Welcome to the Speak Up for Blue Podcast, session 155. Imagine this folks, a government that is trying to cut emissions by ensuring that within eight years every household in the province of Ontario will have a hybrid or electric car in their driveway. Imagine that. That's what we're going to talk about and more climate change cutting emission sort of initiatives that the province of Ontario, where I live in Canada, is trying to put forth and put into place in the next eight between the next eight years and in 2050. So we're going to talk all about that on this episode of the Speak Up for Blue Podcasts. Stay tuned. Welcome to the Speak Up for Blue Podcast, helping you get involved in ocean conservation. And now, here's your host, Love's football so much, I mean he really, really likes it. Andrew Lewin. Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the Speak Up for Blue Podcasts, your voice for the ocean. I am your host, Andrew Lewin, founder, SpeakUpForBlue.com, marine ecologist and self-proclaimed oceanpreneur. And today is normally Ocean Talk Friday, but we're going to switch it up a little bit because I'm in Cuba right now as you're listening to this, not while I'm saying this. I prerecorded this. But I heard an article that was spoken on the radio, it was an article that's in a paper here, a global paper called, or a national paper called the Globe and Mail here in Canada. And it had an article written about how it obtained a confidential document for the province of Ontario, the government of Ontario, on how it's going to establish, and I quote, it's going to establish, what is it here, let me just see here. It's going to establish a committee to oversee Canada's climate change action plan. And it's essentially going to be a new ultra low carbon utility, an agency with a sweeping mandate to change everything about how Ontarians use energy to reduce carbon emissions drastically. Now, in that plan, there's a couple of initiatives. One of those initiatives are a little more short term than others. The one that we're talking about is that they plan, the government plans on making sure that there's going to be a zero emission or hybrid electric vehicle in every multi car household driveway within eight years is to be expected to be unveiled next month. And this program is meant to supplement a cap and trade system for carbon emissions that takes effect next year. So what they want to do essentially is they want to say, look, we're going to make hybrid cars and low emission car, zero emission cars available to the Ontarians as consumers. To me, I think this is a great idea, but we're going to talk all about that in a second. And I'm going to tell you why, but I'm going to go continue on what they want to do. They want to draft, they have a draft plan promises to get at least 1.7 million electric and hybrid cars in use by 2024. Take 7 million gas burning vehicles off the road by 2030 and ensure that by 2050, 80% of residents use public transit walk or cycle to work. That my friends is a huge undertaking. It goes on. It would also cut emissions from buildings by 15% by 2030 and ensure most buildings are emissions free by 2050. This would be done by helping homeowners and businesses install solar panels or geothermal systems and undertake retrofits and by changing the building code to require renovations and new constructions to make buildings more energy efficient. And it would buy offsets to make the Ontario government carbon neutral next year. By 2030, the government will cut its own emissions by 50%. The plan would provide funding for industry, which to switch a cleaner factories and for research in new low carbon technologies. Now, this is from an article at 24news.ca that I'm reading a lot of this stuff. We're going to put together, we're going to put this in the show notes, it's speakupforblue.com/session155. That's all I'm going to read. I'm going to let you read the rest of the article. It's actually quite interesting. Now, the radio program that I actually heard, that actually where I heard this is CFRB-1010, is a talk show, somewhat conservative, I'm going to say. I'm not a conservative by sort of politics or by thinking, I'm very much a liberal. But it's an interesting concept. This is a liberal government. A lot of people are against this program. They don't think it's going to work, they just think it's too ambitious. And I do think that part of this program is too ambitious, however I like the idea. I don't know if it'll fully work, however I like the idea of pressing forward that, look, we're going to try and make these changes, this government's saying we have to make these changes because of climate change. And Ontario is probably one of the highest energy emitters in the country just because there's so many people here. Gridlock, you know, traffic and gridlock is a huge problem. A lack of public transit is a huge problem here in Toronto where I just live like 35 minutes outside I grew up in Toronto. It's been a problem for a long time. We have maybe three subway lines as opposed to Montreal or New York City that have multiple and many other US cities that have multiple subway lines. And the subway lines that are in place are used, but the buses, there's a lot of buses, but they're just not used very efficiently. We have trains coming out of the city into the city, however they don't run all the time. They don't run very effectively. I find they're getting better, but there aren't just, there just aren't that many trains to get the commuters coming into Toronto really in there on time for everybody. So there's a lot of upgrades that needs to be done, a lot of infrastructure upgrades that need to be done to really make this full plan go forth. But I like the idea, and the one thing I like is to ensure that a zero emission or hybrid electric vehicle is in every multi car household driveway within eight years. That I think