For All You Kids Out There

Episode 478: "Did you ever introduce the show?"

In Episode 478 of For All You Kids Out There, Jeffrey and Jarrett really put the "adjacent" into a Mets-adjacent podcast (despite watching a Mets game while recording). We chat about post-draft performances, Brady versus Mahomes, and the Oasis reunion, but there probably is some Mets content in there somewhere.

Duration:: 1h 57m
Broadcast on:: 03 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

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We're doing the same fucking discourse that we do. For the school in Dora, just got an RBI single to put them up for one. If you want to know that. And once again, the most important numbers in the NL MVP race are the Choyotani. 44 home runs and 46 deals. Yeah, home runs and plays full on bases today. But yeah, the Mets just keep on keeping on. And we keep podcasting about it because that's what we do. We're doing it on Monday night instead of Sunday. We've probably figured it out. I was in a wedding. You were in a wedding? Yes, very nice wedding. Congrats to former podcast guests, Robin Jane. Yes. We'll still see you for the drinking game again this year. Yes, we'll see the orders. We might see Robin the off season. We'll see what we can hope for content. But we still haven't met season to talk about. And yeah, I don't. There's nothing. Like, okay, it's September, whatever, second today. They did roster expansion. They called up the other left-handed young. And they called up Pavlores, which, sure, he pinched round. People are really upset. They didn't call up Louis and how it could, yeah. I mean, you don't need to be upset about it. I don't need to get the argument. So here's what you've got to do. You've got to Google Louis and how Acunya baseball reference and pull up his baseball reference flag. You don't want either of these guys playing regularly. At least Acunya has, like, base running and defensive value. So does Pavlores. He is much less. Pussy? Yes, he is much less. They wouldn't even run him, uh, yesterday. I think it was just about here. And he plays a bunch of positions badly. This is also true. It doesn't matter. This is also true for Jason Dominguez with the Yankees. It's true for a lot of other prospects. Because AAA goes through September now. Yeah, it's like the end of September 25th, I think. You know, if you make the playoffs as deep as the major, like, baseball regular season, teams are very hesitant to call up prospects to sit on the match. Yeah. So unless you have a regular everyday playing time, they won't believe in how Acunya get in those last eight, that's for play. Yeah. I don't know that it necessarily makes a huge difference, but. Well, he sucked there in this year. So, um, you know, that's. If the Mets are in the race, I think there's a decent chance they call him up at the last week of the season. So like a pinch running. I mean, last guy. Especially because in the playoffs, you likely carry more than 13 or even 14 headers. It could go, you know, 14, 12, 15, 11 or pretty common configurations. And if for some reason you do, like. Somebody's day to day and you need to play Pablo Reyes at second base for a game. He's fine. He's fine. He's fine. He's actually a better present baseball player than Louisa and how it could. Probably. I don't also don't think like, I don't know what this scenario is. I actually don't think, I don't think that's probably, I think that's. Yeah. Like a side looked at. He's like a 73 career, OPS plus, which is probably close to his true talent level. I don't know if Acunya can do that in the majors right now. He could not. Well, he makes a lot of contact, but. So let me see. Plus is in. He's having good this year. Whatever. It's your, it's your fucking problem. You have the Mets list. You deal with it. It's not a problem. It's like at the bottom of the top edge. Sure. It's fine. It's remarkably easy. Yeah. This is a better prospect than normal claim got. Like, normal claims probably got to make the one on one. I don't want it, Acunya's not. Finding pictures to put on the one on one and we'll claim it. We don't have anyone to put on the one on one. Right. Is it a better prospect than normal claim? No. Is it a better prospect than shown on top? No. Is he a better prospect than. He's a spy. No. He's a spy as we'll start talking. Yeah. I put them around the bottom of the top. Right. Yeah. Sure. Yes. I've already done this. But I've already done like the initial, you know, the initial sketch out. Well, that's where he's going to be. Sure. That doesn't make him a non prospect. Well, Alex Ramirez is not proud. Alex Ramirez is not proud. I had to. I meant to send you the list today. I mean, the organization by the time this list comes out because he's going to get put on waivers. And you might get caught up. Probably somebody's. The Oakland Athletics are going to claim Alex Ramirez. They like that player type. Right. Or the Angels. Even though they already have an Alex Ramirez that can't hit. Alex Ramirez is a non prospect. Kevin Perat is not making this list either. So, you know, those guys are not those guys are pretty. Those guys are like courtesy three is courtesy four. Right. I was putting together like what prospects for each team like need to be in the annual this year to avoid some issues we've had in the past with guys having to get out of late, whatever. And like Ramirez will make a decision on the 40. And like how being last year's first round pick probably has to be in it. And like Giovanni Rodriguez is the big off a guy probably has to be in it. Which is probably why not perata. Yeah. And like right again, another recent first round pick. But the annual is a different beast than the actual, you know, prospect. Right. It's significantly more important for proud of somebody that people know. Right. And if they pick up the book, it's also like an easy 25 30 word line out. And the Mets don't have like that many guys. You're not talented. They're above it. Twenty two first round draft pick, Kevin pirata. Funny comma. It's a funny way to say you can't. Yeah. Right. And I have no idea who's doing the bad comments. I do not have a team comment chapter of the series. It's first year nine years. I don't have a team. You say that now. But yeah, I told. I told. I told. I don't have a sign. Right. It's too much work, but I'll be doing them one on one. I'm probably going to have one to two us. So. You know, like I didn't just skip that. I have pitched one and somebody else was pitching another cohort and one. I hope they've already pitched it because Frank doesn't listen to our podcast. Now you're fine. You're fine. Frank and Patrick. Oh, that's fine. Yeah. So. Yeah, I don't have an assigned team comment. And part of the reason, like, these are form, right? You I have written every possible funny way to say busted first on traffic socks. And I could do it, but a million other people could do it. Kevin Rata. There's like an obvious like the black parade reference in there or something. Right. Yeah. Yeah. This is a comment I would spend eight to 10 minutes on. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry to break the immersion. I'm also really sorry to any other comment writers that are listening to this, which probably is some people because I know a lot of people like agonize over these comments and take forever to do that. I don't. We just get like this is the same thing. I have I may have I have probably written more comments than anybody that has written for baseball perspectives in the last 10 years. Right. That's like when they had just like people doing eight teams or whatever in the early days, but yeah. In May have. Yeah. I'm probably dead. But like in the modern history of baseball perspectives between the team comments and the one on one. If either. Yeah. It's either you're like. I guarantee you I've written the most comments since I started in the 2017 at. Which is my point for me in most years, I have written the most in the book in that time. But yeah, it's just. There's no easy way to say Kevin Prada's. I mean, there is. I heard it for Joe. Right. Because there's two ways. But there's three ways to write the Kevin Prada line out. Yeah. One is you're wrong. That's true. Sometimes. And one of the things I tend to do in the annual is I back read a pre final draft and go. Absolutely not. Let's replace this with this. And you did that. Sometimes. The second way is to be incredibly mean, which I do try not to do, especially for players who have not earned it. And so he hasn't earned it. He just yeah, he just he can't really hit upper minors pitching and happens. And the other way is turning a joke. And look, I've had some great one liners in. In line outs, but. Was the one you did a. Sweetheart. Like Swahart, was it? No, it wasn't Swahart. It was somebody else. You probably have written up like Swahart comment. I think everybody on staff has it. Sean Gilmart and one is the face one. But I thought there was another one. Is it a Nat? Was it a Nat's line out you did? I don't remember. I know we've mentioned it. Yeah, the Blake Swahart one was me too. Yeah. Blake Swahart released from AAA by the post deadline. Remembering some guy's Nat's was as bad as bleak as it gets for career art. The former top 25 prospect never quite hit enough to let stomach as lousy defense behind the disc. And even his mediocre hitting prowess is going out like Santa Clara. That's what I was a stanchare one of course. My Patrick Murphy. This wasn't a lie now. This is my favorite comment I've ever written. I have to get the right Patrick Murphy. Because there's been multiple paths for Jay's one or the other one. The Jay's one that ended up with other teams. I definitely saw him in like New Hampshire at some point. I feel like our cards are not. Yeah, it'll happen. Our player cards are not complying with me trying to pull this up. And I don't know if I have it. I mean, I haven't somewhere because I have a copy of the book somewhere. But we really don't. Like we're not that star for content. For content. We're going to go to your emails and other correspondence in a minute. Yeah. This is God. There's like five Patrick Murphy's on our part. Yeah, of course. I think this is the right one. We're going to find out in 30 to 90 seconds. Sure. I've been loading faster for me lately. Yeah, it did. Not to be confused with Patrick Murphy, the former blue dog house Democrat. Of course. Yeah. More recently, President Obama's final secretary of the army. Or Patrick Murphy, the former no labels house Democrat from Florida, who's later asked that it said in election to Marco Rubio. This Patrick Murphy is a hard throwing off injured reliever who got claimed off waivers from the Blue Jays in August. We apologize if you're also named Patrick Murphy, but two centrist politicians, the earlier spins it right down the middle all the time. It's enough mediocrity for one comment. Like that's basically what you have to write for Kevin Parrata at this point. Yeah. You like because if you actually break down his game, it just gets like sad. So you'd have to be funny and dismissive. And I know there are people, probably including people who listen to this podcast, who really don't like those jokes in the annual, but it's what we do. It's the house town. It's the house town. It's the house town. Yeah. Until it's because it has been the house town since Sam, that Sam and Wod, Sam and Wojo. Yeah. Which in fact, it's specifically referenced in the email they sent every year. Mm-hmm. So yeah, that's what you have to do for Kevin Parrata and Alex Ramirez and, you know, Oconee is probably a little better than that. Yeah. And Colin Hauck, I think you actually have to talk about this year at least. Yeah. I mean, we actually talked about Colin Hauck on this podcast. We have not since like May. Yeah. He had like, how about some of the worst, I don't know if it has some of the worst wiff rates against breaking balls I've ever seen in my life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like 80% in sliders, he has no, he can't hit a breaking ball. Like, and this is why... We can't recognize a breaking ball. This is like fake, bright, snarper in trouble with the curves level of can't hit a breaking ball. Right. This is not Jared Kellenake level. Can't hit a breaking ball. Jared Kellenake level can't hit a breaking ball. Still gets you to the majors. Right. Especially when you hit a ball as hard as Jared Kellenake does. Colin Hauck can't hit a breaking ball against you at least like three years after the draft. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's a director we're head on here. Which, again, that doesn't mean he's... Yeah, we said that about, you know, Nick Morbito, Habermany. All right. Nick Morbito is not a great prospect. Orbito was never this bad. No, he was never this bad. He was never this bad over a lengthy... Right. It was post draft, so it's a little more, you know, excusable, I guess. And he wasn't even great last year. And the fact that he got sent back to the complex was an overage prep seven figure guy is not great. And he wasn't, like, great in low A. He's a better prospect right now than Hauck is. Oh, yeah. He's on the fringes of the top 20. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he might. I wouldn't... You know, Hauck... And you can... Hauck guy that's supposed to be a polished hit-tool guy. You know, polished physical overage hit-tool guy goes to St. Louisi. And in 454 played appearances, he's hitting 205 and he's stuck at 166 times. It's an empty. Yeah. It's an empty. Yeah, wait a minute. They wanted... It's like 309. He's got a 100... He's not hitting... He's not hitting for contact power or anything, really. Yeah. And, like, it's... They kind of wanted it both ways. Like, they talked about the advanced hit-tool, but also he hadn't really focused on baseball full-time. Right. I'm sorry. You can't... Like, well, yeah, it's... Yeah. And, like, look, we didn't hate that pick at the time. I know you got it. We liked that pick. We liked it. I want a McGonagall. I would have been right. If you go back to the draft screen, we liked that pick. We did. Go back to a podcast a couple of weeks later, all of a sudden... Yeah. Well, a lot of... The org feedback wasn't... People have predicted this particular problem to us. Yeah. I don't think as bad as it's been, but yes. No. What kind of... Even, like, the org feedback was even while we would have taken him, like, a round later, which is not like he's a nonprofit. Right. The feedback we got was he wasn't worth the money they picked. Sure. Yeah. Which is usually the feedback. Right. We had a third, a fourth, a fifth round grade on him. We had a million dollar bonus on him. Right. And they gave him over slot at 32. And that... Look, one of the issues that we've had in spinning up our draft covers, I can run our draft coverage for the last two years. Which, again, doesn't this... You know, Ben wrote more than I did this year, but I was doing a lot of behind the scenes type work and trying to run this particular stuff right down. Right. People don't want to actually tell you what they think of you. Especially the prep hitters that aren't obviously going to be off the board by the time they pick... Or even in the second round, right? Right. You just don't want... And I've spent essentially two years straight trying to build up trust with certain amateur people so I can get this type of information ahead of time. And I think we did better this year than we did previously, although... I just like... I don't know how to fix the problem of the second round picks because there's information there that... That'd be a lot to be boning who wants to actually sign, yeah. There's information that only specific teams have. Right. Like, Cal Fountain was on campus when he agreed to sign with the Padres. Nobody thought he was signable. Correct. Except the Padres, yeah. And they were correct. Yes. Everybody thought Tyler Bell was signable and wasn't. He didn't sign. Well, that doesn't mean he wasn't signable, but... Well, whatever. I thought he was eager to sign. Eager to sign, okay. Not sign, right? You know, and it's a lot easier to get people to talk to you about this stuff after the draft. Right, when they... You know, this is a... This is not a high school guy, but it's very specific. It's a podcast and I've already admitted it. We had the problem with Carson Ben, right? Right. After... before the draft, you know, you're kind of talking to generalities and he was a guy that was in play for teams as high as the top player. But he was trying to get to the back of the round, so like nobody wanted to talk to him. Nobody wants to blow up their underslaw. Everybody was in on him. It turns out after the draft that he was in everybody's mix from, you know, the back half of the top ten all the way down. And most... a lot of those teams, he was like second or third place on the ricks, and you start, you know, multiple conversations within... 24 hours of that pick. No, no, you guys on the public side all missed that it wasn't inconsistent swings. It was actually a full swing change, but he isn't. Which, look, nobody had that. Mikey Donatello just wrote a draft review for the Mets based on their early season pro and, you know, video clips that were... the bridge league that they're playing down against like Cardinals and Marlins and the Astros and the Nets. And he specifically pointed out, and Mikey's a college analytics guy, so he is, you know, very adept at this type of analysis. He's also, you know, got to be somebody in a few years if he's like baseball, right? You know, he pointed out the exact, like, that he had a lunge issue and wrote about it, and some of them did a very nice job on it. But, yeah, I mean, he was... he basically had bad spinal posture, which was causing him to lunge at pitches, presumably to try and hit stuff lower in his own. He doesn't beat the ball in the fucking ground. That's what'll happen, yeah. And then all of a sudden mid-season, these guys swing change, and he looks like Cody Bellinger. If you are sitting on Carson Benj for the better part of the season, you're going to know that. If you have extremely high level data and video tools that we don't really have, you're going to know that. If you're just picking up some random names, you're going to think he has an inconsistent swing. He has an inconsistent swing. What Cody Bellinger has in his hands. Yeah, fair. Yeah. Sure. The good Cody Bellinger swings are very good. It's extraordinarily common. God, Kevin Pron is a great example of this. We'll call it Gen Pro. For hitters at this level, that really exists in swing mechanics. You know, they just... Well, especially if you're going through a specific mid-season swing change, too, right? You might all weigh muscle memory. Yeah, but that's not even... that's not even... No, I know. But depending on where you caught it... Yeah, over the long haul you can feel. You guys not take their best swings or have the collegiate hitting coach wants them to ping that to make it a lot easier to do this type of stuff, too, right? So, you know, and there's information sometimes that you get, you know, and it's like, what do you do with it? Look, every single person I talk to about Charlie Condon, who worked for a professional baseball team in the six weeks leading up to the draft, mentioned the issue that we will euphemistically call his home road sports. Yes. Georgia. I mean, they are home road. He has home road sports. He has home road sports. Right. Georgia is not a particularly, you know, raw, hater-friendly park, right? It's in the S.C. and... So a bit much of the team. Yes. And I... So you didn't wear the Casey Collins, who the Mets signed in the... Or Corey Collins. The Mets signed in the sixth round. Yes. And I had a lot of conversations leading into the draft about whether Charlie Condon was going to be able to hit pro-break. Wow. And I will leave some of the rest of that dangling. But I mean, look, other people wrote about it. It's not... This isn't... And look, Charlie Condon went to high A. Charlie Condon has a two to 27 walk to start the outreach, you know, in 86 plate appearances. His contact rate is horrible, and he's not hitting for any power. Northwest League plays has not been a great place to hit this year, and it's like... But Spokane is. Spokane usually is, yeah. And also, yeah, it's not a great place to hit. A two to 27 walk to start the outreach. That's not... That theoretically has, like, elite scoring decisions and some pretty good contact. DJ Stewart in the field. DJ Stewart in the field. And you start looking at his wiffery against breaking balls, and it looks like borderline Colin Hallock asked. What the fuck are we doing with this guy on the one on one? Yeah. Well, that's a conversation for November. Right. So, here's... And I was talking about this with somebody else in media yesterday, actually. I can add it. It was literally my wife, my wife. You're right. I love that. Someone in sports media, my wife. Yeah, I don't. Yeah. So, we're, like, talking about, you know, because we were talking about, you know, who's the number on prospect right now? Or who's going to be the number one prospect when will the Camoneiro holiday graduate? I don't know if they have, or... But they're all... Holiday, I think, already has wood in Camoneiro. Well, yeah. Yeah, they're all going to by the end of the series. And, you know, it's just, you know, bullshitting over names. And she asked about content. And I was like... You don't think so. Like, you know... Look, we had this number on prospect of the draft. And look, there's... If I was rerunning that list, I'm not sure he would be ahead, of course, of 10. But, look, there's bad... There's just, like, regular, bad post drafts, right? That's not... Right, no, this is... Particularly... But this specifically... There's specific things here that are concerning. Right, yeah. But it's like how... Look, we did not dismiss those before the draft. No. But it was very hard to... Way them. There were teams that did not have him in the top couple of players. Right. Like Travis Bizana, for example, is not killing IA right now. But he's hitting 256, 384, 451, which is, you know, fine for a guy that's played along season. There were absolutely teams that had Bizana ahead of other teams. Yeah. There were teams that had the very good, as I recall. But there were... There... Another hole actually hasn't been. Hasn't been? I know you have to get started. He's got hardly on walkie, on, like, balls and... Oh, yeah. He's playing in Palm Beach, and he has more walks. He's running, like, a 12% carry. He's probably fine. Well, I mean, it's slugging 286. Again, it's not great, but it's... This is not not a problem, but... Sure, it's not... It's a different... Look, I... You know... How much do you trust to say all those Cardinals hitting development, right? Fair enough, yeah. Yeah, like, I mean, this is not... This is an organization which not that many years ago... Chase Davis is on his, like, third swing change this year. Right. This is an organization which not that many years ago was at the forefront of hitting development, and the times have changed, and I don't think... I mean, like, his underlying is fine. Like, it's not super concerning. We're not as concerned about him as Charlie Condon. Like, whatever. He's like... You know, it's more or less what you'd expect. No, but... Were there teams that Chase were ahead of Condon? Yeah. Were there teams that had Jack ahead of Condon? Yeah. Were there teams that had taken Smith ahead of Condon? Yeah. Do I know individual people that have Bracerator ahead of Condon? Yeah. Um... Do I... Did any of the... This was a... It was a tough loss, the eval. Yup. Um, there was a pretty clear top tier of talent, and then within that top tier of talent, I think reasonable minds could reasonably disagree. But I... What should I kind of do better than Chris Moore right now? The argument for this play is that he made these tremendous jumps quit. Right. And that there's tons of present hitting evaluation ability here. And now he goes... It's like the thousand this year. Right. Now he goes somewhere and he looks like the guy who couldn't get on the field two years ago again. That's... I don't want to be overly reactionary. I am aware that my reputation within industry is... Are you? ...reactionary. So I don't want to be overly reactionary. However, this is a data point, and it's a really troubling one. And it's not going to be a large sample, but it's going to be 120, 130. Yeah. Played appearances by the end of the... We're going to hear about instructs, and you're probably going to run into them and instructs. Might make a point of it, honestly. Yeah, you probably should. Yeah, there actually was. I could do some other... Yeah. I'd stay in Scottsdale anyway, so it's not going to be there. That would be a good... That would be priority instructs for me. Or if he's in the AFL, that would be priority AFL. He might go the AFL. Yeah. They also might just say... Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Try to go ahead. It's February. Yeah. But you start... Again. You look at Kim, and you look at Carson Betch. All right. Sure. They were 20 spots apart on draft bus. I have already stated that we blew the Benji Bell. Yeah. But we would do it a... You had a bench, probably. Fringe top 10. If you did it again. Yeah, probably 12. Yeah. 12, 15, something like that. We would not have had him in that top tier of... For the next round, we'd Christian Moore. But he would have been able to stay back. He would have been in the next group. Let's make this not Carson Betch. Let's make this a player that we really liked in the draft. Camp Smith. Camp Smith. Yeah. Camp Smith has been incredible. Yeah. He has been as good as you could like... He is hitting 357, 459, 714. And about the same amount of played appearances as Charlie Condon at low A and high. The brutal. The brutal beach is a worse place to hit than any of the places we have just named. Significant. Southbound's not a very point. Southbound's not great either. Not a good lead to hit it either. So, you know, the two guys who since we did the draft content in the mid-season 50, who were like on the bottom of the mid-season 50 and have just went absolutely nuts since then, are Camp Smith and Bryce all of it? Yeah. Look, there's a couple of few guys over here, right? Yeah. These are guys that look like they've made real sustainable changes specifically in their projected power output and look that neither of those guys should be surprising on based on their physicality and their top index of velocities and the rest of their skillset. These were like minor, pitch-rec, and elevational changes. In both cases, we fly those as things that we thought were going to happen, but they have. More so with Elders because it's over a larger period of time. Right. Yeah. But, you know, how can I -- how can I -- I have to decide, and you're probably largely going to be deferential to me because these are draft guys. Not entirely, but largely. And we will have pro looks at Smith. He's in South Bend. I'm sure somebody is going to pick him up. I'm sure Nathan will see him. He's sort of strong last year or so. There's video, et cetera, et cetera. But I don't know how I can look at the reports I wrote pre-draft and look at what these guys have done post-draft and say that Condon is a significantly better prospect than Cam Smith. Like, I just -- I don't know how I'm going to do that. Well, we've obviously done more draft stuff, and there's more draft data in video than there was even three or four years ago. But it's imperfect. But it's imperfect, and the pro stuff still matters more. Yeah. It got pound for pound. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, it's -- you've got -- this comes up with IPB. We had a conversation about Brendan's Pro at the other day. And -- Oh, hang on, hang on. We got Brandon's Pro question. Well, let me -- this will be a good question. We are eventually getting to the question. Yeah. This is not going to be a four-hour podcast. I just -- you know, I get the sense that people would rather hear us talk about Cam Smith, Charlie Kahn, and Kevin Parrata, than talk about being burned out or go through the motions about -- Well, everybody -- He did. -- it's not a party only running out balls where he's going to get a counting stat. Like -- Everyone did. Oh, guys, we love you. Emails and Facebook messages. Which is like -- I appreciate it. But also, like, you don't, like, need to flat. That's fine. We're not going to. Like, it -- yeah, I mean, that's -- the people that are sending those emails and messages, look, I really appreciate it. But you're also -- You're not the problem. You're -- you're not the guy on Twitter that I blocked two years ago who's, like, making burners to stop me and send emails to the podcast. You're not the -- you're not, like, the negative obsessive freak. So -- yeah. But, you know, look at this. It's like, okay, Cam Smith's a hell of a defender at third base. It's kind of a defender at third base that people thought that there were teams that, like, would that have been concerning? Short stops. Pro. You know, obviously, these college track records not as long as content, but you look at the, like, the same narrative that went for content also went from Cam Smith. They both were after eligible sophomores. They both went from being at the back of the roster to making drastic front-end improvements. The reason that Condon went a lot higher and we had a lot higher was not just the video game counting stats, but also the video game about a ball stats. But also the tougher quality of competition in the SEC versus the ACC. But that was a pretty significant thing we considered. So now you're saying that the environmental change -- and this is where I'm bringing this road -- that, you know, maybe a lot of that was environmental. And this is where we -- this is easier to granulate with pitchers, right? Right. Then it is hitters, because we have pitch shapes. Haters are more contextual, too, and need a larger sample of batted ball data, too. This is one of the essays. This is the one I pitched myself. We did it with Christian Scott, right? His IVB was X last year, and it's Y this year. There may be reasons for that. Jumping from college to the pros, and then jumping from the minor league levels, which are the low minors in some of AA, to the Southern League in AA, where the balls change, that usually changes pitch shapes. Yeah. Both of those change pitch shapes. And then jumping from AAA to the majors usually changes pitch shapes again. And in almost all -- not all cases, and not every guy's pitch shape changes. Right. In most cases, the pitch shapes get worse. Right. But there's also, at the same time, there's counteractive pitch design and play development that's going on. There's three reasons for that. Four, because one is that sometimes pitches do get worse. Yeah. Guys get hurt. Guys change their pitch shapes. That's one. One reason is badly calibrated tracking in units, or clock eye units in certain cases. Number three is that the balls are different, and different balls move differently. And number four is that each jump of those levels, enforcement, and sticky stuff gets structured. Right. Or more damaging if you got caught, or whatnot. Are you saying -- I was -- pitchers still load the ball, Jay? It is more -- at every jump there, at every jump there, the data collection gets better. Yeah. The balls change, and it gets harder to load the ball. Yeah. And those are all factors that are involvements there. And we're not saying Brandon Spro is loading the ball. No. And part of this, Brandon Spro's festival shape has not changed that much. They improved it slightly. Yes. They improved it slightly. It was really bad. It went backwards. Yeah. It went backwards slightly. And that might just be he's wearing gowns. He's had in-game stamina issues going back to college. Get your Brandon Spro. Get the Brandon Spro. Hi, Jeffrey and Jared. I've met you some of this in last week. I think we just missed it. I know it's only like 12 innings. It's more now. But have you seen/heard anything concerning -- concerning regarding Spro's AAA work? To be clear, I'm not panicking. I'm a tiny bit worried. I'm just curious. I don't expect there will be anything sticky this quickly. There might be things in the data that scouts have seen that can be informative regardless. So... Spro's festival shape sticks. Yeah. It's stoking entire time. Yeah. There's a dead zone 98 mile an hour of fastball in college. Which is why you're like a five and a half ERA for Florida. So two things have happened. One is that his velocity jumped for a lot of the season. It jumped and he held it better. If you have a stinky movement fastball, it is much better to throw it 99 than 96 or 97. Like much, much better. So that's what it is to you. A lot of guys with this fastball shape end up being primary sinker guys. Yes. Or primary non-fastball guys. Right. And he has, like, the change-up is very good. It's 26 pitches he throws. I don't know why he's throwing his fastballs. Because you have to establish the fastball, Jared. I know it's not actually something that Matt should do right now. Okay. So here's what I've actually got to say here. You might have him throw this fastball a lot because he needs fastball. Sure. Because he needs fastball commander apps because they're going to try various things with shapes and locations. And having made the decision that he's not going to be up this year, you might call it fastballs. So that's, this is stuff that we can't, I don't want to say can't. It's very difficult to find out in real time. This is a version of the, you catch a start where a guy is just throwing, like, 25 change-ups because he told them to work on his change-ups. Right. And also, sometimes you do this because not that you want the player to struggle, but you want the player to have to make the adjustment at the AAA level. I talked about this in Rich Staff's article in Vector about the minor league contraction. It's specific to the AAA level. So AAA level is for a lot of top prospects, the first level in which they have to make significant adjustments. And it's become less so, especially for hitters more so than pitchers. Right. But even like sprouts. Because all those guys are the Mexican ones. Sprouts not seeing the, you know, the 27-year-old with 500, not particularly good major league of bats, but it was hitting the upper minors for five years. Yeah, because Pablo Reyes was on the same team. Yeah, sure. You know, Michael Hermecio, obviously, who comes up, he's talked about this, some great length. It was a pretty good prospect for a number of years as well. Or, you know, Trace Thompson, who was also literally on his team. But like, there's this. I would strongly recommend people read Rich's article. I thought that was one of the best baseball articles that was put out this year, not because I was in it, but because I thought it was one of the best baseball articles in the year. But, you know, yeah, so that, you know, he started his fastball more than he should slash would be in the majors. It has stinky movement. And he's not throwing it hard because it's September. Yeah, and he's not throwing it as hard as he was previously. And again, these are all very lucky. 100 and something innings. And his last start was good. Right. This is not, you know, he's 110 and a third innings into the season. Look, you know, he is one of the better pitching prospects in the minors. I don't know that he's one of the best pitching prospects in the minors. It's also not a particularly good pitching class in the minors right now. So that's right as well. Like he's in with like Noah Schultz and when Matthews. Yeah. I had probably bad for Matthews, but yeah. Hagen Smith and Chase Burns and, you know, is he really with Jackson Job? Not really. Is he really with any pain or problem? Well, tough to tell, buddy. We're probably going to get some instructs reports there. Probably, yeah. Set back which set back is a little concerning at this point. Anyway, there's also some kid Texas has named the Grom. It's really good. It's just like not the upper minors. I thought you were going to say Kumar Racker. Honestly, he's probably, it was wrong too. Yeah. Conversation another day. It's fine. Another guy. Honestly, they're kind of the same prospect. They throw about the same speed. Racker's got a better breaking ball. Speron's got a better change up. Racker was a much worse injury history. Yeah. But it's both like upper minors with stinky movement. Yeah. Or upper 90s. Stinky movement. And, again, what puss games? That's puss games. Yeah. Just teach friends for sproden 80 grade sinkers. Splinker or whatever. And you're good to go. Yeah. He's got a heart six or seven change. Yeah. Not that far. Somebody. This might have also been Mikey. I'm about a hundred percent sure. But somebody the other day called Sprott dollar store Paul ski. It's basically true. Look. I guess he's not going to win the rookie of the year because we've done a Jackson Merrill narrative. Sure. That'll. Padres thing. He's going to come in second. He's going to probably come in second or third on the side on table. Right. Second third for you. He's quite to have a top two working in the year and top five. So young performance. He's a number one starter probably health permitting and he has to do it again. And by yes. I am unsure. If I had to win a game tomorrow and had a pick. I think I would pick him of all the pitchers. Which is definitely nice. It's definitely the best true talent level pitcher in baseball. Who else would it be? Yeah. I mean, it's not like I know they have used him too. But it's not like LSU did. So you know he can go long if he needs to. It's still true. Your sales are going to win the sigh on. It's been the best pitcher in national league this year. And in for it and schemes has been a little bit better. Yeah. And sale has still had a couple of the crystal blow up starts. Which he's prone to when he loses his earliest point. He always has been. Even when he is pitching like a number one ace which he has been again. He has from a lot of his career. He is prone to the ball. Sorry. You know, who else? To reach school ball? Has to reach school ball done this for longer than ball schemes? No. Is to reach school ball better perting than ball schemes? No. Is to reach school ball pitch quality better than ball schemes? Also no. Who else? Who is it? Wheeler. Yeah. Maybe. Or big game