[Music] What's up everybody, Metal Dave along with my co-host Jason McMaster bringing you another episode of the Talk Laughter Podcast. Today we are joined by vocalist Ron Kiel. Ron has been around for decades. All remember him from MTV, the 80s, his band Kiel. He had the hit song with the right to rock. Before that he was in Stiehler. You remember Stiehler very well. Introduced the world to Inge Momstine. And then later on Ron kind of reinvented himself and sort of followed his muse and it led him towards a more southern rock, country western type thing. He kind of reinvented himself as the metal cowboy. And he's got a new album called Kielworld. And it encompasses all of those phases of his career. All those different genres of music. But all of the material is brand new. So he basically went back and called up all the guys from his previous bands as many as he could. Got them together to cut new music for this album Kielworld. And it came out August 2nd and it's just a great sort of retrospect career snapshot of Ron Kiel. I think it's a great idea because he's been around a long time. And he's created a bunch of different. I mean, it's him all the time. But there's these different gears. I feel like he's are these different colors. There you go. And it's interesting. How would you have this kind of a song and this kind of a song? Oh, well, I'll have all these different groups of people that I work with. And have them work on material while I'm working on this material. These guys can be working on this material. And I'll just like poke my head and cut the vocals for that. And next thing you know, he's got Kielworld. Yeah. And this is something that, I mean, he keeps saying, you know, oh, and this guy's been with me 26 years and this guy's been with me, you know, 17 years and black work. You know, add it all up. And it's like his whole life has been Kielworld the whole time. And I think that he's fought and worked extremely hard to get. You know, he says, he also says, I'm not. This is relative. He says he's uncomfortable with the lit with the vocals on the stealer record. And in you and I professed and confessed that no way, dude. Yeah. That's what I love about you is that crazy, screechy thing that he probably is trying to say that he does not like, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I understand that. I mean, of course I do. When I listen to early watchtower shit, I'm like, ah, yeah, that's just screechy. You know, like, yeah, honey badger screeching. You know, let's run over some squirrels. You know, that's what it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. And so I get it. I understand. But you know what? That's what, and I'm speaking for you and me, that's what people fall in love with. It's something that, whether it's. Keel, cold day in hell, hot on your heels, whatever, it could be anything. But that's what resonates and has a memory, kind of like a smell. And I think that that's where even though he's, you know, it's hard to step out personally and see that all the time, even though he does say that he understands. Uh, what that era of keel world meant to the, to certain, you know, people. And I'm just glad that he's sort of like keeping all of that alive. Sure. And able to go back to the old band pretty much. And recreate that and get, get it to feel and sound like it's a put, like it, like it's original idea. And you know, I want to, I wanted to say I didn't want to interrupt the flow of the interview we had with Ron today, which was fantastic. Uh, but it's, it's hard to write a song probably, uh, about, you know, tits and ass when you're 60 than when you're 19. You know what I mean? You're a different human being. You're a, you're a different brain. Cause if you're not, you're, I can't believe you're still alive. Yeah. Now you're the creepy guy. Yeah. So it's, you know, it's kind of a, I mean, I'm a 60 year old guy who wrote sport and a woody when he was 22 and have to sing it at 60. Yeah. So I'm just laughing at myself the whole time. So I understand that, that way, but it's probably hard to get it to, and he, he's also very forthcoming as far as how cheesy it is and how, you know, 80s metal guys always love a little bit of cheese on everything. Yeah. So that's completely fair. And he's, he's, he's straight shooter. He's very honest. And I love talking to him today. Yeah. He's a high energy dude. And, and, and he's managed to stay relevant in a number of ways. We didn't even get around to his radio show. Yeah. So, so this, so this introduction to Ron's, uh, talk louder episode today. This is the most I've talked, I get to talk the entire, uh, interview. I get to talk, I get to talk more in the intro than I do the entire interview. Yeah. And I love that when our guests are very talkative and, and loud mouth and. And, and when they have that much good to say, I, I, I'm the same way I was telling you off camera earlier, I usually pride myself and doing my homework and coming up with questions that they haven't been asked a million times in this sort of thing. And at some point it occurred to me, it's Ron Kiel, man. We're barely going to say hello and he's going to be off to the races. And it's going to be great because he is, uh, uh, very passionate about what he does. He has a lot to say. Uh, he's got great energy. So when you get someone like that, you let them tell their story, you know. And, uh, back to Kiel world for all of the fans out there that have followed Ron through his whole career. You're going to see names on this album. You're going to see, uh, Rick Fox is on the stealer tune, uh, Dwayne Miller, the drummer from Kiel is there. Uh, Bobby Rondinelli plays drums on, uh, the black Sabbath cover, children of the grave. Neil Murray plays bass and all you nerds listening to this show, I know you know who those people are. So, uh, he did, uh, manage to round up a lot of the, uh, people from the original lineups as much as possible. Um, so I think that lends it some legitimacy to it's not just Ron holding together people under a moniker. Uh, that had nothing to do with that moniker. Most of the people on this record had a big part to play in that part of his career. So it makes the, it makes the bands on the album very genuine. It's the real deal. And I think he does a great job with his segue from the metal into the country stuff. I opened the interview by telling him, I remember watching him on MTV and I just thought he had the greatest, ballsiest metal voice. Well, see, that goes back to what we were just talking about that. When I heard that voice, I was like, yes, that's what I want claws on the chalkboard. That's what I want. And I get it. He was just learning his voice that we, he was still young and still, still working on it. And he's, and he admits, he admits that. So I get that. You know, I like how, uh, he's tying everything together with Kiel World. Yes, as we, as we've said, the Black Sabbath story is very interesting. I want people to watch this episode and pay attention to that because it's an interesting story. And we find out the, the connecting how that come, come, came together at all. Yeah. Um, and I, cause I, I learned something today. So that's cool. But it also, and you'll, we, uh, an earlier episode, much or years ago now we did an episode on the deep purple family tree. Right. I just want to tell you, David, doesn't this put Ron Kiel on the deep purple tree now? Jesus. Yeah, that tree is now an orchard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's on the, he's on the deep purple family tree now. