Welcome to the Speaker for Blue Podcast, session 148. Can the ocean really be cleaned up? There are a lot of projects that we're going to talk about or a couple of projects that we're going to talk about today that actually work on cleaning up the ocean from plastic pollution and just marine debris in general, and it's touted as really saving the ocean and being the be all and end all of, you know, plastic pollution and ocean and marine debris. Now today we're going to explore whether that can actually happen or not. We're going to talk about some articles that refute one of those projects and maybe how article, other and other article is taking another project and making it bigger than what it can actually be. So we're going to talk all about that on today, on the ocean, on the Speaker for Blue podcast. Stay tuned. Welcome to the Speak Up for Blue podcast, helping you get involved in ocean conservation. And now here's your host, he just discovered periscope and might be slightly addicted and Drew Lewin. Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the Speaker for Blue podcast, your voice for the ocean. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, founder, speakupforblue.com, marine ecologist and self-proclaimed ocean printer, and today we're going to talk about can the ocean, we're going to explore the idea of whether the ocean can be cleaned up with plastic pollution and marine debris. Now this is something that is kind of interesting, there've been a couple of projects, one especially lately, that have really been coming to the mainstream media where we're actually both of them really have, but one more recently than the other. And as, you know, people are like, hey, this is the thing, this is the thing that's going to help us clean up the ocean for good. And we're going to be okay in the end, because, you know, a lot of people when I talk to them about marine debris and plastic pollution, you know, they said, oh, well, we'll think of something to clean it up. You know, we always do, we always come up with something, we're very innovative people, we're very innovative species, a lot of stuff that we've come up that we've, that we've been innovated about, especially ruined the ocean or the atmosphere in some form or another, but we can come up with ways to clean it, because that's what we do, we're a species that can adapt very well, and we kind of come up and allow us to live the way we want to live, you know, by this different innovation. But that's not always the case, or there are some things that will help us, but not necessarily and all of, you know, what we're looking at with the issue that we're actually focusing on. So today we're going to talk about two projects in particular, and, you know, that have been critical that have come out, and that have been touted as, oh, this is the, this is the thing guys, like we're going to be okay, but we're going to, you know, it's, it's, it's not really the thing that we should be talking, focusing on. I mean, it's, it's a great, you know, if one of them works, that's great. If the other one works, that's awesome. If both of them work, that's even better, but it's not going to, it's not going to be the thing that ends everything. And I'm going to tell you why at the end of this episode, but first before we get into those two projects, we're going to get into why plastic marine debris is a problem. And what's really contributing to that problem? So we're going to do all that today on today's podcast. But before we do, I want to kind of talk about something. I received an email this past week on Sunday from, from an audience member who was not happy with one of my podcasts. And she says, the person says she's been an avid listener of my podcast, which is fantastic. And I thank her for it. She didn't like the way I approached the seafood industry podcast that I put it. I'll put the link in the, in the show notes, which will be speaker for blue.com/session_148. I talked in that, in that episode, I talked about the problems with the seafood industry. I talked about with some of the solutions that people have come up with. And I talked about what I do and what other people can do to, you know, if they want to eat seafood to be better informed. And if they want to, you know, just eat more sustainable things. Now this person didn't like the fact that I said people could still eat, or if they want to eat seafood, they should still eat seafood. They expected me to say, as a true conservationist, they expected me to say that I, you know, that people shouldn't eat seafood at all. The overfishing has just gotten out of hand and we can't manage things properly. And we shouldn't eat seafood at all. And I kind of agree to a certain point with her that, you know, if we really want to solve the problem of overfishing, we shouldn't eat seafood. That will solve it. You know, nobody's going to fish anymore and nobody's going to eat seafood because nobody's eating seafood anymore. So why fish if people aren't going to eat seafood, right? So the whole problem would be solve. The problem is, is more than half the population depend on seafood? If we