What The Ale?
48. Ouija Board Murders
ghosts, cryptids, murder, conspiracies, beer, what? The L. Hello, friends. Hello, hello. Welcome back to What The L. I'm Alana Ray. And I'm Mama Jane. And before we get into it, Mama, what are you drinking? Do you have any What The L moments? My What The L is definitely what I'm sick and getting back from vacation and trying to catch up on work and all of the things and then getting sick does not help. So now I feel like I'm even more behind on all these things than I needed to catch up on. So it just kind of sucks. So I'm drinking massive amounts of water to try to hydrate and feel better. Gosh, yeah. The L is sick is no fun. Yes, I apologize for my voice and my sniffles. Awesome. And so you're what the L moment is also that, you're sick? Yeah. Yeah, it's a bummer. And it sucks. I hate not feeling well. And then my kids moving off to college in a few weeks and not feeling well during their last few weeks sucks, too. Because I want to be out doing things with them or cooking for them or whatever. And instead I'm just laying in bed. No fun. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, hopefully you're able to kick that guy to the curb soon. Yeah. [LAUGHS] Oh, thank you. I am-- what's up? I'm just having coffee. But a good one with the L is that I had a really awesome time watching the Olympics with my friends and we were at a bar watching the women's national team win gold and soccer. And then a few hours later, the men won gold and basketball. So that was really exciting. And so I've been having a lot of fun with that. But the Olympics are almost over. And that's kind of a bummer because it's been fun. But actually, a lot of events I haven't watched yet. So I've been like, today is kind of my catch-up day, like the random events I missed this week. So-- Yeah. Yeah. That's my one. Yeah, the women won the four by four relay last-- but yesterday, too. I heard that. I do want to watch it, though, because I am curious. I know that we were watching the track and field the other day. And it was Sydney McLaughlin beat her own record. And we were like, man, that's hard, though. Could you imagine you're setting your own records, which is actually a world record, which is like-- I can't even imagine being that amazing of an athlete. So-- Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I'm really happy for people that are-- I mean, there seems like there's all kinds of records being broken, so-- Yeah, there really are. It's exciting. And we saw a few folks who it was like their first time for their country getting medals. And that always feels good. And countries that I feel like you wouldn't expect. Anytime we saw a new country that we hadn't seen yet, we're like, yeah, welcome to the party. Yeah. So it's been fun. Well, it's been fun, too, to see celebrities that are really showing up for some of these people. I got to give it up to Flavor Flav. You know, heard about a team that had to go fund me. There are fees to travel and all the things. And so he paid for all of that. And it's nice to see celebrities using their money and their celebrity for good to support women's sports, which I think is very cool. Yeah. Well, Snoop Doggy Dogg is just out there. He's just having-- Yeah, he's everywhere. Yeah, he's everywhere. But I did find it annoying that during the Women's National team game, the first soccer, that they showed Tom Cruise like 25 times. And he said anything happened. They showed Tom Cruise. And this is like whatever. But like when you have like Olympic legends in the place, like why are you showing? Like if I were to show-- Well, then I would rather them just keep the camera on the players on the field and what's going on in the field rather than just showing Tom Cruise like chewing something or whatever, you know. And they didn't even talk about him. They just kept showing him. And I'm like, why do we keep cutting to him? Instead of, yeah, like you said, showing the other, you know, retired players in the stands or just keeping the cameras on the field to what's going on. But it was really annoying that they showed him so many times. Yeah. I wonder if this is how people felt about Taylor Swift last year. Maybe. I don't know. I'm not a football person, so I don't know. But maybe. Because I-- yeah, I kept going. Why do they keep cutting to him? And again, when they cut to some of these other people, it's because they were really turning out as big fans or they were doing something for the team or whatever. But to just have him just standing there. I don't know. It just seemed dumb to keep cutting to him. Yeah. And no offense to Tom Cruise. I'm not saying that you don't want to be a sport fan or whatever. But I mean, he obviously can't control that he's there. But like-- Yeah, he's just standing there. But whoever was deciding to keep showing him, I was just like, you know? Yeah, well, I feel like there were a couple injuries and things. We're like, I wanted to see what happened. And they would show Tom Cruise. And I was like, why? I want to know what's happening. I thought he was there. I thought he's supporting women's sports. But I just don't understand why the camera kept going to him. Yeah. And I know he can't