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Enjoyed it. Enjoyed it. Yeah. Exactly. He's, he's a great conversation. You all are in for a fun episode, uh, a lot of history with Ron. Uh, a lot of it is maybe stuff beyond what you already knew. Uh, most of it is, I think, as Jason said, we all learned something today too as well. So, uh, great conversation, great new album. It's called Kiel World. It came out August 2nd. You can find it now. Yeah. Ron Kiel today on the Talk Louder podcast. You guys right on, man. Good to see you, David. Jason. Good. This is awesome. Good to see you. Man, I have to, I have to start with a confession. I remember when I saw you on MTV in the eighties when I was a kid, I thought you had the greatest ball ziest rock and roll voice. And then, oh, that's where how we're going to start. Yeah. And man, can I say me too? And then on top of that, you had killer hair. I did. Yes, I did. I was quite proud of that. Well, it lasted. Well, what's awesome, Dave is, is, uh, is we, we know, and Ron, we're not picking on you. We're championing you. He's like a hundred feet tall. He's like a hundred feet tall. Good hair kick ass rock and roll voice. I was like, I don't know. I don't know what else there is to have. Well, the hair has come a long way. And so has the voice. Goodness. But I appreciate the compliments, guys. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Of course. I met you at rock and pod with Jason in 2023. And Jason's not lying. You are one tall dude. I was going to ask. Did was sports ever a career path for you or a consideration? Or was it always music? It was always music. And I, uh, I did place a basketball in school, but I was never really good at it. You know, I've kind of gravitated towards anything that I was good at. And the first time I picked up a pair of drumsticks, you know, I kind of sat behind the kit and I was able to cut a groove. You know, it's like, it just came naturally to me. I guess from banging on tables and chairs and everything else in the house for all those years, but, um, singing did not come naturally to me. That took a long time to develop. I was not a naturally talented singer, but I just wanted to sing. I wanted to be heard. And it took a long time. Even on those first albums, the stealer record is to be unlistenable. The right to rock. It's tough, man. That guy had a lot of attitude. He had some big balls and, you know, a lot of aggression and power and attitude, but it took me a long time to learn how to control that and channel it into really being able to be the singer that I hear in my head. So I'm glad I'm finally there and still still doing what I love to do and doing it. I'm doing what I'm proud of the results and certainly proud of this new album keel world. Yeah, absolutely. I want to cover a lot of ground, but let's start with keel world. That's your latest news. The album came out August 2nd. Um, 13 songs and six or seven different bands on this album, sort of a retrospect or a career spanning album, but all the songs are brand new from each of those lineups. Is that correct? Tell us. That's correct. It's all new, all new material except for the black Sabbath cover, children of the grave. That's a, that's an old classic, as we all know, but all of the other songs from keel, stealer, Ron keel band Iron Horse, Ron keel, Ronnie Lee keel. Those are all new tracks, new songs, new tracks. And I'm really proud of the response that we're getting. You know, Jason, you know this, as you do so many albums throughout, you know, three, four, five decades now. The album kind of signifies a chapter in your life. And even those three keel albums, the right to rock, final frontier and the 87 self titled album. Those were different chapters and the beginning, the middle and the end, if you will. One world is the whole story, all in one. It's the story of my life set to music. Yeah. And so, so how did you, it sounds like it would be a lot of work trying to round up all those lineups to record one or two new songs. You know, that's a lot of people you're pulling together for this one album. How did that process work? Well, it was a big team and a lot of great contributions from all the musicians and all the band's projects session players. And producers and engineers and studios all over the country and some in the UK as well, that contributed to this to make it what it is. It was going to be a Ron Kiel band album when we first started writing songs for, you know, it's that drive to create and write and just express by self that really drives me. And we had a great batch of Ron Kiel band songs. Yeah. And I went to dinner with a friend of mine. And his dad was sitting across the table from me at the, at the restaurant. And he just looks at me shakes my hand and says, Hey Ron, what's going on in keel world. And the whole time we're eating dinner, I'm thinking, man, that could be an album title. We could throw a big party and invite all my friends, kind of like we did at keel pest in 2019 with stealer Ron keel band and keel all in the same show. We did that again for rock and pod in 23. So I thought let's put keel pest on an album and include all my friends and some of my favorite bands and projects that made me who I am today so it was complicated, difficult. The hardest part was working long distance as you're having all these different musicians cutting stuff in their home studio or their local studio, sending you files. And then you got to make sure that you keep everything organized, which is a huge task, and then make sure that the guitars are working with the drums. A lot of times the rhythm guitars are really important to me. And they've got to be tight with the drums so that everything else can can go on top of that so there were there were a lot of complications. It did take three years to record, but I think it was worth the wait. Yeah, yeah. There is our audience will know you, of course, from stealer and keel, but a lot of you've spent a lot of years sort of doing this, you know, with the wrong keel band. It's a rock band but it's got a lot of southern rock and some country vibes to it and then you did the Ronnie Lee keel. I wanted to ask you what comes more naturally to you as a singer. We talked about your vocals earlier as a singer and as a songwriter. Do you find rock or country to be easier, which one's more of a challenge? What is the difference between the two for you from your perspective. What I like best and what I think I do best is