Be God's Family
S3 E27. Elijah’s Ministry of Confrontation
This is the BeGod's Light Podcast with Ben Greenbaum and Mark Elsasser. Here in 2024, we're spending the year in the Old Testament, and we've been looking at how God has been at work from the very beginning. Today I have a very special guest. I'm in Zambia at the Capacumba Training Center, and I'm with the Director of the Training Center. His name is Pastor Robert Kilimbo, and it is an honor and a privilege to be with you today. So I bring you greetings, and I think I'd like to begin by you just simply saying who you are and a little bit about you as a person and your family. I'm Pastor Robert Kilimbo. I'm a United Methodist pastor serving here in Zambia. Originally, I'm not a Zambian, but I'm with Congolese. I just came in Zambia for a certain program which was initiated by the general board of global ministries. That's how I came from Congo to Zambia. And when the program was terminated, I was requested to remain and work here in Zambia with the church. Because the church in Zambia is young, they wanted an experienced pastor to be among the team of the leadership. That's our remain here. And for that, I was connected with Capacumba. I have a family. I have my wife, Teresa Kilimbo. And I have five children, three girls and two boys. And we are all here, except of two. One is at university in Cabo, and the other one is an America in Boston. He went to Purdue. And now he's working with Microsoft in Boston. Wow, that's a tremendous family. And I'm not surprised because having been around you for this week, you are a very bright man with tremendous leadership skills. Help our people understand what is Capacumba Training Center. There's a lot that is part of this organization. Help us to understand what it is. First of all, by the name of Capacumba itself, that concept is the way we put it. Meaningful, it doesn't mean anything. It's just a lake in Congo. And from that lake, John Enright, who's the founder and the family who were serving in Congo as missionaries. And with the long war in Congo, that's how they came here in Zambia and with their father together, they bought this place. And they brought the name of that lake, Capacumba here, to name this center as Capacumba Training Center. But to ourselves, Capacumba is like an idea or a vision which focuses on transformation. That's how we can define Capacumba, an idea or a vision focusing on transformation. That's really beautiful, so transformation is the key word. What are some of the areas of life where people are experiencing transformation at Capacumba? I know there's a variety of ministries that are here. You're the director of the Training Center. Explain the areas that you're the director of, that you oversee, and maybe some other areas where maybe you don't. I don't even fully know how that works. So what are some of the ministries or the areas that you have here at Capacumba? We are focusing on health care and education and leadership transformation and development. And in leadership that's where we are training pastors. And on the other part of education we have a school here for the primary school now up to secondary school. All these children around this place, many of them are like condemned because we don't have any school here. And then we started this school to enable these children to get education and for free. And also we have a program, the feeding program, those children, when they come they have the right to, we give them breakfast and lunch so that they gain more protein in them and they are able to study accordingly. Transforming the place, this place before Capacumba being established here, it was a very dangerous place. Very dangerous place, it was like a den of thieves. But with the coming of Capacumba, this place is transformed completely. Yeah, because you can see now people moving around even at night without being disturbed by anyone. We don't know how it's happened, we call it, that is a miracle of God, transforming this area. There was a time when you see the main road, that's where they were stealing vehicles. People coming with vehicles, they slow down before joining the main road. They get their vehicles and were killed, it was terrible. Anyone who tried to pass at night here can be hurt one or the other ways. But I can give you an example, one day a drunk man came with a bicycle. He fell to move around but he just slept somewhere here. And one of our guys in the morning, he found him sleeping with his bicycle to his side. That was a miracle, how can that happen? That's how we started seeing how God, through what we are doing unknowingly, transforming this area. And to make it very peaceful. We focus also on the widows around, that is the area where Mamma Torres, she's mostly focused. All the widows in this area to give them hope, she has a program which trained them and empower them, for them to overcome some of the challenges of their lives. In brief, this is what we are trying to do and we are doing so. I really love that, that's such a beautiful image of transformation that's taking place. And some of the mechanisms that you have are your school for the children and the clinic. But you also have pastor school and that's why I'm here for the pastor school to be teaching for that. And I must say, you've kept me busy with a lot of classes. I think next week it's averaging about six hours per day of teaching and I am really loving it. And that takes the transformation beyond this region into other parts of Africa. And my understanding is that there are pastors here this week from all over Zambia, also from Namibia, and from Tanzania. And then you also have a pastor school in the Congo. It seems like a large number of the pastors are United Methodists that I'm running into and talking to. Maybe not all, but a number of them are United Methodists. So how does that