[MUSIC] Here's Vladimir Guerrero Jr. And Laddie just keeps on staying in the baseball. >> Up the middle of dive in this by Rafaela, that's off into the alley. Duran to cut it off, Springer's racing into third. He's glad Daddie to second, he's up by 10 feet. He is tossed out at second. He got a little bit greedy. >> I mean, the ball beats it by a mile, but this is just bad base running right here. A wagner with an extra base hit that'll chase it a lot, the slow ball almost got died. He is out at home. He is out at home, let's see if they challenge the play. The Red Sox with another outstanding relay they've done it a couple of times tonight. Got him at home. >> Yeah, that's a great play, good relay off the wall. >> Wow, that is really close. >> Real, fair territory stackers have been mixed to catch. Here comes the runner, Clemente, here's a play at the plate, and he is going to be. >> Got him going around, he's out at home. >> Yeah, the Red Sox have done it again. >> So the Blue Jays have another runner thrown out at home, that's two, and they've had three men thrown out on the bases and four innings. >> I mean, I think when you get down in this park, it's tough, you know, you put up a three spot and it's tough to come back, and we had chances, you know, and I thought the guys really swung the bat as well, and just didn't really cash in on opportunities, but we never want to make outs on the bases, but aggressive outs are okay. And when you're putting pressure on the other team to make really good plays, you know, we're good with that, and tonight they made really good plays. [MUSIC] >> Fan morning, Joe Sports said 5'9" in the fan, Ben, as Frank Gunning, Blue Jays, 5 game winning streak coming to the end, another 6'3" to the Red Sox, two Blue Jays thrown out at the plate, Vlad at second base, Brent, I'm old enough to remember when this was a major sticking point for the Toronto Blue Jays. Remember, they were going to be super serious, super professional. >> No, that's right. >> John Schneider was not going to stand for outs on the base paths, and they got rid of Tayoska Hernandez, they got rid of Lourdes Coriel Jr., and they were the worst base running team in baseball, and like even the smart, like veteran players, like Kevin Kiermer and Matt Chapman were making stupid outs on the bases. >> Yes, I remember. >> Yeah, remember that when that hasn't been an issue because they haven't had anybody on base. >> Like, it's kind of like, it just harkens back to a day gone by, then that was a huge issue for the Toronto Blue Jays. >> Dare I say it, the Blue Jays are back. Back to what I guess that, you snuck it in there, you hit the nail on the head though, their work eyes on base, and they're making outs on the base pass, things are happening, we want the ball in play. >> Also, you and I did six minutes on the Red Sox to Trotius defense yesterday, so I don't know if you were going to ask a team to make some plays, and I don't know where those two nicest relays they've had all season, I will, I would hear the end, can play defense. >> For sure, for sure, but it's just, I mean, it's remark, again, like baseball, silly game, I've said it a thousand times this week, let me say it for the 1st, weird game, weird stuff happened, you see the team booting it around like they did two days ago, seemed to do what they did last night, and yeah, frustrating, but enticing? >> I guess, yeah, Blue Jays with 11 hits, and they hit another couple of home runs, including Will Wagner's first career home run, as he picks up a couple of hits against the lefty, a couple of doubles off the wall and left field as well, the Blue Jays could have won that game, that was a winnable game, I guess it doesn't matter, but I guess I would say this. I know it doesn't matter. >> Okay, I know it doesn't matter, I know that, I know it's over, I know wins and losses irrelevant, I can't help but like yesterday was the first time in a long time I actually felt invested in the outcome of the baseball game, and I don't know if that has to do with the five game winning streak and like how close could they, I'm pretty sure, because I'm trying to self-diagnose, because it wasn't a logical thing, it's not like I was like, this is why, and I just like watched the game, and I was like, come on, beat the red socks in a meaningless end of August game. >> You went to WebMD for sports fandom. >> Yeah. >> You typed in your symptoms and you're not sure what it spit back out at you. >> Well, I'm just, and here's what I came to the result of, I just like this group right now. