But it's been a cool journey to have put modular and prefabricated components into so many projects over the years. And now it can say, I get to touch at any given time, I'm working on 10 different projects and figuring out what the right prefab strategy is for each one. So it's just continued to be that evolution of adding value and seeing the built world kind of rise around you, type of thing. Welcome to Buildings 2.0, where we dive deep into the technology, trends, and visionaries reshaping the very structures we work in. Here's your host, Jose Cruz Jr., CEO of Integrated Projects. Hey everyone, thanks for listening to another episode of Buildings 2.0. Today, I'm speaking with Bill Steery, Chief Fabrication Director at Kinsili Construction. Bill, thanks for chatting with me today. Thanks Jose, glad to be here. Bill, take us back. So before you were working on some really, really big projects, I'm right, Kinsili, you were just skin grown up. Why buildings? Why now? Kind of came into a bit backwards, started in the manufacturing side as an industrial engineer, was working in medical devices, one to make sure I was adding value and products and building something was always adding value. We then, myself and a few partners kind of looked over at the construction industry and said, there's parts of that that could be turned into manufacturing processes. And we were actually the first ones to start manufacturing modular bathroom pods in the U.S. We had our first factory in Massachusetts. It's now Sherpods and it's down in Florida and out in the West Coast in Arizona. And there's other companies out there that do it now too, but 20 years ago, we leaned into it. We didn't really see it coming, but it's been a cool journey to have put modular and prefabricated components into so many projects over the years. And now at Kinsili, I get to touch at any given time, I'm working on 10 different projects and figuring out what the right prefab strategy is for each one. So it's just continuing to be that evolution of adding value and seeing the built world kind of rise around you, the type of thing. You've talked about industrialized instruction. And if you use references like Word Model T, kind of making implications of like a kind of assembly line or productization of construction, compare that approach compared to perhaps what the traditional construction industries is used to. Yeah, so the traditional industry is the Latin word is that everything's built in situ. It's built in place. In fact, our metrics we track are even things like put in place work. Like, what did you put in place today? industrialized construction as a term is thinking about construction in more non-project specific manners and what can you pull off and turn into products? And then prefabrication is just what can we actually pull off and pre-build it, usually off-site and bring it to the site in a just in time manner. So how I view it, Jose is industrialized construction. It is the journey we're on to turn construction into more of an assembly of parts at the job site in a controlled process with more products. And therefore the project is not such an overwhelming part of it because I think today a lot of people in construction, these gets so focused on their project, it almost works like blinders on somebody. And they don't see the world outside of it. They're not thinking about, hey, how do I improve this process so I can do a little bit better next time because it's not on my project. And so we're trying to think of it a little more holistically. So the fly, we again, back to like Model T or in today's world, we talk about the Toyota production system, right? If you're building a Toyota every day and you're coming back to that factory day after day, you really get to hone that flywheel and build that product better and better and that's kind of where we're trying to get to here. Yeah, the assumption is that if successful in terms of cost, in terms of speed, in terms of kind of quantity leading to quality, that there's a certain sense of perfection over time. Right. I mean, you think about, there's a quality term called Six Sigma. It's literally defined in the words, right? Six Sigma, if you look at a normal distribution curve, it means three errors roughly per million widgets produced. That's an incredible quality level. It's as close to perfect as you can get. And that's what the Toyota production system, lean systems in general are chasing and construction. That's where we're trying to get to construction. The more it's in situ project base, a lot of what we do every day is just risk management, contingency, trying to figure out what the unknowns are out there. We're trying to just break that down. The more you can turn into controlled manufacturing processes done in warehouses and factories, those places are safer. They're easier to manage, they're more productive. It's going to make your job site go better. And that's as a CM. That's what our role is. Our role is for the client, cost certainty, schedule certainty, safe job site, not bothering existing operations on campus. So this leans into all that, right? Right. Right. I mean, there's so many angles, I think from a technical, social, regular story, economic, just maybe start on the technical. It's true today that wasn't even true, say five, 10, 15 years ago. What