Monsters Up North Podcast
Monsters Up North - CANDYMAN
It's a perfect night, Mr. Ian Holland. The air itself is filled with monsters. Children of the night, what music they need. It's a lie, it's a lie. Hello all you monster fiends and thank you for joining us for another deep dive factoid filled episode exploring Hollywood's most famous monsters. I am a hero of Mistress of Terrimony's Sam and I am joined, as always, by Dan. Complete a marvel and say hello Dan. Hello. Hiya. Just imagine if she said that in a car park. Okay, rest it. Hiya. Hiya. I'm going to do that from now on. Oh, hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Monsters, Monsters, North. I don't know where I was going. Oh, yeah, I'll go with that one. I don't know where I was going with that, but hi. And thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining us last week. Zara was a health against, loved having her on it, just felt like she was just, oh, the furniture. It was very easy. It was. It was lovely. You can't wait to have her back on again. But she's not here this week because, you know, sorry about it. It's supposed to be going to deal with it. We've got to deal with us too. And I was shunned and against this week, and this week, it's a, it's an interest in one. And I'm thoroughly looking forward to diving into it, so I'm going to get to just clean around the way with, and then we can get started. I'll change my voice back to normal, so I wish I'd stop saying that. Why do I keep saying that? So, everything discussed in today's episode is our opinions and our opinions alone. If you'd like to discuss anything from today's episode, please come and join us on our Facebook pages, or the Discord, or the comment section where we can have no discussion. But what we won't have is anyone coming for us in town, as our opinions are wrong, because we can all agree to disagree in fandom. So let's keep it fun, keep it kind, and keep the toxic behavior out of nerdism. Don't be a dick. Just don't do that. Don't do it. I'm going to apologize in advance if it sounds like I am slurping. I have gone and put my numbing lipstick on again. She will never learn. I have a lipstick that makes my lips go absolutely numb, so it just feels like I'm about to dribble everywhere. So I apologize. I'm just kind of a lady. I don't think they had this in mind when they created the red lipstick. I can already see where tonight it's going to go. Yeah. Right. All right, I'm going to change my voice again. You ready? I am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the classroom. Without these things, I am nothing. So now I'm a shed innocent blood. Come with me. Two, the 1992 in 2001, a Gothic supernatural horror film written and written and originally directed by Bernard Rose and later written by Jordan Peele and directed by Nina de Costa. Based on Clive Barker's short story The Forbidden, the film follows a Chicago graduate study student even completing a thesis on urban legends and folklore. We dare you to see his name five times. This monster of North brings you candy man. Don't be asked to say it five. I mean, that's a lot. That feels like the lot given the Bloody Mary was three times. Well, when they wrote the original script, do you know how many times it was supposed to be? No. Thirteen. Shut up. It was supposed to be thirteen times in the mirror, you say, the greeting to the certain sweet man and he appears after thirteen times and then like the director was like, actually, we'll be here for fucking ever wait for them. For eternity. Yeah. I cut it to five. Oh. Well, I'm pleased. I'm really, really pleased. So the original film stars the amazing Tony Todd as handy man. What an unusual name to give such a amazing horror icon. Candy man. I think it's because of the backs, it's not though, it's to do with the forbidden, the Clive Barker version, this is where it gets muddy, right? The Clive Barker short story, which was from volume five of the book of blood, the forbidden is all about rundown block of flats in the seventies in Liverpool in the worst parts of Liverpool at the time. And the candy man himself was a large white man who has yellow skin and a big red ginger beard, right? We sound delightful. And the reason why they called him candy man was because the color of his skin was yellowy, so they, it sort of derives from that. So when you look at the, it sounds like that Simpson's character, the Scottish one, oh God. It's like really, yeah. I was thinking comic book guy more myself, but you know, like a man, he's probably got jaundice or something and we're like mocking him. That was the thing. And, you know, the story is very similar, but not really where we're going with it. You know, when Clive Barker did the original, he was making a commentary on the class systems in Liverpool at the time, which if you're politically, this is the thing, right? With all of these, the original story, the 92 version, the 2021 version, don't know about the two middle sequels because I'm discounting those because, no, thank you, but when you dissect it, it becomes an incredibly political quagmire of themes and it's like, it's very hard as someone who hates political movies in general, like I'm not someone who likes political subtexts. Mm-hmm. Even though I like Star Wars, but okay. I mean, I think space, bloody politics is a little bit easier to get your noggin around in respect of that, you know, you see that wash the corn was jubers, but you know, it's not real, you know, when you're dealing with, I mean, you know, candy man's not real, but the politics that, you see, the candy, the politics that surrounds him is real. And I'm not one for political horrors because I don't know what to put myself and I don't know what that says about me. No, it's, I totally get it, it's so difficult to be like, and this is what I all with. This is what I found about this and on my first view and now it's better yet. I had seen candy man before today, however, it was literally a couple of years ago. It wasn't that long ago. And I didn't know where do I, where do my feelings fit in this? And it took a long time to break it down and the second and third one did actually, even I've not seen it, I know the stories in them and they do actually help because they don't tell you Tony Todd candy man's name until the second one, which is Daniel Robert, Robert Hill. Robert Hill? Yeah. Yeah. So it's, but I don't know, it's a, it's a hard one. Yeah. It's hard. As a, as a white person in England, which is where the book was, the book was written in, in England, and it was based around a predominantly white area, however, when Bernard Rose took it, he took it to Chicago and he took it to, he took the premise of it being the most socio, go to the most poorly socio economical part of the town. And that just so happened to be Cabrini green at the time. So it made sense that the thing would then be rooted to people of color or black people depending on who was in the area at the time. So it is an awkward thing when it comes to us talking about the third one for me because yeah, empathize as clearly, I am not a person of color. I can only talk about my experience as a person watching the film, not being able to experience or empathize with the social themes, I'm just watching it as a movie. So I'm not seeing the political undertones and I'm not going to make comment on any of that because I want to make it very clear, I'm not going to pretend to understand because I don't know. And yeah, I've been born with looking like this and it's awarded me certain privileges in life that I know people don't have, so it's not going to come in on that sort of stuff. No, no, and I totally agree. And I think for the rest of this, we literally look at it just as the story is and not look into the palette. I mean, there's some parts that's going to come out because obviously the story dictates that, but not going to delve into a lot of detail on it. I don't think we're the right people to do that. No. But even the first one, it skirts around it, so you can sort of touch on it, but with the newer one, John Peel produced, the new one, it mainly is the theme, I feel like. It's very theme-heavy, thematic throughout the whole thing, so. This is a movie I am going to have to talk my with and I've already done this once. I watched this when it first came out, the 2020, the 2021 one. I watched when it first came out and I had to talk it through with Anne at the end. Even though Anne has never seen Candyman at all. Plus that man's heart mind, he really puts up with a lot of shit from me and he's never seen Candyman, but I had to talk it out to him in order for me to understand what it is I just watched. And I've gotten watched it again today and I have probably more questions now than I originally did when I first watched it. And maybe because I was paying more attention, but I was on my own. But I might have been playing on my phone this time around, I wasn't. So yeah, and I have questions, but first I want to go into the first film before we go into that film. That one. Did you know that they used Caprini Green in real life? Yes. And they had to make a deal with the drug dealers and the gang leaders to get to be able to film inside Caprini Green. Yeah, because they wanted it to be as real and feel as real as it did because they wanted to bring uncomfortableness to the people watching, because they wanted them to be forced to be put into the shoes of either person like Helen and a friend or of the people that lived there. There was like that they wanted that kind of like you to feel every minute. That's why when Philip Glass wrote the soundtrack, he made it as beautiful as he did with the theme that Dylan's theme. Yeah. And I have managed to turn into a two-pack song without realising it. I've been singing it all day and just been going do, do, do, do, do, do. And it's not even that song, it's a two-pack song, but it's so beautiful. And I do love it every, and I did like its use in the 2021 as well. There is some aspects of that film I liked, but a lot that I have to question about. So Candyman, the key in the man, should we just go through the film and just add bitten as we go along? 