Meet Jaelah! I loved our conversation about becoming more empowered to stand in our own truth. You can connect with Jaelah on Insta @ https://www.instagram.com/jaelahnicole/
Emotionally Unavailable
Episode 53: Moved
I'm having mixed feelings about that actually. First of all, fuck you, but-- [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to Emotionally Unavailable, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of emotional availability and intimacy. I'm your host, Melissa Hepner, and I can't tell you how excited I am to have you join me on this journey of self-discovery and connection. Whether you're navigating the complexities of relationships or exploring your own emotional landscape, this podcast is here to inspire, empower, and entertain. So get cozy and let's explore the depths of human emotions together. Hey, guys. I hope you're doing well. Welcome to episode 53. Today, I had a fun conversation with Jayla. She is a model, and I will make sure that I include all of her socials in the show notes. And I hope that you like our conversation, because I really did. And hope you guys are well. All right, here's me and Jayla. [MUSIC PLAYING] [SINGING] Talking to you today. I'm so good. How are you? Good. You look gorgeous. OK, so do you pronounce your name, Jayla? Yeah. OK, perfect. OK. We met on threads. It's crazy how much people are just putting out there, but I'm here for it. I'm like, this is the new thing. Let's do this. Let's actually help each other. So you mentioned some things in our DM session. But I wondered if it would be OK if we just kind of talked a little bit about where you're at right now. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about that. OK. I'll let you know. What-- where do you live? So I live in Jersey City. So I've lived in New York for like-- well, I moved to Jersey City a year ago, but I live in New York for like eight years before that. So up here in New York. I love New York. Hello. I don't know why I have such an affinity for New York. I've only been a couple of times. And I only went to Manhattan and did all the touristy shit left. Because it was like real quick trips, you know? But I want to go and do all the upstate stuff. Like, oh, video there. Yeah, it's just beautiful here. And they're honestly-- like, it's crazy living here, but it's so great. Like, there's always something to do. And yeah. Yeah. So where are you originally from? So I'm from Georgia in North Carolina. OK. And I was born in North Carolina. Yeah, military family. OK, OK. North Carolina must have been an interesting experience. Actually, Georgia too, was it? Yeah, it was. Just because military towns and both of those places. Like, I mean, I loved it. It was like homey and like, so good and stuff. But at the same time, it was just so like-- I feel like for one, I've lived a lot in my life 27 times to be exact in a home. It's just like, I've lived in so many different like settings and like, just spaces. But it's been fun. It's just like, everyone's different. Like, North Carolina is like this like country trying to it. So there's Georgia in a way, but it's also city. Oh my gosh. I love Georgia accents so much. They're so sweet there too. Yes. I mean, you know, there's some not-sweet people there too. And they still sound sweet because of their damn accents. And it's a lot of, I mean, you know, you're like-- Exactly. --that the worst shit you could possibly say in a journey. You know, I'm having mixed feelings about that actually. No, really. They'll just add a bless your heart at the end. And I'm just 5,000 in souls. You're surprising. Well, yeah. I really empathize, even though I've tried to like, steer away from that word. But I have a lot of like, a lot of compassion for military kids because my husband was a military kid. And like, did you as a woman get this question a lot? Did people ask you, like, are you going to go in the military and then like, be surprised if you said no? Not really, honestly. Only because I was always a girly girl, like kind of a girly girl. And then I was an artist. So like, I don't know, not for me necessarily. But, you know, that wasn't even a thing for me, really. Really? OK. I know. Well, I guess because he was the oldest boy, he was that kind of a boy. And he was always like, no, I've got like-- I'm early release for time served is what he would always say. Because he's like, hell no. I served in the military, right along with these motherfuckers. Most of his really core developmental years happened in Germany. Very isolated, very socially scented, you know? So you are more outgoing, but I wonder, you know, nature and nurture are so interesting to me because I wonder if you were forced to be because you were the new kid a lot. Yes. It's like when you moved up is there out. See, that's the I wish. But it's like for me, when you move every two to five years, it's like you're used to switching your dynamic and where you are and stuff. But I guess for him, maybe he was just more like he closed off, which he did too. And very dismissive. Yeah. But I mean, I think that some of that is probably family dynamics too, like emotionally and available parents, whatever. Yes. But yes, do you feel like you wore a lot of masks? Oh, my gosh, yes. And then I have three sisters. I'm the second oldest. So there was already that dynamic of like take care of stuff and like this and that. But then when you're moving and like you're always having to adjust, it's like you have to switch to whatever the new setting is, the new space. And then also too, I mean, what military kids, nobody talks about the fact that at the end of the day, whenever we get that day where your parents come in and they're like, yeah, we're moving to wherever. It's like that is a big deal because by then you have friends, you have family places. And luckily, my family never went out of the country like too far or anything. We went to-- it was like North Carolina, Georgia, back and forth a lot, and New York at a point like early on when I was younger. But like it was still moving at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. So-- Absolutely. Listen, I don't ever minimize that because my daughter has this huge loss wound just from losing two very, very, very, very, very important stuffed animals to her when she was really little. Well, one just lost a couple of years ago. It's been devastating for her. But also, we moved once in her life, one. And she is 10. We moved when she was five. She still grieves that house. No, seriously. Because it's like those things are-- those are impressionable years for one just saying. Like even one of my younger sisters, she had a dog at a point and like, for whatever reason, like my mom got rid of the dog or whatever. But like even that whole wound was like-- it's just so deep because it's like that was tough to move. And like, look at your comfort item. Yeah. You didn't get a saying. You lost control. Yeah. I can so see that now that I've been doing this work on my specific wounding. I think once you are able to find more peace about all those experiences later in life, there will be at least things that you can recall from those areas that will be cool, you know? But let me ask you this. Did you notice your parents minimizing things whenever it was like, hey, guys, we're going to move? And they like cannot handle an expression of emotion about it. So it's very stoic. Like, it is what it is. You know your dad's in the military. You know this. Was it that kind of intense? Or how did they handle those moves for you? I feel like they kind of made it seem like it was like regular. Like it's like, yeah, like kind of an adventure, like, you know, we're moving to wherever. And, you know, it's a really conservatively. Yeah, like positively. And then I would say there was just no space for like, oh, this is really hard or like whatever. Like it's not even like, like even if they cared, there was not a space to be like, yeah, like I'm just not happy about that. Like, I don't remember even expressing an emotion about it. Maybe somewhere, somewhere you knew, Dan, while you could. Sure. Yeah. I think I was just, it was shoved down. So I just would do it. But I was like, I have friends that I'm leaving. And like, it just says a lot. And you give those orders so fast, right? Like, isn't the time that you hear that you're moving pretty soon from the time that you move? It is very quick. Yeah. And then how did that shape? I've never thought about this, but how did that shape how your family works together? Because I'm sure every single one of you had to be responsible for the move, right? Oh, for sure. Yeah, there's always something about it. Like just something, whether it's like, just understanding like, are we going to share rooms at the next house? Like how are we like, I'll say they handled like the packing stuff, like the annoying parts of the move, but it's some emotional aspect. Yeah. There would just be certain things where it's like, I just have to do this. Like we are moving and I got to push this aside. Like, yeah, that's my friends. Yeah, I wish, or I'm going to go to a new school. Like, there would just be certain things that were just always like, okay, like, just got to do it. Just got to, don't ask questions, this move, just move. That's the same thing with like, when 9/11 happened, my dad went to Iraq two years after that. And I was like, like, even that, I'm just like, you went to Iraq for a whole year and I remember it, but it's just like, I don't even, I remember feeling like, what, like my dad's going to another country, but I was like, I don't even know how to feel. Like, I remember feeling like, it was just weird. I don't know how to describe it. Wow. Okay, this tells me a lot then. This tells me your parents don't talk about shit in front of me. Oh, it's not really like, it's like, would they be the parents to sit down and be like, all right, so your dad's going to Iraq and stuff. Yes, they would do that, but it's almost like past that first