play out when you are bringing in pastors for training? How does the training work? And it's different than in the United States where we go away for seminary for three years and then go to a church, talk about how the pastors come back and forth and how their training works and where you're sending them all over this part of Africa and your vision for that. This school, first of all, we are grateful for coming and helping us this year. You know, some of my classes, you are the one who have helped me a lot with those classes. Because if my wife will seek, I'm not around here. I'm very grateful and thank you very much. So how are we doing this? These pastors here are serving already in their areas, in their villages. We don't agree to have a pastor to serve without any training. So now how can we help these pastors? Because in the areas where they are serving, you won't see many of us with these big papers going in the bush. Many of us we want to serve in town. And by serving in town, we neglect people who are in the very remote areas. We believe Jesus died for everyone and whatever we are doing everywhere can be also done in the rural areas. For those pastors, they are already committed their life to serve God. What they lack is the training. So the Kaffa Kumba pastor's school is a response to those kind of people who are saving God. We bring them here because they don't have anyone who can support their education. No one can pay for their transport, their education. Now Kaffa Kumba comes in to support them, to pay their transportation from the place where they're staying to Kaffa Kumba. We feed them here and we supply all what is required. And also we bring teachers like you people and other people. They come and teach them. And after teaching, it's just four weeks we're doing it at the beginning for two months, but we had a problem with the immigration and funds. Because we are bringing people from outside Zambia as well. When they come here for a long time, it becomes a problem. We have to go through many processes. That's how you see that all the teachers are loaded seriously to make sure that in the four weeks all what we have planned is done. And then they go back. It's not like the training ends there. They go in their churches. Now it's my duty now to go and visit them and to see how they are performing there. If they have some problems in their way of saving, that's where, for example, going one district, I bring all the pastors together. We discuss matters and issues they are facing in connection with the educations. So that's how we do. And after that period, again, they come and they do that for eight years. So that in eight years, we assume everything is done and they can be able to serve. Now with the leaders in Tanzania, when we meet, for example, we go to general conference, we go in the meeting, in the national meeting, we meet and share. When they have about this program, they say, "Oh, I think this program can be suitable for our church as well." For our conference, that's how, for example, the district superintendent of the Namibia mission this week, I met him in Mozambique. And when I was talking about Kafakumba to evangelism, a program from GBGEM, so I was sharing how we do, and people, they were very impressed. That's how they wanted to also come. I said, "Oh, they are also welcome." Again, we look for funds, we pay for their travel, and they are here as the same as those who are coming from Tanzania. So this is how we are doing it. That is amazing with you work in partnership. You mentioned GBGEM, that's the general board of global ministries, the United Methodist Church, and then you're also in partnership with local churches all around the world and with individuals. In all these multitude of ways, you're able to have the funding necessary. I've met pastors who took four-hour bus rides, nine-hour bus rides, two-day bus rides to get here, and they really want to be here for pastor school. And my observation, this is my second week, so last week I was here, my observation is they're eager to learn. They really want to understand and learn so that they can be the most effective pastors in their communities. And what you're providing is, I just think it's a remarkably beautiful thing. So I want to say thank you. I did not know that you traveled to see them in between the times. So I love that you're doing that and you're able to speak into their lives. I've watched you do that here a little bit. I actually want to look at a scripture and then maybe use that as a way to talk about it. We're going to take a look today at 1 Kings, chapter 21. And this is a story about Elijah, the prophet. But it's also about a king who was not a good man, his name's Ahab in the Bible, and a man named Naboth. Let me just read a little bit. Now there was a man named Naboth from Jezreel who owned a vineyard in Jezreel beside the palace of King Ahab of Samaria. One day Ahab said to Naboth, "Since your vineyard is so convenient to my palace, I would like to buy it to use it as a vegetable garden. I will give you a better vineyard in exchange, or if you prefer, I will pay you for it." But Naboth replied, "The Lord forbid that I should give you the inheritance that was passed down to my ancestors." So King Ahab went home angry and sullen because of Naboth's answer. The king went to bed with his face to the wall and he refused to eat. Now, this king had everything, Pastor Colombo, and he had everything he could possibly want, but he wanted one more thing. He wanted the neighbors vineyard. And I know that it's a universal problem, not just in the United States, not just here in Zambia, but it's a universal problem that people want what somebody else has. I'd like you to talk a little bit about that in terms of the challenges and temptations that the people here face. And it might make a connecting point