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I think that's what happened to me. I think that's what happened to me. I think that's what happened to me. I think that's what happened to me. It gives me time. It gives me time. Yeah, they take the time with certain scenes that I don't feel like you need that amount of time with. But it helps you. Sort of. Some what you've just seen or what you think you have seen. Because in the sequel or Jason or whatever we're going to call that thing. They use a lot more tricks in that to keep your subliminal mind going, where is this one? They give you those. Those. Empty pauses, those long scenes that you don't really need to see to be able to take in the level of horrificness that's just appeared to you, you know, like regardless of whether you think a man holding 20,000 bees on his face and in his body and in his mouth. It's not. And he did. And he did. Tony Todd. What a fucking legend putting little baby bees. These bees were bred specifically for this purpose. And they were put into a good home afterwards. And however, Tony Todd legend that he is negotiated for every sting he received. He got an extra. Ground. Yeah. Extra thousand dollars. And he got still 27 times. Yeah. I've seen reports from 23 to 27. But I mean, just to make an extra 27, 27 grand on set when I don't know what his wage was from the movie. And as a relative unknown, I'm guessing it wasn't super high anyway. So to walk away in the 90s with 27 grand, that would be a hell of a lot of money by today's standards. You're probably looking at about 80 grand by today's standard. Yeah. They're all baby bees. And like I said, from what I read, because I did have to read them to make sure that the bees were killed. Yeah. They got sent off to a hive. And do you know that the same guy who breeds the bees was also responsible for a very traumatic death for nearly every child of the 90s. Yeah. Yeah. He needs his glasses. Where are his glasses? Yeah. My favorite story, Jamie Lee, tell the story. I think he was on the Graham Norton show. And this always sticks with me when they were on site because of Anna Komski and Nicole and being on set. Her and Dan Akroy weren't allowed to sweat. And she said, I've got the worst potty mouth in the world. So I empathize massively. She said, so any time the crew swore I swore for it. For shit you put in a dollar for fuck you put into. She said, so we had these two like massive jars. And at the end of the filming, when they wrapped up the bit where they jump in the water together, her and McCauley at that point, they get out, they're wrapped around, you know, and she said, I walked up to them. She said, my game. And one of these big, you know, there was like, she said about $500 in each one of these. She said, they gave it to each of them. And I just stood there and they looked at me and I went, fuck you. And walked off. I only Curtis told McCauley Colkin, fuck you when he was about eight or ten. However, I wasn't that film. So legend. I had a very depressing moment the other day. We were talking at work because I do work with one of my French's a little bit younger than me. And we like to do what you didn't. What did you know? What have you not seen because you didn't exist at the time? Oh, God. And my girl came up. And I went, I'm leaving this conversation. It's a conversation that depresses the shit out of us. Because I went to, well, what was the first film you ever saw in the cinema that you can remember seeing in the cinema? And I was like, well, as all dogs go to heaven. And she was like, mine was Hercules. I was like, yeah. Labyrinth. Oh. Wow. I mean, we're not that far off an age. So we can't get too repressed. Labyrinth, the care bear movie. Back to the future too. And. A movie. There was one more, but they were the three that stick out the most to me as a kid. Like the three I remember going home alone. So that's remember going to see them to 11 there. Yeah, I remember going to see home alone because it was at the Metrol Center. And it was the first time ever we were seeing a film in the Metrol Center. And it was when the IRA were very much active and we got removed because a bomb threat came in. And I didn't get to see home alone at the big cinema. I was devastated. But that goes to show it like how very rarely you could afford to go to the cinema when I was a kid because yeah. That that was a luxury. Yeah, those four movies were seen over a period of four years. We're talking, I think labyrinth was nine six, nine seven, then care bear movie. Then obviously back to the future part two and then, and like home alone came out in. 91. So. My first ever pirate movie was Jurassic Park. That was a fucking Marvel. That was like, that was magic. We used to have a man in a van who used to come around and get the special video. Not that kind of special video tip. And, and yeah, and my granddad rented and Jurassic Park sold it to his dinosaurs. And it was this, it was someone recording from in the cinema. And it was like, holy shit. Little did I know what the future held. Yeah. Should we get into the, the films, the film. Yeah, I mean, I mean, and we don't have to go by scene by scene, just a brief talk. I want to just quickly have a chat about the guys who designed Candyman because this isn't what you look like in the forbidden again. I mean, some weird alien folks, I couldn't find much because there's not a lot out there at all about the behind the scenes of like how they got there and all this sort of stuff. But I couldn't find anything. I even had the time to go and look for like stuff in on YouTube and very little on YouTube to do with Candyman. Yeah. There's, there's two guys this Bob Keene. And then there's, I want to say now, give me on his pronunciation of surname but Mark Coolier. Oh, cool. Yeah. I'm not really sure it's one that we'll go with cool. Yeah. And but Bob worked on Hellraiser nightbreed life or crystal star wars Superman. Bob worked on poor things Elvis. Suspiria. Geez, why can I never get that first time. X-Men Harry Potter, AVP and Event Horizon. So they had this. I mean, obviously a lot of those are newer than that movie when it came out, but they had it from being on Star Wars and Superman alone they had a knowledge of how to present iconic. Because you look at the cat hair in Superman alone like the characters in Star Wars alone. They are characters that are iconic you could have their shadow and you know exactly who they are. So for them to be able to do the same thing with Candyman. It's so simple, but yet so rememberable, rememberable. Is that a word? Rememberable. And but you do remember, you do remember. Where am I? Where's my brain gone to? This is going to be like a serious one. This is serious topics and serious movie. Where is my mind in the toilet? Yeah, but it's such a memorable look. Yeah, just and it's very simple. The court, the hook, him, he I think overall, he is the embodiment. You could put him in fucking and you could wear a T shirt and jeans. And he himself and his presence would make that work. Because is it. Yeah, I mean, I saw a video where they said Tony Todd could have paid John coffee. But Michael Cluck Duncan couldn't have played Candyman. Yeah, no, no, because yeah, no, he's really tough. No, I could not see that at all. I could see. I could see Tony Todd with that velvet voice. Oh, my God. It doesn't actually speak like that. You do know that. You can still do it. Yeah, basically, he, when he got the part, he realized that he needed to give it something that seemed otherworldly like that had like a resonance to it like it just gave a feeling. To get it for it to have a response, rather than, you know, just a melodic sound, you know, whilst he manages to nail that when he's gone. Hello, you know, it's like he manages it. But he dropped his register by an octave and he even pushes it to two octaves at some point when he drops his when he drops his register. And that's just talking. That is really difficult to do talking. Singing easier because you can pull it through melodies, but talking, he had to retrain himself to drop to as low as he is because there's a video on my tick tock and Tony did a small video for the page a couple of years back in 2022. Yeah, and you hear he's not as deep as you anticipate him to be because obviously that's what, but you kind of got that impression because he's in the crawl like I know I'm more because of the crawl. And he doesn't really talk like that in there. His voice is quite low, but it's like, when you're up against the guy who plays the villain and I can never remember that guys name and he's fucking phenomenal. When you're up against him when it comes to voices. Yeah, you're not going to win. No, I mean, for the, for the more younger audience. Tony, if you haven't seen Candyman and you won't see it. You should. But first, secondly, he is the, he's either the coroner more technician or somebody in final destination movies as well. He's one who explains death. Yeah. He's one of them and they're, you know, they're not. Yeah, he's, he's a good actor who doesn't get enough roles because people don't know how to cast it. I think that's a lot to do with it. I feel like they're waiting for that creepy mysterious character. Oh Tony Todd will take him. We love interest. He's proven that he's more than capable of doing a love interest. So yeah, because he loves in this film in his own special way. The only reason he came back. Because he loved that I use Helen in air quotes purely because we don't know what the name of the lady was. No, we don't know his actual true love, but Helen isn't embodiment to him. Yeah. And, and, but not, it possibly not in, in name. And, right, we'll go through a few years ago. Yeah. Only because I want to talk about how much of a shit her husband is. Is that the Berkeley fuck me that man is fucking from the second he comes up he just screams red flags. Yeah. Oh, you are just an absolute shit bag. And, but I'm surely I'll say that many times if we're going to talk about this film because yeah exactly for those of you again that haven't seen this film. He has been in Terminator two, he was a vascular is husband when they were supposed to be adopting or fostering John, and he was in the walking dead he played one of the many dictators that they've had along the way in the walking dead. Yeah, it's actually actually crazy but yes he's a totally forgot about the walking dead and now I can pick it up. It's a shit bag and that no he plays shit bag very good. But Helen Lyle, our hero, not our victim, but our hero, and a heroine, if you want to get it right is a university researcher now is she just a researcher and urban legends, because that is one hell of a job. I'm not sure what the real job was because I mean it's not really a job to be a researcher of urban legends that I mean to me it sounds like she was at. She was working there to write theses and maybe teach I'm really not. It kind of give me big bang vibes, you know how Sheldon and then work in a university, but really are doing thesis work and practice work, it almost felt like that because she kept referring to this paper that she wanted to write and she had to do it before her husband. My friend was going to relate she wanted to do it before him it was going to be groundbreaking within urban how you can do groundbreaking stuff and urban legends. I don't know unless you can fucking prove it which I guess is what she was trying to do I don't think it intended to start that way, but it certainly ended that way. She ends up, I don't know if if Candyman is even coming to the equation in the beginning, or it's just something she falls upon. She's researching, they do a bit of her when her, I think it's Bernadette, her friend, are into people about urban legends and then the cleaner comes in, and she starts, she mentions to the cleaner or something that oh do you know anything about any urban legends and she says, oh yeah the one about Candyman and my friend knows him, you know, and then she calls in the other lady the other cleaner lady who comes in and she's like yeah it's over at Cabrini Green my friend lives there and the whole thing with Ruthie Jean we all know it was Candyman and so she gets hooked