(upbeat music) Welcome back to Disc Golf Daily, everyone. I am here with Anthony Bodanza. You may know him, you may not. But if you don't know him, he is a Disc Golf YouTube content creator, and he has some of the best content, honestly, and he posts consistently about that stuff. So, Anthony, thanks for coming on Disc Golf Daily. - Of course, thanks for having me. - Pretty good, man. I'm good, just five days into becoming a dad. So, I'm kind of surprised that sleep has been on and off, but I didn't realize how much my really poor sleep schedule has trained me to have a kid, because I was running on really bad, really poor sleep for a while, and now I'm doing the same thing. I feel better than I should, but that just makes me know that if I actually slept well, I could feel so much better. So, that's something to realize for like three years from now on, I can get back to normal sleep schedules. - Yeah, so people don't realize, I feel like, that when you're trying to post like daily or close every day, that you're editing most of those days, you're also filming. So, it's a lot of daytime filming in late night editing. - I mean, we could blame it on that, but I would say it's more of a lack of discipline, for sure. - Oh, okay, but I get it too. - It's a bit of both, yeah. - I get it too, because it's like, after a long day, even as like 10 p.m. or 11 p.m., you just get your bed, you wanna just like have some time to chill. You don't wanna go to bed and work immediately the next day. So, I 100% get that. So, talk to us more about that aspect, how you balance normal life with content creation. - Yeah, for sure. So, I don't know, I don't necessarily think about it in terms of like a balance. I more think about it in terms of like a harmony, because it's definitely a very unbalanced life a lot of the times. And my schedule's constantly evolving 'cause I'm constantly changing how I'm actually doing things. It's been interesting, honestly, because I went through a couple stages recently, when I first got into creating content and I was like, okay, I got into the disc golf January of 2022, so about two and a half years ago, and I was already creating YouTube content. I had like maybe five or six failed channels starting in middle school, and then eventually getting to the point where I had some of my successful channel, that's just my name, that I haven't now posted on in about two years. But I was like, man, there's a lot of people who like want more disc golf content, and the disc golf content that's out there, like there's room for more good content. And so, I had a style already that I curated, and I just kind of brought it to disc golf a little bit, and it was slow going until I really started, I'm just a competitive person by nature, and I was like, hey, I wanna like document my journey, and see maybe if I can get to the pro tour or whatever, 'cause I knew everyone was talking about how disc golf is like a, it's a smaller sport, it's an easier sport to kind of get good quickly, and I was already working for myself, so I was like, I have all this time, and I started creating videos about like my move from MA2 to MA1, and those are the first videos that like started popping a little bit, and I was like, oh, if I commit to this, it can be something good, and so I went through the stage where I'm like, I'm gonna focus really hard on just getting really good at content, and then I'll get really good at disc golf. And I didn't really work on forum or stuff, and I kept getting better just 'cause I would play so much, and I like have always been relatively like quick adapting to the things that I take up, especially like sports wise, and so I got better without putting like a crazy amount of like intentional focus work on it, and then eventually my channel got to the point where it was self-sufficient, and of course I have to do a lot to maintain, and for me I feel like I have to post between 15 to 25 videos, a month really feel like comfortable financially about all of it, because disc golf is a, there's a lower amount of views on the top end or on the consistent end, so you have to just post more to make sure that you're making good income, and so I was like, okay, I got this, now I'm gonna focus on getting really good, and so last off season, into the beginning of this season, was really focused on that, and that changed my schedule into a lot of working on playing better, and honestly like, there was a lot of training that went along with that, but a lot of it was just my mindset shifted to trying to become a pro, and that was cool, and I'm glad that I did that, because I learned that like, that's not what's gonna one, get me to that stage, because I'm expecting things in myself too quickly on in my career, I'm only two years into playing, and I was like, okay, now I'm gonna focus on going and playing this pro trip, and so I did, and I didn't catch any of them, and I played, I think for this year, and my finishes got better and better, and my understanding on my game got better and better, but I stopped posting as much, or putting as much effort into my content, and I think you saw that, and how excited I was about making content, and in the content I was making, when I was on the road, I was just like, playing and focusing on that, and the content was coming secondary, and then I kind of, I flipped a switch, kind of at the end of my tour time, I was in the P&W, and I played Cascade Challenge, and I was like, I'm gonna focus a little bit more, like, making content again, and not worrying about becoming a pro, and so my days still were, it was hard on the road, really being more disciplined, coming from a stage where I was posting maybe two or three times a week, and I still did that for a while, while I tried to just make better content, and honestly plan, because we just had a baby five days ago, and I have 12 videos, thank you. I have 12 videos like Ready in the Chamber to Edit, so that I don't have to go and film this month, if I don't want to, and I can still maintain a living, 'cause I do this full time for myself, and there's some sort of passive aspect of my back catalog is making some money from ad revenue, but I basically, it's active work, I have to be doing it to be making money, I don't have like paternity leave that I pay into, and so I don't get any of those benefits, but I'm really glad that I focused again on making content, because my focus on that helped me to cache a Cascade Challenge, which basically got the strength of field of the best silver series last year, so I was pretty stoked on that, and then I didn't play well at Portland or Beer State, but most of that was like putting, but I was playing better and much more confident in my play, and so coming back home, I was focusing so much more content again, that I took a couple weeks off, just completely reset before I really dove back hard into it, knowing that I had about five or six weeks for the baby, and then because I've stopped focusing, I'm like, oh, I need to be a pro, I need to be really good, I need to prove to myself that all this work that I'm putting in is worth it by forcing my play to prove that, rather than just letting my play prove that, and so I didn't practice for this tournament, I played one of the courses one time, and one of the other courses maybe like two times for a tournament or something, but maybe a good bit ago, and I went in, I didn't really practice for it, I shot 10-10, every single round base, I think it was like 10-12, 1,000, 8-10-10, and got fourth at this big AT, where I only lost like people who, most people who were really into disc golf wouldn't know of, and so that was pretty sweet, and it made me realize like, if my dream from middle school was being a YouTuber, and then I achieved that, and then I throw it away for like this thing that I have had for two years, like there can be a balance there, and I think my balance, I don't know if it will always be this way, but I don't see why it would change, my balance will always be on being a YouTuber, creating content first, and then just like having the avenue of that be trying to also become a pro, but more treating that as a hobby, and so now my day-to-day, well for the last month, my day-to-day was just like, I posted every day from, let me actually double check, pretty sure it was the maybe the 26th of June, because our baby was August 7th, and I said, hey, I'm gonna post, I announced that we were having the baby, 'cause no one knew. I also kinda introduced my wife to the channel, 'cause I hadn't really done that before, but I posted that