Coaching for Leaders - Talent Management | Leaders
Build Trusting Relationships, with Natasha Orslene
(upbeat music) Hi, Dave Stohofiak here, host of Coaching for Leaders. I hear a lot of leaders talk about wanting to be more authentic. Often that's triggered by something that's not feeling quite right. We may be doing all the right things. We're showing up, we're getting decent results and good reviews, but something kind of feels off. That's why I'm bringing you a conversation today with Natasha Orzlin. I've known Natasha for many years and have been fortunate to support her in the academy this past year. She shares in this conversation what didn't quite feel right and how zeroing in on authenticity helped. Here's my conversation with her. Today I'm talking with Natasha Orzlin, who's been a member of our community for about five years now and is also a graduate of the Coaching for Leaders Academy. And Natasha and I just discovered even though we've known each other five years that we're both graduates of space camp as well. Natasha, I never knew we had this in common. Here we are. - I love it, more things all the time. - There's a whole 'nother story we could have about all that, but maybe we should zero it on like the work we actually do professionally. Perhaps you could tell us a little bit about your role in what you're up to professionally these days. - Absolutely, thank you for the question. I'm so excited to talk to you. I work in the gaming industry and my passion, my passion for since I was a little child was leader development. And so I've made sure to always be involved in that in some way, like how do you really build the world's best leaders? Whether it's in the military, academia, in the corporate world. And so I'm so lucky that within the gaming industry I get to work in leader development. So I specifically do solutions and experiences for leaders from aspiring through executive. And so what that means is there's sometimes workshops, but it's also the facilitation of conversations. It's war gaming with them to get them to a different part of their strategy. It's anything that we can do to essentially insert this development through the work that they're already doing. Leaders are so busy, so we need to be super mindful and super practical about how we're leveraging their time. And so we always like to find fun ways to really get it into the work they're already doing so we don't take more of their time. But that's what it gets to do every day and I love it. - And I hear that passion in your voice and also in all my experiences of connecting with you over the years. And I'd also love to just acknowledge you publicly, what we've talked about privately many times of. You have put so many experts on my radar screen because you do so much reading because you have such a passion for getting better as a leader both for you and your team. And I think we've had eight or nine or 10 guests over the last couple of years who have come directly because you read someone's book and said, "Dave, you need to have this person on your radar screen." So great, thanks for that. I really appreciate it. I mean, you very much walk that talk every day. - Thank you. And that's so wonderful to hear. Yes, I love reading. I read about 300 books a year, 80% of which are focused on leadership. You can always be better or you can always be reminded of something that maybe you forgot 'cause life gets busy or problems get more nuanced. So I'm just so happy that that can also benefit other people. I love it. - I mentioned when we started that you and I have known each other a while. And at some point you decided to apply for the Academy and move beyond our Coach and for leaders pro membership and really work with me personally and several of our other members. What made you decide to apply for the Academy and what did you hope to get from it? - The first thing I really wanted was, I love the coaching for leaders community so much. I get so much out of it. There are such incredible people there who are so willing to offer time and insight and advice to other leaders like from this really strong leader perspective. And what I really wanted was more of that. I wanted more of that in depth. And so I knew from talking with you and talking with other members that this was this incredible opportunity to get more in depth and more connected that way. And then on a personal side, I really felt myself evolving as a leader. And in that evolution, I was actually feeling a little bit stuck. I wasn't sure how this evolution was gonna turn out. And I knew that I would need some additional tools to navigate that. And I thought the Academy would be such an ideal place to gain those tools, get that deeper connection with other leaders and get to work with you to really figure out like, what does this evolution look like? - Do you remember what that stuck felt like? - I felt like I was doing a lot of things and nothing was moving me forward. And like feedback that I was getting was like a lot of that, you're doing a lot of great things. And there was never a but set out loud, but it was definitely there. And so I knew that I was like hitting this wall, but there was a part of me that wanted to really share all these other capabilities that I had and I didn't know how to do that. And so I think it was just that like feeling like I was getting a lot of like, keep doing what you're doing. - That's fine, when nothing's progressing, not only not just like promotion-wise or anything like that, but even just like the opportunities that I was having, my work not expanding, just kind of doing the same thing over and over. - One of the things that we do at the start of the Academy is we invite all of us, draft a vision of what is two to three years look like, get it done on paper and make it tangible and share it with each other and get feedback. And I know a lot of us have like thought to do that in our lives and in our careers, but very few people actually do it. And so part of our hope is like to actually do that. And part of that process is surfacing three focus areas to zero in