On today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast, the focus is on deep-sea mining and the leadership of the International Seabed Authority (ISA). The episode discusses the recent developments and different countries' stances on deep-sea mining, with some advocating for a moratorium and others taking a precautionary pause.
Please tune in to learn more about the current state of deep-sea mining and the push for a leadership change to steer it in a direction that aligns with the desires of many.
Link to articles: 1) https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/jul/29/inside-the-battle-for-top-job-that-will-decide-the-future-of-deep-sea-mining
2) https://deep-sea-conservation.org/solutions/no-deep-sea-mining/
Follow a career in conservation:
https://www.conservation-careers.com/online-training/ Use the code SUFB to get 33% off courses and the careers program. Do you want to join my Ocean Community? Sign Up for Updates on the process:
www.speakupforblue.com/oceanapp Sign up for our Newsletter:
http://www.speakupforblue.com/newsletter Facebook Group:
https://bit.ly/3NmYvsI Connect with Speak Up For Blue: Website: https://bit.ly/3fOF3Wf Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rIaJSG TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@speakupforblue Twitter: https://bit.ly/3rHZxpc YouTube: www.speakupforblue.com/youtube
The leadership of the International Seabed Authority (ISA) is currently under scrutiny and potential change due to concerns about trust and transparency. The current leader, Lodge, has been accused of being too closely aligned with the mining industry, lacking transparency, and advocating for the acceleration of deep-sea mining activities. This has resulted in a lack of trust among member states and a division of views within the Council.
Leticia Carvalho, sponsored by the Brazilian government, is a candidate for leadership, emphasizing the need for meaningful transformation within the ISA. She stresses the importance of trust and strong leadership within the organization, especially given the ISA's dual mandate to authorize and regulate mining for the common heritage of all mankind while safeguarding marine environments from harmful impacts.
The potential change in leadership comes at a critical juncture for deep-sea mining and the future of the world's oceans. The decision on the new leader could have significant implications for the emerging industry and the approach taken towards deep-sea mining. Carvalho's background as an oceanographer and international diplomat, coupled with her focus on a precautionary approach and transparency, contrasts with the concerns raised about Lodge's leadership.
The controversy surrounding the leadership of the ISA reflects broader concerns about the trajectory of deep-sea mining and the necessity for responsible and sustainable practices. The choice of the new leader will play a pivotal role in shaping the future of deep-sea mining and its impact on marine ecosystems. Trust and transparency are essential components in ensuring that decisions made by the ISA align with the objective of safeguarding the ocean for future generations.
The debate surrounding deep-sea mining, as discussed in the podcast episode, underscores the critical need for a precautionary approach to protect the marine environment and deep-sea ecosystems. The ISA's role in authorizing and regulating mining activities while aiming to shield the marine environment from harmful impacts is crucial. However, concerns have been raised about the current leadership of the ISA, with allegations of a lack of transparency and potential bias towards the mining industry.
The episode highlights the contrasting views within the ISA, with some countries advocating for a moratorium or precautionary pause on deep-sea mining due to uncertainties and potential risks. The discovery of dark oxygen in the deep sea further emphasizes the importance of conducting thorough research and understanding the ecosystem before engaging in mining activities.
The push by certain countries and mining companies to expedite deep-sea mining without established rules and regulations raises significant concerns. The lack of transparency in decision-making processes and potential conflicts of interest further underscore the need for a precautionary approach.
Leticia Carvalho, a Brazilian oceanographer and diplomat, has emerged as a candidate for leadership within the ISA, advocating for meaningful transformation and addressing the lack of trust and leadership within the organization. Carvalho's emphasis on the importance of thorough rule development and the necessity of completing regulations before approving any mining applications aligns with the precautionary approach needed to protect deep-sea ecosystems.
In conclusion, the debate surrounding deep-sea mining highlights the importance of adopting a precautionary approach to ensure the long-term sustainability and protection of the marine environment and deep-sea ecosystems. It is crucial to prioritize transparency, scientific research, and the development of robust regulations before proceeding with any mining activities in the deep sea.
The decision on the leadership of the International Seabed Authority (ISA) holds immense implications for the future of deep-sea mining and the health of the world's oceans. As discussed in the podcast episode, the current leader, Lodge, has faced criticism for his alleged close relationship with the mining industry, lack of transparency, and push for the acceleration of deep-sea mining. On the other hand, Leticia Carvalho, sponsored by the Brazilian government, is running for leadership, emphasizing the need for trust and meaningful transformation within the ISA.
