Meet Lyda Michopoulou! They are a life/identify transition coach out of GREECE! You can find them with the following links: https://unwrappedevolutions.com/ https://www.instagram.com/unwrappedevolutions/ I'm almost positive I misgendered Lyda in the intro and/or closing as I know that I did in the origianl show notes. That is because I put things off and did the intro and close at 6 am right before posting. I am so sorry to Lyda for my mistake. <3
Emotionally Unavailable
Episode 56: I AM.
[MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to Emotionally Unavailable, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of emotional availability and intimacy. I'm your host, Melissa Hepner. And I can't tell you how excited I am to have you join me on this journey of self-discovery and connection. Whether you're navigating the complexities of relationships or exploring your own emotional landscape, this podcast is here to inspire, empower, and entertain. So get cozy, and let's explore the depths of human emotions together. Hey, guys. Today's episode is with LITA. I'm not going to make any excuses. But I have made a really big mistake and misgendered LITA in the intro, show notes, whatever. So I am trying to swap things out so that I can fix that. And I'm very sorry that I made that mistake. I put everything off because I was really busy and didn't record the intro or close to like 6 a.m. right before I posted. And I was very asleep. So I'm very sorry to LITA and anybody else in the queer community. So here's the episode. Hello, everybody. I'm going to be real. I didn't do all that much editing to this episode because things have been so busy. So we're going to hope for the best for that. This episode is with LITA from Athens, Greece. He's a live transitions coach or identity transition. And he does really good work. So I hope that you like this episode. [MUSIC PLAYING] Hi, thank you. That worked. OK, and how do you pronounce your name? I pronounce it LITA. LITA or LITA? Yes. LITA. OK. And you live in Greece? Yes, in Athens at the moment. Yeah, are you just traveling there? I've been traveling for all my life, to be honest. So my parents are three. But when I was two months old, my father decided to go to Europe to be a teacher at the great school. So we've been moving around Europe. I mean, we came back around when I was 12, for six years, my mother had been up. Traveling with the children on the parking. I finished the high school in Greece, and then I left traveling alone. Yeah, I bet. [LAUGHTER] I think you kind of lived the life of what American military kids go through. Yes, yes, without the military part. Yeah. That's so cool. My children are very Greek. Their Greek history is very prominent in their family, like they've really taken care to-- they got the Ellis Island records of whenever they came over, because they really haven't been here that long, because it was just my ex-husband's great-grandfather is who came over. So just my children's great-great. I mean, they really, the '30s, maybe they came over. I mean, that's really not that long ago, you know? Yeah, so third generation or something. Yeah, and so they really have done a lot to teach the whole family about their Greek history. So we always go to Greek Fest here. It's very traditional. Yeah, we love it, because it's run by the people who started the real Greek community here in Oklahoma. So I mean, Oklahoma, we're not real cultured. I'm not going to lie to you. We're doing better about that. But the Greek community is very strong here. So I think that's so cool. So I'm actually very obsessed. We were just talking about this yesterday about how that's fine. We can go anywhere you want, but I really want to spend a couple of days in Greece so you guys can see kind of where you're from, you know? Hmm. Yeah, it's a really nice place. I looked at some of your stuff, and I wanted to tell you something I really loved. Okay, so you are an identity transition coach, is what you call yourself, yes? Yeah, so life transitions, quotes, and I support people whose identity or life like lifestyle or the relationships. Okay, this post that you had says identity transition isn't about before and after. You decide when is the right time to explore and unearth your truest self-expression. And I was like, man, I already knew we were going to be so aligned because I've really set the intention. Like I'm not chasing, I'm attracting. So, you know, to me, putting on threads like, hey, I need a couple of guests, that's good enough for me. And then whatever I get, I'm just going, I am operating from the assumption that whoever says yes is supposed to, right? So reading that, I've been so, you can't even know for like four days now. And I just have a feeling that I was being prepared for the two people, you and the other person who said yes, because we're all saying the same shit. So I'm really trying so hard to get people to understand you are already, whatever it is you think you want to be, you have all that, you are that. You just have to quit, you know, assuming that a person who does these things is different than you, better than you, smarter than you, working harder than you, you are this. Just, you know, shift your mindset a little bit, embrace more of yourself, quit trying to hate every part of yourself away to become this thing that you're idolizing, you already are. And that was a thing that I like realized for myself, probably back in May, like girl, you already are, you are this, you're just also this, and this part is just as beautiful as this and that whole idea of balancing the masculine and feminine and light and dark, you know? So anyway, it makes me so happy that, you know, I get to talk to another person really in alignment with these values. I am curious how you found yourself doing this work. - Yes, so let me find the point where to start from so it doesn't take us all the hour. I would say that I always knew that I, that there was something different. Me, I mean, I was assigned female at birth and my parents really like loved having anything just blown to me with blue eyes, you know, these things and dressing up and the clothes and the dresses and the skirts and the leggings, you know, the jelly things that the girls do, I shake them, all of them. And I also, I, my most hated holiday, greats all around this carnival, see all Halloween because in grace and let's say the, not the great community, but basically in grace, it was mostly about dressing up like a, I don't know, sex is nurse or a baby. - Yes. - Or something very sexualized or something very girly, which I didn't like. - Here too, here too, yeah. You're like, you wanna be a witch, come on. - Exactly. - Very witch. I wanna be a dark witch. - I loved being dressed as a penguin. So basically animals that we, or we say, full costume that cannot really see who the person is or what they look like or who is a girl or a boy, is the man or a woman, who cares. - So when I became a team, I decided, okay, I'm gonna figure out different situations for my childhood, all