you're listening to the board game snobs podcast, a ridiculous podcast with ridiculous hosts that discuss ridiculous things. And any mention of board games is purely coincidental. And so, without further ado, and with a heavy dollop of shame and embarrassment on my part, I give you the board game snobs. I did a lot of hair. Are you ready? Go. All right, welcome to board game styles podcast is Jerry. I'm breathless. And the definition this is Gabby of a shield of a shield also called a plant or a stooge is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a personal organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with said person or organization or have been paid to do so. I will declare now, I don't even like this person, nor have I been paid by this person. I'm just simply saying that I made you a mixed team is going out on Kickstarter, Dan Hughes and and the other guy, Mike, they got a board game coming out on Kickstarter. And they made it themselves. They made it as a team. And I'm very jealous because think when two people get together, they can do great things and actually produce something that's worthwhile and the board game community just shows not only the motivation but the affection that they have for one another. And quite frankly, the fact that they've made a board game actually Dan's second board game makes me a little bit jealous. Really the only thing that we've accomplished speaking to you, Gabby and I and myself is mentoring a rather lost child that hasn't been on here in a while. Yes, for all it's we've mentored him too well. He's now being a responsible human adult working and working and taking care of business, actually taking care of familial obligations. When do they launch? It just says notify me when they launch. So they don't have a date. I don't think they have a date because it could be fluid. I will. Yes. A fluid date. I'm going to be having a fluid date with Dan because I'm going to be staying in his hotel room. No, that will have been last week. This is coming out the week that I'm there. No, this is coming out. No. Yes. This is becoming out the 28th. It better be. Have I already been on my fluid date with Dan? Oh, okay. Yeah, you're right. This is the week of you're there right now. I'm there in the future. I'm talking to you future, Jerry. Carpe diem. Sees the Dan on the fluid date. Yeah, we're going to go out and get a beer or whatever they have. That would be a fluid date. That's what I said. Coffee. Coffee. I'll go get a coffee with with Evan. Juice Force. Juice Force Ranger. Yeah. So that's what I'll be doing. You know what I'll be doing? Working. I'm working. That's good. I work too. Paying the bills. You work. I work. We all work, especially in weekend. You just have a better job than I do. I don't have a better. My job is awful. Well, but it pays the bills a little bit better. You stay home and in your underwear and answer the phone. I actually did work in my underwear the other. I know you did because I woke up too late. Because you FaceTime me. I'd be like, "Oh, I'm here." Yeah, in your face, at least have some quirks. Quarks. No way. Perks. Perks. Okay, I'd about to say, I do have quirks. What to say? And perks. Yeah. There are a few perks to working at home, but they're very few. Getting up at 758 and just walking in. Yeah, but I don't like doing that. I'm very groggy when I wake up, and I don't want to start immediately answering questions from people that are angry about their car being messed up. That's our problem. You don't guarantee anything. I do not. I'm trying to log in to Kickstarter and see whether stupid things are worse. It says notify me. It didn't say. I've already checked it. I already told you. It doesn't have a date. It just says notify me. You should all get on and be notified when I made you a mixtape begins so that we could support yet another Dan huge project, which will no doubt be somewhat successful. I will never hear the end of it because Dan is Dan, and Dan actually does stuff for the community. Whereas we, we just kind of exist. We provide content. To provide content. To prop up people. To help. We shout you out. We compel them to victory. Check out Dan's Kickstarter link in the show notes there. Boom. Link in the show notes. I've done everything I can possibly do. I have no. I don't need to do anything else. I would not play that game. That's a heroic move to put my link in the show notes. I don't even know what the game is about. What is a mixtape? I don't think I've ever made it. They'll have to. You're a little bit younger than me. I made mixtapes back of the day. I did make a mistake. I actually never made a mixtape. I simply recorded. I would wait for my song to come on the radio that I wanted to hear, and then I would press record. I burnt CDs. That's going to be their sequel. Yes. I burnt CDs. I burnt a CD for you. Yes, because I had Napster. Guaranteed, that's going to be next. And well, I've given him so many other good ideas that Dan. Right. Our quartet, quartet, quartet, quartet. I had Napster and LimeWire. It's so many viruses. I got, I've never understood why anybody, I deleted my entire. Grokster. You remember Grokster? I remember all of them. I got so many viruses on my Hewlett Packard. It went to weird things. I didn't care because you know why I burned you a CD. Sound garden. I needed that best. I know certain bands that you just had a harder time finding on