The ISA, governed by 168 member states plus the European Union, plays a crucial role in authorizing and regulating mining for the common heritage of all mankind while protecting marine environments from harmful impacts. The decision on the leadership will determine the direction in which deep-sea mining progresses. With increasing concerns and calls for a moratorium or precautionary pause on deep-sea mining from various countries, the choice of leadership will shape the regulatory framework and approach towards deep-sea mining.
The episode highlights the urgency of understanding the deep-sea environment better before proceeding with mining activities. Recent discoveries, such as the potential role of nodules in producing oxygen in the deep sea, underscore the importance of thorough research and a precautionary approach. The lack of transparency and concerns over conflicts of interest within the ISA further emphasize the need for a leader who prioritizes ocean health and sustainable practices over expedited mining operations.
Ultimately, the decision on the leadership of the ISA will impact not only the future of deep-sea mining but also the health and sustainability of the world's oceans. It is crucial to have a leader who prioritizes transparency, scientific research, and the protection of marine ecosystems to ensure responsible and sustainable deep-sea mining practices.
A big topic in the ocean today is deep sea mining. And at the head of it is the leadership of the International Seabed Authority, the ISA. And there's been somebody who's been in charge for quite some time, who's been quite controversial by in many circles. So is it time for a leadership change that will take deep sea mining into the direction where most people want it to go? And that is stay at a moratorium. We're gonna find out on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's start the show. (upbeat music) Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. This is a podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. And on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about deep sea mining. This is something that, it's a topic that we've been talking about for quite some time here on the podcast, it's in the news. And the reason why it's been in the news is there was a recent meeting, the summer meeting of the international seabed authority in Kingston, Jamaica occurred in July, and there were some developments, some good developments that we've seen, and probably some not so good developments that we've seen. The big development was that we saw more and more people or more and more countries add their voice to saying no to deep sea mining. So currently, there's just different categories for that. So it's currently the moratorium and the alliance is Palau, Fiji, Samoa, and the federal states of Micronesia. The precautionary approach of precautionary pause are countries including Chile, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Spain, Germany, Panama, Vanuatu, Dominican Republic, Sweden, Ireland, Brazil, Finland, Portugal, Monaco, Kingdom of Denmark, Greece, Malta, Honduras, Tuvalu, Guatemala, and Austria, and Austria. And then the moratorium is New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada, UK, Mexico, and Peru, and then a fall all out ban is France. So 32 countries say no in one way or another to deep sea mining. Now we have seen some countries increase their interest and increase their action towards deep sea mining. We've seen Norway increase theirs. Denmark, I believe, they started to explore. They wanted to do some more quote unquote research. And it's a really interesting thing that's happening because this often happens. We have the International Seabed Authority, which is there to have essentially two functions, right? It's to, you know, basically it has two mandates. So it's to authorize and control mining, as well as for the common heritage of all mankind and to protect the marine environment from harmful impacts. That's really interesting. Those are two almost people can argue opposing mandates that don't really fit. And it reminds me of here in Canada, where I live, out in BC, and even just federally, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, or Fisheries and Oceans Canada, and I think it's climate change at Coast Guard, I think so, I forget what the names are now. But Fisheries and Oceans DFO, essentially in Canada, the federal government has the mandate for aquaculture to promote aquaculture, but also to keep the marine environment healthy. Those are two mandates that some can argue don't really go hand in hand. Others can argue that it does. But where the controversy came in Canada was that when it was supposed to be testing for diseases within aquaculture facilities, it presented studies that said, no, we don't think that these studies are saying that there's a significant problem with parasites and diseases and viruses within the aquaculture fish population to the point where it's affecting the wild salmon populations. Okay, well, sure, their DFO does some great work. There's no doubt about it. I used to work for DFO. I know firsthand some of the studies that they've done across the country have been fantastic. But how can you present a study that's from the government, not necessarily in all the time that are in primary journals? And you put out a technical report saying something that your mandate kind of goes against. You're trying to protect the environment, but you're also trying to promote aquaculture. And this is controversial just as I'm saying this. I can hear the arguments happening. Once DFO, their scientists, they present the science and it's up to the policymakers to do the interpretation. And I get that, but it just in the eyes of the