[MUSIC] What's up everybody, Metal Dave along with my co-host Jason McMaster, bringing you another episode of the Talk Louder podcast. Today we are joined by Austinite, Johnny Goudy. Johnny has been in the Austin music scene for decades. And multiple bands, he's got his own podcast called How Did I Get Here? He's been doing that for 13 years, he's got more than 1400 episodes. Numerous bands over the years, he caught the attention at one time of Lars Ulrich from Metallica, who was interested in signing his band, and actually did sign his band. And so Johnny's got this really unique perspective of having worked with Lars. And spent some time at his house, spent a lot of time talking to him and trying to make this band work. And that alone was really interesting. >> A lot of people don't realize Lars had for a short time he had his own record label that was a subsidiary of Elektra Records. Of course, this would have been pre-blackened records, which is basically a supreme vanity label, but it's Metallica has their own. They own their own masters, they own their own catalog and things like that. But so when Elektra, as far as I am to understand it, when Metallica was on Elektra and releasing material solely on Elektra, they gave Lars the reins to this subdivision of Elektra. And they were the first band for him to sign. >> Yeah. >> The Goudy, it was just called Goudy. >> Yeah, yes. >> And he talks a little bit about the development of the songs and how it all kind of came down. And we'll let Johnny tell you all the stories cuz it's quite fascinating. And then he talks a little bit about his growing up. And the good, the bad, and the ugly. He mentions throughout, he starts talking about his podcast, which I just can't believe 13 years and over 1400 episodes. Seems to me is like, I'm not a mathematician. Is that like a hundred episodes a year or more? >> I don't know, but I'm not a mathematician either. That's why we do this show, but he does a lot, dude. >> He puts out two episodes a week. And I know- >> That's a lot. >> We put out one a week and it's a lot of work. So putting out two a week, there's some differences. He doesn't have a video component and whatever. But there is no doubt about it. I can tell you firsthand folks that- >> It's something that I didn't bring up. But I think for a little while on maybe public access or some kind of local TV, he had a cooking show with AJ Vallejo, and I forgot to bring it up to him. You knew about it too? >> Now that you say it, and you mentioned AJ Vallejo along with now. >> I think they had a fucking cooking show for a while. >> That was probably hilarious. >> Yeah. >> But anyway, so Johnny is this really, he's an onion. He's got all of this really fun facts about him and he's really, really easy to talk to and he just loves art and music and it was awesome. All I had to do was reach out and get ahold of them to have him on the show. So thank you, Johnny. >> Yeah, absolutely. You guys go way back and I, as a spectator on the sidelines, I'm aware of who Johnny is since the day I got to Austin, which was 30 years ago. And he was already well established at that point. So he's been a major player in the Austin music scene, regardless of which band he's in. We should rattle off a couple of the band names. He was in Mr. Rocket Baby, what's the current one? He had Gaudi, of course. Gaudi, by the way, if you're going to go out and look for it on YouTube or whatever is G-O-U-D-I-E. And Sky Rocket is the other band. >> Yeah, Sky Rocket is like a 70s AM radio pop cover band, which is really fun. They play parties and they actually tour. So he probably makes pretty good money doing that and I bet it's a whole lot of fun. But he still writes and plays and collaborates and records with multiple artists who seem to be our solo artist or and/or just singer, songwriter stuff, which is what Austin, Austin flavor, right? And he's really good in his own right. He's a multi instrumentalist. It doesn't surprise me that he's got a successful podcast that's at least locally award winning. So check it out, his podcast is again called How Did I Get Here? So check that out and just Google, Gaudi, please, he's a great guy. You should learn a little bit about him. >> Yeah. And just to add a little more, he's done work with written songs and played with a number of the women in the Go-Go's. He's been out on the road with the Bodines. I think he said he went out with Ian Moore. >> That's correct. >> So yeah, he's worked with some art and he did some work with Fastball. We've had Tony Scalzo on the show before. So yeah, Johnny, he's a passionate music fan and a well-versed musician. And as you say, he plays multiple instruments and has managed to get a lot of great work with a lot of established people and has established himself in his own right. The photo montage I want to mention that you'll probably be seeing during this clip here. There's a picture of him with Anvil. There's a picture of him and Aynar is bass player standing with Lars, of course. There's a picture. I think it's a screenshot of an interview. It looks like he did over Zoom with Nancy Wilson from Heart. And there's just a bunch of really cool. It's like I didn't get to ask him, it's like where did you run into Anvil? Did you go see Anvil play somewhere? How did you get Nancy Wilson on your show? And I bet he's got this 30-minute long story about how, oh, we were at dinner and they walked in and the next thing you know, we're doing shots or whatever, you know, who knows? >> I bet I know how he got the Nancy Wilson thing. I'm just going to throw a dart here. >> Throw your dart of Gestimation. >> Johnny is friends with Mark Andes. >> Oh, there you go. Okay, right. >> There was a bass player in Heart for a minute. >> And who's a long-time austenite? >> Right. >> Right. >> So I bet there's a connection there. >> Could be. >> Could be. >> That's a good guess. >> Yeah. We ought to hit him up on that. >> Mark, we need to get Mark Andes on here. >> Yeah. >> Sounds like to me, we can ask Mark Andes. So how did you tell us the story about how you got Nancy to be on a Johnny show? >> Yeah. That'd be -- I'm fantasizing again. >> Yeah. >> Take us out. Take us out, Dave. >> Yeah, anyway, a well-versed musician, a passionate music fan, and he's all over the place. He's got a podcast. He's got his bands. He's got his music. We love him. We had a great time with him today. Johnny Gaudy on the "Talk Louder" podcast. Okay, so I am so excited to be doing this with you guys. Like I'm a huge fan of both of you, and I'm a huge fan of you guys together, and I'm a huge fan of "Talk Louder." >> Wow. >> I know I said it before, and I hear it if he's secretly watching us. >> Well, he will be, but he edits this crap. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Or old content, as we prefer to call it. >> Well, and Dave's always going -- I'm glad Jason's not our PR person, but he also knows it's my vocabulary as well. >> Get the hook. >> Because there'll be a bag of gold, and I'll go, "Where do I put this crap?" >> No, we're excited to have you. >> I have been watching you from afar like the whole time, and a fan of yours -- I don't know if you know this, but I'm a fan of yours. I mean, I don't own everything you've ever done, I've never listened -- I can't listen to "1400+" podcasts, and we're going to -- we're going to -- we're fans. >> You know, and we're going to probably get into all that, but yeah, I'm a fan, and if you ever -- if you ever think that you don't have any or one, I'm one. >> Thank you. That means a lot. I'm also a big fan of yours. I was thinking yesterday, I remembered when we met. >> Wow. Really, do you tell? >> I do. I just -- I just think we do. In 1990, I still lived in Houston. I was in this band called Pan Jandrum, and I don't know if she knew you, but there was a lady that was an A&R person for a publishing company that was called Emerald Forest. I don't -- her name was Kathy Waldman, is Kathy Waldman, but she kind of came to oversee this recording of a demo that we did for that company, and we rehearsed for a couple of days at the arc, and I remember at one point, she was like, "Oh, that's the guy from Dangerous Toys," and then I -- she was like, "I'll introduce you to him," and I met you. >> Sweet. >> Yeah. >> And then for all those years after, it was 1990, it would have been the summer of 1990? >> '90. >> '90. Yeah, we might have been there rehearsing for -- well, obviously, we were rehearsing for something. >> Well, I feel like a lot of, like, our friendship was in the driveway or the entry of the arc, or the hallway, like -- or the picnic table. >> You know, the first time. This is interesting. I'm glad that you brought this up in every way, and I'm sorry that I don't remember the lady. >> That's all right. >> Kathy's -- I don't remember that at all, but -- >> Well, I was meeting the singer from Dangerous Toys, and you were meeting some dude from Houston. That was rehearsing. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah, pretty much. >> That was -- that was no issue. Permission to have no guilt at all. I love it. >> That's no guilt. >> I feel like we just took a religion course or something, you know? No guilt. No guilt. The true confessions. That's where I first met Dave. That's where I met first met -- Dave was at the arc. He was the guy showing up with a 12-pack of Budweiser to all the punk rock band rehearsals. >> Yeah. >> Thanks for letting me come into y'all's rehearsal. I brought the beer. Hoorah! You know, that was metal Dave. >> Yes. I spent many hours at the Austin rehearsal complex, and as you both probably know, I am not a musician. So I was there because all my friends were in bands, and all my friends at the time were punk rockers, and the punk rockers could only afford like the 11 p.m. slot on Tuesday for rehearsal. Or whatever it was. So I'd show up with the beer, and we'd stay until however late they could stay or however late the punk rockers could afford. And yeah, I met a lot of people, Johnny, just like you said, a lot of friendships were established in the hallways or the driveway at the old arc rehearsal complex, and yeah, many fond memories. >> We could do a whole whole show on that. >> Actually, Jason, I met you at Zeros in Corpus Christi was the very first time. >> Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. I remember that. Was it scythe? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Much like Johnny, so Johnny, a little background, I was living in San Antonio at the time, and all my friends in San Antonio were in metal bands, right? So there was this metal band called Scythe that I was best friends with, and I used to go to all their shows and help them up gear and all that stuff. And they had a gig in Corpus Christi at this place called Zeros. So I went to the show, helped them load in, I'm standing in the crowd, the band's on stage playing. I'm wearing a black leather jacket with a hand painted motorhead logo on the back, and I get this tap on my shoulder in the middle of a song, you know, the place is screaming loud. I can't hear a thing. And I turn around, and there's Jason, and just like you, Johnny, it's like, he goes, "That's a badass jacket." And I'm like, "Wow." And then so when the music quiets down, he introduces, he goes, "Hi, I'm Jason." I was like, "Oh, yeah, I know who you are, because I'm thinking of myself, what is the guy from Dangerous Toys doing in this dive in Corpus Christi?" And it turned out it was around the Thanksgiving holidays, and Jason was home because his family is from Corpus, but he's from Corpus. I didn't know this at the time, but that's how we met. And just like you, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I know who you, you're the guy from Dangerous Toys." I'm just, I'm just some chomp hanging out with this metal band. Yeah. But with a badass jacket. True. Well, I did have that jacket on in my credit, yeah. Metal Dave always had a bad ass jacket. And I can only be friends with people who have bad ass jackets, so Johnny, if you went to your closet and turned the camera on, your closet, I'd be like, "Yep, we can be friends. I'm sure there's some bad ass jackets in there." Yeah, they're probably a little frillier than... Yeah, you know, but I mean, if it was... If it's frilly... If it's frilly in the right way, like Ronnie Wood could wear it, then I'm down. I'm down. And yeah. Jason is a huge Elton John fan, so I'm sure that. That's true. Jason, do you dress Elton-ish? Not like Elton, but when you do the Captain Fantastic, are you still doing that? Yeah. I am, and I'm... Do you wear like crazy glasses or anything? No, not crazy glasses. I wear these glasses. And I'm playing guitar, so even if I dressed up as, you know, if I put on the Donald Duck costume and waddled out there, I don't know how many people would really know why I'd be wearing a Donald Duck costume other than about three people. No, I don't dress Elton, and I play guitar while I'm singing, so the Elton costume wouldn't really work. But yeah, I am a huge fan. I like everything. I'm omnivorous. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. No, I know that. That's one of the things I love about you. Let's just pick a place. It doesn't have to be from the beginning, but when did you come to Austin? Well, initially, like, I moved here in 1984 with my mom, and we were living in the woodlands at the time. I was already playing music, and she was really close friends with this woman named Kathleen Luce, who was married to Mark Holman at the time in the early 80s. Okay. And they were close friends. I became friends with Mark, and as I wanted to become a musician, he kind of took me under his wing. Is Mark Holman the guitar player for Carol King? He played guitar, but he also produced a couple of records for her, and he plays with Dan Fogelberg. He owned the Congress House. Holy shit. I have to confess, I read some stuff on your Wikipedia page that put that information together because I didn't know who Mark Holman was. Okay. Yeah. He sounds impressive. Yeah. I'm surprised you guys haven't crossed paths. I mean, he's married to Wayne's sister. Maybe we have, and I just didn't put two and two together. I could be walking by him going, "Hey, Mark, how's it going?" And not realizing he was in Carol King's band, Own Congress House, and is this bad motherfucker? Yeah. He's a bad motherfucker. In Austin, there's just all these bad motherfuckers everywhere. So it's kind of, "Hey dude, so," you know what I mean? It does it. It's not only the live music capital of the world, it's the bad motherfucker capital of the world. Yeah. Well, I like that title better because the live music capital of the world is just a t-shirt slogan to get people to move here. So how did that connection lead to you coming to Austin then? Yeah. Okay, so that connection was, "My mom was a single mom, and we lived in the woodlands, and she initially moved to the woodlands when I was in fourth grade." In the woodlands? The woodlands Houston. Outside of Houston. Yeah. Yeah. Because we lived in California in Marin County, and she'd been dating some guy, and we lived there with this dude, and then they split up. We moved to Houston. We moved into, like, Montrose, and in Marin County, it was one of those places where you could just leave in the morning and come back at dark because it was just the wood you weren't going to get, you know, molested or kidnapped or any shit was going to happen to you. You might get eaten by a bear. Like, that's it. Right. That's going to happen. Whoa. So we moved into Houston into Montrose, and I couldn't go outside of my house except in the backyard, and it was like, I mean, it cramped my style. Like I was like an outside running around kid my whole life. And so then my mom, they were building the woodlands and we moved up there so that I could have a little bit more, but, you know, being in a place where I could do my own thing as a kid. But then as I got older, when I was like 14, I wanted to play music and all that stuff, and my mom was a single mom, and you can't really, the woodlands in the 80s, wasn't a place for a single lady to meet dudes, because everyone there is married. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. So anyway, she wanted to change the scene. I definitely, like I was obsessed with music, like, you know, you are when you first just like when you, when you make that choice, I made that choice when I was 13, that this was it. Like this is what I was going to do. And, and so moving here was a huge thing because I get to be around Mark and he would be able to teach me stuff and whatever. And, and so, so we moved up here after I finished ninth grade. We moved up here in the summer of 84, and then we lived here a little over a year, and then my mom died. She was murdered. I'm sure you read that in the thing as well. Yeah. And so then I moved to Miami. I had known that, I had known that already, and that shit has been on Dateline and all of the true crime shit, and it was something that I learned long after you and I had met and sort of become pals and, and, and, and well-rehearsed friends. And I, I, I just, I, I didn't know that. And so, you know, I've never spoken to you about that. So I learned it all off of the news, if you would, you know, a true crime show. And it's one of those things that when you go through it, like to bring it up in conversation, like fucking bummer, you're like, well, it is a bummer in mind. You're going to kill whatever vibe you're, you're in like, of course, you're like, oh, I've got something to say. And then you're like, I'll probably shouldn't say it, because then the next hour and a half are locked in this sad thing. Yeah. Understood. And, you know, my heart is broken every time, you know, I recall that or it's brought up. Yeah. So I didn't know that at all. I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, it's terrible. I'm not right. But you, what did you do? What happened at that point? Because that's kind of a, that's like, here's your world. It's moving along fine. And then, oh, it's upside down now. What am I going to do now? Um, and you're what? Well, it was really, it was, no, no, no, I was, she was attacked the day before my 17th birthday. So it was like a 10 to 17 when she died. Okay. So we moved here and Mark had totally taken me under his wing as we thought would happen. And then I ended up playing with him. Like I started playing with him that summer before my mom died, which was unbelievable. I was like some 16 year old kid, you know, playing with Michael Ramos and Mark Hallman and all these dudes and it was, it was unbelievable. And I was kind of like living the dream and then my mom died. And I had to move to Miami and live with my dad who was, who put me like in an all boys Catholic school to straighten me out. Wow. I did. I didn't take very well. I was going to start. I went there for the rest of that year and then I ended up with that. I was going to say that didn't work obviously. That sounds, that sounds like the opposite of what should have happened because if you were going to be taught how to rebuild, that was the school. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My dad didn't understand reverse psychology. That's all right. Some don't. Most of them don't. No. Yeah. They don't know. Yeah. So, so after that, after I finished that year of school, I had to go to summer school and we lived close to Miami Beach. So I ended up going to Miami Beach Senior High School and at the end of towards the end of that summer session, I was like, my dad was like, man, you have all these friends and you didn't like, you didn't have one friend at the other school. I was like, no, dude, they were a bunch of asshole like rich kid douchebag like jerks. Yeah. And I was like, if there's any way, I need to be around people that I can talk to and stuff. And so he showed some mercy and let me go. So I ended up, I ended up going to school there. And that's where I met Richard Weiss, who I ended up starting Mr. Rocca baby with many years later. Okay. All right. So I lived there until until I finished high school, I moved to Houston and started playing music there. Wow. This is kind of, I'm sorry to interrupt. This is this is turning into you moved to Houston and you were seven to 18. No, no, no, I moved to Houston. Yeah. I was like 18. Yeah. It was almost 19 when I moved there. Okay. So I think this is parts of the story are like spot on to, you know, 90% of me and the people that I know as far as like 13 years old, you couldn't say I was terrible. You couldn't say you couldn't keep me from playing rock and roll the rest of my life. At that point, it was fuck sports, fuck school, fuck everything else. I just wanted to grow up to be Gene Simmons. So yeah. Yeah. You're in Houston and, you know, we can jump off the timeline anytime, but this is going great. You're, you have disposable jobs. You're, what are you doing? Delivering pizza, flipping bird. No, I, uh, when I, when I first really isn't, I worked at a hallmarks store with a bunch of ladies that were all 70 and older. And that was amazing. Wow. Okay. Yeah. At a hallmarks store in the mall. How so? How was that amazing? Uh, what was this surrealness of the whole thing? Like being their little whipping boy boxes filled with cards and filled with paper are so heavy that I ended up getting a hernia. And dude, check this out. This is amazing. I got laid off, but it was like in the, in between you have like, okay, so in the, in the greeting card industry back when the hallmarks stores really meant something like from October until Valentine's Day. I mean, that shit is nuts, man. You're going holiday to holiday, like taking down the whole window display every month and putting up a new one. It sounds crazy. Like Thanksgiving, Halloween, Christmas, New Year's, uh, Valentine's Day. Yeah. So I had to put all this, all the everything from all of the holidays away the day after Valentine's Day. Oh, and so one of the, the manager lady kept on coming up to me and going like, did you already put the last box up there? And I was like, no, not yet. I've got about five more. She come back and like, you can put the last one up. Finally. I'm like, yeah, I put the last one up. She's like, all right, we're going to have to let you go. He waited for me and put all the fuck in his boxes to wait before she fired me. It was amazing. And then, and then I went to work at Whole Foods where I ended up working there for five years. That's gangster here and working there. That's gangster of her. Like gangster, 75 year old Harmark lady. Right. Right. Wow. Trippy man. Yeah. Well, so it sounds, it sounds like that what may, may, I mean, maybe you secretly loved it. I don't know, but you know, I had these, so not making it be about me disposable jobs or what the musician has so they can just make it to the next dinner or gig or rent or whatever. And it's not, if you're not going to let me off for my gig this weekend, I quit because I'll just work at the Taco Bell next door. Right. It doesn't matter to me. Yeah. So what was the thing that you guys said in Bobby's interview, the thing you do between John, what is it like the in between playing gigs that he would start doing like tech stuff? Oh, Bobby Rock. Bobby Rock. Yeah. God, I don't know. Who knows? I know it's hard to remember your own show, but I mean, between things, you're in between things. Yeah. It's like you're in between things. That's exactly right. You know who I learned that from? I learned that from Dino Lee. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I learned that from Dino Lee because me and Bobby, both speaking of Bobby, both worked for Mr. Fabulous for a few years, which is Dino Lee, right? Yeah. Yeah. And he would ask me questions about, "Aren't you some kind of hot shot, you know, some kind of don't you got somewhere you need to be because I need to schedule some dudes for my gigs coming up next month?" And I go, "No, I need the money, man, because he paid well." Yeah. And it was just lights and PA and cartage and shit and set up and tear down, you know. Yeah. And that was shit. I got that hat with one eye open. So, and Bobby too, and all of our friends, we drug as many people as we could into that gig and it was fun. And Dino's great because he's just a wild man, you know. But he would call that, "Oh, I get it. You're just in between things." Yeah. You're waiting for your next publishing check, you know, it's only going to be 10 bucks, you know. Yeah. Or whatever. So, Johnny, when you set up shop in Austin, so to speak, how long until you're sort of making the rounds and becoming a regular on the club circuit here? Because it's been a long time. I was in a band, I was in a band of Houston that before I moved back here. Like in '89 and '90, that was called Pan Jandrum. And it was also with Richard Wise, who I did Mr. Rocket Baby with. He had moved to Houston and then we started this kind of like funk band. And it did well. We did really, really well. We were touring and like we sell out Fitzgeralds. We were managed by Fitzgeralds. Do you know that club in Houston? Yeah. It was around. They basically started a management company for us and what they would do is there was a lot of people doing that then. It seemed like there was a band called Ten Hand in Dallas who was managed by this guy that had something to do with club data. And so they would do like show trades and whatnot. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, it was actually cool and it helped out a lot. And I learned a lot about kind of how the inside, like learning the music business with the management that's inside of a club, so you literally see the spreadsheets at the end of the night. You don't really get to, like as a musician, nobody sits down and teaches you that shit. You know what I mean? Right. So learning that shit early on, I kind of understood what my role was in the whole grand scheme of the club at the show at night. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like there's a certain role you play. So not everybody in every band that knows how to wear that hat either. So they just don't. Oh, I just play bass or I'm just a drummer or whatever. And it takes a certain kind of head to even want that job, quote, job, you know, when you're in a band. It's part of management. It really is learning how to manage things and keep a cool head and be a bean counter, if you will. Right shit down. Yeah. Yeah. So that there is bean county, like it's not like you show up, play a gig and like, oh, the club didn't promote the show or didn't get paid or whatever. You know, like you get a sense of like when someone starts complaining, you're like, well, that's not really what what happened here, buddy. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you guys were saying how to, I moved to Austin. I, that band broke up after that publishing thing kind of went south and then, and then I wanted to move here. And so Hallman, uh, Mark, uh, let me live at the Congress house. Wow. And yeah. So I lived at the Congress house for a couple of years, so like 91 to 93, uh, how late did the sessions go as late as they needed to? There was no, and you were, you were, you were probably soaking up knowledge. Oh, totally. A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. I was living in a record. Yeah. There's people there. There's, you know, Mark Andes was always there. Grissom was always there. Yeah. David Halle made a record there during that time. Uh, Ian Matthews was doing a lot of records. They're just a lot of really great music people and it's, it's, it's funny because when I was, when I was a 14, we would come up, we lived in the woodland and we'd come up to visit for like the weekend and, uh, and Hallman would take me with him to his gigs. You know, uh, you'd just take me along to, he had a cover band at the time. And I would go to his brother and a couple of other cool dudes. And all these dudes, like before the Congress House was a recording studio, it, it, it was a rehearsal place like they had cutting room was a place where people rehearsed and maybe someone would bring an A track reel to reel and record their demos and stuff there. But it wasn't a fully functioning recording studio. What it was, was it was like a flop house for a bunch of musicians. So when I went there when I was 14 years old and I saw all these dudes wake up at like in the afternoon and like come out and talk about their gig from the night before having coffee and smoke, I was just like, fuck, this is the life, dude. Like these guys are living the life, like it was amazing. And my dream was to live in the Congress. I was like, fucking live there for a couple of years. Wow. I mean, there were, you know, there were days where you'd be up like night, late drinking and then have to go to work a whole food, like, you know, nine in the morning and you get home and there's some dude who they decided the amp sounds best in that crevice right outside of your bedroom door. So you're just hearing some dude playing at the same fucking guitar solo, like for three hours. There were those downfalls, but otherwise it was unbelievable, like it was unbelievable. Yeah. That was kind of the answer I was fishing for that because it's, you know, you, you think, oh, yeah, I get to live in a recording studio and I'm a young person, but when you're, when you feel like shit and you have to hear the same guitar solo for three hours, that's torture. Yeah. Even if it's Eddie Van Halen, I don't care. There was, it was another aspect in say, perhaps you had a young lady, uh, stay over and yeah, dig it up and their walkers came through the living with like Mark Hallman and Bradley cop and it's like fucking David Chris. You never really liked that. You have a copy? He had a pre we'll text it or something. You need to preen up. Look, you need to read this before you enter. Yeah. When you wake up in the morning, there are going to be some grown, grown men, child's outside of this door having coffee. They're going to look at you funny and judge you in a way, but just accept it. Yeah. They're like, all right, Johnny. Right. So, yeah, wow, it was, it was amazing. Well, to be, to be 1920. Am I right? 1920. I moved here when I was 20. Yeah. No, I was 22 when I moved here. Okay. All right. Yeah. And that was in that was in mid 80s. No, no. That was the first time I moved here and I was a kid within the mid 80s. This is 1991. Okay. 1991. Right on. Okay. Yeah. I got here in 95 and I remember, you know, your name was all over the place as far as like, yeah, because I was scouring the Austin Chronicle, trying to figure out which gigs I'm going to this weekend or this, I mean, it's Austin. So every night of the week, there's something, you know, and I remember seeing you and your bands or something you were affiliated with just seemed to be playing all the time. And you always had, you were, you were very well established and you had good gigs. I mean, you were doing like the steamboats and, you know, you weren't doing all the punk rock hellholes. Right. Right. I kind of are without even knowing you or knowing your music, I had this perception that, you know, you were one of the more successful bands on the circuit at that time. Yeah. Johnny's no dummy. Johnny's no dummy. He made sure that the gigs that he got, they room had a PA in it. Yeah. I mean, I've said this to people before a lot like there was a, the guys that wrote the, oh, God, now I'm trying to blank the guys that wrote the book about the indie punk scene that came out here. You know, I'm talking about. Yeah, I do, but I can't remember the name of the blank on the name of the book, but it's funny because my, my thing with like hole in the wall versus a lot of other places versus steamboat was like I was thinking, I was always thinking of showcasing. I was always thinking of getting a record deal, just thinking of coming like taking over the world, not just, you know, being a part, I wanted to be part of a scene, but I also wanted to be a fucking bono. You know what I mean? Yeah. I didn't want to, I didn't want to be actually fucking bono, but I wanted to be bono. Right. So whatever it takes, you know, whatever it takes, I remember going to all the different places and seeing steamboat and going like, holy shit, man, this is like every, anybody on that stage, like, you know, anybody looks like a, my grandma going on a stage looks like a rock star. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Has amazing and Tel Aviv lights and like, you know, this rad sound system, it was like, I mean, front room of the whole Moab had some, some outer body experiences playing music on that stage, but that, that someone wasn't going to walk in there and see a guy they wanted to give a million dollars to, to be the next guy. You know what I mean? Yeah. In your early years, did you, did you build your own light show and put on shows just in the VF, you know, places that already had it. Right. That's what I was saying. And in my world, in my world, it was, we did that. We made our own light show in our own flash pots and pyro bombs and we stole floodlights from the, from the putt putt when they would shut down, they had all the colored lights. I think I just confessed on tape that, that, that I, I'm a thief, I stole colored floodlights from the Peter Pan golf is going to say Peter Pan is going to knock on your door and made, made, made light show for, for watchtower shows and played gigs in people's backyards on the weekend, you know, high school keg parties and shit, it was, it was a cross between almost famous and, and fucking, uh, you know, uh, days and confused. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and heavy metal parking lot if you're people who know what that is. So yeah, I love that movie. Yeah. Um, speaking of watchtower real quick, uh, your interview with Billy was fantastic. Whatever, whatever. Like any time Billy has to be like, I had a good time doing that, like he was so guilt ridden. That did so much. Yeah. But, you know, I feel like he's, you know, I've known him since he was even more gentle and child like than he is, but he was trying to figure himself out. I mean, I met him when he was 16 years old. So it's kind of this, it's interesting to see him be seat to see some of the same qualities than him now that are more, uh, we're pronounced now than they were. Yeah, they're, they're, they're brighter and he's not, he's not holding them back and trying to cover them up by either a trend or, uh, miss spent youth with mixed emotions because he's, you're still a child, even though you're 16, you're still a child and you don't know, you know, better than should I step in the cat shit to just piss people off or should I step around it and be a good boy? You know, and I think that that's what heavy metal is for ultimately is for you to figure out your whole, you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's, it's drama and emotion and when you're a young person, I think that it's a good vehicle. Anyway, the, uh, the interview with Billy was, um, thank you for saying that. Again, I quickly tell you, I got to tell you this one thing really fast, but yeah, it's so funny. Um, okay. So watching you, so watching you tell Billy how Watchtower has affected other people. And it's just inability to get his head around it was hilarious, but you know, my first real experience with Watchtower or like knowing what Watchtower was was, I, uh, I guess when we started Mr. Rocket, baby, Brian Keeling lived with Billy, like he lived with Billy in this guy that played, uh, uh, base with extreme heat. It was awesome guy. I can't remember his name right now. Anyway, so, uh, Was that Travis Heights? Were they living in Travis? Travis Heights. Yeah. I've been to that house. You know, I'm talking about. Yeah. Okay. So, um, at that point, I was transitioning. I was in Mr. Rocket, baby. I was transitioning from fender amps to martial lamps at Billy's, at Billy's insistence. Okay. Like here, you're going to love this. You got to do this stuff. So, uh, he was like, before your show, uh, we had a weekly show. Come by and pick it up to pick up my, my head, my amp and, and take it to sound check. So Richard Weiss, the guy that was a Mr. Rocket, baby, the guy from Miami, his family adopted a couple of kids that were born in Columbia. All right. So one of, one of, one of their adopted kids, the adopted son, his friend from Columbia came to Miami and they came to Austin to visit Richard and come see Mr. Rocket, baby, and the whole thing. So part of their thing was running around running errands with us. And so we're like, Hey, we got to stop up at our friend Billy's house and pick up an amp. So like cool. So this kid from Columbia, Billy opens the door and this kid turns bright red and starts like shaking. And we go in and Billy's like, yeah, hang on. I'll go grab that. He goes into another room. The kid turns around with full on fucking tears in his eyes and goes, he's that Billy went from West Tower. And we're like, what? And he's like, he's that Billy way from West Tower. Yeah. Dude, the kid was fucking, he couldn't believe that we went to go pick up an amp and it was the fucking dude from Watchtower that opened the door. Yeah. He was, he was physically shaken by the experience. It was unbelievable. I couldn't stop laughing. And I was like, Billy, just some weird guy that is really nice and will lend you all of his stuff. You know, how does this kid, this is a trip because the kid is from Columbia and how old is this kid? He was probably, okay, so this is probably 1993. So I was, I was 24, 25 years old and this kid was probably five years younger than me. Okay. He's 19, 20 years old and he's from Columbia and he recognizes and know full well who Billy White from Watchtower. You knew exactly who Billy White was when he saw him. Wow. That is crazy. Yeah. The power of the underground. Yeah. Unbelievable. Like the kid, he just couldn't believe it. We went to the art to watch like six to nine rehearsals so that he could see Billy play. Wow. He was bummed. He was way more into Watchtower than what Billy started doing later on. Right. Little blown away. Two very different things. He wanted to hear Thrash Metal and he got blues. Yeah. Exactly. People love the Billy White episode. I mean, obviously, you know, Jason, you know, kind of lured him into doing that. And it was interesting to hear all the feedback and see all the feedback because as you know, Billy doesn't, you know, he kind of keeps to himself and he's not doing a million interviews and he doesn't do a lot of press and he almost kind of downplays his accolades, you know? Yeah. So for him to make an appearance in actually, it was like a Bigfoot sighting. Everybody was like, oh my God, it's Billy White, you know, so yeah, it turned out really well. It was a well received episode. And oddly enough, my son who is 16 is an aspiring musician. He plays a bunch of instruments, but mainly drums and the bass player that he jams with is Billy White's nephew. Cash. Yeah. His name is Cash. There's no end in these people. He comes over to my house one day to jam with my son and he goes, you had my uncle on your podcast and I'm like, what, huh? And I said, who's your uncle? And he said, Billy White. And I thought, what? Your uncle is Billy. So then I texted Jason. I said, there's this kid over here who's a bass player, he's jamming with my son and he goes, oh, yeah, cash, you know, he knew exactly who he was. Is that Jason White's son? Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, my son and cash white jam all the time. But cash is like 18 years old now. Damn. We're so old now, man. Yeah. That era that Billy and I became really close, like even after Mr. Rocket Baby, he really encouraged me to not get another guitar player and to be the only guitar player, which is really discouraging because we were doing shows together and then he's a guy that, like, I'm not like a guy that wants to hear and then list guitar solo forever, but he's a guy that, like, you could play a 10-minute guitar solo and take it places where you never lost interest, never, you know, looked at your watch or rolled your eyes or something. Just such an amazing, just such a musical human being. It's funny when he was talking about those chord things. I had this fucking memory about it and on your show, he was talking about doing these weird expansive chords, but I remember one time, like being like, what, because I was trying to figure out one of his songs and I was like, I can't, I can't figure out where this goes. It sounds like it's G when I'm playing it, but then when I watch you play, you're playing some insane thing and it was a G. It was just a G. It was just like this kind, it was like a fucking, like, the professional guy's version of G, not like the cowboy guy. Yeah, you've never seen that hand position before, right? Even though it's something you can tell you a million times. Right, right, right. Yeah. It's like, there was a thing we used to talk about all of that guy, Dean Delayo from Stone Temple Pilots. He was like, that's a guy that, like, his idea of what a chord is, is so unbelievable. Like, he's one of my favorite chord people of all time. Pete Townsend, Pete Townsend's kind of like that too. Yep. Huge sounding chords. Yeah. So, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do really. I love Billy White. It's okay. Yeah. Everyone does and the key to you bringing it up and me putting him on the spot in the hot seat, you know, how do you feel about touching people's lives and the way that you did through your crazy heavy metal guitar playing and creation and logos and artwork and language that is just universal and you don't, you seem to have forgotten or realized or it's not that important to you when I bring it up. He just looked nervous, you know? It's kind of like, it's kind of like rolling over in the morning and your partner for the very first time saying, I love you. Yeah. Exactly. You don't know how to react. You don't think, ah, ah, run away, you know, kind of a thing. Yeah. And I wouldn't try to make him uncomfortable. I needed him, I needed him to realize that that's not going away just because he, he found essence of life to be his number one priority in health and health of body and spirit and mind, which is incredible. Uh, he's leveled up on what I feel like music does. He leveled up on the whole idea of what we're supposed to be doing here. Yeah. Not just a fellowship of, you know, headbangers in the front row or everyone singing along around a fire or what it's tribal and his thing is, yeah. So when I brought it down to grassroots, he was like, Oh, yeah, oh, shit, you know. Yeah. Well, I know he did, he, he did my show a long time ago. But I remember telling him that, um, that that, right, really what ended up happening with him, uh, choosing to live the life that he did was like show business and people missed out on a real authentic artists. You know what I mean? Like there's Billy White, no matter what he's doing is a 100% authentic, uh, and himself. Yeah. In that moment, one of those guys, it's motivated by the, the discipline and the art form and not all the superfluous stuff that comes along with it, not the start. I'm not the glitz, not, he's all about perfecting his instrument and learning more about it. And constantly seeking knowledge, that's what drives him as opposed to I want to be a rock star. Yeah. You know what, you know, it happens to us and that thing is we're just such big fans. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I know he's a fan too, but not at the same way that we are. Right. Well, some of the whole thing, like I love show business. I love, I love, I love those Bobby Rock videos, the crew from Hell videos because the inside, I never, once I saw behind the curtain, I never wanted to go in front of the curtain again. I'm like, I will be back here the whole time. Like I love it. I love, even if it's not my gig, if it's not about me, I just love the inner workings of show business and being in it, like getting to the club when it still smells like the night before, it doesn't have the, the doors haven't been over. Like all of that stuff makes the hair, my arms stand up. Yeah. And this is, this is a weird turn or maybe it's not a weird turn. I actually heard Brett Michaels of poison say something similar by way he said, and I'm, of course, I'm misquoting here, but he did say something like, I love the smell of gear, amps, you know, burning tube amps, the smell of a new Marshall cabinet when you take it out of the box, you know, he's alluding to stuff like that. I love the smell of equipment, dirty microphone smell when there's the, it's, he, he talked about it like it was a bit euphoric, like it just took him to a place. It could be grandma's cookies or apple pie and you smell someone else's kitchen and you go, this smells like my grandma's house. You know, it's the same part of the brain and songs are like that colors can be like that. So. Yeah. Rock and roll has a smell. Yes. It does. Not for everyone, but it has many smells. So you, you know, you, you were the, now the other thing I remember about you again from a distance when I arrived in Austin is it wasn't too long after I was here. I recognized you as sort of an established artist on the club circuit and whatnot. And then the thing that I remember was you were being courted by Lars Ulrich from Metallica. So tell, which band, which this is your project called Gaudi, right? This is your self-being band. So yeah. After your various other bands, your next and latest project at the time was just called Gaudi and you got the attention of Lars somehow. Yeah. How did that all happen? It took a lot of work. And when was it? That was in 1997, I met this guy who worked at Hamstein. Remember that publishing company? Of course. Yeah. Okay. So he worked at Hamstein, but like in the tape room, remember in the basement, they had that room where they dubbed cassettes and CDs and stuff. Okay. Yeah. So he was the guy that ran that tape dubbing room. Do you remember the guy's name? Of course. He was still one of my very close friends, Martin Hanlon. You know him. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So my favorite thing about Martin was he would say, he would say these words and they were just like, do you like breakfast? And it wouldn't sound like do you like breakfast, like it was like, do you like Pardis head? You know what I'm saying? Are you a fan of Portis head? The band Portis head? Do you like Pardis head? Yeah. So I remember Martin, he was a lot of fun. Great guy. So, so he took an interest in, in my songs and in me and Ainar, what we were, what we were trying to do. And he was like, man, you're kind of, it seems like you guys have gotten off the track and you're just like, you become like a three set bar band trying to make a living, playing music. And, you know, you end up playing like the Joker by Steve Miller instead of like focusing on writing the best songs you possibly can. You're out like two buffoons, you know, playing, you know, at the Cantina, Santa Fe and Corpus, you know, and just not really doing the thing that you should be doing to take steps forward in a career. And he was right. And so we just kind of like, we had to talk with our drummer at the time, he did not want to commit to working, you know what I mean? Like, hey, we're going to stop playing a lot of gigs and we're just going to rehearse every day and we're going to try and do this thing. So through his connections at Hamstein, Martin got us and me and Aynar in the studio to Aynar Peterson is a dude that I was, he joined when he was a Mr. Rocket baby, but he also played with you guys. Remember the awful truth, David Von Olerking, they were on Metal Blade Records, like a trio and a couple of it, like the rhythm section went on to start Galactic Cowboys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so the band that they were, so Aynar was playing with this dude, David, David and me were real close and that's how I became friends with Aynar. But they moved here from Houston and Aynar was living on my couch and the Mr. Rocket baby bass player quit and it was awesome, I had a great bass player just living on my couch. Yeah, Aynar is amazing. We've been playing together. Amazing bass player. Amazing musician. Yeah. Amazing musician. Amazing dude. But Martin was basically like, hey, you got to restructure your thing, you got to figure out who you are, write songs all the time, rehearse all the time, get a real band together that wants to, that wants to work, that wants to take, you know, significant steps forward. And you know, if you, if you do this shit, if you follow my playbook, you'll be signed in a year. And it was like a year and five months. So he was like, we did, we got, he got everybody he could get involved with. He was really close friends with, with Jim Kerr from Simple Minds and Jim and Paul Kerr at one point started a management company. And so it was like Martin, Jim and Paul Kerr. And then this other guy named Jed Malone, who was married to Jane Wiedlin from the Go Goes. Wow. It took, it took like a village of rock stars to help gaudy get noticed by the world's biggest rock star. But that's basically, it's like, like all, like, Jim, Jane, everybody was taking meetings with people on our behalf and like, it was really unbelievably flattering. And it was really cool that everybody, Martin was the drummer of this great Scottish band from the 80s called The Silencers. Jim obviously was one of my favorite singers from one of my favorite bands growing up Simple Minds and, and Jane Wiedlin on the huge Go Goes fan anyway. And then we ended up working on a lot of music together. And are still, you know, really close friends and. And you played in the Kathy's, Kathy Valentine and the blue bonnets. You played with them for a little bit. We have a band. Yeah, yeah. We still, okay. We have a, it's been on, it's not a, it's not a real band. Like every time it starts to get real, something happens and someone can't do it, but, but it's, it's the blue bonnets with me, but we do, we do do shows. It's called, it was called Johnny in the ladies room. And now it's called Lady Band Johnson. Right. I read, I read that somewhere Wikipedia and that's, I like how the, the, it's, it's deformed into this other name. Johnny, Johnny in the ladies room, I really like because it sounds like a dirty rock and roll band. Yeah, it totally does, but Kathy did all things like my name being. Of course not. Of course. I'm curious. It didn't. It makes me think of Gene Simmons and most people when you think of Gene Simmons, you go, it's, it's hit or miss. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. So, so there was a guy, there's a guy named Dan McCarryl who ended up being like the president of all the music, but he was a drummer that played with like, played with Amyman, Michael Penn and these kinds of people and he was, he was getting tired of the hustle of being a side guy in LA and trying to make ends meet and like, you have a great gig and your life is great. And then, you know, that band decides not to tour for three years and you're fucked. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. So he wanted to find some kind of job. So he tried to get a job in A&R at a publishing company and there was another Scottish guy, there was a guy, Kenny McPherson at Warner Chapel, who, who basically was like, if you want to be an A&R guy, here's a box of tapes. Go home and listen to these and tell me which three bands you would sign and he came back and we were one of the bands and he was like, that's a band I really like. And so there was no room for him at Warner Chapel at the time, but then this guy, Tim Duffy and he were friends and he was like, Hey, Lars Ulrich starting a record label. And why don't you be the A&R guy of the record label? And he was like, okay. And then he met with Lars and Lars was like, what, what would, you know, do you have anything that you would want to bring to the table? And it was our, it was just our cassette and Lars was like, I like these guys. And so that was it. So were you officially signed to Lars' label? I was. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We had a record that came out on there. Okay. What's the title of the album? The album is called Peep Show. All right. Right. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So did you, in the course of all this business and dealing with Lars' record label, did you ever have a sit down face to face with Lars and get sort of good news? I took the night at his house and jam, like, yeah, we were friends. We talked on the phone every day for a while. And at one point, we parted ways with Martin, like, I don't know if you guys know what happened with us. We went to Los Angeles, like, full fucking thing, recorded at Sunset Sound, and David Birlwald had a studio out there called the Palindrome, and we had that for a while. We worked with Fred Marr, who had done Mapi Street, girlfriend, and Lou Reed, New York, and stuff like that. We were so blown, you know, doing the whole, like, the thing, when you get a record deal, you go to LA, you make this record, you work in all the best places with all the best people. And then when it was time to mix it, like after the first week of mixing, we were all kind of, like, listening to the first couple songs in our apartment at the Oakwood in LA. And just, like, man, I don't really, do you guys like this? No, like, no, this is just not very good. And then Lars called on that Sunday, and he was like, hey, have you guys been listening to this? Like, yeah, like, I don't like the direction this took. And we're like, no, neither do we. Yeah. Wow. So there was a time of much turmoil. We fired Martin. We fired the team that was producing the record. We came back. I cried in front of Snoop Dogg, who took pity on me. Wow. And, oh, let me tell you this, you guys friends with Danny Crooks? Yes, I am. I don't know them personally, but I know of them, of course. So you used to go to Steam, but you know when you'd hug Danny, there were two things. He smelled like weed, really good weed and some kind of cologne that he was into. That's right. When we hugged Snoop for the first time, Anar and I walked away and we looked at each other. We were like, he's not like Danny Lixen, he's in the same cologne as Danny. Wow. It was so weird. Anyway, so we fired all those guys and then, and then there was a whole weird time where they were taking our stuff to all these different mixing guys and they were like, no, we hate this. We would rather mix their demos and all that. It was, it was really, it was freaky and, and, and everything. We were hanging on by a thread. Like, Electra did not want to spend any more money on this band for this guy's vanity label. Right. But at the time, Metallica themselves, this is a fucking weirdest fact. In 1998, when we signed our label, when I assume it was 1999 too, Metallica made up for one quarter of all of the income that Electra records. And I'm talking about the fucking doors, the Eagles, like Tracy Chapman had a hit at the time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're Electra records and Metallica in the late nineties was literally responsible for one quarter of their income. Wow. Well, they had the catalog and they had the black album, which is like a, it's like dark side of the moon or something. They had Motley crew too, which wasn't chump change. Right. At that time. And I, I want to say also that they were, they were also, but I mean, the thing about, about Metallica too, was people were buying those records. I mean, those, those, those records of load reload, you know, you know, relay load, whatever else they put out. My load and your load. My load. Everyone's load. Load. That's the load. Wide load. Those records sold like crazy. And I think at that, Hey, we lost audio. We lost your audio. There you are. Are you back? Sorry. There he is. You're back. You're back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I, I believe they were the most played a band on American radio at that time. It was, it was a, it was a heavy, heavy time. And so, uh, I would like to, I would like to say that I really would hope and pray that it would be because at the time they had the catalog and not those okay Metallica records that you just mentioned load and reload. Well, it was a combination because even though reloads sold like gang, they sold like crazy. Yeah. And they did and they were a video band. By that point, they were a video band like they had a video for all of those singles. And there was a lot of singles between those two records because records were probably done as almost like a double album. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you said you, you said you spent the night at Lars's house. This is house like back then, what was that experience like? Was awesome. Yeah. I mean, like, uh, it's interesting because there's a, I guess people know it now, but back then there was no, there was, you, you didn't realize you were going to go to this guy's house. He's going to have like Basquiat on the wall and like, you know, I'm a huge art fan. Basquiat's my favorite artist. He had a couple of them. I mean, like, I mean, like, but the guy could be like a art professor or some shit. Like the guy, I mean, he comes as dad, uh, Torbin was an amazing artist who did all this crazy fucking shit with tennis balls and stuff. Oh, I never knew that. Yeah. Yeah. He just, he kind of came up with the largest like Godfathers Dexter Gordon, the jazz guy. Wow. Did you guys know that? No. Yeah. There's like a whole weird, like you think of them as like, you know, from the streets guy, but he's a, he's a European, you know, he's got a. Yeah. I was talking to somebody the other day, I don't need to, I don't need or want to really derail this, but it's something I like to get off my chest to just put in perspective to. And I'm not dogging anybody that has this type of education because obviously Lars is educated. A lot of people don't think because there's people out there that don't necessarily like his drumming and it's like, what the fuck are you worried about his drumming for? He's a composer. He's the one that he's the reason that Metallica is Metallica. No, I can talk great stuff about Lars all day. I even for one like his drumming because what else are you going to play to those riffs? What else are you going to play to that? Yes. Anyway, okay. So I like his drumming in Metallica. Yes. Me too. It seems to have been some sort of like we talked about, you worked at the Hallmark store in the mall. What did Lars do? See what I'm saying? Yeah. He was the drummer of Metallica from the time he was like, what, 16 or 17, right? Yeah, 17, 17, but, but I'm saying, how did they, when they decide to go get Cliff Burton and move to move to, you know, the North, Northern California, to the Bay Area, what are they, how were they paying rent? They don't go start a cover band and play it down town. Say what? I'm sure Torbin gave them that Lars's dad gave him money. Okay. I've never met a more supportive dad. But you understand what I'm saying? I'm just saying the flipping burger thing is out the window. That's not. No, he didn't flip burgers. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I have a vacation and a famous tennis star dad who obviously has roots, European roots through art and sport and oh my God, whatever else is the village that helped build Metallica. Help build Metallica. Yeah. Oh, 100%. Yeah. I think that that's fucking beautiful and amazing. Oh, yeah. And, and for those, those people who I wouldn't even call that silver spoon either. No, not at all. I wouldn't call that silver spoon because there's a lot of bands that have that one rich kid in it where just come over to my house. I have all the equipment. I have the best drum kit. I have Marshall stacks for, you know, I sleep on Marshall stacks, you know, and, and I knew some kids like that, but they just weren't very good. No. So this, this conversation before I forget this, Jason. No, let's get ID reeled it anyway. I'm sorry. But have perspective on the shit that you're talking about and you know, Lars is house and you're going, dude, art is fucking basket and fucking back. Yeah. I mean, he also had a neon sign that said drugs, I mean, hang up on his bar. So, I mean, yeah, that's the thing about him that I thought was cool is that he was able to cover all the pieces, you know what I mean, like, yeah, the finest, the finest point and, you know, whatever else he's going to find out. So at that point, when, uh, when everyone realized that this record, this version of this album wasn't going to go, that was when Lars, uh, it was me and Jimmy, our guitar player that went out to, to San Francisco to be his place and stayed with him in Tiberone. And so that wasn't in Marin County. I might be in Marin County. It's just part of San Francisco. It's like Northern. It's. Yeah. I don't know exactly all of that work. I've stayed at, uh, he's not there anymore. Jason Neustad's house for a night or two out there and that was, I think that was in Marin County. Was it? I don't even know if any of those guys are out there anymore. I don't think, I don't think they're out there. So did, did Lars drop the bomb on you at his house or, or, yeah, as far as well, it was, it was, it was like, look, I'll fly you guys out here. Let's hang out. Let's just spend a weekend, like hanging out. Let's not try and fix this on a phone conversation and stuff. You know, that's not, this, there's a lot at stake and Electra wants me to drop you. And I don't want to drop you, but let's hang out and get drunk and do drugs and figure it out. Right. You know what I mean? Right. So, uh, so we did, we spent a couple of days at his house and, you know, at one point he just said, like, look, nobody wants anything to do with this record. Uh, I have guys that said they'd rather mix your demos because they like those more because there's a life to it. What would you guys, what would, in a dream world, if you had your choice to do anything you want, what would you do? And we were like, we, we just want to go home. We don't, but we know how to make records with Mike McCarthy. We record one whole song a day, we don't spend three weeks on drums, like, where there's a way to keep us engaged and keep us locked into this thing and that we know how to do that. Like, we're all short attention span kids. We can't, we can't, I can't spend two weeks or three weeks on drums for like, I just can't, like, I, I forget what the fucking song sounds like. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right. So, we, we had worked with Mike at that Hamstein studio enough where we were recording. We got to a point where we could record, we could record two songs a day. Like we were, we were at, we were fucking fast and really good and everyone, everyone knew how to work. Like, not we were better than anybody else, but together, we knew how to do this shit. You know what I mean? And for listeners and people watching, Mike McCarthy is an ace engineer, producer, sort of like, a helper of all sorts for people who have songs and, and need help putting them together in the studio, works with Fastball and everybody. Godzilla Motor Company. Yeah. Yeah. Here's that. That's where I was going earlier. Okay. The time that Johnny has the attention of Lars, I thought I remember, because I think I wrote about it in some capacity that, that there was, there was some buzz going around town that maybe Lars was interested in Godzilla Motor Company or you had a chance to slip in the demo or something like, I remember that. Was there something? Something? No, I, I do, I do, I do, I know Jason, you don't remember, I do, I do remember people saying, thinking that how funny it was that, that Lars was coming to see us when he was actually going to see Godzilla Motor Company. Interesting. I, I remember people saying that to me, like, dude, I remember, I remember, I remember, uh, I remember going to Steamboat one night and some guy was giving me like a guy that was my buddy. I can't even remember exactly who it was. There's another musician guy and he was like giving me this fucking look like, I, and I was like, Hey, what's up, man? I'm seeing you. I was like, yeah, I heard you fired your whole band because Lars told you to and like, I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, they're on their way here. Like we're all hanging out tonight, like, it was very, there was a lot of that stuff that happened back then that was really odd and kind of uncomfortable in a way where you're like, stop thinking about me. Yeah. Like just ask me a question. I'll tell you what happened. Yeah. I know all about it. Yeah. So that kind of stuff, I know all of Jason, Jason, Jason, you know, you don't remember any sort of any connection or any interest from Lars, I don't remember even having the opportunity to peddle GMC to Lars, but I mean, Mike McCarthy was so into GMC, I wouldn't surprise me if he would have been in the room with all you guys, Johnny, and then like walk up to Lars and go, Hey, check out Jason McMaster, you know what I mean, because he loved it. He loved the material, but I think it was just a bunch of jabber jaw. I don't think there was any solidity or, you know, I don't think that there was anything solid going on. Right. I think we gave him, I'd not do not take credit away from Mike. I think we gave it to him to be honest. Oh, good. Yeah. And I, I'll admit, I gave it to Jason Neustad. I had a cassette tape, actually, that I went and saw Metallica at the Franco Run Center and gave him a cassette, gave, had the opportunity to fly Jason a cassette tape and, and that's what spawned. Hey, you should come out to my house. I'm writing some songs with some friends. Well, barbecue. And it was one of those that no, no fruit on the tree came of it, but I'm laughing because I went and saw Neustad when he had his van echo brain. Yeah. And they played at the building that became Steamboat steamboat, Steamboat moved away from car. La Bear. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. After it left 6th Street and it went to Riverside. La Bear. Right. Yeah. That was La Bear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I went out and I went to sound check hoping to meet Neustad because I actually worked in the, at the Statesman, which was the building right next door. So I wandered over there about four o'clock, you know, whenever I think sound check might be. And sure enough, there's Neustad out in the parking lot. And I knew I was going to try and do this. And at the time Jason had, I think the guilty pleasure record, the broken teeth guilty pleasure record had just come out. So I be in the broken teeth champion went over there with a handful of CDs and I met Neustad and I said, Hey, this is my buddy's band. And you probably know him, Jason McMaster, he goes, Oh, yeah. Of course. And I said, he's got this new projects called broken teeth. And he looked at the CDs and he goes, Well, the name's a lot better than his last band. I remember he made some crack about Godzilla motor company being like too much of a mouthful or something. He liked broken teeth. Oh, the band name. Yeah. Yeah. The band name. No, I wasn't, I wasn't knocking the music. He was talking about the name itself. But he thought he thought broken teeth just had more punch or something. I only met him a couple of times. Yeah. I would say that I feel like he was the only guy that I would, I would outside the large that I'd really be friends with in that band. He's a really nice couple of times I met him. Oh, yeah. Really nice. Yeah. He's he's a kind gentleman. You can hang with a dude. He's a dude you can hang with. Yeah, for sure. He's in Florida now, but so anyway, he's, you're at Lars's house and he's, he was saying, this is not working. You want to go home? Yeah, we were like, we'd rather record this record at home. And Austin and just kind of have control of and kind of do it our way because you know what we can deliver and he let us, like it took, it took, he had to convince some people with the money that were, you know, but he, he, he was like, I think, I think they'll do better on their own, like they wasted a couple hundred grand when they had total supervision. So let's just let them be alone and stuff like you, we did it for a fraction of the budget. That was the other thing was like, I didn't like, like a lot of the reason why we left the label was because of budgets. Like I couldn't, I couldn't double the way our contract was your, yours probably was to is your, your, your, your budgets double with each record you make. Right. And we doubled our first one on our own. And so that doubling from there was like, holy fuck, like, you know, our lawyer, while Pergenius was like, you guys are going to have to sell like 1.6 million records to break even. But, but it's, you make another record with this label. It's so normal to go over budget. I don't think a lot of people realize that. And that's been happening in the record business forever, unless it's controlled. You know, all right. What's your band name? Black Sabbath. Three days to make your first record ready, go tapes rolling and they just play a live and overdub and they're done. Right. Well, then it's not like that. Independent label. Like if you were on metal blade, they weren't giving you endless like, Electra, there's no, nobody, nobody was watching. There was, there was this thing that someone was like, how in the fuck did you guys get this in your recording budget? One of them was you either got like a food budget or I can't remember that there was, there was a choice you got, you either got the money for the food or the food or something. Yeah. Like a, like a, like an allowance, you got like a, yep, per diems. And then we got the somehow we ended up with a food budget and per diems. And everyone that was just like, how the fuck did you do this? We're like, we don't even know. I don't know. Maybe we check both boxes without knowing. I don't know. Yeah. You don't know. Maybe your lawyer had something to do with it. So did you, did the record come out on, did the record come out on Electra or did it come out on Lars's sort of, it came on, on Lars's imprint under Electra, TMT, the music company. Same thing. Same thing. It's called the music company. To the music company. Yeah. Yeah. It was originally going to be called GAC Incorporated, like the company, like our checks were all from GAC Incorporated. Wow. It was the name of his company, but I think Electra was like, dude, we can't have a shouldn't they? They can't have like below records. Come on, dude. Right. Right. Yeah. The water productions. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Wow. Yeah. And it was during that weekend. No, me and Jimmy jammed with him. Like Jimmy and I traded off basing guitar. He had a jam room. Cool. I tried to play ping pong against him when I was wasted and he served twice. And then he put the shit down and started walking out and I was like, where are you going? And he was like, this is the waste of my time. He made me laugh a lot like, you know, I mean, he's just funny. Like he had the way the way he is is funny. You know what I mean? Like the whole like, dude, fucking Johnny, Johnny Goud. How do you, what am I going to fucking do now? Like that whole thing that's just funny to me. Yeah. Yeah. He is a bit of a cartoon character, even though not intentional. Yeah. Yeah. His mannerisms are. Yeah. It's like, just like you did that impersonation. His personality and his manners lend themselves to that. Well, yeah. So you go home and you're and you're basically re-recording fluffing the songs that were on the demo, plus your extra tunes to fill out the record. I get it. Do you, do you, it's almost like you already admitted. I just want to want it to be like blurted out that, that a lot of the, the things that were happening were distractions to where and how you needed the record to go and sound. Yeah. And so when you're at home, those distractions go away. Oddly enough. Yeah. Cause normally people go away to not have the distractions. But the real thing was, is that, you know, I had had a Ford track since I was like 16. I lived at the Congress house. I, I had comfort in the studio and being part of the thing, working with Mike McCarthy. When you go like, Hey, can you do this to the, the base when the chorus comes? And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. You show me. Right. Mike McCarthy moves his roles, his chair out of the way. He goes, you do it. Right. Let me see. It's not in a shitty way, but like in a, if you have a vibe and you, you're, you have an idea. Do it. That's right. And here you hold the paintbrush. Yeah. And so in LA with all of these professional fucking dudes, like we would just sit in a, in a, I would go cut a basic, like a, a basic where they're just keeping the drum. So I'd just be playing guitar and scratch vocal and then just go smoke, or even play video games. And that's just like, I'm way more engaged than that. And it was just kind of like there was nothing, nothing for anyone to do the whole time and really the magic of that band was that we were all much better altogether, all hands in. Everybody, like the record ended up being produced by us, Mike McCarthy. And one of the insurance things that they sent was our A&R guy moved here for six weeks while we recorded just to make sure that she didn't go off the rails again. Right. And we had, we had to, every day at the end of the day, someone had to go FedEx the day's work to Lars. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't like they were like, oh, just let them go free. They kept a very close eye. Yeah. I, I'm familiar with that, uh, when, when the toys were still on Columbia, we were doing that. We were, you know, done with all the big tours and we're, we're writing, uh, uh, what would be a third record, right? Right. And, and it's the same thing, but we're all at home. There's no distractions. We're just writing a record. We're not recording the record. We're writing a record and, um, and we must have written 80 fucking songs and, but I remember well, it was, you know, all right, well, here's a copy for management and they would make copies and send them to the label and it was just FedEx every two weeks at least. Here's four more songs. Here's six more songs. Here's three more songs until we just ultimately said, Hey, can, can you, can we just fuck off? Yeah. You know what I mean? Just to be let go because it was, yeah, it was a similar situation. Yeah. Yeah. The one, the one stupid thing that, that, that we both did leaving is that if they drop you, there's a chunk of money. Like when capital dropped, uh, 16 to luck, that's up, Frenchie has the bubble. You know what I mean? Like, you get a big chunk of money and you can go do something with it. But yeah, you know, I mean, our, we thought we, our impression and just kind of our initial conversations with Lars were like kind of, we would like to follow in the Metallica sort of career path of, of just get out there and, and get fans and make a couple records. And then by the time your third or fourth record comes out, you can have a hit. But that wasn't the time of the music industry was dealing in such giant numbers and so many records were being sold. Right. We had the amazing fortune, the amazing fortune of having our record drop on July 11th, 2000, which was a Tuesday, but that was the Tuesday after the Friday that Lars live on CNN showed up at the Napster thing with the truck and taking in all the names. So being associated with Lars when our record came out was literally the worst guy to be, to be handcuffed to, you know, as he's jumping off this clip, you're like, wait, I want to have a career. You know, I don't think that ruined our career, but Lars had become, especially after we've parted ways with Martin, our relationship, there was no manager for a while. There was no, we had no manager for a year. So for a whole year of that, it was, it was no manager. Our lawyer, if we were in trouble and we knew we were, we'd have our lawyer call, otherwise it was like, I was on the phone with Lars pretty much almost every day. Wow. I mean, easy man. I talked to them the night after they played at Woodstock 99, like after their show that night, because we were just about to start recording, peep show, because that was the summer of 99, just like, yeah, weird shit was, you know, weird historical things would happen. And the funniest thing, not the funniest thing, but the honest thing was, you know, we got signed in 98, our record ended up coming out in 2000. And then in, in January of 2001, when our second single went to radio, a lecture just gave up and they pronounced your record dead, which is a really horrible thing to get a call. Like your records dead. And you're like, what? Like, yeah, you're not doing this tour all spring and not going to radio. You guys need to figure out what's going to happen next. And maybe you should try and listen to popa roach. No offense against popa roach, but that's why I'm going to get that as well. That's where a lot of it was, was going. I didn't get that. Yeah, sure. I basically got the, hey, you know, you guys could really, you stop singing like a girl all the time. Maybe more people would like you. Right. Um, but not from Mars, ever. He never, I mean, he would make creative suggestions. And I never took one that I didn't want to. And I was always real honest with him. And he was at his funniest when I would reject him on that in that way. I remember one time we were on the phone and he was like, it was an ending that he wanted me to get real dramatic on and I literally, I did what he wanted and I did what I wanted and send him both to him. And he was like, cool, man, which one do you think is good? I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to do the one I like. And he goes, that's cool. It's your career. I've already got one. Later. He said shit like that all the time. That was really funny. Right. Um, so, uh, so, yeah, so like when, you know, it got, it got, it got to where we found out what the budget was going to be. And it was just like the musical landscape. I feel like if we were to hung on that music kind of was coming, like the strokes and stuff was coming out, which sort of like spoke a little bit more to what, what we were about as a band, you know, even cold play at the time was probably a little bit more on par than what was actually happening in alternative radio. Yeah. For lack of terminology, yeah, the, the alt rock or even just, just hard rock that wasn't metal. Right. Pop a road, pop roaches metal, but they had to call it new metal and they were right. That good. That sort of like attached itself to corn, which the roach and corn are not the same thing to me. No, they're the same thing to someone standing in a hot topic store at the mall. What shirt do I want to buy today? You know, will it be pop a roach or corn because because they're the same thing and they're not the same thing at all. Yeah. No one knows that and no one realizes that. They're just going by what's on the radio and it's such a smarmy moment in music anyway. Yeah. It's awful. You were really trying hard to, to make a make your songs stick and that, you know, that's all we're, that's