[MUSIC PLAYING] Saying in baseball, you know, there's always a chance you've come to the ballpark and see something you've never seen before. It's going to happen today, and it involves Danny Janssen. There is no score in the game, and the count is 0-1 on Janssen/Barsho. And it's now flipped to Barsho on the scoreboard because it is one strike, not two. Whatever happens in this to bad goes on Dalton Barsho's record. It's wild. I try to call a game like middle. This is definitely unique, Obie. Originally, Cutter Crawford was on the mound on June 26. He went to first inning in the third. So this does go into the book as a relief appearance for Nick Pavetta, and that is it for that piece of history. Can you be an opener in the second inning? He's getting a little fuzzier, but he is opening for the Blue Jays. Janssen goes around, and that's the ball game. Chad Green strikes him out, and the Blue Jays will win the suspended game. The first couple innings were just kind of weird, kind of slow, announcing pinch hitters and things like that. But I think once it kind of-- you get into like a fourth, it was baseball. But I think just the initial stuff, you're used to a bigger crowd here at Fenway, too. It was just a little bit weird. I mean, everything about the first game's weird. There's guys that are in the lineup that aren't here. You're in a different position. There's a guy and another team on the same team that you're playing, that was on it. Your team, there's no anthem. There's no kind of anything. So it's a completely different starter. So it's a little weird game, but it's on to the next one. Fan Morning Show Sports said 5'9" of the fan, Ben, and it's spring-gunning. On to the next normal baseball game. Hopefully, we're not ever on to another resumed suspended game. I get it. I actually prefer that we suspend games instead of just saying, hey, you had all the time we spent playing the first four innings. It's all gone. Forget it ever happened. But baseball's doing it stupid. OK. Real stupid. I was with-- because it started fun, right? It was like, ha, ha, ha. Yeah. It's June. Remember, it's June. Silly. It's June. Look at Danny Jant and he's playing for both teams. That's silly. So silly. By the end of it, where it was like, oh, Dalton Varshall got on base to extend the on base streak. Oh, wait, no, he didn't. Oh, the Blue Jays hit a home run to extend their streak to 15 straight games of the home run. Oh, no, they didn't. They eventually did that. I see what you're saying. What are we doing here? OK, I got it. This is a resumption of a game from June. It's August. Just let the game live in August. It was interesting. It was neat. I saw the Real News did a story about Danny Jant. The Real News. Yeah, like the CBS Morning News had a picture of Danny Jantzen in a graphic. It broke through. I feel like the last time they did that on a Blue Jays catcher, it might not have been so good. No, maybe it was like Dollar Tree or something. I don't know. I don't know why I'm thinking of, but yeah, maybe Dollar Tree. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that one broke through to the Real News, either. But yeah, OK, it was a thing. And Danny Jantzen gets to be a footnote in history. Blue Jays have won five straight, but sort of six. That's another thing. Not six. Don't you-- they didn't win six in a row. I was going to say that. I thought that's what happened. No. No. No. You know what? George Springer's start wasn't as bad as we thought, because he hit that homerun in June. So stupid, come on. I like the resuming of the game again. That makes sense. But we don't have to just take it and place it back in June. It's August now. We can all-- and you can even-- I know it's a different roster, and you can pinch hips. That's all fine, because you've got to do that. But the idea that now you go look at the schedule and the record, and there's that game that lives in June. Now, just throw it in with the rest of the games in August, because that's when it is. You know what? Hard disagree. I was prepared to agree with you following you. And the more I lay it out, I'm like, no, guess what? Baseball's weird. It's a weird sport where the greatest players of all time fail somewhere around 70% of the time, when they're up at the dish, we see failure is a part of it. We see weather comes into play. We've had Randy Johnson throw a baseball and kill a bird on its way to home plate. Weird stuff happens in every sport, but weird stuff really happens in baseball. Like, remember when Jose Altuve got a tattoo, and that's why he didn't want anyone to take his shirt off? And the man in white and Rogers Center. And I can keep going with this stuff. Like, whatever the hell happened in the seventh inning of that Shin-Choo-Choo, Rugnet-O-Door, Texas Rangers game. Like, everything in this sport has weird moments in it. I love that they lean into the weird. I was wholly with you of, yes, logic, facts, dictate. Of course, come on, just put it in August. We're all humans. We all know how this works. We don't have to go to, like, chat GPT and be like, "Where did this baseball game have?" We can use our brains. But I love these statistical anomalies. I don't, again, this has now reached, like... Did you know Clayton Kershaw and Matthew Stafford went to the same high school together levels of... Yes, we got it, people. But I love that baseball leans into the weirdness of this. And I'm surprised I do, because if you just put me in a box and said, like, what would you think about it? First blush, punched in the face, go agree with everything you say. But the more I think about it, no, it's a weird game. It should have weird stuff in it. Yeah, I mean, the Blue Jays now... So, did you know that was the rubber match of that three-game series in June? So, they won the series against the Red Sox back on June 26th. That was the second of three consecutive wins. The Blue Jays were trying to... They were trying to resuscitate the season. Yeah. Obviously, it didn't happen before the trade deadline. We got to go back to the deadline now. They got to look at some moves. You never close it. They were at game closer. Or a game closer. That was fun. I mean, I never even realized, yeah, there's no anthems before the game, and, like, they had to announce all the pincers and stuff. That is weird. And, again, no, I love it. Like, baseball, game of weird stuff. I love it. Yeah, I mean, it's so weird that the Blue Jays are now within three games of 500, maybe a better team than the Boston Red Sox at this current point in the season end of sentence. So, the Red