control it. But-- Yeah, absolutely not. Not his fault. Very strange. I was like, y'all, it was a good game, though. I mean, it was tough. And then they didn't even bring Marta until the end, which that had to be hard for her, too, to her last game and not getting to play until the end. Yeah, but I mean, it sucks. A lot of people were like, I think I was struggling. Because I was like, oh, Marta's great. But we still got to win. We got to do these. And what was it? Sophie Smith's birthday, I think. So I was like, best birthday present ever, girl. You win yourself a gold. But I felt that for her. Because that had to be hard to watch from the sidelines, knowing it's your last game. Because I get wanting to have younger legs than the game. I took from coaching perspective. I get not having her play the whole game. But from her perspective, it was probably hard to sit out at the first half and most of the second. Yeah. Well, it makes me think about when Rapino and Abby Wombak were also going to retire. And they only got to play 10 minutes of their last games, which is like, if it was my last game, I would have wanted to play as long as possible. But I also understand from a coaching standpoint why. I don't know. Definitely hard. But it was fun to watch. For sure, for sure, for sure. And now I got to catch up on my track and field. There's just so many for track and field. Like I'm so big soccer. It's like, you know, every two days. And then like, yeah, that's a lot. Yeah. I'm doing my best. Well, are you ready to get into your topic for the week, Mo? I am. So I decided to cover the very first Ouija board killer. And I know there have been other murders that have been probably blamed by Ouija board telling them to do things. But this is the first one. So do you know the story of Dorothea and Maddie Turley? I've heard the name. I feel like I probably know what this is. OK. So for anybody that doesn't know or 1890, the Ouija board first received its patent by a person named Elijah Bond. He lived in Baltimore at the time. Parker Brothers held the patent for a long time and now Hasbro has it. But the idea behind the Ouija board was just kind of like following the idea of automatic writing, where you let the spirits guide your pen. And that idea that the spirits can guide your pen has been around for centuries. So the Ouija board was basically designed as a kids game, but followed that concept by having a game board that has the alphabet written out on it. And you use a plan chat to kind of spell things out. Some of those people know what a Ouija board is, but it does come from the idea of automatic writing, where the spirits are guiding you. So spiritualism was growing in popularity. So by the 1920s, Ouija boards were super popular. And they were influenced by the idea of unconscious movements. And I added in or older cousins that are trying to fuck with their younger cousins, because as a kid, I would play with my cousins and they would always like move it to make it say things that would freak me and my other cousins. So anyways, but yeah, my cousins would always like just write stuff that would scare us. So sometimes it's not influenced by unconscious movements, but very conscious movements of people who are trying to ascend certain messages to other people around the board. - Totally. - That's lumber parties and stuff too, like. - Yeah. So anyways, Dorothea Turley was the youngest of two children. Her family immigrated to New York when she was only one years old. And she became a very beautiful woman and she had a beautiful voice. And in 1917 at the age of 22, she entered a contest put on by the evening world to find the American Venus. And so 50,000 people entered this contest and you had to submit photos and your measurements and stuff like that. And she won because she had the closest measurements to the Venus de Milo. And she became like an overnight celebrity. Celebrities and regular men started writing to her and offering marriage proposals. She had like massive fan mail. And even attention when she was out where people were wanting to take photos of her and she would take photos inside autographs and all that stuff because she just really loved the attention. She ended up marrying a man named Ernest J Turley on December 21, 1917. And they moved to Boston and they had a daughter named Maddie. And the birth of their daughter also made it into the papers because she was the American Venus so people were still following her. But of course, once she had her daughter, her popularity quickly dwindled. So once she became a mother, there was like no interest in her anymore. All the fan mail and the letter stopped coming, photos and autographs stopped being asked about, press stopped following her. And so it was-- I don't know. I think it's pretty sad to see how often these kind of things happen where when a woman has a big change or a big event in their life, people just lose interest and move on. And so I just wanted to say ladies are worth and value is not in her face and body, even though we are set up to believe that. But obviously, she was very distraught about all of this. She really enjoyed the fame and popularity. And then in 1919, she had a son named David