(upbeat music) - Hello, my name's Kamal Grant and this is You Don't Know What You Don't Know, the latest podcast on the Hope Cast Network, where I, Kamal Grant, go talk to leaders in the consumer package goods world because I need to know more things. I'm trying to launch a new brand called Magic Middle. And I want to get it on all the grocery store shelves. So I'm talking to leaders in the industry so I can learn from them so I can learn and let the world know. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - This is the Hope Cast Network. Stories and shows you actually want to listen to. (upbeat music) - Whoa, what's up, the work advisors? My name is Brad and I'm your host. This is my radio voice, I hope you like it. Hey, thanks for tuning in today. Whatever you're doing, we are grateful that you're choosing to listen. And today we have a doozy for you. We're bringing the spice today. We're spicing this place up. We have Suki Pencil, who is a contestant. She was a contestant on the Great Cookbook Challenge and she is the author of a cookbook garnish in Garam Masala. Let me know how you pronounce it. If I'm wrong Suki, please do not hate me. She is all around a great person. I had so much fun talking to her and I do want to apologize. This has taken a while to drop. So I apologize, I'm doing this publicly Suki. That's how much you mean to the show. I'm sorry that it's taken so long. I want to have you back on video. That's what I want. So thank you Suki for being a part of org advice for me and the family. And I can't wait for you guys to listen to this little episode we have. It's a shorter one, so you'll get to like it. But with that being said, check out Suki, Pencil. - Okay, what was your childhood like? - And my childhood was, let's say a very happy one. My dad was an army officer. So we got to travel the length and breadth of India. We were in the very diverse country. So wherever he was posted, the family was going along with him. So yeah, I learned a lot from a very early age. I have two sisters. So I would twin and a younger sister. So practically we were a 3D club. And it was fab. I mean, I made a lot of friends along the way change schools and, you know, traveled a lot. So it was a very interesting childhood. - What was the coolest thing you got to see as a child growing up in India? - So I think for me, it was that my dad who was posted in the hill. So I got to see snow for the first time when I was it. I was about eight years old. And I was completely blown, you know? It was beautiful. We lived on the footels of the Himalayas. And it was absolutely gorgeous. Got to make a snowman at that age and played and rolled down, you know, these little hills but there was snow. It was beautiful. - Snowmen are really cool. I personally don't like snow, but I'm glad that you got to see it at eight years old. - Yeah, and thank you. - You're welcome. So when did you decide you wanted to start cooking? Did you watch your family cook growing up or how did that work? - Well, I spent most part of my adult life in India and I only came to the UK when I was in my late curtsies. I got married to this wonderful man and well, we're living in the UK now. And yeah, I missed home cooked food. My mom was a great cook. My grandma was a great cook. And you know how it is? I'm basically a North Indian Punjabi Sikh person from Delhi and a lot of our life revolves around food whether it's celebration food, whether it is a good time. It's always about food. So when I came to the UK, I missed that. I missed that food. I missed that beautiful fragrance in my kitchen. So I thought I had to recreate it myself here and this has been approximately about nine years back. - What is the food that you enjoy the most from the UK? - So well, to be honest, I do love the famous fish and chips. So Friday's called the Chippie Night. So I definitely go out for it to get in a takeaway of fish and chips, which I absolutely love. But I actually also really like a Sunday roast. The Sunday roast probably in the pub or just making it at home with lots of veggies and a beautiful chicken roast with your cooking. And so yeah, I love that. - So if I heard you right, excuse me, you said that you were a twin, is that right? - Yes, I have a twin and she's actually in the US. - Oh, okay, so does she have a passion for cooking like you or you're the one in the family? It's like, I'm gonna nail cooking. - Yeah, so yeah, she, I think being an Indian somebody who's an Indian housewife or somebody who's got children, you tend to cook anyway, right? You end up, but to make that into a vacation or you're a passion to turn that into business is something like probably it's only mean the family who's done it. So I do, I do love it. I mean, I started off only trying to do, you know, during COVID cook-alongs and teaching people online how to cook Indian food because there's a huge population of people here in the UK who love Indian food. So I started like that and then it just spiraled into something much bigger. - I was gonna ask you about that. So how much fun is it? It seems like it would be really fun to do the virtual cook-alongs. What kind of excitement does that bring you when you