can we uniquely do today with the technologies out there? Yeah. So I'll give you an easy one there. When we started modeling prefabrication elements, we were using manufacturing software like SolidWorks because Revit really wasn't a major thing back then. And so there was a whole kind of, we weren't speaking in even the same language as the architect was designing it. And so as kind of the Revit platform kind of accelerated, we shifted our design work over into that. So we were immediately, natively working with the architects. So it was funny, he didn't feel it at the time, but it was a huge step up. So we're now talking natively the same language. We're able to design elements that dropped straight into their model. It's the first step of working to a product and not a project, even though the whole model was the project. So now today, 20 years later, you've got the Revit continues to advance. You've got as-built scanning, you've got drones, you've got video capture with cameras on your vest. You can feed that right in and compare as-built to digital to reality, the digital twin. So that's been really exciting. And what it's done for prefabrication is, as you can understand what the real as-built is, you can make sure that you're prefabricated, whatever that is, your panel goes into that cavity properly. Or you can, if you designed it to the digital, as the physical is manifesting itself, you can then make sure the physical is going to match what you were expecting. So your product is going to go into the position exactly. That's where we are today. I think the other thing that's really exciting is, as you think forward for five years is, that's giving you this whole platform for AI. So now AI can look at your video camera and say, "Oh, as you walked around today, Jose, on the job site, the drywall wasn't up in that section of the building," or the headwalls didn't go up there. That was on the critical path for today. So as the contractor makes my job tomorrow easier because it can flag me in the morning and say, "Hey, the headwalls didn't go in yesterday," or the gypsum didn't go up. You need to go look at that and figure that out. So it really starts to escalate for you. What's the critical path? What's the plot one or two items you got to work on versus kind of the proverbial, always putting out a thousand fires at any time? Right. I hope you understand that the paradigm shift, if I'm a construction company and there's two options, traditional company number one and then perhaps more of a kind of a prefabrication first approach. How does that change a company's ability to price, help me understand the business model, the pricing, the budgeting for, say, a set project, right? You've got one company who's going to build on site, you've got another company who presumably has a warehouse and perhaps a fundamentally different cost structure. Help me understand perhaps traditional versus the economic model, what you're selling. It's a great question because it's really an area where a lot of folks get tripped up on, which is how does the prefabricated element truly compare to the in-situ construction element? I'll kind of use a cheat code here and jump on the head wall side. If we talk about medical head wall, so these are the things that go behind the patient bed. They have med gas. They have critical circuitry. There's a couple of companies out there that have really elevated their gain here. Now, you can still build those in situ. You can hire your electrician and your med gas and so on to go in and do that. And if you're going to do a very customized head wall and each one's different, you might still want to pursue that avenue. So you do have to think always about what are you solving for and you're always solving for the client's issues, not your own, right? But there's a couple of the companies out there that have really elevated their game and a lot of the healthcare networks have standardized around their products. And so in those cases, it has become almost a product. So I can sit here and say, I can go buy my head wall from company A or B and the pricing is this or I can build it in situ. So now you're analyzing the in situ to go, okay, I really need to understand. I've got to cut an order to the framer, an order to the med gas, an order to the electrician. They've got all stacked themselves up sequentially. So there's a timing element. There's always a schedule element to this, not to mention the quality, which a lot of people don't put value to the quality. But these head wall companies that do it, the quality is outstanding. So you've got to factor all of that in and say, okay, I can cut one P.O. And these 50 head walls can show up next week. And I just put them up in the stud cavity and I'm done. So there's like a simplicity, a waste reduction, a quality element, a less people on the job site, safer element. There's a whole bunch of elements there. And also, as always, schedule and cost certainty to the developer. Or I can kind of manage it the way I've always managed it. And I just need to be able to be aware of all those other factors I rattled off that those are going to have impacts. And also, there's then there's contingency, which is always our job, right? Contingency versus I buy this thing. It's like, there's nothing unknown. I'm buying it. It comes