initial, like, there's a change happening, or it's like, we also knew we're military kids, right? So in a way, it's like, we just watched things happen, but it wasn't like, are you okay? How's week one of, you know, without your dad here? I don't know, you miss, like, I don't remember that. I don't know. Yeah, and I think that's probably a really normal experience, but it's really, this is such an interesting concept to even think about because I'm just thinking like, damn, this is generational too. This is like parents who have been taught the same way I was, you know. And I can feel that they wanted to do it differently than it was done for them. Because I hear compassion in that, you know, and their experience as their children, but I can see that they very much had to be like, we can't feel pain for our children, yay, because it's too much. And this is the life we've lined up for. There's not shit we can do, not shit they can do. So we just have to try to make this the best that we can. And almost like, if we say something, it might alert an emotion out of them. So instead of that, let's just like, let's all, let's have a late, and pretend it's not happening, and we'll just make the best of this. - I think on behavioral issues when my dad went to Iraq, like I was like, hmm, that was 2020, or not 20, but it was 2001 or 2002 or something like that. Anyways, I was probably like, yeah, I was 29 now. I don't want to do math, but I was young. And so at that time, I just remember that I was like, kind of lashing out a little bit, like at my mom, like just about it could be anything. Like she had us doing like summer reading one time. And I remember being like frustrated with that. Cause I was like, I don't even want to do this. And then there was just things that were happening. But at that time, I remember thinking like, I was like, maybe I'm just like not a good kid or something. But internally, I probably was just dealing with like, my dad being gone, like me feeling like, and I had a young baby sister. Like I think my dad loved a year, or he went to Iraq a year after my younger sister. - You were put in a role of caregiver too. - Oh, yeah. So, and it's like great. Did we have support from like in military bases and stuff? They make sure that there's people that like, you know, check up and stuff. But it's still on the whole kid. So like we just get like going out with your friend on the street. - Yeah. And you don't know what questions to ask. - Yeah. - You know, so you don't know what you don't know. You don't know how to ask for help. You don't know that you need help. - Exactly. - And it sounds to me like your parents wouldn't know how to identify if you needed help too. - Yeah. - Because they were just doing their best. - Mm-hmm. - And again, it's like, I think having so many siblings, it's like you're already kind of like silenced, or like not silenced, but you're just-- - No, you're silenced. You're silenced. You're taught. You're taught at a young age that your needs aren't already here. - Yes. - And don't get it twisted because, you know, there's four of y'all and I got it. There's not enough of me to go around. So y'all gonna have to help each other a little bit. - Oh baby, I know, I know. - Yeah. - You're silenced, and as you're speaking, I'm like hearing the emotional neglect. I mean, that's why you like, maybe I'm just a bad kid because this is the feelings that pop up, that fundamentally unlovable, I'm too much. I'm not enough. I take up space. Yeah. You are to be seen and not heard. That is the life that we've all kind of lived. Yep, 'cause I was like, you know, my mom needs us now. We have to, or we just have to... - Uh-huh, you felt pull it down. - Mm-hmm, yeah, and in some ways you were because mama didn't, she couldn't do all that, you know? And, you know, I don't know if you're just trying not to like talk shit about your mom or if you actually like hold space for, you know, whatever, either is fine with me on the space. - I mean, it's a mixture. Like, I mean, of course I'm always, this is part of growing older. Like, whatever, especially in being like a, whatever I am publishing here, I guess you call it with like modeling and stuff. But the point is it's like, I just want to speak my truth. And the point is, even if my family were to like hear this or something, it's just like, I don't know. I just feel like I love them and that is what it is, but I'm more worried about like sharing the truth and like, just being real with myself because I've spent a lot of time like, - No, so until they don't do this, they were raised this way. And I'm already, I'm always forgiving of those things. So if I'm hearing-- - Well, because you've learned very early to dismiss every feeling you have and to minimize it and to make it smaller than it is because you have to fit into a box. - Yes, and I've been very protective of everyone. And that's what I'm saying. Like, if I share something, it's still from a place of love because I've already done a role like-- - Yeah. I suck at it by now, fully. - Yeah, it's cool, you know. - Well, the problem I'm finding with myself and all the beautiful women like you is we are so fucking good. And I have a client right now that I'm not gonna say much about, but we're all so good at gathering all the tools, right? This person owns so many fucking self-help books. It's amazing. And then is like, but what do I do? You know, it's not helping. - Yeah. - Now I have more information. And I remember being at that point, not that long ago and being like, I know too much, I can't do it because like, I know it, but it's not working, but it was not, I really started hitting those wounds and being like, oh, I do have some real shit core beliefs about, for instance, if you listen to any episodes, you'll hear me kind of discover my perfectionist wound. I did not at all think that I had any perfectionist tendencies because I am fucking chaos and calamity at all times. You know, there ain't nothing perfect about shit. But like, and I've become so okay with that, outwardly and consciously. But when I started digging, I was like, oh baby, we, okay, we do have some perfectionist tendencies here. We got to work on that. And because being perfect, like I was thinking about this this morning, man, I never finished a full thought. I swear to God, this morning there was, you know, blow dry in my hair for you. I was like, trying to think about messaging that we give to our kids and my daughter's 10. And I was talking to my husband about her and I was like, she seems to be feeling particularly grown this morning, like just because the way she's sitting, she's a Gemini like me. So I fucking know this child inside and out. And I know when she's, what is the word like, romanticizing her life? I can tell when she's like sitting there in a story and like presenting, you know? I hope she never hears me say that because I don't want to embarrass her. But, you know, I could just tell she was like sitting there in a way and scrolling. She's 10, you know? And I was just like, okay, grown, okay. And I said, she shut the door for us this morning when she woke up because she didn't want to disturb us. And I think that's so sweet. And he's like, yeah, I was like, yeah, but you know, we got a quick compliment in her and shit like that because if we do, she'll never feel like she can be unsweet, you know? Like we're unkind and we're all fucking unkind all the time. Like we're humans, that's part of our condition. Bitch, if you have a moment, fucking have it and let's move through it. Like I don't mean to sit around hating herself over some shit like that, you know? - Yeah, yeah. - But just think about that messaging that we got. And my messaging was, you're such a good girl. You're so grown, you're such a good girl. You're just doing all the things. Okay, well, right then I was like, in this feeling, this acceptance, the only acceptance I ever get in my entire fucking life whenever I'm earning your love and your approval. Okay, this is it. I'm gonna hold on to it. - I just have to be perfect. - Yeah, so you're earning for that and that's what I've done with mine 'cause, oh my gosh, yeah, we'll get into that. But it's just like, I still as a grown-ass adult, I'm just like, I can see the things that I do that. I'm like, oh, I have to do this for my parents to love me. Like I have to be this way. If my dad's more money-driven, so if I'm telling him about a job, then he'll super, like, you know, I'll feel a little more- - You'll be improving you, yeah, I'll be proud. - Yeah, my mom is more like, what are you doing with like your talents and stuff? Like if I am doing a modeling gig, that's like really successful or something, then it's like, oh, that's my daughter and this and that or if I'm building more of my art business, then it's like, you know, that's when I feel the most valued. So anytime I'm still at 29 when I talk to her, I'm just like, you gotta like, it's like, to have a real conversation, gotta lead with something really good. Like it can't be anything. We don't talk about real feelings, like, you know. - So how's this, do you find that this translates into, I don't know if this is a connection that you've made yet, but I find that all of those things that we do with our caregiver, our authority figures, translate to our intimate relationships, and have you found yourself trying so hard to make that person that you're in a relationship with, proud of you, like if you identified that where you're like, I just, 'cause I actually have identified this not just with that, but like with my own kids. Like I had this, you met with my 21 year old one day and he said some hurtful shit, which it was like, all right. But I was trying to figure out why I let it hurt me so bad. Like, 'cause it was a thing that I didn't expect to be hurt by and I wasn't hurt by the shit that you would think I would be hurt by 'cause I could see what that was. I was like, okay, hey, I fucked you up a little bit. You're getting it