Monsters Up North Podcast
Monsters Up North - PSYCHO
It's a perfect night for Mr. Ian Holland. The air itself is filled with monsters. Children of the night. What music they need. It's a knife! It's a knife! It's a knife! Well hello all your monster fiends and thank you for joining us for another deep dive after I filled episode exploring Hollywood's most famous monsters. I am your mistress of ceremonies, Sam. And I am joined, as always, by Dan from Lead Mother's. Say hello, Dan! We all go a little bit mad sometimes, don't we? Oh yeah! Once again, I'm gone. Each week. Do you not do it next week? You don't know. You don't know what I'll do. No, I don't. That's the scary thing. I don't know what you'll do. But I know what we're talking about tonight. Hi everyone. Welcome to a new episode of the Monsters of North podcast. Oh, today we are checking in. To one of the greatest moretales and what's my favourite is probably Dan's favourite as well. Moretales of all time. We're doing psycho. Yeah. Yeah, that, that. We're not doing the remake. That didn't happen. We're not even, that didn't happen. I'm a hatcher's butt hole. I'm not, we discussed the same thing. I know that. No, no one hatcher's butt hole. The hatcher's butt hole may she rest in case. Literally. And so what I'll do is, I will do as I always do over in the disclaimer and then we're going to crack on open. Psycho. Actually, I can't believe it's taken us. There's an amount of time to do cycle. Correct. It's an obvious choice. What is it? And we're going through shit and we're like, Oh God, you know, we've done so many. What can we possibly do? Oh my God, we've got like this list of other films that are so obvious that we've not even touched yet. And we're like, how have we not done that? How have we not done that? Do you know what it is? The blob changed everything. Blobs, flops, blob. Right. Well, everything discussed in today's episode is our opinions and our opinions alone. If you'd like to discuss anything from today's episode of police, come and join us on our Facebook pages. You can join us on the Nerdy of North Discord or the comment section where we can have an open discussion. But what we want to have is anyone coming for us and tell us our opinions are wrong because we can all agree to disagree in horror. So let's keep it fun. Keep it kind and keep the toxic behavior out of an Buddhism. I don't be magic. Or not today or a woman. Anyone of them will do anyone. Well, cycle is the 1960 American horror film. I don't know why I've put American horror film don't ask us. Producing directed by Alfred, oh sorry, Sir Alfred Hitchcock. The screenplay written by Joseph Stefano was based on the 1959 novel of the same name by Paul Bock. The film stars Anthony Perkins, Janet Lee, Vera Mills, John Gavin, and Martin. The screen masters of the screen master of suspense movies. What? Hold on. The screen master of suspense moves his camera into the icy blackness of the unexplained unexplained. Why can't I say unexplained? Are you such a dramatic queen wasn't he? I'll do a hitch cut. Yeah, this film just proves at all. But even in the way he did the the promotions for this movie, I don't know if you read about that, like how he, he wouldn't, what he did actually started a snowball of events, but he put a big ego. But even in the way he did the promotions for this movie, I don't know if you read about that, like how he, he wouldn't, what he did actually started a snowball of events, but he put a big ego. He had every cinema, have a big cobble cut out of him in the lobby. And it would say on this cobble cut out that once you were admitted, you couldn't come out. And also, if you turn up late, you weren't allowed in, and he'd have records playing in the lobby saying 10 minutes to psycho, 5 minutes to psycho, 3 minutes to psycho. And inevitably what that ended up becoming is, it started cinema times where a film started and a film finished and you could leave before you could turn up in the middle of a film and stay all the way through to the next film and not vacate your seat. And this was like Hitchcock's kind of inadvertently started this weird chain of events that make cinema go as like we do now it's bizarre. It's crazy the snowball effect that it had, but who does he remind you of when it comes to the promotion of this movie? Our friend William Castle. Yes, I mean it's to a certain degree. Yeah, I mean I will say that theatrics are there. But Hitchcock is just too serious. Castle thought everything was fun. Hitchcock took this to the extreme to the point where he didn't allow the actors to even have a script. He would give them sections of it until they film the whole thing. So, the acting in this movie is incredible, no one the fact that they never read a script beforehand. Yeah, and it all had to be like edited together because I think it started. They started filming in something like I want to say it was either September, November sometime around then in 1959 and it was fully edited and ready to go in by the April of 1916. Now I don't know what month it was released in, but it was fully edited and fully done by then I mean it ran over by nine days the filming, which then cost the company a lot of money. However, because he had filmed it in black and white, which was a choice because all of his movies up to that point had been in color. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't an age thing. It wasn't, no, no time. He just stylistically thought a it would be cheaper and be, you know, it looked a bit better for some of the suspense scenes. And the blood and obviously the chocolate sauce, you know. But this film I have a few issues with this film. I love it up until the bit where Marion inevitably has the shower scene. And then after that, I find it incredibly boring until Sam and Marion sister find Mrs. Bates that that whole section there. My mind wanders off. It is just boring. But I know there's a lot of issues with the exposition at the end as well like that scene at the end where they're like, why was it added on it didn't make any sense. Not the bit where it's where it's Norman talking mothers talking to Norman, but it was a bit just before then. Well, I mean, we'll get there, but it is. I actually thought it was quite well handled for 1916. Mm hmm. Considering the topics that were covered in it, you know, it was like, he's, he was setting all the old funny studies straight about what was what and I was just like, I don't know why people had an issue with this It was an odd place it was edited in an odd place of a film but apparently that was a studio choice not a Hitchcock choice which and Hitchcock got his own way a lot on this movie, but so did his wife, because his wife Alma who was a massive collaborator of Hitchcock's she got the credit she deserves, and she covered a lot of shit from in life. Did she, or did she, did she just, and I remember back in the day back in the day, going to a universal studios Florida, and I would have been about 15. Yeah, because I started college that year so yes, 15 going into 16 and going to the average Hitchcock experience which I believe now is the Shrek ride, if it's still there, I have not been there in a very long time. But it was the average Hitchcock experience, and it was, you what you walked in to it, it was like a weight line, you know, like the bars and you wait and you go around but at the same time there's this big massive figure to like cinema screen on and it's showing you a montage of all of these films. And in that moment I am instantly light, what the fuck is this. And then we go into the experience which is where you go on a film set, and you recreate certain scenes from some of Hitchcock's most famous movies. And one of them was Rio window. So you got to look through binoculars houses and Rio window is one of my favorite Hitchcock films like cycle is and the birds is up there but Rio I love Jim Stewart in that, Jimmy Stewart in that movie, it is in grace Kelly. Oh, I love it. And, and they had clips from cycle and the birds and vertical and I see the money money money. And, and I just instantly had this love, this connection and I was like, I need more. And I took that home with us it did didn't leave us I took that home with us. And I remember trying to find a copy of cycle. And it was so hard. It wasn't in here, you know, in shops or anything like that. I found it in my college library on VHS, and I got a membership to the library, took out the video and went home and I, what if I hadn't watched what I watched a thousand times. And I will never forget my sister walking in, not watching any of the film, but walking in right at the end, where you've got Norman and mother. And the face is like, and she freaked the fuck out she still to this day get scared of that scene. And but yeah, had this whole like, I was just like a moment, like such a monumental moment of who is this person and these movies and that's when I started getting me books me little, little Bible of, you know, how we made films. And every single Alfred Hitchcock book, but the French Japan. Does a bear long story got too carried away but he got me the full collection it's in a black box. And it's all in English like they're all English movies. But all of the writing on the front is all Japanese I can't read any of the booklets are but it's so beautiful. And but cycle always for all of those other Hitchcock movies I love cycle stayed with us. I've been lucky enough to go to the LA Universal. And I have sat on steps of the Bates house on three or four occasions. Because when you do the VIP tour they let you get off the tram and you can walk around. And you go up past the Bates hotel at first and every time they have an actor come out, put in a body into the boot of the car. So obviously it's a guy dressed up as Norman put in the body in the car and then what he does is he looks at you as he's putting the roof like the bonnet the boot down on the car. And he looks at the tram and you see him and he starts to run after the tram, but then he gets so far and then he stops. And then he looks like yes mother and then he walks off like bad with literally they're gone. So when you go up and because of the way that they lay it out, the house itself is right next to the war of the world plane crash. But you've got the house on a transition. Yeah you've got the house on top of the hill and then you've got this exploded like that is a proper bow in and everything like laid out right next to it. So I first went in 2010 and saw it and we could walk around and we were allowed to take photos on the porch. And then when I went back in 2018 with Leslie and Dave and Rob we did Halloween horror nights there and they have a scare maze which takes you back to the Bates Motel and then up into like you can't go in the house to the top where they let your photos with the Norman actors. And there's us with a guy who was playing Norman and I was trying to out Norman Norman in the picture because I was trying to look more miserable than Norman in the picture. And then I've seen your miserable pictures you do a good misery picture. Yeah it's better than smiling. And then I've been back probably twice more I think since then and we've always it's one of my favourites so when I heard that they were going to take it down. I was so annoyed and so upset. And then I found out they stopped they they're not going to take it down now because they had so much heat over there. The fact that it's an