the trauma society has given me school, et cetera, and throughout this self discovery over the years, I realized that I don't know what I am in terms of identity. - Yeah. - I don't have the language yet to actually say, hey, I don't know, I am yellow or green. And I found the language in 2021 when I came across non-binary as an identity. And I started saying and realizing that it's not, but I mean, our father told, I thought that non-binary is about only trans people. So if you are medically transitioning, but then I, by reading a lot and saying to Google and talking to friends, I also realized that you don't necessarily need to medically transition, you can only show social transition. And if you want to have the label of non-binary, you can't, it's your state. - Yeah. - It's your state. - So this is how I discovered who I am, gender wise. And then when I took my coaching certification, I wanted to support others just like me because it's not very, it's not very known, like transition, so I didn't transition. I also said, I mean, I did the market research, there is no one else who does identity transition. And he's not a man or a woman. - Right. Well, and identity so much. I mean, it's not just am I male, am I female, am I masculine, am I feminine. I do have a question though, because this is the first time I've ever considered this in discussing non-binary. And I could be wrong for you, but I wonder if this is applicable to anyone who identifies as non-binary, but is it less of identifying with something different, or is it I just am? Like male and female is indifferent to me. I just am what I am, or is it kind of attaching to an identity? Like does non-binary just allow you to be who you are in whatever moment you're living in and without any sort of attachment to male female, or is it just a detachment from male and female and just allowing yourself to be in a state? - I would say it depends on the person. There are people out there who identify as both male and non-binary. I mean, you can also see it on their pronouns and they could see they or see they, they won't vote. There are also people out there who don't accept the gender binary as a whole, because it's a social construct. It wasn't, I mean, it's not based on the nature or anything. People, I mean, people constructed it. It can also be taken apart, let's say. - Yes, yes. - And there are also the ones who discard everything, so they don't want to have anything to do with the gender binary or non-binary and just might use the label because they haven't found something else that doesn't have to do anything with those three labels. - Right. But I would guess in either case, it really is just about surrendering. - Oh, you are. - I am, like I am, just whatever that is, I am. - Yes. - I mean, the queer community accepts identity as something that you set and you find. It's not given to you as bad by someone else. It's, you go through a discovery, yeah, I don't know, you spend years searching for it, exploration, therapy, whatever you want, go through it. - Right, however you came to that identity. - Yeah, at some point you say, I am illidan, I am non-binary, that's it. - And I can change that identity at any time I want. - Exactly. My, I mean, in 10 years, I might say that, hey, I would like to go back to being a woman. No one is, well, people might question it, but it's about me, it's about anyone else. - Well, and the reason I like the philosophy of you are who you discover yourself to be, not what anybody else tells you, is that's, you know, I'm not speaking specifically to any, like, community, I'm speaking to everyone when I say, because this isn't my thing, you know, like, I'm still learning about the queer community. So, you know, it would, of course, I'm an advocate and I'm a supporter, but an ally, but I don't understand all of it because I'm still learning about myself. So, like, I can't deconstruct everybody's stuff and understand it, you know? I mean, I feel like I know enough, but I, the sad thing to me about the term non-binary, being automatically rejected from people if they're not open, right? Is that they don't understand that they are really actually rejecting themselves too, because it's not any different of a notion to say, you are who you discover yourself to be in your gender identity, as it is to say, in your religion, in your spirituality, whether or not you believe in astrology, your hair color, what school you go to, whether or not you wanna be a good girl, you know? All of that is determined by the person you discover at the other end, not by what society or your parents or whoever have instructed you to be. So many people are stuck inside that confine and they're like, oh, I am what I was told I am, and they can't possibly imagine anybody else exploring or entering into a space where they get to decide who the hell they are and nobody else. So, I feel like it's sad because the more they accept themselves and love themselves and have compassion for themselves, the more they would understand. Nobody's asking you to do shit except for love yourself and have compassion for other people and their experiences, you know? - Yes, I see it more as, so I would say most of the society and most of the people are restrained and confined by society's rules and laws and what to be and what to do. So seeing someone else saying that, hey, I don't really give a fuck about you and about society, I'm gonna be who I am and I'm gonna choose to be non-binary gender, fluid, (indistinct chatter) Yes, so this annoys them, but also dig down, not frightens them, but I think they might be jealous. They're not allowed to do it themselves or they don't have the guts to do it because it takes time to stay ready to stand up and say, hey, I'm not one of the masses, I would like to be myself, this is me unique. - I am. - Period. - Period. - Yeah, I love that, but that's the work I've been doing on myself is just that discovery of when we dismiss others, it's because we're dismissing ourselves. So when you look at someone who's doing something radically different from you and you automatically scoff at it, that's because you haven't done the work to understand that you could do the same thing. No, you don't have to become non-binary if that's not how you identify once you've explored yourself, nobody gives a shit, that's the point, nobody gives a shit. Like you do what you wanna do, stop giving a shit about what I'm doing. Like let's all just self-first, you know? I'm gonna love myself, I'm gonna have compassion for myself and the more I pour into that love and compassion for me first, the more I'm able to be like, not my thing and I'm not talking about non-binary just for anyone, listen, that's not my thing. I'm not non-binary, but you know, just in general, when people are doing things radically different from me, I'm gonna give a shit, you know? Like it's like, let me see how I can support, I'm only looking for people in alignment with pursuing yourself, your purpose and your passion, whatever that is, whatever that is because I'm