in. There's no drama. It's done. So you really have to factor all of that in. And that truly, your question is where it can get tricky if you're unaware of some of those elements. Yeah. You've been around the industry for some time and pre-fabrication as a concept, as well as execution of nothing new. You've seen companies kind of approach in various ways, perhaps the kind of the most public version of this was a company like Katera kind of trying to streamline. And what are the different flavors and versions of pre-fabrication that we should be aware of? And what are some of the lessons learned that like, you know, maybe chapter one versus chapter two versus where we are and what we've learned, how we should be approaching this? I always preach on every job. And I would say this is to the whole industry. There's no reason not to be doing single trade pre-fabrication on every project on almost any scope. If you have a repeatable element of a building, like if every room in that building or every guest room in that hotel or what have you, it's going to have a couple of GFCIs. I'm going to use an electrical as an example, not to pick on the electricians, but it's an easy one to understand. I've got a GFCI. I've got a light switch. I've got a light. Those ones are going to go in every one of those hotel rooms, every one of those dorm rooms. If I have a space, if I have a warehouse, why am I not taking a tote back in my warehouse and labeling this room one, two, three and putting everything that goes in there and it's all pre-wired, pre-spooled, pre-tag, pre-identified, I'm getting a roughly 50% kick in my warehouse more productive. I'm limiting all that waste off the job site. The job site is always the most expensive place where we're operating on a daily basis. So the faster I can get, and I'm saying this is a subcontractor now, the faster I can get in and out of that job site, the better I should be doing. And if I'm not, I should be figuring out how to do that. And as a CM, I'm happy because they just came in and out and got their scope of work done really quick without disrupting my other operations. So it's kind of a win-win all over the place. So that's like the basics. That's learning to crawl before you walk type of thing. The harder areas are the multi-trade prefabrication. This is multi-trade racks. These are bath pods. These are panelized facades. We're seeing some interesting areas of structural systems now between the cold-form steel hybrids and mass timbers coming along. And then that starts to enter the whole sustainability. And we're seeing different requirements for non-combustability as well as energy-efficient buildings and passive house and all of that's coming into play here. So when you've got multi-trade prefab, the added wrinkle to it is you've got to get multiple trades to buy in and to scope accurately. So to your question, this is where you've got to be able to like have AIDS and not just in the digital world to have scope AIDS so you can scope the work accurately. So the goal here is everyone does their job more efficiently, faster, easier, safer. Everyone goes home easier at night because what we haven't talked about is the slow motion problem in construction is we've got two people retiring out for everyone coming in. So the process of construction needs to become more of an assembly of parts of the site and less in situ work at the site. Therefore, this process needs to keep going along. So we need to keep marching to, hey, we could do a penalized facade over there. We could do bath pods over here. We could do head walls over there and identifying that in the pre-construction process because that's when it has to happen or you don't get best value out of it. So all of that, I guess where I'm excited is the AIDS, the work AIDS are becoming that much better that those different trades can understand how their scopes are changing and they can price it correctly so that everyone's doing their job more efficiently, faster, easier, safer. That's the role of the GC and the sub-trades in helping this future come about. So I'm reading between the lines, but it suggests a world where essentially sub-contractors have spaces outside of sites where they have this space to then kind of build these parts and there's families, the electricians, plumbers, et cetera. You're also suggesting that some of the multi-trade fabrications might need additional coordination. How can the GC facilitate this? Does it suggest a world where, like, to even qualify for this stuff, we need a segment of the sub-contracting industry to just qualify with warehousing space to be able to make this happen? I mean, how do you think through the qualifications and criteria and the dynamics between the GC and the subs? So I mean, the first thing that happens is on any given project is for what do you solve in force? So we had a recent project that was up in northern New Hampshire. Labor was pretty sparse up there, qualified, skilled labor was sparse. We knew we were going to have challenges getting enough people to the job site. So you go at that and made your solving for a little bit of a different problem there. So you're going at that project saying, "Okay, we need you to have a space maybe in southern New Hampshire where there's more population density. Do you have a shop? Could you do work