institution you can't do that. No. But I do know that Universal has a sound stage named after Alfred Hitchcock and it's this the mix in sound stage six, but then did you know there's also one in Warner Brothers studio. I didn't know the Warner Brothers one but there is there is some gray areas when it comes to the distribution of this movie. So this this is technically Paramount's last film from Hitchcock, but he signed a contract with Universal. And they somehow got the rights. Yeah they probably bought it out of contract or something from Paramount or something like that. But when you do the tour through and you do the VIP tour they show you where they shot rear window. And you've got the streets still exists where all the external shots were made because they take you through the streets. And which if you're on the standard tramp or they just take you around the edge and they take you around a few streets but when you're on the VIP when they take you backwards and forwards and you go and you see all the bits that you wouldn't normally be able to see. And they showed the window the bit from the window outside and they were like yep that's where you see Stuart and Grace Kelly and then you know they were explaining it all. Oh I've got to look through binoculars and look at an exterior wall that had loads of little videos playing and you saw different things in every window and it's like where you're meant to be looking for who who's doing what I love that film so much. And it was north by north the west was the movie set. I think it's Cary Grant who is a Cary Grant who's running the whole fallen off the building I was a vertical vertical. And you had you had someone sitting on air like a paddle thing lying back and the camera was here and the wave in their arms around and I was like, I'm not doing that. Oh the experience honestly I was devastated when we went back like not the next year of the year after and it was all boarded up and I was like, well where's all the stuff gone like I'll take us. I was devastated I never picked up any bits more tell merchandise I was so overwhelmed by that whole experience I was like, I'll do it another time and then that other time they became. I do celebrate motel merch now still just standard and then shop so but it good to be well, to be as well received as he still is considering the scandal that man had the influence that he must have had in the eyes of his body weird clearly outweighs his discrepancies because when you're on the Warner Brothers tour you drive you drive down this road. And they have the whole Hitchcock building which is where all the writers are. And it's not called the Hitchcock building because it's just got his silhouette of his pompous face on the front of it. You drive down next door is the studios that where they do the readings and the writings for the big bang. Yeah, when that's that's big bang was still on but, and then you see all the, the car parking spaces so you see like Penny Leonard. You had all the car parking spaces just outside the front so when they were doing the read throughs and stuff. So that was pretty cool but the fact that like he's still given as much. What does that look as in Greece's second. People still blow a fucking fanfare forum, how regarded he is considering his indescrepancies and the just the way he treated not only the league and ladies but anyone that worked for him. He was a pig apart from Janet Lee, or because she wouldn't stand for it which he was terrified of 20 characters. Yeah. Because this was the whole thing because her and Tony got married in like 1955 I think it was something around there because I did look into their personal lives because I was quite interested in that because obviously this film a lot of people know a lot on stuff anyway but I looked into the personal lives of like Janet and Tony and a little bit on Alfred Hitchcock but I don't want to give him too much credence you know because, but Janet and Tony got married in the in the 50s and the thing I find funny is I have two kids Janet had been married twice. Oh I didn't know that. She got married right that I found this bit out. She was married at the age of 15. That's not uncommon. No, but she told them she was 18 and her dad marched her up the thing and they got the wedding and old so that technically was the first wedding. She married somebody prior to marrying Tony but when she married Tony she had a two kids she had Kelly and she had Jamie. But did you know the thing I find the funniest is Janet Lee's real name is Jeanette Helen Morrison. Hi you and Tony Curtis's real name is Bernard Schwartz. Yes. So we would have had had they've not changed their names. Jamie Morrison Schwartz not Jamie Lee Curtis. I'm guessing she wouldn't have been as popular because the Curtis name held some gravity. It really did but Tony was a shit. Some of the stuff that they went through is insane. She was at the time as well she was being pursued that was a word I was involved by Howard Hughes. Oh well of course. And if those of you don't know who Howard Hughes is there's a movie that best explains him. It's a sprout face to caprio movie but it's called the aviator and how he was scared of his own shadow he wore tissue boxes for shoes he became a germaphobe of the extreme, but he was a bit of a genius though. And the whole plane the whole spruce ghost thing it's the man knew his shit, but he and he wasn't afraid to lose money over things that he gave the shit about. But yeah he was insistent with with Janet Lee of the pursuing of her for marriage and she just wasn't interested. But Tony Curtis have been offered 30 grand by one of the studios he worked for to marry Piper Laurie. Oh my god. Yeah because she was his co star in a carol gonna laugh at you. But he said that he just wasn't attracted to her and for the sake of $30,000 it wasn't worth it because he's not interested he found her quite vile and quite quite a very unpleasant person very suspicious of everybody. That's what Tony said about it. She had she did not just I mean this is just going off carry along. She had that this. He was tempted by the money for a bit but he refused because Jerry Lee Lewis said to him. If he was to run away with Janet and get married to Janet, he'd be committing career suicide. I'm not a fucking taken advice. I'm going to marry my 13 year old cousin, but you can make career suicide by running off with another woman that's legally of age, as a fucking family member. The next one Jerry fucking cretin of a man. I know that Tony and Janet did not have a great relationship I remember this poor she put up on Instagram. And my god this just goes to prove how amazing this woman actually is. She had she said she said in this post of the issues that her and her dad had the issues that her dad had single handedly the issues that the mom and her dad had. And at the end of the day when all said and done. She still loved him. Yeah, I mean has that was still. Yeah, but that was her father. Yeah, that give it. She said that give her name. Give her a start. She and it was the way I would go back on it Jimmy's Instagram and try and find it because it the words are so powerful. It's, it's all about forgiveness. Yeah, like he's not here anymore. I can't sit here. I'm not, she went, I'm not blaming him for anything that I did in my life. Did that by myself. And she just, it was just such a beautiful thing to come out of what was probably a really shitty situation for her and she managed to turn it around and make it into a positive. She didn't even have the greatest relationship with a mother at times. No, towards the end, they were inseparable. Apparently Janet and Tony Janet would get incredibly infuriated by Tony when they were in public situations because Janet was of a certain class and she was put together a certain way. She wasn't enough to know be, but it was just how she was brought up to act proper, whereas Tony was quite, he was brought up in a neighborhood where everything was a bit lower class. He didn't understand propriety the way that he, you know, so that caused like a division there but Tony had found a letter written to Janet, which was a love letter from Bob Fossey. Oh my god. Yeah. And he then presumed they were having an affair, but Janet still swore it was just the letter that he sent her. It was unrequited but they were friends. So Tony then decided in his infinite wisdom, he'd start spending a lot of time down the playboy mansion. And he'd been fucking, he then once he was hanging around there had a trust with a then 18 year old girl called Natalie Wood. So he had the affair with Natalie Wood. And he's excused was this is the quote, I was 30 years old in my prime and beautiful girls with fantastic figures were constantly throwing themselves at me. So I decided that from that point on, I would partake more fully of the bounty of being offered to me. And do you know what I put up after that gross discussion gross you were a married man you have two children. If you didn't like her just, I know six, the 60s were different but fuck me, they were a bit more open about divorce and stuff like that. I mean divorce was not off the cards gee like yeah that I was just like I don't know that that whole quote was just like you know when when I watch some like it heart. And I love that film so much it's so fucking it's still to this day is hilarious, but all I keep thinking of is Tony and Jack are just not in the same caliber at all. Like Jack lemon is a fucking god and Tony Curtis can like, I don't know what this is just my personal opinion but I always think Jack lemon you can you, you take over this movie so much that he is literally in your dust. I'm going to go and scrape a couple of times. Yeah it's in that weird one he's barely crossed from a page and vampire and he is next to a land and he's in the same one with all those guys he's actually hef is in there as well and Marilyn. I'm not the forever one it's the other one it's the other one and I'm brothers what it was forever and print word no that's where Marilyn moved and any brothers I can't think of what it's called. Oh good god Sam the amount of fucking times you've got great or whatever it's called Hollywood graveyard and grace is good for new video it's been fantastic. He's I think he's next to Kurt Douglas is there now for a four so she's in that line. How do I know this. Yeah, and it on his dream is just a Jack lemon starry in. Yeah. It's it's it's lovely like he's got one of the nicest setups because the like a lot of them have been forgotten over time being the fact that they are as old as they are like Betty and then vampire are they sort of. She still gets a lot of love a lot of love she actually had a ceremony for her hundredth birthday not that's your year for. Yeah so they had a huge ceremony and friends of hers came to talk her niece who published the book. She was there and who Hollywood graveyards were there and Arthur dark. What a amazing name and but who video did. Who was the video or who did I was a great life it was great life. They were invited. That's a good video it's a lovely lovely ceremony for someone who named who should never ever be forgotten. But Betty is the same. Yeah, and I just thought it was nice to have a quick look into them because. Whilst technically is only on screen for a grant out love. 45 minutes. Yeah, about an hour and 48 minute movie. She is the starring on she is the main focus of this movie. And percent but she's