public, the eyes of conservationists, the eyes of people who are involved in aquaculture, they have very different approaches and outlooks on these two, what seems to be opposing mandates. And it's the same thing with the International Seabed Authority, the ISA. When you have a mandate to one, to authorize and control mining and for the common heritage of all mankind and to protect marine environment from harmful impacts. Now, looking at that first mandate, you're looking at, hey, look, our planet's in the crapper. We have greenhouse gases, we have climate change. We need to do something to change it. A lot of significant portion of greenhouse gases is produced not only by the fossil industry, but also by gas-powered vehicles, right? And so when you have gas-powered vehicles, you're always emitting some sort of greenhouse gas, whether it be methane, whether it be carbon dioxide, whether it be something else, that contributes to climate change. So the more cars, the more gas-powered vehicles we have on the road, the more we have climate change, right? As long as we keep selling gas-powered cars, we're not gonna clean up the planet from these CO2 and methane gases from leaking out into the environment and contributing more to climate change. But if we put in electric vehicles, there's no emissions in the actual vehicle itself. One can argue that there is in the making of the battery and so forth, but when you look at the overall, when you compare the gas-powered vehicle to the electric vehicle, you're looking at overall, there's no emissions when you actually use the vehicle of an electric vehicle. And so there's a benefit there. You're taking away the greenhouse gases that are contributing to climate change when you're driving and like the actual act of driving an electric vehicle, so it's better. Now here's the problem, to make the batteries that are now the batteries, you need specific metals, cobalt, nickel, manganese, and so forth. You can find those in mines on land, but there are serious problems with the mines, where they are, how they're being run, the human rights violations that are happening there. So there's a lot of pressure to get the metals from elsewhere. And there's metals in these small little nodules that I talked about last episode, if you haven't seen it or you haven't listened to it, go back to the app, after this episode, go back to the last episode, you can take a look about talking about dark oxygen and how these nodules potentially oxygen or help produce oxygen in the deep sea. Here we're in a situation where it's like, hey, there are these nodules that have these metals that can be easily mined or not easily, but mined in the deep sea, we need to take these metals and produce those metals so that we can make these batteries. Here are the couple of problems with that. One, we don't know the damage we're gonna do to deep sea, right? Deep sea mining, it's not gonna be easy, it's something, the deep sea we don't really understand, and I take you back to the deep sea horizon, the leak that happened there, how detrimental it was to the Gulf of Mexico and to the people, other people who use the Gulf of Mexico for fishing, for tourism and so forth, how bad that was and how bad it still is in some terms to the poisoning of the environment and the water quality and the still, the ramifications that we're paying, the consequences that we're paying for as we speak, and that's been what, 10 to 15 years almost since it happened, so it's a problem, right? We need to ensure that we understand the deep sea better before we start messing around with it, and especially now with this dark oxygen thing that we've discovered and need more research on, is there is actual oxygen being produced in the deep sea, in the dark, and it's really thought to be done by these nodules because they increase the voltage that allows the separation of oxygen from water, so there's more oxygen in the deep sea than we originally thought, we thought that it would be decreasing, but it's actually increasing in some spots, and then the biodiversity increases in those spots, so more research needs to be done there, so we'd almost say, hey, this moratorium or this precautionary pause that some of these countries are looking for, that might be a good idea at this point, but the ISA continues to push so that we start to explore and start to do more quote unquote research to see, hey, is this actually viable, can we take out nodules and will it be profitable for those companies to actually do it? Now with that said, with this push for these mandates, for these two mandates, one authorized, and control mining for the common heritage of all mankind, and to protect the marine environment from harmful impacts, is really run by this ISA, but really run by the leader of this ISA, and for the longest time, the leader has been a British lawyer, just looking at the article for his name, it's Lodge, I'm trying to see what his full name is. Can't find it right now. We'll just call him Lodge for now. Lodge, he's basically been the guy. He's been the leader, he's a British lawyer, and he's been kind of running on Michael Lodge, a British lawyer who's been sponsored by Kiribati, a small Pacific state, and so there's a battle for this leadership, and the reason why is that a lot of people have said that trust is broken and leadership is missing, and this is Leticia Cavallo, who was sponsored by the Brazilian government, and she's here to say, hey, I'm running for the leadership for this, because the trust is broken and leadership is missing. Later than, at the ISA, they're gonna be voting for this, for this leader, who's gonna be facing critical votes that could impact the nascent industry for years to come, so who will be the next leader? So