The Trev and Ben Podcast
243: The Trev And Ben Podcast Episode 243
(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to another Trevin Ben podcast. Hello Ben. - Hello Trev, how are you? - I'm all right, how are you? - I'm relieved. - Relieved. - I have cleared my name. - I knew the court case was pending. (laughing) And we haven't been able to talk about it. It's one of those things where, you know, the lawyers have said, don't talk about it yet. - Uh, as if we could afford lawyers. (laughing) - But I'm glad that we're able to talk about it. Can I say I'm relieved that it's finally over. And the fact that we're able to record, I'm assuming either sentencing hasn't taken place yet. - Or you've been exonerated. - I was accused of a crime that I did not commit. - Well everyone says that. The prisons are full of people who didn't commit the crime. - Well let's put the court of Trev into session, shall we? And put your case and let's see what I decide. - So I mean, are we reprising your role as Judge Trev? - Yeah, if we could do, which means I have to put the voice on again. (laughing) I'm glad Trev. - So, it all began when I got to work and one of the managers sidled up to me, which is never a good start to the day. And they said, we've got a bit of a bone to pick with you. We've received a parking ticket for a van that you appeared to be driving, but we're very confused as to what's gone on. - Okay. - And I said, okay, I'll need a bit more. I said, one, how much is the parking ticket? I said, 85 quid. I thought, oh, that seems reasonable. (laughing) - Where were you parked, Buckingham Palace? - No, I was parked in the local supermarket car park allegedly. - Right, well, I mean, often these fines are 85 pounds, but if you pay within a certain number of days, it's half, isn't it? - Yes. - So, I'm assuming that they were looking at shedding out 40 odd quid somewhere down the line. Out of our public money, probably. That's why stamps keep going up. (laughing) - No, actually, I will say, if you do get a parking ticket a legit one, it comes out of your own money. Yeah, they pass on to you and you pay it. - As well, I'd like to hear. - I'm all behind that because you shouldn't be messing about with parking fines. It's a bad idea, which is why I don't. I said, so what's gone on, what's happened? They said that the local supermarket, who I'll choose not to name, because I think it's actually some other company who runs their car park anyway. - Could I just say, and that's a weird thing to me, that, because I think that's generally the case now, that you've got a supermarket and then somebody else runs the car park. If I find that such a bizarre, it's capitalism. Capitalism and it's worse, Ben, that's what that is. (laughing) A friend of mine, a friend of mine. I think it's his sister about a year or so back, had a similar thing, got a ticket through from a supermarket, having supposedly outstayed the amount of time you're supposed to be in the car park, right? So she contested it at the time. And then it all went quiet. So I think she just assumed that she won the appeal. And then a year later, she gets a letter saying, "You know I was 500 pounds." - She's whizzed. - So she's now having a battle of her own, but then they seem to think like it's not the supermarket, but some, I'm not gonna admit some of my words here, some unscrupulous toss part. I mean, who runs car parks? Like, they're not gonna tell me, they're all gonna be gangster times anyway. So, okay, so you've come a cropper in a car park. - Well, yes, and the problem is I said, when, when is this supposed to have happened? And they said, oh, about two weeks ago, do you remember what you were doing? I thought I don't remember why I did this morning, let alone two weeks ago. So I said, right, well, I've got no hope of remembering what's happened to you. And I said, what have I done? And very much like your friend, they, you've outstayed your welcome in the car park. I said, right, well, what's happened? They said, you arrived at the car park at just after 2 p.m. And you left the car park at just after 6 p.m. on a work day. - Right, that's, I mean, that's suggesting that you've sat in your van for four hours in a car park, not delivering any mail, not connecting any mail, you've just been sitting in a car park. - Whilst I should have been working, yeah. Contrary to what people might think, I'm actually quite a hard worker, and I like to get it done, get it finished, get everything clear and go home. So the idea that I just, for no apparent reason, just sat in a car park for four hours, I found a bit hard to believe. So they said, did anyone else, maybe did you switch the van in the afternoon? Did someone else leave it there? I thought, God, no, it was definitely me, but I'm gonna need a minute to work out what's happened here. And I said to them, for the record, you know I didn't do this, right? And they said, yes, we do, because, you know, they do have abilities to track A, where your van is and B, where you are. So they knew it, and they had proof I had scanned it. - It's all very Orwellian at the Royal Mail, isn't it? - It is a big brotherish, isn't it? But yes, thank you. I mean, this big brother equipment actually saved my bacon, because that same equipment proved beyond any shadow of a doubt, that I had not sat in a car park for four hours. But then I had to answer the riddle, what has happened to lead them to believe I was there for four hours. And I came up with the solution, and this is gonna get technical, but bear with me. - Carry on, Miss Barber, I'm fascinated. - The car park is run, I'm still talking. - It's run by an ANPR system. - Oh yeah, yeah. - Automatic number plate recognition. - Yes. - And I legitimately popped in at two o'clock, and I bought myself a sandwich for lunch and left about five minutes later. - Right. - And I must have got a text, or maybe I decided, like I said, two weeks ago, who knows what I