with our listeners, most of whom are in the U.S. with this desire to have something that's not yours and be upset when you can't get what somebody else has, and it may feel unfair if that makes sense. Yeah, you are right. When I read this passage, there are things which came to my mind. One is, who is your neighbor? You may have a powerful neighbor who has a desire to possess everything. When he has that, he doesn't consider who you are, what you are going through, what is happening in your life, what matters is this desire. And that's where comes the correct issue, when we cheat even if we come up with pastors, contentment, how to fight that desire when I have someone who has I have everything as nothing or it can be vice versa. I don't have more than what you have, and my desire is to get what you have, and you know, it may end in stealing. But if I have power, I won't steal, I may kill you, I may take it by force. But for the powerless one, doesn't have power to kill you or to do something, but you find ways to steal. That's where now we come with a character change. When we come with the character change, we have to see to be contentment, what God has given me, what God has given me is enough. We always consider that it's not enough when I compare myself to someone else. When God gives something to me, he looks at Clemo, he doesn't look at that one, he looks at me, this is what you need, right now. And the rest is you under hit around you. So King I have, he has already power, he is king. He can just buy another land somewhere and to develop it. But this is that attitude which people have in power. We now started seeing these men in church trying to get everything. Everything, that's not fair, that's not fair. You see in church, I've said this once here, we have bishops. You have these who put it in the poor past. I've served in Zambia's assistant, the bishop, for seven years. When I used to go and visit churches, you reach a church where you see the level of living of that pastor. I can say this one, we don't need even to get his performance, to bring to get it. Because I used to say getting money from this pastor, that's getting eating or drinking his blood. The better we leave it to him, and we find ways to support him. But many leaders in our church are not thinking that way. And these are some of the areas we focus when we are teaching pastors. It's incredible what you just said, and because we have one sense of contentment in the US, and there's another sense of contentment in Zambia. But it's a universal problem when we are not content with what God has given us, and we want more, or we want what someone else has. And that can become, I think, a real problem for us. You know, in this story, King Ahab made an unholy alliance when he married Jezebel, and part of her name contains the word Baal. She was a worshiper of foreign gods, and she introduced the Jewish king to some very bad ways. So when the king was upset that he couldn't get the land that he wanted, she said she would arrange for it, and she did. She had the landowner killed, and then she told her husband, he's dead, now go get the land. And so the king then took the land, and that's where Elijah the prophet enters the story. And it's in verse 17 here in 1 Kings 21. The Lord said to Elijah, go down to meet King Ahab of Israel, who rules in Samaria. He will be at Nabeth's vineyard in Jezreel, claiming it for himself. Give him this message. This is what the Lord says, and whenever a prophet is declaring this is what the Lord says, Pastor Kilimo, I think that's something you should pay attention to. And here's the message, wasn't it enough that you killed Nabeth? Must you rob him too? Because you have done this, dogs will lick your blood at the very place where they licked the blood of Nabeth. Ahab exclaimed to Elijah, so my enemy, you have found me. And I find that interesting that he looks at the prophet of God as his enemy rather than himself, or his wife, or Satan, or anything else that's ruined his life. And Elijah answered, yes, I have come because you have sold yourself to what is evil in the Lord's sight. I know that as a leader here, there are a number of times when you have to speak truth into the lives of the pastors, and sometimes that truth is not what they want to hear, but in a prophetic way, you have to deliver the message. Talk about that a little bit, how that goes for you and how that goes for them, and what that exchange is like as you are speaking these prophetic words into the lives of the pastors who need guidance, and direction, and correction, and love, and support, and encouragement, and all of those things. All the time, the truth must remain the truth. We cannot agree with the message of God, but the message of God remained the truth. It doesn't require our approval. That message just requires us to accept it and to welcome it. So, in our context, I illustrate something which happened to me, trained pastor with a degree, I came here to Kafakumba. But then we had bananas here alone. I came, John said, okay, because the bishops said I asked to speak with Kafakumba and to help John in many areas. I came here. I was by then staying in Dohla traffic when I commit every day. I came in Thai, very well dressed, and then John looked at me. Is it that we are coming to work? I look at myself, what is this man saying? He said, I've come to work. You said I have to come today, I've got to work in here. He said, yes, but how can you dress like this? I couldn't understand what he was trying to say. He said, okay, you've come to work, that's fine. Take the wheelbar there, put the chicken manure, and then put the bananas. He said, what? I refused to work that day, and I went back home. Very annoyed, this is embarrassing me. My wife told me, I told her, I think we have to go back to Congo, then stay here. I don't know why bishop