experience. Yeah. You know. It's not particularly good big game experience. Yeah. It's, you know, but the fact that we're having this conversation means these are all aces. These are all slam dunk no doubt. These are the, you're having this conversation between the slam dunk no doubt is. He's an ace. And if you are, if you are great to a great and a half worse than everything is an ace. You're buying number three. Yeah. You're probably number two or number three. Um, he's, and look, Paul, Paul schemes. Great pitcher. Brandon's for great pitching prospect. Yeah. Probably like the fifth or sixth best pitching prospect, not the first or second. Hmm. Here's a look. I mean, Jackson Jones had trouble. This isn't his. I lost his command at times. He's gotten hurt. But. Well, it was a hamstring. It was. It was. It's a pin. The hamstring. Whatever. Um. And number two. I can look at the track then read out. Yeah. Jackson Jones. Incredible fastball shape. Now, now he's still got two of those steps left. Right. The fastball goes backwards. But it's not going to go backwards to dead ball. It's going to go backwards to like 17, five IVB instead of 19. It's going to go, you know, the, and the pitches just work better together. You know. Jump has added a really nasty bridge cutter. Um. Some pitch sports playing around with. Uh, but it's not there for him in the same way. It's there for Joe. Uh. And so it's just a better overall arsenal. So yeah, Brandon's growth. Um, it's a really good example of how. The conditions of baseball get harder at each higher level. They, they, they just do. And that's also true for hitters. It's just harder to measure the propensity. Along those lines, you for the even Rob. Hi, Jeffrey. I think it's a podcast. When I think, whatever. I think it's fair to stay. I'm also a suspected baby to the physician player call up. On September 1st, mainly for the purpose of another lefty bat. It's just, yeah, I introduced the show in the normal way. I haven't done like the episode title or the housekeeping. That's fine. That's fine. With his diagnosis of a broken finger on Sunday. What is the likelihood the Mets call up DJ Stewart versus the field? Well, here's DJ Stewart. What kind of outside chance do a Kunya Gilbert Ritter or someone else have? Also, is there a chance we see Brandon's throat? The event McGill steps in for Blackburn and struggles. I mean, so first of all, he didn't. Um, second of all, I mean, obviously, when it's Pablo Reyes, but they called Stewart back up as the extra guys. Is it possible they send Reyes down when Martinez was back? Yeah. And they're literally starting to be Stewart in the outfield today for reasons I do not fully understand. I guess it's worked outside of that horrible defense. Yeah, I mean, one for three was kind of a little flair single, but yeah, it's, you know. Right. But they got something out of them. Sure. And Bader's already in for defense. Yeah. And, you know, it's the clubhouse. Yeah, it's lefty right, even though Bayo is primarily a change-up guy. Yeah. I mean, does any of this, actually, it's the 28th guy on a roster with a manager who, I mean, like he's going to give that guy a start a week because he likes getting everybody in, but like the marginal gain loss here is not, not significant. Do we think Brandon is taking his last, the bad as a member of the Mets organization? Interesting question. It is. I mean, it's going to depend a lot on what they're doing for the off season and. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of like, you know, how active they are in the trade market. Right. I think I don't know if they'll necessarily, you know, target a specific Brett Beatty challenge trade, but if they are active, other teams are going to, yeah, I think that's the way it's going to play. But again, they've kind of like new to his valley. I think he's got more value than like a Dylan Carlson. Yeah. I mean, he's really trained, but it's not a lot. He's like, he's hit in AAA enough. He's still young enough. I'm trying to think of a play, of a player like this that has been traded recently. You know, Carlson, and it was for. Carlson, I mean, Carlson had a way more major league experience and had a couple of good seasons in the majors before it kind of went pear-shaped for him. So this is a guy that really hasn't established himself as a, as a major league regular. And like, those guys just don't get traded usually because teams want to hold on to the, you know, the possibility of. And then that's why I do that. And they might shock me. Look, I think some of this is going to depend on where the major league coaching staff is. I have no sense of who the major league kidding coaches are going to be next year. I don't think it's easier. You know, if you're aggressively filling those corner spots, then you're going to look like, I don't know if it's going to be Vientos at third or Vientos at first. And you find like, I don't know, Matt Chapman. I don't think they're going to do that. Yeah, it sounds like there's a lot of you don't have to stay in San Francisco. Right. But if they do. There's been more, there's been more heat recently on Alonzo staying with Matt. Yeah, I don't know. And the heat, the heat is basically that Cohen's just going to give him a lot of money. Which, I mean, it's not my money, but there's some, there's some red flags here. I mean, there's an actual like opportunity cost here in a way that isn't with, I don't know. Nobody ever, we're not allowed to talk about the opportunity cost because it's not labor friendly to talk about the opportunity cost of signing people on. No, I mean, I understand that part of it, but it's like you've also got to, you know, put a team on the field. Of course, of fucking matters, we're just not supposed to talk about it. Right. And there's only a certain number of years like teams will eat on these teams. Well, some meme, utter woke garbage or whatever. But, yeah, so I don't, I really don't know. What are you, maybe you can do Beatty for the Zardo again. Give him the Zardo's entry and struggles this year. Just run it back for another all season. Do you want to, does anyone want to do that? I don't know. Um, yeah. Obviously a lot of the specific questions within their kind of got looted. They've been pretty clear. They're not calling spread up. And I think him being it, him being bad at triple like. Yeah, he looks tired. Yeah. You might have considered him for like a short relief role they've mostly gotten healthy there, although not entirely healthy because we have an email from Jason. So Mendoza over uses Reid Garrett. He goes to the IL. Mendoza over uses Nunez. He goes to the IL. Nunez comes back and the second out and he throws 30 pitches, goes back to the IL and headed for more MRI. It seems like malpractice by the manager. Is there ever a report on the results of those? I haven't seen it. I mean like this fried to me at the time when they were doing it. Like they brought him back in a fairly low leverage situation. Fine. They had him get two outs. Fine. Why are you wheeling him back? Like there's just no reason to do it. I know you want him to be able to do an up-down, but that's not an actual spot where you need an up-down. You're up four or five runs or whatever it was. The last update was on August 30th and it was waiting to see if her a couple of days. Yeah. Good. But using Dias for a third consecutive day with a foreign lead against the White Sox. What the fuck was he doing? So I will say on that, once they had him hot, you probably just have to use him. Why was he hot? Well, that's a separate question. But I'm saying once you got him hot, he's going to be down for a day anyway. What the fuck? It's the fucking White Sox. I know. I'm aware. It's just way more of that series than I should have. I thought there's just the best position player pitching prospect and the Mets team like to get, like, actual outs. They've got to have somebody pitching college, right? Is it literally DJ Stewart? I mean, it wasn't DJ Stewart. Yeah, fair enough. I don't think anybody would pitch that college. They not have, like, a position player or pitcher. They got a lot of friends on it. I feel like Terrens. Well, yeah, I'm sure he's fine. He's got a good arm. No, so it's the best arm on the T-shirt. The best arm strength on the team. I just feel like it's Terrens. But yeah, it was just very, and, like, Nunez is a guy that's had a lot of arm woes over the years, too. And he's coming back from forearm tightness and one rehab star. It, like, just let him throw his 14 pitches. Luis Terrens has pitched in three games in the majors. And you know what? Including this year, which is what I remembered it. He has a 3.6 ARA. That's why I got enough against the White Sox. Give them a ball, Mark. He said, "The main reason the Mets will miss the playoffs just, like, 2019. Not quite enough, but he has six, seven balls." So the funny thing is, we haven't really talked about the week of Mets baseball. They went five and one. They probably should have gone six and out. I think that's a tough one, too, because they didn't tack on any runs. They're trying to get 12 outs with that bullpen. And they did actually, like, get it to Diaz, I guess. Like, I'm very confused. Diaz has nothing very good this is. No, he is. They're just going to die. This is the same thing as Pete Alonzo. I know everybody. What the fuck is his mustache Alonzo? Yeah. He grows this from time to time. Anyway, he does not have the facial hair thickness to curl his neck. Yeah. I also do not. This is not me. I don't really either. I have a beard for most of the last 15 years, but... I would go very similar mustache to what Pete Alonzo had. Right. I would never get super thick around the mustache. I mean, I can get a little bit of a push broom. I guess long, but not thick. Yeah. Somebody's going to fucking clip that, aren't they? Anyway, there's no super nice way to put this. It's been very inconsistent. Talking about this April, this velocity is down a little bit, and the slider consistency is not there. It's offered a very traumatic knee injury, and this happens to pictures when they suffer very traumatic knee injury. Right. I would also say that you can probably find a closer on a not particularly great team that's on the fringes of playoff race. It's probably blown six of seven games. The thing about this is that every game you lose when you're in this kind of... I mean, you're chasing, right? Every game you lose feels worse than every game you win feels good. Yeah. And also, it's just like... And then once you're up, it's the other way around. But... Do you think there is much of a chance that Diaz opts out after 25 at this point? I don't think so. I mean, I don't think. You would have to put up like a 2022 quality season. Yeah. And look, I don't know what... Is that even the relievers or relievers, right? I don't know what next year is going to be. If you... If you... I think out of 238... Oh, yeah. It's really going to attend. The Mets would also pick up a 2020 call of option for a marginal 16 to 5. Yeah. I mean, it's really going to come down to what he looks like next year, but I would say probably not. Yeah. I feel... I feel like probably... Probably not. Somebody talked about trading him recently. He has full low trade calls. He obviously doesn't want to leave. Yeah. But also... And look, I don't really think we can do that. I don't think anyone can move that deal. Contract, right. Yeah. Like, who is taking that contract? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Who's better analytically? Mahomes are Brady. Typical debates go with narrative-based arguments. But what does that really mean? No substance. Data suggests in this debate, since data isn't biased, we'll just give the cold, hard facts. Right. But you have to... What's your assumption? Look, if you're not going on career value, it's obviously Brady. Sure. Yeah. It's played for way longer. So you have to... Somebody who is going to have bias has to decide... Right. Okay. What is the... Are we using error adjustments? Right. Error adjustments? Are we using peak? Are we using...? Seasons, yeah. Right. If Patrick Mahomes plays for a long period of time and does not suffer a traumatic injury or some weird... I mean, even Brady missed a year, right? Right. He's going to go down as one of the five greatest players in NFL history. But Brady's already the best player in NFL history. Right. So the thing with Com Brady, it makes it very tough to answer this question in a meaningful way because there's... There's just... Like, there's... It's got played until it was 42 and it was only quarter back until it was 41. Like, the last... You know, we make fun of the Jeff Fisher year after you retire. Yeah. Came back. But, you know, how is this? This is a... It's a three-time NFL MVP. It's a five-time Super Bowl MVP. It's a seven-time Super Bowl champion. He's a 15-time pro baller. He made two all-decade teams. I mean, I guess part of the whole... Essentially, every career passing record that exists, he holds a bunch of seasonal passing records too. He holds every playoff record that exists. Mahomes is going to break a lot of that. Right. I think the argument... It's also much more passing-friendly error. Right. I think specifically the argument for Mahomes, and again, he's also doing it for one period of time, is that Mahomes basically came into the NFL as mostly fully-formed Pat Mahomes. Well, like, Tom Brady had, like, the game manager seasons at the beginning of his career, right? Mmm. I know it was a few years, but... Not as much as you'd think. Yeah, not really as much as you'd think. He was... He let the league in touchdown passes in his second season. He's in, like, the second season as a starter. Like, so he got that reputation in 2001, where he managed them to the Super Bowl. Right. In 2002, they missed the playoffs, obviously. Right. But he let the season in passing touchdowns in that season. Like, he wasn't... Look, he wasn't Tom, you know... 2007, he had the greatest passing season ever, right? But he was still, like, a top five quarterback in the whole... It was six stretch. It's tough specifically with Brady, too, right? 