said, oh, nobody eats seafood anymore, what are they going to feed on? Are they going to feed on farms? On animal stock? Are they all become vegan? The whole world is not going to become vegan or vegetarian because of overfishing. You know, that would be ideal probably, but it's not happening. It's not going to happen. And I find that to say, don't eat seafood is a bit of, you know, is it a bit of an extreme thing to do? We'll solve it if everybody stops eating seafood today. We will probably solve the problem of overfishing. We'll probably have a lot of fish in the sea in 50 years because nobody's going to be fishing. But that's not going to happen. Let's be realistic here, folks. It's not going to happen. You know, you have to change the minds of eight billion people who, you know, seven billion on the way to eight billion people. It's people are going to eat fish. People are going to eat seafood. They need it. They need it to survive, you know, and I think to say stop eating seafood is a bit ridiculous in terms of from a reality perspective. I just don't think it'll happen. So the ways we can, you know, stop eating seafood or we can be better informed and promoting more sustainable ways of fishing would be more appropriate, would be a little bit more realistic, getting people to doing that. You know, I mean, if it's like saying the same thing, if we want to save climate change or we want to solve climate change, everybody stop driving or everybody stop ordering food from around the world. It's not going to happen right away, but we can promote sustainable items and sustainable ways to help people get towards that product that get towards that area, right? We've got the Tesla now coming out and nobody expected Tesla three to go crazy and everybody buy them to the point where like $290,000 people bought or put on and put a deposit down, $1,000 deposit down on a Tesla three because it was more affordable and it was electrical, all electrical car, right? Nobody expected that. Not even Tesla expected that. And what happens? People went out and 290,000 people put $1,000 deposit on this car and are going to wait until 2020, 2020 to get this car because they actually believe this is the way that they want to live. So imagine what that's going to tell other companies forward and GM and all the other companies are going to be like, crap, we got to get an electric car out because this is what's going to sell a fully electric car. It's starting to change the perspective of people. Right by example, if you start to show by example, you can do this kind of stuff. Sylvia Earl will not eat fish. She won't eat fish because she doesn't believe that it can be sustainable. That's her decision. That's great. She leads by example. Fantastic. But there are a lot of people who will eat fish. Now, do we and say Canada, the US, do we need seafood? Well, I'm sure there's a case that says we don't have to have seafood. And to be honest, I rarely have seafood now. I rarely do because I'm so worried that I'm not buying the right thing, even though it's labeled something. There's a mislabeling on food, the supermarkets or the retailers don't understand how important it is to have that same species that they're actually selling to be truthful or know about where the seafood is coming from. There are a lot of problems with the seafood industry. And that was the whole point of my podcast episode, was that there are a lot of problems with the seafood industry. And yes, I said, there are ways that you can be more informed on buying sustainable seafood. And there are fishermen out there who are going towards more sustainable seafood. You know, just last week in the Blav, we talked about a story of a fisherman going from one industry, going from fishing cod in the 1980s, late 1980s, seeing the collapse of cod, going up to the crab industry and the salmon industry over in the Arctic, coming over to Long Island to get into the oyster industry and then seeing Hurricane Sandy bury all that oyster, all of his oyster farm into the ground under 40 feet of mud. And then now he's starting a sustainable ocean practice, a ocean farm where he's doing a lot of diverse shellfish industry, and he's doing marine algae, farming marine algae that can be used for fuel and fertilizers and things like that. So you're seeing a shift in that sustainability, it's actually becoming sustainable, smaller, but more sustainable, and he's making this fisherman is now making a living. You know, so things are getting more sustainable. Things are getting better. It's not everything. And I'm sure that now right now it's a small minority of the industry, but things are getting better because people are demanding better, right? And yes, probably in the Western world, we probably don't need to eat seafood in other places like, you know, developing countries, they probably rely more on seafood because they can't afford the agriculture in the farming, and they can't afford to import all that food like we do, right? So they're out there going more towards fishing. So there are people who need to fish who need to rely on seafood for their primary protein and fatty acids