was thinking. I must have forgotten ingredient for dinner. So after work, when I finished, I popped back. - Oh, using Royal Mail's petrol for personal shopping. - It's on the way home, if this has been cleared, it's okay to do, so long as you're taking liberties and driving miles, it's okay. Before you try that one. - Well, I'm just speaking for the general public, just to know where our money's going, the shopping chips for Royal Mail's staff. That's where it's going. Next time you stop, come up, remember that. - But now you're asking the question, well, surely then, the ANPR would have seen you arrive and leave both times. - Well, you'd have thought, if it was working correctly, that that would be the case, yes. - So, the only possible scenario I can concoct in my head, and it sounds far-fetched, but it's the truth, is that for some reason, at two o'clock in the afternoon, when I went to get my sandwich, the ANPR system saw me arrive and logged me as in the car park. Somehow or another, maybe someone tailgated me as I was leaving, my license plate wasn't clocked on the way out. When I returned at 6pm, for some reason, my license plate's not spotted on the way in, but was spotted on the way out again. - It sounded like a tree. - Leading them to believe that I had been there for four hours when that was, in fact, nonsense. So, thanks to my Plaro-style investigation skills of working out what I thought had happened, my management then having to bless them for being so patient with me proved beyond reasonable doubt that my story was true. I was cleared, I have no fines to pay, I'm good. - Right, well, how did they prove that they go to the supermarket car park owners and look for CCTV? Because, I mean, you talked about a Plaro-type investigation. All it is at the moment is a story without any evidence to back it up, and in the quarter, evidence is bad about. - Fortunately, my management was very kind about the whole thing, and we're able to pull up all the data from exactly where that van had been all day, where it moved to, the fact that it was being driven, where I had been, you know, scanning in and out of places, proof that I was geographically in a different fucking place. So, they had to print out all of this factual information and present it to the car park to say, we're not paying this, no one's paying this, because it's your cock up, and we have irrefutable proof that the van was not there where you say it was. - Please tell me they use that word, I mean, that's, 'cause I think if you use that word, that makes you sound pretty official and sure of your facts. - I don't know how, kindly, once I gave them my explanation, my slightly sheepish explanation, they then came back to me and said, by the way Ben, you were absolutely right, that's exactly what happened. So, for a little warning to any listeners in their own personal cars who aren't being monitored every moment of the waking day, I would suggest that you don't go to supermarkets, car parks, with ANPR technology twice in a day. I know most people won't anyway, it's a bit of a weird thing that I had to, but just be aware that you can get yourself in a situation where it's almost impossible to prove you haven't done it unless you were very fortunate, like I was, to have technology on you that can prove you weren't there. - I keep talking to people about this, I don't know whether it's just me, but everything is a battle, like just the smallest things in life, there's a battle. Like, you know, you've just gone into a supermarket car park and now you've had to have a fucking battle. - Yeah. - And it could have got even worse, like my friend's sister, you know, that's an ongoing battle that's probably gonna go on and on now. She's even had letters from like Baylifts now. - Oh, what's this been passed to a debt connection agency? - Yeah, 'cause she's refusing to pay, 'cause she's claiming that this wasn't the case, that she didn't outstay her welcome. So probably a similar thing. And you say, "Oh, why is everything such a battle?" But I mean, you're right, the technology can be there to save you in these situations, but I also think it's adding so much stress to our daily lives. - No, and this sent me into a tailspin until I managed to work out the very convoluted explanation as to what actually happened. I was thinking, you know, shall I set up a GoFundMe page for the 85th quid? Shall I start making banners, you know, free the East printed one? - Yeah. - I'm an innocent man. I thought this is appalling, I don't know what to do. - Well, I think the courts of travel fight you in a sense of all charges, you couldn't walk free with your head held high. - Thank you, and I'm never going back there again. (laughing) (upbeat music) - No, but it seems like the you had to sort of get into the mind of a detective to sort your problem out and really embody the mind of a Poiro-type character. - I did, I did say Poirot, but I'm wondering if there's anyone a bit sort of sexier. I could have said instead of Poirot, Luther. - You see, I don't want to, you know, but I think you're more of Poirot than a Luther-type character. I could, I mean, Poirot's got the lovely little tash going on. - Yeah, I haven't shown you for a few days. - He's a bit OCD. (laughing) - So you're not giving me Luther. - I just think Luther's quite, Luther's really, he's a hard blokey, you know. (laughing) - You're saying I don't have the sex appeal of an Idris Elba or that. - I just don't think you've got the grittiness of, I mean, I don't mean that in a nasty way. - All right, let's just say what you mean. Just say Inspector Cluso, and let's be done with it, shall we? - I did crack my first case. - You did crack in first case. But it's getting into the psychology of another sort of human, isn't it? When you've got to work out something, you've got to crack the case. Crack the case. You get to become a detective. - I think that was Colombo you were doing that. - You're