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And I want to see them succeed. Now individually, they are succeeding, like Will Wagner, oh he was not hitting 500 anymore and he's hitting ninth and okay, is it over, is like that, the David Schneider, Will Wagner run over? It's not, I like Will Wagner, he's found money. Joey Loperfito had the horrible start, he has it, he's a toolsie dude, like Spencer Horowitz, enjoying the Spencer Horowitz over, who doesn't like Dalton Bart, like I just, I find myself enjoying watching this group, and I want to see them rewarded by getting to play music after baseball games, which only happens after victory as we know in pro sports. I get that's, that's how, yeah, that's how players punish themselves. >> Yes. >> After losses, they're not allowed to listen to music. >> No jock jams for you. >> That's right. You'll have to listen to rock and roll part two another day. I don't think that's what the, well, I was about to say like the Gen ZJs, although it's like even the young kids are like kind of old and baseball now, like 23, 24, whatever, whatever it is. I think there's a bunch at play here. I don't think it can be said how much the yo-yo effect of the frustrating part of first part of the season to what we're seeing now, like plays into this. If the first part of the season was disappointing, but of a different variety, I don't know that you'd feel this exact way. Like I think there is something of like you're getting the bends a little bit. You were hitting the depths of not hell, but the ocean, and now you're kind of coming up to the surface. You're getting some air and I know the bend's a bad thing, but like, I think- By the way, I- The good bends, you know, not your bend, you have the good bends. Not to distract you from your point, but did you- Nah, I kind of hit the nail. I kind of laid the plate next to there. Did you see the other, they had a submersible went down to the Challenger deep, which is the deepest part of the ocean, like it's so deep. It's like miles and miles and miles and it takes like hours and hours and hours to get down there. Right. I found a beer bottle down there with like the label still intact. Amazing. Yeah. I like that beer. Yeah, people are offended that, you know, humans are destroying the earth, but- That was the thing that tipped them off. Yeah, like this trash even in the Challenger deep. Is that like a hole in the ozone layer? Yeah. Stuff. I mean, gives an animal a place to live, like in the beer bottle. Like, I don't know. Do they have permit crap? Do they barely have anything down there? I don't know. Because it's like an octopus. It's probably warmed its way in there or something. The things down there don't have ways to see because there's no light, like it's wild down there. I thought you were going, I didn't know where you were going with it, but I thought you were just like tipping us off to the fact that rich guys keep trying to sacrifice themselves. To what? I don't know. But at the bottom of the ocean. No. I'm just going to keep going down there. I keep going down and I know, hey, it just happened to Ted. It's not going to happen to me. Yeah. Guess what? Keeps happening. I don't think this was rich guys riding in a submersible with a PlayStation controller. Okay. I think this is actually like a research- Like a real mission. Yeah. Not to go too far afield, but it is wild that like, we know more about outer space than we do the depths of the ocean. It's a good point. I don't like is it. It's very difficult to get down there. Apparently, I would have thought hard to get up there. Yeah. Apparently not as hard as going that deep into the ocean. Well, I guess that makes sense though, because like there's more plain, I would think there's more planes in the sky on any given day and that's closer to space than there are like submarines cruising around mid-depth, right? Yeah. Like I'd imagine. Yeah. I would know you're not wrong. You're not wrong. Unless there is some massive submarine travel world that I'm not a part of. You roll them rich guys circles. Yeah. Has any of that made its way to you? Yeah. No. I know. The only submarine I've been in is at the West Edmonton Mall, they have the submarines. God. I was about to. I thought you were about to tell me a story of a cruise gone wrong, and there was a rescue mission or something, but no, just a. No, no. West Edmonton Mall. What don't they have there? Oh. Have you never been? No. I go to Alberta to play golf, not go to the mall. Smart. Yeah. I wouldn't go in the winter, but that's why they have the mall. Let me tell you what I'll be making my first trip to the West Edmonton Mall when my son's playing in the brick. That'll be the first time I've been making my trip to that. I don't think that's happening, but if it is, that would be the time to make the trip. Anyways. Right. There's no way to get the ship back on. That's fine. No. It's your last day before vacation. And the boys lost a meaningless game to the red zone. And boy, does it feel like? Yeah. No, I do think it's interesting what you break up, though. The idea of like, why does this feel different? I don't think it can be lost of who it's happening against. You just came out of a run where you saw them beat up on a bunch of nothing teams. And you know, I know the White Sox games were a hundred years ago, but it's like, well, always hold them near and dear to our hearts of beating up on the worst team in the history of the game. But then you see a team in the Red Sox who are kind of neck and neck with you. You're not built the same, but you're very much of similar minds in the division right now. If you want a dream of being competitive in this division next year, it's by being better than them at the very least. There's something about