right now, the battle for leadership might be, might sound like it to the average person, like a remote technical concern, but the election of the authority secretary, according to this article in the Guardian general, comes at a pivotal moment, not pivotal, pivotal moment, for the deep sea mining and therefore, the future is in the future of the world's ocean, so the cause for pause on exploitation of the seabed are intensifying, so now we have 32 countries who are saying, hey, we need to have some sort of moratorium, we need to say no to deep sea, but if deep sea mining goes ahead, scientists warn of large scale, severe and irreversible harm to the global ecosystems. Now, what happens in the movies when you don't hear, when you don't listen to scientists? Bad stuff happens, and we're already seeing it in real life with climate change, when scientists were talking about 30, 40 years ago, 50 years ago, now we're not listening and look at the situation we're in now, we're now considering deep sea mining to help with climate change, which could further destroy the planet or hurt the planet. Now, the ISA, just to give a little background, is governed by 168 member states, plus the European Union, so it has those two mandates, and so during Lodge's eight year tenure, he has been accused of closeness to the mining industry, overstepping his neutral role, end of presiding over an authority that lacks transparency, and so a New York Times piece published earlier this month also accused him of pushing countries to accelerate the start of deep sea mining. Of course, he denies those claims. Now, Cavallo, a Brazilian oceanographer and international diplomat, says it is time for meaningful transformation at the seabed authority, the current deep divide of views among the state parties in the Council is heavily due to the lack of trust and leadership on top of whatever scientific gaps we may have or a symmetry of knowledge between the members. Now, here's the problem, when you have a leadership that's in charge of two mandates that could be considered opposing, there's gonna be a viewpoint of some of the parties to say, hey, this leader is leaning towards one side or another. Cavallo seems to be leaning more towards the precautionary approach, which to be honest, not mad at, to say, hey, look, there are some serious concerns that some very smart people and accomplished people are considering, and there's also the mining companies who are like, hey, we need to get on this right now, we've invested a ton of money into exploring the deep sea to get deep sea mining. We wanna make sure that we can mine at some point soon because time is money at this point, and they wanna get into production as soon as possible. So, so far, in terms of contracts, the authority has issued 31 exploration contracts, sponsored by 14 nations in an area covering about 1.5 square kilometers of the world sea bed, mostly in the equatorial Pacific between Hawaii and Mexico, and these also, these areas, just to let you know, have been explored in some cases, in certain areas, and they're very, very, very diverse when you're looking at the actual sea bed, they're very diverse in animals. These contracts with countries including China, Russia, South Korea, India, Britain, France, Poland, Brazil, Japan, Jamaica, and Belgium, allow exploration to sea bed, but not commercial mining, so just exploration. No exploitation contracts, which would permit mining to go ahead, have been issued yet, but efforts by industry in some states have accelerated the race to mine, so there are some people who are trying to get ahead and seeing what they can do. One firm, they're called the Metals Company, TMC, based in Canada, yippee-doo, I'm not happy about that, and partnered with the Pacific States of Nauru and Tonga and Kiribati has said it will apply for permission to mine later this year before rules and regulations are likely to be in place. Now, here's the problem right there in that sentence. Before rules and regulations are in place, they want to mine for commercial purposes. Right, before the rules and regulations are in place, this is the problem when we start to move forward on something that's developed. It takes time to understand the environment that you're going to exploit. You know, essentially, you're going to be digging up on the surface or the sea bed, and you're going to be moving things around. We need to know what the effects are going to be in that, and I just don't know if we're going to be able to find out enough information before this goes, and now they want to move before the rules and regulations are in place. That seems a little bit presumptive there. I just don't like the fact that this is something that, you know, we need to go. So, Cavallo, who's running for this leadership, claims it as large as a legend, close relationship with the company, that is the problem. Trust claims, or trust she claims began to ebb away in 2018 after the Secretary General appeared in a video wearing a hard hat with the Deep Green logo on it. Deep Green is the former name of the metals company. What is intriguing is the leadership of multilateral organization and of a multilateral organization embracing one company's demands, pushing it into the ISA's council's process to develop mining code, she says. So, that's the problem, right? So, you're having this leader who's like, seems to be pushing what's being said by this company, saying, hey, look, this is what we need to do, but we don't even have rules and regulations yet. We don't even understand what the problem is. We haven't even explored the deep sea to the point where we know what's gonna happen. I mean, we just found out about dark oxygen, like we just found out about it. I can't tell you enough how