is going to be a fantastic plan. I think that's more attainable than we actually think. The only thing that's not that really puts it out of reach, and I think the government's going to have to really bring this down is the price. The price of a zero emission car, the price of a Tesla, a fully electric car is astronomical for most people. I cannot afford the Tesla, whatever one or two that they have right now that starts at about $100,000 or $85,000 and moves up very quickly. The Tesla three that they just announced, and there's a huge waiting list of a buddy who put $1,000 down on this Tesla, he's, he's on a wait list for two hundred ninety second or whatever that might be two hundred ninety second thousand, sorry, that whatever that might be, and whenever that will get ready, I think it'll be ready in three or four years just because I don't think Tesla as a company expected the demand to be so much during that time. However, they, you know, they got a lot of the, that the sale of the Tesla three, the reason why I think it went so, it went, there was so many sales was because so many deposits put down because it was affordable. It started at $35,000 American, which is a, is an affordable car. It's not, you know, the economic car option, but it's an affordable car, probably, you know, reachable to like a tat Toyota Maxima, Nissan Altima, those types of cars that are sort of mid-sized, and I would say mid-level mid-range cars in terms of price, now it says it starts at $35,000. I don't know what that includes and what you would need to complete that sale, maybe go into $40,000 or $50,000, maybe even $60,000, I'm sure if people really want to go to that luxury-type car, but it's, you know, the price has come down for that. Now I would love to see the price come down even more so that more sales can be done, and more people can be driving those cars, and I think that's the only way you're going to see a second car in a multi-car household driveway within eight years is the price has to come down drastically. Now with the sale of Tesla, and that monumental sale, that historical sale of the Tesla 3, a lot of other companies are starting now to design the zero emission car, the fully electric car, or even probably more hybrid electric cars, so you're going to see more of these cars on the road, more affordable, more, there's going to be more availability, so we might see it, whether we see it in eight years or ten years, I don't know, but I would like to see more and more, I would buy a second vehicle that was a zero emission or hybrid electric car if I could afford it. When I bought our second car, I looked around and I couldn't afford a hybrid car, and that was really the reality, and of course, they're not resaling very right now because they're still new, so a lot of people who have used cars and sell them, they don't usually see hybrid, I check they don't usually see hybrids on the market, so of course, and fully electric cars are just not there. So I think that part of the plan for Ontario Government is somewhat reachable. Now the other aspect is will people like these cars? I know a lot of car aficionados, people who love cars, really like the old style, dirty, really high powered cars. The Tesla kind of matches that, it's a very interesting car, it's getting a lot of interest from car aficionados, and I think we're going to see more and more people going that route. But it's still new, and a lot of people, it takes a while for people to change, but the more the availability there is, I think more people, especially in the newer generation, these millennials that we keep talking about, and everybody's so negative, every time I talk to one, being environmentally friendly is a part of their lives. It's etched in their minds. So that is a non-issue, I think as people grow up in the millennials in the next generation after that. So I think we're going to see a real change in the future, especially if we see more availability of these cars. Now the next part of the plan is really, the cutting of the emissions by 15% by 2030, and almost making sure that buildings are emissions-free by 2050. I can't really speak to that, because I don't know what goes into putting these things into place. I think what's going to happen is it's going to, by allowing buildings to do this, there's going to be a lot of supplements involved, or a lot of subsidies involved by the government. They're going to have to really throw the incentive to these property managers, these buildings, to make sure that it's worth their while to get their emissions-free building. I think that's going to be a very difficult process to do. Now doing it over the next 10 to 30 years, maybe that ends up being a very good choice. Maybe that's attainable with all the construction and stuff. But Ontario is a big province, and there are a lot of buildings in the province, and to get them all emissions-free by 2050 could be a very difficult task. But maybe 15% by 2030, maybe that's not such a difficult task. I don't know. One thing I do know is you provide those construction jobs, those refit jobs, that's going to help the economy. We always talk about jobs and how jobs should be done in oil and gas. We should be developing oil and gas and natural resources because it provides jobs. By providing these construction jobs to retrofit these buildings to make the emissions-free, that could provide jobs for the next 30 years, and probably on just in terms of the maintenance of these buildings. So I think that's an interesting concept, but again, I can't really speak to that aspect of it, but it seems like all buildings-emissions-free by 2050 seems a little out of reach, but maybe we can get down there at some point, and maybe we can get close. To be honest, I'd rather see one or two buildings-emissions-free in the next 10 years. I'd be happy to see that, but the more the better. So I'd love to see