like a Colombo. That's, that's who I think you are, because Colombo is very astute, very clever, but he, he works in a sort of fairly, having said you got OCD, but there's a sort of, there's a sort of clumsiness about. (laughing) About Colombo, isn't there? But he, he works it out, he's very clever. So I think you could do that, 'cause you're very good at solving puzzles, and looking for evidence, looking for loopholes. I think you'd be good at that. - Yes. - So let's call you a Colombo type character. - Okay, thank you. - Happy to settle on that. - I'm happy with that. It's better than, it's better than Cluso, so I'll come back that or two. (laughing) - But when you sort of have to get into that sort of mindset, there's nothing more sort of interesting than learning about people and how they are and how they work. You know, see, if you have to become that sort of character, you learn those sorts of things. - Yeah, sort of method acting. You've got to become the character. - Think how they think. - Yes, Jim Care is like, that isn't he, when he plays a part. - Yes, I remember, especially the film Man on the Moon, where he portrayed Andy Kaufman, he was an insufferable arse when he was on set. He just would not drop the character with his method shit, drove everyone else loopy. - And particularly when he played the, what was the other character that Andy Kaufman used to play, that sort of singer, I can't think of his name, but when he was that character, he was almost insufferable, completely disruptive. - I mean, if anyone knows what we're talking about, they'll be screaming the name now, that's gonna bother me for the rest of the podcast, that is. - Is it Tony something? - Oh yes, that sounds right. - I'll find out, I'll find out. But anyway. - Some people screaming at some people don't give a shit. - Just get on with it. Tony Clifton. - Tony Clifton. - Tony Clifton. - But again, Andy Kaufman is a fascinating character, the psychology of that man, and the way he operated is a fascinating thing. And psychology is a fascinating thing. And I was reading this week, a scientific study of the mind and behavior of people. - Oh nice to know you're sort of broadening your reading horizons, Trev. This sounds like a very sort of intellectual thing for you to have been studying this week. - But I've always been quite interested in psychology. There was a time in my youth where it was a possibility for a subject I might study. I did try once to read this book, somebody recommended it to me, called The Psychology of the Self, by I think his name was Heinz Cohat, something like that. So I went out and bought it, and I thought this is gonna be interesting. I like to learn about how people work, how people operate, how the mind works. - I've met a few of your friends, which one of them recommended that you read that? - I've got some very intelligent, intellectual friends in my circle. - And the main thing that one's I've met, yeah. - And I read this book, and man, I didn't understand a word of it. I thought I'd rather than study psychology, 'cause there's a so way of weight. But then I think you probably have to have studied to a certain level to have understood this book. It was like a textbook for a study. But anyway, so I do enjoy reading a lot of stuff, and I was reading something this week. This is a much more simplified look at psychology. I have to tell you, but it was looking at certain things that are fairly common in all of us. Psychological traits that take place. I'll give you an example. - Go ahead. - If you can speak two languages, you unintentionally change your personality when you go from one language to another, and apparently that is a fairly common thing. I can't speak any other language, apart from a little bit of G.C. French that's still there in the back of my mind with a little bit of G.C. Latin that doesn't come in useful at all. But if you could speak a language fluently, two languages, you would change your personality. - Really? I wonder if I'm a nicer person in Spanish. - Well, that's interesting, isn't it? Because would you think the Spanish are just a nicer society? It's a nicer group of people. I mean, that's sort of, I guess, what your mind would turn to, you would become Spanish. - That's a very interesting idea. I don't know. I am, I famously ditched learning Spanish. I think it goes back to what you were saying earlier about me having a sort of borderline ADHD thing where I was learning it very vividly for quite a long time with the Duolingo app. - Yeah. - And then, again, through no fault of my own, I was wronged, technology let me down again, and I lost my hundreds of days streak, and that was enough to deter me from bothering to ever learn Spanish again. - I mean, that's such a poor reason to give up learning, and I would think in good of days. - In good of days. - It was so much time, too. - Yeah, but my phone, I was on a ship. It's a long story. It didn't connect to the Wi-Fi, so the app decided my streak was broken, even though I had done my Spanish for the day, so I thought, fuck you, Duolingo, and your judgmental owl, I'm never doing such shit ever again. - But that's an interesting psychological thing, isn't it? I mean, I'm the same, like, when you want a streak, I'm the same with Wordel. Like, I'm on such a good streak with Wordel. I'm on now 550 on days of a good streak of Wordel. And if I get to the final, like I start to get nervous if I'm getting towards my sixth guess, but I haven't got the word. Actually, I want a streak that I cannot bear to break now, and a fear that one bear will break that streak, and then will I ever want to play Wordel again? - Well, that'd be interesting, because if you can pick yourself up, dust yourself down, and start back from one, and that 500 odd streak can go down the toilet, but you'll start again, then you're a better man than I am, because I deleted the app so fast on my phone. - I used to play, which