and so forth. It's important for them. So you can't expect everybody around the world to stop eating fish. And that's what, you know, one of the other things, the whole point of the podcast was to say, yes, the seafood industry is screwed up, but it's a lot because we are ignorant to the fact of where our seafood comes from and that if we know where our seafood comes from, we can help demand better seafood, more sustainable practices so that that seafood will be around for longer and that fish population will be around for longer. The oceans will be stable for longer. If we get rid of the greedy bastards who are out there just trying to fish everything till the end of time and demand more sustainable food or demand more sustainable products, it will actually force them to go more sustainable. And if we show it with our wallets, then we can actually do something about it. And that was the whole point. So the person I appreciate the person contacting me and letting me know that, you know, that's what they want it. They wanted to make sure that this is what's going to happen, you know, they want to make sure that they knew their point of view. And that's what the speak up for blue community is all about. However, the fact that, you know, she wrote down some things, shame on me and I should do more research in terms of, you know, how I do my podcast. Well, look, that's that is her opinion on how she feels about eating seafood. And I told people if you want to stop eating seafood, stop eating seafood because the industry is that screwed up or you if you want to eat seafood, you can help make it a better industry by demanding more sustainable things or you abstain from eating seafood, right? You go to a, you go to a restaurant, they don't know where their seafood comes from. You say, I'm sorry, I can't order based on that. You don't know where your seafood comes from. So I'm going to order something else, right? That's how you can do it. You cannot. You can just ignore those people and what they're selling. And that's how you force them to do things. You force them with your wallet. You force them with your buying power. And if enough people do it, you can change the game. So yes, if we all stopped eating seafood, we would, you know, we would, we wouldn't be overfishing. However, that's not going to happen. This is reality people. It's not going to happen. And I appreciate the people who contact me and have a difference of opinion. That's awesome. That's what I want people to do and want people to speak up. That's fine. But there's a way to do it and there's not a way to do it. And that person, the way they ended that email is not the way to do it. Don't tell me I don't do my research. Don't tell me I don't, you know, I should be ashamed of myself because I'm not ashamed myself. I am proud to be a conservationist. And if I eat seafood and still be a conservation, and if I eat sustainable seafood, I'm still a conservationist. All right. And if people, and you can't call people, you can't go out and say you're not a conservationist if you don't agree with what people are doing. You can't. It just doesn't make sense because not everybody can do everything quote unquote right. And if you go out and you label them, they're hypocritical, then they're just going to stop doing what they want, what they're trying to do all in general just to get back of being called hypocritical. You don't want to do that. That's not the way we do conservation. We work with people. We inform people and we do our best. And yes, I have a bit of an audience now and I'm informing them on my, you know, what I think is right based on the science, based on what people are telling me based on my interviews with people and letting people know the difference of different ways you can be a conservationist with the seafood industry. That is my role here. You agree with it. That's fine. You don't agree with it. That's fine too. But there's no need to say I'm hypocritical. I don't. I don't appreciate that. You know, I've dealt with a lot of people who I've had a difference of opinion with, but I don't say they're hypocritical. I don't say they're extremists, you know, things like that. It's just, it doesn't make sense to me to do that, right? We're all in this together. We should all help each other out. Anyway, that's what I just wanted to kind of note, but I'm glad I got feedback from the community. I'm glad, you know, people have the right to their opinion and they can, you know, tell me all they want. I think it's great. Okay. So I appreciate it. Keep emailing me. I want people to email me. I'd love to get involved in conversations and positive conversations, right? Anyway, let's get on with today's episode because it's all about another issue that's a big issue in the world. And that's the plastic pollution slash what I call marine debris problem in the ocean. We live in a soup of plastic pollution, right? The oceans cover more than 70% of our planet. And in all of that ocean, there is a trace of plastic pollution and marine debris, whether it's large marine debris or whether it's tiny micro particles. They are all dangerous to not only