(upbeat music) - Hello folks, welcome back. And if you are new listener, welcome to the show. You're listening to the High Performance Humor podcast and I'm your host, Simon Ward. This week's podcast guest is Gravel Bike Racer, Danish Roseberry, and we'll hear more about her in just a moment. And you might be interested to know how I identify future podcast guests. One of my main considerations is what knowledge or wisdom that they have that I can share with you that will help you to improve your health or performance. So maybe you can help me out here. In the show notes, you can find a link to a poll where I'm asking you to indicate what topics and what type of guests you'd like to hear more of on future episodes. So if you could look out for that once you've finished listening and select all those topics that are of interest to you, I'd really appreciate it. Back to this week's guest. Danish Roseberry is the first guest who is a child of a previous guest. Back at the start of 2019, I chatted with Bernie Roseberry, a former Royal Marine and GB triathlon champion who was dominating the sport when I first started out back in the late 1980s. Dany is Bernie's daughter and she's a talented athlete in her own right. As a youngster, and as you might expect, having such active parents, she did any sporting activity that she could and did pretty well at swimming and running. To the point where she was in the British triathlon, talent ID program, at university, she excelled at rowing and one of the ways she had keeping fit for that sport was to cycle. At university, she actually favored the cycling, got a contract with a pro continental ladies team. Now like many of us in the pandemic, she discovered the joys of riding the trails and then with some encouragement from Bernie got immersed in gravel racing. So in this call, we chat about those athletic influences from mum and dad. We talk about whether she ever thought about going into winter sports and skiing. We chat about the experience of doing the "Oto Low" swim run event with Bernie and then we get onto the subject of gravel racing and how to prepare for it. And Dany's also an ambassador for our favorite nutrition company, precision, fuel and hydration. However, unlike most of the ambassadors, her memories have handy below go back much further than a few years because Dany used to be her babysitter when she was younger. Anyway, enough of that. Let's crack on and hear from Dany. Oh, welcome Dany. It's lovely to have you on the show. - Thank you for having me, good to be here. - And I think this is a first because you are the first sibling of another guest, right? So first child of another guest. So we had your dad on, Bernie Shrewsbury, a couple of years ago. And now here you are, Dany Shrewsbury. So it's great to have you here. - Yeah, it's very cool to be here. Yeah, I listened to that podcast obviously. I think I learn a lot about my dad as well and through that podcast, it's mad. - Well, we had a good old rant about doing stuff the old school where you know, not using gadgets and why can't people just learn to race on feel and all that other stuff. 'Cause that's how your dad learned to do stuff, right? - Oh, yeah, for sure. I think part of my mentality is like that as well. I think to a certain extent, you need to use, you know, the modern tech to monitor that you're not overdoing it these days. But when it comes to racing, I mean, especially power, I barely look at it, to be honest, you're just focusing on the race. - Yeah, 'cause like, if somebody makes a break from the group you're in, you can't really just, well, I'm sorry, but I'm over with a shot now. So I have to let that one go for today. You've either got to go with it and see what happens or lose a definite opportunity. - Yeah, for sure. - Yeah, well, and it's probably rather embarrassing this, but I was trying to remember when I first met your dad. I've got a little training diary that I had and we went on a training camp. I think your mum was there and your grandma in Israel back in 1989. So that'll probably be before you were born. - Yeah, definitely, yeah. - And so was your grandma Rose? Was that right? - Yeah, yeah, Rose, yeah. - Okay, so she does a lot of stuff, yeah. - So Rose used to come for dinner with us most nights in the restaurant after seeing your mum would go and sit by the pool or go swimming or go shopping and then come and have dinner with us. And I've got this little training diary and in the front I wrote something you'd had said then which I've taken through my whole coaching career which is Consistency's the key to success. And that whole principle, it never wavers does it because without consistency, regardless of how much tech you've got, how much talent, you probably aren't going to achieve your ultimate goal. - Yeah, 100% and I think, I mean, I still listen to the wise words from my dad 'cause I think we all get carried away with like focusing on the moment and also focusing on what everyone else wants you to do maybe like sponsors, pressures from them, but then at the end of the day, like you know how you're going to perform best. And if that, like for me, like deciding not to travel somewhere to focus on a more local race is better for me than I've started to do that more. But I think we still constantly are learning and is evolving. And I think that's key to being a professional athlete is like you want to always learn and do better. - Yeah, and you know, you talked about your dad. His dad was in the military, but when I met him, he was basically a full-time athlete and he was British triathlon champion and he would do the winter sports as well, the cross-country skiing. How was it growing up with a dad who was like that? You know, did he drag you out on to do stuff or did you volunteer because you looked up to him? - I feel like I've had this question a lot about, I think the name Shrewsbury, me and my brother, we were always brought up, like especially when we got into a competitive age is like, "Oh, you're Bernie Shrewsbury's daughter, you're Bernie Shrewsbury's son." There was always that pressure, but my parents never pushed me into sport. It was totally like, I mean, we