LimeWire. I downloaded your MP3s. Chris Cornell was the end of my Hewlett Packard. I just heard a Chris Cornell song I really like. What's that? And I've never heard, it's an, it's author album, the same album as... R.I.P. Chris. From, from audio slave. I was speaking of which I posted this song. So Dan mentioning that this was from a couple weeks ago now, that Mike is going to AirCon. Oh, another con. He's like, they post every Sunday, they'll post for making this mix tape list and people post these songs for this specific genre. Which is a phenomenal advertising tactic. Slash engaging tactic. Yes. Yes. I want to know who Dan comes up with. Why can't we come up with something? I put stuff all the time, but you work. You don't, but you don't. Well, am I going to tell you about it? What are you going to do about it? We could do something. You don't do nothing about it. I can't barely get you to do that. You can't even put on pants to come to work. I ain't going to tell you about it. I keep my ideas for myself. Well, you say we're going to do stuff, but then we never do it. Well, it's because you don't have time. That's true. You don't have time. That's true. I've ruined everything. Yes. Taking a job that pays the bills and has insurance. Yes. You don't need insurance. If I was still driving for the job that I barely made any money at. Yes. And we were getting into crushing that. Yes. But yet we were putting out, we were playing games, playing games, putting out extra content. It was great. I'm glad that you recognize this is all your fault. And I'm glad that it's very heroic of you to embrace that even though I don't view you as a hero. This thing is neither do I, therefore, I'm a hero. What's your intention? Um, needless to say, we had some questions on our discord from Mr. Is it not David Allen. It was a. Duran Phoenix. Duran Phoenix. That's a great name. That can't be his real name. Like from the ashes, Duran Duran. I don't, I don't know. It's a great name. I have heard it and it's like a Star Wars name. It's like you go into like a cantina. Who am I looking for? There's Duran Phoenix. So here he says, do you think that someone's like or dislike of a specific game colors your initial judgment of them? Yes. It seems people say or did for a while. I don't want to yuck someone's yum. I hate that saying, but does that disagreement and enjoyment ever even subconsciously impact your thoughts on them? For example, you're describing your love of board games to someone and they go, oh yeah, I love cards against humanity. Do you make an assumption of who they are as a gamer? Do you decide whether they are someone you want to play with? And the real kicker. So he's asking several questions. There's a lot of questions. Do you ever judge yourself by your tastes in gaming? Yes. Does a game come out that everyone seems to love and you try it over and over, but just cannot see the fun? Yes. Does that make you hesitate and wanting to share your favorite games with the same friend group? No. So that's kind of a, that doesn't relate to me. I mean, my friend group is me and sometimes Enrique. But I will shame anybody. It's like we play the thing guys. So that question about to yuck someone else's yum, which I've had that thrown into my face many a times. I do not have the same response when somebody proceeds to disparage a game for which I so dearly hold in high regard, because quite frankly, I don't care. It's not that I don't care about their opinion. I just simply care about mine more. But also, there are times when which you will enjoy a game for different reasons, perhaps reasons that this other person does not have that simply the game means more to you, whether it be from sentimentality or just from the nature of gaming. It is a whole dude. There are certain games that just play well with certain groups because of those people. So there's that. I have run into that problem of yucking people's yum. So I have made a quite the policy not to do so. I have hindered my voice and my expression regarding certain things because I don't want to be one of those people that hates on something just for the sake of hating on it. But I do feel the need at times to make a suggestion towards maybe if you like this, maybe you like this too type thing, which obviously I'm suggesting something infinitely better. Either way, my point being and to Duran Duran's question, do you judge people by their tasting games? Not off one game. But I will say this recently, because of your constant and chronic habit of sending me TikTok videos, which I don't watch. What? I watched a TikTok video. Oh, but not the one I sent you. No, this was regarding a how that the the caption was, how do you know your boyfriend won't cheat? Naturally, this caught my attention. It shouldn't have because A, I don't have a boyfriend and B, I've never worried about anybody cheating on me. But this popular TikTok. Why would you not be concerned about that? Because you know the person you've chosen is a of a certain integrity? Yes. Or is it is it because of them or is it because of you? Both. I've chosen wisely. They have chosen wisely. But also, where are you going to get this? Literally. Where are you going to find this anywhere else? I ain't nobody else. What's in front of me right now? Yeah, you're going to find that nowhere else. That's true. You just not. This is not. You drag on all the all the British folks you can come