somewhere in the middle ground on the Ron keel band tracks like hard on the outside or five o'clock shadows, where I'm still singing loud and powerfully and aggressively but to be honest, the screaming my guts out really loud and hard comes a little easier than some of the vocal challenges that come with singing country music because you don't have to. When you're when you're belting out a strong aggressive rock track like moving target or the new stealers song give me guitars or give me depth. It's really about capturing that attitude, being powerful, being strong, making sure you're in key and hitting the right notes. The country stuff is every little move of your head or every adjustment that you make vocally during the course of the session really makes a difference in the song. So you have to, there's nowhere to hide. Basically on those country songs, whereas with the rock and metal stuff, you got a wall of guitars behind you that somehow give you a little protection anyway. Sure. Yeah, I bet Jason can attest to that. There's challenges in both but you're not you're not wrong through the early pandemic I started writing country songs on my own and you are not wrong at all because it's a different emotional value. You're bringing to a song like a completely different animal, in my opinion. Because it because it's not loud. So when there's all this frequency that's just wide open and there's all this space, if you will, you're every, every breath and every you're basically naked. And it's, you know, it's the, it's lighter touch on the drum, you know, the drums are not crash bang it's, you know, it's real light if there's any fucking drums at all. I'm still using some grit, you know I mean that that that that grit I think is one of my favorite parts of my, my voice and what I bring to even some of the country songs like Neon Circus, which is a rock and country tune that's on field world. But you're still saying loud and hard. Even the, the low stuff is tough for me. And it's really even more difficult during the course of a show, because in the wrong keel band show we do all this stuff man we do the nine keel songs are in the wrong keel band show our original music. We play some stealer we play some black Sabbath. And so we cover all those, all those bases in the course of a Ron keel band show. And I'll find myself just reason along me everything sounds great feels good this time to sing one of those songs that's maybe in a lower register. And I'm all of a sudden I'm not so comfortable anymore so going back and forth during the course of a show is much more difficult than you know you've got, you know, three or four songs to record in the studio today so you try and pick the songs that I usually start with one of the country is one of the softer tunes, it's something that I'm a little more comfortable with. And once I'm warmed up then I start belting it out and do some of the heavier music during the course of a day when I'm in the studio and my goal is to cut three songs a day. And we were able to achieve that goal, the vocal on moving target which I'm really proud of this is the new keel song and the first new keel song in 14 years. Mark sent me the music and this really was the impetus musically behind keel world because like I said we had a lot of great songs in the bank for Ron keel band. And then when I started thinking, this could be more than just a Ron keel band album Mark Ferrari from keel sent me a piece of music. I thought in love with it. I thought it was fantastic he's an amazing songwriter, and he just had this riff in his back pocket. And I put the lyrics and melodies and vocals to that track right here on this microphone which is not a vintage song. And I started working on the song just to create a blueprint on this microphone. And I was so pleased with the results that I ended up keeping that first take I mean it was magic. And so the vocal that you hear on the new keel song was was just me here in the basement with this mic. I did have the time and I was in I was in a great studio and feed is called full well recording, where we cut nine of the lead vocal tracks on this record. And I love being in an environment like that where you've got skilled engineers and producers behind the glass. So I had a beautiful vintage microphone a great vibe, and I can just be myself and sing I don't have to worry about any of the technical stuff. So I had plenty of time left over, and I thought well let's take it to the shot at this moving target song. And I listened to the demo vocal and I said well man just copy and paste that into the band mix because the band had re-recorded the entire song by then. So we just took that vocal from the demo flew it into the track and I said man don't fuck with it. It's it's perfect it's magic it's it's that first take that you're never going to be able to duplicate that, even with that doesn't matter about the microphone or how many times I've practiced or sung the song that first take was money so that's what we ended up with. And I should know that that keel track is basically the classic keel lineup right. It is Mark Ferrari Brian Jay on lead guitar and they they're playing that they continued to improve their skills throughout the keel reunion which we did in 2008 till the present day. And those guys are playing great swap and so those all those harmony leads that are a trademark of keel and Dwayne Miller on drums who's been with us 40 years. And you know RC on base who's been in the band 15 years now Geno's been with me for 26 years. So when he joined keel he was an iron horse as well and still is I guess. Yeah, he had been playing those keel songs on stage with me for 10 years when he joined keel so it was very natural to fit genome into the mix and so it wouldn't be the same without those guys. He was a band and a brotherhood and it's not just my last name it's their band too. Yeah that's what I was getting at because you were talking about how well that song came together and when you consider that it's basically the classic lineup it's kind of like riding a bike you guys just hadn't put the bike down for a while but you get back together. Magic you know. So the other day I'm in my car and I'm listening to Amazon music. That's not a plug or anything. And there's you know algorithms right it's everything's controlled by a robot now so. And you know, whatever it's just playing songs I'll pick some songs and it's playing through them and all of a sudden moving target comes on. So the robots know me well. Wow that's cool. Was that the first time you'd heard it? Yep. Wow. I was driving down the highway and moving target comes on I said that's that's I know who that is. I know that man I know that voice I know what's going on here and sound great. Thank you man. It really is in my opinion. It's one of the top three to five best keel songs of all time. And of course you've got the anthems like the right to rock their timeless and really put us on the map. And there's some great songs on streets of rock and roll