were given the best opportunities for me younger to do whatever sports we want. And me and my brother, literally, I think my parents were exhausted because we wanted to do every sport where it was network, hockey, swimming, running. Especially the swimming at like 4.30 AM starts, they were like, "Are you sure you want to do this?" But yeah, I mean, I was never ever pushed and like, I think there's one period in my life where I stopped sport because I was a bit lost in life. And to be honest, I realized that it's when I, it's because I stopped sport that I was lost. So then when I got back into a routine of it, that's when I found myself a bit again. So, I mean, it was amazing to be brought up around a dad. And like, my mum was an amazing runner as well. And said to be brought up around, that was amazing. And to see how many elite athletes and Olympians respected my dad. And still to this day, you know, I get so many people that messaged me on Instagram, like, "Oh, I've just clicked. You Bernie Shrewsbury's daughter." It is amazing. And yeah, I'm so proud of what they both have achieved really. - And were you never tempted to take up cross-country skiing or anything like that? Or do you prefer the warmer weather stuff? - I know, I love being in the mountains, I'm definitely, yeah, I mean, we used to go ski mountaineering with dad quite a lot when we were younger. My brother got into cross-country skiing. And weirdly, I might go this winter and do a bit as cross training and my altitude things. But I think we were so busy doing all our other sports that I don't think I really had time to fit in the winter sports. But I'm a passionate skier. And yeah, I love being in the mountains, but yeah, not quite an elite cross-country skier like my dad was. - And of course, when you went with your dad, that was because he was in the military and that's what they did in the Marines, right? But now, ski mo's a thing on its own, isn't it? It's actually a recognized sport. - Yeah, yeah. And I think 'cause of my brothers in the military, he did it quite a lot in Norway and things. So I suppose it depends what path you go down. It probably leads you to doing those things. But yeah, the path I went down was not so much the winter sports. - So you talked about swimming when you were growing up. And as I said, your dad was British triathlon champion. So were you drawn to the triathlon world at all? Or was it just purely individual sports and swimming mostly? - I mean, it's quite funny when I think about my cycling now and how it was when I was younger because swimming and running was like my life when I was younger, I did it like every day of my life. And I had such a strong friendship group and both of them that I just loved doing it. I loved racing it, I loved training it. I wouldn't miss a session. And naturally, when you're younger, you get like the talent ID for triathlon and I did those. And I mean, you'll remember Glenn Cook. It was me and Chloe Cook would always be doing the triathlons together. But I really wasn't performed off the cycling. And that was more because I was just so focused on my swimming and running that I just never really focused on the cycling. But my brother was a very good cyclist and he got into like a pro-contantime in France. But even then I was just like, it was always my weakest discipline. And Dan, you need to learn to draft. You're wasting so much energy, but I just save it all for the running. And it was just a sport that I loved triathlon, but I don't know, there's something about it. I just never wanted to fully commit to do it. I still got good results, don't get me wrong, but I think that's 'cause the running saved me in the swimming to be honest. And it wasn't, yeah, I went to, I kind of had a break from it. I think maybe it was the triathlon and the prep, not the pressure, but like, I think it was because of dad's name, we were always like, expected to win. That I kind of went on pause with it all. And I didn't really know what direction I was gonna go in life. And then I went to university and I said to my mum and dad and like, before they were like, "You should just try another sport." And dad had like, introduced me to Robin Chambers, who was a rowing coach at camp at school at the time. And I just, I went to a couple of sessions pre-grant to union, I was like, "Yeah, this is quite cool." But then when I went to university, I was like at the sports fair and 'cause I am tall and got long levers, the rowing coach was like, "Come and try this out." And yeah, quite quickly, I realized I was actually quite good at it and, you know, climbed the ropes there and did pretty well at it quite quick. And it's funny because I was doing like GV trialing and I was like, "Oh, I'm in a sport where like dad didn't do it." But he was still in that world because the rowing team used to do winter training camps and dad used to take them cross-country skiing. And so I remember my first GV trialing and I used to get weighed before we rode and I stood on the scales and they were like, "Oh, Shrewsbury, we recognize this name." Here we go again. But yeah, I mean, rowing was like, honestly, I can say the most incredible period of time of my life because I think it gave me the engine that I have today in cycling. And I genuinely think it's probably one of the hardest sports in terms of the two kilometer test that we have to do. I don't like, you push your body to, I think if you're not fainting, you haven't gone hard enough. I was part of the Brooks rowing program, which I mean, the Olympics this year, most of their boats, the GV boats are from Brooks rowing. So it's an incredible high-performance squad. But yeah, it was to another level, to be honest. But yeah, cycling, that's when cycling featured more in my life. And yeah, I was doing it more as cross-training, but then it was getting competitive in it and realized that rowing and cycling are actually very, like the skills in terms of fitness and all legs, to be honest. Everyone thinks rowing's with your arms and it's definitely not. It's like the last 20% of any stroke doing it properly. Yeah, so I kind of saw the power was transferable and started cycling a lot