there?" And then bring it an hour and a half drive elsewhere. So you start looking at it from that element. I think if I roll your question back as the GC-CM, our role is to make sure we're thoughtfully doing this in precon because we run the precon process and what we know is if we're not baking in these elements then and capturing every one of these solutions has a little bit of a wrinkle to it. So if you don't capture that wrinkle, scope it, cost it properly, accurately, get it into the schedule properly, we're not doing our role. The other thing we should be doing is making a good space for our subs to be able to step in there and successfully provide more value there. If we just contractually write our subcontracts where, "Hey, subcontractor, you can do whatever you want, but if you screw up, I've got a hammer here and I'm going to hammer you like a nail." I mean, that's not really the right answer either. So the subcontractors need to know we know what we're doing and we're scoping the work accurately. We're virtually laying it out as the twin ahead of time so that they can see what their scope is and they can go uncomfortable that they're not like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs knowing that they're going to get their tail whacked a bunch of times. So I view that's our role and then the subcontractors, they need to lean in and say, "How do we get better?" To be fair to the subcontractors, like in the MEP trade specifically, there is some amazingly exciting stuff happening out there at a minimum on the single trade, but a lot of these subcontractors are ranching out into multiple two, three trades and again, providing more value to the project and to us as the general contractor running it on the job site. So that's the exciting part of the day. Do you see that it is the sub trades leading the charge? Is it the CMs? I'm curious if you see me trying there. Oh, that's a great question. I think it's a little of both. I mean, there's some organically coming up from the subcontractors. I've seen some of the panelized facade companies, for example, that kind of came out of the drywall industry, for example, and that's the ability to get your building wrapped faster and potentially with all of your finishes on it. So that's a huge win. Some of the, like I mentioned, the headwalls before, they've almost become just full-on medical device products at this point, they've evolved so much. And then at some of it, it's the CMs. Some of the CMs, the more progressive ones like us, are trying to fill in the gaps as well, whether it's providing coaching and aids and scoping for the subs or potentially doing some of this with our own carpenters and laborers and so on as well. Do you find if there's a spectrum between kind of traditional on-site, great fab and perhaps modular in kind of some other spectrum, I know there's been a lot of regulatory pushback on a lot of the modular projects making it particularly difficult to do modular, for example, in New York City? Do you find that that regulatory pressure versus burden, do you face the same with the way that you approach free fab or is that kind of two different categories in and of itself? Yeah, I think it's funny because if you go look at like the HUD world of housing, that's a very robust market, right? Clayton Homes is owned by Berkshire Hathaway and there's companies out there banging out these HUD homes almost like, and because it's a product and you can just order, you know, they've got five models, you can order the Hathaway model or the this model or whatever, and they deliver it. I'll tell you what, you go up in the rural areas, like you go up in the rural main, for example, and there's a lot of modular homes up there going great. So there's a robust regulation industry supporting that because those factories aren't in every state at all. When you get down into the commercial side and some of the more honed processes, there are areas where we're really comfortable, like there's third-party inspection processes being run by the big inspection firms, the NTAs, which is part of ICC and InterTech and so on. And there's a whole bunch of them. I'm just naming a couple of them that there's a robust process. I think you're always going to find specific municipalities when you bring up one of the two most challenging probably in the country, New York City and then the other ones Los Angeles, that they have their own almost like regulatory inspection reports. And so those may be specific hurdles you've got to jump through, but I kind of go out it, Jose, like I kind of go out with Pareto's law, like I worry about the 80 percent of the market I can address with the 20 percent of the product and not, you know, New York City. Yeah, there's always going to be some stuff can go just fine in New York City. But when you get into those little wrinkle areas that, okay, let's take a pause here. Again, let's figure out what we're solving for with the client and if that regulatory environment is almost too burdensome, maybe we pivot another way or we're going to go back and look at the subcontractors and so on in that market because there's always a successful element that's been done in that market. Maybe just I did bath pods in New York City. It took a year to get approved for it, but once it's approved, it's done. Sometimes people