be a star, you could drag anybody. They ain't nobody like me. A King Kong ain't got nothing on me. But everyone's unique in their way. I say that all the time to people who I want to help encourage. But my point being is that in this TikTok, this individual, this lady, it hurts my feelings. You don't watch mine, but you watch some random. No, I was getting, I downloaded, try to watch yours. And then it just popped this thing up. I was trying. I tried that thing up. I had Chinese spyware on my phone, which are now been hacked. Anyways, this lady filmed her boyfriend going on a boy's trip. And in this video, he was loading up board games into his bag. And she was kind of like, this is how I know my boyfriend won't be out at the club. And I thought, what a sweet TikTok, an innocent TikTok. And then I looked at the games for which he had sequence. I was one that stood out in my mind, like monopoly, like run of the mill. He had a stack of just run of the mill board games, nothing that were hobby board games. And I thought, I am judging this person's games harshly. He is that's a big facade. He's like, Oh, I'm loading nothing up. He is cheating on you, madam. Nobody takes sequence. Nobody's playing those games with no, and if he's into the board games that much, he's not taking those. Correct. That is not you need, you check his phone, check his phone. Needless to say, if I find somebody who really, really is into one specific type of game or has a certain favorite game or things of that nature. Yes, I do tend to judge them. Well, that's just a natural tendency. So for me, it's like you're coming at this from two. Well, you could be multiple fastest, but I'll just take the two. Get the two. One, you're looking for a friend. Go for the deuce. Yes, you are. So if you're looking for a friend to have common ground with, then you'll be upset that they like or don't like this thing that you like or don't like in whatever the opposite of, you know, if you like this game, they don't like it or if you hate cars against humanity and they love cars. So it's like, Oh, it's like there. And I was kind of hoping for some common ground to meet this fellow person that so that we could, you know, develop a relationship as friends, right? Instead, they like or trash. If you're just looking to reinforce your own superiority as a gamer over someone else, you've caught my attention. Then yes, you can judge everything they do and say and say that game is a poor decision because it lacks in this area. But then as a quote unquote real gamer, you should be able to lay out the reasons that game is not good. Yes, I see someone playing splendor. I assume their life is in shambles, but they spend time collecting rocks and they may they may very well may and they might be happy doing so. But too much. And who are you to yuck their yum, which is why they collect those rocks, which is why I stay silent and play splendor. Yes, I say nothing. As they as they go back to their cardboard box, put on the bridge, put on their helmet. Listen, or their mother's basement, as you so often like to say, I do with advice. Always with their neck beards. I don't understand the neck weird thing. I don't know. You always equate that with people of a certain neck beards as as a man with a beard now. And I keep mine trimmed, you know, a chimp strap, but no, I don't say I've got right here. No, I say, no, that's not a chimp. Yours doesn't go as deep as mine does. Well, no, it's because I have one chin. I didn't say it looked bad when you're covering multiple chins. Your beard's got to go a little bit deeper. You're saying I go. But the neck beer, when it goes down past you, you're underneath your Adam's apple. That's what I'm saying. I think neck beard in my mind is when the beard almost is solely on their neck and they trim it like way too low on the jowl scaggyly. Yes. And you do. You can't go too deep on the jowls. Did you hear now you did not because you know, listen, Jan, Jan, who's Dan? Dan, he's raved about my beard. Oh, yeah. He called it. He called it beautiful. You seen Dan's beard? He called it right now. I'm looking at Dan's beard. I'll be looking at his beard. He says he's had a beard since like he was 18 or something crazy. Really? That's a long time. He's had a long time. What does he have underneath there that he's hiding? Who knows? Would it be weird if he's shaved and he's like a wanted man? Like he's some they as he looks completely different. It's possible could be. He's shaved and his hair starts growing back on his head. Did you know? I did. A lawyer in Toronto fell hit to his death in 1993. Testing safety glass. Look at there. I didn't finish that. How do you know that stupid story? Isn't it stupid? Yes. So stupid because it gives me panic. It's just thinking about that because that's so one of the one of the case. So you might often hear of the difference between knowledge and wisdom. Yes. I know the difference. The guy that made a comment both the guy at the bottom said actually he says intelligence but I prefer knowledge. He says intelligence is knowing the glass is unbreakable. Wisdom is going to pull this stunt on the first floor because this fellow threw himself against a window on the 24th floor of a building in an attempt to prove to a group of visitors the glass was unbreakable. An act he had done twice before. Oh he got away with it. So he loosened it. He loosened it himself. Oh no. The