more when I left university and things and I got competitive in London, like racing the guys around parks and stuff. And I was approached to, yeah, to start racing in the cycling world. So how long did you go with that then? So, well, it's funny, I started, I mean, in the cycling world, but it's not that long, but I started racing on the bike in 2017 and then I had an injury, so I was off the bike for about eight months. And weirdly in that eight months, I started swimming a lot again. And this will make you laugh. I entered a 70.3, just pre-COVID. And I knew I wanted to get back to my cycling, but this injury was like on and off on the bike. So I was doing other sports, just to keep me busy. And I did way more 70.3 and yeah, did pretty well. I think I got second in the age group and then that was actually like fifth out of the pros and qualified for New Zealand. So I was like, oh, maybe I have got the triathlon jeans, but that was just pre-COVID and everything. So when COVID happened, I was being coached by Danny Rowe at the time. She was like, right, what direction did he go in? And I was like, yeah, cycling. I was like, the pool's a shot. I was like, I was just doing that for a bit of fun, but I suppose it was pretty cool to be able to still know that I could dive into that world. - Yeah, I mean, the Talent ID program, way back, you know, you talked about Glenn's program, it was all about swim run. So you had skills in the engine from those. The power and the engine you get from rowing is amazing. I mean, Rebecca Romero is the most famous person I can think of that jumped from rowing over to cycling and achieved a lot, but I think there was a lady in America. I can't remember her name, but maybe she was Canadian, but she was the world short course champion. Probably about the same time as she'd had raced, but she famously couldn't run for several months and rode instead, and it didn't seem to impact her fitness at all in a negative way, not being able to run. - Yeah. - So those are two of my examples that spring to mind. So you've got all, it seems like you've got all of the skills and the power from all of those other sports. And I do think, you know, the more folks I talk to, like I talk to Kyle Smith recently, and Kyle talked about having a quite rounded up bringing riding horses and motocross bikes. And so that development in several different sports seems to make you a much more balanced athlete and probably a bit more resilient to injury. - Yeah, and I think that's what I actually said to my mum the other day, I was like, I am so grateful to you allowing me to figure out what sport I wanted to do and let me do all these sports. Like there's not many people the other day, like my recovery day was diving into a 50 meter Olympic pool and swimming a couple of K, like that's some, to some other people would never be a recovery day. But like, you know, I've done that sport for so many years that I'm able to do that and that is able to be part of my, like the crossfit of my recovery for my cycling programme. And it also, yeah. - Mind you, if you don't do it regularly, 50 meters is still a long way, isn't it? - Yeah, I mean, definitely fatiguing a little bit, but yeah, it's just, it's really cool to be able to do that. Yeah, and I just love being able to incorporate those kind of things into my cycling programme just for a bit of a mental break from staring at your gadgets. - I, we used to have a 50 meter pool permanent in Leeds and then in lockdown, everything changed and they put the booms in and they've got all the school kids sitting down, that's great, but we only really get to swim that occasionally. But I did get to go to a 50 meter open airport with a client the other day, I'd forgotten. I was a bit full of bravado, like, oh, this would be great. You know, 50 meters in that long. - Yeah, it's actually quite a long way when you're not used to it. - Yeah, it is, isn't it, yeah. - So do you, I seem to remember that you and your dad did the swim run event together, was that, did you do the afternoon in Sweden? - Yeah, that was quite funny. That was like, yeah, that was a time where, I suppose it's the first time I saw my dad slightly lost. I think it was, it just turned 60. And it was like, you know, when they start to try and justify their purpose and you're like, you don't need to, like, do you know how much you've done? And I think it was as he was entering, kind of thinking about retiring. And he kind of, I could see that it was a bit lost. And he had like, similar to me with like, one minute love the bike, then it'll go and do something else. So I was like, it'd be really cool. I said to my mum, like, if we entered into a child for a six-year, I mean, I think he hated me after it, but hated me but loved me. But my mum was like, yeah, that's fine. And threw him into a child, but you're doing it with him. So I was like, okay. So yeah, Attilo is a swim-runner event that I suppose in the wild. So it's like a benches swim run. So you'll be like, we are on an island off of Sweden, Korduto. And you basically swim, cross the lakes, get to another island, run across it. And I think it was 45k work. - That's a lot of running. There's a lot of running in a swim, isn't there? Yeah. - Yeah. And you have to be tied to a partner the whole time. I probably underestimated how much Dad hadn't run. So it was quite funny. I'd been doing a lot of running. So he, I was definitely towing him a little bit on the run. He'll allow me to say that. - But there's one bit in there. I mean, you can, I did Attilo about 10 or 12 years ago when you could still enter. So I'd be interested to know how you managed to get a spot just by entering 'cause you have to qualify now, don't you? - Oh, yeah. Yeah, for the, yeah, I mean, I think I did it a kind of room, it must've been four years ago. - Yeah. - They've got so many different events now. So you've got the World Champs. But yeah, there's like the World Champs, which I think it might be 70k, but they're both on Uto. And then we did the World Series one, which was-- - Okay. Yeah. When we did it, there's, a lot of the runs are very short, aren't they? And they're rocky. So you're not