Live95 Limerick Today Podcasts

Limerick pubs in decline

Paul Flannery joins Joe to discuss the huge number of pubs closing in Limerick each year

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Duration:: 15m
Broadcast on:: 04 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

You're views, your news, your limerick today with Jonet online 95. Are you still visiting your local pub? A recent survey from the drinks industry group of Ireland has found 170 pubs have closed their doors in Limerick since 2005 and that figure does not compare favorably. With other parts of the country, it is very much on the high end of pub closures around the nation and Limerick publican and vietner's representative Paul Flannery is with me now to talk a little bit more about it. Good morning to you Paul. Good morning Joe, how are you? I mean, what's your reaction to that figure, does it all surprise you? No, not at all. It's worrying. I think everyone has seen the decline in city and rural areas across the not just Limerick across the whole country over the last couple of years with reductions in pub closing. There's a number of pressures on the pub sector and it really is just pushing people out of the industry because it's not a financially valuable for a lot of people anymore. Is that the main factor, do you believe? It's a financial issue for those pubs that are feeling the pressure. Yeah, I think, listen, obviously the whole culture around drinking has changed. The offerings there at the moment now are completely different than what it were 5-10 years ago. Like if you were to say 5-10 years ago, we'd be setting 0-0 Guinness, lagers, sliders, jins, wines. You've probably been locked up 5-10 years ago but it's a valuable option though and people do come out for it. So the whole culture around drinking has changed but the costs are also increasing so we're under pressure to actually meet the costs, cover our costs, pay our bills, pay our staff, insurance, everything like that. So trying to match up and make sure it's a worthwhile industry to be in and pay its way because nobody wants to be working for nothing as it is so it's worrying and it's putting people in the pressure, probably call the put, focus on it for a lot of people to realize is this a realistic option for me going forward to keep the doors open 7 days a week from 10-13 in the morning till close in time at night and a lot of pubs have realized that it isn't a valuable option. They're reducing their hours, they're reducing their operating days because covering costs, staffing, everything with it, it's just not an option so we're looking to see how we can actually support the industry across the whole country, not just Limerick because we do need support from the government. Right. Well, we asked on our socials how often people visit their local pub, 15% of those who responded said weekly, 0% interestingly said fortnightly, 45% said monthly and 40% said not any more Paul. Yeah, you can see it, you can see it definitely the trend, it's more of a, for some people it's an event driven industry now where people are going to the pubs for birthdays, for events going to matches, coming from matches, anniversaries, engagements and so on, depending on the demographic of the respondents to that in terms of their age profile. Some pubs you see people coming in because it's their only social interaction with anybody during a day, so it is vital in certain areas of the country, particularly in rural areas for people to go to meet and they might not necessarily drinking, they might be having teas and cafes, but as to meet and greet and have chats with people. So it's definitely an option we need to try and support and keep open as much as possible. What about the variety of pubs, you know, I'm talking to people who have visited Limerick over the years and compared to maybe their own hometowns, they would say that Limerick had a range of pubs, you know, from the super pub type effort to quite a lot of cozy and even old-fashioned pubs, is there a particular part of that that is being lost? In terms of pubs closing, I think you probably see more pubs closing with that are probably family-run and family-operated because they're small operations and just trying to meet a family, keep the doors open and actually pay a wage for a family. It's not viable in certain areas. Limerick, for example, have some huge and fantastic offering of pubs from the superpobes to the gastropobes to the small family-run pubs. So I personally think and probably being biased, Limerick probably has some of the best pubs in the country that people just, we don't seem to realise what we have on our doorstep, but trying to keep the supporting the pubs open as much as possible is key. So people's lives are changing, the people's reasons for going to the pubs are changing, but also we do need to see what, there's no point in just opening at weekends because it wouldn't be a financial offering for pubs to, we do need to pay staff, we need to keep it open and so on, we need to pay bills. It is interesting, isn't it? Because you hear more and more about restaurants in Limerick that are opening on a restricted basis. You know, coming out of COVID, some of them looked at it and said, "You know what? Take staffing and everything into account, including the numbers coming into us midweek. We'll open Thursday, Friday, Saturday and some cases." Yeah, and you're seeing that across the board, not just restaurants with pubs as well. Part of that is staffing, coming out of COVID, we have a huge issue with staffing in terms of getting people to actually work the hours. That's slowly changing, but it is still a key factor in terms of actually getting people to cover the hours, but also you're looking at it. Is it viable to actually open on certain days of the week, the Mondays, Tuesday, Wednesdays, for restaurants, for example, is it a viable option? Are people going to come out because obviously you've got to pay staff, you've got to have cookers, ovens, everything on, which the utility builds, our country roof, businesses suffer like everybody else in the country from the right range of inflation increase. So it's just trying to see, match it and see what is the best way for the businesses to actually operate. Yeah. We're chatting to Limerick public and Paul Flannery. You scratch your head in ways because there is a sense of a growing population. If you look at the CSO for Limerick City and County, indeed, and we've had lots of jobs and announcements, we're at relatively full employment. We're seeing more cranes in the air and you're getting increasingly a big city feel, but we don't seem to need, frankly, the kind of social side that you would expect us to need on scale. Yeah. And the part of that is the offering we have and trying to get people into the city, in particular, the county area is different, but the city, for example, is slightly different and trying to get people into some of the great polls we have and there's issues then around getting people to and from taxi services are basically going to be getting to and from the pubs and restaurants, but also there's a safety factor and there's a big anti-social issue in Limerick City at the moment and we're engaging with the Guardian Council to