doing it in a historic ballpark. I think they kind of brings it adds a little more, you know, life to it makes you feel a different way about it. And then again, just like the idea of fresh life, new blood. So I, I think there's a lot of it. There's men on the basis, like the idea that there's a basis loaded chance. And yeah, I know it doesn't end up ultimately, you know, blowing the game open or getting them all the way back in it. But just the idea of men on the basis actually having a chance life hope doesn't have to be a terrible thing. Yeah. And you know what? The other thing is, is in an alternate reality, I might be terrified that this front office would look at some of the performances and be like, Oh, we saw we don't need to go out and get anything back. It's all right here. Look at Will Wagner and Joey Loperfito and Spencer Horowitz's art and day earning. Like all these guys, I can't imagine we're going to get to that place. I think where we're at, it's a nice place to be where the Blue Jays in this off season do understand the assignment, which is go get a couple of big bats, at least one for God's sakes. But like a couple that hit balls over fences and then everybody's is safe for like Spencer Horowitz and and maybe Ernie Clement is back down in Buffalo. And then when the inevitable injury happens or the poor performance happens and you need to call up one of those guys, it's like, Oh, they already have these these built in reps under their belt. And not only that, the fan base isn't like devastated because they have like this positive equity that's been built over these final two months of the season, like Will Wagner is not going to be on the opening day roster for the Blue Jays in 2025. I don't think. Okay. But what happens if like Spencer Horowitz gets hurt or Ernie Clement gets hurt or somebody gets hurt or you know, you need an extra man in a double header situation and he gets called up. People are like, Oh, Will Wagner and he's been killing it in Buffalo. And we had these couple of months and you know, Fenway Park, it doesn't matter, right? He left you. And then maybe that's his opportunity to take the job and run with it in meaningful games next season. Yeah, no, I like that a lot. I think another thing that just like leads to the feeling of this is that outside of Jake Bloss and even that I think is, you know, a reasonable amount of pressure. There's no, you know, keep of pressure on any one of these guys. Like it is just like again, like you want to, there's no realm of a smart answer. There's a reason they're viewed throughout baseball the way they are, right? But it's like it is just as likely that Wagner is going to have his, you know, successful career is low Perfido or Barger, quite frankly. It's like, again, you can feel how you want about any of those guys is the pecking order isn't the point. The point is that we can debate about the pecking order again, like Bloss is the one guy of this group who feels a little different. Yeah. But then you look at what you've got from a starting pitching standpoint. And again, like who knows what happens with age? Who knows what happens with trades? But that's the what that's the guy you least need to be ready to help kind of right away. Of course, you want him to be good and you want him to be there, but it's the least kind of pressure packed of the positions that you've got to go to backfill on the roster. So that's the other thing that's jumping out to me is that you're right. There is no irrelevant Martinez. We go, okay. Yeah. Run guy. Yeah. Let's let's go. We've been waiting. I've been clamoring for this. And again, like I just you ask why you feel differently about this because of that, like that doesn't not go into the pile of things that have happened this season where the best hitting prospect in the org comes up immediately gets popped with an 80 game suspension. So how can you not love these kids because again, just for the sheer bar of not getting an 80 game suspension already off to a better start? Yeah, pretty good. Flat. A couple more hits, including a double. He's right. He exists as well. Yeah. He hit it. He hit another double yesterday. He's had a couple of these over the last couple of weeks where it's like, I think he had one that was actually a ground ball through the infield that was hit so hard. It went past the outfielder on the ground, but the one he hit yesterday was like just barely over the head of what would have been a defender. And it gets all the way to the wall. Like I know there's very little new that Vladimir Guerrero Jr. can do. But when you hit it 114 miles an hour and it's like three feet off the ground and it gets all the way to the wall, let's not just like ignore this as something that is normal. It's not normal. What Vlad does. I think it's the same. I think it's the same play or game you referenced there, but they were playing somewhere and it was wet grass. Yeah. And Buck just right away was right on it. And again, it's like, this is why he's the best. He just sees things in the game that are once noted, so obvious, but you don't take note of it. Just the idea of, yeah, it's one thing to hit the ball that