really looking for that co-op, you know, where you have a whole different set of strengths and gifts than I do and that's why we can all work together. You know, I do have this vision of, you know, where you're like, you know, that vision or that picture of like, there's a globe or whatever and everyone standing around holding hands? To me, that's kind of what I'm pursuing in terms of community, whether that is local, global, whatever, because I want to make a global impact and I'm saying the same shit you are, we're all saying the same shit, you know? - Yes. - You just gotta do the work and continue on that journey and then you find space for any community that you weren't previously a part of, you know? - Or I mean, I also had clients who, when they came to me, they didn't want to transition to another, they just wanted to take the gender woman or man and figure out what they want, who wanted to be specifically for them. Like, if you are wearing a costume and that your gender is a costume, they want to tailor it to fit them perfectly and not have a huge sense on the side and the scale is too long or too short or whatever. So it's not about only transitioning to another gender, it's also taking your own gender and exploring it further and realizing that, hey, I want to change the small things and just very, very change something, add my own unique idea to what my gender identity is and it doesn't have to change from man to woman to non-binary to whatever, it can stay in man and woman for more than a woman. - And I feel like I've really just been doing so much identity work myself in that idea that, you know, I can be imperfect and still love the imperfect parts of myself and I can show up, however, I'm feeling like showing up in that moment, you know? And embracing the more feminine for me because I have a very extensive history of trauma and I've lived in masculine energy my whole life in survival mode. And so now following the flow of feminine and just kind of allowing instead of chasing and planning, you know, which don't sound like bad characteristics, but when you're trying to control the outcome of every last thing you're doing, it takes away all amount of joy. And that's why it's important for people to understand anybody doing identity work, your gender really probably should be a part of that identity work, no matter what, because we all have different philosophies over what we need to show up like. So if I'm feminine, that doesn't mean shit. That's a state of being. That doesn't mean that I need to dress in all pink and whatever, I am more, I don't know, I just, I dress not, I mean, I kind of go back and forth because I don't put myself in a box, you know? I dress in whatever feels good that day, you know? Like if I feel like looking really girly, that's what I go for. And actually I do a lot of combination. Like I'll do hair and makeup and be in shorts and a tank top, you know? Like to me, I could just show up however the fuck I want and I'm not spending any time deciding what anybody else thinks about it, you know? Like it's a book. I mean, literally, who cares? If you walk in a Starbucks and everyone stares at you, I don't give a shit, you know? - And that's another point. I mean, when you, obviously society has actually brainwashed us to think that clothes can be feminine or masculine or androgynous or whatever that exists out there, but they're not, they're just clothes, so. - They're clothes, and you get your clothes. - Yeah, you want to wear something pink, you want to wear all black, you can, this is still, you can wear a skirt, jeans, trousers, leggings, you decide who you wear. - Nah. - Who is going to tell you, okay, no, this skirt is not for you because you are, I mean, it's feminine and you're not. - Yeah, like who can even imagine someone saying that? You know, I mean, it happens, don't play, but, you know, and that, I don't know, I just think we, that's so much a part of your identity work, no matter what part of your identity you're exploring is, do I love myself to give myself the permission to show up authentically in my own truth and in my own life every single day? Because the world is full of people who would love to make an impression on you and for you to believe the things they're selling, but what I know is we're selling a lot of sick out here. People are very unhappy, they're very discontent in their lives, and that's what I want to change because I'm like, oh, it doesn't have to be like this, but see what people are acknowledging is, you had to do your own work before you hit this stage, and I had to do my own work before I hit this stage, and if we're not healing ourselves, we're being fucking counterfeit. You're out there selling a fake-ass product if you haven't done the work yourself, you know? - Yes, you're telling people that, yeah, yeah, I will do the work, I mean, no, you can do the work, but I am not doing the work, I'm gonna be talking about the work without doing the work. - Right, yeah, well, I mean, and to me, it's like the same reason people get into toxic relationships, you're just trying to fix that person so that you can fix yourself. You think that if you make this person love you in a different way than they're fucking capable of, all of a sudden, your parents are gonna love you for exactly who you are, and you're gonna love you for exactly who you are, and blah, blah, blah. Obviously, nobody's walking around thinking this shit consciously, but it is what it is, that's what we're doing. We are entering into relationships, romantic and otherwise, hoping to fill a part of our soul with the things that we haven't gotten yet. And then you learn, oh, I have the cup. I have the cup into myself. Nobody else can take my cup, they can't take my water, they can't take shit unless I offer it to them. - Yeah, it's like having a pot on the fire which has no water in it and you are still boiling it. At some point, you're gonna burn the whole house down. - Mm-hmm, yep, exactly. And I do have so much compassion for people who don't understand that they need to heal so much, but I'm kind of, I must be being led to a collective specifically because this calling right now on this balance of dark and light is so strong that I'm like, man, people really just kind of think they have to be perfect and they really hate when they're not perfect. And I just don't give a shit anymore. I'm sometimes gonna be late to things, I lose things. I disappoint people, I disappoint myself, you know, but it's not about not holding yourself accountable. Of course you hold yourself accountable to all things, but it is really about like, okay, that's fine because we're all humans in a human space and we're gonna do this type of shit. We're gonna hurt each other, we're gonna offend each other, we're gonna do whatever. But compassion and balance says, hey, I actually understand that my shit's about me and your shit's about you. So here's probably why I reacted that way and we can just move on, you know? Because we don't have to sit and garner that identity based off