Welcome to the speaker for Blue Podcast, session 159. What's up everybody, today we've got a very important show. I talk about advocacy and I talk a lot about ocean conservation, but I have never really covered a specific problem, a local problem that people are having and that want to do something about it. So what I'm going to do today is that I've identified a problem, somebody has come to me wanting me to sign a petition and I want to share it with you because I think it's important. And not just for the fact of an ethical portion, it's a fisheries problem that could detriment a specific area in the world and I want to share it with you so that you understand what the problem might be and that maybe if you feel compelled, you can afterwards, I'll send you a link to the petition and you can sign it yourself. So stay tuned for this episode, this is an important episode of the speaker for Blue Podcast. Welcome to the Speak Up for Blue Podcast, helping you get involved in ocean conservation. And now, here's your host, he still puts his hands in the air because he doesn't care, Andrew Lewin. And it's an episode where I cover a specific problem, it's a local problem that's happening in muscle Bay, South Africa. And of course, I've never been there, however, I came across something in my email that was sent out to a number of people, I saw it on social media. And it's essentially a petition to stop long lining in muscle Bay. And today, what I'm going to do is I'm going to talk to you about the problems with long lining. I'm going to talk to you problems with noncompliance in terms of fisheries monitoring, talk about some things that the government, governments around the world need to do to better monitor fishing and ensure that overfishing in their area is not occurring or in their country is not occurring. So a very important episode, I want you guys to listen up, I think this is really, it's kind of cool because it's like a case study and it's a real case study and there's actionable items that you can take that will help, you know, move this motion forward or move this demand forward. And I think I think it's very important. So here we go. Let's get into it. So yesterday, I received an email from, which was an email blast from a specific person. I'm not going to name them. Well, actually it was from fish, actually I should say, it's from Finn's alive, Esther Overbeak, who's in charge of this, Finn's alive, keep Finn's alive in South Africa. She's been on the program before I'll link to the, the episode in the show notes, which will be speakerforblue.com/session159. She emailed me and a number of her colleagues and other colleagues that, a problem that she identified in a muscle bay and she wants something to be done by it. And what they want to do is they want to petition, what she wants to do, she wants to do that, keep Finn's alive, wants to petition the, the government, which is the state government, I guess, which is, let's see here. The department of, sorry, the department of agriculture, forestry and fisheries, which is the acronym is DAF, D-A-F-F. And what they want to do is they want to open up a public forum to discuss this problem and what is happening. So essentially here's the problem. There are a number of boats that are coming into muscle bay and setting out long lines. And so it's long, so they're, they're, they're trying to get their, there's, let's see here, there's a petition that they created over concerns for the in short, immersal shark long line fishing vessels that are coming in to muscle bay waters. So what they're doing is they're specifically targeting bottom shark. So sharks that live on the bottom. And what they're going to do is they're going to set out these long lines, which could run for a number of kilometers. So it's a, it's basically a large fishing line with a number of hooks attached to this line that run out, you know, a number of kilometers, depending on the size of the bay and depending on where they're at, sometimes it's gone, stretched for 20, 30, 40 kilometers, maybe even more than that. And there are a number of baited hooks on those long lines. The fishermen will set the long line, they will bait, well, they'll bait it, then they'll set the long line, and then they'll leave it for a number, either a day or two or so for the number of like a specific interval. They will go to the long line to check the lines and on it, if they catch something, they will keep it. Now of course, there are, there are rules and regulations on what they can keep and what they can't keep, however, that requires monitoring and regulation. And the problem with long lining is it's not necessarily targeting specific species. There are a number of other species, such as other non targeted sharks, sea turtles, sea birds, and marine mammals, that often get, get stuck on the hook because they see this bait, they don't understand that it's, it's on the hook and they actually go and eat it. Because once the line is set, the fishing vessel leaves the area because they don't want to disturb any of the fish, they don't want to scare any of the fish away. So there's, there's no discrimination on the hook to target a specific species. So it's, it takes all the species and then by the time they go back, if it's a marine mammal or sea turtle that breathes air, by the time they go back, or even, you know, a whale or a seal or anything like that, something that breathes air, by the time they go back and check, you know, a day or two later, a couple of hours later, that animal may have already died just from his fixation from drowning because they have to get up to the surface to actually breathe. And these, these, these