way on a wet field to. And again, we can sit here and because of the power that's happening, we don't have to talk about it. And what a freaky anomaly he hits the ball as barely as tall as an earthworm and look at how hard it goes. And it can be a cool stack casting as opposed to the point of the referendum that we need to have about this player and what has gone wrong. Like, because the power is there, it unlocks all of the other stuff to just allow it to be a great secondary thing about Vlad as opposed to great. He's the world's foremost hard ground ball hitter. What an awesome thing. You're right. Yeah. If he was still stuck on like 15 home runs, he's like, Oh, that's good. Oh, yeah. No, no, great. Honestly, awesome. More of those, please. Can we get a stack cast leaderboard for balls hit an inch in the air and a plus a hundred and 10 miles an hour? Right. Cause he's done that since 20, right? Like in 22 and 23 he hit the ball very low and very hard, but there was no home runs also there. But no, yeah, the, the ridiculous season continues for Vladimir Guerrero Jr is the OPS plus up to 169. Again, it was 167 in 2021, may I add another log on the fire of why you're enjoying this is, you know, the little bit of the old guy still got it. Kevin, Kevin Gossman seemed to maybe be losing it. He had the little blip of injury post all star break them right at the ship last year. Has the funky start to the season this year? You feel like, Oh, okay, is this and hey, all free agent investments eventually run bad. Some of them at the very tail end. Some of them a little sooner. And you're wondering who is this to start of the chickens coming home to roost. And since then he has had a couple of front of the line, ace type gems. He's been nails. You feel like you have your stopper back. And even when it's not that, it's just rock solid outings. And I think that that was the guy who was the closest thing to a buoy on this team of, okay, you're going to have your stopper. He's going to be the guy who kind of resets things. And he wasn't that. And even him refining it. It's just that's a guy who you do have equity and he's not Addison Barger. He's not Joey Lo for veto. This is a guy that you've watched a lot. He's pitched in important games and big games for the Blue Jays. And to see him kind of refind it, that that's a reason why you're so invested as well. A hundred percent in George Springer having a good spring, but like it beyond that with George Springer, he is not the leader of this group. But like he does feel like something different is happening with him because listen, I've heard some things. I'm sure you've heard some things. There've been some things mentioned about George Springer, he had a very notable benching last season where he was going through his offer $1 trillion, where I did wonder like what kind of teammate this guy is. But it seems like he's really, he's enjoyed and embraced being the old head. And part of that is that like he's not a bizmo anymore. He's not one of the worst qualified hitters in baseball, which he was at the beginning of the season. He salvaged his season. He's not also the guy that was a World Series MVP either. But he's not he's not an active detriment to the Toronto Blue Jays. So that allows him to be that guy that's been through everything that can impart some of his wisdom. But also bring the guys over to his place for a barbecue apparently, like as so the story goes. Like there is, there is a real melding of this team that feels like is happening. And I don't know if it's just because, you know, the stakes are so low and it's so easy to just enjoy it when you know at the end of the day there's really no pressure to win baseball games. But it definitely, and I'll talk, I want to ask Dan Schulman this later when we talk to him. Like if there is a different vibe around the team, it just feels different vibes. Yeah, no, it totally does. I think the Springer thing specifically is, you know, how, how much of a, and you know, not that leadership always has to be like bubbly and fun going fun loving guy, but how much of that could have existed in Springer last year when he's coming back and it's like, you know, it's life and death for him to get games in at the, you know, is he going to come back in August in September? What is he going to look like there? And there's real pressure. It's a playoff team. And all of a sudden, you know, you can sit here and we can have all the conversations about what George Springer is given the Blue Jays in 2024, but that's not why they're in the position they're in. And I think that when you just have a year where you can kind of reset expectations and we're frankly been healthy for more of the year as well. It allows you to kind of be part of that. I think he took moving out of the leadoff in great stride, which again was given everything you've heard, maybe not his favorite thing in the world, not not batting leadoff anymore. And that that is very important as well. If you're going to be Mr. teammate leader guy, you can't be beholden to have to have, you know, your everyone has to do what's necessary for the team to win, except for me. I need my special