every social interaction we have. - Yes, it shouldn't be influenced by everyone on the outside. Also, oh, another thing that you said before about things, a lot of people out there into denial themselves that life is good, I have my job, I have a family, kids, parents, my child, et cetera, everything goes well and they're filling the holes that they might have in themselves with, I don't know, buying things, eating, alcohol drugs, et cetera, et cetera. - So I wouldn't, I mean, at one point or another, they might realize that they're in denial or they might never do it. - Yeah. - But still, it's up to them. - Yes, absolutely. It's hard, I wonder if this is a struggle for you, is it sometimes hard to watch someone as an outsider, like you come across them on social media or someone a distant relative or whatever. Sometimes it's hard for me to watch from the outside and know if you just did these things, you know, like you'd be so much happier, but I can't force my message on anyone and it's stuff that you can't just hear and then be like, I'm healed, you know. They don't wanna do that work, they're scared of it and I know that because I was so scared of facing my feelings. I thought that that would mean I'm gonna feel the way I did when I wasn't facing my feelings and I was incredibly depressed. I thought I was gonna feel like that again, well, shit, it's so much easier to just look at myself and be like, oh, okay, and sit in this than to deny, deny, deny and be a miserable human, but you can't make somebody understand, you know? I hate that, I hate it. - Yeah, so during my coaching training, it was taught to us that people need to ask for self, they come to us as clients. So if someone wants to be coached on identity or life transition, they should, I mean, not should, but they realize that they need it and they come and say, hey, I would like to do coaching. - Right. - I mean, I can only market my services but they can already come and take you by the front and say, hey, my Lisa, you need coaching. - Yeah. - It's not gonna work because you need to be at the stage and space where you actually know that you need coaching and seek and provide to them. - Well, and I see why they tell addicts you have to hit rock bottom first before you really make a change because for me, I had to be at the worst mental place I've ever been in my entire life to change, to look at myself, to be like, I'm the center of a lot of fucked up shit in my life right now and I need to find out what the fuck I'm doing to attract these experiences. And boy, howdy, just didn't even realize all of my toxic patterns that I had been involved in forever. And now that's just not happening. I mean, yeah, it is scary to think that you have to leave people behind who aren't in alignment with you and places and things, and it does suck, but it sucks so much less than living an inauthentic life. - So therapy usually takes people from whichever rock bottom they have sit and take them to a good place. Coaching can continue the work. So basically take people from a good place and take them to a better place. - Absolutely, absolutely. - Absolutely. - And usually, I mean, for me, for I didn't transition specifically, someone wants to do a gender identity or sex identity transition, they need to have had therapy before. Basically solve all of their childhood trauma, parents, I don't know, siblings, whatever, whatever is there. And then say, hey, I'm done, I don't know, two, three, four, how many years therapy? I had a gap between to sort my feelings, thoughts, et cetera, and now I am in a good place and I'm ready to start finding myself or my identity. I love that to me, that's so responsible because I see people out there, I'm not gonna say too much, but I see people doing things they're not qualified to do and that's so dangerous. You know, like, I'm like, honey, I'm not even qualified to do that and I am a licensed therapist. So I don't think that that's something you should be doing but you know what, I'm gonna let you take your journey. You just do you boo 'cause I'm not getting involved in that. But it's scary, but at the same time, with this newness, I'm like, well, who's to say they're not qualified? You know, I mean, they're going to create a sort of liability for themselves if the worst happens but there are people with lived experiences that are just as qualified as I am for lots of things. So I don't wanna say people shouldn't, whatever, but you shouldn't market yourself as something that you don't have the credentials for, you know? I agree also. I mean, I had clients in the past who had coaching with coaches who were not supposed to do it or went certified. And as we say, both in coaching and therapy, you cannot really open doors. You don't know where they lead because we're talking about people in the side. So I had clients coming to me and realizing and know second-hand coaching session that the special needs to go to therapy first and then it comes back to me if they're at some place. And I always told them, hey, I think you need to talk to a licensed professional or whatever. - Yeah. - And if you solve whatever fits there, you can come back and we can continue from where we left or from where you are, you will be at that point. - Yeah. - And it's a pity that the coaching is not regulated by governments, laws worldwide. I mean, there are coaching associations like international sports infederation where I'm a member, but it's non-profit private association. - Right. - You are a coaching race, there's no government, there's no law that says that coaches need to follow a code of ethics and administrative law. - Right. And I think a code of ethics is a great place to start for anybody. But I also think like, trying to word it right, I think it's easy for people like us to do what we're doing because we have done that work on ourselves. So we're not saying anything that we don't know to be the truth because we've done this work, right? Whatever you've done your identity work, I've done my identity work. That's why we're able to say this. And I've seen really my only complaint about the coaches who are marketing themselves to a crowd that they really shouldn't be sometimes is the fact that they're kind of pushing that toxic positivity. So they're saying a lot of the same shit we're saying, but they don't, they haven't done the work. So they don't actually know what we mean. They're, they think they do because they know it in their own way, because I know that the things I'm saying now, maybe I've said them before, but damn, it's evolved into what it is now, you know, because each step, each thing I chipped away from myself to look at, it's brought a new knowing. So nobody who hasn't done that work could know what the fuck I mean if they haven't done it. And so, you know, it's hard to balance toxic positivity with the idea that you can hold yourself accountable and responsible while also still promoting love for yourself first. You can acknowledge that you fucked up and still love the shit out of yourself in that