announcement, I've been keeping a massive secret from you, that video was, it just has a month ago, what does it not tell me how many days? 47 days ago, and then I posted every day for 40 days, 'cause one, I wanted to make sure that, if I wasn't able to post a lot during baby time, I had posted enough that I could have maybe some residual income that I just saved from July, roll into August, before I could get back to seeing what my schedule-creating content looks like, but those day-to-days were like, wake up, I go to train, I train five days a week actually, with a certified strengthening conditioning specialist, who is really helping put my body into the right place to do all the movements correctly, and that's another tangent that we can maybe get into if you'd like, but that has been helpful, so I'll go and train typically in the morning at like 9.30, and then from training, I'll probably go and shoot one or two videos, and then I'll come home and edit, and for a while, my videos are getting up at like midnight to 1 a.m., 'cause I would get home, like, veg out for a couple hours, and then be like, well, time to get a video up, and so I'd start editing at like eight or nine o'clock in the video, get up at like midnight, but now my schedule is taking care of baby, and maybe doing a little bit of editing, but as I get into the stage, I'm not trying to do two months of worth of work of like filming and editing in one month, it'll probably be filming maybe four or five days a week, and then editing most of the days, I would love to get to a place where I'm ahead on content, but the schedule's not always the same, but I probably am shooting 10 videos a week and editing seven or so right now, and then I also have like, on top of that, a little bit of obligations with my contract with Infinite where I need to post one video a month there, and I'm behind on those, so now it's one video every three weeks for the rest of the year, and so, probably doing like eight videos a week, 'cause I also have my second, there's a lot of stuff that's going on that. I don't know, I have really good ADHD, so I like to keep really busy. (laughing) - Yeah, that's awesome. Well, you said you introduced your wife, but OG's would've already known on the Badanzas channel, Van Life Tour, like, bro, like, I'm an OG, bro, I've been there since the Bodanzas, even though she was interested on the Discop channel, bro, I've already, she's already a key part in the Badanzas, my watch, the Badanzas as in his channel name, by the way, but to get back on track, how do you think you've, you started in January, 2022, and you were like ratings-wise, better than me, you're cashing at Pro Tour, and I started in April, 2021. How did you catch Pro Tour? - What? - But thank you. I'm not cashing at actual Pro Tour yet, I just casted a silver event last year. I wouldn't get that. - Well, you gave it that at the time, so. - That's true. It was a Pro Tour qualification of some sort. - Okay, so, but you're doing well. How do you think you've progressed so fast? Is it because you just played disc golf as your full-time job, or what is the secret behind that? - Yeah, I think it's kind of, it's a mix of things. I think one is just how much I have played and thrown. I think an interesting thing is, most of the discs behind me actually kind of with my wife, most, I think 80% of those discs back there were like sent to me for reviews, and most of those within like the past year or so, because I used to run mystery boxes, and so what's fun about doing disc reviews is, you're like constantly learning your discs, and so in order to one review well, you have to know how you throw, 'cause if like I'm throwing and I'm like, oh, I don't know why I'm shanking all these shots today, their views not gonna be very good, and so I had to really learn, like know how I throw it, but also you're throwing just shots that I wouldn't throw in my bag, and so it's kind of indirectly working on different parts of the game that I wouldn't otherwise work on, 'cause I'm like, oh, I'm gonna test this for a review, and then you're like, well, my body now knows how to throw this weird shot with like a flip up forehand, with like a A5 or something, and it's like, well, now I can kind of implement that, and so like a push your forehand with maybe like a straight mid-range, like, and so that's one of the fun things, and so throwing a lot has been very helpful, and I think a big part of it that is honestly like, I've always, I'm not like the most athletic person ever, but I've always been more like at the high average to above average in terms of like, picking athletic things up quickly, so like when I was in high school, I started playing soccer, and my junior year was like my first full like year ever playing soccer, like besides when I was in like kindergarten, and I was like, I wasn't the best technically, but I was one of the fastest on the team, so they named me one of the captains on, there were two varsity teams, it was a D2 school, and they had a D1 program, 'cause they were so good at soccer, and so I was the captain of the basically JV team, but we played other schools varsity team, and then I was like, on varsity next year, and so like, I've always picked up things relatively quickly, and I think that also goes well with disc golf, and then my brain is very much like a problem-solving thing, and so like, disc golf being a sport where it's like athletic, and then you're problem-solving, and you have to be a little analytical, that's been very helpful, but then on top of that, it has very recently been a lot of intentional work, because I actually, I feel like I was better at disc golfing, when I was way worse at throwing, and now I've gotten way better at throwing, at least backhand wise, and my disc golfing, especially putting, has gotten a little bit worse, because just the focus has shifted, but I feel like that was a necessary shift to get to my like ultimate high angles, which are like playing on tour as much as possible, hopefully caching, maybe doing even better than that, but eventually earning a tour card. But I would say, yeah, it's just a lot of practice, and then I'm like super nerdy and analytical, and so I would just practice by throwing, and then when I was like, okay, now it's time to not dial back on the content, but also dial up the getting good at disc golf side of things, I was able to do it pretty analytically, and I'm inherently very curious, so I would always like ask why, why, why, and try to get down to like, not just like the first answer, it wouldn't satisfy me, I'd try to, okay, why is that the case, and it gets down to like now the biomechanics of how things are moving, and that's become very interesting, and I still, I've honestly started talking less about form, because it's kind of like the Dunning-Kruger effect where like your confidence and your like experience or like expertise are proportioned, and it starts out where you have no expertise, but you're very confident, and then you realize how much you don't know, and I feel like I'm starting to climb up the other end where like, I'm becoming more of an expert in throwing and how, like understanding how that happens, but I'm not very confident in that yet, so I think eventually it gets to the point where I have a good understanding of biomechanics of the sport, but right now I've like stopped talking about it as much, because I still feel like there's so much that I don't know, which is a little confusing, and probably not the best for like my overall disc golf game in the moment, but I think it'll be helpful in the long term. - No, yeah, I'm kind of, I'm the same way with you. I've, in regards to that, I've like worked really hard on my form for three years, and I can throw really far, and I think I'm in a really good place where with my form and it's been showing, I've been playing a lot better, my punting is not great, but once I get my punting better, but I've been playing a lot better in it, I've been throwing really far, and you know, it's just been, this is all easier, and that's because for the first three years, it took a little longer than I wanted, but for the first one, I first started, I was like, I'm just gonna focus on form and getting it good, because I know that's a good foundation to have, and I do think, I do think any type of form you can get to a certain threshold in disc golf, my belief, but at a certain point, you can, if your form's like weird, too weird, like you, I do believe you'll like plateau, whereas like to keep rising there, I think there is like a certain, everyone's