thing. That doesn't exactly fly. And he again, like I'm sure he didn't love it. He didn't like it, but we heard very little, if anything, of rock in the boat or anything coming out of that. And he got moved into the mythical seven spot. So how could he possibly be upset? That's true. And has a chance. Well, he's going to have, I think, barring something unforeseen, 20 home runs. He's on 19 this season. And for this team, that ain't nothing. Rich Hill didn't get into the game. We saw him in the bullpen. So for the uninitiated, and if you watch the game, you know this, but Rich Hill is 44 years old. 104? Yeah. And if he gets into a game, which you would imagine he would, so he's a Boston area guy, yep, signed a minor league deal for them and like had one appearance with their triple A team and then like up to the big club, you go, if he appears in a game, he'll be the only active player to have appeared in a game in 20 consecutive seasons. Incredible. He's wearing number 44 as a 44 year old. He's been around the block. He has played for 13 major league teams. The record is 14. Edwin Jackson holds that. He's already played for the Red Sox. So that would not be number 14, but if he keeps going and I don't think he wants it. One more team. So Tim Wakefield is the oldest player to ever suit up for the Red Sox. He was 45. He threw a knuckle ball. Yeah. Right. The pitchers do this. Yes. I mean, there's the occasional DH like Nelson Cruz type that they play into their 40s. But yeah, it's generally pitchers. And the guy that comes to mind obviously for me is Jamie Moyer, who I had to remind myself, I was like, didn't he have Tommy John late? He was 47. I like vaguely remember this, but you breaking this down for me before the show is genuinely for Jamie Moyer had Tommy John surgery at the age of 47. Incredible. So he could come back and pitch at the age of 49. And then when he was no good at 49, he was like, can I figure out a knuckle ball? Can I can I? And he was working with some knuckle ballers to try and figure that out. It didn't work out. Yeah, you did throw pitches in the major leagues of baseball at 49 years of age. So 49 is not old old because like, I can see it down the road. Like how do you feel about 49 year old men? I mean, most people have to work into their 60s, right? Or at least 60. Right. So it's not old old, but yeah, in sports terminology, it's ancient, right? Is this is it laudable? Like the Jamie Moyer's rich heels of the world, or is there a sickness to it that you just Hey, man, like rich hills, not going to be winning any Cy Young awards. I don't think. And even Jamie Moyer was like, yeah, not that productive. Now it's pretty amazing that he was like that he was able to throw a major league pitch at all. Yes. At the age of 47. Yeah, these guys aren't difference makers. And if they're on a good team, they're not going to be roster in the postseason. Is there a sickness to it or is it something we should stand up and say, well done? Yes, is the answer to that question. There is absolutely a sickness to it. You should applaud it. I also think it's there is a difference. Like you mentioned, obviously with pitchers, you can kind of do this a little longer. If you're a kind of slop toss guy or, you know, pitch your spots or whatever, but you just it is remarkable to see. The thing I remember thinking about Moyer as I was re reminded about this this morning was I just remember thinking like, does he like his family? Yeah. 47 years old and you still are not ready to go on fishing trips like every day. And if you're a pitcher, it's like you're having TJ. What is the rehab? Sorry. Sorry, honey. Oh, trip. No, can't do it. Got to go do rehab for this 47, no, sorry, 48, 49 year old arm. It's remarkable. So I do think a part of you has to commend them. I think to the to a man, each and every one of those guys would say, yeah, obviously the teams that he good. I'm not anywhere near it. But I think that they're kind of aware of that. They understand what it is. And yeah, it's like impossible not to think of the the kind of vato of it of it with these guys here. And you know, he was he was a spring chicken compared to to rich. Oh, yeah. I I get it. I really do. I mean, if you had a chance to make even a million dollars being with your buds, well that baseball field, that's it. That's just the idea of, I mean, hey, like, you know, like you and I are lucky to get to do this job, right? And there's there's an element that you like I like everyone always jokes. It's like I'm sick. It's like, you know, like I go on vacation. I miss I miss doing this. Like do I miss it at six o'clock of the very start of the morning? Yeah, you know, maybe TBD on that depending on the day. Yeah, but it's like if you do something you love, you genuinely do miss doing it. And you know, some people can retire, like, you know, a professional golfer can retire and go play golf the rest of their lifestyle, right? Like see, you know, Jack Nick was Gary player, lead Trevino, any any of these guys, I don't think Jamie Moyers going to play for the Savannah bananas. If or I don't know, maybe that's terrible, take and they'd love to have them. But if