humanness and just move forward without any, without like very neutral. Like, oh, it is what it is. I did that, okay, I need to make a repair. I do that and I move forward, not sitting around covered in shame for a prolonged amount of time before we make a decision to move forward. And that's, I think, where the coaches who haven't done the work, and I'm talking about a very small percentage, but still, it's important to say, please know who you're following and know what kind of work they've done on themselves before you decide this is a person you need to listen to because they may not know what the hell they're talking about. - Yeah, well, it's not really a small percentage. I think it's somewhere 40% out of the 100. Funny thing is that there are coaches out there and the fact that they haven't done therapy ever in their life, and they still go, and they're still, and they are coaches and I'm like, if not, it doesn't make sense. How can you quote someone, support them to get to a better place when you yourself haven't figured out, whoa, fuck are you cutting? That's my guess. - Right, look. I just feel like some people go, okay, I'm seeing people be real successful at this life coach thing, and I get really good advice. Everybody in my life tells me I give good advice, which right there tells me they're in toxic cycles, no matter what, because if you are the person, everyone's coming to you to rescue, something ain't right, baby, something ain't right. You got to check yourself. If the day would even recognize that, they're bragging about the fact that everybody in their life says they give good advice. So that must mean I need to be a life coach, and so I get my $35 or $100 certification. Here I am, blah, blah, blah. I'm giving advice, and I'm like, "Baggy, you're leading people to hell, "what are you doing with it?" And they don't know what the fuck they need, and you're telling them they need this, and they're just so desperate for change that they're like, okay, what? I mean, if only people understood that coaching isn't consulting, isn't therapy, you don't give advice, you know yourself, the client knows themselves, you are there to support them, to find out what they want to explore, and you do the process, you don't give observation, see if the client doesn't want them, you don't tell them what to do, if the client doesn't want them, you don't do it, it's about asking questions, and setting up, and of course other methods and stuff around, but-- - Sure, sure. - You know about giving your personal advice, and then calling, "Who, I mean, life coach?" And this is the main problem there, whenever I say, I mean, I actually change the life coach to like transition coach, so I don't have people coming to maintain, "Oh, you're a life coach, can you give me advice?" (laughing) - You're like, "What part of me made you think "I got my shit together and have to be your life coach?" - I don't want to give advice, and I don't give advice, so you want advice? I don't know, go to your mother. - Yeah, let me advise you to go find someone else to talk to, well, that's the things I talked to a mindset coach yesterday from London, I'm going international now, this is so fun. But she's a bad ass, she's doing what she's preaching, so I would be lying, I'll know what her certifications are before I post the episode, but it was all very fast, so I really don't, I don't remember, but she's doing the shit she's preaching. You can see, we had a quick conversation about, I said, "Okay, well, let me just ask you this, "sometimes I still have a problem in public "giving out my card, I get a little shy," and she's like, "Okay, but we both know shyness is fear. "People can't know that you have this great message "if you don't stand on a stage and say, "Listen to me, I can help you, and that's part of it, "and you know that people are going to say no, "and you can let that affect you for a second, "but you don't let it stop you." And I was like, "Yeah, you're right, you're right." But I mean, she's not telling me, you know, I don't like have a heroin addiction that she's trying to treat as a mindset coach, you know? I mean, I've seen this shit, and I'm like, "Baby, listen, I want to love it, "I want to love that you're a former addict, "and you're over here, you know, "trying to help people get to recovery, I get that, "but this isn't the way, this isn't the way to do." You're giving a little bit of false information, but that's fine, that's fine. I mean, I just stay away from it because, you know, I don't know if you do this too, but I'm really watching, like, just being very mindful over anything I consume, social media, music, anything. If it's not in alignment with my values, the second I come into contact with it, I'll just keep going, because I'm not putting anything into me that I don't want to come out of me. So if I, you know, like I used to be obsessed with true crime, I mean, I still am. I want to watch Bailey Sarian every day of my life. I love her, but, you know, it's not healthy to sit around hearing stories of people being brutally murdered all the time, so I have stopped, but I miss it because I want my Bailey, and even her dark history is dark, and I just, it's not good for me. I got to consume light, you know? I got to, if I want to be the light, I can't take in that type of darkness. But do you, are you really mindful about what you consume? Is that important to you? - I would say it depends. So for my work as a coach, I do stay informed about, I won't say the current trends, but science, and coaching, anything that I need to know. Sorry, it books about trans lives and more and more into about, I didn't transition to get more knowledge because, well, okay, I have my only experiences, but it's also good to have them. - Yes. - Hearing the knowledge that is given. But I also, I would say, entertain myself. So there are times that I want to just scroll through Instagram rails and memes and see what's out there, or watch some movies and series. But I used to also, I mean, I have a huge collection of movies and, of course, series. And whenever I want to watch something I do, I don't censor, I mean, I don't censor myself, I don't censor my taste. And the movies or series I watch, I just don't compartmentalize. If I'm gonna do work for my job as a coach and I put it there, if it's, I mean, I do it separately. And if I want to just relax after the work is done and everything, then okay, I'm gonna watch a movie or some series, check the shows and then go to sleep. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, I wouldn't, for example, watch a movie and then have coaching session with someone. That's, yeah, no. - You wanna stay in that energy? - Yeah, so I mean, I have a preparation before I do a coaching session to put myself into, I used to meditate, but to ground myself and be ready for whatever the client is gonna bring during the coaching session and be there for them to be present, to support them. And then at the end, take also some time to take out, take off any energy that might have left, emotional that I might have been feeling that are not mine, they're projected from the client. And if I want to watch at the end, I don't know, after I am done with my work, movie series, music, go out with friends, et cetera, then just again. - My personal time, I can do whatever I want. - Right, right. So did your parents struggle with you? Becoming, identifying as non-binary? - They don't know. Well, they might, I mean, they have indications, if they wanted to actually say that, hey, 'cause everybody want to see it and say, hey, leader is non-binary, they have many indications from how I dress, to how I cut my hair, not now, my hair style. I'll point this next week to how I don't know, I talked or whatever, my Instagram stories and posts, my mother used to follow them and then I blocked here because she was saying my posts and commenting and saying that I'd make sure, accumulate a few different friends. - Oh, God. So I have socially transitioned, my close friends know, but not my parents. I mean, there you are, right now there's a 60s to 70s. It's a huge generation gap. I don't consider my, I mean, it took years to repair our relationship. I don't want to destroy it in an instant and then I don't know how many years they're gonna still be alive to repair it again, if ever. So for them, I'm gonna be always there. They're both great. I can do whatever I want to play then be away from my parents. - Well, and that's just a part of your identity. You're this, these people's daughter to them and it just, and again, when you're, and there are people who would give you shit for that. There are people who would be like blah, blah, blah. You're not living in your truth, but this is what I fucking love is you get to decide who knows what about you. And that is still authentic to decide who's safe to express yourself to and who's not. And that is a part of being emotionally available too, is to learn. I don't have to be all out there at all times. I can sit quietly in a corner and observe. I don't have to be anything. I get to be whatever I want whenever I wanna show up as that. And I, we're all very multifaceted humans. So it would be silly to try to show up as the exact same thing in every interaction. I mean, some people aren't gonna be nice and you shouldn't go give yourself to those people, give very little to them. You know, don't be vulnerable. And I'm like that, they're gonna destroy you. - Yes, I mean, you don't need to bring to pull yourself out there every time. I mean, you decide where you want to actually present yourself. It's also why I don't really like the phrase coming out. When people say, I did my come out as gay, bisexual, and binary, whatever, whatever, what do you mean by coming out? You were always that, just being comfortable, covering now you have it. You're still out yourself. There's no out. - Yep, yeah, and also every person in the queer community that I have ever known on a personal basis, whether they had told their families or not, they've been living their truth for a long time and have been giving the indications that they wanted to give when they wanted to give them. But to them, all of them, they've mostly been like, no, I mean, if they want to know, they can fucking ask. It's not their business anyway. Like, you know, and I'm like, yes. - Yeah, so there is this series, " here on Netflix" where the two students nicknamed Charlie Tokwizadar and Nick, who found out that their bisexual says that the apologize is because they couldn't come out to their friends. And Charlie says that there is this notion that whenever a person, yeah, so as I was saying, there's so basically Charlie saying that there is this notion that whenever someone transitions and identifies as something else, they should come out to all their friends and family on an Eastern. - Yeah. - I mean, why would you do that? You just decide to talk to the people that you want to inform and it's your own truth. You don't have to tell anyone. - Why? - Because we're still looking for validation, acceptance, and approval. You want to say this new thing about yourself and somebody give you the feedback you were hoping for. You want them to say the word. I accept you, I love you. I validate you as a human. That's a great choice. But we... - Isn't that a goal? - Yeah, that's the work is learning that I don't have to tell anyone anything until I want to because I've already done all that for myself. I validate me, I accept me and I love me. So when I choose to allow someone else in that space to understand me a little better, it's going to be because I feel safe with them and not in a way where I mean, I'm no longer, since I'm becoming more emotionally available, I'm not pushing everyone away and keeping them in a box and only sharing small snippets. But I'm not going to go to somebody who I know damn well has a belief system very, very, very, very different than mine and be like, "Hey." Whether it's a parent or not, mine or dead, but you know, like any one of my family, I'm not going to go and be like, "Hey, yeah, "I'm not a Christian anymore. "I'm super spiritual and blah, blah, blah." Isn't that great? And that's why I'm not going to fucking do that because what are they going to do? They're going to tell me I'm going to hell, they're going to tell me this and what? I don't need that shit and I don't need their approval. They don't, you can find out organically what I'm doing and either be a part of it or not. And if you're not, I'm going to give a fuck. Don't, that's fine. Just be happy. Don't look real fucking happy doing what you're doing, but what do I know? That's not my business. So if you ever want or desire to be in this space with me, great, if not, nobody fucking cares, you know? Just go be you and I'll be you. - It takes a lot of time to lend that, to the land that we don't have to inform people that, "Hey, today, I don't know. "I'm wearing a green jacket. "Do you like it or not?" Or, tomorrow, I'm going to be in a binary. And the next day, I'm going to be Christian, Muslim. And I aspire to do whatever, whatever. No, it's up to you. You decide and then if you want to inform others because you feel safe around them, you tell them. - Yeah. - But it's about them. - I'm finding your inner alignment with you is 'cause you felt safe to tell them. You didn't tell them to bring some point. But see, that's the thing is that so many people are seeking that like validation and all of that, that they make a statement because they're trying to find their community even. It can be something as innocent as trying to find a community. And then people see the statement, respond accordingly, and maybe they even got what they wanted in that moment. Maybe they did get validated and accepted, but then they don't give themselves any room to continue to move forward because, well, I made this public declaration of who I am and now I'm boxed in because I am still reliant upon these people for my acceptance love and validation. So I can't move forward and tell people shit and then they stay stuck. They stay