really running, you're scrambling half the time. - Yeah. - And finding your way down this single track. - That's what Dad was very good at. Through the woods, you know, and then slithering down into the water and then getting out on some rocks and clambering in. There's one bit where you have to come down a bank that's about 20 meters from the top. And you're basically sliding down on your bum feet first and hoping you're gonna stop before the end. - It was actually quite funny 'cause literally on that bit, I kind of slipped and ended up pulling Dad a town with me, it was quite funny. - Yeah, but there's one bit, I think, in one of the islands where you have to run the full length and that's about 20k. And so you can wing it, I reckon you can wing it for most of the others 'cause they're not very long runs, but that one really sorts out the runners from the people in the training. - Yeah, I love the whole swim run concepts, great. - Yeah, very good. - But not much fun if you're a gravel rider these days. - Yeah, I mean, to be fair, I used to work for Beevo barefoot and we were a main sponsor. So I actually did the cans of Tilo a year and a half ago. Off of no training and it was still right. - Yeah, but maybe not so much for your dad, right? - No, I do not. - Let's talk about the gravel biking then. So it's like a lot of people, it sounds like you got into that a lot more and really started to love it in lockdown when that was probably the only thing you could do. And about that was about the same time that gravel racing was sort of becoming a thing, wasn't it? There was some big, you talked about racing in America. There was some big events there. There was the Leadville and there was the, it used to be called the Dirty Council were quite big events, but outside of those communities, nobody had really heard of them, aren't they? - Yeah, that's what's crazy when you look at today and how much the calendars have evolved. But yeah, I mean, for me, I was on a pro-quantie road team and then yeah, COVID was my, I get in dad introduced me to gravel riding 'cause he, to be honest, he was just fed up with the aggressive drivers on the road in the UK. - Well, we don't need to talk about, he does run him with some aggressive drivers too, that's the whole other story. - We all had our appearances with some people just hate bikes and they should really read the highway code and then they'll actually understand why we read the ride to abreast, but I think I'm over those arguments, to be honest. But yeah, dad, like he had a gravel bike and then he was going to sell one and get a new one, but I was like, keep one so then I can have a go. So yeah, then just during COVID, we'll head to the new forest, which was near them and we'll be doing rides. And I just kind of fell in love with being in nature, being in the woods, not being fearful of like, cars around and just, yeah, having fun. And then I started looking into races and there's one that was here in Jerome, actually where I live now called Rank. So it's like two hours north of it and it was part of a UCI series and it was like the first round of UCI that introducing gravel. So I rocked up and it was like 100 miles of some of the hardest terrain and gravel racing like around and there was another pro-pontagull there and we just had like a wicked day together in the break and I came away with second and then the British scene decided to run a nationals that year, but it was a bit because it's like a test a year. We were kind of all in with the men and it was all a bit, probably not best organized 'cause they didn't really know how to do it. - Was that the one in Norfolk? - Yeah, that was a fact. - Was it, I think, did Alistair Brownlee do that one? - Yeah, yeah, I think he won that year but we were racing with them. So it was a bit chaos, like us women couldn't retell what we are. I think I finished third that year and then I was like, this is really cool, this kind of scene. So, but I was still very much doing state, I was loved, I loved state racing and still very passionate about being on the road. So I was still doing that and then we just dive into the odd gravel race and it was after I became national champ in the gravel scene that I kind of was like, oh, maybe I should look into more of these kind of races because the UK scene in road racing is great, but like I wanted to mix it up a little bit. And that's when I applied to the Lifetime series, which is a big off road series and mistakes and that's where events like Unbound with things happen. And then it was that, yeah, last year that I took part in that series and I got fourth at Unbound which is one of the biggest gravel races. I probably most iconic gravel race there is out there at the moment. - And it changes from year to year, doesn't it out unbound? 'Cause I remember reading this year they made it much more gnarly in terms of the intersections. - Well, this, you know, it's funny. They have a funny way of describing it in the US sometimes. They have the north course and the south course, but for example, this year was three hours quicker than the previous years because of the less mud. So in the year before we had the single peanut butter mud which basically meant we were running for five miles because you couldn't cycle through the mud. Whereas this year, yeah, they were like chunkier sections but yeah, it was a thing. - Well, what I found about certainly doing triathlons in the US is they'll talk about a hill and you'll talk to athletes or the organizers and say, "Oh, there's a massive hill in there." And it'll be a 10% grade on a big wide road and smooth tarmac. And then I think you should come to Yorkshire or go to Dartmoor or something and that's where you find out what real hills are like. You've got pot holes and 20% gradients and you know, we've got some routes that we do in Yorkshire that are on gravel riding trails but really you should be doing them on a full-sust mountain bike. - Oh God yeah. - And I think how would those be described? 