How To Protect The Ocean
SUFB 055: Ocean Talk Friday Marine Protected Areas and GMO Salmon
On today's Ocean Talk Friday, we are talking about Marine Protected Areas and the need for different science (social and economic science), the need for more fishing exclusion protected areas, and the FDA approval for Genetically Modified Salmon.
Shop for the Ocean:
http://www.speakupforblue.com/shop
10 Ocean Tips to Conserve the Ocean:
http://www.speakupforblue.com/wordpress/sufb_optinpdf
Show Notes:
http://www.speakupforblue.com/session55
Welcome to the Speak up for Blue podcast session 55. It's Friday again. This is my favorite day It's Ocean Talk Friday and according to the downloads. It's your favorite day today, too We're gonna be talking about some GMO fish that we might be eating in the future And we're gonna talk about three articles that are related to marine protected areas and marine conservation in a whole Stay tuned for Speak up for Blue Ocean Talk Friday Welcome to the Speak up for Blue podcast helping you get involved in ocean conservation and now here's your host He just discovered periscope and might be slightly addicted and drew Luan Hey everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the Speak up for Blue podcast your voice for the ocean I am your host Andrew Luan founder speak up for blue.com Marine ecologist and self-proclaimed ocean printer and I am joined with our Recurring co-host Nathan Johnson Nathan. How you doing today? I'm doing pretty well. How are you doing good good? We were just talking before we started recording this episode that this is pretty much one of our favorite things to do is is you know seek out some some of the best or some of the most Popular stories that we've seen around on the web today or the web this week and just talk about give our opinions on it Because that's what conservation is all about especially when it comes to the public eye We need to talk about these things and get more involved And actually that's one of the lessons in one of the articles that we're gonna talk about today is getting the marine communication out to the public so this is our effort to talk to you guys about marine conservation and not necessarily about all the Statistics and the scientific stuff that people tend to just kind of glaze over like my wife does when I talk to her about science But you know we talk about you know We just talk about the main points and what we need to do and how we need to solve the issues and and so forth So I think it's gonna be a great day today because we got a lot of you know one controversial You know story that we're gonna touch upon first But the other three have to do with just marine conservation in a hole and what we need to do to manage Oceans which is what I talked about yesterday on the podcast if you haven't seen it just go just Speak up for blue dot com slash Justin 54 and Nathan wrote a nice blog post on that But today we're gonna talk about all these different things. It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be wonderful, but before we do I Just wanted to announce that our shop is open our speak up for blue online Store is open for you guys to support ocean conservation and you're probably wondering well, how can that happen? Well, it's really really easy. All you have to do is just go on to speak up for blue dot com Ford slash shop and you can shop your heart away on Different t-shirts. We have travel mugs. We have at-home mugs. We have iPhone cases that have different Awareness things ocean issue awareness things on it and it really starts a conversation So once you buy those and you wear it or you use those items Then you start a great conversation in the public people have come up to me the shirt that I'm wearing right now I'm not sure if you can see it, but keep calm conserve the ocean You you know, it's actually started a couple conversations in public with some young children that are kind of saying Hey, that's I really like your shirt. What it's all about with some adults. It's like hey What are you wearing this for? Is this a specific organization and I tell them about speak up for blue and what I'm trying to do and they love it And it just really opens up people's minds when they see shirts like these So you can do that by raising awareness once you buy those shirts and you start wearing them or you use one of the items But you can also help support a great organization. It's one of our partners. It's called the organization is called sea turtles forever And essentially, it's a charitable nonprofit organization that does great work in protecting sea sea turtles down in Central America They also have an innovative tool that helps clean up microplastics from beaches, which is fantastic So what we're going to do is we're really going to help by buying this these items We're really going to help support them financially also speak up for blue is working on helping them Support them in their projects logistically, which is going to be a lot of fun I can't wait to do that get back into ocean conservation and Nathan is going to help when he can because he's we're both Very very busy people but we're hoping to help more and more as we go along But anyway, that's it for that go on to the online shop speak up for blue calm fort slash shop And you can help protect the ocean just through just through buying some items pretty simple What do you think Nathan? Pretty simple pretty simple Right on right on okay, so let's get