forms different, but there is a certain like thing you have to do to keep rising, 'cause if you're like throwing like super janky and like air bouncing, like you could get to a thousand rated, like throwing all air bounces, but you know, there'll be a certain moment where you, you know, it's like, this doesn't go far enough, so that was, and the biggest thing I focused on my form was to, you know, get like ease of accuracy and distance, because form, a huge part of distances form, and just knowing your body is doing the right things for accuracy, so I told myself for the first, I'm like, I'm just gonna figure my form, and it's been a journey, it's literally been three years, I think I've finally, after three years, I finally am like comfortable where every additional thing that I might try, like I guess there's nothing left really for, major things for me to try, like I know like where my elbow's supposed to be, I know that I need to lead with my elbow, I'm not no longer testing, like oh, am I leading with my shoulder? Am I bringing my hand in first? You get what I'm saying, it's kind of like, like you said, nerding out about that stuff where it's like, I'm at a point where I like how my form looks and that there's not really anything that I see where, or need to try that I think would be correct, 'cause I think everything, I've trial and nerd, anything, so I'm happy to be at the point now, but yeah, I was in the same mindset, I'm just like, figuring it out so you can now, so then you'll think yourself later, once you're like, you know, can focus more on this golf lesson form, and just, hopefully, I'm at the point where hopefully it'll pay off and I'll be able to, you know, really kind of climb in and escalate. Now that I'm not even thinking about form, and I have a good foundation, I guess what a long story short, I was just trying to build a solid foundation. So, do you, so this is something I struggle with, 'cause I also wanna get better at this golf, I do wanna be a pro eventually, whether that's on like locally, like I'd be okay with that, just like being playing with it. I wanna get good, I love this golf. I sometimes feel like if I bring a camera out on the, to record myself, that I'm just super distracted, and I'm not getting any good practicing or something like that, it's always about the camera shot, and like I'm not really thinking about anything, and it just takes way longer than normal, like a two hour round takes like four hours, or something like that. So where I'm going with this, do you think you recording yourself all the time is kinda hurting? Maybe you growing as fast as you potentially could to get that, that pro-tuber level? Since you do it all the time. - I think in a vacuum, like without context, I would say yes, but in context, I would say definitely no, 'cause without context, like yeah, like if I was to not like filming, like you lose strokes, like you wanna be focused when you're playing, and then when I'm filming, I'm not focused. I'm focused on getting good shot, creating entertaining content, not throwing the best shots possible. In a sense, that's, can be helpful for you if you're two in your head, because you just get out and you're focused on entertaining and sometimes it stinks, but sometimes you choose to just like let it flow, and you're focusing so hard on something else that like, you're just like, "I wanna throw the shot like this." And as long as you're able to give it that little bit of focus in the time, you're like, "Oh, I'm not worrying about how I'm throwing right now, "I'm just playing." But, and so in a vacuum, yeah, like if I was, I would, my form would look so much better than it does right now, especially 'cause I wouldn't have as many like reps that are bad, like 'cause there, I think my form is limiting me in a lot of ways in terms of like, so the way that I think about form is that your form is like the percentage of your power output that you can access from your body. So like, if you are stronger and like have better mobility in the right areas, then your form is able to transmit into a disc, you need to get your form better. But if your form is all right, and you're just like, not strong, not fast, not mobile enough, then maybe you just need to increase those things. And so it's two prongs of the same thing that need to get better and better in order to be at the most elite level for what your body can do. But for me right now, I think that the work that I've been doing in the gym and my like range of motion increases that are in the correct like places that have good integrity in movements and my strength overall and explosiveness has gotten so much better than my form is able to work on. And for the past six weeks, I've done absolutely zero form work just 'cause I'm focused on like making videos. And so in a sense, yeah, like I think you could basically probably change almost all your form in six weeks if you gave it the amount of effort that I gave to my filming. But in context, there's no chance that I'd be good as good as I was or getting to the point that I could without this 'cause I wouldn't have even close to the proximity to the players that I do that are because of my channel who will help me to get better even faster. Like a lot of the better players on the Pro Tour are some of my better friends in disc golf. And so I'm able to play rounds with them when I see them and able to ask for their opinions on things. And like I wouldn't have that without the channel with if I was in filming, if I stopped, like I don't, like of course, we have a relationship that might be able to transcend past that now. But on top of that too, like financially, like I would have to go and find a different job than this. And so I'm still able to do some things at practice. So in context, I don't think it's hurting me. But out of context, yeah, for sure. Like I would be way better. But I think I can balance both those things and also understand where my priorities are, which is kind of what I had to change earlier on in this year was my priorities aren't on being the best disc golfer that I possibly can be in this moment. It's having a long career both in disc golf and more importantly on YouTube and being a YouTuber first. And working on this kind of as a hobby with, I don't have a crazy amount of spare time, but a lot of it just goes to my training in terms of both like my body and my disc golf game. And so like in context, I think it's probably the best thing for me because I don't have like this wealth of money that I can draw from to just like do nothing for a year and get really good. And I don't, and I like have a family to support. And so like there's in context, there's no, I don't think there's a better thing for me than what I do to get as good as disc golf as possible, especially because like people are interested in my journey for getting better. And that's kind of how I structure my channel. So like if I wanted to transition some of my content, I do think disc reviews do better for me overall. And I prefer making those. But if I want to transition for a month or two, I'm just like, I'm just gonna focus on getting really good and making daily videos and figure out how to like package that and story tell that in a really good way. I could just focus on getting better for a month if I really wanted to. And that's, I actually have a video that I'm planning on doing with the baby that's kind of partially with this, but I could just do that for a month. And like, because I have the channel, I'm able to do that. And so in context, I think it's way better for me, but in each moment that I'm like filming a video, yeah, I'm way worse than I potentially could be if I wasn't as distracted as I am, but I think it's a good thing overall. - 100%. I think that's exactly the answer I would give in your shoes. Like, yeah, you would have to probably have to find another job which would distract you even more. So that you're making money through playing is like pretty, yeah, it's definitely in context is the best thing. And that's maybe probably where I struggle because I, well, my full-time job, I don't attack a store, but in disc golf is in a different way. It's with like kind of like the expos in podcasting. So when I have that disc golf time and having like, you know, a camera to do it, then that's pretty much like all my time is just like, I don't get to like just like enjoy just playing disc golf. And I do have a tip for that as well. I think one of the things that is helpful for me is, one is kind of how you position your content, the audience that you're