lines may not let them get to the surface or the fact that they're, they're on a hook may not allow them to get to the surface to breathe. So a lot of other species, a lot of bycatch gets killed in the process. Muscle Bay is a special bay because it has a pretty good citizen science programs or number citizen science programs that run out of that bay. There are a lot of sharks, a lot of different types of species of sharks, dermersal and pelagic that will come to that bay and feed for whatever, or whatever purpose. This is a bay that's important where the sharks as well as other species are worth more alive than dead. And I think we're seeing that, that sort of trend around the world and people are recognizing that. You have people in Indonesia, the government of Indonesia who are blowing fishing boats that are foreign fishing boats out of the water because they're coming in and they're trying to catch sharks for finning. And these are particularly Chinese vessels that are kind of coming in. And what's happening is they're blowing them out of the water. The Navy's blowing them out of the water because they say, no, we don't want you guys to come in here. We don't want you to fish our, our fish first of all, it's illegal, but we don't want you guys to fish our fish because we know that they're, they're better off alive than dead, especially the sharks because that brings in tourists, that brings in, it's an ecotourism industry, sea turtles, manta rays, all that stuff is, is an ecotourism industry. The divers go out and they specifically dive with either sharks or manta rays and it's actually worth more money in the long term, it's worth more money. So this is a big problem. Now key fins alive wants to make sure, not necessarily, they want to kind of a bit of a halt, but they want an impact assessment on what's going to happen to muscle bay with this, with this, this, this, I guess, invasion of a commercial shark fishing vessels, long line fishing vessels. And you know, I think the government, the, the DAF, the Department of Agriculture, forestry and fisheries needs to step in and say, Hey, look, this is what's happening. There's fishermen coming in. Why are they, first of all, why are they coming in? Because this, these fishing vessels are from Eastern Cape, another bay adjacent to muscle bay or close by, and they're, apparently it's, it's, they're spending a lot of fuel, spending money on a lot of fuel to come over here. It's, it's a bit of a trek by boat to come over to muscle bay and actually fish. So there's a big problem here because it's a new bay. They're probably coming over here because there's not many fish or commercial sharks left in their bay because they've, they've probably overfished them. The big problem is nobody's monitoring these fishing vessels. They're just allowed to go in and get what they want. They're usually quota set. There are illegal species that you cannot catch. There's a way you have to deal with bycatch. Either you have to report what you've, what has been killed or you have to, you know, set specific hooks. So I did an interview a few years ago with a, with a bycatch.org, a representative from bycatch or Kate MacLennan, and we were talking about how there's specific hook, circle hooks that you can use that allow marine mammals and other sea, sea turtles and other fish who, or an, and fish who can actually, if they're non-targeted species, they actually can get off the hook in time so they can go and breathe and, and survive. So for the marine mammals and turtle to air breathers. So there are specific regulations and there are specific strategies you can take to decrease bycatch and make sure you're not catching illegal species and of course you have to obey the quotas because the quotas are there for a specific reason. If you don't, you're going to overfish. And that happens a lot of times because the governments aren't monitoring when they should be. Now there are a lot of programs around the world that require long-lying boats and trawling boats to have fisheries observers on the boat. These fisheries observers are usually marine scientists. They represent the government on the ship, even though they don't directly work for the government. They usually work for some type of consulting firm. However, they monitor the fish. They take lengths. They take weights. They record the species, the number, the health and so forth to give a lot of information to the government on the stock assessment that goes towards their stock assessment for that particular species or number of species. Here, okay, well this net, this mesh size of a trawl net is catching this amount of bycatch. And to decrease that, we have to increase the size of the net to allow some of the smaller fish to get out. Or this long lining is not working very well, it's not monitoring very well. This fishing vessel is not doing very well or it is doing very well and it's keeping up with the regulation. So these fisheries observers become very important in terms of monitoring the stock as well as monitoring the fishing boats who do, you know, who follow the rules and so forth and those who don't, right? Because that something has to be done. So it's important that the DAF actually monitor these fisheries. If they don't, the fisheries can be blown out of proportion, overfishing happens, illegal fisheries, illegal fish are caught, bycatch happens, and the quotas go above what they're supposed to. And then you have a collapse fishery eventually. And then all the other avenues, all the other industries who are involved in muscle bay that require or that live off the healthy ecosystems and healthy fish and abundance of fish and