out, but you know, I'm open to that. I know I fucked my kids up. I was emotionally unavailable. I get that, but I had to like, I talked to a friend to ground a little bit and then I was like, all right, I gotta figure out why the hell I got so upset. And I started crying 'cause I was like, he's not proud of me. It was the dumbest thing. - Oh, yeah. - No, it made sense. - It's just tuned for me, you know? - It made sense. - Do you have that with your partners? Like when you're in your relationship? - Oh my gosh, yes. Like it's like I'm always looking for approval through them or always trying to like, especially too because I feel like naturally sometimes, this is not even gassing myself up, but I naturally get praised just for being a kind person or being like, easy to talk to or whatever. - Genuine. - Yeah, genuine. So there's like, already that's what I met within the relationship. Like they almost like put me on a pedestal in a way. But then there's your partner. - Well, are you using you as your mother? - That, oh my gosh. And so that's gonna really help out a little bit. - I really hope I'll start listening to my podcast 'cause you're gonna fucking, when you hear shit, you're gonna be like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna do that. - I was into a full one and I literally was like, yeah, I resonate with a lot of this 'cause you were talking about something similar to what I was talking about now. But like, yeah, it's just always been that weird. It's like, I feel like when I show up in the relationship, they're like, oh wow, she's like, she doesn't think I'm a passenger. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And then I heard a girl think she's independent, she's blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that you're the perfect mother for them, honey. - Oh my gosh. - But you're doing the same thing, you're trying to get your parent approval through them. And it's actually, I don't know if you got to hear anything about me talking about with this mirror theory I have, but you're actually both doing the same shit. - Oh, for sure. - It's different. - Yes, it's all just trying to get approval, validation. And when I was able to like, now listen, I'm a fucking human, I'm always gonna be a human. But like, I can move through that moment and be like, and then all right, over here on myself, like, yeah, what was that, what was that? And then I'm like, oh, okay. So instead of like, if I was just trying to get approval from somebody, I will turn to myself and be like, 'cause I'll let it hurt me, you know, like they're not proud. And then I'll be like, okay, that's your inner child being that, what's this bad bitch need? Oh, okay, you need to feed yourself right now, which you, what are the things you know about yourself? You're a bad bitch, you are intelligent, you know, whatever it is, like, you know, within yourself, you are all the things you fucking wanna be. But until we really work on that inner child who's still begging, I mean, my parents are dead, but even beyond the grave, I'm over like, y'all proud? Like, I'm a fucking medium, and that was the only thing I cared about knowing, are my dead parents proud of me? Because that's what we do, we are never gonna stop seeking that approval until we learn to give it to ourselves, you know? - And that's where I am now, 'cause I'm at the most confident place I've ever been, but it's just more like now, 'cause I've done a lot of shedding of like even my own ego and like even just the whole thing of like, what I am expecting of people and why and what is, you know, all that. So, but it's still just like, it's so difficult because I'm like, it's been a cycle of like, people that I love, they view me, they see me, and they're like, you're really best, or like, we're really proud of you for this. I don't know, it's just like again, the pedestal thing. And then when I start showing raw emotions, or let's say they do something that is conflicting with like my, you know, my boundaries or whatever, it's like, I have to speak on it, but because I come off very like soft and bubbly and suck with, when other switches turn on, it's like, whoa, lose this. And then they're like, it's just always this thing where I'm met with like, it's like, you can't, it's like, you can't be upset. - You can't step out that box. - You can't step out that box. - We have you in a lane, you need to stay in it. - You need to stay in it. And also, we see that you're, it's like, we put you on a pedestal, but now we're gonna try and knock you off the pedestal because you believe you're those things. I can see that you believe you're those things. So now, I'm gonna start looking away at that. - Oh, I love your, your raising girl. You know where you're from, you better keep it real. - Oh, wow. - And it's all you know that it is, your parents are just afraid you're gonna leave them. You know, like emotional. I mean, they just need to deal with their own shit and you know that they ever will, but you know, when you can start to view the things they do through their wounding and you're like, oh. - Oh my God. - That's your heart, 'cause you're a human, but you can release it every time easier whenever it gets there, you know? - Yeah, yep. And just so it's not mine to carry all the time 'cause I was trying to figure out like, why are people treating me this way? - Why are you laughing or all the shit in my relationship? - Like what is it? And so then I was like, oh, there's something where it's like, there is a, even the thing, the sick thing is, you need to make sure you have confidence, but if you have confidence, people can also hate that and then they will attack it. So that's the whole thing. - I just can't. - I didn't understand that. - Yes, they will drive you into people's locus to you. - Yes, they will try to, I had everybody growing up, like family first would put smokescreen in front of me of just like, oh, you're not really that. And they would see that I am, like, let's say, me being an artist or something, or maybe that's not the best example. Okay, friends, since I got made fun of a lot for like my weight growing up and stuff, and imagine eventually I become a model, right? But growing up, I just, dead serious, did not know I was a pretty person until I was like 20 something, I don't know, like peril. Because that was- - Well, I believe that I was the exact same way. - Yeah, so it's just- - Yeah, I'm not a model, but, you know- - No, but still, it doesn't matter, you're beautiful. So it's like, it's just the part where people just spend so much time trying to like chip away at a person, and it's like- - Oh, what? - Like, so true. Oh, yeah, things like, you know, my master's degree is just a piece of paper. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You know, I'm not better than anyone. And in fact, my little brother, he's done, you know, just a very different life than me. Much better, much better. And he has a better heart. And I'm like, wow, you really fucking figured out the way to kill my spirit, didn't you? Because like, all of the other stuff, fine, but telling me I'm not a good person, like they're- - Oh, yeah. - There's no way to accomplish anything other than nothing if you're like telling me fundamentally at my core, I'm a fucking bad person, because I'm reactive to your narcissism. Oh, you know, you're weird that when I'm tired or hungry, I can't control my emotions. I'm a kid, bitch, you can't control your, you know what I mean? - Totally, yeah. - But like, I'm a bad person. Yeah, and that's even, you know, I made a post when I first started post on TikTok. 'Cause I don't, I don't like doing that. I don't, it's not, it feels fake. Some of it I've gotten used to, like if I'm just giving like a quick like, I've told a couple of funny stories I love doing that. And I don't mind doing a quick little thing, but at first it was, well, it was scary because I know that in my heart, I did the same shit when other people I knew were doing it, it felt cringing, you know? Now, I didn't like, I mean, I might have made fun a little bit actually if I'm being 100% authentic, but not like, not crazy amounts. Just like, but I remember thinking like, why does this, why do I give a fuck with it, you know? But whatever, then I knew how people react whatever when you start to do that. So I just made a post. I'm like, hey, I get it. When your friends start doing stuff that you're not used to, it's a little cringing, just know I'm cringing too. But go ahead on and share my experiment while you're cringing together. But if you could fucking support me while you're making fun of me, perfect. - Yes, but no, your family does the same shit. - No, really, they do, they do. And that's the hard part that I was just talking to my best friend about a couple of days ago. I'm like, it's weird because as much work as I've put into like becoming confident and making sure like I'm just going into, just being myself, honestly. - Yeah, yeah. - All of that being in public, whether it's on Instagram, TikTok, like you said, is how it goes awkward or cringy post and stuff. I've always been scared because of the people who chipped away at me for so much of my life, whether it's partners, relationship, or no, okay, partners, family, like, you know, people. But the point is it's like when I post, my first thought is like them in like their perspective, their perception, not even strangers. So, and that's the thing that's like, I just think it's so ironic that like, those are the same people that I look for the most, yeah, pool from, and it's like, but I get more support. - You're not getting it. - Yes, and it's now I'm getting so much more support from complete strangers. People that are just like, I don't know, just can be viewed from a different perspective. And then also it's like everything, 'cause I was taught growing up, families, everything, family, and like family, you know, and take care of your sisters, and like to the point where my parents are calling me and