big this discovery is, how big it is to the deep sea and our understanding of the animals that are into the deep sea. At this point, we were looking at like hydrothermal vents and how animals are surviving in like really high temperatures and under sulfur conditions, sulfuric acid conditions, like it's crazy to see that happening. Now we know we have areas where there's pockets of increased oxygen. It's insane. So, as she goes on to say that the, Kavala goes on to say there is a problem with being seen to be too close to a company that is driven by results of for its investors. Again, see that conflict of interest. ISA is a regulatory body with a dual mandate, determining the rules and procedures for deep sea mining while protecting the deep sea ecosystems. That means you would think that there is a precautionary approach that needs to be taken, right? A precautionary approach. But that doesn't seem to be happening, right? It seems like we are continuing to move forward without saying, hey, look, this is not really good. We need to make sure that we're not just doing it for investors. We're doing this to protect the ocean. This is gonna have much more consequences to the world than it is for these investors. So, I think it's really important. Now, Kavala has worked as a regulator in the Brazil's oil industry, which is really interesting. And she believes the rules governing deep sea mining will take time and that no mining application should be approved before they are complicated, before they're completed. Now, look, I'm biased already, but I like Kavala. I like the fact that she's taking a precautionary approach. I hope she gets put into power because this is gonna be something that will be needed, right? And we know Kiribati is backing Lodge in getting the leadership again. And we know Kiribati is one of the countries that wants to start mining. So right then and there, there's a problem, right? So you're backed by this country, but they wanna start commercial mining. You have been accused of being too close to mining companies wearing their hard hats in videos, saying, hey, we need to start deep sea mining. But you're also moving forward with some of the things or trying to push and accelerate deep sea mining aspiration and commercial deep sea mining, I'm sure, goes along with that without even having rules and regulations in place. This makes no sense whatsoever. And just judging based on what's happened in the past in terms of how the meetings have gone in Kingston, how hotels have been switched and how observing nonprofit organizations and experts have been put in different rooms so that delegates have to move rooms or call the people who they need to, who they need to confide in to be like, hey, what's going on here? This is what this country's saying that we need to do. They wanna go ahead with deep sea mining. What's the problem? Where are the risks, all this kind of stuff? They were in a different room and they weren't even allowed to go into the room where the negotiations were happening. It doesn't provide a lot of transparency. It doesn't allow for critique. It doesn't allow for transparency. It's sketchy, it's sketchy at best. And that's not good. You want this process. If there is gonna be deep sea mining, which I don't believe there should be, but if there is gonna be deep sea mining, you wanna make sure that the process is transparent. You wanna make sure that the rules and regulations are not only gonna be put in place that are gonna be more in the cautionary approach, but you wanna make sure that they're enforced. And that's a lot of work to put in place. It's a lot of work to put in place. So I think it'll be interesting to see where everything is gonna go, Lodge did not interview for this article. So we didn't really get his side on this, but it seems like Carvalo is somebody who is willing to be transparent. Somebody is willing to keep the oceans' health in mind, but still be able to put those rules and regulations in place to mind. I think it's inevitable that deep sea mining is gonna happen, but how it's gonna happen is a very important, it's a very important process. It needs to be, we need to make sure we're doing it properly, and we need to make sure that we're doing everything we can to protect the deep sea, because we know nothing about the deep sea. We know very, very little about the deep sea. And so discoveries like we talked about in the last episode with the dark oxygen, that's gonna be something that needs to be explored more, and we need to make sure that we know more about it before we make any crazy claims that we need to do some deep sea mining, right? So that's it for me today. I would love to hear your point of view. Who do you think should get into power? Do you think it should be Carvalo, or do you think it should be Lodge? I would love to know what you think. If you're on Spotify, listening to this on Spotify, I'll put a poll, and you can tell me which person you think should be going in. And yeah, that's it. If you want to leave a comment on the YouTube video, you can do that 'cause I'm doing video podcasting now on Spotify and on YouTube, but also still doing the audio thing. So look me up on Apple, look me up on Spotify, look me up on Overcast or whatever app you love to listen to on your podcast, I will be there. And if I'm not, let me know, and I will try and get on it. I'm trying to be on every podcast app that I know that is available. But also, if you want to get a hold of me, you can do so by DMing me at how to protect the ocean on Instagram. That's at how to protect the ocean. And I want to thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of The How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation. (upbeat music) (keyboard clicking)