glass did not break but popped out of the window frame. So it wasn't breakable. Oh yeah. Didn't. He proved the point but to his own demise. You know how embarrassing it would be to do something like that. 1993. Well that rhymed that now we're still talking about it on a board game podcast. It's not about board games 30 years thanks to faxed weird faxed weird. They need to let this man RIP because he's a lawyer. Some might say that's a good story. Well that's the thing. I hate that people hate on lawyers. I like that the lawyer jug. Yeah it's kind of terrible. It is terrible. Why do we want all these men to perish? People hate lawyers because of what they associate with. They need one. I love I would be a lawyer. I love the I love the law. I love arguing. I love the idea of there being a set of rules. If you're a lawyer you're into board gaming naturally just because the fact that it's reading and comprehending and being able to disseminate information and here's this here this one little thing for which this is this is the exception and yeah I love it. My YouTube is filled with just lawyers that are either going over cases or talking about weird things in the laws. I love. Yeah. I do not share. Who's your favorite lawyer? That's a good question. Better call Saul. Let me think of all the Jackie child. There's Nate the lawyer. He's on there a lot. Who else is on listen to? There's another one that does like body cam videos. This is interesting. I think it's not particularly lawyers because you don't ever see him in court. Although I have been the person. Lawyer or lawyer. That's a good question. I don't know. I say lawyer. You did just there. But I don't know if it's lawyer. It looks like it's spelled lawyer. You would think it's law. The law you're breaking the law and I'm breaking the law. I'd just say Esquire. You're not breaking the law. So I record the law. You remember L.A. Law? Yes. I do remember that's awful. You really? Yes. It's awful. It's like it's like it's like so Miami Vice would arrest them. Yeah. Send them out to L.A. and L.A. would prosecute them because L.A. Law was like the Miami Vice of Lawyer's basically. Yeah. I didn't watch L.A. Law. I've never liked the law. My mother loved law. Every law and order she watched it. She loved the law. Courtroom stuff. Dick Wolf. Few good men. All that stuff loves it. Anything that John Grisham wrote and turned into a movie court saying it loves it. Hate law rooms. I hate courtrooms stuff. They're very inaccurate and they're not, they're not, they're not realistic at all. A lot of them are mainly, but that's, I think, what makes it so. Make us so. We have a concept in our mind about what the court would be like, what the law would be like in these moments, these dramatic moments of like life and death. And here's someone who's risking it all. And here's somebody who's arguing and making points in this, this gotcha moment. Because that's what those shows are all about. They're all about this gotcha moment of, of, you get Nicholson on the stand and I did or the cold print that, that, that thing. You can't handle the truth. That's what you're looking for. And that just, it's not real life. It's not real life because first off lawyers never ask a question. They don't know the answer to number one, which is never depicted in any of them. I mean, that is a principle of, of cross examined. Now, I'm not just cross examination, but just putting somebody on the witness stand, you are asked every question you are asking, you know the answer to. So the, it is just to get it on the record or to try to see if you can't triple them up. But every show you to see is like, they're putting somebody on the stand, they will get it out of them. Like, no, you've already gotten it out of them. In discovery, there's no point of putting somebody on. Anyway, do you have a favorite law movie courtroom scene? You're into that stuff. You know, this is so weird, but the one that sticks out in my mind, I think it was probably the first one I ever watched was on JAG. And FYI, our JAG episode was the, one of our best episodes of all time. But there is a scene where Harman Rabb gets on, he's talking to some witness and he shows this diagram and he's like, so how many shots do you think were fired? I can't even remember what the situation was, was like, how many shots were fired at this plane? And the other lawyer stands up says, I object, you can't ask that. It's speculation. And he goes, you're right. I withdraw the question. There's no way for you to know how many shots were fired at this plane or something like that. It was like, it's like he purposely wanted the other guy to object so he could make this point of like the, the, the, the, the biased of the survivor bias and like what they did with the B-52s that would land. Yeah. No, the ones that got shot up and are like, these are the ones that got shot. Here's where they got shot at. So we must put armor in those areas. And then someone says, well, wait a minute, those are the ones that survived. The ones that didn't survive, obviously we don't see them. We need to put armor in these other places. That type thing. Jack, what do you do? I can't, I can't think of a, Jack just busted in here. Jack likes to walk in and try to sneak into the podcast. What are you doing? Anyways, so yes, I do judge people by their, their, their game collection and what they enjoy the play. It's just, and that's