on to the show the first the first Article we're going to be talking about and I know this is controversial because a lot of people don't like genetically modified foods the people freak out a bit on the internet when they hear about it I'm wishy washy on the subject I don't know if it's great or if it's not but anyway I'll go through the article very briefly and just tell you is about the FDA the federal Drug and there's no food and drug administration has actually I'm not I'm not American So I don't know all these these acronyms from the states the food and drug administration have actually approved a company called I believe it's aqua bounty to go ahead and start creating and developing genetically modified salmon Atlantic salmon, I believe is what it is No jeans from Chinook salmon and an eel like and put it and they've been putting him in an ocean pout, but essentially And they've been putting an Atlantic salmon, so they are going to be producing Atlantic salmon So essentially what the what the FDA has said is that you can go ahead and you can start producing So most of the food that we're going to be eating that salmon that's the land that we buy as Atlantic salmon could be genetically modified You know, is this is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing Nathan? What do you think I? Think it's overall a good thing I would the only reason I say overall is because I just don't know enough about how these salmon You know how they compare it to just biological salmon I think there's definitely very valid concerns anytime you're genetically modified food Coming out especially something that's biological, so I think it's I think it's overall Good and the article that I read about, you know, why they decided to say it was okay to eat and why they're going forward with it It seems like they've taken I think Aqua advantages name the company. They've taken all the steps Really necessary to make sure that it doesn't cause any ecological disruptions And that it's safe to eat and it's It's been in the process for about 20 years So you kind of think that they've probably thoroughly vetted everything they can about the salmon before they've given it the Okay, so, you know, I think it's a good sign. I think it's going to help a lot of You know lower-income or nations that can't always afford to just get wild caught salmon You know, salmon is a huge source of protein for a lot of coastal communities and so I think you know, it does have some very Sociological and economic benefits for it I would have to read more to figure out, you know, if I'm a hundred percent okay with it But right now I'd say I'd say 90 if someone put it on a plate in front of me I would eat it and be okay Well, I think that the big thing too is if somebody put it in front of your plate is you wouldn't know the difference Right. I mean, we've had there have been lots of there have been a lot of problems just in fish markets in general In the past is kind of off topic, but in the past where oceana did a study where they found that The the items that were being sold as something like tuna or other species that are very popular We're not actually genetically. We're not actually tuna. They were being disguised as something else and and it wasn't necessarily the fish markets that That knew about it. It was the fact that they were being sold Um, you know things that I'm probably already filleted or cut out and they didn't realize the meat So you got a problem with that in terms of you don't understand that but that's a different problem for a different time Although it's semi-related to this The thing is when you read the article everything seems great. Everything seems like it You know the company has really followed protocols. They they they followed everything There's a couple of things with fish farming because this is what this is. They're going to create these fish farms to create these these genetically modified organisms The general thing with salmon is There's a closed system and there's an open system when they're young they're in a closed system when they're just born Then they put them into these these what they call open pens and essentially it's these big nets that are in the ocean And they're essentially fed and they're kept and they're grown in full Light, you know and they're basically in in to adult size Now the problem with that is you get escapees But the nets which is bound to happen and it has happened and then of course you get you're in one area and you're feeding all these fish the the the Fecal matter goes down Onto the bottom and it and it can have problems with the ocean on the bottom So those are sort of the common issues with fish farming This however seems that this is always going to be a closed system and the barriers They're going to create these barriers so that they ensure that this is what they say that they ensure that these barriers will never be lifted or never Pause the problem for escapees into into the wild so that these genetically modified organisms will mix with wild population Which is the big I think one of the big worries the big concerns about genetically modified organisms that they Mix with the wild population then you eventually they all become genetically modified and we don't have a You know quote-unquote wild population anymore that it's natural. It's always genetically modified So where they're worried about you know, that's that's a big worry that i'm sure a lot of people are worried