I still play occasionally, there's a Wordel unlimited website, so it's basically Wordel, but you can have as many a per day as you want, and I used to do that quite a lot. What you should really know with that website is it wouldn't correctly measure your streak, so it would say successful streak, and you might have had, I don't know, 30, 40 on a row that you've got, but it'll always say, like, maximum of three. I'd just say, "Well, my streak is way more than that, "that is annoying me." That's a lot of things, that bothers me. - Yes, I think we all have a little bit of that inside us. - Okay, here's another one that's an interesting thing. No, do you often, when you're planning something, do you have a plan A and then a plan B? Do you always think, when if that goes wrong, I can do this, do you plan that way, or are you more reactive? - No, I'm very much the first one. I tend to have planned it out exactly the way I think it should go, and I don't really have a contingency plan. If it goes wrong, that will be a catastrophe and I'll have a panic attack. (laughing) So no, do you plan for a plan B? - Sometimes I do, but not always. If it's a bit of work, and I think about the problems that could come, I'll always have a plan B in mind, 'cause I know that I've got a deadline to meet, so I'll always think I've got a plan B. But things in life, probably not. The weird thing is that with a plan B in place, this is again a common thing, often your plan A won't work. Now that's an interesting thing, isn't it? Almost by having a plan B, you're setting yourself up for plan A to fail somehow. - That's probably because you're not investing enough thought into plan A if you're worrying about what the plan B is. - Mm, that's interesting, yes. - So if plan A is less thought through, then of course it's less likely to work. - So basically what you're saying is you're spreading yourself too thinly, so A is not gonna work because you've not given it enough time and thought. - Yeah, it's interesting. - Because of all that time you've dedicated to worrying about the alternative solution, it means that you've spent a lot less time with your first solution, which is now a lot flimsier than it would have been if you just sort of stuck to thinking about that. - Problem is though, as bulletproof as a plan might be, there are things you can't control. - Yes, that is true. - 'Cause I've never thought of myself as a control freak 'cause I've always very much gone with the flow, with a lot of things, just dare whatever, but I think as I get older, I realize that there is a control freak within me and when I can't control certain things, that really does stress me out. And it's not to say that I control events or people, but just when I can't control, I don't know, for example, recently, as you know, the whole saga with my computer, that's something I couldn't control and that threw me into complete head spin 'cause I couldn't solve it. There was nothing I could do to control that situation. - Yes, I think I must admit I am also a bit of a control freak. I like to have things organized and planned as best as I can. - Okay, here's a couple of other things for you. These ones are slightly more physiological, I suppose, rather than psychological, but they are this fascinating to me, our brains have decreased in size by 10% since the time when we were hunters and gatherers. Now, I've said beyond this podcast before, I think we are getting more stupid and it might be that our brains are shrinking and that might be the cause of the extra stupidity that seems to be in the world right now. - That seems like some very fast evolution to have shrunk by 10% in a matter of a few, what, thousand years? - Yes, I suppose because perhaps we're not using those bits of our brain that we need to hunt and gather. - But we have an appendix that's useless, but-- - Yes. - But we haven't, you know, shed that, haven't we, so-- - Not yet. - Why has the brain started shrinking? - Eventually, surely, the appendix will just disappear and we won't have that anymore. - Well, I guess so, but this is slightly troubling news. I mean, how small are our heads gonna get? - Well, I think by the time, give it another 100,000 years, I think we'll be so stupid, we'll have the tiniest brains, we'll be like little sparrows, we'll be as intelligent as sparrows and we'll be being ruled by crows. (laughing) - That's quite a prediction. - I think the crow will take, the crow is, you can see the crow, or the whole Corvid family building in intelligence and, or other primates. I mean, there's a brilliant video I've seen a few times now, I'd probably, incredibly crawl this, I don't really know the background to this video, but I've seen it a few times, I've been a ragatan, I've had driving a golf buggy. (laughing) Even with a passenger end, driving it very competently. You think, well, maybe, maybe that, the ragatan is building up, and let's face it, we've given, as humans, we've given the ragatan a terrible time, so maybe it's plotting its revenge without brains shrinking. Give it a few thousand years, we'll be so dumb, and the ragatan's will overtake. I don't see the human being, the dominant creature on Earth, forever more. - Well, maybe they will overtake us, maybe they will be driving around and we'll be just sat there, dribbling from the mouth, but it's all fun and games, orangutans, until the parking tickets start coming. (laughing) We'll see who's laughing. (laughing) - I had a weird thought the other day. I was out of the garden, and I was just watching at the birds, just flattering about and flying about. - Blimey, you are how old, 41? - 46, nearly 46. - 46, going on 96. I was sat in the garden, watching the birds. - You know what, it's a lovely thing, you just need to see the birds come, especially the robin, I've got a lovely little robin, and I say, I know Mr. Robin, and it hops about, and if I'm doing some cutting the grass or anything, it'll