on. What's one you decided to focus on that you thought would be really helpful to get you unstuck? - One of the biggest one I wanted to focus on was authenticity. And there were a couple of reasons for that. One was being stuck and not knowing how to move out of that. And I really felt like that had to do with how I was showing up. And sometimes I felt like the way I was showing up was a little bit of an act 'cause I was trying to figure something out. So it felt like a bit of a game where anything that I maybe really thought or a real way that I would do something was put on a back burner 'cause I was trying to figure that out. Another piece to it, why I wanted to focus on that was my background being in the military. It was a very specific style of leadership and a very specific style of approach, which is effective in that area and in that industry. And I was unable to kind of marry that with who I wanted to be and how I wanted to navigate moving forward. So my personal style is not super militaristic, but I saw all the benefit and all these incredible leadership and team dynamic things that I learned in the military. And so I was also struggling with, what does that look like for me? And I knew it didn't need to be one or the other. It needed to be something in between. And so I would say those two things that like hi was showing up and then needing to evolve my military experience to what it looked like for me now or why I chose authenticity. - Yeah, makes sense. And one of the things we do as the academy was we really get into our work is we zero in on one of these focus areas and then we set a 60-day commitment. For all of us, the 60-day commitment's a little different, but the structure's similar. And one of the things we do is we decide on a daily action. What's something I can, five minutes a day or less, that I can start moving on to help me toward my goal. And as you thought about authenticity and starting to do that, what action did you decide to take? - The first, so I'd like to actually talk about two and kind of how it evolved. So the first action was that at the end of the day, I was gonna look at my calendar, all the people who I talked with. And I was just gonna put a little smiley face for a little sad face for how I showed up in that meeting. Did I show up authentically? How much of a show did I put on? I was thinking about those things, but the act, it was literally just a few minutes, review my day. How was I showing up in those different things? And then that really evolved too, at the end of the day thinking like, what was it about that environment? So kind of further reflection, like in my journal, what was it about that environment that was enabling me to show up that way? Was there something on my end? Was there something about like the system? But just being really honest, and most of it was on my end, if I'm being really honest, just being really honest about what is it that's causing me to feel like I have to fit into some type of box here? And even that I didn't, I could journal and be philosophical for hours, if somebody let me, but I also made sure to really limit it so that I could make sure I did it every day and didn't burn out by journaling for three hours one day and then not wanting to do it again. - It's so interesting you said that because I think a lot of the folks who come into our academy, they, like you and me, are like people who are really motivated, want to learn, want to grow. And the thing I find that I'm doing so much, Natasha, is trying to get people to do less, to not try to journal for two or three hours and to do something really simple, like writing a smiley face at the end of the day, like one or two minutes. And it's really simple, but it's consistent. And by, and we're big on consistency over intensity. It seems like such a tiny thing, but when you do it over time consistently, all of a sudden it opens up other stuff, doesn't it? - Absolutely, absolutely. And even just having those practices, like kind of doing that habit stacking with other things that you're working on, it just really created this as leaders, we don't take the time as often to reflect and even check in with ourselves, 'cause we're so concerned with caring about others, which is of course a huge part of leadership, but when we really get into that, all of our needs, all of our reflection falls to the side. And so even just building that muscle of just checking in and just making sure you stay consistent. And even now, several months after my time in the academy is completed, that's still something that I do every day, just to make sure that I stay as authentic as I possibly can, because the world changes. And new people emerge, and new problems emerge. So to not let all that work I did also get lost, and knowing that it's a system that also works. - Yeah, it's all about sustainability, right? Like how do we develop habits, practices, behaviors that are gonna stay with us long beyond whatever we do in the academy, but to really service for the rest of our careers. And to that point, like what happened? Like as you zeroed in on authenticity, wanted to really grow this, you started that daily action, you were really consistent. What happened as you did all that? - If I were to put it in just a pithy little thing, I'd say I found my personal brand. And what I mean by that is, I tend to have like a very energetic, just playful, curious style. And it's very not buttoned up. But in a lot of the interactions, I felt like I had to be that way. But I found that when I was really just who I was, which was approaching with that curiosity, making some jokes, it let me decide how I wanted to show up and wasn't dictated by how other people were showing up or what the environment was. And with that, I was able to find this consistency in myself that other people really started to trust. And I also came to realize that if somebody wasn't gonna like that style, if they wanted somebody who was more buttoned up, what I had for them wasn't gonna work anyway. 