about But it seems if this system remains closed and it can be done I don't have a problem with that as long as those barriers never falter I have a problem with that because you know, is the maintenance going to be regulated? Is it going to be monitored all that kind of stuff? I'm not too sure the other thing that's interesting too is you have these geneticists who work on these problems all the time Are genetically modified foods and they saying they're absolutely identical genetically Um, so that that is going to be kind of interesting to see are we even going to be able to tell the difference Um, and you know, they've had health studies going on for a while and obviously no significant effects What is significant mean of course and this is how I read it as a scientist I'm I always questioning it and I haven't read the actual papers on it the actual scientific papers So please remember as I question these things. This is why you know, I'm questioning it based I don't have the scientific background or the scientific papers in front of me I have a scientific background to make to make a conclusion from the papers or agree or disagree with the papers But I'm always worried about this kind of thing However, it seems to be heavily regulated and seems that they're going through the proper steps Just like you said Nathan and right now it seems okay Uh, you know, it seems like it's going to be fine and and speaking to your point about that. I think Um, you know genetically modified anything gets a really bad reputation. Yeah, usually Um, so you know, I I very much trust that the people Their homework and that You know, this is very very much okay and go into your point about making sure her doesn't Uh, basically get into the natural ecosystem that stays contained Um, a couple things that I read that were really interesting is the plate the area that they locate the pens Apparently makes it very difficult for them to swim out and find any other salmon that they could potentially spawn with Um, so even if they do all of the fish have been modified to be sterile. So instead of having diploid Um, chromosomes, they would have triploid which makes the juveniles or the eggs die right away So even if they found a fish, you know, they couldn't reproduce Um, and all the genetically modified fish are female. So that makes it even more difficult Um, so it seems like they very much put a backup plan for a backup plan for a backup plan, which which is good Which is absolutely absolutely I think it's great and I think there are there are many benefits I mean one we have a like a worldwide growing population that is you know Eventually we don't we tend not to talk about it, but eventually we're going to have some food shortages We're going to have some water shortages. I'm not I don't know when it's going to be a long time from now But it's going to happen eventually if we just keep if our population just keeps growing as a world a world population So these you know gmo's is really the the major backing behind him is we're we really need to feed a population You know of healthy food. So if these gmo's are healthy and they're found to be healthy Out or or you know there these and that's what these are found like in this in the article. It says that these There's no there aren't any chemicals in it. There aren't anything that can be there's anything in it that can be bad In terms of the process. I don't know but in the actual animals. There's nothing Right now that says that there's anything bad about it So, you know, that's something we have to think about the other thing is is we have a wild population that is just keeps decreasing because salmon is a very popular Food, you know when we when you go to a restaurant and a seafood restaurant There is a lot of different dishes of salmon. So we have to be careful of that We have to really watch that those salmon stocks. So this could be a way of finding an alternative And especially if it's done well, then okay, you know I don't know if you'd notice a difference in taste or if you'd notice a difference in health in terms of the actual product So we'll have to see we'll have to really wait and see and i'm sure it'll be closely followed And we'll we'll we'll closely follow this because i'd like to hear more about it But this was a huge story this week And i'm sure a lot of people are going to have some problems with it because everybody wants there's food to be natural However, we also live in a society that our population is growing like out of control So eventually there's not going to be enough natural food and we're going to have to eat these gmo's And we're probably already eating many of them that we just don't know about Um, that was my my conspiracy theory of the day. So Anyway, let's move on to the next story This one here is from mongoebay.com Nathan, why don't you give us a brief intro to this one? So About a month ago the the story covers an article that was published in science magazine That i believe was in the october 15th issue and it's written by jane luchanko who was the The former administrator of noah down here and now she's over at Oregon state and one of her colleagues wrote a paper basically detailing the current state of marine protected areas um and Ways to increase that ways to better manage these protected areas ways to get people more involved and And just kind of stress the need for the importance of these So just i mentioned a few facts when we talked