come down and come very close. I feel very, I feel a close bond with Mr. Robin, we've become very close, but I was watching the birds, and I-- - I need to get a shotgun and put you out of your misery, like old yellow. (laughing) - It will be sweet relief. (laughing) But I thought, would man, would man without birds, had there not been birds flying in the sky? Would man have aspired to fly? Would we have created airplanes, helicopters, gliders? Would we have created vehicles to lift us off the ground? Had we have not been influenced by flying creatures? If there wasn't anything that flew, would we have got to that point where that's what we wanted to do? - I mean, with all due respect, how the fuck do you think I know the answer to this? (laughing) But I would hazard a guess at yes, because we'd still want to find the quickest way to get from point A to point B. Train tracks from country to country are unfeasible in some cases. So we would still have the science to work out aerodynamics, and a plane would be the most efficient way. So yeah, I think we probably would have solved it, but again, I don't know. - It might take longer, man. I mean, we wouldn't have had the birds to look at, to learn how they fly, how they use thermals, how all of those types of things. - I don't think the people at Boeing, who put the planes together, studied sparrows for too long. I think they came up with their own design and the roles of science. - No, but the right, but look at it, the Wright brothers, where they finally, you know, achieved flights, they must have looked at birds. Anyone that wanted to achieve flight in the early days would have studied how birds fly. So by the time Boeing came along, that bit was done. They wouldn't need to do that. - How many jumbo jets do you see in the sky flapping, Cliff? - No, no, but early, if you look at some of the early ideas for flying machines, they did have some that sort of flaps, didn't they? So I mean, what I'm saying is that work was done. That work was all done by the early pioneers, but they would have had to have studied how birds fly to have an idea of how to fly, wouldn't they, surely? - Thanks to you, thanks to you for the rest of the day. I'm going to have the song, those magnificent men in their flying machines, circling my head. - They go up, did they up up, they go down to the air down. Here's another weird thing. Psychologically, people are more likely to return a wallet they find if there's a picture of a child in it. - I saw, I saw this exact experiment was done the other day. I saw it, it was a clip from QI, I saw this on. - Okay. - Yeah, if you have a picture of a child, if you have a picture of a loved one or parents, the child was the golden ticket. That was like 88% of returned wallets are wallets with a child in them, or a picture of a child in the wallet. And if you just found a wallet with no picture, the odds of it being returned are so slim. - Wow, some of the key is even if you haven't got children, just make sure, just cut one out of a magazine, just have a picture of a child and you want it, you get it back. - Yes. - I mean, it'd be interesting to know in that study you saw whether it was returned with everything's did in it, or whether the wallet is returned, but cash had gone. I wonder whether that would have an impact. - I don't think they went into that level of detail. Although I would say if you are going to do it, probably best to explain this exact conversation to your loved one first, especially if you're childless. Because if they suddenly discover that you have a picture of a random baby, or a child that isn't yours, it could lead to some awkward explaining. So if you're going to do it, fine, but tell them all this first, and then put the picture in so they are away. - Okay. The average adult mind wonders about 30% of the time. - Is that all? - Yeah, that sounds a bit low to me, because my mind will wander far more than that. - Yeah, I mean, I think I daydream on my minds on something else most of the time. I mean, if the whole bird thing, just in that I was just out in the garden, I wasn't necessarily looking at the birds, even though I was just out there, and there were birds around, so I noticed them, and then my mind wandered into the whole thing about human flight. - Yeah. - And that happens to me a lot. - Yeah. Okay. This is why I have a job, because I have to keep focused on something that actually matters. - I'm going to give you two more. Smarter people tend to keep less friends than the average person, as the smarter you are, apparently the more selective you become. - I like this, because I have a very select handful of friends. - I have, I'm one of those people that I used to have lots of people that I called friends, and then as you get older, they tend to start dropping off, you know, because they were people you worked with, and you had that thing where you'd stay in touch for a while, but there's always that core group of people that stay in your group of friends, and as you get older, I think they certainly, the group certainly becomes less, but just because, I don't know, other things get in the way, you know, you just don't stay in touch, and then you lose touch, and then there's that awkward thing. Now, I've tried to rekindle friendships. There's been about three or four friendships over the last few years that I've tried to rekindle. None of them have worked, and that's a weird thing. Like, some, a couple of them people I've not spoken to for years and years, and you think, "Oh, this is really nice, we're going to catch up again." And then it just never has quite the same feel. And then it dies off again, that you might talk to each other a couple of times, and then it's gone again, and that's a weird thing. It's like rekindling friendships doesn't always work. - No, you see, I suppose it depends on the value or the badge that you in your own mind put on what is a friend. Because I've got