our reunion album from 2010. This one is right up there along with our best. And I try and set that bar pretty high with every project that I do if we're going to do it. At least as good or better than we did it before. And then so you have a standard that you've achieved that I'm not going to go below that. But it's such a great song and Ferrari came up with just an amazing piece of classic keel music and putting the vocal to it. On all of these songs on keel world as you go into that creative process well I have to write a steal or song. But what does that sound like or feel like 40 years later. We all know what a keel song sounds like. And it's it's got to have to be a little departure from what I would normally do. Because in the 80s Jason you know this well as anybody. The lyrics we usually put the lyrics on top of the music the guitar players would come up with riffs or we would write the music. And then it's our job to put words to it. And I don't do that anymore. I usually start with the lyrics melodies title and a couple of strong riffs and then I'll find the right riff or chord progression to complement. The lead vocals and melodies because that's that's my country training kicking in because country music is all built around the voice, the stories, the melodies, but in the 80s, you didn't have to be so eloquent. And you know I did get a criticism on the video on YouTube, where the guy says the lyrics are terrible, you know. But it's just cheese, you know it's just for me. I'm a moving target you'll never catch up with me I'm you know I'm just an outlaw with a target on my back give me your best shot and I'll never look back I mean it's it's 80s kind of cheese, very much like round and round. Our level find a way just give it time round and round what goes around comes around I mean it's that's what we used to do back in the day so I had to put my head back into the 80s to be authentic enough to create music that really represents and stealer that stealer song. I'm really proud of that one because what if you're going to do your first new stealer track in 40 years. It's got to be an anthem it's got to have those elements of the stealer that inspired us 40 years ago AC DC just priest scorpions, whatever, and I found these looking through stacks of notebooks. I was looking for a stealer title or what could be a stealer song in here and I saw give me guitars or give me death that that that's that's stealer man that's 80s cheese. Oh, it's got it's got stealer but no over it. So I was able to, I just went back into my influences and we talk about, we even mentioning they mom steam in the lyric talk about my guitar heroes Edward Van Halen and some of the songs that inspired us paranoid smoke on the water when we were kids. So to the genre, the era and the guitar heroes that really brought that music to life and that new stealer tracks. I'm really proud of that. The elephant in the room. Did you reach out to invade a be part of this? No, we had any contact with him over the past when we spoke. We spoke recently. I think it was 85. You know, okay. All right. Well, that noose, that new song you wrote just a couple of days ago. You guys is called cold Dan Hill. That right. Yeah. Yeah. Couple days ago. Yeah. It seems like yesterday. Yeah. See that just came out. That just came out. You do you do have Rick Fox on that track and we've we've had Rick on the show and I think it's great that you guys are together on the stealer track for a stealer track in 40 years. But when he was on the show, if I recall correctly and I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think I recall correctly, he said that by the time this album came out, the stealer album, which in my mind is an underground classic. But when that came out by the time it came out, you guys were already in decline, if not kind of already almost broken up. Is that is that accurate? No, I had a different lineup, but we were still selling out every venue in Southern California. We're still one of the top draws on the scene because we always put on a good show. Yeah, I think that he made that. He made that clear. It's like by the time the record came out, you had. I don't want to you. I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth, but you had a new lineup. Yeah. By the time the day the record came out, I was the only guy left in the band that was on the album. That was a comfortable doing the meet and greet. I'm really staying tower records. Yeah, you know, the album came out and we're all autographing and I'm the only guy in behind the table that was actually on the record. So that was a little awkward for the new lineup, which featured Greg Jason on bass. Yeah. And I heard James on guitar Bobby Marks on drums who went on to be in keel. Well, we, we, the band never declined. Okay. It got to the point to where I realized because of the revolving door of players. And it gave us the perception of instability in the industry. We weren't going to get signed to a major label deal. And that was a really tough decision for me because stealer was my baby. I moved to LA with my band stealer to make it and we're on a mission. And to, that was my band and my brand. And to finally come to my senses and say, man, we've got to move on from this. The last thing I wanted to do was call my new band keel, but it certainly was the right move at the time. We were able to gather in March of 84. We did our first gig a month later in April of 84. By July, we're in the studio recording our debut album late on the law for shrapnel records. And then by August, literally a month later, before the albums even finished we were signed to gold mountain and records with Gene Simmons producing our debut the right to rock. It all happened within a six month span, really quick. Now looking back obviously it was the right move, but that stealer legacy is still alive and well with the new track. The new music video, which is going to be, and I hate to call my shot here, but man, this new stealer video is going to be one of the ultimate big time metal videos of all time. The man behind the camera, the producer and director is David pair, who does all the stuff for the dead daisies. If you've seen it, check out the new dead daisies video, we're going to ride. Any of the stuff they've done the last couple of years David is the man behind the camera he's a full time dead daisies videographer creates all their content all their videos is really expensive. He's really worth it. He's got two projects this year, dead daisies and stealer, and we went to Hollywood and did it right. We spent a lot of money and a lot of sweat, muscle and blood to get this new video created and we're going to launch that very soon. And a movie that sprung out of that music video project called stealer legacy it's the entire story of the band from day one with interviews with rock stars and industry execs and interviews with all the guys in the band, telling the story. And the goal was with the with the documentary film to make it to where it's a