Sox just factually have a slightly better chance of making the playoffs. But it doesn't feel like the Red Sox are making the playoffs, okay? Like, they have fallen flat on their face. They had a chance, and then, you know, they've lost, I think, four consecutive now. Well, depending on when you think the game was played, it's five, actually five, but depending on, yeah. But, anyways. Depends how nerdy the person you're asking us. Yeah, so the Red Sox have some pieces there, no doubt. And I don't want to be a total weather vein here, because, you know, when the Red Sox were beating the Blue Jays in the first half of the season, when they were supposed to be the team finishing deadlats in the American League's league east, it was hard not to view them as like, wow, what a beacon, what a shining beacon. We thought they'd be the doormat. Here they are with a chance to make the playoffs. They're like Dante from clerks. They're not even supposed to be here. But since then, some things have changed, okay? Blue Jays were clear sellers, and they were, okay, maybe not able to recoup the greatest assets in the history of Major League Baseball. How dare you, please. Joey Loprofito has shown signs of life. Will Wagner is not hitting 500 anymore? And who knows what he is, but okay, a person. We haven't seen Jake Bloss yet. Some other pieces that are in the lower minor leagues that have even higher upside than some of those guys. And the Red Sox didn't go all in at the deadline, but they did acquire Danny Jansen pending free agency. They acquired assets for some younger pieces. And they're basically the same team. You know how I know? Okay, it's not their overall record. The overall record is, it's dissimilar. Maybe by the end of the season, it'll be even more similar than it is right now. Like they're zoning in on the Rays and Red Sox. The Blue Jays are for that middle class of the American League East. But with the now two wins against a Red Sox team that is above 500, Blue Jays are 13 games under 500 against teams that are above 500. So against good teams, Blue Jays are 38 and 51. Red Sox basically the same. They're 14 games under 500 against good teams. They're 33 and 47. So neither of these teams are any good. Correct. And the Blue Jays were able to recoup assets at the deadline and are playing their best baseball of the season now. So I'd like to revise my statement. Okay, okay. The season is working out better for the Blue Jays than it is for the Red Sox. Yeah, I think that, I think you look at it that way. It's true. I think that if you're, there's stuff that like, we don't pay as close attention here that would be like 10 pole moments, right? Like, you know, like Jared Durran picks up three hits. And I think the second game, although they're all running to running together yesterday, it's like, he has his big coming out party at the all-star game. And that's a guy they feel like they can kind of build around as one of their key cogs. Like, how did that feel when Manoa had that moment for the Jays a couple of years ago, right? So I think ultimately these teams are, these are two teams that live in the same neighborhood. They look a little differently in terms of doing it. But yeah, I think the fact that the Blue Jays were able to actually add to what will be the team that can compete. Like either of these teams in the next, I mean, you know, Boston has enough money and not that the Jays don't to throw around as well, but that you can kind of, you know, paper over things relatively quickly. But if you're looking at when are these teams gonna be actually good, the Blue Jays have put themselves in a better position to kind of be that. Now again, like Danny Jansen, if he reassigns, taking care of your catcher position is certainly not nothing and the Blue Jays are gonna have that question are going forward. But also the other thing we've talked about with these two teams is the direct comparables are so easy to each other because of the cornerstones of them. It's Vladi and it's Raffi and Raffi Deverse. And right now Vlad is just going at a clip that Deverse isn't going at right now. And like Deverse can get hot and he has certainly done that at times. But I think Vlad is the ultimately higher kind of ceiling guy there of the two. Maybe Deverse in the past had had kind of a higher floor. But Vlad, I think it's certainly showing the higher ceiling now. And then let's not throw out this part of the equation as well. And this is obviously a huge question mark, but Bulbashette does factually exist as a human and he hasn't this year. So do it like, and even if that means they trade him away and it's assets coming back, they've done all this and got to this point without the second of the two cornerstones of this franchise. - Yeah, it's true. And like I said, the Blue Jays didn't get, I don't think a perennial MVP candidate at the trade deadline. Prove me wrong, Joey Loperfito, but he has looked like more effective, no question. The Red Sox fella, it was hit in second for them who's been a revelation for them this year. Willier Abreya, they got him a couple of trade deadlines ago for Christian Vasquez. Like that was the guy that, yeah, I'm sure the Astros didn't think that they were handing them a top of the order hitter for a very good defensive catcher, but not like also the difference maker. I wouldn't think between winning a World Series and not. And here are the Red Sox now with like a real piece to their puzzle. No, these two teams are gonna be in a very similar spot, I think in 2025 where they're not the Yankees and they're not the Orioles. And they're probably not even the Astros in the American League. But luckily for them, there's so many wild card spots that, yeah, they're gonna be battling for the middle section of the American League. And yeah, the Blue Jays have some more assets that are either gonna play for them in 2025. Or yeah, some of these guys, maybe a Will Wagner or maybe a Joey Lopravito gets flipped in the offseason too. That's another thing. Like I keep saying, I don't think there's anything that some of these young players can show in the last couple of months that makes them fixtures on opening day in 2025. But it's a showcase for the rest of baseball that you can maybe package some of them and recoup an asset that can play for you every day in 2025. - Honestly, I have wondered that, and it's so unfair for a guy like this that the second he starts performing, this is where my mind goes. But I've wondered that about Francis. Like I don't wanna turn Bowdoin Francis into, who is it, Michael King, the