natural. Every, and first off, send your emails at boardgame, just snobs@gmail.com. Secondly, I will not be judged by this stance because you all do it. We judge people every day by their shoes, by their clothes, by the cars that they drive. Well, Ryan was saying, they had a rather long discussion with some very intelligent, you know, back and forth. Yeah, our discord is good at that. And Ryan was like, he said, I don't, you know, judge them as a person. I just judge where they might be at as a gamer, which is, you know, what we can do is like, if you're playing Ticket to Ride, is this, is this your first game? Okay. Well, then Ticket to Ride's understandable. Correct. I'm, I don't play it anymore. I used to play it. It was kind of okay. I'm glad I found better things. But if you're just coming into the hobby and you really like Ticket to Ride, well, that's good for you. That's nothing wrong with that. I'm not going to play with you. I take that into account, but I'm glad you enjoy it. Find others who do. But if there are people, if you ask me to play with you, I will not. And they are out there, people who hold these stance about these basic games. Oh, yes. Carca's on the greatest game. No, no, it's not. Move on, please. Nobody's playing Carca's on move. Please do not put this old tile-laying game in another list of the greatest tile-laying. They've improved it a thousand times since then. Well, I understand is why does El Hombre, which is a much superior, so more. That's a step up game, Jerry. Step up. I vastly superior game, but it's one of the four, as my, my, my close friend, Tom would say, one of the four pillars of board gaming is El Hombre, Carca's on Catan and something else, but. Pillars of the Earth ticked a ride over the water. Something of that nature, but there was like, he named it one time on a podcast that he used to have back in the day. Tom's done a lot of podcasts, but he talked about in 1993 where magic, the gathering come out and then Catan come out and he said there was the four pillars of Euro gaming. And I believe it may have been ticket to ride because he brought up Catan, El Hombre, no, maybe in Puerto Rico. And anyways, but El Hombre doesn't have a die hard fan base. Which El Hombre is probably, in my opinion, probably the one is mechanically. I still enjoy. Oh, Hombre. Hombre. I do not enjoy Carca's song is for. It's dull. Yeah, my wife who does not enjoy board games, she will play a random game with me. She'll play the lost cities. She'll play some other two player games. She likes, uh, what's the one with the tiles you put down there and the Azul, like Azul. Her and everyone I've introduced to Carca's own has found it boring. Yes. It's boring. But you have to realize that back in the day, that was a new concept. Okay. Back in the day. Sure. Please stop talking about it in today. Have you ever watched Citizen Kane? I think I have as a child. I need to watch Citizen Kane. I don't need to. It does not interest me in the least. I think it's boring. Everybody says it's the greatest show of all times. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I suspect it doesn't hold up. Cool. So I guess the point being is that in terms of judging people, we're not saying, Oh, you're looking at somebody and going, Oh, this is a new blah, blah, blah. And you're hating on somebody first, first starting off. Absolutely not. I like that when somebody has that energy and they're getting into the hobby and they're starting off and they're enjoying all these next level games. I like that. I have a bunch of, I'm looking at my games now. I have a bunch of next level games that I thoroughly enjoy. And I like stepping people up to the next level or playing something with them and saying, Oh, we've liked this. You like that type thing. But there is something that comes from when somebody is so adamant about these old, dry games that have been surpassed. I guess that's that's really what I'm focusing on is that are you the type that discontinually hold? And I'm guilty of that myself. There are certain old games that hold a love. I say old, but and I guess in board gaming terms, they are old, but I will say that Concordia. My God, there is nothing better. That's a fantastic game. I cannot. I cannot set up. So I understand the nostalgia because I cannot set up Concordia. I remember the first time setting out Concordia. Well, tell me again, this beat Concordia and what Concordia does. And being amazed by what I was seeing, just the board, putting things out, the cards, and then realizing that the rulebook was one page. It's a double-sided little brochure. And it's the rules are on the cards. And here's your cards. And you just lay a card down and you do what says on it. And it was so incredibly intuitive, but yet so interconnected. I mean, it is, it is, it is, I'm looking at Concordia salsa right now. I cannot. Yes. So there are these games that, that hit you where you live and that they're older and that you just have all these experiences with. And so thus you feel a certain way about them. But there have been other games that I felt similar about that got burnt. And I realized these are not as good. And thus, they go out. I'm thinking of you, Power Grid. Thank you, great. Thank you, Power Grid, for teaching me about just bidding and resource management and that beautiful catch up mechanic. An amazing game for its time. I sold it because I knew I will never