all we were trying to do in the industry anyway. Yeah. I mean, I feel like even with dangerous toys and, and even with gaudy was to say, wasn't we like we weren't making accessible music? Right. You know what I mean? We were, I mean, we're making songs. You get your, you know, I think sporting a woody all the time. Yeah. You know, these are, we were making accessible music. It's not like we had to, you know, chase radio or something, but I was, what I was going to say is sort of like after that record came out and the, and the Napster thing took on the new life, like it started, it started off very innocently and then like once he took the names, then he was vilified and on then he disappeared from our lives. Like, yeah, he disappeared. Like I went from talking to him every day to never being able to get ahold of him to calling his number, calling his assistant. Like no one would answer, no one would talk to me, no one would talk to us. And then he like showed up one night at some gig in New York and basically told us that, you know, electric, electric was just begging him to drop us and get rid of us and all this and, and that he wanted to keep us, but then he disappeared again. And honestly, it wasn't until 2004 when I went to go see some kind of monster that any of my questions where I was like, oh, oh, that's why he wasn't calling. His fucking life was falling apart. Right. Yeah. Like, I, you know, I mean, we all knew Jason quit during that time. The other thing too was like, he always used to say to me, like, look me in the eyes and go like, hang on to A and R dude, because if Jason ever quit, he's joining Metallica. You know that, right? And I would be like, no, you can't take my dude. And also like, you know, I would join Metallica so fast. He was, he would fucking remember my name when he joined band. So I was like, and I remember like reading like Jason quits Metallica and I was like, Oh, fuck. Now I got to find a new bass player. Well, did A.N.R. that's, that's interesting. Well, let's just take a look. Okay. Nothing, nothing made A.N.R. Saturday. Never get like a sheep and A.N.R. Well, here we go, baby, you answered my, you answered my question, he stayed awake for a month waiting for the phone. Every time we walked in the river, it was like that show beep where Julie, let me drive this. Like, did the president call? No. He had a call. It was like that. Hey, did Lars call yet? He hasn't. No. Yeah. Metallica. Metallica. Now it's new bass player. Hey, did Lars call? Hey, no. You need to pull your head out of the sand waiting for Lars to call and notice that they're on, they're making a record with their new bass player right now. Right. Yeah. Well, regardless of the outcome, I mean, that in and of itself is a huge, what an experience. I mean, who gets to say that? That's incredible. I'll be honest in the, in the whole experience of it, I literally, there aren't many people that ever fucking believed in me as much as that guy. Like honest, like I, like, it's like, it's like, wow, almost a million dollars. Do I make it happen for, right? Yeah. And really, really believed in my band. Like really fucking believed in the music that I made really was in awe of what I did. Like I remember, get a room at the Sunset Marquis in that room, had a piano in it, and I fucking sat down and we would start singing along, and he would be like, how do you, how do you just like pick up instruments and just start, start playing songs just by yourself? And I was like, are you fucking kidding me, dude? It's like, dude, where I come from, if you can't do this, they'll kick you out. Right. Right. If you're, if you write songs that you can't pick up an instrument and play a song that maybe came from such a different world, but he was just always in awe. It was like, if I sat down and played a song, if it was fucking, that, you know, all wasted in the middle of the night playing like close to you by the carpenters, you would see this guy almost tear up, like he was just like, you're, you're a genius, you're the only fucking genius. So let's talk about this for, let's talk about this for two seconds. That's, that's, that's an innocent moment for Lars, just like it's an innocent moment for you that Lars is a fan of music, like during this, during this roller coaster ride with his vanity label and you guys are his, his boys, he is, you know, he, he likes, I would read, you know, snippets of people rolling stone interviews or stuff. What do you listen to right now? I really, I really like the new Alanis Moore set record. Oh, yeah. He liked stuff like that. That was my large impersonation. When when that's a good one, when we, when we, we went out there in like January of 2000 to find a new manager before our record came out and we ended up hanging out every night at the bar at the Sunset Marquis with a couple of other people, this band by me, Zero, that was originally from Birmingham, heard of that, and, and then this Scottish band called Travis. And I guess Jerry Cantrell, Lars was going to sign Jerry Cantrell at the time and he was hanging out and somebody else in our band. And every night we would go to the Sunset Marquis and it would close and they would obviously let us just stay there and bartend and do the whole thing. And it was the Oasis album standing on the shoulders of giants was out. And we literally would only listen to that record for like three hours a night, every night. And like everybody had their favorite thought, he was just, yeah, he was such a fucking man going to his house that weekend that I spent there like that. Like he had a jukebox and it was like, once, once, once the important stuff is done, it was like, have you ever heard Deep Purple's, whatever. Right. Yeah. Oh my God. Like, you know, he had a jukebox and, you know, he probably had a deep purple jukebox. But here's my, here's my everything jukebox and then like he opens this curtain and here's my deep purple jukebox. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I definitely got a love for Deep Purple doing that. But also like all of his like bootleg videos, like, you know, like in the 90s, how you go to record conventions and get like, you know, I had all these weird things of like parliament Funkadelic from 1976 at the summit in Houston or something. Yeah. And then he had like, you fuck loads of, I mean, he had like a dude. I'm sure I've told you this. That same weekend. Room, he had a music, a record room that had like a set CDs and records and everything. Awesome. And he had watchtower in there. Wow. He said to watchtower. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've seen the magazine photos where he wears the watchtower shirt. Yeah. The skinny on that was is, I had at some point gifted Jason Neustad, a watchtower shirt. And he's like, I don't do black Smalls. I'll give it to Lars. I said, fine. I don't give a shit. Clean laundry. Here you go. I don't care who, who, you know, if some change the oil on the bus, I don't care. But, but what I was going to say back to what I was going to say real quick is the innocence there. Like you're just a song guy and he's not really, he's a song guy in a different way, but it's not really an instrumentalist. I don't think he really plays anything other than drums, you know, power chords and whatever, but he's not. And there's a lot of producers that are just like that. Like I made a record with Roy Thomas Baker, you know, queen, journey, cheap. Yeah, yeah. Can't play, he can't, you know, yell into a paper bag and make it sound good. You know, so it's, I'm a huge, great grouping guy, like, yeah, he's saying he can't play anything. I don't think you need to know, no, I agree. I think it's fine that there's these borderline genius or just completely savvy to music only by going by gut because of their fandom of music and sound and art and things like that. Whatever they fall in love with is whatever they fall in love with. There's no rhyme or reason as to what it is. So I love this moment that you've that you've shared with us about Lars just going like a puppy dog going, what the fuck, you know, just getting all emotional. That makes sense to me in a huge way. And you know, people are making fun of the way he plays drums, but they don't know him the way that you've learned to know him. Well, I played with him and I do make fun of the way he plays. Well, hold on a second. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I know. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. And that's the romantic and me coming out going, holy shit, that just uncovers so much shit. If you let it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, and it's obviously a passionate dude, super passionate about music and period. So I mean, that's what drove me to be the president of the Motorhead fan club. And that's what drove exactly a tape trader from from Denmark. And then tapes back and forth. I mean, he, if he never made it in the business, he would still be that nerd, but he would be late. He would be me, you know, just like talking about rock and roll, you know, he even had a show like we had for a while on Apple music. He had a. Oh, yeah. That's right. An interview show. Yeah. Yeah. He's a fucking yeah, he's just like us, you know, like sitting around getting all fucked up with that dude and listening to records is unbelievably educational, super fun, and like you're dancing like two dudes just dancing, listening to music, no matter what music it is, you're dead. Like you can't stop like getting into it. You know, yes. I love that. Yeah, I don't think I think that's just in his blood, whether he whether the world, you know, whether he became world famous or not, he was always driven by his respect and passion for music. So you're still. So you're still I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was going to say about his dad too, like one more thing, because he did die this year and I was a huge fan of that guy. That guy was a huge fan of ours too. Like he was he was so he was he was equally as complimentary as Lars all that he would show up at shows of ours, like whenever we were anywhere near the north, like anywhere near Seattle where he was dad lived, he would be out of show. Like if we had a showcase that was really important and like he would come down for it, not just for us, but for Lars. He would that that relationship that he had with his dad was easily like it was unbelievably beautiful. They were connected in a big, very, yeah, very big way. Wow. Yeah, I didn't even know. Very cool. Dude, I didn't know that Torben lived in the States actually. Yeah, but that's, you know, so that's to fucking he looked like Gandalf is like, like actually, like a long fucking white beard, he had this weird, long fingers. It's a real deal. Real deal. Yeah, I was going to say, I'm sorry, Dave, before I forget this, I just want to want to say we're about to start talking about your podcast. Yes. Dave, tell me. That's where I was going, Jason. Oh, good. I wanted to. Yeah. You know, obviously Lars is a is a huge talking point and I do appreciate indulging us with all this. Yeah, that was awesome. You know, I don't I really don't mind talking about it. And it was a very significant part of my life. And it is like one of those things like when you were telling Billy in your interview with Billy, like, can you believe this happened? Like these people's lives were changed because of you. Look at what they're saying. And like to think like the biggest rock star in the world spent a lot of time thinking about me. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like just the thought of like, you know, like, you're walking through the mall. You see 25 Metallica shirts and you just want to grab it. We're going to go like, dude, that guy. I can make that motherfucker cry. Yeah. Right. I've done it. It's a pretty it's not lost on me that that that happened and and it's sort of the weight of of, you know, the sad thing was it didn't happen in a way that that we had all hoped and set out for it to happen. But the experience itself was just beautiful. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'd say that very few people anyway. So you definitely have a unique experience in that regard and and I just love all the insight you shared with us and you've been and you've been busy musically since it's not like you can't make a record and it didn't do anything or whatever. It's your musician and you're it's full on all the time. Yeah. How many gigs a week do you play now? From one to four. Oh, right. Okay. Under what under what name multiple or I guess I'm in skyrocket. We play a lot and I do a lot of solo stuff and I have a solo band and I play with other people like last year I played guitar and keyboards for fastball and I've played with with bo deans and that capacity is like the harmony singing acoustic guitar guy and with Ian Moore and stuff like that like there's a lot of different people that I've been really fortunate to to hang with and and and play with. Yeah. You get to call when they need the need you or want you or they have a special show they want you for. Yeah. I've you know it's funny. I've always been trying to figure out like why anyone would ask me to be a guy like in their band like there's way guys do it are way better than me like but I realized like oh all these people are like my friends so you know I'm at that point in my life where I don't I would much rather have some friend of mine that wasn't near virtuoso but was super fun to hang out with in a van or bus or whatever you know it's about the hang it's about the hang we know but you know cheap labor cheap labor is worth it when it's a good hang yeah that that comes up on the show all the time yeah we're always talking to musicians and they can't emphasize enough how important it is to to be working with people that you can sit across from on a bus or in a van or in some dank dressing room or whatever for weeks at a time so yeah yeah it's fun to your podcast man because that also is a feather in your cap. I mean you've been doing this podcast since 2011 I think and or listening and watching it's called how did I get here and so 2011 you know Jason and I are obviously very new to the podcasting but I feel like and to correct me if I'm wrong 2011 I feel like podcasting it's certainly not as prevalent as it is today oh no yeah so what inspired you in 2011 to start a podcast and you're up to thousands of episodes now aren't you yeah I just put out fourteen hundred and ten in front of that's insane I mean that's just that's amazing so in 2011 you have this idea so yeah how did it go from idea to reality well I had all the stuff like there's stuff on it right now but I can show you guys like here like I had I have a whole like you know studio here and I had microphone and everything and once I realized I was real excited because I was able to hear fresh air NPR whenever I wanted to because somebody told me it's available on the Apple podcast and then they explained what it was and then I was telling my cousin how cool it was because you can get fresh air whenever you want it and listen to it and he was like oh dude tell me your favorite comedian have their own original and I was like wait wait wait you can just do this he's like yeah I was like really and then I started digging into it and then Dale Dudley started his and he and I are very close friends okay and he's the very first episode that he did was him just really drunk and very upset talking for an hour and 15 minutes and you didn't know like if he was going to kill himself in the middle of it or if you was going to discover a cure for cancer like it was so fucking out there that I was like okay I'm totally doing this and so my initial thing was just I was going to talk just me no guess yeah but then I started practicing and it was terrible like it was like you read you don't you don't think about