marine mammals and turtles and so forth will go by the wayside. They'll destroy the entire social, economical ecosystem as well as the environmental ecosystem. This is a big problem. And this is why Keyfins Alive is saying we need to do something about it. And what they've done is they've created a petition on thepetitionsite.com and I'm going to put the link in the show notes, which is speakerforblue.com/session159. And we need to make sure that this petition goes forward. Now why a petition? I've in the past, I've actually spoke negatively on online petitions because a lot of times there are multiple petitions for the same issue. And I find that that may not be effective. Of course, with this petition, that the petitions have to be effective. They have to be sent to the right people. Usually it helps for an organization, a good organization that has a lot of clout with the local government or the receiver of the petition to say, hey, look, our supporters, the people who are constituents, the people who actually follow us, think this is important and this is why and outline specific reasons why. And this is what Keyfins Alive organization has done. They've created a great petition that is going to be sent to the Department of Agriculture, Forestry, and Fisheries in South Africa so that the people there can understand that there are a lot of people who think that not only from South Africa, but around the world, who think that muscle bay is important and these fisheries, there's an impact assessment that needs to be done and monitored accordingly to ensure that the fisheries will last. The ecosystem will not be destroyed. That is the purpose of this petition and that's why I'm supporting this petition, this petition. Now, you may be asking yourself, well, you know, I live in the US or I live in Canada or I live in the UK or I live in Australia. Why would the government of South Africa feel that this is important? And I'll tell you why. There are two reasons. One, you might be a tourist in South Africa and you might very well go out with the citizen science programs of muscle bay and that is tours of money to the government. And if you feel strongly about this issue and you want that government to know about it, you should put your name on it to say, you know what, I am a potential tourist. I want to make sure that muscle bay stays healthy so that I can visit it one day, do a shark cage dive or participate in some ocean research or some sort of thing, some sort of program that will bring in tourism dollars to that area. The other thing is these international campaigns tend to work really well. And I'm going to give you an example. And that actually two examples, one to an example to South Africa and the other more of a worldwide example. And I spoke about this on last week's episode of Ocean Talk Friday a little bit. We interviewed Angelo Villagomez back in September. I'll link to the episode in here in the show notes. He is a, at the time he was an associate for the Pew Charitable Trust Shark Conservation Program. And what his specific role was to go around to the different islands, the South Pacific Islands and the Caribbean Islands and so forth, small and developing states. And work with the governments to establish networks of protected areas that will protect sharks specifically and their habitat. He was successful because he created a cut out of a hammerhead shark called Shark Stanley, named it Shark Stanley. And what you could do with that cut out is he sent it around, shared it on social media. And what you can do is you can print off that cut out, cut it out, color it, decorate, whatever you want, or print it in color, and then take a picture with, and what you're doing is you're saying I'm supporting the protection of sharks. You know, specific hammerhead shark or ocean white tip or something like that. And what he did is he made that go viral as much as he could. And it did. He had, he had young children from all over the world pose with this. He had adults. He had teenagers, people opposing saying we care about sharks and we want sharks protecting. And what he did is he collected all those photos, printed them out and put them in folders, gave them to representatives of the CITES board. This is the, essentially it's a convention of international trade of species. Okay. I don't know the acronym, but essentially what that is, they regulate the trade, the international trade of specific species. So in other words, if something goes on the CITES protection, then the list, then it is very difficult to import or export any type of, any type of that species. So what Angelo or the Pew and a lot of other organizations want to do was to ensure that delegates understood that people cared about sharks and they needed them protected. So there were a number of sharks and rays that were up for protection. Before the meeting occurred and the vote occurred, Angelo and his colleagues handed out these folders with all the pictures of shark stallions showing everybody who loved the sharks. Showed it to those, to those, to those delegates, the delegates looked at them, had it handed to them. They, whether they looked them or not, I don't know, but most likely they looked at them. They went into the vote and the first vote for the shark protection was one, it was to vote for protection for that species of shark and it won by one vote, by one vote. Now, Angelo admits it may not have, it may not have had to do with the pictures that he said, but he likes to think that it does that one vote, that one voter that decided to vote for protection could have looked at all those pictures right before that vote and said, oh, wow, there's a lot