the worst fucking character. Oh God Marianne Korean is horrible. Now can we talk about in 1960 how scandalous that opening scene must have been. All the senses had a fucking field here with this one. So the opening scene of the movie you have Sam Loomis and. Marianne Korean. The positions of the bed. Is it separate beds that they had to use. But I think they've pushed them together a little bit. They'd had to get around the senses so badly because. Yeah, I think that was the first time. Heaven forbid Marianne was in a bra. And a slip. They were white. They were white and you never saw a woman. Prior to this so scantily clad for such a large period of time. Like I think if there was ever a woman seen and right it was a quick. You know, like moment and it was gone if that if it was a tool it was very quick. I think something's something's got to give title then goes to some another movie later on. But her last move in there is shot that we've done from it and. And there is a pool scene. Right where they use the pool. As the guard, but she puts our leg up. Yeah. And there's a scene where she's got it and that was a bit. But that's the boundaries that they were pushing. This helps that. Yeah. And she, she, she didn't care. Janet. Give us flying monkeys about what I thought was about this. She. She was like, okay. And he's like, I think the thing about Janet was she never put up a fight. She never had questions that would annoy. Alfred either because. The shit that goes down with him is you've got to be able to hold your own around. I think it's a little bit of an elaborate. Tippie Hedren didn't know how to do that. Hence why you have the book, the movie. I think is it Toby Stevens plays Hitchcock in that not Stevens Toby. Oh. Yes. He plays Hitchcock and he does a bloody good version of Hitchcock. Yeah. But Naomi Watts plays Tippie Hedren in that film and it's all about the making of the birds. It's based off the book that Tippie Hedren wrote about her experiences with him. And basically she didn't fit the mold. She rejected him. So he. He made her life an absolute misery on that set. She was a married woman. She had children. Yeah. They were insisted on making her life and live in hell and. Who are Vyramils? Look at the tree in this is in this film. This is the last contracted film that Vera had to do. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't work. It didn't work that way. You had an actress or an actor who would sign to his studio, whether that be paramount, universal studios, are key always. Places like that. And you would sign a deal to say you would be contracted to five movies. Yeah. You'd be lucky if you got five movies in one contract. And you had to fulfill. Yes. And you literally had to fulfill every single one of them. It didn't matter which one it was. And this was Vera's last one with Hitchcock under her contract with Paramount. And he. Made her life so fucking miserable on this movie set. He tormented her. He all because once again. Didn't go for his advances. Vera was. Again, I think she was married kids and he put all because Janet wouldn't. Wouldn't give him the satisfaction. He took it all out on Vera. From what I've read. Yeah. And I'm trying to find this bit. I was this into everything you say. I don't think I'd be rude, but I'm trying to find this bit where there was this quote. About one of the one of the people he worked with and what she had to say about him. And I know I put it down. So I'm kind of annoyed. He was a twat. Very similar. But I think it's here actually. Yeah, there we go. The French actress Brigitte or Burr who was in to catch a thief. She remarked. He basically tried to kiss her and she told him to get off. And this is 1955, bear in mind, and she spoke up, which 1955 again. Good for her. Good for her, but it's not heard of the don't do that. Her quote was, it is difficult when someone is so ugly like him. That turned out lower lip. When someone is ugly, isn't there for the poor cabbage had a wonderful soul. I know. She's got him a cabbage. When a forever normal is a cabbage. Yeah, good for her, because people don't do that. I always remember an interview with them. Oh, God, Jay Collins, not Jay Collins, John Collins. And John Collins has been in the end of the day. She's seen it all. She's seen the beginning, the casting couches, the, you know, everything. And she, the Asta, and this son, this was like breakfast, telly or something. And they asked her about in Maryland. Because obviously, if you've met Marilyn, everyone wants to know a Marilyn story. And she was like, yeah, I met Marilyn a few times and she gave me some great bit of advice. She told me to make sure my knees were always clean. And I was like, Oh, okay. Yep, exactly what she means by that. So, that's just, that's just no, no, no, but yeah, that's, that's, that happens. So I'm really pleased that the women like her spoke out. And he had a habit, like, of all the co-stars of all the women of all the shows that movies he did, like, Ingrid Berman, Grace Kelly, Eva Marie Saint, Kim Novak, and Lee, he would have this thing where he would have a courtship with them and then be incredibly violent and force towards them, inviting them for dinner in their house with his wife, and then next to take them, like, invite them to his trailer when he was on his own and just be a dirty old man, you know, it was like, I don't know what his thoughts process of that was but that it didn't fall for any way for sure. No, no, she really didn't. Um, and not, and Norman Anthony Perkins Anthony Perkins was the only choice for this movie. Um, no other and I adore this man so much. I, I not only have a love for the first one. I love all the sequels, because he's in every single one of them. And even it's a sequel for that's the radio show, where he's starting to his life is together and then he's starting to get freaked out. And he's starting to get freaked out because things are starting to happen. She's starting to come back in there and he needs to push her out and the end result is he sets the house on fire spoilers, by the way. Um, I can't remember if that's three or four. I don't, I can never remember where it goes up to but that is one hell of a fucking film like his acting in that and he was poorly at the time. I didn't know. Yep. Mr Anthony Hopkins, but he passed away from his related illness. Yeah. And he was starting to get sick towards that record, but oh my God, did he put everything on the table. And he's like, he's performing in that you could see it's like, normal, Norman, not, not, it's normal, Norman, Norman's normal like he is, he's, he's figured it out. His body's headed and then all of a sudden it just starts to break down. And he's been back in there and he's talking to a radio like a talk show radio host. And, and it's, I think she played Amanda Waller once. She's really cool. She's like, oh, she's in every, she's in face off. You know, when the scientists. She said, Oh, she's in that she's in all sorts. You can pick her out at anything, but she was fantastic. And it's the majority of the film is just them two talking. She's absolutely loved, but he is such, and Hitchcock could not be nasty to him. Well, do you know what his nickname wants for him on set one last debates. Yeah, because he's that kind of grown up. But that's what he called him the whole time. And that even had it printed on the back of his chair. Yeah, he apparently when Perkins got diagnosed, he told his family in and he said, and this is a quote, I chose not to go public about this because to miss quote Casablanca. I'm not much of being noble, but it doesn't take too much to see that the problems of an old actor don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy old world. So he was like, I don't really want everybody knowing because stigma in 1992, because that's been passed away from an AIDS related illness would automatically the mindset was, Oh, he must have been gay because everybody was thick in 92. No, and it was like, no, he wasn't. It was still to this day. I couldn't find out exactly what it was, but the likelihood they said was it was a bad blood transfusion at some point, and that's where it came from. Yeah, because he had a blood transfusion, you got ill. I think we had a variety and I think it was something to do with the side of the AIDS story that they don't want to tell you is the majority of the people who had the infection was because of hospital errors because of the potentially drugs was the main thing as well. But the staggering thing when it comes down to HIV numbers is the amount of women. They're affected. They don't talk about that. I'm not getting in that that's for a whole different fucking that's a whole different time. And shame that was around it was why he didn't want to go public. He basically had, he bought his kids in now. His kids were Elvis and Oscar. Now Oscar, some of you might know who Oscar is. Oscar was the name of his dad about this Perkins dad, but he named his son after his dad. Oscar Perkins is responsible where we are to say thank you very much to Oscar for the direction he did on a new film called long legs. Oscar Perkins is the director of long legs. Yeah, he's also been in a lot of movies and people don't even know he's Anthony Perkins son. If you have seen Legally Blonde, you know, David, the little gimpy friend. That's Oscar. If you have seen Nope, most more recently, the Jordan Peele movie. Yeah, there's a director who's directing the TV show with the gym. That's Oscar. When you go back and watch it, you see Perkins, you see the Perkins and he also has been in Star Trek. He has been and he also his earliest foray into acting because he wanted to be like his dad was when he played a young Norman Bates in Psycho II. So Oscar, a young legendary's father. So they all call him Oz, but yeah, so thanks to Ozgood. We have the insanity. Either way, I've heard it's crazy. It is something that I probably have to go back and watch it again. But A cage does an amazing job there. Like there's one part where you can tell it's cage and you're like, Oh, yeah, yeah, it's just him. But then there's other bits where he's just so, it's another level for cage. It's not the cage we know it's like this. Yeah, the makeup helped. I think it makes him a moat to an extent of where I need to watch this. Yeah, you know, it's very slow. And I'm not usually a lover of slow movies. I've started to appreciate that a bit more. But this one kept me great. It's not correct, but it kept me like I was intrigued the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. So, Ozgood is becoming more, excuse me, more and more someone to look out for now. And go back to, you know, I'm just kidding Elvis. I just want to bring it. Yeah. So, I would do it in a heartbeat, but, you know, I wouldn't let is. Apparently, there was a, I'm going to have to take my notes and kind of look and go from there because I don't want to fuck the story up because it's quite cool. And false, that's cool for me. A false story circulated the George Reeves. Yeah. Was hired to play detective Milton. Arbogaster. Why can I never say his name? And yeah, George Reeves is Superman. And he's tragic. He tried it the way he died was absolutely tragic. Yet, it's so, I have watched so many things with, so yeah, George Reeves is the original television Superman and Ben Affleck. Polia George Reeves in a bio film. It is fucking brilliant. This is how they, you know, but Affleck has played