about marine protected areas a lot, but they again It's about three three and a half percent of the ocean is protected compared to about 15 percent of land So we're we're very much lagging behind in that regard And the study looked at three different types of marine protected areas as far as how they restrict fishing specifically so You can have um low protected areas, which pretty much allow commercial fishing um sort of middle ground protected areas that allow non commercial fishing but don't allow commercial and then fully protected that ban fishing altogether and Um, I mean it's not a surprise the study said that you know banning fishing is the most beneficial You're going to get the most biomass increase in abundance. That's not really surprising No, but the the authors put it in a really interesting way to kind of hit home in that um So in the article says for kind of to convey these differences for instance a 40 centimeter long coral trout Uh in an area that fully bans fishing can grow to 60 centimeters And so fecundity in these fish really is determined by their size So that means instead of having about 350 000 eggs each spawning occasion. You have three million So I think that's kind of just a good way of approaching these things really If you put it in large terms like a 10 percent increase in a biomass over 10 years That's very true and some people might understand that and recognize its importance But sometimes you really just have to get down to specific information of how is this directly going to impact and benefit the population. So um I mean, I think one of the things Dr. Luchenko is really good at in her from her experience with noa is really conveying science in a Publicly accessible way and in an interesting way Um, so, you know, I think that's kind of the main thing for this article that I found really fascinating. I don't think it made any Um, you know, eureka moments We've known for a while that we need more marine protected areas And we've known that banning fishing is probably one of the best things you can do in a marine protected area But yep, the more studies we have about this kind of in this kind of issue in the the more ways We can try and address policymakers economists fishermen People who just live on the coast. I think the better off will be. Yeah, no, I agree and we're gonna get into this You know, there's we're gonna get this in the next story, but there's really when they talk about the three different You know enforcement rules or levels of marine protected areas, you know, you look at there's a lot of Areas that are Called marine protected areas, but they're really what we call quote unquote paper parks where there's really no enforcement There's really no real big Rules or or exclusions and of course you see those ones that are just they just don't Follow through on their goals and I think we have to be careful that we you know, we tend to Designate a lot of paper parks because of this so it's not one that you want to do you want to make sure that you know, you You enforce and you make sure that you set the proper levels of course like you said nathan You put strict no commercial fishing or no fishing at all You're going to get a benefit and there's going to be a spillover effect. It just happens. It's what happens There's a lot of things that go into that. It's not just as easy as saying. Okay, we're going to take this this area here and we're going to Designate this as a commercial a non commercial a non recreational exclusion fishing Right, so it's you know, and then all of a sudden it you boom and a week you get all these fish No, it takes time and it takes a you know, you get it you have to have inclusion from all the stakeholders all the fishermen have to say hey Okay, we're going to leave this area Oh alone and then we're going to fish over here because we're going to get this big spillover effect um What I think is good too, but this article is that we're seeing that there is an increase in designation of marine protected areas around the world Um, and I have to boast right now Canada just had a switch in government and we've done a podcast on it and they've promised to protect 20% of their Fishing of their marine protect or their marine areas in their e zone Um by 20% by 2020 that's huge or 10% by 22. Sorry, 10% by 2020. That's huge That's that's a massive thing. And that's going to contribute because we have a lot We have three coasts with the longest coastline in the world, you know So for from a as a Canadian perspective, I'm very proud in the marine biologist perspective I'm very proud to say that we're finally getting back on that area Which is going to be great And we're seeing that increase we're seeing more and more countries start designating Their areas when you started to get those larger countries really producing 10% you're going to see That gap between land and ocean protected areas kind of close, which will be great But there is a you know an advantage for land is we get to see everything You know, we get to see all these things we can visit those parks easily You know, you see africa has a lot of parks that are protected and they have these safaris and ecotourism and everything We see the animals that are being protected It's hard to see ocean animals being protected because they're under the water not many people get Access to that unless you're a scuba diver or you're on the the water all the time So it's difficult to get public support