of people here who care internationally, who care about sharks. Maybe I should vote for, vote for protection. Then that protection went forward and then all the subsequent votes that happened for all the other species that were, that were supposed to, that want to be protected, went in more of a landslide victory than anything else. So it went from one vote victory and then all the other species just followed and a lot of species were protected, which was unheard of in the past because these species had been up for protection in the past. And now we have Saidi's protection, which is a pretty, you know, well regulated, protect, international protection by a lot of different countries. You know, when you go through a border, you know, if you have specific types of reefs, or corals that are on a specific list that get traded in the aquarium trade, you cannot bring them into Canada because they're on the Saidi's list. You will get fined and they will get confiscated, you know, saying with a lot of other species, you know, even parts of species like rhino horns and elephant tusks and things like that. So it's not only aquatic, it's all the other different types of animals. So this isn't, you know, these campaigns, the point of the story is these campaigns are extremely important. These worldwide campaigns are important. So you may not have to live in South Africa to have a say. The fact that you might go as a tourist one time to South Africa is important to that government and to say, hey, you know what, we need to protect our environment because people are caring all over the world and have actually taken the time to sign this petition. Now the other example is more of a local one to South Africa and when I interviewed Esther, who is the founder of Finn's Alive, she talked about what Finn's Alive does and Finn's Alive essentially is a campaign to promote shark awareness and shark protection and what she's done is she has a number of t-shirts, she has a number of posters and she has this cute little stuffed animal of a shark. And she goes around to all the meetings and to all the politicians and the government, as well as the local researchers and local people, kids, local schools and so forth and educates them on sharks and then they can take pictures with this stuffed animal to show their support for shark protection and shark awareness. And it's extremely effective because more and more people are being educated that would normally not be aware of what issues are happening with sharks. That education leads to protection. It leads to, it destroys the ignorance around what sharks are going through and it allows protection. In South Africa, a lot of sharks are taken, fished and taken for their meat and that and a lot of people in South Africa eat shark meat as well as it's exported to Europe. That is, so the key Finn's Alive ensures that people are like, hey, wait a minute, shark populations are actually dwindling and we need to protect them. And so they get educated on that and then they become advocates because they're educated and usually, you know, there's a saying is once you know something, you cannot un-know it and you have to do something about it. And I think, and I'm paraphrasing of course, but I think it's an important aspect of it and it's been a very successful campaign so far because they've educated a lot of people and I think, especially when you educate kids, that next generation is more aware, more aware of the issues and tends to get away from that, you know, from the old ways. So I think it's very important. So I'm going to cut this short, it's been 20 minutes so far on this podcast. I usually do it a little bit longer, but I want you guys to take action. If you feel that this is an important issue to you, whether you're going to travel to South Africa or not, if you want to protect sharks, go to the link in the show notes. Or if you're on the pod, if you're listening to this on your phone, it'll be in the link to in the podcast and your podcast app and go and click on that link and sign the petition because I think it's very important that people all over the world have a say in what happens in muscle bay. So that's the episode. I just want to thank you very much for listening. I also want to let you know that we, the Google Play Store, so if you have an Android device, it's been difficult for people on Android to listen to podcasts. So now the Google Play Store has actually accepted or actually opened up podcasting and has a podcast app. I don't know how it works particularly, but I know that we've submitted our app and we got approved and it should come up any day now. So once that comes up, I'm going to put links to that and you can subscribe through the Google Play Store. So if you have an Android device and you want to listen to our podcast and you haven't listened to it before, then you will be able to subscribe to it and listen to all our episodes that we've done in the past. We've done almost 160 episodes. That is amazing. And I think, I think, you know, we do episodes like this to make you aware of what's going on in the world. And you know, whether you want to be an advocate or a conservation or an honor, you want to sign the petition. Now I've done my part and made you aware it's up to you to take action. So I just want to thank you for listening. This has been an amazing experience for me so far as a podcast and we're going to continue this experience, but you have been listening to this week of the Blue Podcast. I am your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a happy Monday. A great start to your week. Take action on this petition if you feel the need and have the conservation.