get to do a virtual cook-along with someone you're teaching? - Yeah, so the idea behind the virtual cook-along is that one, you're cooking in an environment which you're familiar with and you're comfortable in which happens to be your kitchen, your cook way, your, you know, your domain and I'm there to guide you through the whole cooking process of a day, so this is a crumb. And the exciting thing is not just a recipe but it's basically sharing the story behind the recipe because I genuinely think that when you share a recipe you share a culture. So it is less about also the ingredients and what you're putting in this obviously is remain access but it is the tips, the techniques, the story behind the dish and why are we doing it this way? And so it's a combination of all these facts that make it really interesting and exciting. - Now you spoke about the business side. What's it like for you? What was it like for you starting a business in UK? - Yeah, so I'll be honest, I don't have a business background. I've always worked with somebody else and it was only during COVID when everything came to a standstill and you know, we were all looking for ways to sort of, you know, it's not just to analyze something that we enjoy doing but also looking at different ways to sort of enhance the income or bring something else in. And so that is the starting point so I was very lucky that I got to turn something which is a past and into something which is also a business. So it started only during COVID with virtual cook alongs and then I had a website in about two years time. I started sharing recipes on social media. I got an interest from gave me all the productions to participate if I wanted to in an audition for a cookbook talent show on one of the leading talent panels in the UK which I did. So that added to the same repertoire of whatever I was doing and then I started doing a lot of food festival like it called for toxin engine food. And so it just, like I said, you know, became bigger than I had imagined. - So back to the cookbook challenge. What was that like coming in auditioning because you have to feel vulnerable, you know, 'cause you're, excuse me, I think I'm gonna be here. You have to, you have to come in and try out. What was that like? - So it was really, anyway, interesting experience to say the least. Initially when I got, so I had a social media Instagram presence and it was there that I was contacted by the production people and I thought it was a joke. So I literally actually went on LinkedIn before whether these individuals actually existed because I was like, I don't believe it. I've been asked to audition. This is very exciting. Now I was the only Indian person who was chosen out of, I think thousands of people and it was 18 or five towards the contestants. I was the only Indian people person cooking Indian food and trying to put my cookbook idea to the judges. And so the conditioning process took over about a couple of months. We had to like go through a series of, you know, meetings and demos and then we, and then I got a call that I've been chosen as one of the 18 contestants and I went to London to continue all the headquarters to actually participate in the series. - How many hours a day would you fill? Would you record? - Oh, so yeah, so it was a couple of days of recording. I see because it was a contest. So people who were not able to make to the next level were obviously let go. And I didn't make to the level where, you know, where it was one person who actually won the cookbook challenge and was awarded her contract to being a publican deal with Penguin. So I wasn't that person. So yeah, it was a few days of shooting and, you know, if you think something which you want to present to the judges and Jimmy was there, it was a great experience. We were, it was a very amiable and sort of very positive environment because we were all, we were not competing with each other. We were competing with ourselves because it was our cookbook ideas which we were presenting. See, it was a couple of days and did that and then got back and yeah, the series was aired last year in February on a leaving channel here. And it was very, very, it was, I think, a very epic experience, I would say. That's really neat. So what, why do you, okay, for me personally, I was not introduced to Indian food until maybe five years ago. So why do you feel people are nervous or they don't get a chance to try Indian food because personally, I think it's really good. I love Indian food, but I feel like it's a hard, in America, per se, it's really hard to tell people, you've got to try Indian food. - Yeah, so I think there are a lot of misnomers and myths around Indian food and sort of they get sort of magnified on media and other places like platforms which are public platforms. For example, Indian food is not always spicy, Indian food is not always hot, Indian food is not good. Are home cooking silos of producing any dish which is like when we cook at home. It's very simple, it's very sort of, you know, nourishing, healthy, fresh. So I think when we talk about Indian food, in that context, like what you're saying is probably less than food. - Okay, I