who was also born and Ernest retired from the Navy two years later in '21. And so they decided they needed a change. So they moved to Coronado in San Diego. Oh, love Coronado. I knew you were going to say that. It's so pretty. I mean, it's a group where to live there. A house is like $8 million, but it is beautiful. Yeah, it's such a beautiful area. And it seemed like she was hoping that moving to California, she could get some stardom. But that just didn't happen. And she was kind of like settling into domestic life, but very unhappy about that. And she was also dissatisfied with the pension that they were getting from the Navy. I think she wished that Ernest would go back to work or do something to make more money. So following this spiritual energy, because she was a follower of the spiritualist movement, she decided to turn to a higher power through a Ouija board for guidance. And she was also studying subconscious and other spiritual things. So she was just getting really into that. And some people said she even had some occult practices, but I couldn't really find any details on that. But around 1933, she started developing really severe asthma. And the doctors had told her that maybe if she moved to a drier climate, it would help her. So they decided to move to Arizona. And apparently the kids were really excited about all the hunting and fishing and things that they would do once they lived in Arizona. So what does a good dad do when his kids are excited about hunting and fishing? Buys them guns. He bought them each a shotgun. It always shocks me that that's like the go-to. I mean, I guess back then it was a very different time, but yeah, they were all excited about hunting. Well, back then your life expectancy was like 30 years. So they were like, you might as well live while you're a third of the way into your life. Well, and they were wanting to learn how to run a farm and all the things. So they were wanting to have that kind of life. OK. So they met a man named Kent Pierce, and he was like a rancher cowboy type. And he helped them find a cabin to live in. And Dorothea seemed to really love it, which given what she had wanted for her life, I was surprised to hear that she actually really loved living this cabin in Arizona. But she would take these long drives to explore nature. And everybody just seemed to be settling in and seemed happy. But it turned out that when Dorothea would take these long drives, she wasn't going alone. The rugged looking cowboy Kent was her tour guide. And Maddie would sometimes go out with them. And Kent had a 16-year-old assistant named Pollard Wilte Banks, who would hang out with Maddie. And so they would sometimes even take overnight trips and earnest and seem bothered by that. I-- you know, when the press got involved after the murder happens, which we'll get to, they described that Maddie and her mom would have what they called petting parties, which were basically like make-out parties in the woods or in the desert or whatever. And they made it sound like they would plan these things. So made it sound like it was with other people too. But I don't know if that's true or not. That was just one article that I read. But I thought that was an interesting way for the press to put that out was that they would have petting parties. I mean, they couldn't say they were having orgies, right? So it happened dead, but it's weird. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah, and then it does seem like, not Maddie, it seems like Dorothea was pretty open with a lot of neighbors and stuff that she wanted to marry Kent and that they were in a relationship or whatever. But Ernest didn't really seem to know. Or if he knew he didn't care, I don't know. Maybe it was an open marriage thing. But she wasn't like hiding the fact that they were seeing each other. Right. And then-- so Dorothea, she's still in the spiritualist thing. She tells Ernest that she found what she called picture rocks, which, she alleged, were drawings from indigenous people. And she told Ernest that because of the picture rock, she decided to consult the Ouija board. And that she found that the rocks were clues to where gold could be found and that the board let her know exactly where to find the gold. And so Ernest, being a good husband, borrows equipment to excavate, and after a ton of work, he finds nothing. So frustrated, he goes to her and he kind of tells her off. And she tells him that the Ouija board admitted that it was mistaken. And in his frustration, he tells her up. And it tells her exactly what she thinks about the board and that it's all bullshit and everything. And so they start fighting more often after this event. And then the kids remember hearing her threaten Ernest at least twice. And some accounts said that she, even in public one time, said, every time I look at you, I want to kill you. And that other people also heard her say that. Girl, you're not yourself a whole. Yeah. So Maddie and Dorothea start using the Ouija board together and having seances. And Maddie's getting really into it because she's believing all the things that Dorothea is telling her about spiritualism. And one night, Dorothea asked the board who she should be with