Superman, Batman, Daredevil, you know, and he's, he's so good. And it's, oh, it's pretty good. But yeah, George Reeves death is so mysterious because when you look at it on pay, it'd be like, oh, suicide. When you talk to the people in the house. Oh, no, something went down that night and we will never know the truth of what happened on paper. Yeah, there's lots of podcasts about it. So I highly recommend if you want to listen to something that you, if you like puzzles or mysteries, that's definitely one to go in just, but just know you're never going to get an answer for it. Oh, no, it's make your own mind up. Make your own mind up. But yeah, he was, there was a false story circulated around that he was hired to play Milton Arbogast and filmed a few of his scenes with the rest of the cast, just a week before his death. And he was the private detective, wasn't it? Yeah, there is no truth in this. Like I said, I don't recall seeing anything about that, but no, the dates don't match up, but it was a long standing rumor that he was part of this film. And then obviously his mysterious death takes place and they, or what's gone on here because this movie was, it is from the incident came out obviously the way that he promoted it was a hit. But to the studios, it was, it was a risky thing. There is a really good bio film with Anthony Hopkins of the Megan a cycle, some of it is a bit far fetched. But you can get a feel of how he was around this film. There was rumors that he stole books from libraries and, and book shops because he didn't want anybody to know the engine of this film. Yes, I heard that he bought the rights for like the pittance it was like, $900. Nobody knew this book. No, it was like next to nothing he bought the rights from his book for. So then what he did was he asked for a distribution list of where they were sent to, and he went around and got people to buy every copy and every one of these shops to try and avoid the spoiler of the ending, which I thought was a ambitious and be kind of ingenious I suppose in my life. It's a rough day. Yeah, yeah I mean, it doesn't surprise me that but then even then it's been, it was changed quite a lot but kept the majority of it. I guess the on the book. Never at it. The budget for the film itself was, it was made on what they class as a shoestring budget for a film in 1960, which was 807,000. Oh, that isn't a lot. But to me it's a lot, but when you look at Paramount being involved in the universe or being involved. Yeah, money. No, it's not. It translates to 8.7 million today, which is still quite a small budget. So it would have been class as an indie film. You've just gone, you were just going to figures that we've heard in the past that does seem quite. It's in, it's in the indie realm because indie realms are somewhere like they're the low part of the millions if they can even raise that, you know. And the box office, it was such a hit. They had no idea what to expect off the back of this like 807,000 pound investment. It made 50 million in the box office. By today's standards that's 504 million. That's like opening two weeks of Avengers end game, you know, we're talking. It's it's up there, you know, it deserves its place in the list, you know, of that's a hell of that's 504 million by today's standards is an insane amount of money to make. That's crazy, but it's understandable because he made such a mystery about it that he, he give people no choice to go and actually say it. And it's something that you will never find to do. Well, you may or will never. Yeah, no, you're right. He made all of the guys on set signed NDAs as well, didn't he? Yep. You're not leaving here, you're not going to talk about it. Anyone. You're not going to do anything. Yeah, but it wasn't just people on set. Anyone, anyone who his secretary, his wife, like he had everyone signed them because he was so protective. He was he wanted to follow up to the bird, no, the birds haven't come out yet. He wanted something that was different to what he was known for. And this was it. And the film does have some strong, not the film, but the book because that's where the references come from. And has strong connections to one particular man, one particular infamous serial killer. Has he got your custom as the serial killer? Erm, I'd say so because he's killed more than one person. However, what you thought three was totally, it inspired a lot of horror movies as this fellow. Oh, he has. He really has. And you know what, never really interested me. I mean, I take, see, the weird thing about, we're talking about the very. Yeah, now he. I find it fascinating because of the psychology of how he lived after his mother's death and how his apparently her room was absolutely immaculate. And the rest of the house was like, no electric, no running water. And it was squalor, it was the Hobbiton. Like, you know, we're talking after like, some of these gone through it with a steamroller. It was, it was just, he lived in a halt, basically, it was the most disgusting thing you've ever seen. And to add to that, obviously, body parts everywhere. Stuff in the oven, skin hanging up to tan. He made the nipple belt. Yes, he did. Nice. I know so much. He even made the trousers. He made the pair of trucks. What gets me? I mean, no, it doesn't get me at all. He actually killed two people. It was only two that he killed. So in the John Douglas world of them, because John Douglas, if you don't know, is the guy who turned the coin, the coin, the coin, the term serial killer. And he bears that. Yeah, I like John. I feel like I've had some time with John because I've read mine, Hunter. He is fucking fantastic at explaining cases, like the in depth and how he leads your introvert and how simple he makes it for you, because he has to remember that you are not part of the, you know, the team, you don't know the terminology. So he does. He breaks it down. Lovely. Well, fuck me. Does that man like to give himself a pat on the back and a big massive round of applause for John, because John did it all. He totally forgets that he has a whole team behind him who helped and who were doing this, but he did count coin the term serial killer. And the way that we look at serial killers is helped because of John's team and how they managed to use serial killers as a way to become a pro to profile people. And board where my completely lost my point now. But yeah, he only killed two. So in the John Douglas world, he is in the serial killer, but what makes him more interesting. He was a great robbery. Yeah, so that's why he had so much skin and stuff like that but the thing that I can't remember his surname, Bloch Bloch. I want to say a block. Yeah, the thing that he took from the whole of the egging thing was the relationship with his mother because his mother was apparently one of the most overbearing strong. And it very much looked like Mrs. Trunchball. If you ever go and see pictures of her, she looked like Miss Trunchball from Matilda. And she was, she was like the matriarch she was everything mother said, Ed had to do, even though his brother, you know, he had an older brother and his old brother was a little bit more. He was lenient, she was lenient with him and he was allowed to do certain things because he became the man of the house that he had freedom, because the father died so he, you know, but Ed was always the baby. And it's the Robert looked into the literally the relationship there is, rather than take like the Texas chainsaw approach which is take the blood, take the gore, take the skin and more views that side of a game, he took the relationship with his mother. But the reason why this story is wrong so much with Alfred Hitchcock was because he had a very similar mother. He had an overbearing mother who would tell him what he did wrong all the time and tell him how he looked was a disgusting and she was one of those mothers. Yeah, so this is why this story resonated with Hitchcock to a degree I mean it doesn't explain his behavior but it contributes to the way he was as a human. The story itself rang true with him because he was like well I can, I can identify to a degree with this story about this this young man that has an overbearing mother and he doesn't know how to live a normal life he just is quite happy with his existence of living at night and his routine and looking after mother and looking after the the motel and mother's wicked but it's a means to an end to be able to run the motor cut, you know that whole thing so Yeah, well Eddie Gaynor's managed to, you know, inspire at least three films I can think of over the top of my head, this one, Texas chainsaw and science alarms because you know skin furniture. Let's make it a thing. Oh my god, it honestly makes my borns called to fitly to it's skin furniture, nipple belts, no, oh, should we go through the film. Yeah I mean we're at the point where she's having that little take our take in a bra in 1960 with her boyfriend she gets dressed there about she's she's discussing like how she wants to be with him and marry him. Well I've got an ex wife I've got to pay her alimony and you know I just owe all this money and I don't think I'm ever going to be able to get out of the situation I'm in because I've somehow got myself in too deep and just like me kind of thing money, yeah, and all that Mary and he is in that moment we need money. So she then gets dressed and realised that she's late for work for a lunch break. So she taught a little there bump and grind on a lunch break. Well, just before I forget to see this because I will, the boyfriend Sam Loomis recognising him. So he's left in the room and she said to him don't be sure playing you've got to go back to wherever the hell it is you come from and he's like she's like I don't ever want to do this again and he's like you're a liar, of course you do. He's very cook sure but at the same time he was quite vulnerable in the fact that he I think he was genuine in the fact that he loved her and he was ashamed because he didn't have money to look after her. So I kept saying this is, you know, I know you don't want to do this you're too good all this sort of shit so her and her ego poop out the door you know did Lulu off she goes. And then she walks into her office from what I remember like her place of work and she starts talking to the other secretary in the room. The other secretary, do you know who she was. She's Alfred Hitchcock's daughter and you can see it the minute they said that was his daughter I was like oh my god that poor woman looks exactly like him. I didn't know it's the first but then I was like chatty chatty little thing that she is. It is just before, is it when no Marion's already stole the money. No, it's not. It's just before, it's just before. So Alfred Hitchcock like to do a cameo in every movie. And the reason he chose the moment he did is because he knew people would be looking for it. But that's not where he wanted their concentration to be. So he was like let's just get out the way with right at the beginning. And then we can concentrate on the story and watch how much of it. He just walks across the street and looks directly at the camera and just walks along and that's it. But that's what he used to do we just he would like literally walk. And, but there that we don't get to find out how much of a horrible person Marion Korean actually is. Yeah, I mean this is like she was inquiring if there was anything that you know anybody