going after. For me, I understand that a lot of my like, if I look at my analytics real fast, and I can, if you want to come where as a visual, I can like send you like a link to it. But in the last 90 days, the last quarter, my like returning viewers, I'll just show you this real fast. My returning viewers, so people who've watched my content and come back to watch more of my content, it's 131.3,000 people or accounts. My unique viewers are 205,000 people, but my average video views, I think are like, the median's probably like 14,000, the average is probably like 18,000. And so, if there's 131,000 people who are returning to watch multiple videos of mine in a 90 day period, all I know about that is some people are watching, some of my videos and not others, and like I'm very okay with that. I understand that like this, some people aren't going to watch my disc reviews, some people are only going to watch those, some people aren't going to watch my tournament stuff, some people are only going to watch that. And so positioning that in a way and knowing who your audience is, but then on top of it, every, all my videos include some ideas about form. And some of the territory that comes along with that, or you're going to get comments of like, wow, this guy's just complaining about everything. When sometimes I'm just like thinking through form things, I miss this because of this. And it's like more of an explanation, and maybe it's complaining, like maybe it's an excuse, like I guess you can interpret that how you want, but if you're going out and filming, you can still like, say, hey, I'm also like, hey, this is what we're doing today, and also I'm working on this. And so adding another like a B plot to a video where it's like, okay, we're going to go out and we're going to like play maple reds and try to ace for everything. But on top of that, I'm also working on standstills, or I'm working on this type of pull through, I'm working on my forehand torture, like adding a secondary plot to the video, that is something that you want to work on in disc golf, while you're also delivering on the main crux of the content that you want to do. I think is almost always only additive if somebody is like, not only there to like, oh, I'm reviewing this disc, I just want to see five flights to the disc. Like, that's not how my content's going to be, and I'm never going to make my content like that. Just because that's not what I like making, that's not what I'm enjoying my audience once. And so like, if that's what someone's coming and looking for, they're already going to be dissatisfied. And so me adding in this other thing, like, they're already not going to like that I'm just like bantering and being stupid throughout the rest of the video. But most people are going to be like, oh, this is also interesting. And so they don't have to watch a video and you working on your forehand touch, as well as a video of you reviewing like the Zonos or something, you could put them both together. And you don't also don't have to title and thumbnail it that way because like, that's just too much. Like you just need to, hey, I'm reviewing this thing, but I also really am working on this. And as long as you don't make it like this massive thing, you can think about it in the background and focus on it while also delivering on the main form of content that you're trying to put out. And that way there's like two things that are going on at once and you're still getting better and while you're doing the main thing that you're out there to do. - Yeah, well, I think that's why I personally try and position my content a little different. Like you've probably seen some, I don't post a ton, but it's more like challenges. Like first one to ace or first one to do this or recently I've been kind of switching and doing more sit down kind of disc golf games, nothing really about my performance. And I think that's because I mean, I think you were the, I think I feel like me personally, how you were the first one to really start as like an amateur post consistently, like this is my journey. And then we kind of saw people start posting those same type of videos after you came out and seen that. This is, again, this is just my opinion. And I think you set yourself up as you're the guy for that. And me personally, that's how I think like you're the guy that you go to to watch play, to watch the reviews because that's how you set yourself up. And I think that's why, probably why I'm trying to, I make different, part of the reason why I make different content is because you pretty much have that like locked down, that like kind of like day in the life. This is a dis review type thing, because you know, you get the most views of it. And you know, but that's what people know you for. So I'm just trying to kind of do something different. So that's why I don't really do, I haven't really done any like don't really take the camera with me on the course. But I will say with what I'm with that I want to, I think that's probably my preferred piece of content that I would want to do. It's kind of like what you're doing. It's just I feel like I got to get better because the reason I watch pros is because they're pros. Like like Ganon can record on his phone and like kind of, you know, edit it like without any really anything, how he does and you know, it blows up is because it's Ganon, he's in the same pro. So I want to get, I eventually do want to transition to that kind of like play play with me type style and reviews, but I want to get better enough for people to actually care. And it's not just some like am like 928 rated like, oh like this like come play with me on a whole night. And like no one really, you know, not many people care. It's the brand, it's kind of, but it's the brand you built up. And that's why because people care about you. And I think I want to eventually get to that content, but I feel like I got to get better and by making people care about like how I play, if that makes sense. - I think it kind of makes sense. I think it's also not probably not true. I think you don't need to get better. I think you just, one thing. - Yeah, I'm just in my head. - Oh, I think one of it is packaging things better. Like if you say, hey, come play a whole night and maybe we'll help with me like that was never out. Like I would never really, well, the videos that did well, I probably had some like really bad packaging ones, but there's always something about thing, something that is like intriguing or interesting. Like if I'm going to go back and kind of look at some of my older videos that ended up doing well, like getting started. And I think also one thing just about like, oh, I'm, I position myself in this way and this stuff. That's actually one of the things that is interesting is how I channel now, because now that I'm throwing very high 400s pretty consistently and like still doing disc reviews, like people are, some people are like, man, I can't like relate to your disc reviews as much anymore. And so I'm trying to figure out like, how do I tone that back? So I've introduced my silly second character, Big Tony, where like I throw lefty sometimes to show like, oh, how does this look on a 250 foot line? Like, and that's pretty helpful. But if I'm, I'm trying to go back and look at like when my channel first started doing well, which was when I did like my tournaments. And like, I think a lot of it is the packaging. And then like your personality will come through it because people, like one of the things I was trying to say earlier with my like, now that I've gotten better is that, that space now is probably more opened up because if I was like inhabiting that space of like, the in between of MA2, MA1 and then from MA1 to pro, like if you're 928 rated, like that's the high end of like what you can still play in MA2 before you have to go and play into MA1. And so showing that journey, like there's no one showing that journey now. And there's a lot of people who are in that journey now. Or like, maybe there are some people and I'm not quite aware of them, but figuring out how to position your videos in a way that is interesting to that audience. - Yeah. - And still being there is like, it's gonna be different because now there are some people who are like, just watch me because they've watched me forever. And I really appreciate that. But there's like, I don't serve a certain type of content anymore like I used to. And so now that is more opened up. - Well, I guess that's basically what I was trying to say. I feel like you were the first, you were like