from their story and that's how Bernadette decided to go to Cabrini Green to have a look with. Yeah, turns out great, and yeah work they're working on a thesis on how Caprini Caprini Green residents use the Candyman legend to cope with the hardship of equal, I can't say the word in its quality. Yeah they basically use the Candyman as a form of justice on. So that's the story in general isn't it, the thing that's coming back is to claim justice so if there justice has been prevailed. But yeah they used him as like the icon to say oh you better be good otherwise Candyman will get you, you know it was this whole kind of like the thing like as you see with that little kid Jake. So adorable. Did you hear they called him one take Jake, because he was that fucking good. He nailed his lines every single time and so they only had to do one take with him. I think his name was Dewan, and he went to the they went to the premiere and Dewan was so scared he said can you only call me and when it's my bits. I mean that's the same as a 15 over here in NC 17, it was going to get an R rating, which will be an 18 over here, but they cut the scene down that when she's in the room with her doctor, but we'll get to that bit, and that's since where they cut the scene down to be able to get the NC 17 rating because they knew more people will be able to go to 15. So that makes a lot of sense well Helen and decides she gets quite obsessed with Cabrini green to the point where she keeps she goes back, and she goes back alone after she meets the kid and he tells her of the candy man and he's, you know, he's very real, and she walks into what and do you know what I could smell that toilet. When she walk in the door, yeah, yeah, I could smell that toilet. And, and I felt really uneasy when she was in there. And a man with a hook on his hand walks in and claims to be the candy man. You found me. I'm here with a lot of drug dealers around me too. Yeah. Because that's how I roll bitch. Well, I mean they wrote, and they're a current theme you see everywhere and either graffiti or shit is sweets for the sweet or sweets to be sweet. And it's from William Shakespeare's Hamlet. A lot of people get the same wrong, they say it's sweet for my sweet, like the song. And that's not the quote, the quote is sweets for the sweet. And that's why there's a fucking easy for you to say. That's why there's this reoccurring theme about it all the way through because they wanted to reiterate that candy man is there in ghost in writing in just reminding you can constantly be good or you'll get you. Yeah, my mum used to tell me Santa Claus wouldn't come, you know, massive difference. Yeah, massive difference. Do you know in my in my north, I've put his name the Daniel Robert Robert. Robert I, Robert I, but they never see it. They never see his name. It's like I said earlier, it's not until the second one so I don't know why I brought it and therefore, but I did go. It's because I went and found out. Because I was like, how's he got a name if he's got a past he's got a name. And I was like, have I missed something because it's me like I can, I can miss quite a bit. And but no, had to go on, had to go and find that one out and I wrote it all in my notes. And but yeah Helen gets a good massive clock that hit was brutal. Yeah, massive hits are right across the face with these the end of his. Oh, okay hook. Yeah, he's hooky hook. And yeah, he's with that and she ends up in the hospital. And, and the police are very much on her side at this point like very much on her side like oh my God. You know, victim, poor you will find them will will get him and they do. After a line up viewing and that that relationship soon very much changes. Yes. Poor Helen. Sorry for. She. Some they are in the club. This is the bit where she's in the light. They all this has happened. She's finally getting a bit better. And she walks back through the car park. Now this is 44 minutes in at this point where your first introduced to Tony Todd. And in the car park where he's calling a name and she turns around and she's like, do I know you. And he walks to a, you know, and there's this whole seductive he sort of floats or glides towards her, you know, the effortless kind of movement about him, you know, and it's not done. You know, he's just trying to be involved like the gentleman kind of floating. It's just a gentleman. Yeah, it's kind of this. Just very regal way of moving. He has like this very. Elegant. Yeah, elegant. Yeah, that's the word I'm looking for. And then he sort of hypnotizes her from there and then I'm right and saying she wakes up in the toilet. The lady that saw she met before when her and Bernadette were walking around Capri Green they bumped into a woman who had a young son, and they kind of got chatting with her. And when she wakes up from a hypnotic state, she is absolutely covered in blood in her bathroom. The woman is I mean hysterical. To be fair, I would have been exactly the fucking same. But my reaction would be I'd be doing exactly the same to her. She's just done to my fucking dog. Honestly, that is the one seat that that split second when you see the dog's head. I have to remind myself real. It's not real. It's not real. It's not real. I think whoever did the special effects on that dog's head, Chef's kiss to you because you turn my stomach every time. It takes a lot for me to get a reaction. But dogs will always do it and every time when I say that bit, I forget about it, I block it out of my memory and I watch this from another arm. Yeah. Well, where we have to go down and she's basically hanging over that lady with a meeting. She gets caught in the worst times, doesn't she? Like my goodness. Why is she waving to what bloody meat cleaver at this lady? Well, because she loses her temper, doesn't she? Like she's gone from this woman has been completely hysterical and I think she lashes out of her and Helen loses her temper and goes to react. She's got a fucking meat cleaver in her hand and the police kicked the door in and Helen is arrested for the first time. And the police, the same policeman who she dealt with originally after her attack is no longer playing Mr Nice Cop with her anymore. What she's done is horrific and he almost feels like it's personal. Yeah, the baby gets kidnapped and it's personal. And so, yeah, not on her side. No. But Helen shitbag of her husband does come in there, get out on Bill. Later on, you know, after he's had a late night. Yeah, with one of his students, you know, let's not sugar the pill. He is the cliched professor, banging his student, like, and that's how I feel like they met. At the same time, I feel like. Yeah, I don't think, yeah, I think Helen there might be walking around with Raw's tinted glasses on when it comes to that man. Because he's done this before. She even says to him, like, she couldn't look me in the eye when she's walking out of the empathy thing, the lecture room. She said she couldn't look me in the eye. What are you playing up? And he was like, Oh, I can't help it. She lost my charisma. You know, you know, they're just and he sort of plays it off and she just goes, yeah, whatever. And it's just like, you know, he's like, you know, I wouldn't. She's like, yeah, I know you wouldn't. But you, you know, he would eat. Yeah, you are walking around. We all get up your ass. If you think that that man is not banging everyone. Sorry. I really just like husband. So yeah, Helen gets bailed out and starts going through her photographs while she's at home. Yeah, of what she took a Cabrini green and long behold. The fella, standing behind one of them. Yeah, shot seeing him in the background of the pictures. It's a good job. She could because I fucking couldn't. I was like, what am I meant to be looking at here? That is just a smudge. How can you, how does your eye directly go to that smudge. And then he comes into focus. Yeah. And then he appears in the house, like where she is. Well, Bernadette comes to the door and he's already in the house. Yeah, I feel a very, this is where he does the explanation before he kills Bernadette, isn't it where he says, I now have to kill spill the blood of the innocence that people will remember me. They'll keep talking about me, you know, because that's what keeps him. Oh, his ghost relevant because technically that's what he is. He's a ghost. Well, yeah, and if people, and if people are sorry, I just remembered the end and when he said he's a ghost. But yeah, and the memory of him is the reason why he probably is more. A woken and obviously his stories being out there. And a bit just to go over his story and the friend who the friend of shitbags and the friend of shitbags who Helen wants to annihilate with this amazing paper that she's doing already knows about the legend of candy man and he tells it. And how we was a African American man born in the late 1800s as a son of a slave who grew up, who grew up, who grew up to become a well known painter. Yeah. A detail that will come into play later after he fell in love with an impregnated a white woman, her father sent a lynch mob after him, the mob cut off his right hand and smeared him with honeycomb stolen from wherever. In B is it stung him to death his corpse was burned in a pyre erected on the site where Cabrini green forms were eventually built. And that's what Cabrini green is doing throughout the film is building the pyre. Yeah. It's become a tradition it's almost like, you know, a bonfire night. Yeah, it's it was a 70 feet wide and 30 feet high by the time they finished building that I'm sure I've seen a bigger one in my field. They use 1,500 gallons of propane as well on it. He was my fucking wheelie bin when they did it before. It wasn't a role. It was the guys that did the movie back draft. Right. That did this this massive funeral part of the funeral part but the pirate the end. So they're in good hands. Kind of turns out where doesn't it. And so once Helen what Bernadette and unfortunately gets the snip. Yeah, quite literally. And, and again, unfortunate circumstances Helen is lying on the floor with a knife in her hand. While the police walk through the door. Yeah. Helen is not arrested. She's fucking committed. Yes, by her husband as well. Yeah, of course he did that stuff this choice, doesn't it? You know, yeah. Fucking regret that later. But yeah. What a ship bag. I'm sorry. He's horrible. He's a horrible man. And I don't know. But at this point, you don't know he's had an affair. You know he's shifty, but you don't know he's having an affair. So you just think, oh, he's doing it for her own interests. Like all he's seeing is what he's just walked in on and fuck me, that was horrific. But he's doing it for his own means as well. 100%. I mean, he gets a sectioned. She's then taking the next scene you see is like a candy man's floating above her taunting her but when you see it on the cameras back there's nothing there. So they think she's having vision so they put her on like some ridiculous drug and she's been out for a month by the time she goes into the doctor's office. And the doctor turns around and says to her, you know, like, you need to explain it a bit more, you know, what happened, how did