wrong for orange and chatty Cathy was like no no just my husband, my mother, his mother checking that my husband and rang and all this sort of stuff. So they've established the dynamics in this. Then her boss comes in with an investor that's about to buy a house I presume it's an estate agent because you never really find out what it's so much. No, you don't know. Some sort of solicitors or like a escrow place or something like that. I just thought when I first watched it's office work for office people. Until he walks out that great big amount of cash and goes I never carry any more than I can afford to lose. Oh well, bitch, you said the wrong thing there. It really did. And I was like, you know, just everything about him like the stuff he was saying. And he's like my daughter's getting married. I've got this picture of my daughter. She's 18. She's fantastic. And then he's like, let's let's let's let's hit her up here. And I'm like, oh, just, just no. She's like, oh, stop it. Yeah, winning ring just blaringly obvious insight. But the way he's going on is to distract you from the fact that he's that money is going to be stolen and look at the who she stole from it's okay. He's a dick. Yeah, you're supposed to. It's a dick move on Marion's part. Yeah, so she makes it like she makes an excuse to know she's not feeling too well. She's going to be about taking this cash because it's not normal. What I'll do is I'll bank it, but you can put it in the safety deposit box and then if you change your mind over the weekend and you decide to pay a different way, we'll go get it out of the security deposit box. So he's like, yeah, that's cool. I won't. But you know, so her boss says to her, right, you go and bank that you go do what you need to do with it. And she's like, well, can I go home? She's like, of course, you're wonderful. You're the best choice I've ever had. And so she too does. Does she go to the bank? Does she. This is one of my favorite scenes in the movie. Just because of how it's played out. So you, you're in the car with Marion and it's just Marion. Steer and wheel, driving along, and all you can hear in the background is the conversations that she thinks is going on right now because it's not confirmed that it's actually happening. Or if it's in Marion's head. I've always been that it's Marion who's thinking it. Yeah, it's all the stuff that I've seen have said that it's like her internal monologue. Yeah. It's just an imagination of what's playing out while she's not there. But what I did like something that Hitchcock did intentionally in this part was because when they open the scene, you see Janet. She's all very virginal. She's got a white shirt. She's got white underwear on white, white bra and white handbag. And then when she makes the choice to take the money to run away to see Sam to give him the money. She is in a black bra. She's in a black slip. She has a black dress like top thing and she has a black handbag. And he said he wanted to show the difference between the good and evil sides of Marion. And I'm like, well, that works, but I didn't get it. I just thought she just changed. She was driving. Yeah, no, I didn't get it either but oh my God, how beautiful does she look when you can see a puzzled face as she's driving along. And you can hear everything that I love that scene so much. So once Marion's in the car. She ends up falling asleep. I find so bizarre that they wrote her like this. Like the next couple of scenes how because they're trying to play on your sympathy because of what's about to happen. She felt more. She purposely made herself look incredibly suspicious. Like if you have for 40 grand, which is translates to around about probably a couple hundred thousand in your, in your newspaper in your handbag and you're getting pulled over by the police. You're woken up by the police because you've fallen asleep in your car. Yeah. And she starts acting really strange. Goodbye officer. I have to go. It's an emergency. Well, it wasn't that much of an emergency because you were asleep love. So, yeah. Yeah. So she ends up finding him or tell. Well, she swaps a car first doesn't she and it acts really weird when she swaps a car. Yeah, she goes to the car. She goes to the car show room because she thinks the policeman's following that. Right. And he turns off. So she went when she's driving up in the first car, he turns off and she she relaxes and so she drives to this car show room cheeky Charlie's or whatever his name is. And she pulls up and she's like, right. Okay, if I let you, I want to sell you my car, but I want to change it for, you know, I want to swap it for another car. And I get to the same no wonder she's so weird. There's a lot of weird things that happen here that I can't. Isn't her car pulled at the end. That's how the new she was there. Yes. But there's not her car. So how would they know that. But this is the thing. I think it was all traced through that police officer that was watching it because he was he was across the road watching her the whole time she chose the new car. And like cheeky Charlie said to her, you know, Oh, well, if you want to swap it for this this this car is going to cost you $700 on top of your exchange on your car. And she was like, Yep, no problem. And he was like she paid the cash $700 cash, which is the equivalent I think they said of like having like £8,000 in your car. And then she just literally had it in cash and she handed it over. And then she she was so desperate to get away from the policeman. She almost forgot a suitcase and a coat because the mechanic had to run it out and throw it in there for a while she's almost too wheeling it out. And the bloody showroom and the police was just standing there with these very small sunglasses on that didn't fit his face. Really big heads. And just what she's a drive out and I'm like what if you're that suspicious about why don't you stop her why you just watch it is very strange. He's very much who remains of the detective in the access to the line. Yes. Yeah. Just gives me them. Yeah, just gives me them kind of vibes. But yeah, Marian does end up stopping. She gets the rain starts coming down after she's had the internal monologue for so long. She's getting tired purely because Alfred kept shining lights in her eyes. But she doesn't realize she's come off the freeway and she's gone on the back road. But she realized enough to pull over to go to the to the motel itself. Because does it seem no vacancies to start with and then I think the nose flash in it. No yeah. Oh, I love that. And it's a yeah and she's greeted by a woman. Mother was his blood. No, God, I love that. Mother please. This is between the way they wrote Norman in the movie compared to the way Norma's written in the books is Norman in the book is your typical serial killer son of Sam vibe. They wrote him to look like. David Berkowitz. Yeah, they wrote him to look like Berkowitz David Berkowitz because he was supposed to have like a little bit of hair, pulled on top be overweight, be very unsociable kind of like awkward. Yeah, he was he was he was he was. Me, how he is is how he looks. Yeah, I mean, that's not what it was not what he wanted to do he has to be unexpected. The thing is Berkowitz was obviously in the 70s but it that's the vibe that when when people explained to how they wanted him to look. And that is how exactly how the book wrote him is how he looked at how you describe Berkowitz basically. So I hear that man. Yeah, he's a strange one. You tell him he committed all them right off. You're telling me a dog can talk. Yeah, it's another level of what the fun, but it's, it's the whole thing where he was supposed to look creepy in the book he was supposed to give off all that vibes. But Hitchcock completely went against that and wanted someone who had charisma and seemed incredibly innocent to the world but could still have a conversation with a woman without getting like really embarrassing one in way, you know. And he was articulated his words and he was interested in things like he had a really good taxidermy collection. Yeah, yeah. Never do dogs or cats those what he says and he's having that whole conversation after he said to her because she's been there and she's, she's obviously knackered she's done all the driving and he's shown it to a room. And then yeah he basically says do what a clock to the house for a sandwich and she was like oh it's late I'll go to see and he's like don't worry I'll go up and I'll make you want to bring it back down. She goes to invite him in the room but then something stops him from going in there and I think it's like that little, the shred of innocence is left in Norman like that whole I don't think I'd like to be in a bedroom alone with a woman. No, mother think. Marion he is mother and Norman arguing at this point. And she's like who's that music who's what we talked about it to know what you talked about. And she was the kind of voice that she was incredibly out spoken woman I suppose, in the respect of that she wasn't just keeping a head down and just going to bed and pretending she didn't hear it she actually voiced her opinion on the situation And really wasn't her place to do so no and so this isn't too happy about that. No she wasn't she was not happy at all and the taxidermy room though itself when he's sitting there and in the birds are spreading. I was at the Hancock on Friday, and there's a whole big nature section and whoever did the taxidermy for that oh my god, unreal like it's amazing. I've never seen taxidermy looks all fucking cute just adorable but essentially we were walking around and me gods and I just fallen asleep and I turned to my best friend and I was like, you know what we're essentially just walking around in a room for the dead animals And she's like right it's time to go, and we went to when we went to had a room, it's like little roomy bitch made out and it had like lights and everything, and it had the voice of the underworld And it was all like it was in the Egyptian section, and it was like what would it feel like to be entering into the underworld and I was like oh yeah this is this is a bit of me this walks in shit load of kids there, making so much noise I eventually turned around and went I thought it would be quiet in the afterlife if this I'm out. And all the bloggers just looked at us I was like you can look at us all you want I wanted to come to the afterlife I didn't want to hear you squat and kids going on. He's talking to her and she's been incredibly outspoken for these people, but for Norman's liking to a degree because he starts going off on quite a dark little tangent doesn't he like that and she also says maybe you should put your mother in an institute. Maybe you should put off Marion. Yeah, like who are you to tell me and he's like no those places are horrible and he starts going through his month's defense so you're at this point you're not the wiser you're like clearly she's a very pressing person she's a very overbearing mother she's a very demanding person so you don't question it you're like okay and then he starts going off on one about like the dangers and the dark and, and all this sort of stuff and then that's where he said like oh she wouldn't like it because she's gone a little bit mad and then that's where he comes out with the line we all go a little bit mad sometimes or however it is that's how it says, and then it goes, it's either he says, wouldn't you or