be like, have you talked to so-and-so and so-and-so, right, like, 'cause they just want me to have the scoop on my sisters at all times. And I get it from a parent perspective, and I'm like, I'm not a keeper, like I'm not. - I really am not, and that's not healthy boundaries. - Yeah, and that's your sisters tell you shit. - Oh my gosh, and that's not clear for like the longest, because my parents of course after 20 something years of marriage, and it was literally when I tell you, there was not a buildup where it's like, oh, my parents, I knew they were gonna break up, like no, this shit was random. - It was sudden, it feels like my life, still to this day, it happened in 2013. It feels like my life changed in a day like that. And that was just because of just poor decisions. Obviously, my mom said that at the relationship pretty much, and it just, it was just like a whole thing. But the point is, I've even got to a place of like, forgiving that whole, that whole situation, but through that, I became a parent in place of my parents, splitting up during my college years, I stepped in and took care of like my younger sisters, like as far as like taking them to a dance class or whatever they had going on, whether it's homeschooling, they used to have these little things they had to go to. I remember my, I'm in my second year of college, and I stopped and like, I couldn't even cope with anything for one, I was dead inside of my life. And on top of that, it's like you're thrown into parenthood, in a way, and granted both my parents, they're alive. And like, my dad was hands on and stuff, but at the end of the day, when that stuff was happening, they're both dead. - I mean, you are forced to be responsible, you are put in that period. And don't minimize it, Jayla. - No, I know, I know. - You're so good at that. And you, this is a lived experience that is worthy of attention. Like those things are real. And people get made fun of when they're adults and their parents get divorced, and they, you know, are affected by. But the thing is, is what people aren't knowing or realizing from the outside, looking into your particular situation is, with that lost wound being so big, it's open at all times, and rejection, and abandonment, all the things that you're constantly getting, and like, you never got to deal with them. So you fucking throw a divorce in there. - Dude, of course you've got down. - Yes. - You are just right. That brought up every ounce of fear you've ever had in your entire life. - Everything. And I've always said this, I think I told my dad, this like maybe earlier this year, last year, I was talking to him, and I said, the thing with that type of loss that happened, and even through my last relationship, which I won't go into too much, unless you want to, but anyways, even with that, it's like, those situations, those were like core hits because of my core, things that are important to me, which were, again, family was dug into me as a kid. I always, from when I was a child, I used to, like, I don't know why I would just pay attention to relationships between parents, family dynamics. I was just watching, like, marriages, how they work. Like, I would just, I was always aware. So those things became, like, they were valuable to me, and I was like, oh, I want to get married one day. Like, I had, it was hard, 'cause I was a little naive, and like, I grew up like, as a Disney channel kid, it's how you should imagine me. But just some very like, you know, like that. - Did you? - Yeah, like that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I mean, so much. - That punch from life, that specific punch from life, it, when I tell you it shut down everything, like, I was like, nothing is real. You can get abandoned. Your whole relationship with your mom can change. Your whole relationship with your dad can change. And it's just like, everything happened so fast. And then I was like, the way I would describe my role, 'cause I have an older sister, but I always say I act like I'm the oldest. No shade there, but I'm just more like, I don't know. I just do things, I don't know. But anyways, it's just in that time, like it's like, if I was felt like I was in the front of the war zone, like with like my younger sisters, like, let's say they needed therapy or whatever, like they didn't. Like it's like there was no therapist. So, and even if there was at a point, I think they may have had a therapist for a little bit. But like, I was the next best thing to keep them alive and like, keep them, you know? And then I couldn't even keep myself alive. 'Cause like, I remember at that same time, I'm going through my first relationship. And I'm probably two years into it and ended up being three years. But like, even just that whole thing, like happening at the same time, I was like, I'm in a relationship now. And then I'm looking at like my parents, just of course after 20-something years, my real relationship, it's looking like, it could fit, like it just changed everything. - Again, it brought up all those fears. In the same exact way, my dad overdosed and died when I was 15, it was very sudden obviously. But that was the first time that I was hit with, oh shit, okay. This is a thing that's gonna happen. Like this is the first of the rest of my life of losing. And I became very, like it triggered every ounce of my anxious attachment style right now. 'Cause it was angry. And I remember now that I understand my nervous system, I remember the switch and it becoming very sensitive. And like, becoming more reactive to people and things because I was just waiting to see who's next. - Yeah, so you're like something's gonna happen. - Yeah. - Like you literally just get, you get prepared for absolute like anything. There's no safety. - Yeah, people because they're like, okay, I never fucking wanna be blindsided like that again. - Yeah. - But I can sit around thinking of every bad thing that we'll probably go ahead on in happening 'cause now this is the life I have, then I can predict and go ahead and tell myself right now, no emotions, you know. - Yeah, yeah. - Available piece happens because it's too much. It hurts too much. - So it's like, turn it off. - Okay, yes. I'm so sorry. But what is your zodiac sign? - I'm a Libra. - Okay, I knew you were an air sign. Okay. What is your mom? - She's a Aquarius. - Oh, I knew it. - Two of my sisters are Aquarius's two and my dad's a cancer. - Finds are the most emotionally unavailable motherfuckers. - Yeah, but Libra's are the biggest people pleasers. - We are. And that's the most annoying thing in the world. I've had to harness that. Like I'm at the point right now. - You have to, because it's not real, Jayla. That's all things you're doing to try to earn love in the world and you know who you need to love you. - No, really. - Put that from yourself and you can't if you're giving every part of yourself away, you know. - And I've learned that it's like also two the things that I wanted so bad for all of my life. Like all that searching and yearning, trying to get accepted. I'm like, I naturally can get those things without even having to do all of that. And half these people I want approval from do not even deserve me hearing for their (laughs) It's like literally, and not even in like a, I'm better than them. It just literally- - No, you're saying. - It's like, I just, I'm like, I've been out here trying to, like, just my whole identity was in these people and like what I think of me, even still with the ripple effect of like my last relationship and the way it ended. It's like, because it was so abusive and psychologically thrilling, emotionally terrible. Like all the things, like the method is what I would really describe it as. It's just, because I've been a people who's in my whole life, and I went through my parents divorce and stuff, post my parents divorce, I did a lot of the work and like trying to figure out like, again, shut all of the bullshit. So shed the idea that just that, I don't know that everything has to have an answer, that so and so is this way and that's why this happened and just trying to figure it all out. I'm like, that was just messed up. This happened. Yes, people are people, people have their backgrounds, but you don't have to, like you don't have to make sense of it. So I've already got to a place where I'm like, if something bad happens and it hurts you, you can say that hurt, that sucks. I didn't need to be put in that position and that's it, right? And just stop it. Period, yeah. So I did that work, but then it's like when my wound opened up again, when I went through this last breakup, I'd say like, I have to remind myself constantly, like stop trying to like, make sense of it. Because it was so abusive and you try to make sense of some, like it's almost worse that it's so bizarre. Well, because it starts so covertly. Yeah. And so he really, they really hit you under the radar because he didn't see that coming, I'm sure, which I believe is sort of intentional. I think our spirit kind of recognizes things. So does our nervous system. So I think that we put ourselves with people to try to feed a certain need. And we can ignore things or justify things or rationalize things and oh God, I don't know if this is an air sign thing or just like my fucking Neptune placement, but damn, I will I idealize a person. So like I will see you not in, because my husband's always like, he doesn't say this anymore. But before, you know, me understanding all this shit, he'd always be like, you just choose the most negative perspective on everyone. Like you see the worst in people. And I'm like, first of all, fuck you. But second of all, I see the things that keep me safe. You know, like I'm an energy feller. So like if you come in my space and like, you give off something crazy, you're gonna go 'cause I don't need that shit. - Yeah, yeah. - And I don't need friends that badly to wear like, you give me the ick, you're gone. Like I need to give anyone chances. It doesn't fucking matter. I get to choose who I invite in my life. Not to get on with you, but that's the thing is we bring these people in and like start to put on our little rose colored glasses because we wanna ignore the red flags because we wanna confirm the shit narratives that we created in childhood. You know, I'm fundamentally unlovable. So I gotta get someone to go and make sure I know I'm fundamentally uncomfortable. - Yeah. - I'm too much. I'ma get someone who tells me how loud I am all the time. Thanks for my asking to do that. But you know, I do that to myself. And I started to say why, why, what is it about me that made me choose that? How do I hate in myself that made me get you? What am I trying to fix? - Yeah. - And I haven't been able to do that for every single thing I hate about somebody. - No, really. And that's helpful. And I think also it's good to look at like your own habits too, because for me, like I know even, okay. And I'll say something controversial in a way, but I would say that literally like, even like I was really into zodiac signs and stuff like that for a while. And you know, just really like, I'll say hyper sensitive of like just aware, right? And so it's like, I meet you. What's your zodiac sign? Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like this is this, this is this piece together. But the point is, even when you meet people like, let's say my dad, the cancer, my ex, and the cancer, right? Like those things like still as people, I had so many things that were like astronomically different. Like so different meaning like, this person was raised by this type of parent. And this type of person, or this person was raised by this parent, they had a lack of this or that, right? Almost, I almost messed myself up by going into it, thinking about it so like, like zodiac wise, because I'll just say this. If you obsess over anything too much, you can, you can end up in a cycle of like just like, it's like almost like, I'm going to call it psychosis. But the point is, - No way. - No way. - That's true. - No. - You really can't. - Yes. - I am a thousand percent into astrology and like believing it really too crazy amounts a little bit. - Yeah. - But also, my horoscope constantly warns me because of where certain placements are like, hey, you have the potential to be crazy. So don't go crazy. - Oh, okay. - And the thing people don't think about is like, think about it. Each of us, let's say you have two, again, two zodiac signs that are the same side by side. They're from two other zodiac signs. And then they are from two other zodiac signs. - Yes, because you really can't try. - You didn't go deep into the astrology apparently because your sunshine really doesn't say that much about you. - Right. But not even, no, but I know all that too. But I'll just say like, even that's what I'm saying, the branches of how far it can go, all of that can keep you messed up because you can never really-- - No. - You can only go so far with like even a person, like let's say you're dating somebody, right? Or let's say you dissect everyone's charts around you, right? Either way, it's like, there are things that are going to be completely, they're both sides-wise, whatever's on their chart, and they could just be that so crazy for you. They could also just be-- - Yeah. - Yes, but if you go, like, that's what I'm saying. In my case, I was almost on a state of psychosis where I was like, you know, well, my dad is this way and like this and that. - He's just just, yeah. - Yes, and like they have some-- - Yeah, because you knew you did too rationalized, justified and minimized. - Yes, and so that, and then same thing with like, again, if I have a mom that's in a crisis, who's sisters that are in Aquarius, and they're always growing up, they're like, yeah, we're like, and we're similar, and we're the same 'cause we're so this, right? But I'm looking at them, I'm like, y'all just have like, it's like true, but there's more to it, like, you know? And that's fair, but the point is, my biggest point is like, for me, I know that that kept me in a cycle, which is crazy. It did keep me in a cycle because there's things about my dad where I can like look at him and like, understand him as a person, but there's, obviously I have a healthier dynamic with my dad, like not that I'm gonna compare these two things, but like with my dad, which it was a woman, like, it's like with her, she, it was just, there was a different element of like, toxicity there, like where I was like, I still love this person, I see there are similarities, there's things there, but I was almost attaching too much to that person to the front row, like, she could care about me the same way that my dad does in this way, and it's like, the low key, she doesn't have the boy. - I wish she was a cancer. - She was a cancer, yeah. - Okay, so really, okay, I can see like that. - Yeah, I see exactly what you're saying. You're like, oh, but you can also see what you were searching for there. - The daddy thing, the, yeah, all that stuff. So I, and that's what I'm saying, like even that, and then I saw that relationship and that person, it mimicked my relationship with my mother even, and it's like, that naturally happens, we know that in relationships sometimes, but it's just, it's different whenever you are in an abusive cycle with your family, and you don't wanna call it that, but that's what it was, or there's certain things and it's just like, it's like, oh, this makes sense how I attracted this person, like, I don't look back and I'm like, they're not like, I look back and I'm like, oh, I should've really just been aware of this and that. I'm like, I see exactly how I ended up with that person, and I see the mask they wore, it's the same mask that I feel like a lot of the people around me have worn, and then on top of that-- - Angelia, you're gonna start to realize, we're all the same. We're all doing the same thing, she just looks different. - Literally us, and that's why I'm so glad for myself that I like, it doesn't actually do the same, where she's like, you just think you're so perfect, mobile, I'm not your biggest flaw. My whole thing was, I'm like, you don't even understand, I studied my dark side, I'm like, I am awake, even growing up, I'll say I thought I was all like, Kylie and QT and stuff, and I will say, I was a pretty, like, if there's a pure kid out there, pure, whatever that is, I was pretty straight and narrow, and like I really wanted the best. - I am. - Yes, but like, when I started getting older and I saw like, oh, I can be kind of like an asshole, I can be very blunt, I can be very, like I can cut deep with my words, but I saw that, it's like, anybody's gonna go into that and you know like, oh, this is like my-- - Yeah, you're not perfect, yeah. - You see, when I hear that, I don't hear that she actually thought you thought you were perfect, I hear I'm not good enough for you. - Yeah, I'm scared you're gonna leave me when you realize I'm a piece of shit. - Mm-hmm, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. - I'm gonna cut you away, and I'm gonna cart you out to be what makes me feel safe. - Yes, and when you have an abandonment wound mixed with people pleasing class, and you have somebody who's sitting there telling you that they will, whether it's in their life or if you leave them, or whatever, or threatening you like in that way, in a trigger thing where it's like, oh, I remember, like my brain goes immediately into like, when my dad went through the divorce, like I remember how like broken he was, and I just, I just remember that, and then I remember like my mom, and how she was after the divorce, and it started to become this thing where it's like, oh, like I can actually like harm someone by stepping away, like, and even if I'm validated in stepping away, I was like, I could hurt someone by doing what's best for me. And so it would just show you this thing, and then I would be in the cycle of like, like because for instance, I left my relationship like very abrupt on a weekend. Like it was urgent, my therapist was in the face and was like, you need to leave your relationship. Like you need to, she's like, I don't normally tell people this, but you need to make a silent escape plan and lead. So I did it, but that's not my normal because again, I'm a people pleaser. I will save somebody and I will be like, you know what? I see you, you know what your dad dies in this year, or you went through this and you have this challenge, and I'm trying to make sense of it. - You're just justifying their behavior because ultimately what we're actually trying to do is protect ourselves from losing another thing. I don't want you to leave my life, even if I know you're toxic. I want you to go away for now because I know that that's not good for me, but don't fucking think for a minute, I'm not over here for the whole rest of my goddamn life, holding space for hope that you are going to get your shit together and something in my life. Now, it's not like an everyday thing, but when the thoughts of that person or those people or whatever pop up, I'm like, okay, one day they're gonna have their shit together and then we can be friends, or have whatever relationship we used to have, but I mean, I don't do that with everybody because I'm a Gemini, so I can cut your ass off and that'll be that if that's, 'cause like, I wounding, I went from very anxious attachment to the disorganized attachment because of so much rejection from the anxious, so my lost wound got bigger and my rejection wound got bigger. So I'm really just trying to avoid rejection and loss at all times. So that's what people pleasing is, it's to get other people to perceive us in a different way. We like to believe that it's because we're good people and because we want to help others and whatever. It's just the way that ourself is. It is, it absolutely is, and whenever I learned that, I was the shame I felt for how fucking manipulative I was all those years up until like my 30s. I was like, oh, and I'll even say now, yeah, sometimes I'm intentionally manipulative, but I try to never use those skills for evil. I only use good, you know, but it's a thing. And when you are not aware of these patterns, you just continue to repeat them. - Yes, and you can just be a loose cannon 'cause the thing is we all have manipulative ways to us. There are things that we're going to act out and it's not always, like it's not like we're controlling it or it's for bad or for good even all the time. Sometimes we just are protecting ourselves and it is-- - Acting on a pulse. - Right, so it is a form of manipulation, but there are things that it's like, in a way, there are certain things we are supposed to do because we need to protect ourselves from certain things or we are supposed to-- - Absolutely. - Yeah, so it's like, but there's a level of like, you have to find this piece in the middle with it, but I definitely know, like I have really been more towards the anxious attachment style, which is annoying, but I teeter chatter between that and emotionally unavailable because once you like do me like really long or something like that, look to the other side and I'm like, I don't care, like it's weird. I have this thing where it's like, I have enough grace where you can work through it or whatever, but I'm also just like, there's a part of me where I'm like, no, like even if you do it, it's like, I don't know how to describe it, it's weird. 