we get here and she's literally like restrained to the wheelchair so she can't move. And this is the scene where in the UK, we got the uncensored version and the America, the Americas. The Americas, the 1800s of it all and America got the censored version because obviously they wanted the narrator. What's the sensitive nonsense is the censored version is that you don't see the killer tool you just see. That's the one I was screaming right now I saw the UK version, which is where you see candy man slit him from us to neck. I did not. I heard it. It's the same noises but you actually see him do it. It flips back and forward to her face but you see him do it and you see the blood splat and the gore and the. We got that in the UK, which was really strange because usually we don't get there. We are actually probably more sensitive than the Americans when it comes to stuff like that. Yeah, we don't let our kids into the cinema to watch horror movies at 12. It just doesn't happen. You know, I still don't understand their movie system because at 12 because you imagine going to the cinema at 12 which ready. They were never less in a cinema. I mean, I could because I'm fucking tall and and can get a could pass for an older range. But I get what you mean and what I wanted to do with all that's the other thing. It's not a case of what could I do is it's what I would I want to do I want to really want to see Freddy Krueger and fucking, you know, a big massive screen. I mean, normal telling either. So, I mean, this film didn't do bad. It was it had a nine million budget back in the day which equates to about 20 million today. And it made 25.8 million at the box office which equates to 57.8 million in today's money now. I've also remember again 1992 cinema was a luxury. It wasn't something you went to three or four times a week you didn't get. No, no, it was like a once in a blue moon trip to the cinema. So the fact that an indie horror movie, because it was to a degree indie, even though it wasn't indie budget. It was in the house shooting, it was like, um, the feel. Yeah, it, the beauty of this movie was it actually got put up on the Saturn Awards as best picture. And it got beaten by Bram Stoker's Dracula that year. Oh, who said that Virginia Madison still one best actress. For that. So, fuck yes go on Virginia slash Helen. And when Helen leaves because Helen does leave her doctor's room via the window. Yeah, shoot me in on the side of the building. I'm like, no love. No, if that's me, I'm literally falling out and dead. It's over. We're done. And there's no way in God's if I'm getting down there in one piece. No, she pushes in through the window and she stills their nurses uniform and tries to escape. She goes on Sarah Connor for a second. Oh, yeah, she does a full on like mission impossible escape, but then she gets out. And she makes her way to the only place that she really knows which is our home. But it's not. Cause some bitch who really likes pink is moved in. I was fucking horrible wasn't it. And this morning, as well, it wasn't just. Yeah. It looks like something you would drink. It was like Mr Blobby had just exploded on the walls. Just needed some yellow in there and it would have set that off right away. Yeah. Trevor shitbag. Yeah. That's it. He brought Helen off the minute she got in there. He couldn't give two ships if she was seeing or not. Because he moved his girlfriend into Helen's home. That looked quite nice. Look at Corona porn. Yeah, white walls may add. Yeah. And it looked very grown up and shed plants. It looked lived in and it looked, it looked, it looked, it looked like education happens in there. Like it just it's something so grown up about it. And then that fucking pink wall and the pink sofas and chairs and. God, and get it to the girl who played the mistress because the way she fell down when she saw her. That was pretty good. She genuinely looked like shit, she's going to kill me. I, she's going to, she's, I'm going to die right now because she just fell. She's like the nerd. Stacey looked, Stacey played that well. She earned that paycheck because she did do very, very well in that scene. And Helen, do you know what this film really did to is the while I was watching. And it made me think about smoking again, not that I ever would pick a cigarette up. I actually cannot stand the smell of cigarettes and I can in this film so much smoking. It's like, if it was back in the day when I used to smoke, I would literally be cheering in it every time because it's so built in there when you see someone do it. It's so you think of this a social thing. And it's just you instantly go to pick one up. Yeah, that's all I kept thinking of. I was like, Oh my God, if I was smoking right now, this room just would be funny. Wouldn't you see anything. Yeah, she sort of, they go to try and call 911. She's like, don't do it. Just give me enough time to leave and I'll. Because I think what they were trying to show was she had nothing left. They were trying to get her to that point of despair, where she'd do anything. So she goes back to the one place that she knows which is back to keep really green and makes her way through the mirror. It's almost like she's drawn there. Yeah, it's more so that way you are right. She literally opened to the point she walks through that door and realises her whole life is gone. She has nothing else. So the only player said she has probably had any connection to within the last six months as being Caprini green. So it's a, of course, that's where she's going to go. It's not out of the norm for her not to go there. But then she realises that baby Anthony has been missing. Like, they think she she killed him. That's what they were convinced that happened. She killed the baby, but really candy man put him aside because he was going to. Now, this is a bit that I get confused at every time because I'm not sure if he was going to. transfer his soul into the baby, or he was going to sacrifice the baby, or the baby was just used as a means to get Helen there. I still don't actually know what the point. What was I don't know if it's kind of what I'm reading for me. No, it's almost like he's learning with the baby. Yeah, that makes sense. He hasn't the baby in the fire. It makes sense for her to go in there because he wants her to die. Exactly. So it's almost like he's using the baby as like, you know, you will do. If you're the kind of person I think you are, you're going to come after him. Yeah. And yeah, she does. But before she does all that, she does bump into where candy man again. And we get one of the most iconic and famous scenes that this movie franchise has to offer. And it is the rib cage full of bees, beans, lots of bees in the mouth. Not making us cage full of bees, because that's another film, but this is the rib cage full of bees. I can't believe I actually watched that one first from the original. What is wrong with me. Is it the bees are the bees. Yes. So yeah, be as a poet be as a pouring out that now that would be impressive. So all the fucking film, but be as a pouring out of his mouth, which actually in turn go on to Helen's face. And you can see, I don't know if it's a case of that is what it almost looks like a photograph. It doesn't look like that is Helen lying there because of how still she is. Well, supposedly on one of the very many sites, I went on to do some of this you try and fact check, but on three of them you're told yes on two of them you told something different so yeah. On one of the on some of the sites it basically said that she was definitely allergic to bees. So, they were shorter that because these bees were 12 hours old that this baby is. Yeah, there's things weren't at full potency so if anything she would just get a little bit of and flaxia and that would be it so. Yeah, she was absolutely petrified. So, I don't know whether they actually chance to out for that bit though, because she seems so. It's too calm it's too still it doesn't look it's it's not out of place in any stretch because you that of what's going on with 20 charge. And, but when he goes into kisser with them out for the booze well apparently had it's a very similar thing to what Doug Jones had when he had the most in his mouth because it's around about the same time. They put in the dental down so it's like if anybody doesn't know what dental down is it's like a piece of rubberized. I don't even know really what is like what it's made of it's like a piece of rubber silicone, which they attach from the back of the teeth to take one of them. But very big. Yeah, sorry it's nice. It stops the beast from going down his throat. So I kept it in a like a contents. Yeah, yeah, this makes my anxiety octopus that has so my audio listeners won't be able to hear but if you can, if you ever see is that's all I'm doing is fiddling with this. And he's like it's just fiddling fingers at all. But he goes and give her a massive kiss. Oh yeah mouth wide open. And it's like, I think then you realize like she knows that there's nothing else left. She, she manages to get out of there because she stabs it with the hook. Isn't she all something happens between the two of them and she manages to get out. No, he just literally just vanishes after he does that. And she then, because I think she gets up and then she takes Anthony and she starts to leave the room. She sees the mirror mural. You are all from the mural of Candyman and his wife. Yeah, and it's a wife look like Helen. It says it was always, it was always Helen or something on the written across the mural thing. And he doesn't promise that he would release Anthony. Yeah, but he wants, he wants, what he wants to lure her until he wants to fucking terrify Caprini green like they've been doing this fucking pyre to like burn out the, the ghost of Candyman like he's a bit pissed with Caprini green as well. But what we find is that he's put Anthony in the middle of the pyre and Helen dramatically goes in. I am honestly when that scene is on, and she's in there trying to get out. I am like moving around with her because that is Helen's inside of it. There's no if puts on maybe he's she's fucking in there. Yeah, and it looks so uncomfortable. Yeah, she's also carrying a baby with her. And it's like, Oh my gosh. But then the kids who she saw earlier comes out with all of his mates and all of Caprini green come out and fucking set it on first of what he sees because she convinces little Jake that it's not real. And he sees a hook going into the middle of the funeral pie now bearing in mind what he doesn't know is that it's Helen attached to the hook because she was using it. He's in the, in the room after Candyman disappeared so he thought it was Candyman and he knew he had to burn him out so technically it was the little boys fault that the place was set on fire, because they were trying to get rid of him. They're so scared of this, this myth. Yeah. Look at what they've built to erase this ghost because it's all it up for them. That's all he is like he's not they're not living Helen's life and seeing what she's seeing. Um, but yeah Helen has this. Oh, this is how Daenerys Targaryen should have looked at the end of season one of