the animals that live in the ocean, but to us. And that is a big problem. And it's a problem because it comes, all the plastic pollution and marine debris come from land. Now I did an article a podcast a while ago that there was a study that I believe was the ocean conservancy that came out and said that 80% of the plastic pollution that is in the ocean come from five different countries, and they're all in the continent of Asia. And it really had to do with the way their waste management system was set up. So that means there's a lot of places that don't recycle, there's a lot of places that don't store their waste properly, and what happens is that gets into the ocean. It gets into the ocean, when plastic gets into the ocean, it breaks down with the salt and the waves and the sun, and it breaks down to small, small particles. Those small particles can get into animals. And when they become small like that, a lot of bacteria can grow on the surface area of that particle. Good bacteria and bad bacteria and toxic bacteria. As it breaks down, the toxins come out of the plastic and it just sits on that piece of plastic and then when it gets ingested by an animal, it can really, and there's enough of those micro particles that get just into that animal, it can kill the animal. What happens is those toxins get released into that animal, say it's a smaller fish, that animal gets eaten by a larger fish, that larger fish gets eaten by an even larger fish, and the toxins bioaccumulate in those areas. To the point where there are some animals, some whales who are so full of plastic that they just end up dying because they're so full of plastic. And like I said, it ranges in particle size, it can be micro particles, to large particles, plastic bags, lighters, bottle caps, bottles, plastic bottles, all those things can actually end up in the bellies of whales or orcas or whoever, whatever. And that's what's happened with a lot of our animals is they're getting poisoned by the toxins that are in the plastic because you can't get away from it. The plastic bag turned upside down and the water floating upside down and the water shredded at the bottom looks a lot like a jellyfish. Who likes jellyfish? Turtles do. And they will eat the plastic bag thinking it's a jellyfish, the plastic bag will either get stuck in their throat and they choke and die or it gets into their system that can't pass it through and things get stuck and blocked up and they die. And the seven species of turtles are mostly endangered around the world. So no matter what people are doing to protect them around the world, plastic can still get them. And plastic pollution is considered to kill over 100,000 animals per year. That's not necessarily counting fish, this is counting large animals per year. That's just an estimate. I'm assuming it's underestimated. So we have a big problem in the world, around the world. This is a global problem. And if you look around you, everything that you have, a lot of things you have are made out of plastic because it's cheap. It's made from old petroleum products and they're all petroleum products, so it's easy to make. They last quite a while, they're cheaper to make. They keep coming back to that because for companies and corporations, they're cheaper to make, not necessarily making the price cheaper, but they cause a lot of damage, environmental damage, but they're cheaper to make. So we have a huge, huge problem in our world today. We live in a very wasteful society. We do have recycling programs here in Canada and the U.S. and they're, are considered very good. However, a lot of items only have a certain lifespan to be recycled. Sometimes they can only be recycled once or twice and then they go into the trash with the toxins and the breakdowns and then they end up in the ocean a lot of times. So we have to be careful. We have a big problem. We have to solve it. Now, there are, there have been two projects that have been really touted as the one-only one-by-all of, of projects. And the one, the first one I want to cover today is the Ocean Cleanup Array. Now I didn't know much about the Ocean Cleanup Array for until recently. It was really released in 2014, I believe, and it was by a guy named Boyan Slat at the time. And 19 years old, I think it was 17 year old by the time it came out, I believe. He was an engineering student and he was drawn to the idea of encountering plastic pollution, when he was encountering plastic pollution in the Mediterranean. And he did a TED talk which will, which will, will link to one of our links that cover a critique of, of his, of his project. But Boyan Slat essentially claimed that his design, his invention to clean up plastic pollution could clean up the North Pacific sub-tropical gyre of plastic in 10 years. That's pretty good, right? That's pretty good. And when he, when he came out with that claim that TED talk came out, it got a lot of publicity. And then, you know, it said this is the be all and end all the plastic in the ocean, but the problem was it doesn't really work or it wouldn't really work. The plans wouldn't really work. And there was, you know, before