that ain't major league baseball and I just think that's the other part of this is that for those people who do this, there's no other way to replicate it, right? Like I don't care if Jamie Moyer loves playing pickup basketball. No, it ain't the same. Okay, and it's not even about the, you know, the 30,000 people in the building or anything like that. It's about the 25 other guys in the dugout or, you know, whoever he's hanging out within the bullpen or the cards, card games on the flights and all that. Yeah. And if it's over, the league will tell you it's over. Oh, yeah. Like for Joey Votto, the reason he'd signed a minor league, like he wanted to sign up a major league deal, right, where he could have played in the major league. Yeah, and all 30 clubs were like, yeah, no, Joey, that's not happening. And a lot of players in that same situation, most notably a guy that was actually productive last year, Brandon Belt said, oh, well, I'm not going to lower myself to that. So I'll wave goodbye. But yeah, if somebody's going to offer a 44 year old Rich Hill, a major league deal, now it was, and it was a minor league deal, but with the understanding, obviously the Rich Hill was like pretty clear. Yeah. I can go throw my, my slop and my giant curve ball with the left hand and, and maybe, you know, fool some people at the major league level. Yeah. I wouldn't fault anybody for taking an opportunity if it's given to you. The thing is there's a lot of people like the Joey Votto's of the world where it's not given. Now the pitching side of things is different. So you just like, you'll never hear the phrase, God, we just needed a guy to eat a hundred of bats this year. Yeah. And honestly, we were putting together the lineup and they just, we needed a guy that could just, I don't care what he gives us. I just needed a hundred, just give me a hundred plate appearances. That's it. That's all we need. Just stand up there. Yeah. Get hit. Take a walk. Get punched out. I don't get punched out the other way. I really don't care what happens. That's the other difference in this. Right? You'll just, you've never, you've never in your life heard a team talk about it bats or played appearances that way. And you hear team talking about innings that way. All the damn time. Yeah. So, I mean, if your kids into baseball and he's a siding pitcher, hitter, you know, I might want to lean to the pitching side of things quickly on that, my kid, he told me he was going to be a pitcher. And then when I told them, generally speaking, that means no hitting home runs. He immediately failed on that idea. It's like, you know what's sick hitting bombs. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah. To tell him about show. Hey, Otani. So, you know, maybe, well, that's the thing. Well, I got to wait for him to come back. Yeah. I can't have talking about some myth that doesn't even exist anymore. Well, and lots of these guys that end up choosing one or the other did both. Of course. Yeah. It's like Marcus Strongman. Great shortstop for Duke. Anyways, lastly, before we go, Trevor Richards was DFA by the Minnesota Twins. Yes. That wasn't the biggest deal Blue Jays made of the deadline, but it was like he was the pending free agent. It was like, everybody's got to go. It's a pending free agent no matter what we get in return. And you will recall that like Trevor Richards had his moments, right? Like there are times you're like, man, that guy can pitch in leverage. Ticked up a save this season. It was so bad for the twins. It was insane. Now didn't give up a bunch of hits and struck out 13 and 13 innings, but he also in 13 innings. So that is 10 games. He walked 11 and he had like it seems impossible to rack up this many seven wild pitches. So I saw a great tweet that was, I forget exactly. It's like Trevor, Trevor Richards has a great three pitch mix. Yeah. Fastball, change up wild pitch. Yeah. That was the radio broadcaster for the twins was like barbecuing him and his final appearances. So he actually does lead the major leagues with 13 wild pitches. He's only pitched 65 and a 13. He had six as a Blue Jays, but he at least threw 52 in a third innings is he only threw 13 as a twin. It's seven wild pitches. I just love being a J. Like, what can you say? He gets out of Toronto. He's like, Oh, these dastardly royals. I can't believe it. This is the wrong shade of blue. I hate that Amish kid. Yeah. He just the guys just a lifelong J. He never knew it until he left. That was incredible. Also how nice must have been for that twins broadcaster to know like, yeah, I feel safe to light this guy. Yeah. Not going to be an issue. Must have been very nice to have the, have it put on a T for him there. Yeah. But the, I think Trevor Richards is a huge part of the future and I just, I think it might be cool to bring Trevor Richards back in the fall because it's always cool to like trade somebody acquire an asset and then still have the guy in the same season. And well, and if there was ever a position in any sport where he'd just be at least half decent again, it's a bullpen arm. It reminds me of the Brad hand trade. Oh my God. I forgot it. 2021. It's like, all