'Cause at some point, as the relationship emerged, they would find that out about me and what then, right? Then the whole thing goes awry. So I really found that just like that branding of, this is who I am, this is how this is gonna operate. And I decide how I show up. Nothing changes that was really what came out of that for me. And I love it. - What's that done for you as you've shown up that way in recent months? - So I know my scope of work has changed, which has been absolutely lovely. My team has grown, which of course I love 'cause I love leadership. And then also the types of projects that I am trusted to work on. And what I mean by that is some more very senior people are really letting me in on very vulnerable, very honest challenges that they have going on. And we're really working through it in a way where it's like, it's not the end of the world. It is, everything is figureoutable, and I didn't pen that at all, but everything is figureoutable. And I think that because I can kind of come at it with some measure of levity, it makes them feel like, okay, like we can actually work through this. So that's been huge 'cause that's also opened up how I've wanted leader development to emerge in the gaming industry 'cause we make games. It's supposed to be fun. - Yeah. - And so we make all of these things fun together. So I think that's also my style, merging with that. Yes, this is important, but not everything is so serious. - Huh, you know, as you were saying that I was thinking I saw a keynote presentation years ago at a conference and I don't remember anything of the presentation, but I remember what the presenter said at the end. She said, if you remember nothing of what I said, which clearly I didn't, (laughs) she said, I hope you will remember that the best thing you can do for your career is show up as yourself and be authentic to yourself. And what you just said reminded me of that. And yet how hard that is to give ourselves permission to, yes, adapting context to different situations, but also being willing to just show up with our strengths and who we are and when it's not right to find the other person who will show up that way. And you having done that, like, wow, it's opened up so many things. - Yes, absolutely. And even like recently there was another example of something where had I not gone through the academy I would have had a very different, probably reaction to it. And that was where it was a day where I was just over everything. I was tired, I was probably hungry. It's just a lot of things. I was going into this meeting. So I didn't have a lot of energy. Of course there was all on my end. But afterwards there was somebody who was like, oh, you showed up really well in that meeting. And I just remember thinking, oh, this is someone who in the past, I worked so hard to try to impress. And I really wanted this person's approval. And so I became a very muted version of myself. And so when she had said that at first I was like, okay, thank you. But then later I thought about it. And I was like, I wasn't showing up authentically because like I said, I had all my excuses. But that also really hit me because it was like, oh, it doesn't matter how effective I am. This person is looking at this as an image thing and not as an execution thing. But all the reasons why my scope has expanded and this other, my team's grown and all of that is because of the execution arm. So I think getting that experience just a few weeks ago was really like, oh, wow, that's actually just more good data, just great data to have. - You know, since you've been listening to the podcast for a while that I often ask people what they've changed their minds on going through this experience in the Academy, what if anything did you change your mind on? - I know my answer to many of your questions is always so many things and that is true. But if I were to hone in, it's the approach to work in like how I show up. So I don't need to do all this context switching. My consistency is what makes me effective. So I think that is the biggest thing because even as I was starting this journey and kind of figuring out what authenticity looked like, there's so, so much context switching to just meet the needs of the other person. But then when I was like, what if I just didn't do that for just a few days that really emerged for me where it was like, oh yeah, I don't actually have to do that as often with people. We still have to do that with work projects, but I didn't have to do that with people. So I think I changed my mind that there are all these concepts that we learn and we know there's all these things we have to do as leaders. And sometimes we don't. We just don't have to do those things as frequently as we think we do. - You are working on so many things professionally. I'm super excited about and this will not be the last time that we hear your voice on the podcast, I'm sure of it. Thank you so much for taking your time to share your story with us, I so appreciate it. - Thank you so much, David. It was an honor. - So much of success as a human being is getting comfortable with who you are, isn't it? I'd love Natasha's maturity to look inward, decide how to be authentic to herself and show up with even more genuineness at work. And people notice when we learn to do that just like they did with her. I know for me, it made all the difference in my own career. When I started to show up more genuinely and lean into my strengths. If you find authenticity a challenge, you're not alone. We all struggle with this at some level. The key is to start. And if you're at an inflection point right now, we're getting moving on this is important. I hope you'll consider applying to the Academy. Details of the Coaching for Leaders Academy and the application are at coachingforleaders.com/academy. The deadline is Friday, September 13th. So hop over before then. There's a lot more details on that page, including the qualifications to join the Academy. Check out everything right there on the page. And I look forward to connecting with you further if it's the right fit. Thanks for listening in and getting to support you through the podcast. [BLANK_AUDIO]