Yankees gave up as like the big, big part of the Soto trade. I'm not turning him into that. But you see what a late turn can do for a guy in terms of perception across the league. And if the Blue Jays wanna go get there, again, it's not gonna be one Soto. Let's dream a couple levels down here. But if they wanna go get that impact bat and Bowdoin Francis continues to do, not taking no hitters into the ninth inning, but just continuing to be an effective arm. That's not the piece. You don't say, hey, you can have Bowdoin Francis and we'll take your three hit, like it doesn't work out that way. But all of a sudden you have a key kind of cog in that trade that you can do. And I think that that's another part of all this, is that we get so excited about the pieces that actually work out and you should be excited about them. But it also means you should be excited about what they can turn it into. Like we've all seen that, like you've seen that news story about the guy who like started with a paperclip and he traded his way all the way up to like a house or something. That's what GMs are trying to do. It's like they were able to get Bowdoin Francis for something. They put in some work into them. And now maybe, again, worst case scenario, worst case scenario, Bowdoin Francis just on your team next year as a effective starting pitcher. But otherwise, you take a low Perfido, you take Bowdoin Francis and you can turn that into something of note for your team. Somebody must have made a horrible trade with that guy. God, like where is the deciding line? I don't ever care enough to like go through the timeline, but you're right, there must have been a like, there was it. Yeah, they're turning point of a month trade, yeah. They're like, they meant to give him like point one Bitcoin and they gave him Bitcoin, just all of it. Yeah, some happen now. That was, oh, but before we move on, entirely off of the suspended game. Yes, great point by my buddy, Rick here. Okay. There's a fantasy baseball component to. Oh, like what if people having matchups changed from, well, yeah, what if you lost a very narrow matchup back in June and all of a sudden, yeah, that one home run that George Springer hit, which was, I mean, Staccast told us it was like 410. That was 700 feet. Okay, I got it. I don't know what Staccast does at that ballpark. It's weird, I don't know. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, the green monster is not that far away, but that was, that was powdered. We need like, you know, there's the temperature and then there's like the humidex reading. This feels like, yeah, that felt like a quadrillion feet to left field off the bat at George Springer. I would love dumb Staccast. Like it would just ask me either. Like how far was that? I'm a quadrillion. But what if, what if you lost a close fantasy matchup in June? Like, okay, and if. Oh my God, do you? Do you lose the stats? Also like, like, so, 'cause that didn't happen yesterday, that happened in June, are people's, how is this affecting people's fantasy matchups? So I'm sure the answer to this is that like, you know, insert fantasy provider here has come down with like an edict from God of like, this is the way we're gonna handle this. Poor commissioners out there. 'Cause guys who like, you know, especially fantasy baseball, like it's such an everyday thing. Like if you're like in fantasy football, it's a little different. Fantasy baseball, you care, you are super locked in. And what those commissioners are gonna be dealing with of the gripes. And it's like, buddy, don't, I don't, Yahoo did it. Okay, I don't know what to tell you. And they're like, this is unjust. We have to have a meeting. Oh, my heart goes out to all the fantasy commissioners, but also you know what you signed up for. So, good luck. Yeah, nightmare, nightmare, nightmare, nightmare. And just an idea for a fantasy punishment out there that some, you should have to be the commissioner of some, no, but some league you don't care about, but you have to do a good job of it. Just to just add that in there. I'd like that. Yeah, nobody should want the responsibility of being a fantasy commissioner. God, imagine being yelled at for free. Yeah, I don't play fantasy sports anymore. No, but when I, when I did, I love baseball, but God, that is like your own. It's an every, it's a job. Dreaming pitchers and you got to have that. Football has become that now too though, with like, oh, the Thursday and the Sunday every day. They're on Mars and yeah, I know. But yeah, I would like to know how this is being adjudicated. George Springer's home run was tallied in June for you or if they're actually, you know, counting it as they should in August. I've dubbed your bud brick, our fantasy insider. So get on it. Yeah, yeah, maybe he knows. Anyways, yeah, so Blue Jays are good now. So that's fun. The pitching is really good. God, it is amazing to watch a bad defensive team considering, yeah, okay, the Blue Jays haven't had enough offense since they consummated the Teosker, Hernandez, Lourdes Grille, Treyance. Since the before times. In the before times when it felt like, oh man, it's fun to hit bombs, but look at the leads you can blow against the Mariners in one game because your defense isn't good enough. And laughing bad. Yeah, all so bad. And they went way too far with it. The Blue Jays did, okay? Dalton Varshos was a lot of fun to watch play defense and Kevin Kuremeyer was a lot of fun to watch play defense and Matt Chapman was a lot of fun to watch play defense. It's not as fun if you're trying to keep yourself in two one baseball games and you are low to score three and four runs. Like there is a point of diminishing returns, but there's also what the Red Sox are doing, which is being the worst defensive team in all of baseball. It's like some of the plays that they're incapable of making. It's hilarious. It's ridiculous. Like again, professional athletes and just booting it all over the yard. It's there's something about baseball errors as well. Like, you know, guys make mistakes in other sports. Like we're like NFL football. It's so close. We're going to watch bad cornerbacks get burned all year long, but it's like, yeah, sorry, that guy's faster, you know, like what do you want him to do? Be better. I understand. But there's drops, which I guess kind of fall into the category, but it's like a humans coming to kill you, right? When the guy drops the ball. It's like, you know, like you've, I love to make fun of Cody C.C. for his like shot from the point that hit the opposite hash marks when he was a