fun entertaining story, even if you've never heard of stealer, you don't know who Ron keel is or you don't know any of the history. It's one of those stories that tells itself. And we take you back to the sunset strip in 1983 and in every possible way. And it's going to be where we're going to take it to the film festivals Amazon prime and I'm really excited about that that the story can be told and that was really David's. So he said, let's make a movie. And it was his idea. He's a young guy wasn't even alive in the 80s. So he hears about the legacy like we hear about, you know, the Wild West, you know, to these younger people it was the Wild West on the sunset strip in the 80s so he he was enamored with the history and being able to tell that story. So I'm really excited about the movie, the music video, and the single of course, the track give me guitars or give me death will be released as a single to radio at the same time that the video comes out. So Steelers still apparently alive and kicking. Well, I know a lot of people you mentioned early in this discussion that you can barely listen to your vocals on that record anymore. But I grew up in San Antonio and Joe Anthony on 99 five kiss used to play hot on your heels all the time. And I remember me and my friends were just in awe of that. You know, the guitar solo, of course, in your voice. Again, I go back to your voice. Your voice when we all first heard it, it really cut through it had that grit and that balls and it was, it was an amazing combination. So, I think that record holds up. I feel like it's something you could be proud of, even though, you know, like any creative type you look back at some of your early work and you go, wow, I've grown leaps and bounds since then but yeah, I know there's an army of people out there that think that steel. Oh yeah, it's that some for a lot of a lot of people. It's their favorite album of all time is their favorite thing I've ever done I get that I don't want to tread on their memories or their childhood, you know, that that energy that they got from that album. I'm so happy with the vocals and I wasn't happy at the time. I did all the lead vocals on the Steelers record. We had a very short schedule and a very tight budget. I did the vocals at the time I was taking voice lessons from Sabine, who was an amazing vocal coach in Southern California at the time she was a little teeny Australian lady who could just scream her guts out. She was my teacher, she also coached Michael sweet from striper, Axel Rose, and I don't think it's any secret that all those guys are still belting it out to this day. We're all still using her training. At the time, I was conflicted with trying to do things her way and wanting to do things my way, not really comfortable in the studio yet. I was really young. And so I was conflicted. I didn't like the results on the original vocal sessions. So I asked Mike Barney, the producer, I said, man, you know, you've got to let me recut these, you know, I get it kind of give me one more shot at these vocals. And he said, well, when English done with his guitar solos, then whatever times left, we have, we had 40 hours, I think, that was it was 40 hours. And whatever 30 hours we had 30 hours to cut the whole record. Whatever times left when English done, you can have whatever's left to recut whatever vocals you want. It's the last day of the session. It was quick, you know, to his credit, man, he, he went in and just threw it down. It was very, his lead guitarist solos went very quickly that day. And I'm looking at the clock going, I know we're done at one o'clock, your album's finished, whether it's done or not, you're, you're off the clock. There's, there, he's not spending an extra $30 to stay here another hour to let me sing. We may got done at nine o'clock that night, our time is up at one a.m. that night. So I had four hours to recut the entire record and I just will boom, boom, boom, take, take, take, then listen back to anything. So that, that, for the most part is the result that you hear on that stealer record but, you know, I am proud of it. I'm proud that it had such an impact on our culture. I'm proud that people love it. And I did have to revisit that when we put stealer back together in 2019 was our first show and, what, 35 years for the kill best event in Columbus, Ohio. And I hadn't sung that I did cold in hell, maybe, you know, it's serenade has always been a part of my solo acoustic gig, but I hadn't touched any of those songs or listened to that record in a long time. But in order to rehearse for the show, I had to go back and revisit it and listen to it and sing along with it a bunch. And I did develop a newfound fondness. I don't say I'm not going to like it, but, you know, there is, there's some special moments on there. And it's just amazing that we were there at that time in 83 with an album that became a cornerstone and a foundation of that entire era and genre. Yeah. Hey, what was your, what was your first vinyl appearance. Oh my God, it was even worse than the stealer album. It was called home grown. It was a battle of the bands in Nashville. This is 1980. Okay, far out. And we won the battle of the bands might be a lust. How old were you. 19. 19. All right. Yeah. Cool, cool, cool. And. I got a long story about that. Did you win studio time or something? We did. We got. Yeah. We were going to be on a compilation album with the other five finalists, you know, the five best bands in Nashville at the time. And that immediately, I just joined the band a week before. Well, they were begging me. Come on. We need a singer. We got a gig. We need a singer. And I did it just because they wouldn't quit bugging me. And so I did the gig. And it was my first time walking out in a sold out room, nice big club in Nashville. And the audience went nuts with the fists in the air and screaming response. It was so electric. Like a drug and you get addicted to it very quickly. Because I had never experienced an audience reaction quite like that. So we crushed it and took first place in the battle of the bands. Next week you're in the studio recording a two songs, which ended up being side A and side B that the first tracks on either side of that record. And it became a huge hit on the radio in Nashville and the vocals were terrible. What were the names of those songs? One of the songs was called Speed Demon, which I repurposed that title later on, not the same song, but the same title. And the other was called Hooker. And it was just, I learned, I vowed right then and there that I was going to learn how to sing one, come hell or high water. They were going to kick me out of the band. The vocals were so terrible. And I turned on the radio, getting my car to go to work. And I turned on the radio and there it is, man. I can't get away from it. And it was really, really bad. I mean, I was totally green, uncomfortable. And I had a long way to go. I'm glad I finally got there. It took me a long time. But that was my first vinyl