'Cause I can-- - No, I get it. - That's what disorganized attachment is. You go back and forth, once you fear the loss of this person or they hit this spot, that's like, oh, that's the center of all my fear. - Yeah. - That's when I can shut the switch off, I find my disorganized attachment comes up the most if I feel rejected 'cause I really do have rejection sensitivity, but when I start to feel expectations from somebody. - Oh, yeah. - That hit me in a place that maybe I feel like I'm not good enough or need enough general to be able to meet these needs. I do this with my own kids. This is something that I've learned that I'm very dismissive of them sometimes, mostly the youngest, because I in myself, I'm like, what if I can't meet her needs? So I'm just like, I'm gonna try. You know, like-- - Oh, yeah, yeah. - I really struggled with, and so I've noticed that in some friendships, like, hey, well, you're just asking a little team matching me right now. And so, you know, and it's not them asking for anything unreasonable or unhealthy, but for whatever reason, the dynamic is giving me the it. And I can't-- - Yeah, like it's lit. - And it goes off and I can't fucking turn it back on unless you completely ignore me for like a week or two weeks, and then my anxious attachment gonna come in like-- - It's like back. - And then it's like, wait, I hear it. - Do you dare miss me? 'Cause I hear you, are we-- - Right, right. - Maybe then, wanna hang out? You know, like, but that's what it takes. You have to trigger that for me to ever want to be in space with you again. - Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm gonna ask you. How do you handle whenever, let's say you're in the wrong or something, or you do someone wrong, right? - Yeah. - And you recognize it, or I don't know if you've ever been in this situation, but if you've hurt some of my life really bad, right? And you recognize it, you're like, okay, whatever, right? But it's still, it's too much. It's too much emotionally, 'cause I know you're saying, you said like you can be emotionally unavailable, right? When you feel like it's too much, is there a point where you can turn it off, but then it pops back up? Is that what you're saying about like the anxious attachment, when it-- - Well, the anxious attachment will make it reappear, but, or are you more like avoidant where it's like, I just don't wanna deal with it? - I'm both, honestly. - Yeah. - I shut it off, because there's fear there. You know, it's different now than like a year ago, because my language is different. So before it would've been like, hey, when you do this, I'm hurt because, but I've got a lot of weight on them. But now it's like, hey, I know, please hear me when I say, like this is not about you. And I'm not talking about crazy shit. It's not just your normal everyday shit, 'cause I mean, I'll be reacting to everybody, okay? - Okay. - Okay. - I'll be like, okay, hey, I'm so sorry, but when this happened, it triggered this wound in me, and my core belief around that is this, and I didn't catch it fast enough that it popped up, and so I react really strongly to you. And like, I'm really sorry. So I am not emotionally unavailable in situations like that. - Yeah, that's cool. - Yeah, I'm just trying to protect myself, you know? You're trying really hard, because I don't wanna continue these patterns. I've, you know, I lost a lot of friends this last year because I realized that who I put myself in, like I surrounded myself with emotionally unavailable people, but people with chaos, because they needed me. They, I ground them. I could shine my life whenever I got into a mental health crisis, and I needed help. I needed someone to meet me in the dark. All these people were so used to my light. They didn't know how to sit with me in the dark. - Oh, really? - And more did they fucking care to if we're being honest, because I realized how many people, not using me, this was just the dynamic. Like they, I inserted myself very strongly from day one as like, I'm your girl, you need me, I'm all alone. You know, whatever. Well, I just wanted someone to listen, you know, just once, if we could just talk a little bit about how I want to kill myself, that would be so good. - No, really. - They were like, oh, that's real, that's real. Stop saying that. That's what they would say. Cause I'd be like, I don't know. Like for a minute, I thought I might have cancer cause some weird shit was happening. I was like, I kind of, I'm not going to the doctor cause I hope it just takes me out. And then I don't have to feel guilty for killing myself. So, you know, don't stay there. - Yeah, that looks like. - This is why I'm saying it. Cause I'm fucking tired of you telling me not to. - Yeah, you're like, these are real emotions though. So, yeah, that's, that's something I could relate to. Just being a, that's, I've been that so many times just being the person that everyone else goes to or whatever. And then when the, when the tables turn, I was like, oh, I don't know how to be there for you because you have purposely chosen people that would need you for the things that you felt worthy to be in their life. - Yeah, and it's like there's a level of like, I mean, there's a real part of us that wants to help other people, but there's also part of us at once. We feel validated through those experiences too. - Absolutely. - And so there's like that, but then it's also like, with those things you're meeting people that are not even equipped to meet you where you are. - Like they don't have to be close. They don't have the capacity to show up for you. And I was giving some of those allowances until it got really some bad shit happening. I was like, okay, the switch is flipped. And it's like turning it back on. I think I still check in with myself, even with new learning. I'm like, okay, with the things that we know now, how do we feel about those? Like should we try to repair it? No, I didn't do that. That wasn't me, I'm not doing it. Like I'm not. - Yeah. - They did that, not me. And I did try in the middle of that. And then when it got really shit, I was like, baby, you know, we don't even fucking need friends this bad. Like it is not that serious. Like let the shit go and move on. But I was always, that's where my anxious attachment really gets me. I don't want to let go permanently of anyone. - Yeah, yeah. - Anyone. I'm like, they don't get me right back over here. Like, do you think that was the right decision? But see, some of that is because we don't trust ourselves because we betrayed ourselves too many times. And when you are put in the position to make parental decisions at too young of an age and your emotional needs are not tended to. So you're, especially as a Libra, you're in your brain trying to figure it all fucking out by yourself. Okay, how good do you think a child is gonna be at figuring shit out? Not great, not even enough to get where you are now, which tells me you're a fucking badass bitch, you know? But little baby Jayla, she probably was kind of stupid emotionally. - Yeah, I was like, what is this? - Yeah, and that's why you sat there that day going, maybe I'm just a bad kid, you know? 