leaf, but that's a one off. And we do laugh to see these errors in major league baseball games. It's just one half inning. It's just it's ridiculous, honestly. And it just sticks out in such a way that mistakes and other sports really don't, honestly. I can't help but think about it. Yeah, no, and maybe it's because, you know, I would say that most people in like their backyards with like their father or their mother or like with their siblings play a lot of catch or take some ground balls more than they are running routes, like football routes, right? Like we've all taken a ground ball. Yeah, we can all like, maybe not every time, but feel the routine ground ball or a baseball ball. Yeah, the red Sox incapable of doing it. Apparently so. And God, I was running in field last night at my tee ball practice. Yeah, how'd that look? Honestly, similar. Anyways, yeah, the red Sox have accumulated more wins. The Blue Jays, somehow, despite having no defenders on the baseball team. Jose Barreas was outstanding in the God second game or whatever you want to call it. No, no, it's first game. But whatever happened to a month and two months ago, whatever it was. Yeah, he understood the assignment. It was that apparently the Blue Jays were going to use no pitchers that were involved in the resumed game. So he had to throw until his arm fell off. Luckily, he was able to go seven and two thirds. He's the one guy who would, well, I shouldn't even say that, but it's like, if you had to pick a guy to throw until his arm fell off, that would be the game. But it's never fallen off before. You said it. You said it. I didn't bend that guy. It really hasn't. He went seven and two thirds, allowing Brandon Little to come into the game and pick up the four outs for his first career save. So Jose Barreas is having a pretty good season. ERA 372. Blue Jays have three starters, having varying degrees of pretty good. Blue Jays don't have a single starter with a top 30 ERA in baseball among their qualified starters. I'm not counting you. Say Kakuchi who's gone now. Yep. But they have three starters between 30 and 60. And that kind of tracks, right? But there's no more Kevin Gossman ace of your staff getting Cy Young votes. No. And Jose Barreas can put forth a pretty good effort. But yeah, you can also have five innings where he's given up for ease. It just doesn't feel ace-like. I agree. Chris Bassett, what you get from him during the regular season is super valuable, but not really somebody you're amped up to see start for you in the postseason. Is this a way to live? Like, is it just a bunch of quality, but nobody at the tippy top of the quality spectrum? It's a way to live. If you were asking me, like, is this the way to live? No, the way to live is with a big slugger in the cleanup spot and a great two, three, and you got an ace on the mound. That's the way to live. But this is a life who make the best of it. But you can. I think a lot about what we talk about in all sports, the idea of teams that get you to the playoffs and teams that get you through the playoffs. And, you know, that's not to say that Kevin Gossman or Chris Bassett or Jose Barreas, or, hey, if Bowden Francis is poking around next year, can't have good outings in the postseason. And we've seen Gossman have days where he is back to ace Kevin Gossman this year. But I think that that is the thing that would be most concerning to you is I'd have no problems with that rotation through 162 games. Then you get in a playoff series and who's the guy you throw out there when you absolutely must win a game. And if your answer's Kevin Gossman, I'm not going to argue with you. Your answer's Jose Barreas. I'm not going to argue with you. If your answer's Chris Bassett, I'm not going to argue with you. But I will argue with you if you're going to tell me those guys are a definitive number one ace. And I just think that's where you look at. When you have a team that needs to be built up in the way that J's do, can't spend time worrying about the lack of an ace when you have plenty of other quality there. You have to patch the other holes. And then hear me out. Generally speaking, there's a frontish of the line starting pitcher that's at least quasi available. Maybe you really have to pony up. But if your team has proven that they're worthy of that and you can go do it. And it's one of these, again, like teams love to do the, hey, you can get a run and a half out of this guy. You know, I think that's the way you need to go about building this staff is the understanding that you probably have a bunch of guys who on their best days are high end twos. But you're not going to have a one. And if your team proves that it's worthy of it, you can go out. It's hard to acquire, for sure. But you can go out and acquire that guy through bully tactics of your farm system. And that's the point of building it up now. - Yeah, it doesn't feel like the rotation's going to be the undoing of the Blue Jays in 2025. - No, it doesn't feel like it's going to be necessarily the strength that it has been in previous years, specifically 2023. And I think there are a lot of people sounding the alarm bells for 2024. That's like, hand up. - I was, I kept waiting for Kevin God. I was worried about the tail end of last year, then he has the start he had this year. And he's only found a way to kind of write the ship later. It's been a weird like last season and a half tenure for Gossman. And honestly, I expected to be counting him out. I expected to feel vindicated kind of at this point in time. But he's just bounced back in such a big way after his start to his like funky start to the season. - Yeah, no doubt. It's not the number one area of need going into 2025. The offense is number one. And then a bullpen that at last check is now 28th in baseball in ERA. It's under five now, 491 is a major area of concern. But maybe not the back, back end of the bullpen where Chad Green has not blown a save this season. He's 15 for 15. And he also has an ERA of 165. Now, ERA is probably not the best way to evaluate a relief pitcher, but his whip is 0.87. - That's the one I like, yeah. - So, and Jordan Romano apparently, like, and it makes sense because the Blue Jays have a big decision to make with Jordan Romano who may need to be non-tendered if he's not capable of looking like the guy that was one of the better relievers in baseball. But Chad Green, at the back end of the bullpen, getting his longest sample as a closer in major league baseball has looked the part. It must be said, if Chad Green's your closer in 2025, are