don't you or something along those lines and I can see him I can see him looking up and saying it because he does it with his eyes down because he doesn't really give it a much eye contact, but whatever Norman says to our resonates because Marion comes to cook because she goes up a little bit and she's like I've done something I should know and the conversation makes her go I'm going to go and do the right thing I'm going to go back to Phoenix tomorrow and I'm going to sort this shit out no she goes to a room and this is where she sits down well no she starts to get changed and there's dirty dirty little man dirty man takes a picture off the wall and now you're starting to get a point of view of who Norman possibly could be but it's it's still not the level of where you think it's going to go you just like oh you're fucking creep you dirty little boy yeah I was in the wall and so you watch as I get on change basically and then he hangs his picture up but you see Marion sitting there and she's doing all of our equations working out what she owes from the money she's taken already and how much is left and she's carried all the money she's hidden it in the newspaper you see her ripping it up and then you see her throw it in the toilet and flush a toilet now as we all know a flushing toilet is nothing big it's nothing new it's a toilet it flushes everybody knows this but it was the first time a flushing toilet was ever shown on movies TV screens of any kind because apparently it was something to do with it in proper or in polite and probably just a censorship thing they were bear in mind how like the next bit is some of the most brilliant filmic and does ever been done and but he was very clever around getting around censorship the censorship act that they are following literally to spans a couple years after this film stuff and because it was so strict you would see the toilet at a distance but you would never see in the ball no it was not in the ball wasn't it and that was quite a shock for everybody because they were like oh how disgusting and all she was doing was flushing some paper down the toilet that she'd ripped up with all the sums on and so you're like okay from the generation we are it was nothing scandalous but at the time it must have been like everybody must have been clutching their pearls oh my god there's a toilet how dare they could you and then this is where she proceeds to get undressed and gets in the shower now I have worked I need to have words with Marion about the way she showers you never get in the shower and then turn it on you turn it on first let the water warm up and then get in but no Marion decides to get in to a shower to turn it on I am I have cold showers so it doesn't really matter to me which way I'm putting the shower on like it's always going to be the same temperature I'm literally in hot showers to cool down so it's like I can't I never understand that I literally have a cold shower because of my internal body hated the minute there's this bit there's a scene that you see and it's only it's only a couple of frames but it's the camera looking up into the shower head and you see all the water cascading down past your point of view you're supposed to be Marion's eyes at this point she's looking up at the shower head now legend has it now I don't know how true this is because I kept trying to look in for a bit more and I wasn't sure I couldn't really find much they built a six foot shower head prop to put the camera in that blank space in the middle of the shower and they poured the water down either side of the camera to get that shot I saw it on one of these many many places that you find this stuff and I couldn't find it anywhere else and I was like I don't have true this is and I can't verify it I can't back it up but I used to know this scene inside I know back to front and how he shot it and part of my memory will start flooding back as we're talking about it but I have never if I had known that that would have been the first thing that came out of my mouth is about a six foot shower head and it was just it was something that I read that because they want they wanted to do it from our we had to be Marion's eyes and the only way that we could be Marion's eyes if we were standing under the shower and the only way we could stand under the shower was with the camera I didn't want to get the camera wet and so that's what they build this this whole thing out of apparently apparently well not to embarrass you bubbles fellas but when you're looking at Marion cranes body that ain't Janet Lee was Janet Lee has her own very naked stuntable who was I can't get her name it will take me forever to look through the notes that I have wrote but she was a playboy funny also a nudist who loved to flaunt her bits and pieces around everywhere she had no she was so comfortable in her skin but her and Janet got on like a fucking house on fire and she didn't take any shit from hitchy as well and but yeah I read a lot about her she seemed like an absolute blast and she is the only living member the only living person I think she is still the only living person from this film um but yeah that is not that is not Janet Lee um there's bits and pieces that are Janet Lee because you can't the fears you can't but anything else was this lady I'm sorry I can't find out honestly it is in here somewhere but I use a laptop now people not a north pad and I don't want to organize myself just like I never organized myself will be written not um but the scene right so showers happen them what is running and the you basically get a full not a full 360 of the shower but you get like a scan of it so you can see everything that's around and as Marion turns her back we are looking at the shower shower curtain curtain that's it shower curtain and we see a figure a peer her name was Marley Renfro that were you googling yeah it's just going to bug me otherwise I know I've got it in my notes as well but so yeah Marley Renfro and she was a uh American former showgirl model playboy covergirl and actress she sounded like a blast yeah absolutely blast um especially some of the things I was reading it was just the whole attitude life like I loved it um but yeah we see the figure and we see the knife and then that beautiful oh my god what's the composer called I've got it here um Bernard you don't want the music there at all um do do do do where is it Bernard I've got it here somewhere where is it glad he helped it's fucking Bernard it is burning something starts with a H Oh no Bernard Herman oh my god that was so annoying because the minute you said it me eyes went straight to it yeah so yeah he didn't want the music to be used in it but because of the effect of the which by the way is the inspiration for the music and Jaws just want to put that out there and also I was completely blatantly ripped off for reanimator which is another one of our episodes if you want to go back and listen to that yeah the blatantly ripped off a very amazing music that's played throughout this film is very much used heavily in reanimator however I wasn't mad at it if I can remember rightly I thought it was I thought it was one stroke genius to incredibly fucking catchy because the reason why he liked Herman was because Herman had written the scores for vertigo and for north by north west yeah he had him he had him on board to do the birds which was after this one but obviously all he was in charge of was the noise of the word squelking in the end but for this he paid him 33 and a half thousand dollars 34,501 see that wasn't bad I didn't have that written down I was just trying to remember what I read but yeah he paid him a lot of money I felt that the score was the thing that captured the essence of the scene yeah he was dead against it yeah he was dead against that score when he heard it but then when he saw it in the editing suite when it was put to the scene he said it was like the whole scene yeah he's changed it he said 33% of the effect of cycle was due to the music and ironically he didn't want I'm reading from you know so you didn't want the music in the shower scene but he was persuaded by who he's lovely wife Alma, and it works that screeching violin that really brings some tension to what is already an incredibly tense scene and a very risque scene I mean yeah you saw skinned you saw torso you saw You saw under you saw under the boom but you saw under the breast and before the pelvic both so you saw that the crop top section you mid drift right, which was something you never saw bear on telly either He managed to get shoulder to down past the shoulder so no cleavage no top of the breast so the boobs got completely cut out so there's none of that and nothing from the waist to the upper thighs either so you see her buttocks I think when she's fun it turns round she's done that thing where she's wiggled down the wall and she's on practically on her knees and then she slumps forward because there's a moment where the camera is panicked on her eye and they had to there was something they did with the free like a freeze frame because she kept the yeah that's right there's a free when you look at Marion and she's you know dead looking at the camera. It's frozen because and you can see because there's a drop just about here on her eye and it's stairs there. Because she kept blinking and he couldn't have it the blink in and then he gets the toilet and the blood which as we've mentioned before is chocolate syrup chocolate syrup because the consistency of it. When he used other stuff and one it didn't reflect in black and white. Yeah the consistency and would just water down. So you're not seeing it there's no it actually what blood would do if it hit water it just, but he needed you to see the effect of it and chocolate syrup was the one thing of consistency when it hit the water it didn't just disintegrate it's. Yeah, and I'm trying to think of the other random stupid facts that I know me head about this. The knife don't even the start on the stomach as well like it just made it for us it's meant to be going in because you hear that the squish and of the water melons that they used. There's the sound of the knife going in but really it's just scraping across our stomach. But doesn't really you don't see your penetrates skin it just goes across and you see that you know beautiful stomach liner which they run like the side of it. And then you have the iconic bit where she grabs the shower curtain and she goes down with it and ends up oh yeah the hand which by the way she had some beautiful nails on it. She goes forward over the edge of the bath because we all know if you've ever visited America their baths are tiny. Yep, they never heard about America. They are the smallest things there they are literally our shower trays with a slightly bigger raised edge. This is not really a bath but she basically she dies slumped over it. She does and the figure is now left. Now the figure looked like they were wearing a dress. Went like long hair that was a black thing tied back. Yeah, I'm just trying I'm just trying to think of the week. Yeah, take back and the figure leaves. There's a lot of command in the figure. There's a lot of confidence. Yeah, walking in and out very straight, you know, and then bumble and Norma. Oh God, what the fuck has just happened that he doesn't swear but I bet he wish he did. And he does what any beautiful son does. And he's up after his mother. What a mess