just have to blaze the path forward, you know, talk to me about housing. So I just wrapped up an event just yesterday where some city officials from from New York where they're talking about housing at this point, it's kind of a trope, right where the housing supply is we need much, much more of it. What role does Prefab or what role can it play in really scaling up housing across country? So I mentioned the hide housing that it's actually probably one of the best value like providing value around the country right now is a macro element. The other one Prefab that I'm excited about, I've been asked a lot within our company like, what's the fastest way to start driving the cost for bed per key, whatever your metric is, right? In a Metro market. So let's not just focus on like downtown Manhattan, but let's think about the broader market. I mean, the New York market is 20 million person market and it goes all the way out Long Island, halfway down New Jersey, an hour drive up into West Chester County. That's like the Metro market. And then certainly what we're looking at a consigly is we're trying to come up with a rapid implementation for kind of more of the dense urban market. How can we use cold form steel framing, which is non combustible, which is becoming more of a big thing in the Boston market now, we've got the new energy stretch code. So the buildings almost have to be like kind of passive house compliant, non fossil fuels from the get go very efficient wall assemblies, high performance windows. So we're looking at how to marry some of these different technologies, high performance windows with non combustible cold form steel for a rapid erection building that can go up almost as fast as wood could, but in a non combustible format. And again, keeping the cost per whatever your metric is your cost per square foot, your cost per key at a reasonable amount so that we can add beds in the city or in New York City, which we also build in and add them quickly and affordably. Because that's the whole thing. If you can't build a structure for under, I'm just going to make a number up, right? Like in New York City, like you can't do it for under 600 bucks a square foot. That comes out in the rent and it keeps everything unaffordable. So to me, prefab as a strategy seems obvious. What are some of the challenges that are keeping the industry from adopting it much faster or perhaps from your view, you are in fact seeing it being adopted quite a bit. It's just in different pockets of the country. What are some of the reasons why more CMS, GC subs don't jump on this? It's a couple of things. It's the lack of understanding. I mean, I've personally been putting bath pods into new hotels, new dorms, new apartment buildings, new military barracks for the army for 20 years. And yet you still find a developer that's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This is brand spanking new. I don't want to do it. It's like, there's nothing new about this. The JW Marriott down there has bath pods in it. And trust me, Marriott wouldn't allow that if they had a lack of confidence in that. And that's just one example, right? Hilton's done a lot too. Some of the tallest, biggest, largest projects in the country have those in them. So it's lack of understanding. It's the fragmentation of the industry. What's the first thing a developer typically does when they get authorized to go build a building, they get funded, whatever that looks like? They go hire an architect and they maybe go hire like a separate CM. And they're immediately from the day one, they're siloing kind of the parts of it off. So the architects responsible solely for the design and the CMs responsible solely for the construction. But yet you're trying to look here for like a harmonized design for manufacturing design for construction, industrialized construction. So you're really, again, we're going back to like the Toyota production system. Toyota doesn't split their engineer designers away from their manufacturing engineers. They put them all in the same room and say, figure it out, folks, like, let's go. So it's all of that. It's the lack of understanding. It's the lack of knowing how to scope it, how to cost it to show that whether it's cost effective or not, it's even just the lack of like, I think some CM firms, they're just resistant to try something new because they don't get rewarded for it. They get punished and they don't look at it anything from a one project. Like, let me give you an example. The first time you rode a bike, was it a good experience or did you fall over? But after you rode the bike 10 times, my goodness, you can get anywhere in town in five minutes when you were a kid. So the risk reward of learning to ride the bike was so worth it, but not for one time. And that's where like, I want you to try this panelized facade thing over here. And the first time, you might only get 60 to 70% of the value of it. And by the way, there is going to be some little catch on it. I'm not sure what it's going to be yet. And we're going to have to fight through it. But by the time we're on our third or fourth one, my goodness, we're going to be so much better than we were before. And that's even the thing in this industry where they don't reward. This is the only industry. This is the largest industry in the world that has