right. Blue Jays fixed their bullpen issue by acquiring Trevor Richards and Brett and Adam Simber. And then at the deadline, another guy, a guy with actual closing experience and he was awful, like awful, actively awful. And that might happen then. And then personally responsible for like multiple, like losses, Blue Jays make the playoffs in 2021. If it's Brad hand, even some modicum, honestly, closer to what he was the rest of his career, because you mentioned it, the next season with the Phillies, when it looked like he was cooked, no, 45 innings, year right, 2.8. Like he was, he was back to me in Brad hand and then he's like kind of uneven, but never as bad as he was in that brief eight and two thirds as a Blue Jays, where like, I eventually got to the point, I was like, I know this is a small sample, but we can't keep trotting this guy out there. Like, did him and the catcher have their science mixed up? I don't know. You know, one is fastball. He's like, no, no. I go to. He's one of those guys and actually we should have done a list of these guys where it's like actually not what you think of them, but because of their tenure with your team that you watch every day, you have this perception. That is different from the reality of the like, right hand, like, pretty good career. Yeah. Yeah. Like, if you played fantasy baseball, you enjoyed having him as like a streaming really picture as a, as a closer had some, some, some games with, with the Marlins and yeah, no, just awful, awful as a boot. That's why like twins fans are like, Oh my God, Trevor Richards was a thing that helped you ever. Yeah. In a baseball game. It's like, yeah, no, he was pretty good. I know. And especially when he figured out the two pitch mix is fastball, like that in the third, the change up was like really unhitable and they're like, no, he's awful. We never want to see him again. God, it's like, you know, they just had to take that one pitch away from Kukuchi and they got to take the wild pitch away from Richards. That's all they got to do to fix him. Just to reinvigorate him. Oh God. Yeah. Find your things have happened to baseball than him being half decent for someone next year. Why not the Blue Jays? Of course. Yeah. Gonna need their guess what they're going to need a couple arms to throw a ye old wall and see what sticks. Yeah. And here's, I mean, again, exemplified by the rich hail of it all, Trevor Richards career, not close to being over. No, not if he doesn't want it to be God, no, all right. When we come back, Maple Leafs training camp coming up next month and it does look like Nick Robertson sticking to his guns will not be signing for the Leafs wants out of town. Well, we'll break down what that means and how much pressure might be on Brad for living to stick to his guns. And more next as the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis Frank Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Everything you need to know about the Blue Jays, Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Then morning show Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Anis Frank Gunning trying to make beliefs have a left wing problem exacerbated by the fact that Nick Robertson didn't want to be here anymore. Said thanks, but no thanks. You've treated me unfairly. I mean, not, I, that's not what he said explicitly, but that's the implication, right? For a guy that is a restricted free agent. Yeah. And there does appear to be an opening on the left side somewhere, you know, played 56 games, the Leafs who's on the playoff roster, but he had scored 14 goals and like I keep saying, who's the, he was second on the Toronto Maple Leafs in five on five goals per 16. But yeah, he's, he wants to take his pocket and go home. And this was reiterated in a report yesterday that nothing's changed there, despite the fact that there is an opening on the left side for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Now this is a guy is not a first round pick, but like at one point was the Leafs prize prospect, right? Like what, what a coup they got this guy in the second round at Peterborough, like, look at all those junior numbers, I don't mean to diminish what he was, but that was also just as telling about the Leafs system as it was about Nick Robertson. No question, but 55 goals of 46 games in his third year in Peterborough. That was it jumped off the page and produced relatively well at the HL problem was the injury. I mean, has he earned the right, Brent? So like we just talked about how Rich Hill's pitching at 44 years old. So his career can extend forever and ever and ever, but eventually it's going to come to an end. Like these professional athletes, their careers are short, right? And if you waste a year or two where you could be somewhere else improving your stock, maybe that impacts the rest of your career. Like it could really have a huge impact if Nick Robertson goes another year where he's like a fringe guy or, you know, not in the NHL. Has he earned the right to say, yeah, I know maybe I'm factoring in here, but I got a battle for a spot like put me somewhere else where I have an opportunity, a more legitimate opportunity to