the groundbreaking, the first one to really kind of take post, like every day, take people through that journey. And I think that was a huge allure too. It's like, like you said, there was a huge gap in this golf content. Like it was like, you know, so we started this all around tape, but for me it was like foundation, obviously Simon, Jomez, but like there was, in my opinion, like I said, I'm talking from like April 2021, there was like Jesse from Trash Panda, Robby C. And that was like kind of for me, my disc golf YouTube. So when you came on the scene posting like about your journey every day, high quality. And like eventually a majority of people in this area are gonna see one of your videos just because of the output that you're gonna be featured on their four UP or feature recommendations. At least once just because this golf's so niche. So I think that's, I'm just trying to give you your flowers is that I think that's where you did like a great job but you did this thing and now you're like, you know, and you keep growing and now we're seeing more people kind of do the same thing, but I think you were kind of like the start of that Avenue like, here's my journey, here's this reviews, here's this, here's that, but consistently, I know there's this reviews, I know, but it was just like, you were like to me, the first like day in the life YouTuber for disc golf. You know, like I said, I mentioned the other people like Jesse and Robby C, but Robby C was more like, and he's still like more like tips and beginner stuff and like that. And Jesse, his whole thing always was to make this manufacturer thing, but it was just at the start. So I don't know. Yeah, I'm just trying to think of the, I'm just saying why I've kind of like done, done content differently 'cause I'm trying to like kind of do what you've done. Like do a new thing that disc golf hasn't really seen because I think, you know, there's still a ton of room for growth. And I do think I did a good job with like kind of like the acing or getting stuff for money for disc golf. Obviously that's like a Mr. Beast, like kind of type of idea, but I think it wasn't really in disc golf other than like maybe like some skins matches or something like that. But that's why I was trying to, I guess do you, and that's why I'm doing the newer thing of just kind of sit down and do more game styles. So I'm still working through my type of content as well, I'm just like, but enough about me. It's so funny 'cause this is like, this is a disc golf, it's supposed to be like an interview, but it's just like, this feels like us just like, you're in my brother's room again and we're just like bantering and chatting about. I have an idea as well about something that you just said if you wanna hear it. - Yeah, yeah, go ahead. - So one of my thoughts with that is, so if we look at the outliers like a Jay Milley, he comes in first video, 350,000 views, really great at shorts, like very polished phenomenal content created and like just gets it done. That's gonna be like the outlier more than the norm. And so like talking to you and then other people who are potentially interested in getting content, like your like videos are very interesting. I think the packaging could become like a little bit better, like title thumbnails, just getting that a little cleaner, but overall like the concepts and the videos are good. Sometimes it just takes a while for audiences to grow there. And so that's where like your ideas, solid your stuff, keep doing it, but also if you're sprinkling in stuff that like just from historically, like from my channel, from anybody else's channel, like this has worked before, let me try to make, put my own spin on it and do it. Like sprinkling in those type of videos, like YouTube is smart enough to segment out populations of your audience, which is why I shared my like audience analytics because they know that like if I post a video about a tournament, like 20,000 of those people and that 130,000 returning viewers, they're just not gonna show them that video because they know they've shown them that like my tournament videos four times and four, and YouTube's like, man, they do not watch this. They click on it, they click away for 15 seconds. Like I don't need them to see this, but they're gonna surface that to the people who don't watch my reviews and they're like, they only watch the tournament videos. And so if you have, but they're gonna be some of people who watch everything and they'll come in through some sort of content and watch everything. And so growing your overall brand and your presence, if you want to do something new, definitely do that. And if it works, continue doing that. And like do what works and continue on it. But if there are things that have worked before that you could put your own spin on, try those out as well and do both of those things because it might bring the momentum to your new content that is very good that no one else is doing and eventually get it to the point of like, of having good momentum because YouTube is smart and eventually it'll surface content to the right people. But there's other ways to grow momentum than just relying on waiting for YouTube to find this specific video to the right audience. It's why I'm gonna start actually doing a lot more with shorts content to grow one my subscriber base 'cause vanity metrics are fun and I want to see that number go up because I'm a monkey brain and numbers are higher. It means happy things for me. But overall, like doing something that I know works, which is watching how G. Amelia has some shorts I have in the tens of millions. And it's like, okay, let me figure out how to storytell better and make short form content that points directly to some of my long form videos. And when I posted shorts, my returning viewer metrics, like if you, I just, I texted you that screenshot that I have but I don't know if you want to. Oh no, you're good. I don't know if you wanted to overlay it at all if you don't, that's fine. But where you see those big bumps in the returning viewers, that blue line, those big bumps are when I posted shorts. And so, or new viewers, I mean. And so like, that's how I know, okay, there's a way to gain new audiences here. And so posting something that works that you know works for me that's dabbling into more shorts, as well as like trying out new things. And sometimes new things on my channel really work. Sometimes do things on my channel really don't work. But having the consistency of like, I know I'm posting these reviews of these really popular discs. And I'm like doing my main styles of content that I know have worked, while I also experiment with other things, that could be one of the effective ways for people to like grow from a small channel. Just do stuff that you know works, but also try and do things at the same time. And if you only have energy to do one of those, try the new stuff first. And then eventually if it doesn't work, like maybe every four videos do something that you know, like will work or think will work because historically it has, rather than just trying new stuff. If your goal is to grow as big an audience as possible. If you just wanna make really cool new stuff, just do that. It's all obviously dependent on goals. But if you do wanna make like the content that you are talking about, like you wanna make right now, do that as well. And then some people will find your older, other better stuff 'cause they'll be like, "Man, it might not get crazy amount of views, "but the people who do come in, "who are your target audience that you really want "from those videos?" They'll be like, "Oh, I really like this guy. "They're gonna go click and they're gonna be like, "Holy crap, I've seen all these videos." And it's a really good sign to YouTube when someone watches a video and then they go watch one, two, three, four more. That's how your channel grows very quickly. And that's why I posted so much because people get in, they'd be like, "Man, I just binge your last 10 videos." Like I didn't know who you were and now I just binge all your videos. And so now, that's someone that YouTube's gonna recommend my videos all the time. And it's someone who wants to see them, obviously, 'cause they watch a bunch of them. It's not like you're against the algorithm or it's against you. It's like the algorithm is for people. It wants to show the right people the right videos. And so if you're only posting things that people don't have any context for yet, but it's really good, if you can find people through something that they already know and