how long five minutes is oh yeah until you're trying to talk for five minutes yeah you know what I mean yeah I know what you mean and so it all came to me when you know Nakia yeah he was on the voice it was like the first season of the voice and in the in the current DJ on Sunday right yeah yes he just interviewed me on Friday oh awesome that's awesome and and it's a little bit nepotism or whatever the right word is where they play his shit and then he's a DJ it's kind of like you know back to me trying to get it yeah right back right you want to get a gig there so they'll play more of your shit I don't know if a lot of people realize this and I think that there is some truth to this that Metallica owns the venues they play at that Metallica owns the radio stations that their songs are number one on that's not true I don't know about that okay James Brown James Brown when they wouldn't play his music he would buy the radio station James Brown James Brown James Brown so it's not out of it's not unheard of but it's just something that I heard well that means that Metallica would have to own every NFL football stadium in North America I'm just saying you got a clear channel when you're a multiple when you're a billionaire a multi billionaire you can't keep all the money you can't spend can't spend it all in one lifetime even they say no so so that's why they do charity I mean and they should they it doesn't matter it's a brand so yeah anyway not to get off track but I think that it's really cool that that you know Sun radio has these local musicians who are the DJs and yeah the perks are nice yeah they're nice yeah so so I went to with my girlfriend at the time to baby Acapulco to have dinner and have a couple margaritas and then walk home and watch Nakia on the voice and so we started watching him on the voice and all I could think was like I saw this dude a couple weeks ago at Saxon and it was like 20 people there yeah and I was playing for like God knows how many millions of people yeah like I whether he's just standing there going like how did I get here and then all of a sudden it just hit me and I was like fuck I'm gonna interview my friends and it's gonna be called how did I get here it just all came to me watching Nakia Wow beautiful yeah that's that's great so so 1400 episodes later you know I I actually I know you had Phil Lewis from LA Guns on your show I'm a big fan of his and I say this you know I'm a real quick I'm a big fan of yours and I'm a little bit intimidated by you but you send me I remember when you sent me this message you're like hey dude the song you played on the show we do not feel thinking it's the other guy do you remember that oh hey and I would like God it would have been anyone that wasn't gave that wrote me that I would I think I turned red when I thought I was like oh God I feel like I fucking called Phil I was like oh dude I'm so sorry ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I forgot all about that I forgot all about that I mean yeah I did have Phil on but you guys obviously have a history together because I was listening to the show and and it's clear that I could just go way back together but your show he did Austin for a while so yeah he did Austin for a bit I guess wives were friends that's that was like I went to dinner one night it's like it same thing like oh my friend Tracy is married to this dude he's a musician Tracy was like oh my friends married to this dude he's a musician you guys will get along so we went to dinner and we really hit it off awesome ah nice nice yeah I'm a big fan but you're a nice guy too totally yeah absolutely your podcast is kind of you know ours is very music oriented and most of our guests 99.9% of our guests are our musicians but you're kind of like into a little bit of everything right so tell us tell us tell us your topics or what people can expect me to go to your podcast it's mostly musician on musician but there are occasionally I mean I have like people that write books but they're musicians that write books or people that write books about musicians or you know I had a a budro yeah and the bloody Bruce and guys that you had on and like ah he was about it's it's rare that it's not music related yeah even when I have directors or people that I've made a movie there's some kind of musical connection to it yeah yeah we're the same yeah yeah so in all that in all those 1400 episodes ah who did you who did you have on your show where you learned something that really surprised you like maybe you went into the conversation thinking X about this person and then they just blew your mind with something you had no idea that this was coming out of that field was there anybody like memorable in that regard um even though I had a falling out with him a couple of years ago Michael Corcoran was humanized to me talking like and that was huge yes because I thought of I asked him to be on the show pretty early on because I realized that I didn't have anyone on that I didn't like yet oh wow so I he'd never written anything about about only written good things but I found his his role in our community to be an agitator and kind of a not yeah his thing was to fuck with people and piss them off and he liked that yeah yeah and and openly he said it you know and getting to know him in that couple of hours that we talked made me like him yeah he's uh he's my idol as a as a writer you know I don't know Johnny how much you know about my background but that's kind of what I do on the side I've been I do I know you do men I was intimidated that was I had a real journalist fucking write me and go like hey you got the facts wrong that's why I was like oh no that's Middle Day thinks I'm a hack but that's what but that's what real journalists do don't they they can't go to sleep at night he's playing the wrong song I'm sending him an AMI right now yeah it's the nerd in me yeah but yeah Corcoran was my idol and I went to his memorial service a couple weeks ago and and you know if he was listening to this right now he would not disagree with anything you just said no no no in fact everyone that was real close to him when I would say like you know I didn't like him for years and then I got to know him and then all of a sudden I'd see in places we'd hug we'd talk for like 20 minutes and it was it was awesome I had this warm feeling and then he wrote this really weird he had that sub stack and I was having Eric Johnson on the show a couple years ago in 2022 and I got this call from his manager on Mother's Day which was the day before the Sunday before we were going to do this interview not that my grandma's house and he called and he was like so Eric Johnson the guy that murdered my mom who actually died like a month ago which is not awesome but it's a relief he had this recording studio here in town and when Eric Johnson was doing a pre-production for the album Tones my mom and this guy were dating and he would let me just go hang out and so I was hanging out while Eric Johnson and Tommy Taylor and and Kyle were doing uh we're doing the pre-productions with Tones for Tones with David Tickle wow the producer guy and um and so Michael wrote this Mother's Day article when I laugh about it now because it's absurd but he wrote this Mother's Day article that was just like the darkest part of all of all of that stuff there was no it was the darkest like the gross part like the violent shit and all this stuff and and so apparently Eric read it and then was like oh fuck that's the kid that's interviewing me tomorrow I remember that guy and so his manager called he was like you can't bring up that studio and I was like why not that's like the best part of the whole thing that's how I know him and he was like because he doesn't want to talk about it because the quote-colons article and I was like what are you talking about last year again there you go anyway so uh he goes he doesn't want to talk about this because the article quote-unquote and then I went and saw the article and I was like what in the fuck is wrong with this dude so I did I did I called him and I yelled at him and he did take it down in his defense but I was really pissed like I was pissed in that in that like why would you do that why what in what world do people need this on Mother's Day you know what I mean right yeah yeah like happy Mother's Day every day everyone this guy's mom you know was brutally murdered yeah and that was just like god it's fucking gross like what a weirdo so anyway I have forgiven him in my heart since then I felt bad that I never reached out and apologized before he passed away but yeah you know you know and you don't have to own up to that I think that that he understood probably a while I mean he took it down he did he understood well he understood in in his defense Mike did you ever watch the show entourage yes yeah okay so my cousin was sitting there when I called him and when I got up the phone she was like dude you just went full ari gold on that guy right so I said something said even surprised me wow well well you know he was he was talking about he was he was or he almost was it's not my place but talking about shit that he probably had no right to really talk about well anybody can talk about I just I just thought like why 20 30 something years later are you gonna bring this into a thing and make it all weird make it weird for me and my family like we shouldn't have to see that shit again that's you know that's right anyway we're outside of that for you so Michael Corcoran was was one that surprised me because I found that that that even it that people are human beings like everyone is no matter how much you dislike them or no matter what kind of public persona offends you outside of that they love their mom you know they love their kids their community you know and so that that made me like Michael yeah decade yeah so how have you been able to you know Jason and I have been doing this show for three and a half years and sometimes we we look at each other and can't believe that we're still doing it after three and a half years you've been doing this for 13 years and he still do you still crank out all the time two episodes a week or something is that yeah so how do you find the energy I guess for that you're obviously a talker you're not a wall flower you enjoy the conversation that sort of yeah but I know from just from our perspective it's like a full-time job not just doing the show but then all the social media and the promotion and the post-production and the you know all the stuff that goes along with it booking the guests et cetera et cetera how do you manage are you are you a one-man band or do you have someone behind the scene a percent yeah I think I think that's why it's so easy I don't I at one point there was a little while early on where I had a producer but it's like all the emails like tripled and doubled and like instead of me just reaching out to someone and going like hey you want to come do this or yeah there was a lady like hey are you available to know hey he says he can't do this can you do it was just too much and so I was like you know one of the things that I do love about it is the autonomy of it and even though it is a lot of work I don't edit I don't have video I don't do things with it that that will make me go in the hole financially you know like I know my friend Kurt Newman the guy that is the singer Bodines he did a show like this and at one point he was like I can't like we can't sustain this because it's costing so much and I was like it costs you like yeah we have a video team that come like oh god that would the second that I had stressed like that I wouldn't do it so I've made it I've made it so that it is a one-man show I've it's hard to put out those two shows a week but early on there were different people giving me advice and like Dale Dudley when I before I put it out he was like just no content is king so you should do like 30 of them and then put them out together and then to figure out whatever pace I uh oh god um why am I drawing a point of his name I'm a friend at KOBJ that's part of the comedy world and introduced me to Mark Marin when I very first kind of started this and we were talking about music and stuff and and uh his he's gonna show nice to me Mark Marin's gonna show he does have a show yeah it's amazing it's great show yeah yeah um and he uh I mean he was a huge inspiration for me from the beginning but he uh he was like there was this there was this thing that he was like you know when you're doing this show and I guess this was like I started in August and when the the moon tower thing is in uh in uh in in like March or April or something and so that's when I met him so it was a few months after I started it and and I had had a couple of times where I missed a week you know didn't get it together or someone didn't come over or something and his thing was like you know not not because of any of that just in general advice his thing was don't make us look like like losers like there's other people that if you come out here and and don't take it seriously then it makes the rest of us look like we don't take like this is this needs to be like a real fucking thing yeah and so in order to do that if you're gonna put out two shows a week you need to put those shows that like you know it would be like you know if if Jimmy Fallon was like oh yeah I couldn't get it together to make the show happen tonight it's really tomorrow or next week or so you know what I mean he's like you people will count on it then deliver and be consistent and so I've been that yeah it's really hard I hear you loud and clear man I mean we put out a new episode on Wednesday and it's been every single week for three and a half years and and Tuesday's a freak out day for you probably or for Jared or whoever's working on it you know I don't know I feel like the three of us you know we all bring our skill sets to the table and we complement each other very well and we have reached a certain cadence where it's kind of it's a lot of it is on autopilot but it is time-consuming so you know so you know I can pull together questions I can book a guest Jason does the same Jared does his thing whatever it is he does but we kind of do it and we don't really stress out over it anymore because it comes it's so natural now we've been doing it right long but it is time-consuming there is no denying the amount of time it takes out of a day to to be consistent as you say and I agree with you a billion percent consistency is the key if you're gonna stay in people's faces and you're gonna be recognized as legitimate you can't just put it out when you feel like it and in our case when we're trying to attract guests that goes a long way to making us look like a legit outlet you know somebody we're not gonna get the guys from Megadeth or Judas Priest or something like that if they look and find out that we put out an episode whenever we feel like it they got an actually right this show comes out and these guys are for real about it etc so our our our our our safety net that I almost said thankfully but I wouldn't it wouldn't be the end of the world whatsoever when we first started we were just doing we'd pick a topic and we just get on here and start jabbing about it and three hours would go by and we'd have a fucking blast doing it um so there's always that safety net in case we don't have a guess when things get really bad and we have to do something like that but that's that hasn't been happening because we've always been able to come up with some kind of guest who's interesting whether it be someone I know or someone Dave knows or somebody I'm a fan of or someone Dave's a fan of and it makes it somewhat easy to to be consistent whether they're going to be a top shelf guest as far as numbers may go that has clout and rolling stone covers you know stuff like that um it's not um something