you, like, satisfied? Are you happy about that? - No, I would feel really, really good about a bullpen that, I mean, I'd feel ecstatic about a bullpen that had Chad Green as just general leverage guy. But if he was your setup man, I think that's a great way to go into it. We talk about age, we talk about guys who are a little longer in the tooth and that's green, right? And bullpen arms can be so finicky. I don't think a guy who has had the up-and-down yo-yo last few seasons that he has had, and I don't mean that performance-wise, just health. Where's he pitching? I don't think you want to go into it banking on him being your closer. You need to stack the back end of that pen with other options. It doesn't mean you need to bring in a definitive guy. I'm fine with Green being part of a competition, but just bullpen arms are so finicky year to year. The idea that, honestly, man, like if Romano had looked healthy all year long and you asked me that exact same question about Romano, my answer would be, I guess, because it's just, he is a closer and we don't need to get into the relittigating of Romano and how it can feel more stressful than it needs to be at times. But yeah, that's just the way I feel about just about all bullpen arms. And sorry, no offense to Chad Green. And I don't, honestly, you give the year he's had, he doesn't deserve any of this slight, but it's just so hard to sit here and say, "Yes, I'm uber confident about what this bullpen picture "is going to be eight months from now." Or, you know, hopefully 12 months from now doing the job. - Yeah, no question. And this is a team that needs to remake the bullpen, right? So there's gonna be relief arms brought in. - Yeah. - I think what you need to do is what you mentioned is give yourself some other options. - Yeah. - Fallback plans, right? Some other guys with relief back end of the bullpen, relief experience, closing experience. And Chad Green's probably gonna tell you, and if this continues, he's right. But I deserve the first crack of it in 2025, 'cause I'm gonna be here. - You can have it, yeah. - Like, what else would you like? Like, oh, you see that big zero where it says blown saves? Like, isn't that the whole point of the whole thing? - Yup. - I did that. And it's not like, I emerged out of nowhere. There's a reason why you gave me the multi-year contract you did despite the fact that I wasn't gonna pitch for you for the first year of it. So yeah, no, he's gonna get the first crack of it. But yeah, going out and getting a Kenley-Jansen type, somebody with some closing experience at the back end of the bullpen, who's not gonna be, maybe your clothes are opening day, but can fill the role of Chad Green can't hack it. And maybe that's George Armano bringing him back. - Yeah, totally. The other thing I'd say that if Chad Green was asking me those questions, I would just tell him to take that up with his bullpen brethren. There's nothing you've done. It's just, you know, dealt with you before in the past. It's like, I'm like a teacher, and he's the, like, 14th younger brother that's come through. It's like, okay, I had enough of these bullpen boys. I know what to expect, and it's never expect anything, 'cause it could change at any given time. - It's been a rough go narrative wise for Boston sports. Red Sox fall and flatten their face in the American League wild guard. - Yes, it's true. - Chase, the Patriots, you know? - Drake may good now, though. - I guess. Brandon Iuke says no, thanks. He's like, no, that, I don't want any part of that. That's his question. - I don't like losing. - Even with, like, the $30 plus million a year. - Stuff. - I don't want to go there. And now, apparently Jeremy Swamin wants more than $10 million a year. - The era of taking less than Boston is ever. - Oh, yes, oh, that is the greatest news story of all time. - We'll get to that in more Nax's. The fan morning show continues, Ben Annis Brent Gunning sports at 590, the fan. - Everything you need to know about the Blue Jays. Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Ben Morning Show, sports at 590, the fan. Ben Annis Brent Gunning, we don't have nicknames, but apparently this new mid-day show on WEI has nicknames. That's Jones and Kief. - Scoops? - Or Scoop. - Anyways, reporting that yeah, Jeremy Swamin, who is a restricted free agent, is looking for $10 million a year. - Just very quickly, when you first sent me this story, I, 'cause I'm so leaf-brained, I thought Sheldon Kief was opining on how much money Jeremy Swamin should make. And I'm like, oh my God, he is a jackal from Toronto. - No, no, it's a little different. - No, it is. So $10 million, as you heard a little bit on the clip, like where that would put Jeremy Swamin. Terre price, don't play hockey anymore. So let's just kind of like strike him for the record. Sir Gabe Abrowski is the leader in the clubhouse, making his 10 million a year on his cap hit. Andre Vasilevsky, neither guy with state tax in Florida, making nine and a half, Connor Hellabuck, eight and a half, Ilya Sorokin, eight to five. And then it's John Gibson, significantly lower, it's 6.4. You know the like common denominator with all those guys? - Ah, yeah, I do. - Well, there's a couple of different things, but one of them's like, they're Vasina winners. Like Jeremy Swamin, we can all agree is good, right? Like we think Jeremy Swamin is good, maybe even- - Well, hard to agree. - Really, really good. - Like, how many Vasins does he have? - I don't think any. - He does not have any. He does not have any. How many years does he have as the unquestioned starter in Boston? - That'd be also as many. - Yeah, zero. That's zero. So now again, like two things can be true. So he's unproven-ish. Like he has a, it's not like a tiny sample in these seasons, but he was sharing the priest with a guy that did win a Vasina, right? And now he's gone. And I understand that that probably helps his leverage a lot, like the Bruins like maybe should have considered trading, leading his hallmark after they got this done. At this point now, it's like Jeremy Swamin's like, what are you gonna do? - Yeah. - But yeah, he's good. He's been really, really good. And of course, Leaf fans remember him for his time in goal during that series. And when he wasn't, you were like, "Oh, even though all mark is good, like there's no Jeremy Swamin." But does he deserve to be paid literally as the highest paid goalie on a cap hit basis in the National Hockey League? - It is so nice for me to be able to do this about a non-leaf. - That's not about what he deserves. It's about what he can