appearance. Wow. Well, it couldn't have been, it couldn't have been that fucking bad because. Oh, no, it's bad. Well, hold on. Hold on. Let me interrupt you because it couldn't have been that bad because it was on the radio, you said. Well, whoever was produced. I mean, you won the battle of the bands. Whoever was pressing record in the studio didn't stop, press stop in the middle of your first take and go, Hey, what the fuck is this guy doing? Oh, yeah. Well, it was a rough night, man. Was was Steler on one of the early metal massacres. Steler was the lead track on metal. That's what I thought was a huge break for us. That's what I thought. The first recorded appearance of Metallica, Rat, Steler, and so many others. I'm a proud owner of an early pressing of that. But what's what song is on there? Cold day in hell. That's right. That's right. We had released that as a 45 single and Brian Slal really put us on the map with that. Yeah. At that time, KLS and KBT and Los Angeles were starting to play. They had a local music show on KLS Joe Benson played us on the radio and that combination of getting the air play in Southern California and being on the metal massacre album, which is legendary. Now, as you mentioned, that was the huge break for us. Was it the same recording that's on the Steler album? No. Different recording. Much better vocal on the same same lineup. No, different lineup. Totally different. All different guys. The original band on the single was the original band. And on the metal massacre, that's the original Steler lineup, which was magic. It was a band of brothers that all moved to Hollywood together to follow that dream. And as I said, we're on a mission. And my biggest regret was not being mature enough or a good enough band leader at the time to hold together because there was a lot of magic there. So, one of the songs you mentioned on Kielworld is the Black Sabbath cover, Children of the Grave. And you auditioned for Black Sabbath and even went in the studio and did a little bit of demos or whatever. But first of all, tell me why that choice of cover, why that Black Sabbath song. I want to know why that song is special to you. And then if you don't mind share a little bit about spending time with Tony, I owe me a geyser brother. A few years ago, I was approached by the world's ultimate Black Sabbath fans. His name is Mike Sulebank, Mad Mike, we call him Guy from the UK. And he had, he's the executive producer of a project called Emerald Sabbath, which is how the song is credited on Kielworld to Emerald Sabbath. He assembled a group of Sabbath alumni, all ex members and members of the Sabbath family tree like Rudy Sarso on bass, Vinny Apse on drums, and he invited me to sing. First, it was just one song trashed, the Ian Gillen track off born again. And I did that session, it went great. And he said, I've got a couple more for you. So I ended up singing three tracks on that initial Emerald Sabbath release. Die Young, covering Ronnie James Dio from Sabbath with Vinny Apse on the drum kit, the guy who did the original Heaven and Hell album, of course, and Rudy Sarso on bass, my guitar player from Ron Kiel Band Dave Kothner on guitar. I think Vinny was on mob rules. Bill Ward was on Heaven and Hell. Correct. There you go, Vinny joined in time to do the tour, but Bill Ward. That's right. Correct. Vinny's on mob rules. So my whole story is shot to hell. No, it's not shot to hell at all. No, it's not. Vinny Apse, so he's got these ex Sabbath members and several other members of Sabbath, Beth Bevin, who was in the band when I was in the band. You know, set the record straight there. I still have a signed contract. And I was never fired from Sabbath. So technically, I, I'm still in the band. So Mike's putting the Sabbath tribute project together and it turned out great. I'm really, really proud of the vocals covering Dio, Dylan and Aussie on hold the sky. So I kind of cover all three iconic Sabbath vocalists on that record. And so a couple of years ago, he says, we want to do volume two. We're going to do Emerald Sabbath, volume two, and I want you to sing Children of the Grave. I said, man, that'd be awesome. I'd love to. Under one, at this time, I'll do it for free because he paid me really well for that initial session. I got paid quite handsomely for that, those three songs. I said, I'll do this one for free. If you let me put it on Kielworld on my new album and he was really cool and allowed me to do that. We've got Bobby Rondon, Ellie on drums. Yes. Obviously, it was a member of Sabbath and Rainbow and Fantastic Talent. Great guy. And Neil Murray on bass who toured with Sabbath and was also, of course, a member of White Snake. So you've got some, some heavy hitters on that track Children of the Grave with me and my guitar player, Dave Coughlin, again from Ron Kielbann doing the solo and Mike Dresh, my co-producer, doing all the rhythm guitars on that. So it's, it's an honor to pay tribute to the legacy that is, in my opinion, the founding fathers of Heavy Metal and not just to be a very small thread in that tapestry that is Sabbath. So, is that Emerald Sabbath album exist? Is it? Yes. Absolutely. Yes. It's called Ninth Star Emerald Sabbath.com. Wow. Wow. Wow. Well, you know, we started this conversation about me talking about seeing you on MTV and another guy that I saw on MTV that I thought was just the coolest dude was Bobby Rondon, Ellie. He's in there. I thought you were going to say Jason McMaster. Oh, he's over this shit. I'm over this guy. He's over this car. Yeah, yeah, he's a monster. Yeah, because he's in that rainbow video stone cold and he sit and there's a bit where he twirls the stick and he's just got that big fluffy hair and he just looks like a powerhouse drummer. He just looked totally cool. Yeah, it's a treat to get to work with him. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he played on the original Emerald Sabbath sessions. I think he did. Well, the sky. I'm not sure. It was an all-star cast of ex Sabbath members and Aussie players and so forth. So, I'm really proud to just be lumped into that all-star lineup. Yeah. Well, we'll be able to sing. Finally sing those songs. This is what, you know, 40 years later, maybe, but this is what I would have done had I actually gotten the gig or kept the gig. So how did that, why did that dissolve? What happened there? Spencer Proffer had signed on to produce the next Sabbath record. Spencer had produced quiet riots, mental health. So he was the hot hand in town. He put metal on the charts. Sure. Spencer was the guy. Right. And so he had signed on to produce the new Sabbath record. And he's the one who got me the gig. So the new Sabbath album would have been afterborn again. That's correct. Okay. He got me the gig in Sabbath and we started meeting Tony and Geezer and I would meet daily and try and plot out some stuff. We weren't working on any new material. Tony gave me a song list and this is what we're doing on tour and learn this and I met with their management and we did