'Cause that's what we'd say, actually this is quite normal but out there and like in quite a lot of Europe that you're really riding fire trails, aren't you? - Yeah, I think that's what's kind of been funny for us Europeans going over to America when they say, "Oh, it's really chunky, it's really chunky." But like here in Jaroni, like most of the trails you could probably say would be on, like I did a route yesterday that was so bumpy that probably having full-susts is better but like the boundaries of like gravel and mountain bike trails are getting very close now. But yeah, I mean, yeah. Unbound has chunky sections but, and I did a recent race called Oregon Trail in Oregon. And I would say yeah, that was definitely more mountain biking and chunky, but yeah, those versus unbound, like you have sections which probably are pretty chunky rock but it's more like, I think everyone gets fearful of punches for unbound 'cause it's 200 miles long. So yeah, it's just, and it's flint, so it's quite sharp. - Yeah, yeah. - Yes, it's cool. (bell dings) - To show you listening to right now and all of my others that provide you with amazing real-life advice and guidance from top coaches, athletes and successful humans, well, making it takes me a lot of time but I feel it's well worth it. And all in the name of helping you to improve your health, longevity and performance. And all I ask in return is this. Please send a link to this podcast to somebody you know who you think will benefit. And if you haven't done so already, please click follow this podcast on whatever platform you're listening to right now so that you don't miss any of our future episodes. - Thank you. Let's get back to the show. (bell dings) But that's, if you ride in Dorset, that's what you get a lot of, isn't it, flint? - Yeah, I mean, oh God, like, we say gravel in the UK but yeah, I mean, I did this night ride, it's called The Rat Run, and it was just all on, like not long ago 'cause I'm prepping for a big ultra race soon. And it was on bridal part us and stinging their tools and yeah, it was something else. I wouldn't really call it a gravel route. And so many people messaged me like, "Do you recommend this route?" And I was like, "No, I see no." (laughs) - My father's got a house down in Dorset near Dorchester. And so when we go down there, I map out on ride with GPS and routes. And they look like, they look like bridle paths. And you think, well, these look good. And then you're turning down them. And like you say, it is a track once but nobody's used it for a few months and it's just completely overgrown with brambles and nettles or as is what happens, some of these tracks become streams. So the water runs down the middle and you end up with a V-shape for a full of gravel. Or you end up on a bridle path that's actually a field and it's about 10% and you just can't cycle up it. So you're doing a hike with your bike on your shoulder. - Exactly that. And I was prepping for an ultra race. So I did it a night time. So imagine all that being the pitch black and there was this one section I turned down and it was just pure stinging nettles. And I was like, this has to be a joke. And then I looked at the strivers segment and it's actually called Steenet or Alley. And I was like, this is not a road. - So I know you used to race on the road and you talked then about aggressive drivers. How do you, does your gravel ride training differ from road ride training? Or do you still spend a lot of time doing your conditioning on the road? - Oh yeah, I mean, to be honest, most interval training will be on the road. I'll probably grab a ride once or twice a week. Mainly doing endurance or like more social rides. But fortunately, like now living in Gerona, there is amazing, there's this famous hill called Santa Hillary that you can do on the road or off road. And off road is still smooth enough to do intervals. So if I wanna, and then it's got a gnarly descent. So it's quite good for practicing your skills but being able to do your intervals still. So I'd say yeah, predominantly I still train on like doing intervals on the road but it's good to try and keep it up for your skills. - When you're doing your intervals on the road, what sort of intervals are you doing? 'Cause it's different on gravel, isn't it? Because when you're riding up hill and you come to a bit of a bump or a stop or you don't get a constant application of power, you sometimes have to put in a little bit more power when you're at threshold already. - Yeah, okay. - Which completely upsets your rhythm. So how do you train for that? - Yeah, I mean, I work with Phil Dignon many people probably know him. Lizzy Dignon's husband, former Skyrider. And yeah, I mean, he's been good friends with Tiff Cromwell who is amazing on the gravel scene and he knows what she does. So he's applied, like he knows what I need to do and we work out when I've got ultra things or be endurance stuff. But I think so many people focus on, oh, these events are so long. I have to do a 30 hour week. I have to do when actually that's, you're just going to burn out and you're never going to improve. Like it's still important to have those like 30s in there and your intensity stuff. So, because to be honest at the start of a gravel race it's full gas. Like whether it's a 200 mile, I mean, okay, unbound was a bit different because we set off all together. But as soon as it got to a critical right hand turn up a steep hill, that's when the race lit. And you need to be able to still train your body to get into those threshold zones versus just staying like consistent pace all the time. So yeah, I still very much have structured training. - So would you do something like a threshold interval than going into a sustained effort zone two or three then as a way of teaching your body to deal with clearing the lactic acid while you're still riding quite hard? - Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I still, yeah, I have a lot of sprints and my session, the 30 30s is like an iconic session which kind of like 30 on 30 off, but then sometimes I'll do 30 on 30, not quite off. So into zone three and like into six minute blocks. I do a lot of sustained anaerobic power stuff. So like keeping on the pedals, but yeah, not like, I mean, it's the classic tary begacha training. He does so much of his in zone two, which