play you again. That's like you look good for your age. You don't sweat too much. You know, I didn't finish that joke. But it, yes, but it was at the time that's what I needed, but it taught me something else and then to go, okay, there's other things like this. What other great bidding games are there? What other great route bidding games are there? What other great games that have excellent catch up mechanics. And so Power Grid did it. Man, there's a lot of them. Nobody's playing Power Grid right now. No. Nobody who consistently plays board games is like my favorite game is Power Grid. So, so this was a discussion that Invincible, Ryan, Soma, these are all people with real names, but these are the discord names. All good people. So Dave Allen says, I know Dave Allen. He was talking about, so that kind of went into, you know, the concept of what is a real gamer? Oh, I don't know. So he said also I had some reminations on what a real gamer is. So I guess, you know, if somebody doesn't like a game you don't like or vice versa, whatever I just said, you know, people are like, they're not a real gamer. They like, I would never say that about anybody. I would say that constantly, but I don't know what it means. But he says, I had some reminations on what a real gamer quote unquote might be. If such a term needs to exist. Okay, bear with me here because I'm going to use an extended analogy. I am arguably a musician. I have been playing, I want to say bass bass. He's been playing a fish. Dave, Dave Allen, Dave Allen's a bass player. He's all about playing some bass. I have been playing bass for a long time. What I have noticed is that people get into music for all sorts of reason, like say, making money, or because they think particular performer is cool and they want to emulate them, or because a musical scene provides a social opportunity, or it provides a medium or a platform through which to promote certain ideas or views, chicks, dig musicians. But the ones who stay with music, bass me up with music, who become musicians, are the ones who just fall in love with the idea of music itself, what it is, what the deep structures or music are, deducing the universal rules and generalities of music from specific instances and so on. And these folks usually transcend the genre they started with because they find all music interesting in some way. Anyway, the parallel I'm trying to draw is that some people get into games because their friends play games, and they want to hang out with their friends, or they're really into a particular theme or IP and they want to play a game about it. But the ones who become quote unquote real gamers, again, kind of a false distinction, are the ones who just get into the idea of games. Things like what are mechanics, what is the best expression of this game's concept, etc. So you end up becoming more about the games than the thing the game is about, or the people. Okay, so here's the too long don't read version. Some people will play games if they're at a party. A real gamer will go to a party if there are games. That was his discussion there. Like that, and then they're sitting dying E-walk. They had another long discussion about that. So yeah, it's so not to labor his point. Dave Allen, you remember a law law land? Of course. Okay. The ending of law law land was like devastating. They didn't end up together because it's while they're alert. She's doing her thing. She's gonna be an actress or whatever. He's being jazz. He's playing the piano. He's just doing the same. That's a true musician. Musician? Okay, I'll keep one. I'm wanting to say magician. That's what a cow does. Musician. Musician. Musician. Because he loves this thing. This is what he's doing. Yes, just different time, whatever. There's a level of sacrifice, a level of commitment, and a level of, I don't want to say obsession. Let's say devotion. I think those three things are what makes a board gamer that may just be the voodoo ranger talking. List those again. You don't make it this up as a go. You can't do it. Wait a minute. Give me a second. Give me a second. Devotion. It was really good sounding. Devotion. Sacrifice. Commitment. Commitment is kind of similar to Devotion. I didn't say commitment. Did I? We're going to widen this back. They're going to let me listen so I don't make it full of myself. I can't. That's a devotion. I know that was the last part. It's a sacrifice. Sacrifice. Not obsession. Devotion. What was that middle part? I think you said commitment. Which may have been just another word for devotion. By me, it could be. I may have just been trying to do that thing because in speaking, if you do three, you wanted to talk in threes. Three times for emphasis. Three times for emphasis. And I may have botched that. We may have pointed that out. But either way, my point is sacrifice. You're basically just a thesaurus. Devotion. Commitment. Just keep saying the same thing. I should have been a lawyer. These things, these things are all things where we seem to have there's three things you need. Dedication. Devotion. Allegiance. That would be amazing to go in. There's 15. Loyalty. There's 15 things. Fidelity. Look at all the same word. You need duty. Responsibility. That's what you get ahead though. You were sounding convincing until you did. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm listening. I'm like, yeah, it sounds good. Let me make a list. Can you repeat that? No. No. I cannot. I can't. Why did you? Listen, I know you know this in edited, but you can't do that to me when I'm trying to sound. You're supposed to let me go. You pulled the curtain back. Pulled back the little synonym curtain and busted you. Close the door. It's like, oh no. All right. So those are things that you need to be a board gamer. And so thus, I don't think that there's any number of games for which you must own or play. It's just that you enjoy an activity to agree that you're willing to commit a certain amount of time to play said game. And perhaps you enjoy doing so and it's, yeah, that's it. But I will say that there's, I'll bring up Enrique. He's not a board gamer, but is he? He is the anomaly because he would not buy a board game ever. Ever. He would listen to a podcast about them. He would never, he would never learn a board game. He's not motivated to do so. But you put him in a John's company game and not explain the rules and come in second. And so it's like, what is your definition? Well, he defies it because. As well, there, because there's too many. There's too many variables, too many, too many that. Enrique, being a good example, he won't buy him. He won't listen to podcasts. I don't think he really, his passion is video games. His, he doesn't have a passion. His passion is chicken nuggets. He's got, I think video games will be there and held up. So he, but when you invite him to a board game, he is all in. He has more passion in that moment than I do. So he's an anomaly. So it's like, so it's hard. There is no real, there is no definition. You can simply just say, well, there's no hard law. There's no hard rule. No, listen. There's principles, not rules. I've caught you in a logical fallacy. Oh, okay. Your fallacies. Gosh, you buy the fallacy. I lost those a long time ago on top of my head. Here you go. Those are follicles. Follicles, my bad. Try not to laugh at that for some reason. That's not a funny joke. It's not really that good, but it is. The follicles. But there were follicle lists. I got you. Wait. Continue your thought. I'm just saying is that because you can name an exception, does it mean that that, that's the rule? Ah, okay. Is, is. The exception is not the rule. That's what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. It's, that's exactly what I'm saying. So where, where was I wrong? Wait a minute. No, no, no. Repeat your, wait a minute. I may have just agreed with you. I may have just agreed with you on something that doesn't make. I don't know. No, no, no. Say what you just said. Because they're an exception, doesn't mean that that's not the rule. No, I was saying it's too hard to make rules. No, it's not. Basically, you can't make, you can't set up a guideline of what is this thing in such a regard as a real gamer. What's a real football player? In what regard? No, I'm just asking you. I asked the question. What's a real football player? And you know the answer, guys. So I can tell by your. I mean, if you're talking about. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're going to name all the exceptions, but you know the answer. So there's no need. I mean, when you say that immediately, I'm thinking of an NFL person. There you go. There's your answer. There's no need for you to start looking for exceptions. And that's why you know. But that's not accurate either. It is. It's very accurate. What is a football player? What is the common first thing that pops into your mind? Is it the 45 year old man that lives down the street that plays touch football every other weekend? Or is it the person who has spent their entire life training to be at a professional level? What's in that also could lend to stereotypes? What's the first thing that pops in your head is inaccurate. It's not right. Just because I think I saw, I think of a real football player as this NFL guy, a real football player, maybe he just in it for the money. He's not in it for the love of the game. I didn't say it, but it's about his motivation. But that's what we're talking about. A real gamer. What is their motivation? That's what Dave Allen was saying. Their motivation is the game. I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that. That's a, that, is that what he's saying? That's what I got out of it. That's why his too long don't read said. Some people will play games if they're at a party, a real gamer will go to a party if there are games there. You're in it for the game. That's what you're in it for. Okay. Well, just because that doesn't equate to in the NFL either. I mean, like you're not doing typical motivation. This is because there is no official organization for board gaming. It's like there is no professional board gaming organization. Well, I mean, we're discussing something that's really quite silly and you can't define it is what I'm saying. We're discussing. You know my stance on definitions. Of course you can divide. No, you can't. There's no definition for a real gamer in regards to board gaming. It's a hobby. There are some people that made a profession out of it. They might play games professionally. They could be a real gamer. I don't think professionally. There's not that many. What about poker? Yes, but there's an organization for that. Okay. Well, that's what I'm saying. So a real gamer. So then you get into the nitty gritty of, okay, are they real because they get paid for it? Are they real