the feasibility study was released in June 3rd, on June 3rd, 2014, a bunch of scientists came out and critiqued the idea based on the current plans. And there's a great review on our friends over at deepseenews.com. And I'll put the link into the show notes, www.speakupforblue.com/session147. And you're going to see what that, they're going to see what that critique is based on the feasibility study that was released. So they critiqued it. These seniors critiqued it before the feasibility study, then, then Boyin found out about the critique and about other critiques from other scientists and he came up with the feasibility study saying that, you know, this is what we're really doing. This is the whole design. He came up with all this environmental impact, assessment and all that kind of stuff. And so, deepseenews, after that, came out with a more in-depth, you know, critique about this that was less impersonal and more formal. Their first one, they even admit themselves, was a bit of a lighthearted review, you know, but it was pointing out serious technical concerns that they had about the project. Now, the fact that this, I should say, the fact that this person, Boyin/came out with this project, especially at the age of either 17 or 19, whatever age he was, he was obviously very young, teenager, it's fantastic because it just goes to show the ingenuity that people want to help and people want to clean up the ocean. It's a great place to start. How do you, you know, where do you clean up the ocean? How do you clean it up? And of course, you think the ocean is massive and this subtropical gyre is huge. And the amount of plastics is just amazingly large. And you know, the fact that a 17-year-old 19-year-old came out and said, "Hey, you know that I'm going to clean up the ocean. I'm going to come up with a design that's going to clean up the ocean." That's awesome, you know. But you know, the fact that everybody kind of comes in, all these scientists came in and critiqued it. A lot of people can look at the scientists and be like, "Oh, well, you know, they don't like it. They don't like the fact that he's got the limelight and all this kind of stuff." But you know, you got to remember, science is based on criticism. And it's not without criticism that we don't get better, right? If you don't have criticism, we're not going to get better. So like all the peer-reviewed literature that's considered like the best in the world is because it's been critiqued so well. You know, and people, some, a lot of times when people send in journals and send in papers to be written or published in journals, they get critiqued and have to rewrite it or rewrite parts of it or explain more in certain areas and less than others. And it's a big process and it's an important process in the scientific process. You know? And so the fact that that deep-seen news and other scientists kind of came out with this technical review is amazing. I'm going to link to it in the show notes, SpeakUpForBlue.com/session147, and you can take a look. Some of the highlights of this was, I'm going to read you some of those highlights. There's about a dozen of them. They say the pilot study, the plastic pollution upon which the array design is based on was inadequate to obtain a depth profile of the ocean plastic, meaning like how deep does the ocean plastic go? The preliminary testing and analysis of the prototype boom, because it's a boom system, is incomplete and does not validate the capture and concentration potential of a floating barrier with a skirt depth of three meters, and it gives you the page number. The modeling study severely underestimate potential loads and tensions on the moored array and boom, therefore they are insufficient to properly design a mooring concept and estimate potential cost. No workable solution for biofouling is suggested. Biofouling is essentially when you have an instrument in the ocean or anywhere in any kind of system or aquatic system, you get biofouling, which is essentially, organisms will settle on there and it kind of gets gunked up or gunked up with either algae or whatever it is, whatever animal decides to settle on there, and that can seriously hinder the performance of the instrument. That's what they're saying. There's really no solution for biofouling, and that could just be the fact that this person who's involved, boy and slut, may not be accustomed to working in the ocean. I'm not sure. Then they came up with another one. Since the authors had to access the to orchoflex, a professional software package to design offshore marine structures, a full-scale mooring array could have been modeled into the estimate loads and tensions for a moored array, but was not. Then with structural deformation of the array and loss of functionality by ocean currents are not addressed. So it goes on and on and on. One of the things that I wanted to talk about is one of the points was many of the attacks that discussed in Chapter 6, the environmental impacts, do not actually inhabit in the North Pacific Subtropical Gyre. No serious attempt is made to assess effects on the taxa most likely to be impacted. So now