that we've really had to worry about it comes up every once in a while but it's it's rare so for you to to put two episodes out every week the fact that you're probably a one man show does make it easier as to just comparing it to what we have which is to the same but very different at the same time it takes a small village for us to do our thing I think a video component immediately like it makes exponential amount of work and editing also like yeah that's that's Jared's forte and you know I think I think if he was listening right now or if he was with us he would say that much like you said Johnny that you know what you hear is what you get you don't do a lot of editing and splicing and oh my god he stuttered there or he said the you know or he lost his train of thought there cut it and you know we don't do any of that I think Jared the extent of his editing is he drops photos into the intro where we have a photo montage just to sort of offer a visual representation and then we've got that little animated sort of intro outro thing but by and large the body of the show is the conversation just how it happened and I'm not taking anything away from him I mean that takes a lot of time and and there's been times when he's about to go you know out on a gig for two weeks on tour with somebody or whatever and he's got a all of a sudden slam out five episodes because he's gonna be from his rig for a while and so I everyone in this show myself Jason and Jared I can respect and appreciate what everybody brings to the table because I know how much work and thought goes into it to make it happen on a regular basis and to make it quality you know the other thing is having haven't been consistent with Mickey Mouse content is no good either so hopefully we're kind of you know we're consistent and offering good content good video good audio etc so you know when you it's all good audio can I quickly say something Jason yeah go ahead I'm a I'm also a huge fan of that rock and I watched every episode of that metal show I remember when you were there and you were like getting married or something yeah yeah every time someone I knew it's on their fucking freak out but the the last episode like it popped up after we said we're gonna like last week or something right yeah that rocks yeah that rocks yeah yeah yeah they're uh I was gonna say like they need some microphones or something because that that camera was really far away from you and I was like I said they're gonna do it like this like yeah what the fuck is wrong with these guys well I'll tell you what was wrong with that we were on a cruise ship I know and um one of the photographers there who uh Neil Lim Sang who's an awesome photographer rock photographer but he does some other awesome shit that no one really knows about uh he's I think it's okay if I say this he's like an editor for like the Mandalorian oh wow yeah he does shit like that anyway I'm hoping I'm getting trouble for saying that but anyway because he's like um and that's his what he does for real but uh you know they just go I will just get you know so and so hey Neil you sure man I'll film you guys and so he's just filming this on a cruise ship there was very little planning there's no extra gear or mixer or mics or anything and so you have you know 40 different artists that you know those guys could interview and so I was shocked that they wanted to talk to me because I mean they had Glenn Hughes on their ace freely you know they had like these rock gods on there and so I walk in and I thought the same thing that you're saying right now it's like how she's like you know literally 10 feet away so he can get everybody in the shot and I'm like I can't believe so I made sure to project and try to face the camera and they're pretty good they all those guys talk kind of loud anyway so but I understand what you're talking about the quality of it is not grandiose at all but the um the fanfare and the fun and the the lightheartedness I think comes through on well oh yeah and everyone's going to but I'm with you if you read the comments there's people that feel the same way that you do and I do about the audio it's like god why don't these guys get closer to the microphone it sounds like shit I can hear the dishwasher through the hallway on that right right right yeah I had a I had a like when they when they stopped doing the show regularly last year because of the technical problems they were having it got to be where like the technical problems were like part of the awesome part of the show for me yeah yeah because it became part of the content they started bagging on each other like a great Florentines microphones are Don's video keys easing or something and they would start busting each other's balls and that became a show or they would ask Eddie or they would ask Eddie a question and he would disappear yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah screen or freeze oh I guess he didn't want to fucking talk to us you know your your episode your episode of dawn was great oh yeah yeah we've gone on the show at least twice maybe three times he's a fun guy he's got a new podcast he's got something new going on right now that I can't remember the name of rock strap that's right and it's supposed to apparently it's a combination it's a combination of rock stars and sports hence the name right okay his first guest was David Brian from Bon Jovi so he's that's right wow that's awesome great yeah we love Don and Jim we've had Jim the show twice I believe maybe just once with Jim but we've had Don on I think three times and and he's always great and and and he's always been supportive too he gives the shouts out on his show we did yeah that sort of thing so we want to get we want to get Eddie so I guess I'm going to start hounding Eddie about being on the show I I'm I have love about a 50-50 rating on on him possibly doing it so I don't know if he's even going to respond but you know if you go back to like the earliest episodes episode one two three four five maybe even the first like dozen of them like me and Dave I think mostly Dave it's like a different microphone every time it's me yeah and it sounds weird it sounds different every time you know one of us sound like this and one of us was all you know it's yeah so there was a lot of growing pains early on we didn't know what the fuck to do and before I stopped blabbing here about it the first time I was on on how did I get here Johnny your show I don't think I knew what a podcast was oh Johnny's gonna interview Johnny's gonna do an interview with me and it was it was a podcast and I didn't know that I was officially going to be on a podcast yeah yeah you were on pretty early like in the first year of it right yeah would it probably would have been around the time me and my wife were engaged so it was probably it was probably 2012 it's like 2020 right when you started 2011 or 2012 yeah who knows I don't know what number I am I'd if you guys don't mind I'd love that I was going to do this anyway but ask you guys to be on my show as a team oh sure oh sure man okay that'd be fantastic that'd be that'd be a lot of non-jared no no Jared allowed because you know I had a beautiful I had a beautiful Jared you know I actually had a beautiful Bobby Rock experience two five years ago you gotta have Bobby on your show I thought I'd had him on you know I do a hundred percent and I've I've reached out to him since I started watching that uh the very first episode of of the crew from hell that I watched that there was this it was just him like they started up with just him saying hi to be like walking through like there's all right all right like doing his positive reinforcement to everyone yeah and I was like dude this is almost exactly like that scene in Goodfellers where where where Ray Liotta takes takes the girl on the date and they have that really long shot where he walks through the back of the restaurant do the thing like saying hi to everyone yeah it was just like that to me also like this is the coolest thing and also it's such a testament to like everyone's face when they see Bobby is exactly what your face should be when you see Bobby like all right you know yeah well I love that dude with the way he's like sup fellas yeah all right yeah all right yeah it's like you can imagine hanging hanging out with like Bootsy Collins or something hey man what's up hey man what's happening you know real like honestly like like being fascinated with behind the curtain I mean that that show the the Metallica stage episode where they had it all taped off and they were back that they did that was fucking amazing to me yeah yeah yeah I love the episode where they were in the the rehearsal space and by rehearsal space I mean an airplane hanger and yeah yeah yeah yeah pyro and stuff pyro that was fucking rad that was crazy and when we come on the show I made a winner dude yeah oh well that's why we have a show yeah and I made the point when we had him on the show when we have Bobby on the show I made the point that you know all of us have been to a million rock concerts but yeah how many of us really know what it takes to put that on stage not many of us yeah and especially at that level that's yeah yeah it's dude so like loading into Madison Square Garden kind of story oh yeah I was like yeah I was like I I I I applaud him for having this idea and doing it because he's great at it and he's got no shortage of content and and he's doing it at the highest level you can imagine this would be a totally different show if it was him loading in it you know antones or the back room or you know emails or something like that but like you said Madison Square Garden or the the football stadium where the Detroit Lions play or whatever that's a whole nother level and people don't get to see that so I think awesome the interesting thing about it is is when you call when you call the pack you know there's an order and what cases need to go where and when it's still the same dance whether you're loading into antones the back room or Madison Square Garden yeah right the case case these cases go on the stage these cases do not these cases go here but not until I say so right exactly what what's happening I think Jeff I think Jeff Tweety's gig is part of that yeah and push cases but he's like I'll take one through four right over here right five two seven gonna go center stage right it's a real it's a real dance but Bobby's terminology like the ballet of forklifts or whatever it's a dance yeah and comes at a dance yeah so yeah yeah the story the story about him I love that we're like just recounting nerd we are my favorite with that the Ian gig was the funniest one that he am just going over telling everyone that he was the guy he said then eventually he had the gig all right he's got nothing to hide either man because you know he's he's so real yeah yeah that's one of the things I do have to say that that like I don't know if it's us getting older or that we've all known each other for so long because even though we don't see each other all the time especially you Jason I feel I feel like you're like a family member of mine like I I feel very close to this community of people no matter how often I see people you're still my cousin you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah and when I see you I'm like you know you're like but Jason you know what I mean like all right like yeah you know that's a great feeling I mean I feel the same way and I see you even less Johnny I mean I could probably count the number of times we've actually bumped into each other but it's yeah talking to you today is like you know we just picked up like we were talking last week or something you know yeah I'm glad I'm glad that you said that day because I've always wondered I know there's some people that I approach very familiarly like because you just feel like I know you yeah and some people don't like that so I've always wondered if if you're always like oh god here he comes you know like not at all not at all I mean I you know it's like Jason and I have said many times you can you you you recognize your tribe you know you do I can see you from across the room and I know your backstory and I know okay at the very least without ever speaking a word to this guy I know he's a music nerd so we're halfway there and so the rest is like okay is he just a blatant jerk or is he some is he cool because well I know we're already halfway there because we got anything in common and right and yeah I know what you know what you mean Johnny because I feel like and you know and I'll drag Bobby into this too and not everybody is this way I think I feel like some of us more than others and and the four of us Bobby and us and us three are not afraid to really walk up to someone and go dude what's that how's going you know yeah in some in some in some capacity whether it's we're nerding out because we're a fan or it's like hey you don't know me but I met you better that it done and you know some of the same people I just wanted to say hi and we're not like Bobby will say it I'm not shy Bobby says that he tells people because I'm not shy is the reason I get to do the cool shit that I'm doing because I'm a knucklehead and I'll just walk right in to the flames right and it gets too hot I'll exit you know yeah yeah I got I got to tell you guys like five years ago we played two different gigs skyrocketed one was in Cleveland and we had all gone to the Rockinville Hall of Fame before we had to go load in and stuff and we were coming back in this van from back to our hotel from the Rockinville Hall of Fame and there was a bus that looked like a tour bus and like oh fuck a tour bus is there I wonder who it is there's this guy just walking in circles talking on the phone with the hoodie on and the hood on and stuff and then he pulls the hoodie off in his bobby another time that same year I was walking down just like five years ago Jared if you're watching this or listening you will be listening to this yeah I hope you remember this but I'm walking with our with skyrockets tech we went to go get something to eat in downtown Pittsburgh and we're walking back to our hotel and as I'm walking this guy's walking towards us and I'm like wow Jared had a doppelganger in Pittsburgh and the guy kept on getting closer and like how do you pass I was like there's no way someone can look that much like Jared so I turned around and I go Jared and he turns around say hey that's so weird the random walking biomed in downtown Pittsburgh yeah yeah that's how that's how rock and roll is though yeah it's one of my favorite things about it yeah I'll stand out to each other amen amen Johnny man thank you so much for spending so much time with us today your story is amazing dude and uh I really do appreciate you spending so much time with us and letting us pick your brain and hear all your great stories and uh and uh we wish you continued success with your podcast and all of your musical endeavors of course and thank you I don't know how you do it yeah yeah you're juggling well it's it's not like I have a full-time job and I and I have to do this like it did you just all little honey there's like I'm a guy that's like I'm like a patchwork quilt of work yeah well there's an art to that as well yeah I get it but you got to do yeah you got to do it so it is so it is a full-time job doing what you know the juggling act that you're doing is the full-time right that's the job yeah making it all making all those little things happen is the job exactly yeah yeah man I love thank you man and I look forward to having you guys on the show I'll reach out to you maybe we can do it in like October or something sounds good I mean let's do it thanks so much man it's been a pleasure on behalf of my co-host Jason McMaster I'm metal Dave along with our special guest today Johnny Goudy on the talk louder podcast