because this is their job? Are they real because they love it? Or is it just because they're getting paid for it? Are they getting recognition or they're popular? Then it's like, well, this person just has the heart, the heart of a gamer. But you know that's absurd because you just said it. And I'm telling look on your face. You know what you said was absurd. Don't be looking at my face. Well, no, I'm just saying is that. No matter how glorious. I'm not just saying as well. I was looking at you. I was just saying is that the thing about. Something being like, I don't, I'll agree with you. I think it's a moot point of what a real gamer thing. Like, I think that's kind of a goofy. It's a goofy definition, number one. Because it's asking about what is art. There's tons of stuff that goes on about what is art and what is an artist. And it's, I mean, it's just, it's loosely based. We ve veered a long way from Duran Phoenix's original thing because I think Dave Allen's comment lended to a discussion they had that. Well, actually it's in Duran Phoenix's. He says, I don't think I do this often with the board games, but I think I might do with other media. I have a friend whose opinions on movies I blatantly disregard due to poor taste. I know I claim to enjoy very light worker placement games, and I definitely have not found the fun in Zulcom. I hesitate to play with a good friend and his wife because they are quote unquote real gamers and play a lot of heavier games than me. And so that's what lended to the real gamer discussion. And then it kind of just, you know, went from there. And that's what Discord is for. They have discourse on discord. I thought it was just supposed to be discord. But anyway, so whatever, that's my opinions. I got to wrap this up quickly because I need to go home. Ah, all right. Well, like I'm saying that the fallacy of there being no, the exception to the rule type thing. Like I said, the whole board gamer, who's a gamer and all that, I think it's a stupid, not a stupid question. I think there's a, I don't know the reason for defining it. For instance, like, do you play? Are you a poker player? The reason for someone wanting to define it is that they're wanting to judge someone. No. And who are we to judge? No. No. That shall not judge. No. No, don't. Therefore, I will not judge you. If you are not a real or real gamer. No, that is. That's going to do it for this episode. No, it does not. You just said, wait a minute. Wait a minute. To define is to judge? No, not. Yeah, that's what I said. That's what you said. You're defined. Do you want a definition? So then that you can judge based upon that definition if someone is a gamer. No. Do you, why do I, I don't, as a person, a real gamer, I don't know. I don't care. Okay, that's perfectly fine. But a definition is not necessarily. You are pro definition. I'm all about definition because it's a solid. You love groundwork that everybody can agree on and say, this is a thing. Here's a. I like loose ideas. No, no, I hate loose ideas. And here's why. Here's why. And here's, here's my final answer. Give me some definitions to why. Here's my final answer. Whoever asked this question, and for everybody who will ever ask this question, here's the deal. We should all just lay out the definition that is common amongst us and say, to be a board gamer, you got to own 50 games and play board games, X amount of times in a week over a certain period of time, so that we can stop having this stupid conversation. How about-- How dare you shut down the conversation on our discord? By having a definition. No, you just shut it down with your definition. No, I did not. No, I did not. I did not give a definition. I was giving an example. But you want one. I want a definition. And if there is a definition, there's no need for discussion. Exactly. Exactly. And then we wouldn't have content. Because then it's solidified. Nobody goes, "Who's a professional this? Who's a professional that?" You have an answer for that. That's my take on it. And-- That's a definite ending to the show. And you'll have to cut out yet. No, you have-- No! We got to go. All right, we got to go. You have-- I am at the DICE Tower treat with my good friend Tom, and my new best friend. Dan. Yeah, it was gonna say-- Dan Evan. Evan. It was gonna say Evan. Devin. Evan. They should combine them until one-- Oh, his name is Evan. Spirit Animal. Devin. Devin. Devin, Evan. Well, I'm sure you're having a blast. I might be, none. I hope you haven't gotten kicked out. I hope we'll probably be home by now. Or brought great reproach upon the board game Snob's name. I didn't do. You intend to? I intend to. I will never be back to this retreat again. I'll never go to it again. Gonna burn this bridge. Gonna burn every bridge. I will walk up first. I'm gonna go nuclear. Throw punch Sam Healy. And tackle Z. What was the name of that movie? The Bridge of-- The River Quai. River Quai. Bridge Over. The Bridge Over River Quai. Yes. All right, that's gonna do it for this episode. All right. Until Jerry comes home safe for the next weeks. I intend on taking this set up with me so that I can record with Evan. Oh, okay, there you go. I'm gonna record with Evan. I'm Gobby. And Dan. Oh, just Jerry. That's Jerry. And we'll see you next week. Bye-bye. Thank you for tolerating this episode of the Board Game Snobs. Stay classy. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