this boom system that this person has come up with essentially grabs pollution out of the ocean, but how does it do that? It has to suck up something or it has to bring something into those booms. Something has to get sucked in. So how does that work when other organisms are there? Because this is the ocean, this is not just plastic, it's species as well. So how does it incorporate any impacts to the ocean? So a lot of places that draw water, a lot of corporations or industries that draw water from an aquatic body, whether it be the ocean or fresh water, will have an impact on what larva or fish that can get sucked into this filter or this system. Because it's a big suction, because it's sucking in so much water, a lot of times to cool their fans or to cool their machinery inside. And so they have to do environmental impacts assessment on what they're going to be sucking in. So they have to come up with a list of species and taxa that can be affected by this suction. Well, it seems from this critique that a lot of the species that were mentioned, a lot of the taxa that were mentioned, don't even live in the North Pacific sub-tropical gyre in that area. So you wonder, and I used to be a consultant, if you looked at an area, you had to actually look at that area and say, this is the area that we're talking about and these are the species that are found in that area or the taxa that are found in that area. It doesn't seem like if you just put any taxa down or all the taxa down, you're not really putting the effort into saying, okay, no, it's just these taxa, that's what we need to look at. So when you put taxa that don't actually live there, it's almost like, well, maybe this person is not really putting that full attention on there. And that's what this critique is trying to make. So there were a lot of things, I guess, that this pilot study or this feasibility study didn't cover that the authors at deep scene news thought that, you know, hey, you should have done something. So I'm going to link to that in our show notes, speak up for blue.com/session147 and you're going to take a look at it. There's two parts. There's the part one and part two. Part one is more of what organizations are doing, something about plastic pollution, which I think is great and marine debris. And then the part two is the actual technical critique of the feasibility study. Now this was posted in 2014 when the feasibility study came out and I think it was very well written and I refer to people at all the time on this project because you see the articles keep popping up saying this is the, we're able to, this person has solved plastic pollution when he was 17. And it's not necessarily true because first of all, the device hasn't even been built and nothing's happened on the project. So I don't know what's, what's the hold up, I don't know if they're going to continue to do it, but it's a, you know, plastic pollution is still a big problem and nothing has happened on this front and a lot of people have critiqued saying basically it's not going to work. So that's something to look out for. The other project, I'm a little bit more, I guess I'm a little bit more positive about right? I'm a little bit more hopeful about it's called the CBIN and it just kind of came out. It was done on, there was this, these two Australians came up with this, this invention called the CBIN and essentially what happens is this, this bin that they put in marinas that floats in the water and there's a suction, there's a pump that sucks water into it and then what happens is sucks when it as it sucks water into it, the, the floating debris that is floating in the water just kind of comes over the CBIN and it comes into it and you've probably seen a lot of videos if you're into the ocean, you've probably seen a lot of videos that are on your Facebook feed or you've seen it on YouTube or you've seen anything. It's, it's, it's gotten a lot of publicity and the, the, the makers, the founders launched an indiegogo campaign which received 113% of its funding. This just this past January, you know, and they say that there's a lot of manufacturing and interest and the plan on releasing the CBIN for mid to late 2016. So it's coming soon. They went, the, the people, the founders also say they went to a big trade show in Australia called Medstrad, Medstrad or Medstrad, I guess, Medstrad, which is the biggest trade show in the world from the marine industry. From that, this is a quote from that we found a few people that wanted to help us with the manufacturing also have been in contact with us with lots of mariners and governments around the world. Now, when you see the video, this play, this, this, this CBIN is put in marinas where you probably see a lot of debris coming from boats, whether they, whether people throw it overboard or things, you know, plastic cups or cups and, and all this other kind of stuff kind of fly off from the wind and, and things like that. And you see it in marinas. And I think they're great because they're small container and they're great for marinas and maybe coastal areas that can actually have power that can actually have a