love, like a disc review, or that's my main context for. But like, that's why I always post disc reviews 'cause that's where new people always come into my audience. But like, I'm posting disc reviews who people are interested in this disc and they might not know who I am, but they wanna hear someone's thoughts about a disc. And then they watch the video and they're like, "Oh, I actually do like this guy." Or actually, "I don't like this guy." And so they click off pretty soon. Then like, if they do like me or my content and then they'll go, "Man, maybe look at some other videos." And then the next video that I post, maybe YouTube will surface it to them. And so, bridging the gap between you being the unknown and something that is known to an audience is one of the most helpful ways to do things, which is why disc reviews are so nice because people already know about the disc. That's why I mostly just do like popular companies on my main channel. And I'm starting to try to like find new series and ways to introduce companies or discs that people don't already know, because like I posted a video about like the doomsday disc bunker buster, which is this massive, condor-sized seven-speed. And I could have just said, "Hey, doomsday discs bunker buster review." But if people don't know who that is, the people who know me will go and watch that video and they'll be interested because it's like, "Oh, I'm talking about something that's interesting." But instead, I titled that video a disc. This insane should not exist. And it's like, "Well, yeah, it's crazy." Like, and maybe it's a bit hyperbolic, but I think it's like born out in the content. And if people clicked on that and a lot of people liked it. And so, something like that is like, people don't know what this disc is, but people know that like this can be insane. And they know about PDJ legality. And if I put that in the thumbnail, like bridging the gap between something that is unknown and which is you and something that is known, especially if you're creating newer content, like that's the way to go. And that's why like even J. Millie stuff, like his style is very new, but his title and thumbnail and his packaging is very much things that people know. And if he's the unknown, they can click on it and like be interested. Like his, "I threw the weirdest disc ever." Thin, wide, people know what it is. They know it's not supposed to be thin and wide on two sides. He posted that video. Obviously a short gave a lot of traffic to that as well 'cause that short is on a crazy millions amount of views. But if you were bridging the gap, that's the whole point of packaging something. Your title and thumbnail is like making someone intrigued without lying to them. So it can be like a little bit crazy, but like don't lie to people and there's thumbnail. Always deliver on what you're talking about, even if it is a little bit extreme, but bridge that gap of someone's not gonna know who you are. And I always assume that too. I know there's some of my videos that I know are just for my community and there are some of my videos that I'm like, I'm trying to find a new audience with this. And those videos are much more intentional on my title and thumbnail to make sure that even if you don't know who I am, there's something about this that is already intriguing to you. And so you might wanna comment and then you might wanna find all the rest of my content. I think that's my biggest advice to like people who are getting started is make a lot of stuff and like make sure that your stuff is good, but figure out a way to package it truthfully in a way that is intriguing to a wider audience than people who know you because there's always gonna, there's always more people who don't know you than who do know you. And especially, I think that's especially true for like even myself, like I'm always assuming that there are more people who don't know me than who do because there's always new people getting used to disc golf, there's people who are into disc golf who are just getting into watching videos on YouTube. And so there's always gonna be room to continue to grow. And the people who do know you will know it's you because you're in the title and thumbnail. And so, and this is your channel. - So, let's talk about packaging. So I think this would be a good reference point for any, so you said my packaging could be better. Let's go to like the past, whatever, the few, let's go to the past two video or three, whatever. - Sure. - Let's go to the past two, I don't know. And give me some tips on how my packaging could be better to get more views and hopefully in turn that'll help whoever's listening get. - Sure, yeah. So, let me pull it up on this screen so I don't look like I'm just looking complete to this side. - Yeah, I wish I could overlay it but it's-- - No worries. So, I'm still, I actually been actually talking a lot and thinking a lot recently about packaging 'cause I still think that I have a massively long way to go in packaging my videos very well. So, I'm very much not the expert. - Well, I was listening to a podcast about it too, like calling it in Samir, but they were talking about packaging, packaging it. So I was like, that's why it intrigued me. - Yeah, so for me, the hierarchy of content is topic, packaging content. Your topic has to be really good because if your topic isn't good, you can have the best packaging, best content ever but there's only gonna be a certain amount of people who aren't interested in that. Your topic can be like decent but you have really good packaging, meaning that like that doomsday disc bunker buster, there's not inherently a lot of people who are interested in this but there's a lot of people who are interested in really weird discs. So if I title it about this disc, there's not a lot of people who already know it but if I title it about weird disc, that's a much wider audience of people who would be intrigued about this disc, they just don't know about it yet and so I wanna be someone who introduces that to them. And then the third thing is making sure their content is always super, super good but you can have a really good video and if you can't figure out how to title and thumbnail it correctly and it's not a good topic, like if no one clicks no one's gonna watch essentially. So figuring out the topics first and then a title and thumbnail also go with the intro. So packaging to me is title, thumbnail, intro because if I have a really good title and thumbnail and then I take five minutes to get to what I'm talking about in the title and thumbnail, people are already gone from that video. So I always try to reaffirm and then build on that in the intro of the video. And so it's like, like for instance, my last video I just posted was with my buddy Broderick, we were talking about forehands, I think I titled it, I changed the title a bunch of times because I still have so much room to go where ultimately what I would love to be able to do is have a title and thumbnail already done and ready to go before I go out and shoot the content because I know this is gonna be really solid and yeah, you could change that but at least having that idea down pat and ready before I actually go and shoot it but it just doesn't work like that a lot of times especially posting as much as I do and being as undisciplined as I have been about it. But I think I titled that video like he gave me his pro forehand secrets. And so if you click on that, you expect not only if you know who I am, you expect a new character, you expect two people because you say, he gave me his pro forehand secrets and you also expect something like to be rear from like, why am I watching this? Like, is this video actually good? And so I start out the video with like, in just about 30 minutes before I went from this to this and I show like a four and after. And so immediately there's a verification of like, okay, this worked in some capacity. It's not like this crazy change and I didn't try to pull like the most ridiculous, like terrible shot I've ever thrown in best shot. It's kind of more like, this kind of was the average of what it was and this is the average of what it turned into. And so it went from this to this. And then I, so there's already like, okay, this is good. And this is who this person was. And then I build on that from the intro. And so like, okay, I also have three goals for this video. And so you've been reaffirmed that like the total thumbnail is going to deliver because you've seen it work and then we've introduced a new character and told you that he has 70 mile an