'Cause you did normal human shit and it wasn't validated as such. And so you're like, I mean, I'm pretty fucking fundamentally unlovable over here. So, you know, I was always like, I'm just too emotional. And my parents would always say like, you're just dramatic and that's not. So I literally was like, I'm just a dramatic kid. Still to this day, that is my biggest thing that haunts me is I'm like, I'm too sensitive. I know too much about what's going on and like, my surroundings, so I'm always just trying to be like, oh, to be normal, I have to not care as much about everything. - That's because like your mom, I can see where she tried in your childhood to do it differently than what was done for her, but she doesn't have a single fucking clue about feelings. - Oh, no. - Like-- - And it makes sense 'cause her mom did not give her that. - Right, Aquarius is have very deep mother wounds. So my husband's an Aquarius, God, he's such a sweet and ass. Well, of course he is, I picked the dismissive avoidant. I mean, when I say dismissive, this motherfucker, he can shut down, so I mean, this is my second marriage. I'm sure we're surprised that I'm so good at relationship. But I was like, damn, like, you really fuck, man. You really can just go away, you know? Like, I don't have to feel a damn thing, but he was one of those people, this seems to be very common in this age group, especially Aquarius, but I hear them say very stoic, very like, no, you get to choose what your feelings are and nobody else is in charge of your feelings. So like, I didn't hurt your feelings, you let your feelings get hurt. And that is if they are even willing to discuss feelings at all, but they're very stoic, just very like, hey, you're in charge. And if you're a strong woman, then you're gonna roll your feelings and you're gonna, you know, boss up and blah, blah, blah. - No, really? - Now, I'm like, no, I'm not too much of anything, you know? Like, that's the thing that I'm doing the very most of is standing in exactly who the fuck I am. And I am worthy of taking up as much space as I fucking need, whatever that means for me. And that's why, I don't remember if I sent this to you, I sent it to a few people the other day, but that's why I'm trying to do different with my daughter. And so I'm like, hardcore hitting on the, it's not your job to be polite strangers. It's not your job to make sure that people in the room feel comfortable. How are you? How the fuck are you feeling? If you don't want to say thank you, that the, you know, boomerass have to compliment how pretty you are and you don't want to say thank you, fucking keep walking, I don't give fuck, you know? Like, let's stand in our power and our power says, I get to choose how I expend any of my energy because every part of me is worthy and valuable. I don't have to do any part of me because I really am embracing human nature that we truly are designed to be fuck ups so we can figure out how we're fucking up and how to do better and then take that out to the world and help others figure their shit out. And that's why I'm starting to kind of feel like we really are kind of all connected and trying our best to heal and it looks different for everybody. And I mean, I don't want to justify people's behaviors just because I understand why it happens. So I'm not going to tolerate past a certain point of like a level of toxicity, but if you're in my life, like my husband, you know, he can trigger something really quick and I can be like, okay, let me back up. What just happened was, but he does that for me so easily now even though he was very literally the, well, maybe not the most emotionally unavailable person 'cause I think my grandma might've gotten that title, but you really didn't understand any of it because he believed everything's a choice. And now the other day he was like, I get it. You know, it all happened fast. You had some expectations and then you blah, blah, blah and I'm like, thank you because that's what I'm trying to do with the people who are worthy in my circle, but everybody gets access to that, you know, like I get to be emotionally available to myself first. So even if I know maybe this wound was triggered and whatever and it's not that serious and I'm able to like release it and move on, that doesn't mean that that's the energy I need to keep letting back in, you know, making friends even, whatever the case may be, new business partnerships, all of those things. Like I am learning to stand in my own truth and my intuition and be like, well, it really doesn't matter. Maybe I just don't like them and that's okay too. I don't have to. - Yeah, and that's a key part that's been standing out to me is like we also need to just position ourselves around people that make sense of where we are because there's a lot of things that I think people, that's where we go wrong sometimes. It's not like we can't be around people that are not like you or a lying idea or whatever. It's just like, you also just don't have to be close to everybody. You don't have to put up with certain things. It doesn't matter what their role is, how long you've known them. You literally can reposition people and then just like move forward as who you are, whether you're super sensitive, whether you're avoidant and working through it. If you feel like you, I don't know, it's like you just need to surround yourself with, not people like you, 'cause we do need people that are different from us, just like make sure you're around people that are healthy at the court, like healthy and who are being healthy in the way of like not I do everything right or I'm like super nice or kind or I'm always whatever the thing is, right? It's not that, it's just healthy. Like I'm healthy enough to be myself authentically and I'm not destroying people in the process of that. And if I am, I'm smart enough to step away. Like if I'm not at a place where I can be my best self, I can just pull back and not be around whoever's triggering that out in a worthwhile way. - Yeah, because sometimes, you know, because if we use our triggers as teachers, then eventually you will get to a place while you're understanding why this is being triggered. Sometimes that leads to a closer relationship with that person and sometimes that means we can't put a little extra space between us. - Yeah, that's great. And even if it's your family, it's been pointed out one day because I was struggling with like, how do we, how can I be really close to somebody who just doesn't understand me as a person in this, if this part, they don't see this and whatever and he's like, honey, you know, this work that you're doing has shown you that everybody can't be everything. That's the reason we have a village, you know, but like, understand the box that people are in and don't try to make them be something that they don't have the capability to be and like, yes. But whenever I learn too between a wound and a need, a poor belief and feeling versus a need, any of those things, that really helped me because I'm like, is it a need or was I just triggered? Because in consistency and unreliability are a really big deal to me. But if I can understand it from like a systems perspective and I go, well, we just need like, we just got to get like more reminders or an assistant or a housekeeper or whatever the case may be. And I'm not emotional or assigning a moral value to the situation. There's not a fucking need there. The need is I need this done, but there's no fucking emotional shit that I need to get out of that. But the long I tied so much emotion because I didn't know how any of that was affecting me. I didn't understand that I had this betrayal wound. And so any time someone doesn't follow through with something that they said they were gonna do, fuck that shit hits deep. I just experienced this day and I'm like, I fucking know better and that's the thing. The more tools I have, the more information I have, the more hard on myself I am. - No really. - No better, like you know better, get your shit together, whatever. And I'm like, no, no, no, honey, you're doing that thing you do. We're not gonna discuss this. We're gonna say, what am I feeling? I'm feeling real betrayed and I'm disappointed and I'm just upset about that. And I have a right to and I'm not ready to release it. So I'm gonna let it sit for a little bit and I'm gonna feel it. And then whenever I'm like, all right, it's no longer serving me. I'm gonna go ahead. That doesn't mean that with that person that I'm not gonna move a little differently from now on 'cause I am because I don't, I first of all, I got way too much going on to even let people who don't know how to follow through with what they say they're gonna do orbit my space too much. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Doing it. - Just for instance, again, 29 years old. I was going to book a trip to Columbia from my birthday with my sisters and I was going to make it like a whole sister trip with some friends. More of the story fell through. My sisters kind of backed out on me. My dad, I told him about it. He was gonna, he was actually gonna come to Columbia committed to it or like told me about it. Like told me a yes basically that he would be there and I was shocked about that. 'Cause I'm like, you know, inner child, but he's like, yay. Like, you know what happened? - Oh my god, one sister's, yeah. So then I got a yes from him. But then by the next conversation, I guess he was just in a different mood or headspace and also maybe he just like, I don't know, we'll cook with someone else in his mind. But I feel like by the next conversation, he was like, well, I'm just a little bit worried about like your finances. And I mean, he was like, you just need to think things through before you like book stuff and like, I don't want to make you feel like you need to cancel your trip. I don't think it's the best idea. So imagine going from a yes to that. In that 20s I think yes, criticizing me. And then also, 'cause he was like, you know, it just seems like you always need help and stuff. And you know, you just need to get to a place where you're like, you're financially good or whatever. All the point is I live in one of the most expensive states. I've been independent before ever since like 17 years old. I've been moving literally, I live in 27 different homes. And so that is like at 29, that's a lot of life that I've lived in, there's been a lot of challenges and it's a miracle that I'm even alive. So on top of all of those things, and I will not say he's not, he hasn't been a help. He's been a huge help. But I will say, I'm not the kid that's like, hey, help me, like you're my bank. Like I'm not even like that. If I ever ask for help, I guarantee you I need it, that. And so anyways, that whole conversation created shame. And then I was like, great, like not doing good enough. At that time, I'm working two jobs. And I'm also like, I've breached levels of success that everyone's been proud of and stuff and whatever. But it's like, it's not even about that. It's just the point where it's like, you just, you'll seek that validation. And if your parents don't know that you're looking for that or even if you, they just haven't looked on themselves is my point. Like my dad doesn't know that that conversation, it literally threw off so much for me mentally. I'm like, great. So he doesn't think I'm just doing well. - Right. He's saying. - Yeah, but you know what I hear? I hear his own shame. I hear him, I hear a fear in him. Like what, so if the thing in you is that he's pointing out is he's worried about your financial decisions. Something about him was worrying about his financial shit. - Yes. He didn't want to tell you, maybe he couldn't afford it right then or whatever the case was. That was about him, but he made it about you. - Yeah. - And that's what I'm trying not to do with my kids anymore. - Yes, yes. 