get. He's sitting there with all the leverage. You mentioned it, Boston is still in win now mode. They, for my understanding, will be until the end of time. The children of Brad Marchon and David Pasternak will be playing and somehow this team will have never stopped scraping into the playoffs and beating the Leafs somehow, some way. This is what you're supposed to do when you're a restricted free agent is use your leverage. Now again, I'm so happy that this story has come out because you can attest, I've asked all the insiders, "Where, hello? Where's my Swamin offer sheet?" Okay, yeah, it's nice. You want to go poach a couple middle six guys from the Oilers? Where's the one for the guy that would actually impact the league in a big way? And the answer, you always get back as well. It takes two detango, it takes two detango. This feels like somebody come off or shoot me a 10 million bucks. Now, chips probably sailed on that. Teams have their cap baked in. You can't, you're not going to be doing that. If you were ever going to though, if you were going to make a bet on a guy, it'd be a Jeremy Swamin type figure. Somebody who has shown promise, has shown pedigree, has played in a, you know, it's not a Canadian market, but it is certainly a tense market that cares when things go well and they care when things go badly. This is the guy you should be looking at. So no, is he, if you just stack up all the goalies in the NHL and you say 10 millions, the ceiling, nobody makes it, you got to be the best guy in the world to eclipse that. I don't think people are saying, Jeremy Swamin is definitively the best goalie in the world. But I think if you want to put people in a conversation for it, he can certainly be a part of that mix for me. So I think that this is exactly the type of money he should be asking for. - So 10 million AAV would put his compensation if you sign him to an offer sheet at two first round picks, one second round pick and a third round pick. - Yeah. - So it's like the only higher bracket is the 11.4 plus which is four first round picks. If you somehow get him to under 9.2, it's a first round pick, a second round pick and a third round pick. - And the important part of that is that Boston only has eight in change as far as caps are. - Yeah. - Now you can obviously make trades, right? But they have to get us into something to fit that in. And that's the part of this that is, I think is very, it highlights to an obvious extent how much Jeremy Swamin is trying to force the issue but wants to force the issue as a member of the Boston Bruins. Like I think that goes without saying. If he, his agent can read that cheat too and he would say there's a big difference between asking for above nine and 10. And I think that's why it's worded in such a way. But yeah, it's just, I'm happy that we finally see some noise on this thing 'cause it's been very infuriating to see the dry settle contract. Just don't worry about it, it's gonna be fine. And Swamin, again, this is the number one goalie for a team that has designs on making the playoffs in the Atlantic, they're in another one of these kind of push all in, try to keep it going while Marchand is there, years. And this is just lingering out there. And now that he's had the ask, somebody's coming back unhappy. And I suppose they did this last year with the ARB, but it's a little different at this time. It's not an arbiter telling you it's the team. - Yeah, and he is arbitration eligible still this year as a restricted free agent. So I guess they could go down that route. - But then you walk him right to UFA. - Yeah, probably not a great idea. And they do have like a backup plan. It's not a, again, a former Vesna winner in Lina's All-Markin, Jonas Corpisalo is pretty damn awful in Ottawa. - Yeah, we know how that movie's gonna go. - I think that he's gonna be good again. - Yeah, it's like, I don't think Jonas Corpisalo is coming in there and stealing the job from Jeremy Swamin. But the idea that Jeremy Swamin makes 50 starts and Jonas Corpisalo is good in 30 other ones or 32 or whatever, like that's totally a possibility, especially, this will shock everyone out there listening, little different being the Ottawa Senator's goaltender and the Boston Bruins goaltender. We should probably ask Lina's All-Markin about that in about two months time, but yeah. - He'll be telling you. - Yeah, not with his words, but with his eyes. - Yeah. - Long, long stairs in his post-game interviews. They should get back on the bike in Ottawa, I'd like that. - And yeah, you never see the goalies on the bike though, but yes, yeah, we'll be able to see it in his hockey reference page. Yeah, the Bruins did this to themselves, right? Like, you must have had some understanding of what it would take to get Jeremy Swamin under contract long-term, but you handed him the reins without him having a long-term contract. You have, and I think rightly so, put your faith in this guy who's never once been the unquestioned number one starter for you in his entire career, not even in the post-season. All-Mark started games against the Leafs in the first round. - Oh, and then last year, they did two years ago, they did the flip-flop too. Like, it's nuts. - Yes, and again, like, it should all work out for Swamin, 'cause I think he's very good, and every time he's been in net regular season, post-season, he's been really good, has the pedigree, yada, yada, yada. The other thing is, like, the Bruins were the team, and God, I guess you can make the argument that Charlie McAvoy is underpaid, and you can even make the case that 11-2-5 is underpaying David Pasternak, but at least like we're now in the realm of, okay, this is not Brad Marchand making 6-1-2-5, right? Like, the Bruins don't get to say that we just take less to keep it all together anymore. They're like the other normal teams that don't play in a no-tax state like Florida or Vegas. - Yeah, and especially, again, if I'm Jeremy Swamin, and, you know, maybe the answer to this is, he really wanted Nikita Zadorov to be a Bruin, but didn't have to go sign Nikita Zadorov right away on the first day of free agency and give him $5 million a year, like we're sitting here having a conversation, you could have found some defenseman that made, I don't know, just simple math, $3 million, and then, guess what? That's not bottom of the barrel shopping. Like, you could have gone off for a sheet of one of the oilers for that money that you're looking at here. So I think that's the other thing, but you have to look at the flip side of this coin that you're right, this