no R&D budget. Think about that for a minute, right? The drug companies are spending billions. The AI companies, the chip companies, they spend billions getting faster, better, cheaper. And here we are not willing to even try a robot that would lay brick down for me because it's not like this first time it might kind of go 50%. But next time, well, not on my project, I don't want that on my project. So it's all of that are the challenges and we're not even talking about the subcontractors resistance to understanding that like their scope may change. But I mean, they might get off the job twice as fast. They might get off the job with twice the profit margin they did otherwise. So it's really just rethinking how we build in the built environment. Yeah. And it makes me think there's a natural incentive here where some organization, whether it's the builder who's organically evolving into the developer themselves, the owner going downstream and doing the design construction of themselves. But what I find is that you compared it to different industries, right? I think what makes AC unique for better for worse is that we think things in projects, right? There's a project. There's a card call, soft calls specific to that one. We move on to the next may have perhaps no connection to the previous one, right? That's challenging, right? And I think what you're suggesting here is a difficult and make the difficult to then justify R&D budgets and whatnot. What are the right scenarios that need to exist in order for us to get this thing right? I mean, you need to have either the right developer who has multiple locations, right? That would justify some sort of productization process with the right thinking and budgeting and the right kind of long term view. Are there examples of projects or perhaps partners that you're putting together that think this way to make these kind of scenarios uniquely possible where we're instead of thinking about projects, we're thinking about partnerships and conservation. There are, and I look to those, Jose, I'm very encouraged by those. So there are some of the major healthcare networks are looking out there and saying, we are building the same ambulatory surgical center all over the country. So that's one example, right? But these are the places now where everybody can go and like day surgery, get their knee or their hip replaced as they get older and their knee fails or what have you. So I can build it in a 20 bed version, a 40 bed version, a 60 bed or an 80 bed. And it's just like, it's just a modular scalable type thing. I'm calling it a playbook. It's a playbook. It's a standardized, so they have a master architect who's designing this and it's literally turning it into a kit of parts. So we've got bath pods designed in here and you can order the bath pods from any of these three companies and their pricing's already pre-established. And there you go. You can order the head walls from these three groups. You can order the panelized from a facade from these groups, depending on where you are in the country. Pricing's pre-done. So again, pricing certainty, schedule certainty and all of that doesn't need to be redesigned. So you're seeing these developers come in and say, here's the playbook. Like I don't really need you to figure out, I don't need an architect locally to figure out almost anything. I just need you to adjust it for the local spot, the local job site, local code, be my local partner on it. But from a design perspective, the design cycle is not six months. It's one to two months. And from a contractor perspective, half of the building has already been prefabricated elsewhere. So I don't need you, Mr. contractor, to be doing as much as you did before. I need you to just show me that you can demonstrate to me that you can assemble a kit of parts on site. And when you have names like HCA and Kaiser and others doing this, UHS and so on, that's encouraging because all of the healthcare networks in the country are watching this. And they're saying, if I'm going to build four new healthcare spaces in a certain market next year, I want my nursing care and my healthcare network, my doctors and nurses to be able to go to any one of those buildings and have a standardized head wall, standardized layout, standardized room, so they can go in and they can orientate in five minutes. So this is where it's starting. And now you can start to see elements of that rippling into the large apartment developers, the large university networks. They're like, oh, I see what industrialized construction can do here. And I can see a successful implementation of that. Never underestimate the value of copycat. Because once somebody's proved out that it can work, everybody else will pile in. Nobody just wants to be the first to jump in the pool. Right. Right. Gosh. So many threads here that I excited to dive into. I think to shift back to your personal side, you've been on this for, I think, more than a few years here. But looking back, you started as a student in industrial engineering. What would you tell a young bill after the years of experience looking back what he should be aware of and what he should be paying attention to a decade or two ago? So I wasn't wrong back then on going into an added value type of like going in with that mindset of let's add value, let's