because people just don't know What they're seeing and that's where it comes in where we come in and you know scientists other scientists come in where we're trying to Communicate what's underneath the waters what needs to be protected? Why it needs to be protected? So I think there's a bit of a disadvantage there plus everything that's being protected on land is usually under some sort of Jurisdiction, you know where ocean, you know once you get out of that economic zone with the two the way I think it's the 200 Nautical mile mark You're getting into the what they call high seas and where there's no real enforcement. There's no real jurisdiction Um, which means there's no real enforcement because nobody really has jurisdiction over it. So It gets it gets to be more and more difficult and considering You know the ocean takes up 71 percent of of the earth And you know 15 percent of that is going to be a lot of area A lot of this is going to be in the high seas and it has to be but who's going to enforce it Yeah, we're going to really see how that works, but that's that's how I feel about about that one Um, do you have anything more to say on this on this story? Yeah, it's I mean, it's just more difficult when you go to The ocean for protection. I mean for a variety of reasons Like you said, I don't think we can forget about how people are just going to care more about stuff that they can see and that they can experience So, um, you know a few people go out diving in some of these marine protected areas and A lot of marine protected areas try and encourage that You know, they'll try and bring some eco tourism out there on boat trips or whatever and that's great But um, you know, it's it's just still so much easier to go to national parks to even enforce these areas because like you said They're under a set jurisdiction. They have hard limits for boundaries and everything so you know exactly what area you're managing So there there are definitely disadvantages. I mean, I don't think it's surprising That we protect less of the ocean than we do Of land. It's just, you know, it's getting to the point where we need to start doing something about it Yeah, no, I completely I completely agree and and that's and we're seeing that I think the more people see on social media and in there and in on their tv and just in in their face About the videos that divers are taking and sharing and it's becoming easier to do that I think people realize how important conservation is. I mean, I don't know I I probably see about at least 10 videos per week on Some sort of animal being saved from a ghost net, you know being entangled in some kind of fishing net and a diver or somebody Sort of releasing them from that dive net and it's a feel great story But it's a reality that people get to see now and they can help save it now by by putting that public support Now it's just a matter of directing them to the right organization or the right sort of petition or the right Way to say hey, where can I offer my public support for protected areas that we can get rid of this stuff? Um, I think that's an important, you know important thing to do. So anyway, let's move on to the next story This story is relate definitely related, but it looks at not just marine protected areas. It looks like it looks at just effective science based Ocean conservation. It's and it's actually a an article in national geographic that was posted by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson who worked for the wait institute Um, and she just gives us six lessons that she's learned as a scientist. She's a PhD scientist um just in terms of the work that she's seen everything she's seen and how Conservation can get support. I'm going to go through quickly what these six are So the first one is it's not about what you want and what that means is and i've I've talked about this in the podcast before It essentially means that when somebody goes in Into a foreign country a scientist goes into a foreign country. It's important that it's not just about the scientists Views and what needs to be done and what the results they want to get it's important to benefit that Country or that study area that you're going into so sharing information enhancing local capacity Building long-term relationships and aligning the same priorities You know, we've talked about that before and it's very it's rear reiterated very well here The other two is don't forget about the social sciences. We often think that when we're doing marine protected areas We have to do science. It's all about the science. It's not just about the science We have to put in social scientists because you're not man. She she Ayana does a really good job She says it's not about managing the fish the fish are going to be fine without us They do really well. It's about managing human behavior around the fish and that's really important that kind of encapsulates social sciences and then She talks about we got to include the economy in there. We got to include economic values in there So because that's what really all about too is people You know react to money and then it's also keep it simple stay away from the fancy math and mathematical models The big scientific expeditions the observation satellites and just put in some small Goals that we can actually do really well and she and she has an example here You know, she documented a simple solution for the problem that fish traps were catching a lot of Lots of small