you've made mother. What a mess. And he cleans up and he dumps Marion in the back of a boot and takes her to the blog. Because everyone has a bog conveniently out the back of their motel. And then we guess the detective side of the movie. I'm going to briefly. Yeah, because I get what you mean I taught the understand. And Lila is not a likable character just like I'm saying that Marion is a chick bag. But she was likable. Lila Korean assistant that's a man. No, she's not. She's not particularly likable. So I'm a line. Sorry. I was going to say the only issue I have with the private investigator part. Is the way he has his demise. It is no one on audio is going to be able to see that I was literally wearing my hands around. It is such a strange way to show someone falling down the stairs without actually falling down. It's a hitch. It's a hitchcock. We are falling down the stairs. It's like I'm just going to bend backwards and then you're going to film me bending backwards. And then we're going to tend to fall down. I just, for some reason, I've never noticed that before. Last night was the first time I'd really paid attention to that bit. And I was like, what is he doing? He's flailing down the stairs. He's, he's preparing for haunted for hauntings. Yeah, I mean, all the stuff because what happens is basically Marion's sister is away when Marion decides to run away. So Marion's sister comes back to the boss going, your sister's running away. She goes, honey, what the hell is going on? So she goes, right, I know where she's gone. She's gone. She's gone to see Sam. So I'll go see Sam. So she turns up to see Sam. Sam's got no idea what's going on. The private investigator comes in and then they like, right, we're going to have to trace our steps, find out where she's gone. Somehow you see a montage of the private investigator going to every hotel and motel in the whole of the Tri-State area. You don't need to see it. It was a choice. It was a massive choice. But they do trace our steps back to Norman. And Norman fills them with an absolute load of shit about the Marriott. You can smell it because he's not a very good liar. No, Norman, Norman as Norman is incredibly anxious. It shows, I mean, I'm taking Norman from this movie, Not the TV show because I have watched a bit of the TV show and I didn't mind that portrayal of Norman. I like it. I genuinely think Charlie and the Chocolate Factory did really, really well with the company. So, yeah. So Sam, Sam, he goes back to Sam and Tyler and the poor calls in the story. And they know Mother is there because Norman makes reference to it. But what they end up finding out is that Mother actually died from a murder suicide syringe. Did you call it murder suicide? Well, yeah, murder suicide. Yeah, Norman give the syringe. So there's the murder side. The suicide is the fact that she wanted to die. No? And poisoned her. See, this is the bit where it all gets muddy for me because there's this bit, but then there's the other bit at the end, which I always remember more. The explanation at the end for it, which was she met a guy and Norman didn't like the fact that she met someone and wanted to move on. So he killed them bikes. That's the, the psychologist's assumption. You think that's them trying to make sense of it. Yeah, because that's what the psychologist said that Mother said happened, or I'm pretty sure. But then. Right, I got, yeah, got, yeah. So, and that psychologist scene at the end with all the air position. So I always feel like that must have been what happened, but if that's the mother's side of it, it doesn't necessarily mean that was what, what happened. That was so. I'm not 100% sure, but that's where my brain always thinks it's like mother met a mother met someone and I just thought she died. I honestly, I just thought she died. He couldn't cope with it. And this is, was he's way of coping was to, you know, do what he did. Left a room on. Unchanged in me. She, she was still laying in her bed. Mummified until that last minute where he picks her up and he carries her runs her downstairs and hides her in the basement. Yeah, which was a choice. The muscle choice because when they did, when they start to dig deeper and they end up at the beats motel. And Lila ends up finding mother in the basement. Yeah. And does that amazing not her scream. Yes. Yes, that is generally screaming because Vera couldn't pull up pipes together and generally has a better scream. So the used it. So yeah, I love Lila finds the mother. And this is probably the most interesting part of the movie is. Yeah, well, this is trying to explain Norman. Yeah, I mean, you see Sam tackling the knife out of Norman's hand and you see the weekfall off and the dress starting to come off and you're like, does that thing with his face. It's like a transformation thing. It's like it's a crazy kind of like, it's, it's like, it's like he's trying to not be her any day because his face like pulls up to one side. It saw it. I don't want to use the word disturbing, but it's like, it's not kind of manic, isn't it? It's like, yeah, that's the word manic. It's so strange, how we, because he comes, because when you saw him killing Marion, I suppose he killed Marion. And when you saw this, when you see Norman killing Marion, he's confident you can see it in the way the stance of the way the knife was in and dirt, dirt. But when he comes. When out of the shadows with knife in hand, it falls apart. Yeah. And it's almost like Norman's fighting his way out. Yeah, because when everything starts falling off like the wig, he just becomes weaker and weaker and Sam's able to tackle into the floor. And then it just hard cuts to the psychologists. All the people sitting in the room and the psychologists coming in if I'm right. There's no, no, there's no transition. It's just straight from, you know, some time when I'm straight into the decisions and yeah they do explain that Norman killed his mother. And he's a couple of 10 years earlier out of jealousy and unable to bear the guilt of what he's done. He then mummifies his mother and play as her out. Yeah, because him, because the psychologist comes in and they said did you talk to him and he's like no, but I talk to the mother. Yeah, Norman had done the whole interview as mother. Yeah, because this is the thing his psyche of fractured according to the psychologist into two pieces it has Norman and they have normal and normal was so dominant that she overtook Norman at this point when he, his mother was actually found she became the dominant of the two now some people say that could be schizophrenia some people would say otherwise but I don't think it's schizophrenia because it is a known person, it is his mother. So, but I don't think you can call it multiple personality disorder because there's only one other person in there. And I don't really know what a fracture psyche like, yeah, he's literally split himself into two. And when he's attracted to women mother comes out because mother would be like, oh, she's not good enough for you. No, absolutely not. And that's for, and when he needs to be confident. And that's when mother again will come out. It's so it's crazy that you don't get to see any of that. Which annoyed me because I don't think this this scene was the studio's contribution because the studio wanted to clear up why you see Norman and address. Obviously again, transvesticism at that point wasn't something we see for whatever sake but the doctor does clear it up because one of the other policemen or doctors says, oh he's a transvestite and he's like no it's not for sexual communication, although I'm not sure now so much that that is the whole reason behind us, but 1960, you have to go with what you've got. But he's very respectful. I will say, I think they handled this section very well for the time. The latter is really done. Yeah, the language used, considering this was an unknown territory in talking about it in a public arena. It was like, he's like, no, he just genuinely believes he's his mother, it's got absolutely nothing to do with any kind of physical reaction of wanting to be a female, it's got nothing to do with his mother. Oh, yeah, it is the fact that his mother is in his head and she is the dominant personality. And she is the one who's taking control and we've lost Norman now, Norman's gone. This is this is what we have. Don't worry people, he does come back. He does come back. Yeah, she's just sitting there going, but is she dead? Is she dead? She goes, yeah, she's dead, and then she's going, but is she dead again I'm like, did you not fucking here in the first? No reaction though, absolutely nothing didn't cry, didn't face didn't even move. What makes me think is just what makes me think there's a viramils was doing the bare minimum to get passed on this film just to get the fucker over with. If you thought it was going to be a flop which the majority of people did think it was going to be a flop at this point. Wouldn't you go home gutted knowing that you could have given 110% to one of the most iconic movies ever written, or like pieces of cinema ever to be had and you're just sitting there going, what is she dead. I'm not going to speak ill of you because you are dead, and then you get the the most. I want to say it's iconic is not just so much as the the shower scene will always be like the most iconic, but this is quite like up there where you get the conversation between the two. Yeah, this is where you get all the iconic stills of actual Perkins on his own like normal normal bites. I shall never hurt anyone, not even a fly. I love that line. I love that line. I love the fact that the mother is like the one who's talking and then it's all of a sudden Norman starts smiling and the face comes over the top of his and it's like, Oh God, who's who. And that's the thing you've got the doctor say that she he was talking specifically to Norma, but then when you hear, I'm still not sure who the voice over was for that whether it was Anthony doing a very. Very high pitched voice or it wasn't actually another woman that did it Jeanette Nolan was uncredited as the appearance of the voice of Norma mother beats the three voices we use in. Sorry Virginia Greg Paul Jasmine and Jeanette Nolan were three variations of mother. Yeah, the final scene was performed entirely by Virginia Greg. But they did he did do some things to Norman's voice as well, especially with the Oh mother blood God, no, he took the base out of his, his voice to make it sound quite angelic. An incredibly accomplished actor and people don't really realize that, and I'll go between calling him Anthony and Anthony because, obviously, depending on where you're from, that's how you say it. My husband's name I called him Anthony. Yeah, it's, it's, he's an incredibly accomplished actor and in 1992 when he did pass away, it was worth nearly $3 million at that point which by today standards is in the 10th 15 million, you know, he had a bit of a legacy. Well, definitely so he did get cast for and whenever you went at the point of when you could interview him and Janet, and they were always asked, are you scared of being typecast how do you feel like you've been typecast. Both of them that especially Janet she was like no I don't care that this this movie is set me up for life I don't have to ever worry again and Anthony would say the same thing he was like, if you told me that I would only play. Normal bait for the rest of my career as