You're very welcome to Saturday Chronicle on Scariff Bay Community Radio. I hope you're all keeping well this morning. My name is Darolimy and once again just to remind you all we're broadcasting from Bonerati Castle and Folk Park. It's a cloudy overcast day but it's nice and dry and we're outside Belver National School building here in the Folk Village. And just before we go to our next guest, this week starting from today is Heritage Week here in Bonerati Castle and Folk Park. So there's many events running throughout the week until next Saturday. I'll tell you a little bit more about those events in a little while. But first the Ireland Islands are a group of three islands at the mouth of Galle Bay. Inishmore is the largest of the three and inish here is the smallest. And Maktara Okanela, who is the animator here at Bonerati, is a native of Inish here. And he's here to chat with us about Ireland life, the Irish language and so much more. Do you agree with Maktara? Yes, I agree with you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you. Give us a sense of Ireland life growing up in, I have to say, the most beautiful part of the world. What was that like? Yeah, many people say the nicest of the Ireland Islands. All three are beautiful, obviously. And growing up, when I was growing up anyway, it was lovely during the summer. It was very like Bonerati, actually, we'd get loads of visitors and people from all over the world. It was great. And we'd have the students as well, you know, for the Guilteach to learning the Irish. Many people from Cleric came over. Cleric in the Mercaria. And so that would be a great life. It would be great for the teenagers, especially to see all the young people coming. And then the winters then, the winters a bit longer when I was a kid, the tourist season was shorter. Would it be fair to say that during the winter times, living on an island, an isolated island, like an issue? Yeah. Was it considered a lonely time sometimes? Yeah, yeah. You got used to it, you know, in the winters. The weather is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The arms rate. That's right. And you know, as soon as Christmas is over, you'd be looking forward to the summer again, you know. But it was a bit bleak, all right, and there wasn't the same opportunities on the mainland, you know. That time, now there's football, all right, they have Gaelic football. There's photography classes and karashi and knitting and all sorts of things going on. There's more of a community feel like that that you can learn and take part in stuff. But when I was a kid, it was mostly just school and home and then out in the field, you know. But what are there, I'm just thinking, what are there many opportunities socially? When I say social, I talk about, you know, places to go out and meet your friends, you know, go to the pubs, all that, I think, versus younger people who lived on the mainland. I know, no, there wasn't really, we had a youth club every Friday night. Okay, but a lot of younger people now won't watch, I remember a youth club. All right, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, all right. Not really in most places. All right, yeah, they were great. Yeah, we look forward to that, all right. Yeah. And that was just the same people for yourself from school, but basically just outside of school time. That was fun, but during the winter then, no, no, not really. The telly was the main thing. And that was before computers or satellites or anything like that. So it was, but people did visit each other more, you know, and people talked more definitely on the road, you'd meet people, you'd talk. So it was definitely that kind of feeling more and more chanja, as we call it, folklore and stuff that we'd be learning. So the young people had more of a connection with the older people. It was more of an intergenerational, whereas now it's very much the kids and the adults and they don't mix, or especially the older people. We didn't see age really, we saw just Sean or Pather or Moider, you know, we saw just other people. Yeah, we're obviously, we knew other kids and stuff like that, but we understand the value. We understood the value of each age group. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, so it's much better now, whatever the life was at that time. The only thing now, it's kind of, the Irish language is fairly, it's not doing too well at all. No, and we'll get into all the nice ingredients of all that. But can I just talk about it? And actually, you mentioned it there, you reminded me there about it. The Irish language was, it was, I'm assuming very much, pretty much spoken all the time. Oh, yeah, yeah, Irish when I was growing up, and well, into just about 10, 15 years ago, Max, it was very much the language of the place. Whereas now you'll hear much more English in spoken half and half really, you know. And to find out, we'll say the people living on, on, on, on in a share, there is people, mostly speaking English there versus Irish now. No, no, there are some families and, you know, generalizing, but there are families and, you know, by the quality of Irish, if they speak Irish at home or not, they'll have native Irish. Would you have a lot of strangers moving to in a share now? Strangers, as in people marrying in, maybe mostly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From mainland, we say. From the mainland, yeah. From non-Guelterte areas. Yeah. And so, so, see, long ago it was rare where people did. My own mother came from Dublin, you know, and there was a few, but they kind of integrated with, and there wasn't enough of them coming in, but, because people were mostly marrying between, on the island or other islands. So that's, the Irish was very strong still. So now, straight away, the people coming in, they don't have the Irish on. But maybe, nowadays, there isn't as much pressure on them to learn the Irish, you know, good pressure. So they don't feel, they just feel like they're in some part of Ireland. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of them do, but, you know, there's classes for them and things like that, but whatever's going on, it's definitely the language. You know, there's the argument to, oh, it's a better to have people on the island or have the language on the island, but can't we have both, you know. But at the moment, it's the people, the population is very strong. It's very strong. Yeah, it's 300, but there's each age group as well represented, you know. There's plenty kids, there's two schools, you know, the primary and the secondary. And if we have a name as well. So all that is sorted. And everybody speaks Irish. The teachers, they all speak native Irish, and they're doing their best for play to them. But it's at home you want the language, if they can't. But because usually, all of the parents, if they're not both speakers, at least one of the parents speaks Irish natively. But I've seen and I hear that they don't speak Irish to the kids. So that's the only way the kids will really learn the parents. Yeah. And I don't know. It's an inferiority complex, I think. Absolutely. Most a lot of Irish people have. Even the ones who are confident, like myself, I do have some in their inferiority complex about it, you know. But I fight through it and it annoys me when I see somebody who can, and it doesn't matter if it's Irish or French or whatever, if somebody has a language, that's the least I can do is to pass it on to their kids, you know. Whether it's Irish or English or French or whatever. But I just did a bit of googling yesterday. Yeah, yeah. And I came across the latest dash from the 2022 central statistic office figures. And it was about the whole thing around the Irish language. And people whose highest level of education was secondary school was the largest group among those who spoke Irish but did not speak as well at all. Oh, that was 69%. So there's seriously something wrong with it. Oh, yeah. I was saying, I see people here especially in the park now. I see parents around my own age. You know, people in the 30s and 40s and they have kids. And I say, I would say Kerri-Wiltube, but I know around here it's monstrosity. Different dialect. Yeah, so, but I say kind of Satoshi. And the kids will look at me as if I'm speaking... Alien or whatever. Where's the parents will say, oh, how much command? Yeah. So suddenly I realize, and because I've done it a lot, that the parents who are taught very, very badly have better Irish than the kids who are going to school right now. So it's getting worse. Whatever. And it was atrocious. It has been for decades atrociously taught. So I think it's time to get a campaign going or something like that to sue the government, to sue the education. Right, okay. And get our money back. If that was anything else, any other service. And after 12 years learning, I'm doing finger quotes here. Learning the language. After 12 years. And I wish I could go into any shop, anything, and I'd talk to you, anybody, and not have to speak English. You know, you don't have to speak perfectly or anything like that. But I can, you know, I wish I could speak to Irish to everybody. So I always feel like a minority, and it doesn't do anything. So yeah, so if that was any other service, we'd want our money back, basically. But for the likes of myself, and you know, that's the point that you mentioned. I mean, I spent 13, 14 years all together in primary and secondary school. And I actually have very little Irish company. You're not too bad now. No, no, no. I mean, I'd love to be more fluent on it. So, I mean, with that mind, is there, how would you approach the teaching of Irish for someone like myself, who isn't fluent in Irish, who would like to improve on it? Well, one thing, especially people who've gone through the system now, that they have more Irish in their heads than they realize, that's the one good thing from it. You've definitely more vocabulary. Even the grammar, it's not alien to, like we mentioned earlier. So there's people over in London and New York and all over the world who maybe had Irish ancestors who want to learn Irish, but they've zero Irish in their heads. So they're paying hundreds, if not thousands, over the years to learn Irish, and they would wish they would have what an average Irish person would have. So if you look at it financially, you have loads already. So all you have to do is clack then maybe do a Kirklkora. Start talking to other like-minded people who maybe want to go back to the answer. And I've noticed that more than ever now, people are, "God, I want to learn Irish." And they're not saying, "I wish I could." They're saying, "I want to do it." Because it is a beautiful language. Oh, yeah, and it's ours. It is, that's ours. English, we're talking English. I'm not to be patriotic or anything like that. But