is also so crucial. I think riding with a lot of people to this day, a lot of people struggle, especially in groups to ride easy. Like when I'm riding easy, I wanna ride easy because I know that when I've got my intervals, I need to ride hard. Whereas people seem to think that going out and smashing yourself every ride is gonna improve and it's not, it's certainly gonna deplete you. I've definitely been guilty of getting carried away and thinking that, oh, like to be honest, my coach told me off recently, he's like, you're adding half an hour onto every session, which one session fine, but five sessions, all of a sudden, you know. - That's extra right, isn't it? - Yeah, yeah. - Here's a question for you, Danny. Do you train with the guys a lot or do you tend to go out with just female groups? - I train with guys a lot. Yeah, my partners like this. So we ride together quite a lot. Yeah, I think that definitely has helped me. But yeah, I mean, here in Chirona, like I've moved to, well, the start of the year, but we've been away racing, but there's a good group of us girls here as well now. Like, gee, she races for SD Works and I'm all gonna, like, they're my main competitors and they live on my doorstep. So it's actually really good that, you know, we went out the other day on a 24-key climb and yeah, the boys went off, but then we were like, actually, why don't we all push each other a little bit? So it's a good balance now. Whereas, yeah, I've been in situations before, like, especially with my working, when I was working full-time last year, I was just going out on my own because I just had to do it before work. But in London, there's an amazing community called Lacole Race Team who, like, they call it Wednesday Worlds. I mean, that's known across the world. I think everyone does a Wednesday Worlds somewhere. And it would be a 4 a.m. smash out before work, which was crazy, but they do it every week. And yeah, it's an incredible community. And I mean, they definitely helped improve my fitness when I was there. - I know, I don't know if you know, Kerry McGorley, she's done a lot of research on the cross-country skiers in Sweden. And one of the things that she found was that when the female cross-country skiers were working out with the men, they tended to work a bit harder to keep up. So the guys would be going in zone two, but the girls would be in zone three. So the coaches were thinking, "Oh, well, they may be working a bit too hard." Actually, what they did find was when they got to the Winter Olympics, the female cross-country ski team did better than the men. So maybe there was something about the way they were training, but it just seemed from her research that when females train with males, often they end up working a bit harder than perhaps the coach wants them to. - Yeah, I think I just bet I just suppose it depends which egos you're with. And if the men you're with want to try and prove a point over if they're sensible. But like, I mean, I've got a good group of guys and girls that I ride with that we kind of, there's your personal one and half will you and stuff. And like, I think we choose it when it's right. Like if we're like, do you want a bit of a smash-up, then we'll kind of push on a bit or like we'll do a pace line, chain gang. - But yeah, I mean, yeah, I try to keep it sensible and not get too carried away. But like I said, especially being in Jorona, like if you've got three hours, but everyone else is doing five, it's quite easy to be like, all right. Yeah, I'll come and do five. - So essentially then, for anybody who's thinking about, you know, switching from triathlon or racing on the road on a bike to gravel racing, the training isn't really that much different. There's a little bit of, there's probably at least one rider week where you're just getting familiar when you've been on the gravel and handling your bike and descending and climbing on rough terrain. But the types of intervals that you're doing and the types of riding you're doing are very, very similar. Am I sort of interpreting that correctly? - Yeah, I think like at the moment I, so I've got a UCI race coming up, which in the gravel terms is quite short, I suppose. So we've been doing a bit of short or sharper things lately. But yeah, otherwise it's just like, yeah, pretty similar to, to be honest, to what probably most cyclists do. It's probably just those one or two sessions which are a bit more like sustained aerobic power and yeah, endurance on the gravel because when you ride on the gravel, you're like you said earlier, you're naturally doing accelerations, you wouldn't do on the road. So like I did a route on Sunday and one hill was like, I think it had a 13% bit which would be hard on the road. But then you add in rocks and boulders and like lips that you need to pop your front wheel out over. All of a sudden you're whacking out 300 plus watts to get over that little rip. Like, and they're the little gains that you probably would get from that endurance gravel session versus being on the road. - Yes, and of course, you don't get the luxury of being able to stand up to accelerate up a 13% incline as much on the gravel, do you? - Yeah, please lift a little bit. - Let's talk about outside of gravel racing. You talked about last year how you were working. I guess not having to work this year and concentrating on your cycling means you can focus a little bit more on recovery would I be right there or did you just try and fill that with more training? Like most people don't know. - Yeah, I don't know at all. Like, yeah, I think what was hard for me is I stopped working January but I kind of missed that winter period where I probably wanted to be full time. So I think that's definitely something going to this year that would already, I know already help, hopefully. I think, I mean, my mum's like, you've seen busier than ever since I've quit my job, but which is so true. But yeah, I've just been traveling quite a lot on racing and I've probably flogged myself a bit too much with the traveling. And like I said, the calendars are so big across the US and Europe now. I kind of, it's hard to try and get the balance, right? I