Ernest or Kent. And the board spells out, "Daddy must die." Oh. [LAUGHTER] Wow. [LAUGHTER] You know, that seems like a pretty clear message. Yeah. So Maddie is like shocked by this. But Dorothea is cool as a cucumber and asked if she should kill Ernest. And the plan check goes right. Yes. Then Dorothea asks, "Who should kill him?" And it goes to MT. So Dorothea is like, oh, I guess you have to be the one to do it. Maddie is totally-- [LAUGHTER] So mom's just like setting her up. So then she asks how they should do it. And the board says shotgun. And then she asked if they attempt, will it be successful? And the board says yes, but it'll be successful on the second attempt. And then Maddie asks if she has to do it. And Dorothea says, "There's no escaping the board's command." And then correct. Yeah. And then Dorothea goes on to tell Maddie that she is very connected to the spiritual world. And that if Maddie doesn't do it, she will likely be punished by the spirits and suffered greatly. OK. So this woman obviously wrote out a message, but doesn't want her hands dirty. Yeah. Yep. And so then she says she'll do a card reading furnace to confirm just with regular deck of cards. And she pulls the ace of spades, which is known as the death card. And then she is like, well, there you have it. Clearly, the spirits weren't him dead. OK. Or I mean, I don't know about divorce, but there are options, lady. Yeah. So Dorothea tells Maddie that it is her job to release Bama from the shackles of this marriage so that she could go live her best life with the cowboy. And then Dorothea starts asking earnest about life insurance and she learns that he has two policies that will pay out $5,000, and then she would have his pension. I don't know. Like, you know, it doesn't seem like that's a ton. I mean, I know it's in the '20s, '30s, but it doesn't seem like a ton of money, but she does seem like a kind of short-term thinker. So maybe that was fine with her. Right. So one night-- Absolutely enough to live on for a little bit, but-- Yeah. She'd have to find a husband. Well, but she's planning to marry Kent. So maybe that's OK. Right. So one night, earnest, David and Maddie are going hunting. And as they are leaving, Dorothea says, don't forget your promise, Maddie. And Maddie says, yes, mother, I won't forget. But later that night, the three of them return, and Maddie apologizes to Dorothea. And of course, Dorothea has already planned for this and said, remember, the board said the first attempt would not be successful. So Dorothea is a clever motherfucker. She knew that Maddie was likely to back out the first time. And so she had the board predict that so that she could use that to convince Maddie to see the board new. So the board is right. The board knows what should happen. So she-- but that's smart. That's some pre-planning to know that your kid's probably not going to be able to do it the first time that you tell them to. Wow. She's very clever. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. So on November 17, 1933, a skunk gets into their house and starts fighting with their cat. So you can imagine that probably smelled terrible. So everyone was up on night trying to find the skunk. And they were all on edge and kind of moody and whatever. The next day was David's birthday. So Dorothea tells Maddie to stay home with dad and hunt the skunk while she takes David out for birthday errands to get things for his birthday dinner and cake and all that. Mm-hmm. And but it was clear to Maddie that by hunt the skunk, it was clear to her what her mom meant. And so they couldn't find the skunk. So Ernest ended up going on with his chores. And Maddie was just kind of watching him and holding the shotgun and contemplating whether to do it or not. And you're feeling really torn about it. But when he was coming back from milking cows, she does as he's walking away and he's got his back towards her. She does raise her shotgun and shoot him in the back. But he does not die immediately. And he tells her to get help. He automatically assumed that it was an accident. And he tells her she needs to be more careful. And then when Dorothea and David get home, she tells them what happened. And hours later, a doctor came and several neighbors were standing around and trying to be helpful. And Kent was also there. But everybody was super empathetic to Maddie because they thought it was an accident. And she told people she dropped the gun and it went off when it hit the ground. - Right. - So when the doctor was working with him at the house, Kent was like there and holding the light and trying to help the doctor and do all the things. So he tried to play a role of a helpful neighbor. But he ended up getting transferred to a hospital in San Diego and the Naval hospital. And so it seemed like everybody was buying the story, but there was one sheriff that was like, this doesn't make sense. And he realized that the trajectory of the bullets didn't align with the story that the gun went off from the ground, because if it came up from the ground, I guess the gun, it was near his head. And if it was from the ground, it would have come up through the hip into the back. But it came from a higher point, because