the Irish language is in us and the English language doesn't suit us. Now, we've made it our own and it's charming and everything like that, but that's because of the Irish going through. And I always say, you don't have to be anti-English language to be pro-Irish. I love English language. You know, all the films and most spoken language in the world. But there you go, and it's very handy. That's one good thing. Absolutely. We go to any country in the world if we decide on the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love English, but I love German, I love French, I love Polish, I love every language. Yeah. And I love Irish, but Irish is dearest to my heart. Absolutely. And do you speak Irish's whole mouth? Yeah. Have you a family? I do. Oh, yeah. They've lovely in the sheer Irish. They've picked up all their Irish's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I track Irish to them. So that's the least I can do. So after that, it's up to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We see that that is the thing. You know, once you leave school, a lot of us, there is no place. Like here in what? There is no place where we are encouraged to speak Irish. Therefore, you will lose the words. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even from the Gulf, I met a guy from the, from Kanamara the other day. He's been living in New York for 30 years, something like that. I was talking Irish to him. And it was as if it was some ancient, distant memory to him. He couldn't understand me, but he couldn't get the words out. Yeah. And so, so even if you're native speaker, if you're not speaking, it'll start losing. There's a little spit joke on the chair there beside you. Little rabbit. Oh, my God. It's a joke. Yeah, yeah. It's a spit joke. It's a joke. It's a joke. It's a joke. The monster Irish. Beautiful. You've been awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, come here. Magdara, you are a channel singer. Yeah. Can you tell us where did you learn all that tradition of singing? Well, just like Irish, you know, it just comes with the territory. You know, it's just part of... 'Cause when you're singing, you're singing... We don't say sing a song on the chandos. You just say just sing a song. But it just happens to be in the bracket of chandos, you know, because chandos means old style. So sometimes, yeah, yeah. Let's say in the Pope at home, somebody be singing a ballad or something like that, or even a song in English. We're not against. We love songs in English, actually. But somebody then would say, "Ah, abradora and a chandos. Say a song on the old style." So you sing a song on the old style, you know. Yes. And we'll say, "What age did you start or is it beginning to sing?" I can't even remember. Kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're a kid. But then you probably learn it when you're about ace. Learn. Somebody actually teaches you the song. But you'll have a verse or a line or something of songs already. And you'll have heard, you know, the style. 'Cause it's all about the style as well. It's the same, you know, Claire. We're in the Mecca of Irish music here. When you hear somebody playing, you'll have Michael on later. And you hear them playing. There's chandos in that style. That's their chandos. Chandos isn't just about singing. You'll hear the ornamentation or the... You know, you'll hear. Whereas if somebody learns that from somewhere else or something like that, you might recognize the melody, but it won't be in the same style, you know. So it's the same with... It's something... So you're going to... You know, very good. I mean, will you sing it to a little bit of an Irish person? Will you sing something first? Well, yeah, yeah. What do you want to do? Maybe one you all know, it's a very violent song about a woman who goes... She's angry at a woman who took her man. It's kind of like Jolene, you know, Dolly Parton. Yes. But the Irish version of it. And I'm sure you'll all know it. I normally play this with a violin, but I'll just do a proper chandos. Proper chandos is a capella. Why not? Actaro, canada, take her away. All right. (SINGING) (SINGING) (SINGING) (SINGING) (SINGING) Oh, my gosh. I don't know where I'm going. That was absolutely fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, people, a lot of the songs, people you can sing, and I might have a happy melody or something like that. Oh, yeah, but there's this woman. She's saying, "Oh, I wish your legs and your bones were broken." Because she's jealous that the woman... Parton is a little kid listening there, but this is... Instead of being angry with Pajin, she's angry with the woman who took Pajin from her, you know. So there you go. (SINGING) It was absolutely fantastic to have you here today. Many thanks for joining us. Oh, and do check out my weekly column in the clear echo. Oh, sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Makala Enchlaj. You never know. I have my thoughts on Irish. Sometimes it's very simple about something that's happening in Irish, but sometimes it'll put my thoughts in there, and there'll be a little glossary there if you want to learn a few couple of people. There you go. Very good. Ojara, can you have many thanks? We're going to maybe have a song now, one that's all very familiar with us. It's definitely an anthem for this county. It's clear my heart, my home, and would be back to you in a couple of minutes.