was meant to be at level this week but I had like a, I did an amazing stage race in America then I stayed out altitude to climatize the next race and then it was canceled. And then I came home, had so much trouble with delayed canceled flights coming home. My body was just exhausted and mentally I wasn't in the best place to go back and because I just want, I knew I wanted to train because traveling is exhausting. You find yourself having to do so many easy rides after traveling that your body recovering and then you just kind of find your fitness dropping. Whereas I thought for me to, rather than fading out the back half of the season, I really wanted to focus on a training block and be at home. And yeah, I've got a UCI race in Sweden and then I've got some pretty big goals going to the back half of the season that I want to be fired for versus exhausted and not wanting to do it. - Are you, when it comes to recovery, are you big on sleep, meditation? Do you do any breathing practice at all? - Do you know what, coming from Vivo Bertha, I mean, it's a company, it's all about well-being and all of that. I've definitely got better at sleep but as well as my dad's sporting that I might have inherited, I think I've also inherited his functioning on little sleep. I think it's just 'cause since we were a kid, we used to swim at 5 a.m., I'm such an early bird and to be honest, it's so hot and spay at the moment. Like if you don't get back by 10 after your session, you're pretty screwed in the heat. But I mean, I definitely focus on now is training and resting. It's only now since I've slowed down a little bit 'cause I was like moving and traveling and training, I was kind of a bit everywhere, whereas now I'm, yeah, I'm definitely procely and I'm getting better at it. But yeah, I think it's just from my previous hectic regimes that it's been hard adapting to it. - What about nutrition? Do you follow anything specific there? Are you plant-based, vegan, keto? - Yeah, so well, I'm vegetarian, well, pescatarian. I don't really eat much fish. I eat like one or two types of fish, but that's just my choice. My family all eat meat. It's more that I used to struggle, I used to call it meat hangovers. I used to always be picky with my meat and just leave it. And then mum was like, why just keep eating it if you're just leaving it? And then I was iron deficient. So I, yeah, I've had to be working a lot harder, being a vegetarian, trying to make sure that I still get the necessary nutrients on board. And I've recently, only literally this week actually, well, we hear a guy called the Performance Chef, you might have heard of him. - Oh, well, I've heard of him. Yeah. - Yeah. He's based here in Jorona and he's been giving me some advice and helping me out, giving me some cool recipes. So that's really good because yeah, I think it's, you know, there's so many myths around like, I think sports changing, which is for the better, like there used to be a lot of eating disorders in cycling. And I think it's so good to see that, I mean, the guy from UNOX, for example, in the Tour de France this year, who had put on like 12 kilos, but he was like, I'm stronger, I'm fitter. And I think it's so great seeing things like that because I think, yeah, like people used to say about going out and you're going training in the morning without eating, like if you wanted to lose weight. And actually for a female, that's so dangerous. Like you should rather do that. Our bodies are very different to males. And it's really important that we're taking enough protein on board, like yes, you can adapt it, like have less carbs on a certain day, but like even just being with Alan, like speaking with Alan this last couple of weeks, like everyone thinks because you've got a rest day you shouldn't eat any carbs and naturally that's so wrong because you need to be looking at the next two days. So like I said, I'm still learning everything like every day and I know that I've got things wrong going into my races this year and yeah, I'm just learning and adapting as I go. - That's good to hear about the fasting and the protein and everything we've had. We've, I've had Pippa Wolf and who runs Red-S project and we've had it, we've had two or three athletes on from there talking about eating disorders, eating, you know, actually suffering from Red-S. I've had Stacey Simms on talking about why females shouldn't fast and so, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of information out there that's pointing people in the right direction. Unfortunately, there's so much noise that's also pointing people in the opposite direction. And we need to, we need to try and keep shouting to make sure we overcome the rubbish, don't we? And then make sure people take the right path. - Yeah, there's so much more. That's, you were, you revolved with precision, fuel and hydration, is that right? I know that you've probably been around Andy Blow for as long as he's been around in the sports world. Are you an ambassador of theirs? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it actually sponsored me. I'm doing a cool documentary with them for my next ultra race actually. But yeah, I mean, I see precision as my family, to be honest, like Andy Blow used to baby, similar as younger, and I mean, yeah, I think Dad helped him get his first job, proper job if you like. So Andy's been a big part of my life growing up. I remember when the brand first started and he gave me samples actually. And like, it's the last, to be honest, I used to, obviously on a pro-concy rail team, you have to kind of use the stuff you're given, but I'd always secretly use precision because they're dialed, they're scientists, they know exactly what they need to do. But yeah, even this year, they helped me with my strategies. They write out to the tea exactly how many grams I need for these crazy long races. And I mean, we have such a good laugh. And yeah, every time I go home, I go to the office. And yeah, they're just amazing people and they've really helped me throughout my career really. And yeah, I'm working really closely with them at the moment for Honor Documentary, which is cool. - Have you worked with, is