actually try and work on it, to address it because people want to feel safe when they come into the city and actually feel comfortable walking around the streets from pub to pub, restaurant to pub and so on. So there's a number of factors influencing why people are going out or not going out as the case may be. Yeah. So what about the mayor's plans in this respect? You know, what did you think, for example, of his effort in the Crescent on O'Connell Street and he has talked even about engaging some private security, possibly from his own discretionary budget to work with the Guardian and other initiatives to focus on the city centre and indeed some town centres around Limerick? Yeah. I think the jury's out on the sand pit in the Crescent's Tuanas, I'm not sure whether it's a it was a runner from the start, the issues of cars with traffic and so on, but listen, as a whole, I think that directly elected mayor needs to be given time to actually address all the issues that are causing problems around across Limerick and get up and running. I think that the private security issue is a brilliant idea to support a Guardian. Obviously, they're not going to be making arrests, but you can see the presence on the street with high vis jackets, be it guards or security, does make a difference and in fairness, I see it on the streets only recently. The Guardian are addressing a number of issues on the streets as they see them and there is a little bit of increased presence on the street from the Guardian, which is great to see with what John Morne is doing in terms of the security, private security, to actually help assist the Guardian addressing issues and highlighting issues where they are. It can only be good for the city because the more presence you have on the street will help support the local businesses from the local news agents to the restaurants, the cafes to the pubs and restaurants. Yeah, and as I mentioned, we're not just talking about the city pub industry. We know that it's impacting in the similar or maybe slightly different ways in rural Limerick as well and previously on the show, former councillor Emmett O'Brien was talking to us. Look, obviously society has dramatically changed over the last 30 years, but you still have a number of staples. You still have people attending mass, obviously in large numbers, which is obviously a focal point for meeting on Saturdays and Sundays, QGA communities and obviously South Korean communities and other sporting associations, but the ongoing fulcrum, I suppose, for social cohesion and meeting still remains, to a large degree, the pub, the pubic house, it's just not literally drinking alcohol in there as well. Many people go in for non-alcoholic drinks and just have a chat, meet up, shoot the breeze, get out of the house, clear the head. You saw how important that was during COVID. You know, there was obviously a lot of people who found it hard to be on their own. It's a social outlet and it's something that's a part and part of our culture. For good and for bad. And from what you are seeing and hearing and talking to people around your area and the wider Limerick area, are pubs under significant pressure? Well they are. I mean, there's no question. I mean, there's also been a kind of a change in habits as well. I mean, I think the overall alcohol consumption in public houses has reduced significantly over the last number of decades, home consumption, which is not always ideal, has increased dramatically off-licensed sales. And obviously then, you know, the pretty obvious impact of road traffic as a station, a guard up patrolling, drink driving, things of that nature have reduced down the numbers of patrons who want to pubs, cost of insurance, this high cost of insurance, this is no question about that. And just a general change in culture as well, I suppose, you know, it just has reduced down the number of people attending pubs. So pubs, which were always a booming trade up until the 1990s, now you see a lot of closing per capita. We've heard a lot of pubs closing in rural County Limerick. That's a former Councillor, Emmett O'Brien, focusing on rural Limerick and Limerick public and then return as representative Paul Flannery, who has his business in Limerick City is still with me. Now, I remember when he was Minister for Justice, Michael McDoule talking about trying to develop a cafe culture a bit like Paris in Ireland, and frankly, he was laughed at. But is there a cafe culture now? And is that impacting the pub? The cafe culture is definitely as increased. Whether it's impacting the pub, I would doubt it because, listen, we have a really unique offering in terms of the pub, the Irish pub. People come from around the world to visit the Irish pub, and I think to be like Europe I think is the wrong way to go. We have something unique, we're Irish, we're friendly, we're curious, we're nosy. We want to have a chat, we want to have the crack. That's why people come to the Irish pub. So we don't want to be the same as the rest of Europe. We have something very unique in terms of what we have. And the other thing is, unfortunately, we're getting wetter and colder. So the indoor option, whether it's liked or not, is everybody going to have to be on the agenda. And can I just ask about that? I mean, from outside the industry, people might think, you know, our publicans and restaurant are obsessed with this vat thing, and the desire to get it down to 9%, would it make that much of a difference? Listen, the vat in the 9% thing will help a certain sector, the restaurants and the food sector, more so than the actual pub, what the pub, what the pub, what we need in the pub sector is a reduction in the exercise duty. The exercise duty, we're 10 times higher in the exercise in Ireland compared to Germany, we're the second highest for wine. So literally, if the government made the decision to reduce the exercise duty by 7%, 7.5% this year, it'll make a huge improvement and benefit to the pub sector, because it'll- Right. But would it make it up in some other way in taxes? Because obviously they have to look at everything, including promises they're making around income tax and other things. It'll make it up because we'll be able to reinvest that money in the sector. We can improve employment. We can grow our businesses rather than closing doors. We can build and grow our businesses by getting, if we get this relief in the exercise, it'll put more money into our position to actually increase our offering. We can put money back into our businesses, be it our food offering, outdoor dining, whatever it is, it's improving our businesses, our facilities, hiring more staff to cover more hours. It'll only benefit in the long run. So the government can do something very quickly in the next point, in the upcoming budget, if they choose to, and it will support the business. And they will see an improvement in the incoming incomes to themselves straight away. All right. Thank you very much for talking to us this morning. It's obviously a big topic in your business when you consider that 170 pubs have closed their doors in Limerick since 2005. Yours continues to go strongly, thankfully, Limerick public and Paul Flannery appreciate your time and input this morning. (upbeat music) You