'Cause it really becomes a projection. 'Cause it's like, at the end of the day, by that conversation, I understood like, if he can't come, he can't come. So it wasn't even about that. But I was more like, it's the part where it's like, there's this umbrella of like, oh, you're just not where you need to be now. I'm like, I want all of my kids to be... - Yeah. - It's like, I want all my kids to be good. And it seems, and he's like, I want you guys to have houses and stuff. And I'm like, I'm not thinking about that right now. I'm just trying to get out of the country for my 30th birthday because I was in a relationship where I almost died. So... - Right, exactly. 30 is a big deal. You should be able to celebrate that however you want. Absolutely. And sometimes we're gonna make irresponsible financial decisions. - Right. And then you just recover. - Yeah. - Yeah. I mean, I'm working on financial peace right now while I'm poor. Because, you know, I just learned that I do a lot of dumb shit when I'm bored. And so that is, I love clothes so much. And jewelry, I love them so much. You wouldn't know that because my summer uniform has been exactly what I'm wearing today, which is just like this cheap ass tank top from Walmart. That are also cheap from Amazon every day of my life this summer. Or you sometimes out there a little skirting, you know. - Mm-hmm. - I've been up to where it's fucking hell. So like, I got to be comfortable, you know? - Yeah. - But, for real, like I've done some real dumb shit financially. And I've always known that it was self-solved sabotage but I didn't understand why. I didn't know why. And figuring that out has been very helpful. And I was just telling Brian last night, like, okay. 'Cause things like all the shit I've been wanting is happening. I'm attracting the things I want, you know? So they're coming in and I'm getting private practice clients and shit. And it's like, this is it. Things are happening. But I remember telling myself two months ago when I was really afraid 'cause I was still getting like income from my last job. And so I was like, okay. Now is the time to get your shit together so that you can be the person who can attract prosperity and know what to do with it. Make my money work for me, you know? Like instead of just, I got a dime, I'm gonna spend it because, you know, they're very cute. And they are cute, they're so fucking cute and I want them to have another tattoo really fucking bad. - Right. - No way, I'm not gonna do it. I'm like, nope, when you get to this point, then you got to. And I used to do things like that with like weight loss, you know? (indistinct) - Don't give a fuck about any of that. I just want to do things that are good for me. I don't wanna harm myself. I don't wanna harm others, be authentic. And I wanna be smart. So I'm trying to like make better decisions for myself. But whenever people tell me shit like that, my husband's one of the people that can cut me to my core with any talk about financial stuff. And that's why I've started to realize so much of my self-worth and value was kind of tied in to status. And income. And I've been trying to figure out like, does anybody else do? Obviously they do. I see it in friends where they gotta have the latest greatest best. I get that. And anyone who drives a fucking Tesla. - Right. - You know what I mean? - Yes. - I'm so sorry everyone, but they're kind of shit cars. And so that tells me how much status means to you, which is not a judgment. It's just a point of fact. But being unemployed or self-employed, what does that mean to me and my value? Because over here, it's very dual for me, because in one way I feel so fucking good about what I'm doing, you know, like with this podcast and just all the other shit. But until an income started coming in, I was like, can I feel good about what I'm doing? If it's not tied to me, how do I feel if I'm not earning money? You know? And I've been trying to like, I think that there's some real deep shit there that I haven't been able to uncover yet, because it's not popping up. I'm trying to figure it out, but it's not like coming to the surface the way other things have. Some things have related to this, you know, self-worth being tied to finances, but mostly not. And I'm sure that's 'cause I'm so fucked up in other areas that you need attention first. But I've been trying to figure out every way in which I've told myself, I wasn't worthy or valuable of something. And I knew it was one of those ways. And like what now that I'm getting paying clients, I'm more worthy? No, 'cause it's like you're doing the same thing you were doing before. Like if you were already successful by doing it and like valuable. - Yeah, 'cause that's a funny shit that's happened with me too. It's like what even little things, like when I got signed as a model and stuff, like my family was so excited and stuff. But now it's, I remember like the years, 'cause I'm modeled for eight years and then got signed. So anyways, more of the story, it's like anything before that and even after, it's like, if I'm like, oh, I got a gig, it's like my dad will be like, well, is it paid? Or like, you know, like that's always the thing. It's like, it's like, if you're getting paid for it, like cool. And like it's not, then like, why are you doing it? Which I understand the logic of that. But it's also just like, everything isn't so money-driven. And then until I got, I don't know, it's just interesting. It's like how people, their perception- - Yeah, yeah, 'cause it gets in your own head. It's like, it doesn't really matter, but- - Well, that's what's been so cool about unraveling the shadows of shame. Because once you figure it out in yourself, when people are talking, you're gonna be like, that's your royal. - No, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you're like that now. I'm still with it now. - Yeah, like every time they talk, I'm like, oh! - I'm like, that's huge. You have to work on yourself, honey. But even, yeah, I was thinking about this the other day. So I have, I'm a panel speaker in a really big symposium coming up. And I'm really proud of it, but it's not made. And so I'm not as proud of that, even though I very much should be as a different thing that I have lined up that's gonna be paid. And I'm like, stop it, bitch, because this isn't the life you want. I, yes, I want abundance and I want prosperity 'cause I feel like I deserve them. I've put a lot into this world and I deserve the karma back as I was put through some real shit. So my ceramic rewards better fucking come in quick. But I think I'm being shown this part of me now so that I can do things because it's an alignment with my purpose and my passion. And those things are my north. That's what I want to do. I want to be a light to others in their dark. I've always wanted that. I just want to in return too, a little reciprocity, you know. But I want to do things because it feels good and not because it's tied to an income. 'Cause shit, some of you lead to something crazy big if you just say yes to the opportunity. But you cannot be driven by like everything being, like there's a reward. Yeah, there's a visible reward or emotional. Like, I mean, really the best thing should be that you're fulfilled in what you're doing. 'Cause people don't realize that's what happens when you're doing something that's authentically what you're supposed to be doing. It's going to happen regardless. Like we could hope for wish for whatever. It's just going to happen though. Like if it's-- If it's supposed to be, it will be. Yeah, and it's like the value aspect is just a matter of who you're dealing with and what you do, success as if you do anything else. But-- Absolutely. Well, I've kept you for a while, so I'm going to wrap this up. I appreciate you so much. This was so much fun. It was fun. I want to be able to tag you. Are you on Facebook? I am on Facebook. I don't really use it. OK, I can obviously tag you and you just share whatever for yourself so that you can get that out to your market too. But I will tag at least in a story or something. Yeah, that sounds good. I loved this. I would be more than welcome for you to sign up again sometime if you ever want to. Yeah, I have time. So whatever works for you works for me. And, yeah, it will air on Wednesday. You're the best. Well, have a good week. Thank you, YouTube. Have a good week. Bye. You too. Bye. [MUSIC PLAYING] Emotionally unavailable. Hey, hey, hey, what do you say? Listen. First and foremost, please make sure that you have provided this podcast with a five-star rating on whichever platform that you are listening. If you want to support the show, please rate, like, and share. Also, like, comment, and share on any social media posts that you see for me on Instagram or Facebook or TikTok. Please follow the podcast Facebook. Emotionally unavailable podcast. You can shop my foot online, store, or schedule a one-on-one with me emotionally unavailablepodcast.org. I'm offering what I'm calling non-traditional counseling, astrology readings, and tarot readings, and self-policing services. And thank you so much for listening to the emotionally unavailable podcast. [MUSIC PLAYING] Emotionally unavailable. OK, that's it. I hope you liked that conversation between me and Jala. And, like I said, hope you guys are doing well. And until next time, let's all just keep swimming. [MUSIC PLAYING] Emotionally unavailable. I-N-D-E-P-E, and cut.