pump because it requires a pump to suck the water in. And I think it's a great thing, it's a small bin, so it can probably fill up pretty fast. But it's, I think it's a fun idea. They say the, the, the founders say not only does it create the fact that it takes trash out of the water, but it can create an educational tool because when people see this, you know, they wonder what it is. So at marinas, they can, it's a, it's a great educational tool that they can put into place. And I think it's, I think it's fantastic. But will, like this article says that it was, it's going to, I think the article is titled, new inventions even been could save our oceans. Maybe partially save could help save our oceans would be a good idea. But to save our oceans outright, no, you can't, you can't just say that. And, and, you know, the people understand that the people in these founders understand that it's not the be all and end all, but it can help, you know, save in certain spots and certain hotspots for where debris comes out of. You know, there, there are a lot of other things in the deep scene news article. They actually mentioned this wheel that's used in North Carolina where it actually filters out stuff that's coming out of these, maybe out of a watershed or a river system or out of a stormwater drain and it actually filters out the, the plastics and puts them in a bin and it goes. That's what this thing can do as well. If you put them in specific strategic spots, but you're not going to put them in the middle of the ocean and it's just going to suck out all the pollution. It could prevent a lot of things from getting into the ocean as it comes into marinas or maybe as it comes out of stormwater drains or stormwater discharges and things like that. So it could help. I just don't think it's going to help everything and I think the authors are saying that as well. The one thing it does benefit and here's another quote from them, it's, it's, there's not only the ocean pollution side, but it's for the broader environment and then extending that through marinas into education for local communities as well, so that one day we can drive towards a cleaner environment for everyone that's using the water. So in other words, we educate people on the fact that yes, we have a plastic pollution problem, but no, we don't, you know, the way of solving is to stop putting plastic pollution and marine debris in the ocean and that's from us. That's from land. That's from human beings. We need to stop. We need to prevent putting stuff in there. And I think yes, that is the catalyst of the seaben is to get the education out there. It's another form of getting the, the, the message of, you know, preventing plastic pollution from getting into the ocean and that is a great, fantastic message. So I applaud these two guys and I even applaud, you know, boy, it's a lot for coming up with ideas to try and clean up the ocean and coming up with ideas to start the conversation about plastic pollution. Even if last project may not work or may not ever get built, the fact that people are talking about plastic pollution that is a problem, that's the focus. It starts with us. It starts with me and you at home to try and reduce your plastic use, try and use more sustainable products or use more reusable products because that is where the problem is happening. And if you start with the major stuff, you start with the obvious stuff and then work towards a little more specific things like buying products that don't have any plastic in them at all or any, you know, buying, you know, avoiding buying things with huge packaging that's not necessary and things like that, you get to a better place. You know, you get to a closer and closer place of getting to become a, you know, a more efficient environment and more efficient species on the, on the resources that we use. So that's what really comes down to is my advice to you guys where we go from here is stop using stupid, like, not stupid, but things that don't make sense for plastic wise, plastic water bottles. You don't need plastic water bottles. If you travel everywhere with a reusable water bottle and fill it up with, if you're especially if you're in a west, a developed country, you know, I always say western country because I'm in the west, but, you know, I'm in Canada, most areas, almost all areas in Canada have really good tap water, you know, and, and you can use that tap water. You know, you don't need to use bottled water. The bottled water is either the same or even worse than what our tap water is. So walk around with bottled water or walk around with a, with a, with a, with a reusable bottle of water and keep it in your car, you know, and bring it around whether it's glass, whether it's made from like aluminum, or, you know, one of those big tough, you know, tough ones, just carry it around with you wherever you go, leave one in your car in case you like, like, there's times where I go, I bring one when I go visit my parents in Toronto. It's about an hour's drive. And then so when I'm on my back and I, and I know I'm going to get thirsty, I just go and I fill up my water bottle and