fish. No one wanted to eat. So it was a bypass. They're just being disregarded She put in a rectangular slot in the corner made you know a dollar worth of rebar Metal rebar and juvenile's narrow-body species can escape allow them to survive while the targeted groupers and snappers were staying so And they you know, it's a really easy thing to do It was really cheap keep it simple and that's what people want to see. They want to see results The fifth one, uh, it's not just about protected areas And I think this is really important because we've been talking about marine protected areas I specialize in marine protected areas, but it's really About including everything, you know, it's it's it's there's a broader diversity of both natural and social science and we need to Fuse those two together in terms of an interdisciplinary science look at the social and the natural values And then we got what we do here and Nathan you and I we're telling people about the science, you know It's effective communication that's really easy to understand that people can get into and get involved with so they can really inform themselves So this was a great article and and the weight institute is just putting on this blue halo initiative that You know, the the description has written really well here It seeks to embody the philosophy of the best role for science with ocean conservation So it's got they've got some work in carousel And and I forget the other place in in the Caribbean But they just launched a new project in carousel and they've actually been on periscope Which is an app that does live streaming So if you check them out at the weight institute or weight foundation one of the two You can actually tune into their pot their their periscopes They just did one yesterday introducing the crew and carousel and looking at the house that they're living in and and so forth So I know what this was a long intro and we even talked about it before we're going to do some small intro But this I thought I'd go through the six lessons and we'll post The the links in the blog post but Nathan, what are your thoughts on this? I think they made a few really good points Just just with those six and one of them is the The so the economic argument for a lot of this It's very much a long term. Everything will be fine and better There will be more fish more revenue from fishing But short term is going to be a drop because you have to stop fishing for you know, 10 years or whatever And they mentioned that that's usually impacting the people who can afford it the least So the fishermen who are the ones who actually have to stop fishing They're the ones who kind of need the money more than you know, a state government or an organization that's managing it so You know, they didn't offer a solution. I don't have a solution to that But I think that's a really good thing to keep in mind is that you know, and and I think we're guilty of this too saying Oh, just stop fishing for 10 years. It'll be worth it in the long run It's easy for us to say that because we don't rely on fishing for our income But I think that's definitely something to keep in mind and I also like the point that she brought up about how You know, there is science involved with marine protected areas and there should be science involved But it's very much a social and a political Or and I'm yeah, social political sort of issue and it's very much addressed at the policy level. So We I mean we still need more research on a lot of this But we've got a good amount of data right now to kind of Push for these, you know establishment of these areas and and how to design some of them in certain areas So, um, I think, you know, it's it's something that impacts scientists a lot But I think also we just need to recognize that it's It's a political issue. It very much is and that that's not saying that scientists don't play a part It's just knowing that you know, it's going to have to be part of a team of different stakeholders to address that Yeah, and I think I think it's important she really Drives home the fact that it's you know, it's socio-economic and and obviously the politics can evolve It's really done at the policy level Um, and it's something that a lot of people don't understand even from the science base when I grew up, you know Going through this whole marine protected area thing when I did my when I did my, um My masters in marine protected areas It was a very technical thing and yes, it's important to it's important for science to inform policy But that's what it does. It's not dry like it's it's not the only driver There's social science and then there's natural science and social science plays just Uh, if not more or equal Value in how we manage it because like I understand we manage We have to manage human behavior not fish not the habitats. They can survive on their own They've been fine for years. We have to manage our behavior around these fish around the oceans And that's what it really comes down to and I think a lot of people when they do these models and they start planning out marine protected areas They don't include the social science and that's a big big problem. So Um, and i've seen that problem before and a lot of people don't know how to include that. So Anyway, this is a great article. We'll link to it in the blog post Um at uh, speak up for blue.com session or 55 right now, so Um, it'll it'll be it'll be interesting I'd like to have a on or somebody from the