Game of Thrones, as she comes out of their hair burnt off. Skierburn and she passes her that baby to that mother's, to that to the mother, Foxy example. But yeah, that is how Daenerys Targaryen should have looked. Because her hair is in fucking drug and fireproof. Apparently it is though. Years have interbreeding has led to fireproof hair led hair. Yeah, and then she comes out and obviously they try and all put her out and she's too far gone and she she's carved it. But they don't even go to the fucking expense or even the courtesy of putting a wig on her when they bury it they just bury her with a burn, weird, and I've got to say that, that let it down for me. I don't think flowers around her hair or something because she is there. Do you know what I loved about this the funeral makeup. Yes, but it was the special effects work on her head, but to me was very strange. It looked like her hair, because obviously she had beautiful curly hair like ringlet like I don't know what you call that that hair do but she had that. Like the burn patterns would like circular in it was very strange. And every time I see our focus on that and I don't look at anything else you know. It's a choice. But when she's in the coffin she looks, she wants to look beautiful because she's incredibly pale. But what I, what I found with funeral makeup is they do like they'll use a lot of peach. And I will never, I know this is very, very small but talk but I will never forget how my grandmother looked in the coffin. She was like a, she looked like a fucking peach. She had a peach gown on it was fucking horrific. And she had this horrible, I'm never saw my grandmother in makeup my grandmother was a traditional, you know, North East grandmother who, you know, war fucking cardies from the age of like 20 or something. And she never had like I never saw her in makeup. And she had this was horrible. She just didn't look fucking right at all but it's all I remember if I think of like, it's not now makeup is so changed in funeral makeup but back in the day peach was the color of choice. And she was so peachy. Yeah, I mean, and then what you do is you don't see it in an open casket you actually see her in the casket in the ground but then it sort of finds up to the funeral up above and how it's only her husband, his mistress, the professor and why. And that's it, is it? Yeah, yeah. Hellen's lost a lot of probably lost her whole entire life and everyone that she knew due to her actions because nobody. And this is evident in the next movie, nobody puts the story straight and they just are under the impression that she's a murderous. And with the people of Caprini Greeno. Because they come down and they show their respects and how they walk down that field, and nearly burst into figures. I'm not going to lie for powerful, because they gave her, she gave her her baby back. And that's the phrase to herself. Yeah, exactly. And no one had done that for them. Well, they don't feel like they've had anybody do that for them. So, when Jake chucks the hook in, I'm always like, are you, are you saying to her it's okay for her to get her revenge now so she takes the hook. I feel like that is the case because that's how I took it anywhere and I think 2021 kind of 2021 a race is Helen, so we'll get into that in a minute, not in that sense. Let's get the end of it. Yeah, Trevor is grief stricken. Yes, to the point of where he's reliving his life with Helen. And then he's looking at the reality with this new one, and how she is just sulking, throwing things around in the kitchen because he won't come out of the bathroom. Whereas Helen was had all the food cook she was so ready to see him when he came to the door she can't be hug. And this one was all very like, you don't she do them in the squares. She cut the thing the squares, what'd she make. I don't think she's ever cooked today and I like the girl that played her because it was just the way she said, I mean them stakes didn't look like stakes I don't even know what the hell that was that have been beat within a lot of intubates life. It was so thin, it was like you remember them, the very cheap stick used to get from as to that was chewy as fuck. You're like, I'm really scared, but we're going to do fancy dining. And yeah so he's regretting life choices sitting on the toilet, and he goes to look in the mirror, as you do in this movie. And lo and behold, it was behind the mirror. He did say Helen five times, he did. Helen, Helen, and then he realized what he said and he looked up and he goes, Oh, Helen, and then Helen is here. No bees, no bees, looking ever so beautiful that I mean, regardless of the hair situation that face is just. Oh, it's fucking stunning. And yeah Helen's come back to seek her revenge. Has she don't know not really explained. Yeah Helen has joined the ranks of the hive as it is fucking known in 2021. Oh, I'm getting angry with myself, because it's really, it really annoys us in the 2021 one. There's a lot that annoys me in the 2021 one. But given some of the context of the movie, I feel like my my anger's not warranted. And I will explain myself because I don't want to leave it to where Alex I'll explain. Yeah, the 2021 one, 2021 one was written by John Peel. Yep, and I can enjoy John's work. And I think he's been, he's made some bald and brave choices. I generally think this is one of them. I don't know how to write a good horror slash sci fi slash yeah history movie. I mean, you can tell where his is passion lies and no comedy is his thing, but his passion is horror, and it is very evident with one called get out, no, no, yeah, there's loads. Yeah, no, what's the get out which one's that one. Get out. It's the one where the guy gets hypnotized. That is us is the one where the people get replaced. There's a stats got some questions behind it, not a bad film, but the whole clone and aspect really there's a lot of questions there. Get out is some of the best writing, the intensity of that movie was unreal we watched that the same night we watch hereditary. So we were on fucking edge to start with. But at the end where he thinks it's all over. That's it the police are here. Yeah, I'm done for I'm a black man and a white man in a white man's community. I'm fucked and it's fucking friend. Yeah, and I have never cheered so much in my life John Peel just he gets it. And he is also a huge horror fan so we get horror. It's not bad writing this movie by any stretch. No, there is some questionable things that have they got me bogged. This is in my opinion in. And it's worth nothing my opinion. I'm not a somebody who is studied for years to give my opinion. This is just an unsolicited opinion because I feel like there was a difference of intention. Between Jordan Peel's writing and the cost is directing of this movie. I think the way she read the treatment the way she read the script was from a very socio economic of the times with the BLM movement and everything that was done. She read it with that in there, whereas all the movies Jordan's written have been people of color heavy because that's his intention, but it's never been so divisive that it's. It's, it's kind of hard for me to explain it without it sounding really bad because it's get out is its own thing. It is a very strange idea. And that, whilst I know it explores the ideals of racism it's not, it's not specifically just about that it's more about the fact that they're able to hypnotize the souls of these people and put them in other places. Yeah, for all Jordan has a message, the story can kind of like the message the message is so subtle. It's a special message within a movie of his writing is story. Yeah, it's the story. It's not the sexual justice of it all it's there is a key point to the story, you know, whilst that's all going on in the background and you're aware of it. It's not the focus, whereas I feel like the cost of when she directed it, it was her intention to make this the main focus to make it very uncomfortable for any way to watch that can't empathize and if that was her intention. Well done, because it worked. I, I don't like this movie and it's not for those reasons. I don't like this movie because I don't feel like it gives any proper cute it's like it doesn't give you the same ability to get creeped out candy man is totally different in this film. He's not the same candy man we know. And Sherman, it's so weird, like how they targeted this whole thing. They made what they've made candy man into it's an ability. It's not a it's not something that is in urban legend it's an ability that's been passed on because of what's being done. It's not myth. It's not spooky. Yeah, it's something that so Sherman is a man who lives and could feel pretty green green green who is a candy man. He gives candy to the local children. He's a bit of an oddball. See this to me sold off predator vibes like it didn't 100% given that he's gone. This was the bit where it lost me straight away like when it went into the scene of the little boy down in the laundry room with the hole in the wall and the guy coming out dressed as candy man throwing candy on the floor and I'm like, this isn't candy man. And this is a sexual predator looking for children fucking pedal or just walk over fucking a wall in a wall. And that's where they lost me because straight away, you're taking away the thing about the movie that Tony with the myth, the fantasy that the, the, the, what's the word I'm looking for it's like a myth about them. Yeah, Tony works so hard to create this character, this, this guy who, if we're using the, the allegory of color in movies Tony did so much work to establish his character to give him a background. He came up with that Tony came up with the background of that being lynched and honey and all that sort of thing that was Tony story. So you're discounting an entire that the very reason this film is being made was off the back of that movie. If you didn't have the first one they wouldn't have remade this one or see what ever calling it so to take the premise of someone either pretending to be the candy man based on a predator that lives in a hole in a wall in a laundry. And what the fuck is this straight away gone I was like out of it. Yeah, I'm going to end up hitting this movie by the end of me talking about this and I am. There's a woman Sherman with these with these sweets, nuance and sweets, and the kids screams, because obviously a man has just walked out of a fucking wall offer a sweet, and Sherman, instead of a book for a hand. A genuine hook for a hand what you would class as a part of a appendage that would be used in replacement before we had the advancements in. That's what I'm looking for thank you. And, and he screams to wear the police because the police are looking for someone so they're on, they're on the grounds. They're not just they don't just show up because the kids screams and it's like I'm coming and they're already there. And, and as they come in and see Sherman who looks incredibly confused and startled. They're just shooting down. I'm guessing that he technically isn't he's going off the back of the mythos of candle man. They show them because well yeah because he's killed he's killed out