she was holding it shoulder range, it's a shotgun. So she's holding it shoulder range. So he was like, that doesn't make sense that the bullet came from a gun that hit the ground. - Yeah, no. - So he ends up confronting Maddie and she starts confessing everything, including what the Ouija board had told them, and her mom said that she had to do it. And she also stressed that the main thing that convinced her to do it was the look on her mother's face and the desperation that her mother had to marry Kent. And Dorothea, of course, tries to say that the confession was forced so that outside authorities came in and Maddie was very clear that her confession was honest and it was not forced. So she gets charged and goes to juvenile court. And during the trial, Kent starts denying that he had any kind of relationship with Dorothea, even though Dorothea had already told people she was planning to marry him. But four days after Maddie's trial started, Ernest died in the hospital. And so the charges were no longer assault or attempted murder. It became a murder trial. - Right. - And she was found guilty. I mean, obviously she confessed and everything. So she was found guilty and she was ordered to go to a state school for girls for six years. And she would be 21 when she would be released. Now Dorothea's case takes place about six months later. She was really trying to avoid going to trials 'cause she was doing all kinds of things to delay and whatever. And Dorothea's lawyers continue to say that the story that Maddie was telling, which of course was the truth, but they were saying that it was forced on her by law enforcement and that it was just a made up story. - Right. - Maddie continued to be very clear that she was telling the truth. And then when Dorothea testified, she totally throws Maddie under the bus. And she says that Maddie was mad at them because they were strict parents. And then she says, "Maddie was angry with her father and me. "We didn't want her to use Rouge "or to run about at night with cow punchers "or to cross her legs the way she did "or to wear such short dresses. "She had been influenced to place the blame "for this killing on me "because some of the cowboys didn't like me." So like, you would think usually a mom would like try to protect their child or whatever, but she totally just made it like, because they were strict parents or had rules that Maddie just decided to do this on her own and whatever. So Dorothea, I mean, for lots of reasons, but she's just a horrible person, a horrible mom. - Yeah. - That's crazy. - Yeah. And then Pollard, which was the boy that would hang out with Maddie on these double dates with Mom and Kent, he testified about his relationship with Maddie and then he said, "Essentially, "we were going on double dates with them. "They were in a relationship." So Kent didn't end up testifying that he and Dorothea did have an affair, but he had no intention of marrying her. And of course, Dorothea was very upset when she heard that 'cause she thought that they were gonna get married and run off together. And then neighbors also testified about her wanting to marry Ken and that it seems like she did have definite reasons to want her husband out of the picture. So with all of that testimony, the court did find her guilty of murder too. And in July 7th, 1934, she was sentenced to 10 to 25 years. - Okay. - And during that time, Maddie got transferred from the school to girls to the covenant, or the convent of the Good Shepherd in Phoenix. - Okay. - So, but of course, Dorothea's not going down without a fight. So she's, you know, starts fighting for a new trial. And on May 19th, 1936, she gets another chance. This time her lawyers argued that the case was presidential or about prejudicial because she didn't share all the dirt on Maddie. And so she basically wanted to like even say more about Maddie's character to destroy her character so that it would seem like all the fall was Maddies. And then Dorothea had nothing to do with it. And so they did end up ordering a new trial for Dorothea and she was moved to a prison in Apache County. And then one of the key players in the case, which was the sheriff who was the one who didn't believe the original story, he had died. And he said that he felt like Ken's testimony about their relationship, you know, that Ken was just this like good-looking, smooth-talking guy. And it was so convincing, you know, about who she was or whatever. And the judge decided that that was prejudicial. And so he decided to acquit her, which is like shocking because it's clear she didn't. And even if other people had something to say about her, I mean, that does speak to her character and that is an important part of the case. So yeah, I don't know. So once she's released, she goes to try to see Maddie, but Maddie said she never wants to hear again. And she wrote a note for one of the prison workers to give to her mom and Dorothea moves in with her brother. And so Maddie's trying to also get a new trial, but they're trying to keep it like on the downloads so that Dorothea doesn't find out. And everyone seems to understand that this girl was like super manipulated by her mom and you know, she wouldn't have