build something, whether it's manufacturing construction is almost irrelevant. I would certainly say to my college aged person, like anybody would be be directionally accurate. But don't worry about being like spot on like you'll never be spot on when you go out there at 21, 22, whatever. I heard a podcast recently where somebody said something really smart. They said, use your 20s to kind of try stuff out and see what you like and find your direction. So even me, I kind of directionally knew where I was going, but I went into manufacturing and I was like, oh, but construction is kind of cooler in a way. Like I personally enjoy being out on job sites and so on and still having that manufacturing, being able to go back into a factory after the fact. So don't be afraid of that. And then the other one, I think you and I hit on a little bit prior was like, have some of your core tenants, those will drive you. And for me, it was always, it was that lean mindset. Once I really got introduced to lean and one of the better examples of it is the Toyota production system. But there's a lot of great tenants to lean continuous improvement, eliminating waste. And always, you could just continuous improvement means you always need to get better. You're never at the end of your journey, which that encourages an open mindset, which tells you keep learning, you're never there. You can always do better. And that would be another thing I'd say to somebody just coming out in the industry. Don't be afraid to dabble, have a couple of these core guidelines like lean that can really drive you through your career, no matter where you go. And then just directionally figure out what type of thing you want to go at. And then you'll figure the rest out. I often like to end the session with a question perhaps in the reverse, which is we're often asked to talk about some of the emerging technologies, AI, digitization, et cetera. 10 years from now, 10 years from now, we'll probably back and, you know, lack out ourselves because we found it silly because what we find is novel today, you know, may have been out of date. But question for you is in 10, 20 years from now, what is likely not going to change about the way that we interact and we build buildings? Yeah. So it's funny, construction, people from the outside, like you brought up the cotero thing. People from the outside look at construction, they go, why is that industry so broken? Why can that industry not get out of its own way? And again, the classic is the Mackenzie productivity curve, right? Of every other industry, you know, farmers, they buy the John Deere's now one farmer with a robot can go farm like freaking 10,000 acres a day or something, you know, it's crazy. And yet here in construction, our productivity is like flat line. Why? And then you go, you know, you spend all day in my headquarters, you know, I sort of insanely smart people, good people trying to do the right thing, engineering degrees, just absolute brilliant people. So the question then becomes like, why? And this is probably the core element to your question of what's not going to change. Construction is still the interface of putting something new on a piece of land. And there are variables every time what's in the land, if it's a renovation is the building structure compromise, what's the soil look like? Like there's just always things you're solving for. And that's, I think, the risk management, that's the things that I don't think will ever change. I think the way we deliver the building will change massively. And that's the exciting part. AI will continue to come in and figure ways to do it faster, smarter, easier. And I do think AI will really latch on to industrialized construction as a technique and encourage reuse of more standardized elements and products. And I think the platform, we talked about the digitization, but the other part of it is the standard elements out in the cloud. I think the design part of it is really going to be fascinating to watch. If you were saying you came from the architectural side, I need a wall panel here. I need a door frame assembly. I can just click and drag out of the cloud. And there's four companies that can fabricate that for me. So we're back to kind of that kind of parts conversation that the big healthcare groups do. So I think that's an interesting area where it changes, but yet that kind of core element of managing the process, there still will be people on site managing the people, managing the risk. I think that will never quite get out of that because that's the interface of the built environment. That's where the real world meets the digital world, so to speak. Though, this has been incredible experience and incredible conversation. For the folks who might want to follow along with your work, what's the best place for them to go? Go to LinkedIn and follow myself, William Siri, but follow Constiggly Construction too, because we put some stuff out on that channel as well, some of our projects we work on. Really cool videos of some of the prefabricated stuff. Go to Constiggly's website, see some of our stuff there, and as always you can reach out to me via LinkedIn or at Constiggly and would be happy to chat more if somebody's interested in this. Super fun conversation. Thanks for joining. Appreciate it, Jose. Thank you. [music]