of revenge. No, sorry, no revenge. He is, Sherman is more down in injustice. And that's what their base and their whole candy man thing off so if someone has been killed for that kind of reason, they have every right to come back as a candy man bigger. This is how I interpret it. Right. So I'm right saying that Daniel got completely discounted as the original county man then. And Sherman, because, no, because of all the things that happened later but there's a hive. They're fucking the fucking is. And this is what annoyed me because at the end of the movie sorry to skip right to the end, but the end of the movie you've got that beautiful silhouette that they showed you when they reenacted. Daniel's story, because Daniel story does get mentioned in it and it is part of the show wasn't it like this beautiful silhouette thing yeah and they show you the rest of the candy men, but not Helen. If there's a fucking hive of candy men, then Helen is part of that fucking hive, but there isn't that no there's not but that's if we're going off what they have put down. I'm looking at my phone because I did actually write some notes on my phone I was watching it and Helen's where was it. Oh, yeah, the candy man hive is created what does that mean for Helen. Where's Helen in this whole fucking hive bullshit and also, OK, no, I was going to say the one thing I did like, very, but it was the very beginning of this film where it goes into the intro and how they're all flipped for mirror. So you're on you're looking at a reflection which I thought was very, very clever at the beginning so you know you know you like you get your universal trailer bit. So it was that I did like because I thought that was pretty good idea. Yeah, well. Are we not meant to know that Anthony is Anthony from the first one because I instantly knew that the minute he came on telly. Well, this is the thing that, right, on the page I asked today about what people thought this movie was. Now I didn't offer the the sequel option because I had to see an interview with John Peel and he said it wasn't a sequel. So I didn't offer that as an option. I offered it as a reboot, a remake, or something else. And someone put the point in that it is a sequel, and I was like, well, according to Jordan, and they were like, but, you know, clearly is because of Anthony, and I was like, well, for me, it feels like they've changed the law. So how can it be a sick, sick or if it's not direct, if it's not directly. Following the law of the first one. Yeah, it feels like this one is a bit disjointed in the law. It doesn't feel like it's. It sounds like the maintenance of the going along to be honest, the way that it is because, if they're going to use Anthony. Yep, then use Daniel. Yes. Don't use someone else, because all you've done there is just added another piece for a puzzle that didn't need to be there. Showing through me completely. There is so many people in this movie who don't need to be there. The guy who explained shit to him out of nowhere. He doesn't even fucking. He just tells them. He's a random person. Yeah, but he didn't even tell it. He wasn't talking about anything. Anthony wasn't saying anything. He just starts talking to him and telling him and he fucking, like, enrolls himself into Anthony's life. Anthony's a painter. Anthony's a painter who just happens to get bitten or stung by me. Yeah, well, I mean, this is after the fact that he's starting to learn. In the beginning, Anthony learns about coop. He's really green. And he's learned about that. He learns about Helen Helen's legacy is comp. And it's told exactly how it happened in the first movie, but it's the assumption that Helen did what she. She knew what she was doing that we were meant to believe that Helen did what she did, because in the murders, we know, as viewers, that's not what Helen did, but that's how Helen's like, and that's fine, totally fine, because that is, that's how people would remember her. But to discard her as part of a fucking hive is ridiculous. She came back at the end. She had to have her name said five times in order to come back. She had the exact same revenge in her heart as a candy man did. And I would like to think it would have been nice to see them both standing together at the end. But that's just personal choice. And so yeah, Anthony's he's finding out about this. He doesn't know about his life even though. Come on. And, and he starts getting really connected to the candy man's story. And his artwork starts to reflected it started really shit. And by the middle of the film is, he's got some good shit going down. It's got some dark shit. Yeah. So then he gets his art exhibition with his girlfriend's gallery or whatever the hell's happening there. And it's this really like ponzi art gallery that you're like oh fuck the shit and he can tell he feels really out of place there but he's put this installation in which was the mirror. Yeah, so you could like yeah you've got your pictures behind it the mirror there and he explains how it's the looking up in on around. I come from an arty family. And this is an our curator. My mom appreciates it. I can't think of anything fucking worse than being in a moment like that in that art gallery. They are not my people. They are far too fucking pretentious for my like and I can tell he feels that way. We're talking to quite it to something you talk in like trace the M in with that I'm made bed and getting some sort of turn of prize for it. It was just a mirror, you know, I can see the beauty in a lot of things but you cannot persuade me that a person who ain't made their bed is worthy of a turn of prize I'm sorry it's well if that was a kiss Anthony would win every fucking So for me, I'm sure there's people out there that will disagree with me and say it was a genius move. I mean if she was doing it to take the piss. I congratulate her greatly because it worked. Yeah, this this place makes you feel uncomfortable straight away, which I think was a clever stroke because it yeah it the whole vibe of the place was weird. It was just very uncomfortable. You could tell a lot of the people there were cling ons and they were only there because they were trying to get seen Because it's a fucking art show and it'll be free alcohol that's why I think the fucking plenty of them and that's all they do is dish out free. I think a lot of my sisters ordinance and that's all they do is just fucking sit there. So you spend two and a half three grand on a painting you don't need because you're drunk. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's what they do fly you with alcohol and they buy this shit. My sister does this for a fucking living like I shouldn't mock it but it's just it's not my scene. I am not into I'm not into the art style like my sister photography is a very different matter for me though. But the art bit, no, no, this is the bit where the two people that are left to tidy up. Look in the mirror and do the county man, isn't it? No, no, it's not that bit. It's the owner of the gallery who works with Anthony's girlfriend who Anthony told was a little bitch and he's like, and he's his girlfriend's like, Oh, I'm really sorry to worry, I can handle being called a bitch. You're fucking hit a tongue lashing off me then if you can handle that one. And, but yeah so the go upstairs and they're getting it on and she starts seeing candy man five times while they're getting it on. And he's there, right there, right there, right there, right in the back, fucking slish slush I loved it. And you get to see the kills I got to see the kills in this one anyway, in this, in this version. And then to get the chop and again Sherman why it makes no fucking it makes no sense. It made sense when they will comment after in the first one because it was, whenever it would happen to Helen was doing it. Or someone, you do you know what I mean it just, there's no connect they have no connection to the candy man thing so it just me. And let's talk well they didn't I was just going to say less time he said no but he clearly didn't because at the end you didn't tell these fucking faces there right at the end. Oh my gosh. So yeah so there to get the chop and Tony is starting to, Tony then gets stung by the B, which then ends up taking his whole fucking body. And, and while that's going on. He finds out about his, I mean him and his girlfriend aren't going through the best of time and they end up kind of departing ways for a bit her brother sounded like Billy Porter generally thought it was Billy Porter to start with. And so yeah she ended them to not having the bestest of times. And what what happens man. Anthony then gets the full story of what of Daniel's story here. Not Sherman. Daniel's story. So let's just mix it up a bit more for no reason. Yeah. So yeah and then Dan and then it all becomes apparent to him. Oh that's it he goes that's it. So he finds out about Daniel he's got the bee sting it starts to affect his body he goes to hospital and like oh welcome back Anthony and he's like what do you mean he's like well you were born here. No I wasn't I was born on the south side wrong you were born here and you lived in. Thank you. I give up now my words won't come out properly. And it's that time. So yeah he goes through his mother who's like who's the same actress by the way. Yeah. Yeah, and fantastic and she explains yeah you were and you were kidnapped as a kid. And the scar on your shoulder. It's from where he got you with these fucking hook. Yeah. And he doesn't say that. No, no mention of Helen. Me going to fucking sacrifice this year. Well they do mention Helen, but it's not in regards to the sacrifice. It's Helen's story it's actually confirmed Helen's story is real. I have to be honest right I watch I have seen this at least two or three times this film prior to me rewatching it on Tuesday. Now bearing in mind I have been working back to back now for a moment third week without a day off. I fell asleep here. I fell asleep there and it takes a lot for me to fall asleep. I just lost all interest. Yeah, and I hate to say it because I don't do that. I stated if I'm going to watch a film I watch it and I just that I couldn't. I woke up and I thought stuff I'm not even going to remind it because I don't. There's a lot that goes on in this film you see him alienating his girlfriend you see him alienating his friends. You see him going out on his own. The thing I do like about it and nothing I do like I'm going to positive here is the fact that in the original you only saw Candyman through the mirror to bring him to life in this one he's in every reflective surface. You see his reflection on the fridge wall if it's a bit shiny and you see it on in the windows of the kitchen cabinets he's everywhere. I think I like that concept to know that he's always with him but he doesn't know he's always with him yet. So that's kind of creepy in that sense. So that was a kind of creepy thought that he's always just in the peripheral he's always just in the background waiting. I've just read a contradiction. And when he goes to see his mom is mom admits that Candyman was responsible for the bloodshed that was blamed on Helen and the residents no