that. The other aspect was, I think, a little unreachable, and that is to say it's going to cut traffic by 80%, so that means only 20% of commuters and people who are going to work in the morning and coming home at night will be driving. The rest, 80% will be either biking, taking public transit, or walking to work. I'm going to put this into context for you, for people who don't live in Ontario. The way Ontario is built, the way-I can speak to a lot of stuff in Toronto and the surrounding areas is things are not close, and if they are close, in Toronto itself, it's very expensive to live. It's the second most expensive city in Canada to live, apart from Vancouver. Usually houses right now, your detachable home, single detachable home, is about $1 million. Give or take, $100,000 or $200,000, but that's the average house. The average condo now is about $450,000, quite expensive for a 600-square-foot place. So you're looking at higher prices, higher cost of living within the cities, where a lot of the jobs are focused. So what's happening is because of that, you're getting people who are moving outside the city into something more affordable in the suburbs and then commuting in. So if you expect people to walk and cycle, those are the people within the major cities who can actually have the distance and the time to actually walk or cycle. That's great. If they want to do that, that's wonderful. Public transit, they can also take public transit, but if your business is not on one of the subway lines in Toronto, that can be a very difficult process. Or if you're in a town where the public transit is not that available, I live in Burlington and the public transit here is not as strong as in Toronto because it's a smaller town. It's a city of about 175, 200,000 people. So you're not seeing a lot of buses, you're not seeing a lot of people take public transit. You see a lot of people biking, you see a lot of people walking into a smaller town, but not that many. Most people drive and traffic in these cities are getting crazy because there are more cars on the road. Some households, most households have two cars. Some households have more if they have children who are still living at home. Once they get their license, they get a car or they're in their 20s and they have a car to get to work. The way things are built in Ontario is everything's spread out. It's not like Europe where you can walk or bike or take a motorcycle or a moped or something like that, that will actually get you to work or get you to where you want to be. You need something that will get you from A to B that could be 30 minutes away and even longer with traffic. That's going to pose a problem. It's just the layout of the land. If you expect people to move closer to the urban areas that are too expensive to live, whereas it's too expensive to live, that could be a big problem because you're not going to have people who can afford a million dollar home. I know I can't. So you're getting that problem there. So I think that is a little unrealistic in terms of getting people only 20% of commuters to drive and 80% to actually bike, walk or take public transit. If your public transit system is not up to par, why are you expecting people to take it? Right. That I don't understand. So the big issue in Toronto where there's a subway system is that the subway systems are crap and there's always going to be gridlock as long as the subways are not as readily available because you can't get everywhere you want in a subway and the buses take too long sometimes. I remember I took a bus when my first job at a conservation authority here in Toronto, I took a job from my home, take the bus from my home to the subway station, which was probably a good half hour 45 minute bus ride and then take another bus that goes further from that station all the way over to the area and then walk there. And to be honest, it would take me an hour and a half, two hours to get to work and to get home. And that's a lot of time. If I had a car, it would take me a half hour, even in traffic. So and now there's a highway, a toll highway that I could have taken that would have made it even faster, you know, maybe 20 minutes. So, you know, there's a lot of problems with the city of Toronto in terms of busing, commuting to work using public transport because it's just it's just not efficient and it's just not time efficient and it's not readily available for everybody. And it's just it's not it's not efficient for everybody. You just can't get to work on time or you're spending all of your time on a bus, right? And honestly, I don't want to spend four hours on a bus every day after working for eight hours. That's 12 hours gone. I sleep for eight at four hours to get home and do what I need to do to live. That's just not going to happen. I'd rather drive. So there's a lot of, you know, yeah, I want to make the sacrifice, but I also don't want to lose four hours of my life. It's very difficult. So you have to make it efficient if you expect if the government of Ontario expects people to make these sort of plans and, you know, to take public transit, make public transit readily available, make it fast, make it easy to get to work. And really listen to the people. Now, of course, to do another subway stop is like $2 billion per subway stop. So it's almost unattainable in terms of a financial aspect. So there's a light rail system proposed now and people are against it. I don't know much about it. But you know, there you got a lot of people against it, a lot of people for it, but you just never know what's going to happen. And of course, the government of Toronto, the city of Toronto government, the municipal is just getting over the rain of mayor Ford. And we all know he's a little infamous for his crack smoking and drinking on the job and unhealthy living now, you know, rest in peace, but he's gone now due to cancer. But you