hour forehand. You've seen him throw and it's really solid. And then I'm like, okay, there's also three goals that we want to do. And so now you're waiting for those goals to be fulfilled. And so getting all that done in the first like 10 to 35 seconds is something that's really important to me. And so going back to your videos, it's hard 'cause I've watched some of them. I haven't like watched the most recent one and non-disc golf fan guesses prose names. But yeah, I think one, that video, having that be like. - That's my first like kind of newer trying to yeah, because I think I've tried to position myself. The reason also I've tried to position myself in the way I have is because like I run the disc golf exos that takes a lot of time. I own another store. I don't really have time to go out and just like shoot content all the time. So I was trying to position myself as like kind of more like like a Jay Milley like I post once a month but it's a banger type type stuff. And that's why I was doing more interesting like Mr. Beast-esque style videos that are so I could post like once a month and they're very interesting because you know, I have just other things going on. So that's why, and that was my first introduction to like the new style. Because the new style of content, the reason I wanna do that is because I, a lot of these challenges take a lot of time. So I sometimes wanna sprinkle in something that I could just like shoot literally right here, edit it and then. - For sure. So I think with something like that, I think that's that makes it especially important that you've nailed the packaging before you shoot the video because you have so many less at bats. Like that's one of the benefits of posting as much as I do is in one of the reasons why I love it is 'cause I have so many at bats. Like I have so many opportunities to get things right that if I have a bunch of eight out of 10s, which most of my videos are more in like the six, like the four to eight out of 10 range in terms of like my last 10 videos, most of them are average to below average, not like the big crazy banger videos because I just am posting so much that it's okay that I have those because I also have like a more better baseline. But I also just sent you a picture that actually I think Swinky Disc Golf did this really well. So they did disc golf noobs, guess disc prices. And so it's very similar to this. A non-disc golf fan guesses pro names. And so their thumbnail is just so I'm holding up a disc and it's a disc that is obviously very expensive to somebody who knows disc golf. So that's what's known. And then they say $5. And then they're like, okay, what are these crazy guesses gonna be? And so putting something, so like your, if you go into your video, you could probably pull like a still, more of a still from the video instead of the picture that you have of the guy's face. And then like have a picture of Calvin up there like you do. And then one, Paul McBeth is actually that name is covered by the timestamp on there. And just so you can't really see that very well. I don't know. And so just moving that in a way, there's like some, what do you call it? Like guides online for what is gonna be shown and what's not gonna be shown on the thumbnail. But the not a disc golf fan, well, one, there's like four things that you want to be seen in that. You wanna have the guy who's not a disc golf fan's face. You wanna have Calvin, you wanna have the name and then you wanna have the tax not a disc golf fan. And so I think it's better to have two or three subjects total. This is something that's been told to me that people are way better at YouTube than I am. And I'm still getting way better at this. But having not a disc golf fan point to the guy, it's assumed that he's not a disc golf fan because we know who Calvin is and we don't know who the other dude is. And so if you have in the title a non disc golf fan guesses pro names, you're gonna assume that the non disc golf fan is not Calvin Heiberg, but it's the other guy in the thumbnail. And so if you just were to change that arrow to maybe pointing towards Calvin and then put like a crazy name, Paul McBeth pointed at him, a decent name. Also, are you having them guess from a list? 'Cause I haven't watched it. Are you having them guess from a list or are you having them guess just a random name? 'Cause it's a random name that you could just like put something insane on there. - No, it's a, I put up an image and, from a list, yeah, sorry. So put up an image and it's from a list. But there's obviously like a few people that weren't even on image. It wasn't like cross out, like I put like Luke Humphries who wasn't even in the video at all. It's just like to throw them off so we can guess. So actually guess out. - Yeah, I think like one quick change with this thumbnail would be just taking out the non disc golf fan, replacing that with Paul McBeth and then pointing the arrow to Calvin instead of the other guy. What you could also do is change that face from a face to just a still of like him looking confused. Let me see if I can find one really fast. - And maybe should I change it to my face and people might know me more on my channel or. - It could be, I think, so this still right here on number four, I'll send you this as well. So like this is just like a little silly brainstorming session. So his face there is more a little bit intriguing. And so him looking over at that, you could be in the thumbnail as well if you want. I would have a way that you were showing him the thing though. And so if there's a time that you ever hold up your phone or something like that, then replacing you on that left side with you holding up Calvin because that way it's less information. Or just having him look over, but him looking at you in this photo is pretty good, but adding Calvin in and then saying like Paul McBeth and have that over him like in air quotes or in quotations or something. Something like that would be like more intriguing than 'cause the main crux of your thumbnail right now is not a disc golfing. And I think that that gets across in your title. And so having something that is different than that. And so like a non-disc golfing I guess is pro names. And then if we go over to the Simon one, random disc golf challenges for cash and then we have a winner with Simon holding up cash. I think if people saw Simon in a thumbnail, they would almost assume that he was a winner. So if he lost, it might be better to put loser and then point to Simon with a sad face, but he didn't lose so you put winner. And so maybe putting like what the challenges are or one of the challenges. And so if it's like Simon, what did Simon have to do in that video 'cause Simon is great in a thumbnail? - You were there for that moment actually. - Oh yeah it was. - It was that metal broke CTP. You were literally there with us. - Inversed, I think it was CTP on hole one red. How far was that shot? - I don't know, like 250, 300. - Oh yeah, I don't know. - Yeah, just a high. - Yeah, is there? - Yeah, putting something more of like the action that was going on. Random disc golf challenges for cash and then you just have winners. So like, okay he won, but what did you have to do to win? That's more interesting than just the fact that someone won. It's like what are they having to do to win? And so just be, yeah, that's the main thought. And then the other two, getting burgers, cold island for money, frontline back nine, having the same thumbnail on those, you're always in the second one 'cause people think they already watched the video. They're not gonna just, they're not gonna see back nine and assume that they haven't watched that. You're gonna like change that in some way. And maybe adding frontline back nine on the first versus the second one by having some different thumbnails. - Well yeah, I put it under the timestamp, but again, it looks like I'm the king of doing that. Oh yeah, well I genuinely didn't even see that. Like putting that in the middle could be interesting or if somebody won, like having them holding up the money or something like that, or like action is always interesting. That first thumbnail is pretty, I like that first thumbnail 'cause it's you holding up money, they're obviously fighting for it. The second one, pretty interesting, maybe you can go frontline and just put the back nine in the middle of it or some sort of text that has something that is interesting for the video or just changing that thumbnail completely. But I really think the first one, pretty easy change, just change the text to Paul