weight foundation on to talk more about their blue halo initiative Because I think it's really important to talk about that these kind of things because they the more of this kind of stuff has to go on Um, so let's go on to the next the last article that we're going to cover And this has been in the news for a while. Um, so why don't you give us a brief intro to this one now Nathan, so we we talked a few weeks maybe even a month ago about Uh, the the potential for qba and the us tour together on marine protected areas And it seemed like when we talked about that that there was a lot more going on behind the scenes They just hadn't finalized anything yet. Um, it sounds like now they have Um, there's a new I believe it's called a memorandum of understanding and that was signed between the us uh, specifically Noah and their um In their national marine sanctuary office and the qba environmental Government department, I'm not sure of the exact name, but it it would create sort of a collaboration between the florida keys sanctuaries out in florida the flower garden bank sanctuaries off texas coast just about 100 miles from where I am um And a name that I'm going to mispronounce the guana haca bibes national park you did a better job than I could have You just got out of confidence And that's so that's on the west coast of qba And so there will be you know collaboration between the researchers and policy makers who manage all of these areas They'll be able to share data communicate about different management techniques Um, and there's a couple really good things from an ecological perspective. This is great because they're all kind of connected systems Absolutely. They're all around the gulf of mexico. Uh, we've talked about connecting this before but yeah a lot of the A lot of the larvae and um The other sort of plankton that are around the west coast of qba Follow up into the gulf coast from the currents there. So it's I mean you see a lot of the same population same ecosystems um, but then the other thing is from For talking between qba and the us there's been a lot of sort of diplomatic hang-ups But environmental cooperation has been a very big success story for that So I think you know from from a broader perspective It's nice to see that even two countries that don't agree on a lot of stuff can come together to Um promote environmental cooperation and managing the oceans. Um, but you know, it's also Very beneficial for the economy of qba that area is a huge ecotourism area qba is very well known for its healthy fish uh shark populations Um, I think it's a popular sea turtle nesting site as well. Yeah on the west coast of qba So it just seems like this is a really good opportunity to communicate between the us and qba for marine protection And also just to get more areas under you know, a similar management system so we can protect them more effectively Yeah, absolutely. I mean this is I mean this is the first step in a you know a long You know black history or dark history. I should say You know in east with these two countries, but this is a great first step. There is a huge backing on both sides Um, especially in the environmental field to really get together I think a lot of these the scientists have been waiting for this for Over 30 years for their career. I know billy kazi who is the director of the marine sanctuaries office in the key west area and he's you know, they've been they he brought in the flower garden banks marine sanctuary You know, they've they've been talking with cubans for a long time. They've these are their colleagues They've known each other for a while. They've been sort of sharing information not officially But just through conferences and meetings that they've been having with the different countries in the caribbean And I think this has been one of those things that they've been wanting to do Now they're going to start sharing information. They finally have permission and it's going really really well. And I think it's a great PR Opportunity for this this alignment because there's always that There's always been that relationship with the scientists and they've been talking about it forever and Um, and I think it's a great now. I think the other great thing is that Key west florida texas the gulf of mexico in general Has seen a boom in oil and gas has seen a boom in tourism They've seen the consequences that have happened for that and they've learned from that Especially the environmental managers and how to handle those those things Cuba Has been pretty much closed to the us for the last how long 50 maybe well obviously more than 50 plus years Yeah, 60 years 70 years You know and and now that that's opened up that's going to open up their tourism and also with that there's also opportunity for oil and gas companies to really come in and You know explore these opportunities in this pristine area. So you have to be they have to be very careful They get now cuba has the advantage of getting the stories And lessons learned from the us and apply them to cuba to say okay. Let's do this properly Let's manage these sanctuaries really well. Let's maybe add some more sanctuaries if we can they're going to be co Managed which will be great because they're all related like we talked about they're so close together I think what's a 90-mile separation between Cuba and florida? They're obviously connected. They don't see fish. Don't see political boundaries. So they don't care So there's probably