from their tap, put some ice in it, nice and cold, bring it back, put it in my car, and then I'm drinking on the way home instead of saying, Oh, why don't you take a bottle of water? I don't need it. And the plastic is just stupid to use. So I shouldn't say stupid. It's just not sustainable to use. You know, so I think it's important that we, we get to that point where we realize what's happening with our oceans. We realize that there's a lot of plastic pollution going in and we start using more sustainable product. You know, I'm not saying go out and buy the most, you know, the most expensive thing in the world, but start changing slowly to get to a more sustainable practice. I know change takes time and it takes a little bit of education. That's why you come and listen to this podcast and we change through time and over time and we say, okay, now I've got a reusable water bottle. What's next? Okay. Well, let's look at my lunch that I bring to work. You know, what am I bringing? Am I bringing everything in a plastic bag? Okay. Maybe I'll go and I'll buy a cooler. You know, a small lunch cooler bag and then I bring that every day instead of a plastic bag that I can throw out that doesn't, that just goes in the garbage ends up in a water way. You know, it's not recyclable, it's not reusable. You know, and it's, it's kind of go through that process and change slowly and slowly. And then one, all of a sudden you're like, Hey man, my, like, my day is pretty sustainable from a plastic pollution perspective and it will work. I promise you, it'll work. So that's the kind of thought process that I want to get people in, you know, and I want to get this audience in because that's the thought process that I've gone through over the past, you know, 15 years, you know, 20 years, it's, it's coming from like, I used to go to, when I went to high school, you know, my parents would send me with lunch with, with plastic bag all the time, different plastic bag and I throw it out, not even thinking anything of it. And then when I got to university, I found out about this plastic pollution problem. And I was like, holy cow, what have I been doing? You know, so you slowly change all my bags that I use, anything where I carry something I need to put a bag in groceries is a reasonable bag. Went out, my wife and I went out and bought a reasonable bag. And we tell our kids about a reasonable bags and how it helps the environment. And now they're all about reasonable bags and they, they make, they hold you accountable. When you tell a kid something about the environment that could hurt the environment, man, they will hold you accountable, they'll make sure you don't come home with the plastic bag. You know, it's pretty good. It's, it's, it's a pretty cool thing to see. So that's, you know, that's what I mean is like, it's, you get that thought process, that thought process transfers from generation to generation and it gets better and better and more efficient as we go along. So anyway, that's the show for today. I wanted to talk about these ocean cleanup projects and, and when I think of them, but again, from a positive perspective is people are trying to come up with inventions to, to clean up the ocean. And that's great. But the real effort should be in preventing pollution and marine debris from getting into the ocean in the first place. That is the big thing. That is the stuff that we have problems with, you know, and even though 80% of the plastic pollution that goes into the world is from five different countries and it's not Canada or the US, which is most of this audience or the UK, it's mostly in Asian countries. It doesn't mean that we can't do anything about it or that we can't better ourselves to make sure that doesn't get into it. You know, also the fact that from, from another perspective is that because plastic is made from petroleum products, the fact that you don't use plastic anymore, really reduces climate change impacts by lowering emissions. So that helps too, it's best bang for your buck. So anyway, that's the show for today. I hope you enjoyed it. Please send me your comments, if you want to email it to me or if you want to put a comment on our show notes, speakupforblue.com/session147, or sorry, 148, I'm sorry, please do, please send me comments. If you want to send me an email, you can go to the contact page, I will get it, I will respond to it as much as fast as possible. But yeah, this is what we're doing. We're trying to stir up the conversation and whether you agree with me or not, that's fine. I still appreciate your emails, of course, be courteous and try not to call names. But I think it's great. I think it's great that we're getting comments and we're, you know, we're engaging with our community. I think that's the whole point. And as long as we do it in a positive light, I think it'll be great. So thank you very much for listening. You have been listening to speakup for the podcast, I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. Happy Wednesday, and we're hopefully going to see you for another Ocean Talk Friday this week. But happy conservation. See you later. in the next one.