the contract and all that stuff. But Spencer was trying to turn black Sabbath into an 80s hair metal band. He wanted it to do outside material. He had songwriters writing songs for Sabbath. Wanted to turn them into an MTV 80s hair band. And Sabbath wasn't having any of that. Tony and Geezer weren't going to bite. And they fired Spencer. I got caught in the crossfire and that's how I ended up being in a band called Kiel. Wow. Well, in Kiel, you got to work with, you mentioned earlier, Gene Simmons produced not one, but two of your records, which is pretty incredible. And at that time, Gene and Paul were kind of out, you know, trying to produce the next big band or, you know, they were out in Hollywood and kind of making the rounds and trying their hand at producing. Now, a lot of people would say that maybe this is just a couple rich guys trying to dabble in production, but obviously they're from a successful band. So, as a producer, was Gene a real technical hands on kind of guy, or was he more of like a guru spiritual vibe guy that was just a good spirit to be around in the studio. He was the coach of the team. And when you're producing an album or directing a movie, or you're the coach, you might not necessarily be the guy behind the camera, but you are overseeing the entire process. From every kick beat and Gene taught me so much during the course of our years of working together, how the kick drum works with the right hand of the bass guitar and how those patterns have to match and mesh. How to how to craft great songs, how to layer guitars and vocals and capture the attitude in the studio he taught me so many lessons that I could go on and on, but one of those lessons was real strict preparation to where, like I said, he had every kick pattern mapped out. Everything was, the game plan was set in place, right, but don't be afraid to go off script and experiment or try something if it doesn't work you'll know it doesn't work. So he had that great combination of real solid strict preparation before you hit the studio, but also being reckless and and throwing that game plan out the door and experimenting and try and do stuff and really even changing song arrangements on the spot in the studio. I hear a bridge here, and let's put a bridge in the middle of this song or whatever that we hadn't rehearsed or prepared for. I still carry that same philosophy with me into every session I do. I've got to be totally prepared, and I've got to be totally unafraid to experiment or try new stuff when I hit the studio so just one of the many lessons I learned from Gene, he's always the little demon on my shoulder and every recording session. I love it, I love it. I wanted to go back real quick to keel world I think my I've only been listening to it for a couple days because I've only had it in my hands a couple days, or on my computer rather. But the two tracks that I keep coming back to is the iron horse track guitar in what is it guitar in the grave. I love that. And, and the taking me back song, which is Ron keel band. Tell me a bit about this to spend some time on iron horse because I don't think people maybe don't know that one as much as maybe the wrong keel band stuff. Thank you I appreciate that that's certainly a special song for us and for seven years from 2000 to 2007. The iron horse fans didn't know who keel was either, because unless we played right to rock in the show and you've got 25 year old kids with their fists in the air. Iron horse had a whole different band base and a whole. It was my vehicle for seven years. We released two great albums and 2001 and 2004 toward the country coast to coast countless times, thousands of gigs, a lot of great memories and a lot of, a lot of fans that fell in love with me. And my music during that period, a lot of those iron horse fans became keel fans because of that band. It was the bridge between my country years and the metal cowboy who I am today iron horse was. Hillbilly heavy metal rock and roll soul it was just a hard rock and southern country metal, you know, very much like rock he'll band with a different name, you know, we were not afraid to play any of the keel material we played saber tiger we played all the stuff from my entire career and released two great original albums, a lot of great memories. And once I had a keel track moving target once I had, give me guitars or give me death I had some running the keel songs I knew I wanted to do a couple of solo tracks. I knew I wanted to Sabbath track, I think we've got to have an iron horse track on this record at seven years of my life in my when I was in my prime and a project that is very well loved and liked by my hardcore band base. So, looking for the right song if you only get one song kind of like the stealer song, you only get one stealer song on the record what's it going to be it's got to be something that really captures the vibe and the attitude and the sound of that project. And it's guitar in the grave is one of those songs that really, the best way I can tell you this is that Gino RC my bass player who's been with me 26 years. He played on three different projects on this record he's in keel, he's in Ron keel band and he's an iron horse. So I sent Gino the record when it came out last week, and last weekend he's listening to it with his family, and he's got to see the on the player and they're all at the pool and just listening to the to the new album with his kids. And his daughters grew up in the iron horse era, in 2005 and you know that was there were they were teenagers then. Yeah, and they grew up listening to it so they're listening to the album. And he's not telling them that stealer. Oh, this is wrong keel. Oh, this is wrong keel. He's not telling them which band is on which track. Right. He's playing the record top the bottom for his kids and his daughter goes, that's iron horse. And she knew she knew when she heard the track. That's iron horse there's something special about the song and the men who played it. And I knew when I knew this this is the song for iron horse. Yeah. And the guys did an amazing job on the session. It's a standout track for me. I really enjoyed that one. It means a lot. And the and taking me back, I, man, if there's any justice in the world, that should be all over the radio. Wow, cool. And that's one of the first responses that I got to that I wasn't sure how people would respond to that or it really for that matter, any of the wrong keel band songs. Because that's my baby. Those are my songs. That's my baby that I'm so close to it during the process of writing and recording. I knew I loved it. You know, I love these songs and I'm going to finish them. I'm going to release them and we'll see what the chips fall where they make. Yeah. And so I had no idea about five o'clock shadows or taken me back. That's why taking me back is a deep cut, so to speak. It's not like not in a position of prominence in the sequence. Right. So to hear that that compliment to there that you just gave me on that song really