movement back and forth of energy and and larvae and and plankton So we're going to see a lot of this happen and i'm i'm really excited To see How this is this is going to play out and and i'm just happy that everything's been signed and everything's going to go ahead Because I know the i know some people in the office the main sanctuaries office and in key west and they are like They're like like the people you look up to like you and i look up to in terms of conservationist managers from a government perspective They have they've been heroes in this area billy cozy and his and his colleagues have been heroes in this drive for marine sanctuaries where we're protected areas and management in general And i'd love to see this happen with cuba and and all that knowledge gets shared with a different country Than just other environmental managers so and and vice versa as well Um, so I think this is uh, this is going to be a great opportunity. I'm really excited to see this Yeah, and and i'd like to think jz's visit like what like a year ago I like to think that initiated it. I I kind of think he walked in put his briefcase on the floor A diplomat's office and said we need to talk about connectedness between these systems Yeah, you probably right you think you wrapped about it. Um, you know what? I wouldn't doubt it I'm sure it'll come out in the next few weeks. He'll take credit for it And that'll just be you know, he'll he'll be the new ambassador for global marine sanctuaries Hey, whatever it takes to get people involved, right? Whatever it would be a dream come true for me actually, you know, what's interesting is he's been a big advocate of You know getting water rights clean water to to people who need it in africa So he does have an environmental not agenda, but environmental interests. So you nev way there You never know, right? It doesn't take much to to just kind of dive over into that water conservation into ocean conservation I'll talk to his people and see if we get him up one day That'd be awesome. That'd be great. But uh, yeah, I mean, this is a big thing They like like the international especially with this with the past that these two countries have had the fact that they're um You know, they're aligning their priorities. They're sharing information and and hopefully there's I mean There's only good that can come out of this in in my opinion from a scientific and conservation perspective And I think we're seeing it here already people like there's I this article is just the the summary of it But I've seen people who are actually involved billy kazee David gugenheim who's a big ocean leader And he's got a cuban descent and he's american and so he's been back and he's been A part of this as well and they've just been showing pictures of the meetings and everybody having a good time and everybody happy We even saw on shark week last year. There was a cuban episode of about cuban sharks or sharks in cuba and It was awesome to see and and all see like how excited these american divers and explorers and scientists were to Dive in cuban waters and see these sharks and wonder the differences and and whatnot So I think it's uh, you can tell there's definitely some motivation some passion there and I think we're seeing that in these in these treaties Yeah, no, I I agree. I think Ultimately, it's it's going to be a good thing. It's I think it's a long time coming. So yeah Yeah, hopefully more of this in the future. Yeah for sure. So what we'll do will link this article and all the other articles in the blog post Um for today and there'll be shared so you can access it and take a look at the articles for yourself And if you want to do more research, absolutely go ahead There's a lot of links within the articles that you can go Uh and do but that's it for today's episode I just want to thank you guys for coming on the show and a reminder that if you want to support ocean conservation But you don't know where to begin you can go to our online store Speak up for blue.com forward slash shop and you can shop your heart away I know thanks american. Thanks given is coming up. You buy gifts for people I know there's christmas coming up and any other holiday season that's coming up Uh, where gifts are exchanged. This is a perfect opportunity and the best thing you can say is one Wearing or using these items you will start a conversation in ocean conservation awareness Two you will help support our partner sea turtles forever And their efforts into cleaning up beaches and protecting sea turtles all over the world Uh, so this is going to be one of those things that it's it's a win win win situation And uh, I think it'll be very valuable. So Nathan, thank you very much for attending another ocean talk friday I really appreciate it. No, you've been busy this week. So I appreciate it Thank you for having me and thanks for listening to me nerd out about stuff Well, we get to we get to nerd out about stuff together, which is kind of fun Um, but yeah, thank you very much for coming and people. Thank you very much for Sharing these episodes and all your support so far on on this podcast Are really that we really really appreciate it Um, it gives us a chance to kind of geek out to somebody else for a change instead of each other Um, so I really appreciate that and uh, yeah, you've been listening to speak up for blue podcast I'm your host angelon with Nathan johnson Happy weekend. Happy friday and happy conservation [Music]