lots of acquaintances, I've got lots of people I know who are perfectly lovely, who I like a lot, but I regard as a friend as someone who would have your back in a pinch, like, "I need to bury a body, come help." And I reckon about two and a half. (laughing) And the guy who's the half is only a half because he's moved away, so I don't speak to him as much anymore, but I've got two and a half. And you're one of them, by the way. - Wow, which is scary, because if you phoned me up and said, "I've got a body to get rid of," like, "You're my mate, but I'm not sure "that I'm gonna bury a body with you." - No, but I see I know you'd react that way, so I know you'd still turn up, but to you, I'd say, "Trev, I need you to have me move a carpet." - Oh, right. - Thinking he's not gonna... - It's gonna be, it's gonna be quite heavy carpet. (laughing) - Wow, that shows that you're a... I mean, that's manipulation in play there. I've learned, psychologically, I've learned to be about you now. - There you go. - There's a manipulator in you. (laughing) So I find a one spending time at home, alone, and isolated, a long period of time. It's just as bad for your health and wellness as smoking a pack and a half a cigarette a day. (laughing) I've phoned. (laughing) (upbeat music) - I mean, you know, there are people throughout history who have had ideas come to them in a dream that have changed their lives. For example, the song "Yesterday" came to Paul McCartney in a dream. - I didn't know that. - Yeah. - This is so unfair, because when I have dreams, I sometimes wake up and think, "Oh my God, this is a game changer of this." And then when I sort of think about it, 10 minutes later, I think, what gibberish nonsense? Why did I wake up with such confidence about this? But Paul McCartney gets to wake up with yesterday. - Yeah. - That's not fair. - Take it a bit further than that. The theory of relativity came to Albert Einstein in a dream. - No, really? - Apparently so, yeah. - That makes me trust relativity a little bit less if I'm being honest. (laughing) - I don't think you can argue with it. (laughing) I mean, I think this would be one of the dullest dreams, but apparently the periodic table came to a bad in a dream. I mean, imagine that as a-- - Christ. - How dull would that dream be? - It's funny parties. - But anyway, what I'm saying is that people have had things come to me in a dream, and I had a dream last night, so I think it could be the key to my success and fortune, and I am willing to cut you in on this. - Okay, I'm listening. - Because it was unfinished in the dream, so I think I would need your help to finish the idea, and then we can go and set it to the powers that be. It's a new sport. - Ooh. - So I had this dream that it was like a massive thing. It was like the world championships, and it was based sort of on snooker. So you had-- - Simple. (laughing) - You had one snooker table that was pretty standard, but I mean, if you're looking at the snooker table from sort of the bottom, where you put the reds, the top left-hand corner was open and led to another green-based table. Right? - Okay. - But that table curved upwards. - Upwards. - Upwards. And the balls were different sizes. You had your normal sort of snooker-sized balls, but then you had bigger balls. I would say bowling ball size balls were the other size on the table. The goal was to somehow get the balls all up to the top of the curved table. Now, what I couldn't see was whether there were sort of holes at the top of the curved table. I'm assuming there would be. - Well, then I'll roll back down. - Well, this is the idea of the sport. You've got to find enough power to get the balls up the curve and into the holes at the top of the table. - Hang on a minute. This is Physics 101. You're asking me to get a bowling ball uphill with a snooker cue. - Well, are you mad? - I don't know whether you use a cue on the second table. I did these are things I didn't see. So this is what we need to discuss. We need to work out how you play the game. But I think this was a great game. Basically, if all the balls rolled back down the curve table and rolled off the table, you were out. That was essentially what I saw in the game. Then a weird thing happened in the dream. I don't think it has to take place. But at the end of, let's call it a frame when all the balls had fallen off the bottom of the table. The tables parties and escalators appeared and fans could move up and down the escalators in between the two tables. So that was just more for the staging of the event rather than the sporting. - To be honest, mate, I'm more interested on the game rather than how the audience view it at this point, because there's a lot of problems with the game we need to deal with first. - Well, so first of all, I mean, it sounds like a cracking game, doesn't it? If you've got to get balls from one table, one normal standard sort of table, you've got to get them across to the second table, but then you've got to get them up the sort of curved ramp on the second table, presumably to holes at the top. How are we going to do that? Is it going to be a cue-based sport? I didn't see necessarily cues being held. So maybe it's not a cue-based sport. - It sounds like some sort of bastardized hybrid of snooker, bowls and crazy golf. - Yes, or pinball. It's almost like a pinball machine the second one. You've got to get the balls up the top. - But if you did have to have a cue, you'd obviously have to have a larger cue for the second table to give you more power if you've got to get the larger balls up the table. - Do you know how hard you'd have to hit a bowling ball with a cue to get it going uphill? - Well, it may not be as heavy as a bowling ball. I didn't get a sense of weight of the ball. I'm just the size wise. It was the same diameter of a bowling ball. But they might not have been made sort of like from a ping-pong ball material. It might be quite