longer speak his name. Well that's full of shit. She believes but that is not what's happening because she didn't shake the Germans about this candy and he's going to get. I just I think for me. If you're going to do a direct sequel. Just do it. Do a direct sequel. In the previous law, make it very simple for people. You don't have to not put in the social aspect of it. I'm not. This isn't a commentary again on any of the social injustices in his movie at all. This is a comment on. You're trying to do a direct sequel from a movie that came out in 1992 in 2021. I also agree there's a lot of issues that can be paralleled because I'm not sure that anything really has got any better in America. I don't know. I'm not, you know, I'm not. All I see is the fact that they discounted Tony Todd and his entire legacy. And the movie has gone from being a romanticized revenge movie to just being this politically driven revenge movie, but it's not with an image movie. I don't, I don't know how to describe. You're using revenge for revenge sake, whereas you could have used Daniel as a Oh my God, we haven't spoke about him for so long. When some, you know, the word, it's starting to come out the stories, the urban legend starting to pick back up again. The ghost is starting to appear. You don't need to create this. And I want to say the word again, hive of of candy men. And it doesn't need to be it could have been done so much better and this is where there's a lot of questions for me. And so Anthony starts to get a bit fucking weird with the whole bee stings and starts to like, go very quiet and enter himself. And he actually, William, the guy who likes to tell him a lot of things, even though he never asked abducts his girlfriend with Anthony with him who is kind of like in a summer tour state. He is the kid who, who screamed when Sherman came out he is the reason that Sherman was short. Yeah, not that I would ever blame that on a child. It's just, he's scream led to the action that took place. And that was a social commentary right there because the police were white. Yeah. And, but he also witnessed it again with his sister who did. So yeah he's been through a lot of candy man isms to really piss him off. And he attempts to do is create what is to recreate it. He could, Anthony's, he could Anthony's hand off replaced it with a hook. And he sort of convinces him it's the right thing to do doesn't he's he's fucked up his tits man he's not even there. He's like, we've got to do this, you know, you need to, we need to do this and I'm like, but why I'd be seeing a, you know, if I can touch my hands with a cleaver. What's the purpose of him doing this to Anthony? To, to in common. No, to entice the police. I don't know. This is what I don't really, I don't, because I understand he's, he's, he's recreating the candy man myth. He's recreating the candy man story or, or Daniel's story. And then his girlfriend to get the police. And then the police would kill Daniel. No, the police would kill Anthony. And he would become the candy man. For what purpose I generally don't fucking know. Because they don't. Caprini Green at this point has been gentrified. Yeah, it doesn't really exist as it was. No. In 2011, the real Caprini Green, which you see in the first one was completely leveled and all the people were moved out and dispersed around the country and in other parts of Chicago. Now what in its place is a target and a dick sporting goods, both on the site of Caprini Green. So I mean, it's one of those things where there's no purpose. Yeah. Two, I might have missed it completely, but I have watched this four times. I've just read it. I've just read it. It's just another vengeful spirit to join the hive. Oh, get the fucking the fucking hive again. Oh, and so, and Anthony collapses in his girlfriend's arm after fucking his girlfriend takes out William and the police come and shoot Anthony. She doesn't take her into custody. Yeah, and try to convince her to tell them that Anthony did it. And it was a lawful shooting. Yeah, she then says, can I see myself in the mirror? And he's like, no, you fucking can't. She's like, I'll tell you whatever you want to hear if you let me look in the mirror. She just falls upon Candyman. And I generally do like this ending but not for how it's just led to. I just like this part for some reason. Or does she say Anthony? She says Candyman. Right. Okay. She says Candyman five times. And you just see this whole scene of policemen being thrown everywhere. Who's doing it. But then he let her out of the car to where she then stands in front of him. And it's not Anthony anymore. It's Daniel standing in front of us and tell my story. And the weird thing is between behind the gate, isn't he? And she's in front of the gate. And he's behind like this gate or this fence post. And you see him like his shadow come around the corner and you see the iconic coat and everything you think you're And then you see it Sherman and then as he gets closer and you get square on you see you see it's Anthony. You see it's Anthony. And then you see the square on face and it switches, which I think is always a clever when they do that. It switches to Tony and Tony then says, you know, you have to tell my story, Daniel says you have to tell my story. She, I know fucking story as far as I'm aware. I don't even fucking believe it. So, and then like he walks off and she's just stood there and I'm like so she's going to get blamed for this nonsense now. Same boat that Helen was in, because she's the only one left standing and there's dead I don't know if I had to write this down the film's end credits features a shadow poppered montage of members of the growing candy man hive, including Daniel Sherman, Anthony, James. Bird junior George Stini and Anthony himself. No. Where the fuck is Helen. Maybe she was only eventual spirit, just a killer husband. And once she'd done her business she, she didn't kill anybody else. You know, I can only think that there's some possibility that that was the answer, but this film, I still am struggling with the fact that it costs 25 million to make this film. They're hardly any practical effects in it at all. The majority of it is CG. And it made it cinema. Now, bear in mind 2021. We are all starved for entertainment. We are chomping at the bit because we've been locked out cinemas for the best part of a year. And you don't do what I did, which was when the minute they opened the cinema. What did I go watching the cinema. Wonder Woman 84. Oh, why disappointed. It's so desperate to get into a cinema because it had been so long, you know, and I was like, yeah, what the hell is this. And, but yeah, it was 2021. We're a year and like out of lockdown. No, we're coming out of a year of lockdown now we think just as right. Okay, we get back to the cinema. It took 77.4 million. I mean, I didn't go and see it. And I didn't go and it's not for any reason other than. You take something that I love. You got to do a damn good job at explaining. Yeah, your purpose behind. Either reboot reboot in it sequel in it, recall in it, whatever we're doing here because the majority of the people on the page said it was one of two things. It was either a recall because there would discount in the second two that have been made. So it was a recall or it was an adjacent sequel because it didn't have the majority of the law that we came to know from the first one. So technically, it's got the all the ingredients of being a sequel is missing. I think I know I think I've just realized why I initially liked this film because I did initially like this film. And it's because it made me understand the first one. I'm just it's just literally just hit us there. I, it's not that I didn't understand it. It's not I just, I was so much more clear with how not only I felt about it. The story behind it understanding that the decisions people want like making. And so that helped this film helped me do that. I've just read here. And this is the last time I bring it up, I promise. And fully introduces the Candyman mythology of a hive of various candy men killers, Daniel the original Helen the only female. The film's murderer candy man Sherman feels the candy man in the Megan Anthony, whose journey into becoming candy man is similar to Helen's with an obsessive exploration into the legend legend of candy man subsequent wrong refusal a left behind romantic partner and murdered colleagues. Okay, then, then write, then give me that story then because what you gave was, it's so, it could. Why I think if you take Sherman out of it. It makes things less complicated. You don't need to over complicate things with the whole idea of the hive and out of out of the whole thing, and you replace it with Daniel and the law of Daniel this film made sense. But, from the point of view of a storyline that's driven off the back of a very, very well established movie, and you're supposed to be picking it up all these years later to be able to 19 years later to be able to run with it to make it cohesive to make it understandable. And I feel like that is then where Jordan's vision and the cost is vision didn't meet because I think Jordan's such a horror fan when he was interview interviews I saw, he said that the first time he ever went to see can he man he was about he's a year older than me. So he would have been about 13 and he said the thing about that movie was we didn't have obviously any black icons in horror and he said it was like I was watching and I could identify with him because I loved horror and this was this guy in horror. And he said we finally had somebody so I wanted to be able to tell this guy's tale. And I'm like, you say that, but what the fuck did you tell it in this movie. And he said, you know, I'm not going to be a woman. Clive wasn't bought on for this one at all. If I remember rightly because I was not saying anywhere. Clive's not been very well for a very long time. Clive can't travel. He's he lives in America. And he did get accused again like I say earlier of the whole, you know, youth of urban legend and the race is a question. And to this day his answer is, I'm in a biracial relationship. My husband is black. He he's like, I don't understand why people keep thinking that there's this. Because that was never as intentionally wrote it. I didn't know he was good. Yeah. He's, you know, it does explain a lot when you look at Hellraiser and you look at the books and blood and stuff and you're like. Yes. And then whole situation was a big thing for him when he went to uni in college with that badly because they were together when they went to uni together. But yeah, it's, it's, it's just so much to it that, again, like I say, it's not the, the, the racism aspect of the second one and the social themes of the second one, not what I hate about the movie. They are not, I want to be honest with you because that, like I say, because I can't identify or understand, empathize with it. I can't wholeheartedly give myself to this film to be able to understand the main characters and be empathetic with them because I can't understand that. I can't ever say that I'm going to be in a situation like that. I've never, again, I'm afforded