know I just interrupted a great conversation. My name is Brad and you may be listening to me or any of the other talent we have on this network at HopeCast. We want to thank you for listening, but also we want you to like and subscribe to the show you're listening to. So when you're done listening, go on the iTunes or the Spotify and leave a great review if you like it and follow the show on Instagram and any other platforms that it's on. I think we're on TikTok, so follow us on TikTok. But make sure you leave us a review. We love good reviews here at the HopeCast Network. Now, I guess I'll let you get back to your show. - I hate to interrupt what you're doing now, but something very important I need to let you know about. When you purchase serious coffee beans, we want you to try to enjoy each brew for two reasons. Number one, because you're a part of something bigger, making a positive impact around the world. And number two, 'cause we did not compromise on the quality of coffee, you're drinking some of the best coffee in the world. 100% of profits are donated to nonprofits that are fighting injustice facing humans around the world, Wallace. That's powerful. Generous is best known for especially coffee, but the heartbeat of generous is their hope to use for profit business for good. In 2024, generous is hoping to provide coffee to churches around the US to spread a message within congregations that churches care about people even down to the coffee they are serving and the people they enjoy. I apologize for that extremely long run on sentence. If you have interest in hearing more about generous coffee, please reach out to their founder, Ben Higgins, at binhiggins@journessmovement.com. Thank you and back to our scheduled podcast. - You know, and I think when a cuisine leaves the native place from where it is and goes to another region, it sort of loses its originality and tries to adapt probably through the taste or the palate of that new area or the new region it is in. One over time period, either it gets diluted or it gets, you know, there's these, let's say there's these myths around it, which are actually not true if you actually go to an Indian home in India and try the recipes there because India's so diverse that from the north to the south, you know, we have so many different states that in every state has its own cuisine. So it is, I can understand can be overwhelming, talking about spices, cooking techniques and the fact that most people think it's spicy, but I can assure you that most of that is not true. - You bring up spicy and I love spices. So can you explain to me and the listeners the spice levels? - Yeah, so let's say this that all Indian dishes have got spices in them. Now those are whole spices or powdered spices. Now those spices do not bring the hotness to the taste. If you understand what I'm saying, it doesn't make the dish spicy. They bring in a certain amount of meat to the day. Now, meat to the dish basically means that there are certain spices, for example, cumin seeds. Cumin seeds are warm spice. They are bitter. They are from the parsley, a group of, I mean from the parsley family. So that they bring warmth. That coriander powder, for example, made out of coriander seeds, brings in sesame, lemony, flavor and fragrance to the taste. So they are complimenting spices which actually are not there to, they are there to basically balance the taste of the taste. They're not there to add the spice level or the spiciness to the dish. That only comes in if you use red chilli powder or if you use fresh chilli. If you don't use these ingredients, your dish will not be extremely hot, if you know what I mean. So most of this isn't in there. If you talk about spice level, there are dishes which will not have fresh chillis or will not have red chilli powder and they are very mild. So most of this can be termed as mild. Mild to medium-ness and, you know, if you put a bit of glass pepper corn in it, it gives a bit of a kick to the taste, you know. But most spices on their own are not going to, are only going to add a bit of heat to the taste. They're not going to make it spicy. - The spices really, really are really amp up the dish. If you could only use one spice for the rest of your life, what spice would that be? - Well, that is a very tough question, Brad. - I like asking Tupless. If you could name spice, I would have felt more at ease. But if you talk about one spice, I think it would have to be, you know, turmeric. - Ooh, turmeric. - Yes, because turmeric is like, it's got heat. It's got that mustard-like fragrance and bitter taste. It's a warm spice. It's slightly floral, but at the same time, it gives a beautiful color to the dish. So I would go for turmeric, but so, and of course, it has a great amount of, you know, it is great for digestion. And so I would go for turmeric, but it's done with the tough call. - So, are there people in India who just can't get their spices right? Have you eaten dishes from people you know and you're like, wow, their spices just are too crazy and it doesn't taste good? - Yeah, so I'll be honest, I mean, if you divide up the different types of places where you eat, that would probably