'Cause his career bridges a lot of the role changes that helped the passing game. Right. That's what I'm saying. You've got to talk about error adjustments here, even though they overlapped for three, four seasons. You know, you've got to talk about error adjustments. Right. You've got to talk about teammate quality. You've got to talk about coach quality. And it's not clear to me... Right. That's how it's tough to... What direction those go? Right. And it's tough for him football to isolate. I guess somewhat easier with quarterback. But it's... Bill Belichick is a greater coach than Andy Reid. Yes. Andy Reid's a good coach. I don't know that he's a greater offensive coach than Andy Reid. Sure. And that's the context in which we live in and when we're having this discussion. Brady, on total balance, is a better playoff player. But that's because mostly of opportunity, my homes has probably been better per step in the playoffs. But Brady just did it a lot more times. You're also... You know, they... You're talking about the quarterbacks who engineered the two greatest comebacks and... Sure. That's narrative stuff, though. Right. Yeah, but that... If you're looking at like a WPA type... Sure. Like a football CWPA, right? Yeah. That's gonna matter all. It is, Jim. So the answer to this is there's no answer. The answer to... You know... I mean, if you adjusted net yard per attempt, my home's is a fairly strong advantage. But like his best seasons have been basically as good as Brady's best season. Right, but he's mid career. Right. Right. He's mid career against the guy who played, who was a starting quarterback for 23 seasons. I mean, like, so like 40... Like his age 43 and age 44 seasons, the first two at Tampa, he was around 7.5 net yards per attempt, which is almost as good as Mahomes career number right now. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. Like, yes, this guy's one of the best players in the league. Like counting... Counting stats do matter, right? Like the fact that he's able to be that. And the fact that, again, that he was that good a quarterback in his 40s is... You know, it's like normal, like, elite... The elite of the elite in any athletic endeavor do not have normal aging curves. Yeah, but Brady has like the most abnormal aging curve in like a history of like high level teams for athletics. Here's the point I want to make here. Brady and Peyton Manning are direct and temporary. It's like straight direct contemporaries. Manning is a year and a half older than Brady. In... In the... Wait, 2000s. Football outside. Football outside. Yeah. Back before it turned into whatever it is. Whatever it is now, yeah. Football outside is on their message board in their comments section. Yeah. Cool. You could not talk about Brady and Manning yet. You could not talk about Brady versus Manning because it was so obvious that Manning was a better player and Brady could never make up the gap. Also, I think they were just tired of the derail and comment sections, but yes. By the time Tom Brady retired, the idea that Peyton Manning was a better player than him was laughable. Laughable. Mm-hmm. Peyton Manning had half of Tom Brady's career, basically. Which still makes him one of the five best quarterbacks in NFL history. He was really old. Dell James. If you split Ricky Henderson into two players, you'd have two Hall of Famers too. Yeah, more than half. But he had like two thirds of Tom Brady's career. Yeah, yeah. And not like the best two thirds either. He had two thirds. He had worse years at the end than Brady did. Right. Consider it. Yeah. Including one of the Super Bowl members. Yeah. He got carried to a Super Bowl at the end, basically. So. Yeah. You can't. To answer this question, you have to tell me what Patrick Mahomes looks like at age 38. And I don't know there is that there's any one alone 43. And I just, I don't know that there's any way to answer that. To that. The answer is to the point, to the same point in their career as Mahomes. How many batters is Danny Young going to face in the setting to study? He's going to leave him in for two hours. Yeah. I'm sure that won't go badly at all. Yeah. They basically left him. They basically left him and get hit around. Yeah. So he could face devours as the tying rod. Yeah. Yeah. Them about that. There we go. Yeah. Right. They didn't even let him get hit around. He walked and hit a guy. Yeah. Yeah. He's doing a living around. They kept him into face devours in a situation where he was only going to face devours. Two guys on him. He walked Romy Gonzales of all people. I ain't even fine this year, I guess. Yeah. There's nobody up in the bullpen. Oh, no. We've got Tristan Casas too. You've got Tristan Casas in Yoshida. So, you know, Adam Adavino's getting up. There's one pitch. I guess they're not going to pinch it for devours or Casas. I guess there's that. Oh. You're also star. How many windows are you? I've got a question about that too. Yeah. Somewhere in here. So I got through. All right. She needs actually. All right. It was a question from Steve. Nick Cassiano said in a recent interview, when he's up at the plate, he tries to follow/see the ball to make contact. He doesn't dive into numbers or data or really much in a scouting report. So, he claims that when you do that, you are thinking. And what's your thinking? Instead of reacting in a sport, you aren't your best self. How's Castellanos hit the last three years? This was surprising to hear. Like, some hitters just like this. This was surprising to hear to me because I would have thought all players by now know all the numbers/information against certain pitchers and have to improve their launch, etc., into the weeds type of hitting, not just sea ball hit ball. What percentage players would you say have Castellanos' approach? Do you think having this approach hurts or helps a player? It's 30 to 35, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be way more common amongst hitters than pitchers. Yeah. It is also surprisingly common. That group is going to be way more heavily weighted to guys who are or were stars. Because when you're Nick Castellanos or Mike Trout, you can do that. When you are Pablo Reyes, you can't. Not to continue beating up on Pablo Reyes, they're like Pablo Reyes. Yeah. When you are, you know, Jeff McNeil has done that for a lot of his career and recently stopped doing it. The first person I really heard talk about this was Brian Vanister. He did not have elite stuff. He couldn't just blow guys away. He had to do, he mucked around with a cutter, pitch location, different sequencing things. I don't know what else he was doing. You didn't really have pitch level data or high speed cameras as much back then. He didn't have the granular stuff, but it was the same idea. I remember Toby. Toby a number of years ago that he also, he always flagged that when guys couldn't really talk. In depth about their swing and their approach is like a negative marker for further development. I guess that's probably more true in the minors than it is when you're already Nick Castellanos. Because you've gotten over those. It's also probably more true with the types of guys that Toby was seeing come through. Yeah, sure. In 2012 or whatever. The Mets did not have that too. Future superstars in that time period of that level. They had Jeff McNeil's. Right. It doesn't specifically hurt or help a player. This is going to be very individualized. Right. It probably makes it harder for a hitter to adjust. Maybe you see that and how Nick Castellanos is. The climb phase is going. Yeah. Look. Sean Hill-Tani is a super analytical pitcher who's also a football hitter. He's obviously in every conceivable way completely unique, but that can even vary from a hitter or hitter or hitter perspective. Plus games is a throw ball pitcher. You know, we did the. There was a. Me and several other people. Matt Snyder, Jeff Fonz, or two I know about. I think there were others as well. It's been like a lot of like March April May trying to figure out how this dude started by throwing bunker. Accident. Yeah, it was not. Anybody was able to repeat it afterwards, right? Like it's not just. But this was not. It was not on like high speed camera. It's not looking at deep pitch design. Running back to the laptop after every pitch. Right. He did not attempt to duplicate Johan Duran's bunker. He just. This is also like Dan worth it and stuff right? Yeah. Which that happens. Yeah. And I was making that point to say it's not all. Hitter pitcher here. Right. There are some super duper analytical hitter. Shady Martinez is one of them. Something that he learned with the Astros organization way back in the day. He was carried with him for the rest of his career. He has notebooks on every single pitch he's seen in the Major League. Delgado used to do that too. Well, it's back. For yeah Carlos Delgado's guy like that. And then there's you know. And there's pitchers who don't maintain that level of preparation. Just want to go on the mound and throw the ball. Throw their best two pitches or best three pitches. Or whatever the tetra puts down, right? And the best coaches in player development guys. Know how to work with all of them. Know how to leverage that those abilities. If you've got a guy like say a Nick Castellanos. And what Kevin Wong might be the best coach in the Major's for this one versus. You've got to be able to get through to a player who does not want to hear. You've got to be able to make this instruction on how you get him to do the things that are going to make him better. That's that's that's the essence of baseball coaching. That's that's the essence of being because not the. JD Martinez is low hanging through because he spent a lot of work himself. Yes, your best coaches. We're going to get those guys in the right direction. This is why they are Chavez comments about Francisco Alvarez was so concerned. He is not, you know, I don't know where Francisco Alvarez falls on that. Francisco Alvarez is still a very young player. Why mean Alvarez was talking about Alvarez talks like a guy who was very analytical. He was breaking down video like while he was out. Like that's more than a lot of these guys do. But Alvarez talks like a guy who's very analytical and inclined. And in fact, some of those traumas complaints about Alvarez were that he was too. I don't know if you read slightly between lines there. One of the things that was so concerning was that the outcome he was trying to get to. Right. Wrong outcome. Yes. Like Nick Castellanos is basically working to the right outcomes. You want to get if you are concerned that Francisco Alvarez is screwing up in the approach. They're really going to use Maiton instead of Diaz in the save up here. Three game. Maiton's been worked harder than Diaz. Yes. Well, you say that. Like Diaz might not pitch in this game still, Jared. Yeah. You're just, yeah. I'm just, I'm making, we're discussing. Yeah, the Mets. We're discussing this. Anyway, you're, if you've got a player who was analytically inclined in thinking, pull the ball in the air more based on his analytic breakdowns of his own swing, you don't want to say, hey, stop doing this. You want to back off at that. Yeah. You want to go, okay, this guy already gets it. Maybe I need to go talk to so and so, but. And also like you got a, you know, you got to keep an eye on him, right? If he's getting a little too pull happy or expanding, like, you know, work on approach stuff. Yeah. Because the time is to make them less pull happy. I've done wonders for his ability to hit sliders. I mean, like there's stuff, I mean, he's also like stepping into the bucket. Maybe you want to move him closer to the plate. Like there's stuff you can do to get him. He's stepping into the bucket because they fucking told him to stop pulling the ball in the air. Yes. I know. But I'm just saying there's other things you may need to keep it high on. I'm not saying the Mets current hitting effort. Yes. You're doing that. Yeah. Well, the rest of Steve's email. Jeffrey, you said you don't think Stern's watch is all or even half of my games. I don't know. I have no idea. I know that a lot of GM's don't necessarily do that or heads of baseball ups. This is the case. I'm disappointed as a fan. I'd rather have a president who's locked and loaded and is following each move in each game to have the best possible knowledge on everything regarding the team. Well, if you've listened to this show so far, you see how normal and even keeled that keeps us. Missing and inning is as simple as that. You miss out on a lot. Every pitch, foul ball, fly ball, ground ball. What is thrown in what count? How many RPMs on this pitch? Your president of baseball ops does not need to know this. This is stuff like the manager needs to be paying attention to and does not necessarily either. But are you giving up soft or hard contact? Why is it hit or swing you at this pitch? Again, coaching staff. Because the Mets are so behind, certain should follow everything to catch up on the Dodgers, Yankees, Phillies and Guardians. David Cernes needs to hire the right people to do that. Yeah. And that's not just coaching staff, too. It's ops. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying he shouldn't watch the games. I think it's going to be personal preference to an extent. It's not his primary job, right? Yes. This is the... It's got some to people who don't know what a president of baseball operations actually goes. Yeah. I'm sure he's in his suite, the GM suite. I mean, he's probably still in his office working right now, actually. Like, he doesn't travel with him on the road too much. He does at times, I think, but I don't think he travels a ton. Most don't nowadays, honestly. He is a work-guys to the death. Everybody in baseball ops is in the office 24/7 organization. They had decent work-life balance. They had a ton. It's a huge ops apparatus, too, which is part of the reason you can do that. And they do not have... There are organizations that have the entire front office and one of the two home offices all the time. They're not one of them. Yeah. We're not one of them. So, yeah, I think that was a fair ball. Yeah, it was. Did he even get by the bag? Oh, yeah. That's a fair ball. Yeah, it's got a little sidespin on it. Yeah. That's a good ball, but Pete. He charged that to make sure it got called fair. It was a good defensive play. It's always been better if the ball was coming in than it would have allowed early. Yeah. Even back to when it was prospecced. Yeah, they were not known as an organization. Look, our organizations were the general manager. Yeah. They're 24/7 does absolutely, or the president of baseball offices. They're 24/7. Once everybody in the office at all times when they are there. There are no responses at 11 p.m. Right. Like the people who worked off. The first turns were not known for that. Right. Doesn't mean they weren't. But... And also, like, you... I've watched basically every pitch of this game outside of when I was refilling my beer. Like, I don't know what... If I put myself in David's turn shoes, what this game is going to do for actionable information for me for the things I am primarily concerned with. Right. Which, again, at this point... It's so granular. Yeah. 20/25 off-season. Yeah. There's almost nothing David's turn can do to improve his roster for the rest of his season. No. Yeah. Yeah. Like, there isn't a lot. I mean, they're past the deadline to claim guys. They didn't claim anybody at the waiver claim deadline. They can call guys up, but they don't have particularly important call-up candidates. He can tell the manager to use guys differently. It probably is, to an extent. Right. But, again, these are relative... Yeah. Look, Edwin Diaz is probably down because... Yeah. They said, like, we're in cycles. And that may be something that the front office went, "Hey, stay away from Edwin today." Yeah. That is the... Mickey Gasper is on the Red Sox. Fairly. He's really hostile. He's the guy that's seen in a decent amount. Well, that's a mustache. Yeah. That guy can throw a thick mustache. What is he doing? He's a lefty. He's a lefty. Whatever. I guess he needs someone to hurt him. Hey, Todd! Does not have... He's a cutter. This was the issue. We'll go back to the Arizona game, because why not? Yeah. I was thinking about my mother-in-law at the airport, so I was just following it on a bat at that point. But... I just... When they brought in Diaz with two outs and a guy on where they think it was. So they brought in Paven Smith, the pension. And that it was. Yeah. Hey, Todd. May Todd, in fact, made Mickey Gasper look really bad. Yeah, and, like, I know May Todd had given up some hard... He, like, walked a guy and given up some hard contact. I mean, that's our half game out of the wild card. Not Jared. Just keep everybody informed. May Todd, that was a great pickup for them. It was a good pickup for them. Yeah. He hasn't been amazing, but they needed a guy exactly like this. They got him for nothing. Literally, not for money. Yeah. Uh... Are leverage usable leverage reliever? Yeah. He displays that amount of, you know, out of the usable leverage reliever spot. Because he's been around a lot of years and he's had shiny arrays. He's been an eighth inning guy for, like, seventh inning guy for... Playing half. And he'll play off team in Houston. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And he's always gonna be... He's always gonna be cheap to acquire because he's... He doesn't throw hard yet. Yeah, because he's a solid, he's a junk baller. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's a junk baller. Yeah. I mean, his fastball will get overnight. He just doesn't throw his fastball much because he shouldn't. Yeah. He does. He has... What was the last time Phil Mayton started forcing fastball? I think when I looked at it, he had thrown a few this year. I can actually look at how many used to him or something like that. So... But yeah, it's not... It's not... It's not gonna be a lot. He gets to, like, 90 more than what he does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not, like, a super. Like, it's below average for a right-handed reliever by a fair bit, but it's not. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Kyle Hendricks. Look! If I had his curve ball... Yeah, he wouldn't throw it. And Cutter, I would also not throw my forcing fastball. That is not the thing I would do. Well, he has thrown 38 sinkers as I'm at this year. Oh, his fourth. But he's almost entirely cutter... Yeah, but he has to hit 90 with this. He hasn't hit 90 with the sinker this year. I mean, his cutter goes to the 92. He left through a forcing fastball in 2020, and he was 90 to 92, and... Yeah, it's fine. He can throw it then, right? Yeah. But he stopped throwing. He swapped it out for a hard cutter, which, you know... Yeah. Was almost as firm as his fastball and had a better whiff rate, frankly, especially... I would not be throwing a forcing fastball ever if I was him either. Yeah. Yeah. He used to make that change and, you know... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's correct. All right. I think we can go to the Facebook group now. We've got a few questions here. We actually have some Discord questions, too, that I wrote down. But we'll start at the Facebook group. Q for the P from Tom. David Peterson's top line numbers have been good, but his peripherals aren't. Have you seen anything that makes you think Peterson has taken a step forward this year? Nope. And would you be satisfied if he's in the rotation next year? He's got to be. Yeah. Again, we're going to save this for the sixth second of off-season. Is it like...? Peterson is a fourth-fifth starter. Should not be guaranteed a job. They're going to because of the top line and he's a veteran and he's... You can't take a guy who's been in your organization for seven years and through... Right now, he has 92 innings at a 2.8 ERA. You can't put him out of the rotation if he's on the roster. No, you could do like a sneaky trade, right, if you find the right. You could. Deal. That's not what you could do. There's two. Yes. I mean, like he has a 6.8... I mean, his figure rate has gone way down. He's... And I don't honestly... Like he's getting better contact suppression results, but I don't know they've actually done anything. Like a true town low for the ERA guy. That was fucking true last year at all. In fact, I'll do a Jared here. In fact, his career ERA is 4.15. Alright. He's... He's... No, there is absolutely not... Like there's no... I can... I can... Like, hold on. Give me a second. Let's follow it. We looked at this. There wasn't really anything immediately identifiable in the pitch mix or... I will move this individual pitch metrics from Rob's app, which goes back to 2021. So it's going to cover his entire career. I can even add AAA here. David Peterson. Seasoned. Well, 2022, which is his good year in 2023/2024 should be enough, probably. Yeah, it's fine. I pulled up all the... Yeah, I mean his... I want to sort by pitch types here. Has he changed shapes of anything? I mean, his change-up shape has changed a little bit. It's still not particularly interesting. So I will... This is not the best way to do this, but for our purposes, it was... Forcing fastball has had the... I mean, he changed his fastball shape, but it was years ago. Right. His... He changed his slider shape, but it was years ago. And then he changed it to something worse. Right. So 2023, his sinker, had a 486 slugging against and an X slug of 449. This year, his sinker has a 376 slugging against and an X slug of 442. Not the greatest. It's a very crude tool, but I don't think there's actually, like, anything in here suggesting contact suppression. He's getting less swing and misses, swings and misses on both as fast. Well, he's gotten less swings and misses on his slider last year, which is... This year versus last year, when the 2023 slider swing and misses down from the... I think I know. Sister Talon's like a 4.2-year-old guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's fine. Fine. They've collected a fair amount of those guys at this point. Yeah. And they're going to probably start at least two to three of them next year as well. Yeah. I mean, it says... You know, his slugging percentages are better on the sinker and the slider. But is there really any reason to believe that those are sticky changes? No. Not really. And there's nothing you can pass through that's like... Sometimes you just have good contact luck for a season, right? Some of the sinker a little more this season, especially the same side. Guys, is that really... I'm going to guess, like, almost all of this. We're going to use an even cruder tool. I'm going to guess almost all of this is hard run for fly ball rate. Babbop, yeah. So, his Babbop the last three years, 313, 370, 281 this year. His hard run for fly ball rate, 15%, 21%, 10%. Yeah. And are those real changes to Talon? Yeah. It says sex well for the last two years. It's 3.40 guys and 3.40. Yeah. It was better in 2023. Xwoba has major problems. Yes. But again, we're just trying to like, there's nothing here for slagging. It's velocity is not up. Like, there's nothing. There's nothing. There's nothing. He's David Peterson. Right. His velocity is up 4/10 on his foreseem and he's up ahead. That's within like... He's not going to measure on error too. Right. Like, he's up. His velocity is not up and out for us. The market is much of anything. His pitch shapes are basically the same. It's... Yeah. Which... Yeah. This is kind of what it is. Yeah. You know, he did... I can't see. Change his curve ball shape a little bit. So it's curve ball like 8% of the time. Right. Yeah. It's still a... It changed from a loopy curve ball to a loopy curve ball. Like, we're in like the margin of error type stuff. Yeah. His sinker has been better at bad ball suppression this year. Yeah. Is it a real change? I don't think so. That doesn't mean he's going to go back to having a 6E. All right. Because he was a better pitch, we're going to last. It probably means it'll go back to having a low 4E. Yeah. This is the same discussion about Maiton. Yeah. About brass band. Yeah. About Jesse Winker. They're about like a 96 inning sample. Right. We're talking about... Right. Like, if there was a change, we would probably see it in this sample. But as far as like, results in this sample are not necessarily meaningful. Anybody can do anything. Yeah. I don't want the sample within certain levels. Yeah. Yeah. When it comes to hitting and pitching instructions/philosophy, what role do agents play? It's kind of surprising to me that for a guy like Abrams, for example, his agent isn't in his ear saying the gnats can like slap hitting all they want. The market isn't going to pay for that and getting any person or hitting coach on the side. That's going to vary based on the agent's relationship with the player. Yeah. And the team. I have heard more of this in the last year or two that I have. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. You have to be more confident. You need a big enough agency, right, to have those connections too. Not necessarily. You need to apply an agent or somebody in the agent's office. Sure. Which a lot of agencies don't have that. Right. You need a player that's willing to participate in this type of stuff. Yeah. I have heard more of that. Yeah. I mean, you would think, yeah, and it's going to depend on the individual. It's still about a lot. Yeah. It's like the agent. The agent has like a lot of other literally administrative stuff to do. I don't know if they're necessarily wanting to step on toes either with an organization they may have other clients they want to negotiate with, right? The gnats do spend some money. Uh, and if they feel like, uh, they might be less than trying to take one of your clients, if you think they're, that player specifically might listen to you rather than them. And it's going to depend on the organization too, right? How much they care about that stuff. The gnats seem to a lot. Sure. Do you hear the even Kyle? Did watching Chris Dale improve Minaia or is the Mets pitching dev at the major league level just good now? If the former is true, any chance they move on from heffner this winter, uh, Minaia is a driveline guy more than, uh, more than anything, I think. Yeah, but also the, the child Minaia. Yeah, he doesn't change stories. Wow. That looks cool. And then trying to emulate Chris. Yeah. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. These were intentional changes he made basically on his own to attempt to emulate a guy. Yeah. It's going to win the analysis. Right. Which, you know, he's been, I think he's had a high degree of involvement. You know, we go back to that conversation earlier about guys that are very inclined on this stuff versus less inclined. He's been a very inclined guy the entire time. Yes. And like he's having, you know, frankly, probably the best season of his career. I don't know, there's been, I don't know exactly when he started doing the Chris sales stuff, but he doesn't have a huge split. First half to second. Yeah. Yeah. So he doesn't have a huge, he's even better in the second half. Um, but again, it's not a. Yeah. Like a massive, like with, it's not outside of the norm of just like randomly having a couple better months than average. Um, yeah, um, this has come up a lot recently. Would, I mean, they're also going to give them an eye on the qualifying offer. Would he be of like a meaningful off season target for you? Yeah. It's like it's, I don't think it's as cut and dry as you don't want to give Taiwan Walker the $60 million deal. Yeah. That's what I feel about that right now. Right. But he's also not going to probably just get 60 million either. Yeah. Uh. And he's older. He's going to be 33 next year. So I think there's enough higher upside here that I'm going to entertain. But my actual goal here would be to find the next one of these guys that were assigned the last. Which is the same conversation we have every time. Yes. And like this might be one where it's like, it's good. Yeah. It's, it's tricky. It's trickier than I thought. Because my initial reaction is the same as yours, right? You don't. You probably just got the best season of his career. Yes. At 32. And look, there's probably some real changes here. Whether it's the Chris fail stuff or the dropout stuff. Yeah. But it's weather. Right. It's weather you can count on him for, let's say, a four year contract. Right. That's going to be able to stay healthy and continue to do this with that. Like any guys, he's at start. Right. This is the guy I spent most of his age 31 season pitching out the bullpen because he couldn't make the team's rotation was not a playoff team that he could not make the rotation of. And has done a major mid season reworking for like the fourth of five years running. So the, and it's had a lot of injury problems in the past as well. A lot of hit problems specifically. So yeah, that's, it's not a hard no, but also like it. If somebody's going to give him feels like somebody's giving this guy $100 million. You probably don't want to leave that team. Yeah. Like at that point, go spend 160 on free eat or 190 on burns. Right. Yeah. Not that those guys might up your land. Sure. But yeah, I mean, the actual answer is just like, go sign and say Bieber for like two and 40 or whatever. Right. Like, yeah, like there's, you know, I think there's a very high chance he's going to pay short thing money and perhaps not a very high chance he's actually a short thing. He's going to get paid for multiple seasons. Like he's a number point three. Yeah, like a 20% better than only a average picture. Yes. And that can work out. It can. Yeah. It's not half the history of mechanical or performance and systems yet. One when paying a guy that much one. You for the back. The math's are in a better position to evaluate. Yes, they are. The thickness of these changes that we are. I will say that. Give me the pay from Charles. I feel like many listeners are Gen X and older millennials probably a safe bet. So I will ask, what is the baseball or other sports equivalent of Oasis getting back together? I think I'm not a. I'm pretty sure I own what's the story of Morning Glory on CD. But it's not a little too. Again, I listened to Wonderwall on the radio constantly when I was in junior high. And I have a lot of friends in the shape of Wednesday community that have gotten tickets. Somehow Brave Ticketmaster got their tickets. I mean, it's like baseball. So Oasis is like exactly like my 15th favorite. Okay. I'm trying to act. It might be capable of performing, which means I might try to get tickets if they do a New York date. But I assume they're going to probably. Yeah. But also if the tickets are. My wife actually saw them. I think in college, so like early 2000s, a little post peak. I forgot who she said they were opening for. But it's at some place in Worcester. I forgot it was really funny who they were opening for. Am I in the Goo Goo Dolls? That's yeah. It's all the Goo Goo Dolls. Yeah. Last year. Yeah. It's like, it feels like Jim Blossoms are Goo Goo Dolls, which are two bands I constantly get. Saw the Jim Blossoms a number of years ago. And Casino. Yeah. It sounds like a casino. Uh, so I like, I'm like not. I understand that they have been away for so long that people got nostalgic for them. But I am surprised that there's like a. It's not. I think this is. Yeah. I think this is a generational thing specifically. Like, people trying to get tickets to this, like it's Olivia Rodrigo. Olivia Rodrigo is probably the actual one. But it's, I think it's a lot of late thirties, early 40s, specific nostalgia for. But they were not again, if the time that they exist. It was a big album. I know. They were. But they were considered a similar level to the Goo Goo Dolls. I would say they were like bigger than that. But like, not a green day. Green days. Pearl Jam. Yeah. Obviously it's a bigger deal in England, I think, too, specifically. Yeah. I am surprised at the lot, because green days, full towards a green day. Yeah. They still, yeah. Pearl Jam a little less. No. Pearl Jam is still very successful. But it's the lack of them being around for the last 15 years. I think is. It's driving a lot of this. I will say relative to this that. And either people, I think, have forgotten this, or maybe didn't know it. Oasis had a reputation as a terrible life there. Yes. I mean, because they were often yelling at each other. I mean, even back then. And also canceled a million. Yeah. I would not feel super comfortable traveling a long distance for, in a ways, look. If I am going to Liverpool, England, to see Taylor Swift, I know what I'm getting. Yeah. She is an extremely good, extremely consistent live performer, unless the show gets canceled because of the potential terrorist attack. Right. You are going to get, and she will do different stuff at certain points. But there's a very high floor, right? She's had days when her vocals weren't as good. Sure. And days when, yeah. This isn't like Guns N' Roses. Right. You are going to get a great three hour and 15 minute concert. Yeah. Springsteen 2, still. A little less. I mean, look. Nowadays, yeah. I'm going to Springsteen in a couple of weeks. Yeah. Of course you are. You're here now. Yeah. But for like, you know, 1978 through 2015 or so. You knew what you were getting, right? 17. 17. Oh. Again, the same point. He's still good. You're still going to get. And he was living when he wasn't touring regularly. He was still touring more than Oasis, right? Right. But these are bad. These are acts that are considered, you know, if you asked who are the top two touring acts of the last 30 years, it's literally Taylor Swift and Bruce Springsteen. Yeah. Elton John. Elton John. Yeah. Yeah. The really tall. He just plays one building. But yes. He did. He's toward. Yeah. He's toward. Yes. He said. These are when you see that Kyle of your Rodrigo is around this. When you get tickets to those artists, you know, you're going to get a pretty good comment. She's playing the Delta Center. So she's playing the NBA arena. Right. So you did Massens were a guard here and those tickets. Those tickets were extraordinarily hard to get. Because that should have been a stadium for wasn't. Because she picked up a lot of popularity in the meantime. Um, because this stuff all has like 12 to 18. Yeah. What. That is and. For a tour of that level. Yeah. 12 to 18 months ago, let me read. We're going to look like one of the top up and coming stars. And now she's just one of the top stars. I assume your daughter is too young to be into that. Yeah. I mean, it's still at the. What was she? But she was. We played like let it go three times in the car when we were driving. So, yeah. But if your daughter was six years older, you would be fighting tooth and nail for Delta Center. All of your Rodrigo tickets are probably not tremendously easy to get. This is something you could like, I went to the concert in one of New York. I was the really good concert. I was the only person of my age. It wasn't a parent there. But, um. We'll start her with Bikini Kill and we'll see how it goes from there. Right. Um, did she already play? Cause this is awful. I think she played like August. I think it was just like international. Yeah. I think it was like last month. Yeah. I'm just going to look up how expensive the tickets were on the stuff up. Yeah. Um, a chapel. Wrong. Same thing. Yeah. Even smaller venues. Um, Sabrina Carpenter is doing. Yeah. Okay. But, um, anyway, Oasis. Um, yeah, not, not really. We considered a great live band in their day for, yeah, I mean, a variety of reasons, you know. Yeah. The brother's, the brother's feuding. Um, you know, this to me and I, I am, I am sorry if we have die hard Oasis fans, this feels like a cash. I mean, sure, like this feels like a straight cash. Um, in an era where I think artists, um, um, probably most, most prominently Taylor and Zach Bryan have been not rinsing their audiences nearly as much as they could. Sure, at least on the initial fight. This feels like a rinse. Yeah. Um, which, hey, if that's what took to get, uh, the Calgary's in the same room. Yeah. But these tickets were really fun, expensive in the European. Like I then take a master crash. Anyway, of course, um, but I, I, again, again, if you're, if you're booking European vacation based around this, it's not a bad idea because Europe's, yeah. Sure. Well, the Europe ones are twice a year now. Um, but I, I would, I would be, I was very comfortable booking Taylor Swift tickets on a European trip. Right now, I guess, I mean, again, they tend to really experience. I mean, the tour could be going fine. You could just get the show where they start throwing beer bottles at each other. Like I said, yeah, that might be a feeling to you. Yeah, that's, that is, that is something. Um, and not even necessarily about something. But I, I, that, I, yeah, I, I could, I could one see these concerts not happening and two, I could see them playing like a 65 minutes. Yeah, whatever it is tough to say. Yeah. There's a lot more variance. There's a question. Um, you gotta think of like a super high variance player, like, I'm retiring early and then I'm retiring. I don't even serve a baseball example of that. Yeah, I can't really, I guess Anthony Kim would be the golf example. I mean, I'm not really a tennis, but not really like they just keep playing. It's not like, right? Like, it's, this is a tough, tough, like Tyler Matzick. Tyler Matzick. Yeah, it might be Rich Hill. Rich Hill was never like big, though, it was the other thing. I don't know if Rich Hill was big enough. Yeah, I guess. Don't be quite fit. And look, let's, let's hope the Oasis reunion goes as well. Rich Hill's 17 different comes back. Rich Hill's. How much would you pay for Oasis tickets right now? Like 5% in the audience. Yeah, I know. I forget the cause. It's got that. It's really fun. Cute for the P from Brian at all levels. It feels like there have been a massive amount of down arrows on hitters. What are the 2024 up arrows? Vientos and Hasis Baez? Anyone else? Yeah, I guess, uh, Davison Gutierrez possibly. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. At what point will they start to let some of the hitting infrastructure go next few weeks from I know the guys? Also, any thoughts of potential candidates help fix some of the org issues? That's tough because, you know, most of the players, most of the people, not players, most of the coaches that are going to be able to do that are like kind of below, below the radar. Right. Yeah. I do want to mention that this is not, I mean, it won't be, though, I guess. Technically. Um, I do want to mention Trace later got to the low A. Yeah, it is. I'm presuming that that's not a plus of barrels. They're pretty significant. Yeah, I guess. Like the underlying there is still not, there's still a lot of projection of Molotear, but yes, I think generally speaking, it's been a good season for him. Uh, Boston barrel is, uh, maybe who we're looking for here. You're going to buy us a barrel. You think they're the obvious thing? Yeah, it's good. We're sending a bunch of home runs and jet Williams is back. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, sure. I'll see them in the IFL. Yeah. All right. So we have a couple of questions from the discord. They continue the CM Punk true back and tire bracelet angle. It's like, appeared to have flown off yesterday. Yeah, I mean, yeah, storyteller was. It was yesterday. Uh, or no, it's Saturday, Saturday, Saturday, whatever. That's from Tom Q for the P. Do you feel managers ever really get better if they're in game deficiencies when it comes to decision making? Or are they usually stuck in their ways the entire time of their tenure? Do you think Mendoza ever improves? Are we going to be stuck with how he currently is? They eventually hire any staff. Am I just reading too much into what a manager does? And along those same lines from. M Ross has analytics given rise to better and more critical ways to evaluate manager performance. It's a greater scrutiny. Um, well, one. Um, yes, of course managers get better. Right. Yeah. It's hard for a kona considered. He was a disaster. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course they do. Yeah. Um, and you can easily see that over the course of their progression. I, I have no idea. That's the problem with hiring. If Carl's been doing it better or worse or indifferent or I don't know. Yeah, I just don't know. What they do? Yeah. I mean, you can, I don't think there's like a decision. I mean, there are decision sciences. That's an actual thing. But like actually analyzing. It's very hard to put data on using film, a ton in the ninth night, right? Because I mean, the team, the org probably knows if Diaz was available or if Diaz is only available under certain circumstances or if Diaz was not available at all. Or if it was a Mendoza ed choice to give him an extra day or something else. I don't know. Or who was behind that. Right. It was Jeremy Hefner. Right. Who might be the leading voice in there as a pitching coach. I don't know. My guess is if you could put everyone under truth serum, it was probably some sort of. Probably stern, but some sort of model is that he threw four and five he has to sit for a day. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't, again. Look, and also what I want to interrogate the phrase evaluate manager performance a little bit. What do you mean? We obviously see the tactical foibles, right? And someone that's going to be outcome based, not necessarily process based. And look, the outcome, again, to take it back to the Arizona game, like. You're bringing Edwin Diaz there. Like Edwin Diaz probably has to get either Haven Smith or her alto a paradigm out and not walk both and bring up Corbin Carroll. Do you want to run it back to the process base? Like you're asking Edwin Diaz to do an up down in that situation. He's got to face Corbin Carroll on the up part. So that's not ideal either in a one run game, but at some point, like the players have to take some agency within the success or failure of individual moves, right? That's just that my baseball is messy. It's the easiest way to put it. And also just a large part of the managerial stuff. And I think this gets overblown a bit at times is, you know, whatever the soft skills might call that the human resources aspect of it. I have no idea Mendoza's any good at that. I mean, I suspect if you asked Francis Oindoor or Halopes, you'd get two different answers. But yeah, I mean, it's not. And a lot of this, again, is post hoc analysis, right? It's like. Good teams always have good chemistry. Good teams always have good managers, right? Yes. I mean, say what you will about Andy Martino. We've said a lot over the years. He is correct when they say, if they give him good players, he will be a good manager. Not in the way he means, but it is a correct statement. All right. That takes us to the wrestling portion of the show. So you want to talk about Sid? I want to talk about Sid. Yeah, I certainly have formative figure in my younger wrestling years. I mean, if you're an eight, whatever, a, you know, pre adolescent wrestling pad, like Sid Vicious is cool, right? Yeah. Dude does a power bomb. Great look. Somebody, I think this melts are called a squash mattress. Yeah, let's go ahead and find it, which is. Yeah, but I think people. He was not a good worker. He was an extremely limited work. 10 PM. I really want to go to sleep. I don't want to have a 20 minute conversation about the nature of a good worker. Sure, sure. But in one. He was a good worker under the Kevin Nash definition. Yeah, he was just a poor self survey. Yeah. Yeah, he was. Especially for the positions he was put in in the amount of time. He was very effective in the roles and when she was used. He was. And I think this is. The way his career went, which again, a lot of this was his own doing. I don't want to move his own agency and deciding to go play softball or play contract that nature. And I don't really want to talk about those either because this is a remembrance of the guy. It's not a bird or the guy. He multiple times over the course of his career because he was so good at playing a charismatic big guy. The audience turned, had the audience turned him face. Right. The Hogan one is the obvious one. Right. And that all happened in WCW with the four horse men. It happened with the Shawn Michaels angle, 96, 97. Where the audience just decided this is our guy now. He's cool, right? Yeah. And that is, you know, aren't there people that will say that meant he was not an effective feel. And there are people that will say, man, maybe he should have went with that. Or man, maybe, oh God, who was booking WCW at the end of 1990? Only Anderson. Only Anderson. The four watts was like 90. There's somebody in between. Only there's the CD guy between. Only when Flair lost the book at the beginning of '90. No, there was like a Jim Hurd era. Jim Hurd, that's who it was. Yeah. I mean, this happened around the black scorpion time, which was lovely. Dusty comes back and gets the book in like spring '91. So this is, and the sit stuff where Sid got turned fish was in like 90, around the time the black scorpion stuff where the quasi turned for a little bit. They were feuding with like Doom. Sure. Yeah. I was, I was watching them, but it's a little before. You're not the only person that remembers obscure details of wrestling. Yeah. For six. Anyway, a lot of that is like rewatch that stuff in later years. Yeah. And my teens are in college or whatever. Please watch a lot of wrestling tips. But yeah, he was, he was just really cool. He was a really cool character. He was really charismatic. He had really unique interviews. He was a very effective worker as long as you did not ask him to heavily sell. As long as he was on top, he was a really effective worker. And he couldn't sell well, but only in specific circumstances. And often just one tip or something. Yeah. He was fired too by the role he was doing. He made up ended the Halloween havoc in '90 that year against Sting. Yeah. It was like right after that, but he ought to kind of turn them. Like back. Yeah. I think it was very after. I think it was like leaving the star kid that year. And then he ended up leaving. And then they, you know, he was going to end up as the top face in the company. And then he left to beat the top. He owned up the F. And they turned him. Yeah. Well, they were always going to turn on. Right. They brought him as a face to turn him on Hogan, which was a pretty common usage of that. But the crowd went with him instead. They didn't go with it. And then he left because of a drug issue, drug suspension. Which again, to be clear, the Sid drug issues were steroids and weed. They were not. Yeah. Okay. They were not heroin. They were not. They were the common drug. Yes. The early '90s in WWE. That was not apparently a contributor. He apparently got non-Podskin's lymphoma for a random weed killer. I saw somebody say it. It was very sad. I guess, you know, he had hit his cancer and then he had gotten COVID. And I made things a lot worse. And then he passed away really long, too. It was very sick. It was just very sad. You know, a lot of people had really nice things to say about him. He was really nice to a lot of people. There's a minority of people who he had issues with. Most notably, Arne Anderson and Brian Tillman. They apparently came and Arne Anderson had reconciled within a year or two after that. But, you know, they almost killed each other. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Bye. Which got him fired from WCW. In another example, the situation where he was going to be giving the ball around is the top ABA face and never got there. Which was in like three. But yeah, just kind of, yeah. There's like an alternate reality where it's like the defining baby face wrestler of the 90s. Right. And it's just that there were forks in the world where that could have happened. And for reasons, some within is control and some without his control. It didn't happen. But yeah, he was one of the most memorable and entertaining characters of, I think, the period in which both of us were watching wrestling. For both Ernest and ironic reasons at times. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think both of us were always watching wrestling a little bit, ironic. Sure. You know, it's not. There's not zero factors in there, too. But he, you know, he was, he was a pretty iconic character for a long period time, although only intermittently during those periods. So they passed away. But obviously at the, obviously his career as a major wrestler was not over and would have probably continued, you know, he probably would have gotten shot during the invasion or after the invasion. Sort of run. Yeah. He was still on like, he would have thought like there's late 30s then. Yeah. But he suffered a horrible like break. Yeah. Right at the end of WCW and really didn't wrestle much after that. Yeah. And he was sold. He was only in his third season at that time and definitely would have been a guy that would have fit into that late attitude early ruthless aggression there of WWE, probably better than most of the places he actually wrestled. It's unfortunate. That's wrestling portion of the show. I'm vaguely aware there was a 35 minutes Walter Randy Orton. Neither of us watched all in, neither of us watched Bass in Birdland. I'm going to go to sleep. We'll see you next week for another edition. Afro you kids out there. [Music] Breaking news from this one is almost unbelievable. Yeah, it's all about new customers at bet 365 because they get $200 in bonus bets when they bet $5 and even better bonus bets can be used on the spread, totals and player props. There you have it. Bet $5 to get $200 in bonus bet and see why. It's never ordinary at bet basis five. The gambling problem? Color text 1 and 100 gambler. 21 plus only. Must be physically located in Colorado. 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