privileges that others aren't. And so, I, it just, I feel like this movie had the ability to be able to honor a movie that meant so much to so many little kids that needed that horror icon that needed that person that representation. Exactly. It fucking matters. And I don't feel like this one had that same effect that it would not for the kids, whether intention was there or not for that to be, you know, but it makes me sad because I don't know, no, no, I don't think you did. And I just, I just feel like the overcomplicated it with the Sherman story that did stick with Daniel, Daniel was what he got obsessed with the story because of Helen, it starts with Helen. And that's how he finds out about it. Then, then, then, then keep with Helen to how Helen had her obsession if you're going to, if you're going to align their lives together, then make it as to why Helen was obsessed. It was the area, it was because of the, the myth and the legend that comes with this name. Don't add another person in there to try and create a group. We don't need a group. The idea of Candyman is an individual soul. I do, I can poke a hole in the end of the last one because you do see Candyman's body burning, but he's supposed to be a ghost. That's what I meant, that's what I was, that's what I mentioned earlier. I said something earlier about that I was meant to come back to it yes. I mean, I can only assume, but do you know what I think in the right and it's the only way that she could ever defeat them. I think it's got to be that he was real when she was there. Okay, I thought they ripped themselves into a hole and was like fuck how she's going to get out of this with him, cheers now and set them on fire, just do yes set them on fire. I feel like that because his love for her was so strong and that was what was driving him. Yeah, the ability that when she was around he was whole again he was real he felt like that's the only explanation I have. We're going to go with that one. No, we're going to go with that one because otherwise I was just thinking for all this movie is written beautifully that ending. You've wrote yourself into a bit of a wall there but that kind of, that would fit with where that where, like within that story. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong. I can tell you now that Manny will, yeah, Mike will, but like anybody please explain what your thoughts are. Yeah, you know, be constructive. I am open to people telling me my thoughts on this are completely wrong. I know I'm open for a discussion about it honestly I am the second movie again like just completely through me I didn't, I don't know how to feel about it I don't know if it's meant to be. I don't just leave it out to where I now understand what I feel about it. Yeah, there's aspects of it that I like and that I think they could work within a difference. Just removing some pieces and concentrating on use the legacy. Use it. Yeah, no one has new legacies. No use the leg. Use the original legacy. Use it. Do the sequel. Do the follow on. We're happy with that like who the fuck didn't ask the question Oh gosh I hope Anthony's alright you know when he's older. We know that he is. Yeah. And it makes sense that Anthony is the person who would get obsessed it's part of his history is part of his legacy. And I understand that he would be the perfect candidate to be the new candy bat that makes yes perfect sense I'm not taking away the fact that that that should be there I honestly think that this movie for me is held in such high regard by so many people. And for the sheer reason that it's from Clive Barker and if you don't know who Clive Barker is go read the books of blood there's even movies done of the books of blood. There is a couple on Amazon on Shada and have been made as movies and I can tell you now some of them are absolutely. Tell me is a well yeah there is obviously the obvious one which is how raise a bit to do something with it I did a nice read Clyde didn't like breed as well there's so many. Oh I don't know what the same insane things that come out that man's brain. Yeah he created a character unknowingly, originally in the book that he you know in the forbidden that then he was able to sit down with another guy and adapt and fall in love with. And I feel like this movie, or if you look at the things of most of Clive's movies they're all romance in some weird in some way it's like a twisted romance it's yeah it's the the goth side of the gothic side and the goth side of the gothic side of it, but it is I mean look at when we were growing off that was our romance like I say we as in the alternative. We we would that's what we would gravitate towards because it was dark it was romantic it was sexy it was you know it's that's the thing yeah and got fantasy. When you when you do look at Clive's movies they all have this intertwined like obsessive love stories, you know like how you head in Kirsty are like in you know what I mean I text the love of like uncle Frank and like it's there's so much intertwined in all of his stories, not just hell raiser that lead you to believe that Clive Barker is actually a romance writer and I will not have anything else said about it so thank you goodbye. But you know I'm I wanted I want us at some point to delve into the world of hell raiser and it's more to it's probably more for me on a selfish reason because I've seen the hell raisers. Do I fuck understand half of what was going on I've even watched the newest one where everyone was up in arms about. And because I don't understand the mythology of it all it was really hard for us to follow so I do want us at some point to do hell raiser and not take it as. Yeah, I think this was what the second one the sequel recall was missing in my opinion, it was missing the romance it was missing the mysteriousness the mythos like you say it was missing the presence that Tony only Tony gave there's no there's no hint of them, the one scene that I think that they did incredibly well as well because I've got to give credit with credit is a poor fucker that had to clean the mirrors in that fucking lot in lift. When he's in the lift and he looks up and he sees Sherman above him and he sees the sweet drop on the floor and he looks up and it's Sherman. That to me was very very clever I thought that was a great idea. However, once you know very few scenes. It doesn't bring that initial feeling that you get from the first one and it's not through rose tinted glasses with this movie at all. This is something I wanted to do you want to enjoy. Yeah, I went into this thinking for the first time in a long time I was like okay well. You know it's a recall sequel redo reboot you don't know what to expect so I was going into it things and I came away watching it first time thinking. I don't understand it I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm supposed to understand it I am I thought I thought I thought I did until I thought I did I always I remember the phone call with Anthony. To get out like to talk with the film through to be like oh yeah I want to understand what's going on and to. Oh yeah I did I like that and then when I've watched it again today like I said I came away with more questions and it is it's the Sherman aspect of it all and the fact that they didn't use Daniel's story. It just. It doesn't make no sense to us but it doesn't take away from the fact of how much I remember when I was remember it was Monday watching the first one on Monday and coming out of it going. That is a straw genius. Excuse me. That is a stroke of genius that movie for the time that it came out for the horror icons that it's up against. That is perfection. My God, I have a tickle. And we wrap this up. And I have no juice left. Oh that I am sorry. Yeah, that's right. Let's let's wrap candy. Let's wrap the candy back up and for candy man away. I'm really glad we did it because I've been looking forward to doing candy man it honestly how it's not how we've not said the name before, to do it is beyond me. Sorry I'm going to cough again. Actually. I'll be real me a second. Sorry. She's off. There's no help in her now. Yeah, yeah, that's better. There we go. I can breathe again. I don't really I don't put two and two together when I'm starting to cough it's because I can't breathe properly. And I am I have something called and my chest can't like have it's ridiculous. I've ice cream. My chest gets really cold and I start to cough. It's because about can it. And I need me in here left so sorry sorry I don't make sure. Any who's next week. Do you know what I don't want to do it but I do want to do it at the same time it's like my prized possession is right next to me and I'm going to carefully take her off the wall. My janet Lee, my janet Lee signed picture. And then we'll have to figure out how to put that back up and yeah next week we're doing one of my favorite movies of all time. I can't wait to I don't even have to write notes for this I could actually do this right now and cycle. We're just doing the original. Yeah, we're not we're not double feature in this one. We're not doing Vince born an Amhesh so you don't know about that we're not going to talk about and has his butthole and we're just going to be talking about the original Anthony Perkins. Janet Lee Vivian Lee. No Vivian. Oh God. Oh my God her name has gone up my head. Vivian anyway. Vivian. No young ones. No. No. Oh my God. Why can't I remember that. That's so bad. Yes, we're doing psycho Alfred Hitchcock's cycle. I think the scream and I thought. All I've got going around in my head is going around the train tonight. You know what I've got stuck in my head. I'm walking on sunshine. I wonder whose fault that could be. Sorry about that. That's I have to say I have issues with that cover but I have to I have three tick tock counts, which means three times your video comes up. And I was like, Oh, that's stuck in my head all day worked. I've got a lot of views on that one. Yeah, so next week cycle. Thanks everyone for sticking around candy man and we are on YouTube every Monday the audio for this episode and all the real episodes go up on a Tuesday. Why? Because I do them then. The links for bleeding marvellous, nerdy up north and monsters up north are we're done with their beautiful red nails. You're very much a hand model now by the way. I'm sure my shit nails off. And yeah, if you're on YouTube, please remember to like share subscribe if you haven't already and hit the notification bell. So you never miss net storage of anything that's going on in nerdy up north. Not just us. Those others. You need to check them all out. And if you are on audio, please let us know. Leave a comment leave a like leave a heart leave whatever it is. It helps the algorithm and we can help other and also, thank you very much to everyone who's joined us on Instagram. And over the last few weeks it's just every day I'm getting a big influx of followers. And so thank you appreciate it. It's up Dan. Yay. And never covered everything. Next week, links to audio. Oh well, there's nothing else left to say. Say goodbye Dan. Mother. Bye. Stay spooky everyone. Bye. [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [screaming]