means a lot because it's very special to me. It's real. It tells a story. And I think at the core of that message lyrically, that's the common thread that binds us all together this day and age. We all want to go back, man. That's why we all want to go back to our own neighborhood. We all want to go back to our hot high school girlfriend. Hopefully she's still as hot now if she was, you know, I think you want to go back on stage and share this feeling with your. Well, the first verse is about my old hometown. Second verse is about my old my ex girlfriend. The third verse is about the audience because I want to always continue to fight to get back on that stage and back in front of the people that matter. I think that's why it resonates with me. It's that timeless universal theme and you just said it right there. You said it all right there. We can't relate to that, you know. I love it because when I hear a song like that when it's done well, it makes me go back through my memory lane. You know, so I'm not Ron Kiel, but I've had those similar experiences. So Ron Kiel's song puts me on that path back to my past. Right on. And it's a lot of good memories. And as you said, it's just a timeless universal theme. Seems to be that seems to be a dear amen to that. That seems to be quite a different lyrical approach than how you described moving target. You know, you very different. I don't want to say cheese. You use the word cheese, you know, 80s metal cheese, whatever I get. I get that. I'm all about that. But at the same time, you know, the way that I don't know, you know, Springsteen or Dylan or, you know, someone who's a storyteller, Willie Nelson, you know, Cash, all the greats who were storytellers. I don't even know if those guys are all I would even consider. It's more it's like folk music. It's like lyrically you're you're you're going through these memories and you're writing this, this story of a time. And I think that when you grab an audience or when you grab someone's ears, right? I feel like that is the complete opposite from what you're talking about. You know, oh, I'm a moving target. I got a target on my back and you're, you know, it's, it's different than rattling off this screaming, hard rocking metal. When you're telling a story, it's not you don't have time for that. Yeah, there's some cheese, though, and taking me back. There's cheese all over this record. Maybe, maybe a different flavors of cheese, but taking me back is the same way. It's not it's not Shakespeare or, you know, whatever it's sure I don't mean to be back to where I want to be. I don't mean to get so romantic, but, but the point, the point, I think that you get it by way of that's why it hit David. I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, that's just a universal theme. There's a great song that Eddie Money did in the 80s called I Want to Go Back. And it's the same thing. Yeah. The videos him walking through his old high school. I mean, it's just something we're all, and you can call it cheesy if you want to, but we can all relate to it. So, I really do, man. I got no problem with it. I recently wrote a song called "Punks in the Street." And it's exactly about what you're talking about, Ron. It's exactly about, you know, I only visit in the hall. I only visit this town in the holidays. It's my hometown. I'm going back for what family is left here to just, you know, I turned down my old street and this shit is not the same anymore. You know, I just wish it was. So, it's that whole thing. And goddamn, we used to rip this neighborhood apart. Yeah. My friends set this place on fire. And all your back hurts. Right. Right. Well, that song that you're mentioning, David, taken me back. I actually cut that in my old hometown in Phoenix, Arizona. I cut the vocals and guitars at full wall recording there. And to get to the studio from where I was staying, every morning I would go to the gym. And I would drive by my old high school. And I would see the Coliseum. You literally go outside to have a smoke at the studio. And there's the Coliseum right behind the studio. And this is veterans Memorial Coliseum, where I would wait in line all night long to buy a $7 ticket to see Ted Nugent, where I went to all my childhood concerts, and then eventually ended up finally getting a gig there on tour with Motley Crew. And back in the day, I would go fight my way to the front row and be right in front of the barricade because I was big and tall, you know, turn around. And I just watched the audience pretend I was on stage. So to get back to that venue, or it was a big hometown, homecoming gig. My mom and dad were there, my sister, all the ex girlfriends, all the ex bandmates. They're all out there. We're opening for Motley Crew. It's sold out. And I'm finally on that stage again. So I, every, every day, even that day of that session, when I cut that song, I was literally walking the streets of my old hometown. That's awesome. All right, one more quick question and we'll let you go. I know we promised we'd let you go at a reasonable time. I have to ask you, you mentioned Mark Ferrari earlier, and he brought that great piece of music to the Kielworld album. There's a Pantera connection between Mark and you, and Pantera's power metal album. Yeah, we love those guys, man. We made friends with them when they sent us a cassette tape. I still have it literally 10 feet away from me right now. Pantera sent us a cassette tape when they were a cover band, and they were covering Kiel's back to the city. And so they sent us the cassette and I actually still have it. So we became friends with them through that process. Every time we'd go through Dallas, they meet us at the gig. And then we'd go to the strip clubs, you know, they always knew how to throw a party. And so we became friends with them through that process. And we had cut a demo of proud to be loud for the 87 album. It didn't make the cut, but Pantera picked it up and the rest is history. Yeah, yeah. Amazing little footnote there. That's incredible. Ron, thank you so much. We won't keep you any longer. We wish you all the success in the world moving forward. Kielworld is a great snapshot of your career. And what I love about it is it's not a greatest hits from the past. It's all those entities coming together and offering new songs. So congratulations for three years of hard work and pulling all those people together and putting that album together. I know you're probably really proud of it because it does sort of capture your entire career up to this point. So I am, and I really appreciate the opportunity and the invitation to come on and talk about it with you guys, your viewers, your listeners. I know we've been trying to put this together for a while. So thanks for your patience. Now we got something to talk about. Exactly. Yeah, the time was perfect. Yeah, we appreciate you Ron. Thanks so much on behalf of my co host, Jason McMaster. I'm Metal Dave along with our special guest today, Ron Kiel on the Talk Louder podcast. [Music]