isn't the Bruins where it's like, hey, you're gonna take your poverty wage, you're gonna play for a buck, and you're gonna like it. But if you are one of those teams that squeezes people, this is the uncomfortable place it leads you to. And we have done this in Toronto forever, and I'm not saying people are wrong to have this opinion, but you just gotta look 'em in the white to their eyes, and they will understand you're a man, and you're not gonna back down, and they'll take what contract you give 'em. Maybe eventually, but not without a standoff like this. And if you think this is awkward now, what's it gonna look like after Arb and Camp happens and everything there? So this is what it looks like. If you wanna really take a guy to the bitter end and walk 'em to UFA and do the arbitration thing, this is what it looks like. And I'm sure there is a big group of people out there just honking their hearts going, "Yes, I wanna live in that timeline, do it, do it, do it." This is what it leads to though. Yeah, 100%. And yeah, if Jeremy Swaman was an unrestricted free agent, is he getting 10 million? I'm not sure. Like, it almost works out better for him that the Bruins are under the gun so much that they've organized their organization in such a way, being built so much on what's happened in the crease, and then losing 50% of that, and handing the reins to this guy in the midst of a contract negotiation that you cannot let him walk. You can't go to arbitration again, as you mentioned, because, well, one, I mean, they mentioned in the clip on WEEI, there's already some ill will there, which is maybe feeding into the contract ass here. Yeah, but also, maybe gold is your crazy, and maybe you need to take him to Arb to get the best year out of him? Like, is that the most nuts thing in the world? And then you have him under the Arb number, and it's nothing predicates you from negotiating an extension in season, and if the 10 mil is the ask, I don't think, like, I know a lot of times you do, like, oh, you're buying up the RFA here. I don't know that the ask is going up astronomically, 'cause the one RFA year isn't included in there. You're probably looking at a similar kind of price point. So again, from their standpoint, I think they go, yeah, it sucks. Yeah, we're gonna go in that room. We're gonna say some mean things about you, maybe even meaner than we did last year. But you're a big boy, you can handle it. And if you're not, go check the auto deposit every two weeks, like that. And I don't think this can go without saying as well, from the org standpoint, if you're all gonna be mature about this, they cleared out all Mark for him. They didn't have to do that to your point. Now, I think the point you are the question you asked is an interesting one. What does he get? Like, if he's just on the open market as a UFA, or teams kind of going nuts for 10 mil, I would have said, if you asked me this right after the playoffs, at first blush, I would say, yeah, of course. Of course, some team would do that. I don't know the teams are ready to kind of like blow their brains out for gold tending here. I mean, you even see the ass grove trade, and it's not like the shark's got nothing for him there, but it's a super protected first round pick. If it's in the top 10, they get to slide it to another year. And yeah, okay, that's a shark's pick in another year. So maybe it's worth something. But the idea that somebody who could theoretically step into the NHL this year and be your starter goes for a relatively middling return. You have Swamin out there and no one's willing to move heaven and earth to offer sheet him or create the space or try to trade for him, make it awkward. And then even the senators are able to get all Mark on, quite frankly, a very nice deal for them, getting off of core pisalo. So it's just-- - You see Sorrows is making 774. - 774. Now, I think part of that is the Nashville of it all. Like they certainly have some of that. It helps when you don't have a guy at the kind of upper tippy top of the scales. - And it's an eight year extension. - It's an eight year extension. He signs it when he's 30. So there's some of the like baked in your stuff there. But yeah, it's weird how important goaltending is, but I also think this is just very proof positive of how I think NHL teams evaluate goaltending. They think they have an idea about it, but they are shooting in the dark just as much as the rest of us are to a certain extent. - Well, if you were gonna bank on a young goaltender, it would be Jeremy Swamin, right? He's 25 years old. He's produced every time he's taken to the ice and he hasn't played 50 games, but nobody plays 50 games. - And he looked so good in the post. Like again, just from the, what do I want the Boston Bruins to do? It was not have Jeremy Swamin and Nat. Like it was night and day, quite frankly, how much more imposing he felt than all market did. - But Sir Capobrowski had two vesnas. Wait, he signed his 10 million dollar a year deal. - I think people need to, you know, like we did this whole thing with the Leafs young. - Cameron Price was a Hall of Famer. - We did this thing with the Leafs young core though of like, oh, what have they done? - The league is not about what you've done anymore. It's not. Like, I don't have the number in front of me. It's like Slofkoski, the first round pair, the first overall pick of the Canadians company. He's done nothing. And he got locked up, smart move by the Canadians, quite frankly. 'Cause that contract's probably gonna age very, very well. Jack Hughes, he is now the poster boy for best contract in the NHL. And I think seven years left at eight million. He wasn't worth eight million dollars. The season the Devils signed him to that. This is what you have to do in the NHL now is you have to make, now, Swamans different in that he has more of a track worker than like, God, I can only imagine how offended he'd be hearing himself compared to like, yeah, Jack Hughes, nice. Slofkoski, ew, how dare you? But Swamans has that track record. But this is how the league works now. You don't get your heart and then get paid like a heart winner. You show the promise of winning a heart and then you get paid like a heart winner. And that's just the way, that's the way of the world in all sports, quite honestly. But specifically in this one, where getting a deal on the cap is so important that you have to end like, again, Swamans is a little different than those guys, but you have to jump when you think you have something if you want to have any chance of savings, especially