an actor I still want to take any job. Yeah. And, and this movie transition that saw this is the movie that made her the last movie that she's ever in is Halloween here to war, and Marion Korean is very much prevalent in the movie, the car that she drives is Marion's car. The name, Mrs Korean. And yeah, the outfit that she wears. It's a beautiful. I don't know if it's done on purpose because it was a Janet's final, and it was with Jamie as well so how everything special is that. And but yeah they weren't worried about being typecast Tony Curtis did say about the shower scene that it led his in his biography, his biography, that it led his wife to drink, which ultimately led to divorce which ultimately led to her downward spiral. So, Janet side, I can't find anything about that so I don't really want to say that is true or not that is just the words of Tony Curtis's biography. Apparently she had vasculitis and she didn't tell anybody. She'd been suffering with it for a very, very long time. And so in 2004 when she finally passed away it was a shock to everybody because they didn't know she was as ill as she was. I don't know how much of what Tony said was true because he seemed like he was a very good. Well, you know in those circles where they're in a lot of the social situations in the crowds in those constant parties that they're always having Tony had a reputation of being a good storyteller. That was the guy that held court, he would tell his big lively stories and everybody would laugh. So I feel like there's an element probably a theatrics in there, maybe a couple of pills once because she was pissed off, not saying she was ID and she probably had a headache. And he was like, right, it's a suicide attempt. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, the drama, the drama. Yeah, the drama. Oh my god. It's a really, except for it's a it's a very difficult subject for me with Hitchcock because we have a legacy of amazing cinema that has paved the way for so many so many so many movies that we know and love today. And he, he himself but as a director, he's a genius as a person he was a human piece of shit. And I again I'll go back to what I said earlier, if any of you want to know what he was like when he did the birds which was three years later to be Hedren and you'll see his to be Hedren's version of events. And it's just called Hitchcock the film, not to be confused with the other one with the world Smith one and but the Anthony Hopkins one's called Hitchcock to on our top pitch, no, whatever. Hitchcock the fly in Will Smith and Charlie Sarah one it's it's the one with Toby Jones and Naomi Watson and it is an eye. And I haven't actually seen it and for no other reason than I didn't know about it until you mentioned it. I've seen the other one, but the other one's very Hollywood. Yeah, this one is more from her point of view. You see it from her point of view because it came. The one with them Anthony Hopkins is very much it's it's Hollywood doing what Hollywood does best wants to tell you half the story but wants to fuck my sugar corded at the same time, whereas, if you brave enough, you can really hand Hollywood and then I was shocked at how it's unreal she is unreal in that film, but again, they sugar corded they downplayed everything that that woman went through, and they had an opportunity to go to know what how they fuck you and really handed to them and really make sure people because of the people who are not like myself and Dan, who will go and read at the back end of everything to go and find out all these crazy things. They don't know this story they just see the, you know, the young last from the Wizard of Oz and oh look she could she turned into an alcoholic or how sad, but can find out the reason why I'm going into a massive random really sorry. It really fucks us off. This is why if you really want to see the, the viewpoint of one of his own genies one of his actresses one of his, you know, and I will say that Tippi Hedren was one of her stunning women in like a part Janet and Tippi is just, you see it from her point of view I mean obviously they would have sugar coated some of it I imagine, but if you want to see a more what's an old version of how disgusting Hitchcock can be, I would definitely definitely recommend you watch that film I would say you want to see a woman age gracefully look at her, look at her, beautiful, beautiful. So next week, I'm so excited, I'm so excited, another one where I'm like, how have we not done this before? So we are going into the, into the unusual into the freaks. This movie is top brownings freaks, and it is the inspiration for American horror stories. It's pretty much freaked out. It's very similar. It's very, very similar. The people, the cast and I have done some deep dives on this in the past like you start with one person, and you are going down a list of like, oh my Jesus. Oh, okay. I can't fucking wait, I can't believe we're doing freaks, my color's gonna lose his shit. But anybody that knows me prior to this, I used to be heavily involved in freak shows like supporting freak show artists, I used to go down to that, they used to do Wonderland, I used to sponsor sort of followers, I still do sponsor the circus of horrors. So, you know, I have a special place in my heart for people that if you've even seen an episode of one of David Blaine's We've got Brett, louder milk and, and the great alertio, and they were trying to teach David Blaine how to regurgitate and in that, the alertio is wearing a bleeding marvellous t-shirt. Yeah, this is going back years and years, but I like there's a whole band of guys that dedicated their life to geek in sort of swallowing eating glasses still bloody bones is still one of the ones that I know that does a lot of geek in a lot of glass and stuff like that which don't do it at home kids, you know what I mean, I threatened it no one again when I got into certain scenarios where I'm like, I'd rather eat glass. But yeah, I have such a level of respect to the circus world and to the genuine people. I've always had a fascination with gender like real freak shows so so like you're half women you're bearded ladies and, for me it's, it's, I don't know there's just something about it just something about the time, something about how it was like not frowned upon but these people were the outclass of society yet, they could make a fortune off the back of the way they looked even though it was horrible responses people were still paying to see them. They were making money from it and I've just had a story confluent back to the con john and twins Oh my God, there are so many things that we can talk about not just the movie but the whole entirety of it. But this is when you go and watch horror lists of your top 10s, you top, do you know what I mean you list of what's the best horror movie of all time I guarantee you freaks is in there. This is a genius Tom Brown was so responsible for Dracula, and many, many other movies Tom Browning bought a lot of things that we wouldn't have had to the screen and this, this film is probably one of the most disability friendly as in everybody that had the disability that was shown with genuinely people that had the disability there's no, there's no people play in the war. No, there's no the on the full you know able bodied or it's there's something about the fact that he chose to cast correctly that it was so respectful as well to the people, you know, to the actors and actresses and to the people they were portraying I have such a love for this film I really do. It's going to be a fucking leisure to get to not only watch this I've never seen freaks and but it's not to say that I have not watched a hundred things to do with it. I have not read shitlords about the, the movie itself the people that the actors who are in it. I can't wait to dive into this one. We put a coin last week to decide which episode was going to go mine on cycle or dance on freaks and we got to do a cycle to date and freaks. I'm looking forward to freaks I'm also looking forward to can I just mention this is coming out on Monday the second so it is Beetlejuice two week. Beetlejuice two comes out on Friday. Now, I've avoided every single trailer. I'm not. I'm not seeing one. I heard vaguely sort of heard it when I was in cinema but I have my fingers and I was going la la la. So I'm booked for Friday night to go and watch Beetlejuice and you will know my genuine opinion of it in two weeks time because by the time I've seen it yet when we film freaks but I would have seen it for the next next one literally wouldn't literally be caught on the night before she goes actually I'm seeing on the Friday as well. And the early reviews of it. It's like Burton's back. Yeah but they say, yeah I don't know but it's like Burton's back. And he's happy, please. You're gonna fucking love it. I just care about him. I couldn't give a flying figure about general tanger. Sorry. Catherine or horror. Catherine or horror. Good. No, that's all I'm bothered about. I just wanted to shout David. What do you want to face like an ample pelican. Hold the cheese. Why do we mix. Why are we mixing this? I don't know the fold the cheese. Hold it. It's what me and Amy do when we run out of conversation with all the cheese. Oh bloody love Moira. Honestly she's had incredibly iconic characters along the way but Catherine or horror. There was something about Moira she just took it to a ridiculous place where I love that. I wanted to just dress in monochrome for the rest of my life because of Moira Rose. So I saw Catherine or horror sing. I went to the Denny Elfman, the Denny Elfman name, anniversary show of Nightmare Before Christmas and the only original person who wasn't there was Rubens. But Catherine or horror sing and Sally song. Look bald me eyes out. It was beautiful. But that's all to come. We'll have our opinions on people just because we both would have seen it the same time. But that's all next time. We are on YouTube every Monday at eight o'clock. The audio for this episode and any of that episode association with Nerdy Up North goes up on a Tuesday. It's because that's when I do them. And you can find the links for the lead and marvellous monsters up north and Nerdy Up North, we're done. Oh, they're peachy nails. It's not coming across that color. Oh no, I get it now. Yeah, from a distance it looks peachy. Yeah, but then when you put them up close it's really orange. Again, if you listen to an audio and you want to go and see Dan's lovely nails come and visit us on YouTube. And if you're on YouTube, why don't you subscribe hit the notification bell so you never miss an episode of you all this news on YouTube on audio even. Tell us, let us know. And I actually looked at the stats the other day. We're quite big in America. There are some names. I didn't recognize the downloads in America are quite high and I didn't recognize half the names of the places that are downloading us so hi. Thank you. We so appreciate it. Sorry for my northern tone and her company accent. Thanks for sticking around. Yeah, I've just finished a book about the use end of London and I'm sick of reading copy sign. So that's just so you know, that's not how they all talk I promise a promise and that's it until next week. I'm going else have to say say goodbye Dan. Bye Dan. This booky everyone. Bye bye. [Screaming] [Screaming] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [Music playing] [BLANK_AUDIO]