exactly like, I fucking signed up to run a full marathon a few years ago. I was in, I had been doing halfs forever, but halfway through the training, I got an injury that fucked my leg. I mean, not that bad, but it was enough to make training a bitch. And I fell during a training run and it's like, I got my knee really good. And it was the same knee that I was having problems with in the training, like it was, you know, in the back of my knee that was strained and then I fell and hit my actual knee really hard. Not that serious, but it was fucking with my training. And then because I had to take some time off, I don't run well in the humidity and here in Oklahoma, super hot and humid whenever we're not in the winter time. So I have a little, little, little bit of asthma and it's very exacerbated in the humidity. So training, not going well. I knew damn well, I should have converted to the half. I knew I could not run that fucking full marathon, but my ego was like, well, I've already told everyone I'm doing it, I got to do it. They all know I've been training for 18 weeks, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. It took me so much to finish that thing. And I was literally one of the last out of like hundreds of thousands of people, okay? I was one of the most horrific experience. I'm not sad that I did it. I'm sad that I fucking followed through with something that made me that miserable because I told people I was going to do it. I've done this in my life. - Yeah, you promise you're going to do it and you couldn't suck out of your words and say that I am not going to be doing it because I'm sad. - Yeah, because I created some social contract with people, I wasn't even envisioning anyone specific, but I was like, I'd have to tell people I quit and I'm not doing it. You guys, you quit if you need to quit. Like, oh, it's fine. Like, that experience shaped me a little bit because I was like, all right, sis. And I was really stupid. I was in misery for days following that, you know, and I mean, I'm not even sure my hip suffered from it yet and that was years ago. I don't even remember maybe five years ago, but I mean, I quit running after that. It took every ounce of my joy from running away. That was it, I was done. I might do like some five Ks here and there, but I will never fucking do distance running again. So maybe that's what I needed, I don't know, but running long distance did give me some good strengths like discipline, but I did not need that in my, I was doing just fine at the halfs and the truth is I only ever signed up for the full because of peer pressure because somebody I knew wanted to run the full and encouraged me to run the full so that they'd have someone to run with it. I didn't have a desire to run the full yet. I was just now getting a really good pace in the half, you know, like I was feeling great about my progress on the half. - Yeah, I'm so sorry. But it's still like, I didn't need to sign up to begin with. - Yeah, someone in company pressure you to join and then you ended up being felt and running and - Yeah, I mean, I'm also like me at all. - Yeah, I was in a box that I created for myself because I wanted external validation. I wanted someone to be like, I'm so proud of you. Yeah, do you know how many people said they're proud of me? - Possibly, possibly my husband said it. I don't remember, but that would be it. Nobody else was fucking proud that I put my body through that shit to do something that I didn't need to do to begin with. What did I need to prove? Nothing, but I was. I mean, I was working towards approval, you know? And now I have zero problem being like, no, I will not run that with you. Thank you so much. Go find a different running buddy. - Yeah, yes. I think it's the, I don't want to say society, but it's also how we're raised. I mean, I remember at my school, as a kid, private school, but we are asked, I mean, we're asking for external validation from the future that we do well. We don't learn to say to identify that, hey, I finished this exercise. I am proud of myself. It's very interesting that in schools in Finland, kids learn about empathy, about emotions from the age of four, this is an ocean unknown in the Southern of Europe. At school, we learn math, we learn history, we learn religion as a topic, but, you know, not about ourselves. No emotion, I don't even know nothing. - Thankfully in America, that's really changing because I used to be a school counselor actually. And I was, I loved getting to teach kids about the stuff I'm now talking to adults about all the time, you know, I still, I'm doing a little work with kids. And I love it because they are learning skills we were never gonna get, because all that mattered then was achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve. And none of that really, I don't know. But then again, I was just having this thought. Like my daughter, you know, I'm trying to repair some of the programming that I gave her, but I also wanna meet her exactly where she is. I don't wanna, I don't want my intention to reprogram, to make her think I don't love validate or approve who she is in this exact moment. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, Southern her thinking patterns aren't necessarily healthy for her, but she's not gonna hear my mom wants the best for me if I try to correct that she's gonna hear I'm not good enough for my mom. And so even, even though I can identify some unhealthy patterns, I wanna be right where she is. I wanna be right there exactly where she is in that moment and meet the need she has at present instead of trying to control and, you know, dictate and whatever. And so for me again, it's that flow, you know, it's the flow of allowing and attracting instead of chasing and demonizing or weaponizing. Like we really can just say, yep, in my head, I know that's probably not great for you, but I can also sit here with you right where you are and accept you and love you for whoever you happen to be in this moment and you're safe enough that if in one minute you wanna be somebody totally fucking different, I'm gonna meet you there too, you know? - Yeah, I mean, you can, well, when it doubts, you can ask what she needs, your daughter or the person you have across, you will never find out what someone needs if you don't ask them. And if they don't want to share or if they don't know what they need, then they can also say, I don't know, instead of, I don't know, coming up with an answer because someone is asking, it's okay to say, I don't know. - Yeah, and you know what? That's such a good reminder, thank you, because I am not good at that. I am such, I am very good at reading energy and I'm very good at feeling what a person needs. I'm not good at asking. And that is a form of connection too, and that can help them to feel safer. And so I really do need to do better at that. So thank you, because you're not gonna know what people fucking need if you don't say, well, how can I be here for you? What do you need from me right now? What can I be? But