wanted me to stay here, we have to go back. We have a lot of things to do that side. I was very much angry, my wife calmed me down, and in the morning, she said, you're not going to work? I said, no, I told you you have to go to plan to be in touch with the bishop and find ways to go back. Then she said, I think it's better you think twice. That man for him to tell you, go and put chicken manure to the bananas. Do you think he's just a mad person? He can do that to you? Soon, me and my past I was supposed to try to tell me this and that, and so on, we worked. She said, no, I said, no, I won't go. That day, I didn't go, get following the day, then the third day, she convinced me, she forced me. You have to go. This time, don't dress the way you did. Just put work, I mean, casual girl and work. I came and I took the chicken manure, I went to the bananas. I started thinking, what I'm doing here, bit by bit, I started understanding what was happening, which was not possible at the beginning. When John realized that I've understood, it took me from the bananas. Now I went to the woodshop, I'm not a competitor, I'm my pastor. How can he bring me here? I went there, I started working. Then you're understanding from morning up to 12, you will rest a bit and then you continue up to 17 hours. It was difficult for me, but my wife at home want me to be here and I have a choice, then, forcing myself to spend any year, the third year, he sent me now to sell bananas in town and fish. We went with net and energy, it's on the market and when you know our traditional way of selling, you go to the market, you are short, but fish, fish, fish, can't customer. And some of the church members, this pastor, what has happened to you? Why are you doing this? I didn't have any answer, it's after John Coleman said, you've passed these tests. I've seen that now you are committed and you understand what you are doing. You can be in charge. What? In the process what I learned is how to amble myself up to the ground to do as Jesus to wash the feet of the disciples. You cannot save until you go down. You cannot manage until you go down. The message can be strong, the message can be very painful. But since it comes from God and we believe all what God wants is our goodness, it cannot want anything better to happen to us. We have to take it. A happy good night. Because it was fear with his power, his desire to do what himself wants. Didn't have any space for God in whatever he wanted. That's why he can see that now that a prophet has an enemy. We all sometimes go in the same. When the message of God comes to us and when it's contrary to our desire, it's difficult to accept this. But what I've learned is that we have to amble ourself and to accept and understand that what God wants is our best, not what we want by ourselves. I am sitting here spellbound with your story. It was training you to be the eventual director of Kafakumba training center by teaching you serpenthood. And it just reminded me of this passage out of Philippians chapter two, which says don't be selfish. Don't try to impress others. Be humble. You talked about that. Be humble. Thinking of others as better than yourselves. Don't look out only for your own interests. But take an interest in others too. You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. Instead, he gave up his divine privileges. He took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, he humbled himself in obedience to God. And died at criminals death on the cross. The way up is down. The way the leadership is serpenthood. What a beautiful story. I would like to ask if you would be willing to pray for our listeners. Most of them are from our church. We have a few people in other places that listen, even from around the world. But most of them are from Fisher's United Methodist Church, our congregation. And I would love it if you pastor would be willing to pray for those who are listening to this podcast today. Let us pray. Even further, God Almighty, you are great gods. Thank you because you love us. You love everyone who's listening to my voice. And you have a great plan for each one's life. It may be contrary to what they desire. But my prayer for each one of them is that, in your mightness, power, or lord, enable everyone to understand that your desire for each one of them is only what is the best. Therefore, enable your world to be accepted, to be welcomed by your children listening to my voice. Attended to their life in the very special ways. You know the desires of their hearts. You know what is happening right now in their life. But your word can give them peace and hope. Through your Holy Spirit, enable them all Lord to welcome your words. Your word will give them peace. Your word will give them hope and opportunity to experience your power and you move in their lives. Bless them, bless the official church and bless the pastor for the name of Jesus Christ. We pray. I mean, amen. Thank you so much for doing this today. It's been a great joy of my life. It really has. Next week, we will be taking a look at Elisha. He's the follower and the successor to Elijah. And Elisha takes up the mantle from his mentor, Elijah. So doing it next week. And for that one, we have another person, Nate Stewart, who is part of this Catholicumba ministry as well. So you want to listen to that folks, if you want to jump in deeper, you can go to our church's website, fishersumc.org or find our church app. And then just click on the be God's light link and that will take you to more episodes of this podcast and many other parts that help you walk through the Old Testament. Thank you so much for listening today and until next time, may God bless you. [Music]
Pastors Mark Ellcessor and Robert Kilembo share from Kafakumba Training Center in Zambia about Elijah confronting King Ahab for his actions born of greed.