know, we're still getting over that, but and it's just the inefficiencies that came with it in terms of managing government. And now we're, you know, we're dealing with this light rail versus subways and people are going back and forth and there's studies being made. And then just not people not listening, it's just a mess politically and people are just sick of hearing it about it. And they're just like, no, we're just going to drive. So I think the government has a lot of work to do in terms of proposing smart public transit that will actually address the problems of the people who live in the city, right? But it's very difficult to expect 80% of the residents to use public transit walk or cycle to work when 80% of the of the people, 80% of the population do not live that close to work, especially in Toronto, they have to take the highway to get there. And even then that takes a half hour 45 minutes, you know, some people just live far away from work and they can't cycle or walk. Now is this going to change the way people live in terms they live closer to work or work moves out of the city and moves into a more rural place that will actually allow people to to commute like this? Maybe. I don't know. But they'll have to be a lot of incentives from the government coming in a financial form because to move a business is a lot of money depending on the type of business. So anyway, I wanted to kind of just propose this. I don't want to be negative. I think this is I like the idea of where this is going, where the Ontario government is taking this. However, there is another problem that you probably don't know in establishing some context is the fact that the province of Ontario, the government, the Liberal government that's in power, which is if for the people in the US, liberals are the same thing as Democrats. Okay. And the province of Ontario right now, there's a majority of liberals. And so they make up the government and they can really do whatever they want. And they've they've had a lot of inefficiencies in fiscal management and people are pissed. People are downright pissed. And there was an election and they got voted in again as a majority, but it was only because the other party, the conservatives, which is the same as as the Republicans in the states, they just didn't have the right leader and they just enough to change. So there's a big problem there, right? The government doesn't really have any respect of the people. They've screwed up so many times. And now we're looking into a time where they're trying to propose some some a very radical plan that people are already skeptical about. When I first came out, people like this is ridiculous. How can you tell me how to get to work? You know, how can you tell me to use public transit when the public transit is not really available for them? How can you tell us to walk and cycle when you're not when you don't live close to work? How can you do that? You know, it's very difficult. So I the thing is with this, like I know a lot of people are negative with this plan. I think what this this shows is this government is ready to do something that their plan might have been a little too aggressive at the beginning. However, I do think that this they're in there going in the right direction. And I think we really need to change the way we live in order to change our our output and our footprint on the planet due to climate change. We really need to do that. If we don't, our plan is in trouble. It's already in trouble and it's going to get more in trouble and worse trouble. So we need to we need to really change the way we live. And I think this is a way that we can do this. But there are we need to change a little a little more realistically, make it slow, make it dry. You know, we need to change. But I think the only way a large number of people are going to change is if you make it slow and it's very difficult to do that when the government doesn't have the respect of the people. And I think that's what's happening right now in Ontario. So it's a great plan. However, I think some parts are very unrealistic. I do like the fact that there is a hybrid electric car or zero mission car that they want to put in the multi car driveway. I think that's awesome. I think that's a great plan. Eight years, I can't tell you if it's going to make it in eight years. But I think it's very definitely doable within the next, you know, 10 to 15. So I think that's great. And I think the new generation of people who are going to be purchasing these cars are going to be getting these cars because it makes sense in terms of costs. It makes sense in terms of maintenance and so forth. And of course, the climate, you know, makes sense for the planet. So I want to know what you think. I want to know what you think about this type of plan about governments trying to make drastic reductions in their emissions in order to help the climate change talks that were happened in Paris and the agreement that came out of Paris. But you know, you get a lot of backlash from the people. So I want to know how you guys feel. Do you guys feel that this is just too much? You think it's too aggressive or do you think it's going in the right direction and just the people of Ontario have to deal with it and have to, you know, figure this out as well as other people once governments propose their own emission cutting plans. So I want to know what you think. Let me know in the comments on our show notes. Speak up for blue dot com forward slash session 155. I want to know how you feel about this. I think it'll be I think it'll be a really good conversation topic. So let me know how you feel about the changes. Of course, the link will be in our show notes to this story. And we can discuss it on the on the blog. So do that and thank you very much for listening. You will listen to speaker from Blue Podcast. Happy Friday. Happy conservation. [Music]