Macbeth and switch the arrow to Calvin and that video would probably do better views already. You could change it to a still, that's a more like interesting photo of him looking over at Calvin and being like, "Is this Paul Macbeth?" And like putting quotes around Paul Macbeth as well because that's showing that he's saying it because otherwise some people who might not know who Calvin and Paul are might just think that like, "Oh, this is Paul Macbeth and you got it wrong." And when it's just Calvin. And so putting quotes around Paul Macbeth is gonna show that that's what he is saying. But yeah, those are some general thoughts. I'm still not great at it. I learned more and more. - No, this helped me though, for sure. Yeah, no, this, and for this to apply to you, obviously you'd have to go to my channel for it to make sense. But I think that's a huge thing that I think will help a lot of people is because I've heard packaging. I think for me, it's just like, I like the idea, like this has turned, unless you're interviewed more of like a podcast, how I do it on fundraising, staggered stance, but that's okay. For me, I think I like the idea of being like a content creator, like you and Jay Milley, but I don't think I have the passion for it in that way. I think because I have, you know, the expos and that's my main thing. I think that's kind of my main, always gonna be my main focus, hopefully and it keeps growing. So I think that's why I'm just kind of like in this weird content where I don't post as much and it's kind of like, but in how it's like, I try to make like kind of unique, it's because like, I like the idea of it and I like doing it, but it's just, I don't know if I'm like super like passionate about being a content creator, just because I have something in disc golf that I really do love and I wanna grow. And it's the same, we take the same approach. We gotta work hard, we gotta add in, try and grow in. And it's just, I have another different avenue. So I think that's ultimately at the end of the day, that's why I post kind of the things I do is 'cause stuff that's entertaining to me and that I wanna do, it's not really, I'm not so much trying to make it go, like get a bunch of subscribers. Like, I want them to get views and stuff like that, but it's just stuff that like, you know, I wanna do. And that's kind of, I didn't know this until recently, but that's kind of like where my journeys led me 'cause I took like, from March on was like my chance at like, you know, becoming like full time in disc golf, trying it out because I was able to, we got like more employees at the shack. So I was able to get more focused on like disc golf. And I think I slowly started to realize, you know, I, content isn't like more of my heart's at. And you know, that's. - But I love podcasting, don't get me wrong. Podcasting, I love podcasting. It's, I think, and I think it's because I can just sit down, do this and I upload it. And then it's, it's, you know, it's up. And I'm talking about more like kind of like going out there and like planning all the shots 'cause I don't think people realize how much brain capacity and how much time it actually takes to plan these things and actually go shoot them. And then, and then edit them, especially. It's just like, you know, it's literally like a, another job, basically. If you, if you're doing what you're doing, I mean, it's your full time job, I'm just saying, but even like, I bet, I bet you've gotten really good at it, but I'd guess like one video through and through takes like at least a decent amount of hours. - Yeah, perfect. - Per video. - I think that's really the key is like, it's not gonna be for everybody. And it's gonna, and that's like one, okay, but also like, it's better to realize that by trying. You know, like, you tried and you don't wanna do it. And that's, you know that better now. And now you're like, you're never gonna be the back of my like, oh my gosh, I really should just be doing this all the time. You know, like, do what you actually want and love to do. Like, I still point at it. - And that's why I think I said the whole, I wanna get better in play because I love playing disc golf. And now I could just have like, if I could just have someone follow me, play disc golf and then edit it. Like that's my dream because I love just playing disc golf. But I understand me as a person, like you said, I have to package, it would have to be a hook. Like there's like, like people just watch like, Ganon or Simon just because it's them and they're pros and they're playing disc golf. It's because, so I think that's why I said what I said earlier is because I wanna get to a point where like, I can just show up to course and play and that's the hook that people wanna see. Not that I, like melted a marshmallow on my disc and you know, try to see what it did. - Yeah, and that's where it's gonna be hard. - Yeah, it was gonna be tough because yeah, like these are the best players in the world. So I'm not saying, I'm never good. - Yeah. - Yeah. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying like, like in an ideal scenario, like it's just like, yeah. - For sure. - Well, - I'm making your new thumbnail actually right now. - Dude, if it's cool with you, I'm gonna send you my thumbnail what I think is gonna be my thumbnail. I'll send you the final product. I won't even brainstorm with you. And then you can critique what you think should be different in my next video. Sounds good. - But yeah, this was definitely a longer disc golf daily episode. - It has to be a professional gapper man. - Yeah, we both are. This is good though. I hope you, if anything, I hope you got from this, if you are an aspiring content creator, just what you can do and how you can do. And how there's so many opportunities and lanes in disc golf and content creation to take up on. I hope this podcast and brainstorm such kind of inspired you to go after 'cause we're obviously very passionate about this stuff. Just in, like I said, different ways, like mine's more of like a, like on a business event side and his is like creating content side. So, yeah, is there anything, any, anyone you wanna shout out before we let you go? - Yeah, shout out, Infinite, my sponsor, main sponsor, they've made it also way easier. Just having more consistency this month or this year. And then my channel, that's it. I don't know, like watching is the best way. - Go follow him in music, right? - Yeah. I also just sent you a new thumbnail for that video. - Let's hear it, ready? I'll pull it up for anyone watching on a, - If it, yeah. - Well, it was so fast. - Yeah. - Okay. - Oh, come on. - Exposure. - Oh, my exposure might be better than see. - Yeah, yours is definitely better 'cause mine's just a workout. - Yeah. - There you go. Yeah, I 100% think, yeah. And I appreciate, 'cause that would have been way better, like way better. But exactly, that's the thing I'm learning. - There's like, there's so much that you just don't know what you don't know. And I feel like that, that's why I always feel like I'm kind of at that bottom of that Dunning-Kruger curve where it's like, I think I know stuff and then there's more that I don't know, I think I know stuff and there's more that I don't know. And the more that you do like that, that's kind of like the hallmark of actually becoming an expert. I feel like it's like you're getting through all of those. I know this, no, I don't, I know this, no, I know this, and I don't. The more of those that you can trudge through, the more of actual expertise. - Yeah, exactly, exactly. And like I said, I'm learning and when to keep learning. And to me, content creation is just always going to be kind of a hobby that I want to do when I have like something to share. When I say content, like I said, video podcasting, I love doing and I'll probably be doing it every week for hopefully ever. But yeah, so thanks. This is like a cool little bootcamp session. And we'll have to get you on the Funzi podcast to actually get some more context on just the incredible things you do. 'Cause that's, our Funzi thing is more of like a content creator focus, I guess about, 'cause we have J-Milly hosting it and Sackgo, who are both, their primary thing is content creation. - Yeah, they're sweet. - So, but everyone go check 'em out. Thank you so much, Anthony. And we will catch y'all later. - Thank you, gotta go change the diapers, peace. (upbeat music) - Thank you so much for watching. Please like, subscribe, comment, and share. It really does help us grow. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