committed this crime without her mom like convincing her to. And when they saw that Maddie set the hard limit with her mom about not wanting to see her and all of that, people in the community law enforcement and the judicial system start to work together to get Maddie quietly released without Dorothea finding out. So she gets paroled on November 30th, 1936. And then Dorothea tries to go to the court to get info about Maddie's whereabouts, but her request was denied. You know, it just seemed like everybody wanted Maddie to have a chance to like live outside of Dorothea's influence, you know? And then on April, you know, Dorothea does not quit. She's like, she's like just gonna keep going. So on April 19th, 1938, Dorothea files an alienation lawsuit against Thelma Bradford Bailey, who is the superintendent at the school that Maddie was at. And she claimed that Thelma poisoned Maddie's mind against her so that Maddie wouldn't talk to her anymore. Hmm, she was suing for $75,000. And I just, you know, it just seems so clear to everybody that her mom is like the problem person, but mom is like, so I don't know, like crazy or distorted that she thinks everybody else is the problem where she thinks that she's gonna find a way to convince everybody that, you know, she's not the problem in the case, but by October 11th of that following year, the case was dismissed. And so, you know, it just, and then they, you know, it doesn't seem like they ever redeveloped a relationship or anything, but I'm really glad that Maddie was able to set that her limit. Right. And, you know, I know that she murdered her dad and murder is wrong, but I really am glad that she didn't have to serve her whole time and that she could go on and have a life of her own because it does seem like she would have never done something like this without her mom's influence. Yeah, well, it does seem like, especially with her mom's conviction being thrown out, it seems unfair that Maddie would have to serve time. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So anyways, that's the very first case of a Ouija board being blamed for somebody committing murder. Wow. That's hilarious. I love, 'cause there are definitely cases where like, you know, the guys, those guys were like, do you remember that like in the '70s, they were like, we're Satanists and it told us to kill our parents or whatever. Like, there's definitely those cases. Yeah. So, I do think they're very interesting, but that's crazy. I mean, I can imagine believing anything a Ouija board says, let alone like, you know, being like, I'm gonna kill my dad. Like, that's crazy. But how's that is that? That you have your mom like convincing you that that's the right thing to do, you know. I just like, that's the part that gets me is that it was her mom that was like convincing her to do this. I'm like, you know, moms are supposed to protect their children. We are supposed to keep you all safe and out of trouble. And for her to want Maddie to have to take the fall for all this is just some bullshit. Yeah. It's definitely messed up. It's fun. One then to try to like, one relationship with her after, you know, it's like, you know, why, you know, because you know, you can manipulate her or you're gonna try to convince her to do other deeds for you or, you know, whatever, but I don't even know why she would want a relationship with her, you know, I mean, it probably is just to continue to manipulate her. Well, that's the thing with like that type of person, right? Like, just because they've done something wrong, you're supposed to forgive them or whatever, you know. Yeah. Which is bullshit. Like, please, if you have a relationship like that, just stop talking to them. But, you know, like, yeah, it's hard, especially when it's your parents. And I'm proud of her for setting boundaries. Setting boundaries is hard. So. And I, you know, I don't know what happened to Maddie in terms of like, you know, how much guilt she held or remorse or any of that. You know, I'm sure she felt a lot of that, but I do hope that she, you know, recognizes her mom's role. I mean, clearly she does if she set those boundaries, but, you know, not that it makes it okay what she did, but, you know, I do hope she's able to let go of some of the guilt at least. Because, yeah, she was totally convinced to do something horrible and horrific. And, you know, it just, it's so sad. And to lose her dad who seemed like a pretty good guy, you know what I mean? He seemed like a stable parrot. I'm like a person who, you know, was just trying to do right by his family and all that. So it's just sad that she lost a more stable parrot. - Yeah, definitely. It's hard, it's hard, it's hard. - Well, thanks for telling us that story, mama. - Yep. - If y'all liked this episode, you could follow us on Instagram @whithyelpod. We also have an email if you have any topic ideas or personal stories or anything like that you wanna share with us. It's whattheelpod@gmail.com. We also have a Patreon. If you go to patreon.com and look up what the ill podcast, we will pop right up. And outside of that, I just wanna say I appreciate you, mama. - I appreciate you too, babe. - And we appreciate you, friends. Bye-bye. - Bye.