that's the great thing about teaching kids feelings too, is 'cause I have a kid who will say, I need attention instead of teaching her like, hey, I'm getting, you're needing some attention right now, 'cause this behavior would indicate that to me. I need you who just asked for it because I can't do this, like this is, I don't have the capacity for this behavior today. I'm busy, blah, blah, blah. So like, are you needing attention? Let's go be together, like what, okay, yeah. And so now she's starting to say, well, I need attention. She's 10, but you know, I'm like, okay, well, thank you for fucking telling me that. Let's go give you attention instead of me having to correct a behavior. I don't want you to see anymore because you're driving me fucking crazy. - Yeah, I mean, kids can learn how to ask what they need and then also receive what they need in healthy doses instead of being all around and giving them all good attention every day, all day, specific slots and start out time throughout your schedule. So today we're gonna play a game. We're gonna go out at the park, have a little picnic. I'm gonna be yours for about a month of time and then you're gonna start there. I'm gonna do my work. We're gonna be together. - Yeah, and this isn't something that I've spent a lot of time, you know, thinking about because I'm decent at work-life balance. But you know, now that I'm a freelancer, you know how much work goes into that because you're doing everything. Something that a boss used to take care of for you, you're the boss, you know? So I'm busy and it has been a little bit of strain, but I think in my identity work that I started years ago, and I mean, I wasn't anywhere near that I am now, but I've always been like, you can't be a good mom if you're not a good Melissa first. So like feed yourself and then go take care of your kid. But I think that for the people who are struggling to identify as anything other than their child's parent, it's hard for them to see that like too much attention also isn't a good thing. Like these kids need a little bit of boredom. They need a little bit of fear when they're away from you. Like just a little bit of, so they can know what that feels like so that they can like move beyond and they can go, "Oh, sometimes I get a little nervous at separation "from my parent, but I always know "they're gonna come back at the end and we're gonna be fine." You know, but if you don't give them that opportunity, how will they learn that? 'Cause some things can only be experienced, you know? - Yes. I mean, I cannot really talk about what kids need because I am not a parent and I don't have any education, certification for kids specifically, but from my own experience, I love being alone. I love having times that I would play with my, with Legos and play mobile and build fastness and not really have an imaginary thread, but make stories or write stories. As in think stories in my mind and then write them down and then be able to do this if I had my mother around me all the time saying, playing together. It's difficult to do. - Right, right. - But in a way taking it from my own experience, I would say that kids also need some solitude, some time to spend alone and learn to play alone and not really be alone forever, but understand how it is to be alone in their room and have feelings on themselves. - Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm going to honor our time, but I really appreciate you joining me today. I have loved this conversation. I love the work you're doing and I just, I love, I do love how ethical you are. I think it's so important to align with people who have values and, you know, when you are willing to look at ethics, you are dying to ego and that is great. I think that's all of our quest to die to ego and just be that light. Yes, I want success, wealth, opportunity, and abundance and prosperity for myself too, but I believe those things will come with the effect that I'm having on the world. And so if the effect I'm having on the world is the north, the shit just follows that, you know? - Yeah. I mean, a good friend told me once, there are certain codes that, if you go into coaching for money, you're not going to be that successful as a coach. You do coaching because you want to be in service to someone. Money will come. It's a means, it's not a means to an end, it's going to be around there. You're going to be proud of what you do not arrive and become a billionaire through coaching. - Right, well, and if you, to me, the way I kind of have been doing it is, if that is the focus, not a goal, it's fine to have that as a goal, but if that is your primary focus, you're in that masculine controlling energy and you're not allowing things to come to you and you're limiting your opportunities really because your brain only knows so much and that's where it's going to limit you, it's going to put you in spaces that you feel safe and comfortable in. When you just go, hey, I want to make an impact and everything just follows and flows, then you do end up in positions that you weren't expecting and you just have to prepare for that and go, okay, whatever happens, I'm here for it. And please, by all means, universe, send me shit I'm not expecting, you know? Like, send me those opportunities that I could never dream of because I'm not limiting myself with my own dreams. I'm saying, hey, there's dreams bigger than what I'm capable of, bring it all, bring it all because I'm going to go as far out there as I possibly can with this impact. I want a global impact. - Mm-hmm, yeah, yes. Yeah, it's a, yes, it's an aspiration for me. We'll see what happens. You never know. Actually, no one knows what happens in the future. - Right, right, and just be open. - Exactly. Thank you, Marissa, for having me on your-- - Thank you, really. - You have a wonderful broadcast. - Absolutely, I hope you have a great weekend. - You too. - Thank you, bye bye. - Bye. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally on a visible ♪ - Hey, hey, hey, what do you say? Listen, first and foremost, please make sure that you have provided this podcast with a five-star rating on whichever platform that you are listening. If you want to support the show, please rate, like, and share. Also, like, comment, and share on any social media posts that you see for me on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok. Please follow the podcast Facebook, emotionally unavailable podcast. You can shop my foot online, store, or schedule a one-on-one with me. Emotionally, unavailablepodcast.org. I'm offering what I'm calling a non-traditional counseling, astrology readings, and tarot readings, and self-policing services. And thank you so much for listening to the emotionally unavailable podcast. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally on a visible ♪ - All right, I hope you liked that episode with LITA. I will have all information in the show notes. And, until next time, let's all just keep swimming. (upbeat music) ♪ Emotionally on a visible ♪ - I-N-D-E-P-E, and cook.