light. So you may not actually need to get the weight of a bowling ball up the curve, in which case surely you could do that with a cue and a cue ball, but you just can't get the power to get it up to the top of the curve. And maybe over the top of the curve, maybe there's a net on the back. Haven't quite worked that bad out 'cause I didn't see. - So I'm sorry, I'm just failing to realise what the point of the first table is. - You've got to get the balls from the first table onto the second table where they'll inevitably roll straight back onto the first table because it's uphill. - But that's part of the skin of the game. - No, you can't. There is no skill that defies physics. You can't get the balls onto the second table. - But the second table, the bottom bit is flat. It just, it rises in a curve. - So you can get it across to the second table. I saw this bit vividly. You can get it across to the bottom of the next table. But then, you know, 'cause the tables aren't sort of side by side, they're kind of staggered. So the first table, you've got a little gap at the top of the first table, which needs onto the bottom of the second table and the second table curves upwards. I mean, you're not really-- - Such nonsense. - You're not buying into, this could make our fortune this go up. It's like you bury her and it'd be way too dear about this. - I just feel like the point of the first table is a little redundant because it seems like all the interesting action is taking part on the second table, the uphill bottom ball. It's a trouble phase. - But maybe, I mean, again, I don't know the rules. This is what we're having the discussion about to set the rules. Maybe on the first table, maybe that's a more traditional snooker based game. You've got the larger balls on the table, but let's say you've got a pot, a number of reds before you can move onto the second table with the larger balls. - I'm not sure that this is gonna, I mean, you never know, stranger things have happened. We had break dancing at the Olympics. We had people getting all excited about curling. So maybe there are some dumb games that might get through. I'm just not understanding how this one works. So presumably the pockets at the top of the second angled table have to be snooker, sorry, not snooker, bowling ball sized holes. So you can pot the bowling balls, right? - Yeah, or as I say, maybe there's a, you have to get it up the curve and over the top of the table, maybe there's a net on the back of the curve. - There's a net now. - Well, I'm just saying, I didn't see that bit. This is the point of this conversation. - Why is there a net? - Well, because if you've got to get the balls, maybe there's not holes in the curved table. There's not pockets as such, but you've got to propel the balls with enough power to get up the curve over the top of the table. Maybe there's a net on the back of the table to collect the balls. - So you've introduced, as if it wasn't complicated enough, you've introduced some sort of football aspect into it now with a goal with a net. - Oh, maybe it is holes in the table. This is, I mean, I don't think I understand in the research and development phase of the project here. - I've got no part of this project. - I woke up incredibly excited about this idea. I woke up and I thought that this is an amazing sport 'cause it felt an exciting sport to watch. The crowds were huge, by the way. When the escalators appeared, they were rammed. At which point I woke up. So it was an incredibly popular sport. It was obviously being televised. So there's something in there and I just, you know, I thought with your snooker, love of snooker, this would really grab you by the balls. - Balls. - Yes. - Yes. - My love of snooker is because snooker makes sense and it isn't someone's insane fever dream. Can we hit the bigger balls with a mallet so that we can throw in croquet so we can have now six games in one? - Well, maybe a mallet is an option. I'm not rolling that out. Maybe let's put that in as an option. So the first table involves snooker cues. You still want to try and move the larger balls onto the second table via the, you know, 'cause if they're not that heavy, you could do that with the normal snooker balls. You've got to knock the larger balls onto the second table, but in the meantime, you're still going to put a number of reds on the first table. Once you've putted those, you can then get onto the second table. Maybe that's where you get a mallet and then you have to hit the, that's still kind of a sort of cue ball. You're still going to have a cue ball, but you can hit that with a mallet to then launch the larger balls towards the top of the table where there's either pockets or a net. I mean, it's all shit. It's taking shape though, in my own mind here. I feel like the first table with the regular size balls and the sort of snooker arrangement is where you score the small little points to, you know, build up a bit of a score, but on the second table, when the mallet comes out and the bowling balls come out, if you start netting them or pocketing them uphill, that's where the big boy points are scores. - But yes, see now you're getting it. Now you're getting into it. - However, you can't overlook the smaller table because that extra point or two could be what tips you over the edge, even if you lose at the end. Yeah, I'm warming up to it. It sounds bizarre, but I'm still not quite sure how we're scoring on the second table. Is it a net or is it a pocket? - Well, I mean, I'm just trying to think how you would do, you'd either need holes at the top of the curvature that the balls would drop into or you'd need to get them over the top of the table that they would just fall into a net. So either way, if you want to do the holes in the table that are essentially larger pockets, but across the top of the table, they're not in the corners, you've got across the top, but different sizes for the different