting in our episode description as well as in our social media posts. But right now, head to here.org, get your tickets. Get 'em while you can, you know? You're not gonna wanna miss this amazing show. We will be there, so join us for a stage whisper night out of the theater. Again, the show is Bills44th playing July 10th through the 28th. So until next time, I'm Andrew Cortez, reminding you to turn off your cell phones, unwrap your candies, and keep talking about the theater. In a stage whisper. Thank you. (upbeat music) If you like what you hear, please leave a five star review, like and subscribe. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at stagewhisperpod. And feel free to reach out to us with your comments and personal stories at stagewhisperpod@gmail.com. And be sure to check out our website for all things stage whisper and theater. You'll be able to find merchandise, tours, tickets, and more. Simply visit stagewhisperpod.com. Our theme song is Maniac by Jazzar. Other music on this episode provided by Jazzar and Billy Murray. You can also become a patron of our show by logging on to patreon.com/stagewhisperpod. There you will find all the information about our backstage pass as well as our tip jar. Thank you so much for your generosity. We could not do this show without you. ♪ A long way from there I swear I don't care ♪ ♪ Anywhere will your town make me down ♪ [BLANK_AUDIO]