change the whole taste profile of the same dish, which is made at home. For example, if you make a lamb curry or if I make a chicken curry or say a prawn curry at home, versus how it is made in a restaurant, versus how it's made in small eat these, you know, you don't suppose this all along the highway called haba. The taste profile of the dish would be very different because the technique of cooking it or the spices used in it would change. - How are you with recipes? I know you want to cook, you have a cookbook, you're all about that, but are you like my wife who just creates things in your brain and tries to make it or do you really recommend following the recipe the way the recipe's laid out? - Yeah, so I'm on for trying out before I have trying out a recipe or you know, having an idea in my mind, but then looking at, you know, how, it actually really depends on the type of recipe it is. For example, if it's a North Indian recipe, which is from where I am from, the my part of the world, those recipes, I would probably, you know, do it because I'm grown up eating North Indian food, but South Indian, I would probably try a bit. I would research the recipe, the area, the region, the different kind of ways of making it can then come down with my version of this or my inspiration. But it is something which is, I have to follow. I have to have a written document with ingredients list, with quantities. It just makes the cooking process easy and though, and once you start making the dish very often, probably you will add something more or reduce something, and then it's in your head. Like, that's probably like how your wife does it, it's just up in her head. But for me, it's important to first, you know, have some sort of skeleton, like the written, you know, recipe, which I'm going to use, and then over time, I've cooked kind of, you know, it evolves. Over time, I sort of make it perfect in my own way. So, as we round this out, man, you have truly made me hungry. I really want to eat Indian food, though. What's your favorite food from America? Your favorite American food? Oh, my God, that is a tough one, Brad. Another tough question. That is because there's so much, I mean, I do mean like food which is American in the sense which is as it roots in America, or because American food is also a melting pot of different cuisines, isn't it? True. So, probably if you look at it from my point of view, I would say I really do love cackles. So, because I can make them as spicy as I want, and so I do love those. But, yeah, I mean burgers, I love burgers, but I do not have cheese burgers that much, almost always going to be chicken burgers for me. I love chicken burgers, and with a lot of relays. So, yeah, I mean, I do love that. So, probably these couple of things I would go for. - A couple more questions. Best, your favorite cooking show on television? - Wow, okay, so if you look at it from my point of view, I would say I really enjoyed the show that I worked in, so that would be the good question. - Don't, you can't say that one, can't say that one. - But I think it would have to be master's test. I really, really enjoy what you master's test because there's so much you can learn different cuisines. I love, I'm very inspired by the contestants because they're just out there. It sort of makes you want to be the person who can cook and at the same time present, and at the same time, keep your nerves intact when you're on that show. So, I love master's test. - And Gordon Ramsay is huge in the UK, right? - Yes, yes, I mean, yeah, I mean, there are quite a few really, really good celebrity chefs in the UK who are very inspiring, and so they have left a mark even in the US. - I feel like if Gordon Ramsay was, I was only Gordon Ramsay, any of his cooking shows, my nerves would be rattled because he does a lot of screaming. - Yeah, that's true, actually. But yeah, but I think, I do enjoy his series, but master's test is more sort of, you know, it's all about cooking. It's all about positivity and carraging. So I thought that probably I prefer master's test because it's got a nice vibe to it as well. - Yeah, it is a great show. So what's next for you? - Yeah, so it's actually the cookbook that's next for me. So I'm finished with my proposal now, so I'm hoping that a publisher would pick up my book and then I'm hoping to do a series of them. And so it's all about Indian cooking, caring my stories, my tips, and talking about the diversity of Indian cuisine in India and bringing out those traditional recipes and presenting them here in a very sort of modern scenario where anybody can cook Indian and not see, you know, intimidated. - Well, you have a customer in me because you have sold me. I cannot wait to eat some Indian food. I'm gonna go home and tell my wife, we've got to eat Indian food tonight. - Aww, thank you Brad, that was very kind. I'm happy I was able to motivate you for, you know, your Wednesday night, sorry night. - Thank you, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining us and good luck. - Thank you, Brad, for having me. - Thank you. - No problem, have a good one, bye now. 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