size balls, 'cause you've got, there's various sizes of ball. So you've got to, you know, obviously you've got to get the larger ones to the larger pockets, and then there's a bigger scores. So if you get the biggest ball through the biggest, yeah, and that's gonna be the hardest. - I like this. - It will be the heaviest. We will make that heavier ball. - Let's do that, let's make that, let's make one slightly bigger ball than all the rest, which is the golden ball. - Golden ball. - And there is, yeah. And there is only one hole that it can possibly go through, but it will only just fit through it. So the shot needs to be absolutely perfect. And if you get the golden ball in, regardless of the score, you win. It's like a snitch in Quidditch. - Okay. (laughing) - If you, 'cause it's such an impossibly hard trick to get the golden ball through a slot, which will only just accept it in the most perfect circumstances, if you get the golden ball in instant win. - I don't like the idea of the instant win. - But, all right. - I fuck you. (laughing) - I know, I like the idea that it's worth a lot of points, but I don't like the idea of the instant win, because I think that sort of negates a lot of the other skills needed. - That happens in other sports. - If you bought someone-- - Yeah, sports, I don't like. - If you box someone perfectly for nine rounds, you're 11 rounds, and then with just one punch, they knock you out, then all your perfect boxing means shit, does it? - Yeah, that's why they like boxing. (laughing) I don't like that idea. But I like the idea of the golden ball, and like that, but it's, let's say, I mean, let's say that's worth a thousand points. - How many points can be scored in this game? So you're suggesting someone could pop the golden ball worth a thousand points, but that's still somehow beatable by their opponent? - Yeah, well, you could put other values on all the other-- - How many balls are on this table? - Well, there's quite a lot, yeah, quite a lot of balls on the table of different sizes, different sizes, different points, yeah, you could have the 300 point ball, the 500 point ball, you could be, you know, 'cause I don't know how big the table is, are they? We can make the table as big as we need it to be to accommodate all the balls. - I think you need to go back to sleep and have a rethink about this. (laughing) Oh, wow. (upbeat music) Where we are, that's it for another Trevor Ben podcast, before we go, as always, a couple of recommendations for you. This week, Ben, I finally got round to watching the final season of the Umbrella Academy. - Oh, right, okay. - I was a little bit concerned about it because I happened to see a headline. I didn't go any further 'cause I didn't want any spoilers, but I happened to see a headline about there being a backlash about the finale. And I thought, "Oh, is this gonna be like Ben's Dexter moment?" Well, I've enjoyed every season so far. If you don't know what the Umbrella Academy is, it's sort of a comedic superhero type thing. - Okay. - So I was really concerned about the final series, but I have to say, I thought the ending was really good. So I haven't read any of the people's comments on why they were upset by the ending, 'cause I felt it was a perfect ending. So if you've never seen the Umbrella Academy, I recommend it. It's total fantasy, but it's very funny, and I really enjoyed it. So I'm really pleased to have got that under my belt now, so I don't have to worry about seeing spoilers. The other thing I watched this week was a really good film from last year, so it's a fairly new film. It's on Sky Cinema at the moment called Up Raw. It's a New Zealand-made film, and it relates to the story of, you see, he's a 17-year-old who's sort of trying to find his own voice, and he's drawn into some political activism. It's kind of set in the '80s, I think, in New Zealand. Really good film, a bit different. I like films a little bit different, and I just thought it's a lovely way to spend an hour and a half. - Okay. - And finally, I do have something for cautionary corner this week. - Oh, we're back in cautionary corner. There's quite an old film, I think it's from 2009, and I'd never seen this film, but you know, a couple of weeks ago, if you remember, I went to the Radio Caroline boat. - Yes, I do. - And while we were on there, the guy showing us around mentioned the film, The Boat That Rocked, which was the film from us, I think, 2009, Richard Curtis film about life on a pirate radio ship. And the guy said they basically borrowed a lot of the equipment for the making of the film. Now the guy said, you know, it wasn't that true to life. What he didn't say was this fucking terrible film. It's one of the worst films we've ever seen. And I thought this is Richard Curtis, a normally Richard Curtis, where every does is amazing. I don't, surely, somebody at some point, well, you know, it's a long time ago now, but why didn't anyone say to Richard, this is shit. It's got a really a cast in it. It just doesn't know what it is. It doesn't know what it's trying to be. It's a big carry-on in parts. It's got about three different storylines. It's trying to tell. And I did it was just fucking off. So I know this is a film that's about 15 years old now, but if you come across it, keep clicking to the next thing. Don't go anywhere near it. Absolutely dreadful film. - Here's another little sort of thought for your psychological experiments. Have you noticed how much more passionately you're talking about something that annoyed you and the two things that you actually enjoyed? - Yeah, I know. Well, it made me so angry. 'Cause it was so shit, so shit. Anyway, there we go. That's it. Thank you very much for listening. Don't forget, you can get in touch with us any time, ratcheven, buh licks. And we'll catch you again next week. Till then, stay safe, stay well. Take it easy. - Bye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)