it Emily or Lexi? - Oh yeah, Emily. I work with Raph, Raphty mainly and Chris. And yeah, but they came on this night adventure with us actually when we did this night ride in prep for Badlands, which is in a few weeks. - I've heard of Badlands, that is bad, isn't it up there? - Yeah, sure is. Yeah, so I'll be taking plenty of their nutrition and salts on board for that event, no doubt. - Just going back to your training for gravel racing, one of the things that I've noticed, if I go out and do a four hour road ride, I come back and my legs feel a bit tired. Four hours on the gravel, my back aches, my shoulders ache, my triceps ache. I've always been into strength training, but since I've upped my strength training and mobility, I feel like I'm much better equipped to be covered from a gravel ride. Do you put a lot of time and effort into mobility and strength work? - Yeah, do you know what? Like I was actually saying today, I need to get back into it. Like it's the guilty thing, I think you do it all through winter. Like I think it's, you don't need to lift. Like everyone says you need to be doing lifting and things you don't. It's like, it's the minor movements and mobility that is so key. Like, okay, yes, you can do some dead lifting and things, but it's more core stability. It's kettlebell work out. Like I'm never going in and trying to do max squats and things like that. Like that's not why I can incorporate, but yeah, it's just more mobility and core work. I still incorporate core into my stretching, but during race season you, 'cause I'm on the move the whole time, it's quite hard to keep it up, but I'm actually in the process of getting my own stuff to my place just, you don't need a lot of equipment and just doing it at home versus signing out to gym memberships and getting ripped off. Yeah, you need a set of elastic bands to take around with you down here. They weigh nothing and they go with you, they pack up nice as well. - Yeah, I have a commute band that I take around with me. - I'm a massive fan of kettlebells. You can do a great old body workout in 15 minutes. You can do some really good stability stuff. And like you say, it's not about gaining muscle. I think, I'm just a bit younger than your dad. So for me, maybe it is about trying to restore a little bit of muscle that I've naturally lose, but I still want to be able to ride my bike uphill and follow my mates and not get dropped. So I don't wanna get huge. But it is about just, I think, bulletproofing your body to think of a different phrase, because six hours on or however many hours it took you to ride unbound, do you certainly feel pretty battered when you get off, don't you? - Yeah, 10 and a half. - 10 and a half, yeah. - Previously it was 13 and carrying a bike that weighed a lot because it had mud stuck to it. So that definitely was the longest day of gym work, I think I've ever done. - Yeah, but just to be able to pick up a bike and carry on your shoulder comfortably for that far requires a certain amount of base strength anyway, doesn't it? - Yeah, Joe, and that's where I always joke, I don't think my swimming shoulders will ever disappear because I do it so much when I was younger, but I'm kind of grateful for them, 'cause I think he's giving me the strength and gravel racing, sure. - Yeah, well, some cyclists don't look like they've got anything to hang a bike on, do they? - Yeah. - So there's always that benefit. So Badlands, is it 720 kilometers or something? - Oh, 795, through the Spanish desert, yes. - I've put altitude a lot of it as well in Sierra Nevada. - I think some parts of it pass through, but yeah, I think the most challenging bit will be the heat to be honest. - I know Alistair did it a few years ago and I think he got half a dozen punctures in half an hour and he was just so frustrated, he was just sat there, tried to mend them all on the road. And I think he said the biggest thing for him was the sleep deprivation. Some people are either good at that or not, aren't they? - Yeah, well, I think going off of the amount of delayed flights and having to stay awake for two days and having my dad's not sleeping jeans, hopefully I'll be all right. - You'll find out fairly soon. Listen, Daddy, it's great. I'd love to catch it with you after the Badlands and find out how you get on that. I know you've got to get off and get your bikes at the shop, so I'm gonna let you go and do that. Thank you so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure to catch it with you and I'll have to get in touch with your dad again to see how he's doing and maybe we'll get you both on for a podcast next time. - Yeah, right, so, sure, sounds good. - Cool, Danny Shoresbury, thank you for joining me all the way from Duran and Reid Spain. - Thank you. - Thanks again to Danny for being my guest on the show this week. It was really interesting to hear how Danny prepares for a gravel racing event and I hope that we can get back in the future to talk about this in more detail. Please check out the show notes for links to all the topics we talked about, especially that poll to help me with choosing future podcasts guests and also you can find in there a link to my free daily mobility plan. To make sure you don't miss any future episodes, please go to iTunes or the platform that you choose to listen on. Search for high performance human and triathlon podcast and then click on the subscribe link. And while you're there, and I know this, I'm asking you to do a few things today, but if you could share this episode with just one person who you think might benefit, that would be awesome. And one final task for you. If you've got a couple more minutes, perhaps you could leave me review on your chosen platform. If you can do all of those things for me, that would be brilliant. So if you can just do one, selecting some choices in the poll, sharing it with a friend or leave me review, then that would be amazing as well. That's all for this week. I'll have another great guest, as always, in seven days time and I hope you'll be able to join me. But for now, enjoy the rest of your week and happy training. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