now that the cap is going up year over year. Yeah, he's got a 919 regular season save percentage. And in the post season, it jumps up to 922. And we're talking about like relatively small sample, but yeah, it's not tiny. Played 44 games last year during the regular season. It played 37 and 22 23 and 41 and 21 22. And of course, eventually became the unquestioned starter in the post season for the Bruins, going into that second round series against the Panthers word. It went six games. I mean, does he, if you're just going on merit here. So again, Kerry Price, taking them out of the equation. Sergey Barrowski, the current record holder for AAV among goal tenders, just want to stand like up. But like, remember what we said about him literally two years ago. Yeah, but that was part of it, man. Oh, OK, when he was still making 10 million, though, like that was happening. It's true. Like it's funny. There's been two goalies to have a cap hit of at least $10 million. Sergey Barrowski and Kerry Price. And Kerry Price got the Montreal Canadiens to a cup final. Yeah. Well, Sergey Barrowski got the Panthers 2-2 and 1-1. When I can't remember what Lundquist was making at the tail end, but I remember there being a lot of discourse about, ah, you spend that much on the goalie. It's just hard to do it. And they've had the one run to the cup final there. Thought experiment for you. OK. If this is next year, so like next year, let's say the Bruins just like do the ARB thing. Swamans are your FA. That's a much less interesting conversation. But let's pretend he was an RFA next year with the Leafs having had 11 and a half million dollars. He actually is still an RFA next year. Did he get one more RFA here after this? Yes. God, what is this in debt or servitude? They have going on in Boston. I don't know if they have baseball time rules for these guys. Anyways, OK, so perfect. John Tavares, his 11 million dollars is off the books. He comes back at 3, 4, 5. Whatever the number ends up being, like can you imagine a world where the Leafs have all that cap space sitting in there? Now again, like they've signed Joe Wall, so I don't know if that like precludes them from doing it. It's more just the idea of having 15 million dollars in goalies. I don't think you want to go about your life that way. But Leafs offer sheet, they've had a year to kind of sit on the picks. They haven't been sitting there. Oh my God, like give me a world where the Leafs are doing it. I don't know that it's the prudent play, but I think in terms of goal tending, like can you imagine the firestorm it would be? Because quite honestly, if they want to, if they want to, they can, they're going to have a 22 million dollar crater in their cap next year. Now a bunch of that goes to Marner if he's back and Tavares going to take some of that and defense and yada yada yada. You could do that if you want. And there's a not impossible scenario where it's goal tending that sinks the Toronto Maple Leafs for 20, 24, 25. Let me take you back to game seven where Joe Wall looked fine until he wasn't starting, right? Or yeah, yeah, or Joe Wall, even during the regular season, but there was a reason why he wasn't given the assignment. And it was terrible, God, so bad. All the Maple Leafs wanted was for Joe Wall to look like half decent. He was not up to the job. Now he's making his cap hit, his extension doesn't kick in until next year, so he's still making lessons. And then he got Anthony Stolarz who's never started from the, you know, in a season. Oh, you know who the White Knight is coming in the season? Yeah, I know the Mad Murray of it all with all his cup rings and the what have you, sure. But yeah, there's- Totally possible. Imagine this Leafs team, they're putting it all together and maybe they even win around with the crappy goal tending, but the reason- Then it falls apart in a second, yeah. And Jeremy Swamin does the damn thing in Boston under that cap hit and all he does is add to his resume. And then he's making 50 starts and he is the unquestioned starter in the post-season. Yeah, God, I want to live in that world where the Bruins rude the day where they could have had him for a $10 million cap hit. Because that's the thing. Like, do I think he's in the class of Connor Hellabook, Andre Vasilewski, Sergey Babrowski, Ilya Sorokin right now? No. But like, he's pretty damn close. And could I, like, if I was projecting forward, would I take him and age as obviously a factor when comparing him to those guys? But like, do I think he could be in that class? A hundred percent. Yeah, I think it's entirely possible when we're sitting here doing, you know, as we all do at the end of the season, do goalie power rankings, and it's everyone's favorite thing to do. It's possible we like him a lot more than a lot of those guys, quite frankly. Yeah, like Connor Hellabuck, do you? Um, I'm not sure if you remember what happened the last time he played hockey. He apologized for playing so poorly, but because it's Winnipeg. And, you know, he's good. They went, that's fine. No worries, Connor. He's dreadful in that series against the Avalanche. She's getting lit up five, six regular in that series. Okay. And like, does that mean Connor Hellabuck forgot how to play hockey? And he fell off it? No, but it does mean he's 30 plus years old and a goaltender. And we've seen that movie before as well. So yeah, I think it's entirely possible by the end of this season. We're talking about Swamin as a vezna finalist, one of the top three to five goalies in the league. And guess what? That's worth, especially with the cap going up at least 10 mil. More than 10 mil. Mm hmm. It's kind of like the brunch would be jumping a 10 mil a season. Yep. But what I want to deal that would be for Jeremy Swamin. I agree. Oh, that, oh, that was fun. Do that from the other side. Can somebody leak something about dry side? Yeah. That was fun. Yeah. Finally, the chickens that are coming home to roost with the other. Except. Excited. Well, except it's like Jeremy Swamin is for sure signing us six year eight point nine. All right. No, it's going to happen. I'm sorry. Like I hate to end it that way. But that's going to happen. How do you cut into scoops, McGee or whatever his name is scoops. Kiefie scoops. See. Anyways, when we come back, Blue Jays are playing like entertaining and winning baseball. Mmm, at least they have for the last week. Does it make you less angry? What's the discourse going to be this off season, not more next as the fan morning show continues. Ben Addis, Brian Gunning, Sportsman 590, the fan.