be a contributor at the NHL level. I mean, he, I mean, he literally has the right. Has he earned it? I think for most people, no, I don't think he's done enough. And I don't, I don't disagree with that school of thought, but I also think that when you listen to everything that everyone involved with building this team now has been telling you that Nick Robertson is not necessarily the guy they're necessarily looking for. Like if there was a Nick Robertson sitting out there in free agency and they could just set him for like a million bucks, I don't think they'd do it because that's not the type of guy they want to. I'm just looking at it here on on your beloved Puckpedia, which I'm still learning to get used to. He's set to become an unrestricted free agent in 2029. That's when he'd have say over his, his destiny. And like I understand that everybody has to go through this, but I also think that when you're a guy who has shown some hint of ability, he isn't shown that he is a guaranteed bonafide top six NHL player far from it, or the least wouldn't be in this position with him. They'd have found a way to get him under contract and they'd have them there. But I also can understand a guy saying, look, I'm clearly not the right fit for this org. Move me to someplace where I can be that fit. And I also understand the player saying, Hey, this is also me telling anybody in the league. Like you want to give me like a one four, no comp offer sheet. I'd probably gladly sign that right now or one two or whatever you think a fair number is now. From a least perspective, tough, like we have problems. They're looking at it saying we have problems up front. We have holes to fill at the very least. We have some question marks that Nick Robertson may very well be able to fill, even if he's not the guy, we would want filling that spot given our druthers. So I completely understand how both sides kind of ended up at this spot. It just seems very quite frankly natural. And again, this is where this is a leaf thing, like not to say that we would never have heard about this. If he was a Senator or a jet or whatever they're calling a Utah this year, okay, a Utah, okay, a Utah if you, if you will, Nick Robertson's young. So we can give him that title. Yeah. We, this would be a complete non-story. Be like, yeah, he's going to hold out and he's not going to come to camp except he's going to come to camp. Like, let's be honest, I don't, I can't see a world where he just completely sits out waiting because I don't think there's that much leverage from other teams trying to die and again. And I completely understand how kind of all sides have been, have ended up at this spot, honestly. Yeah. I mean, there is a recent comparable to Rasmus Sandeen in 22, didn't show up for the start of training camp and then they suffered a bunch of injuries on the blue line and eventually just. Oh, yeah. Sam, man. Yeah. He signed a two year deal. And eventually though, he was traded out of Toronto. I, okay. So for what ended up being Easton Cowell. Good trade. Yes. What a great. I love the Rasmus Sandeen of it all because they signed him into a five year extension. How long this is? We went to hitters and we just did the like hitters and pitchers comp. It's like there is something about forwards and defencemen. Okay. He can stay upright. He didn't eat him to log 20 minutes. Sure. Very rarely hear that said about some forward of like, ah, could he log 20 minutes? But hopefully not. It is generally speaking the way it goes, right? So you're beloved Brad for living who you've already said is doing a spectacular bang up job. I think that's a little overstating what I've said, but I've enjoyed the living experience and I haven't not. Yeah. But I am going to say that as a negotiator, and really stuck in his feet to the fire. Okay. So he gave William Neelander all the things. Yes. Okay. And he granted that was a tough spot as well. Right. Like he had to get the Matthews extension done and then next down the pecking order. I like how nobody, I genuinely enjoy how no one can criticise or give credit to Brad for living for the Austin Matthews. No, because it's like, it's a check mark. Can you? Yeah. No, no, no, I agree. That's, and it's the right take to have. But in a world of referendums, especially in this market on contracts, for the guy that matters the most, we just look at it as a, that is a like a zero or one that is a binary proposition under contract. Good. It's just, it is funny that we spend so much time trying to break down and squabble over every set with these things. But when it comes to him and rightfully so, we all just say, yep. Good job. Yes. The contract is more than a year. Good. Yeah. Yeah. It's not quite the NBA where it's like, there's literally a parameter for a max contract. But it's, hey, it's a salary cap sport. We know what the best players get paid. He's obviously one of the best players. He's up. If he wants to be a maple leaf, you figure it out. Yeah. Whatever it takes. So he did that. And then next was William Neelander. In time, we were like, oh man, a nine per or something around that, like a 10. And it didn't get done. It got up to 11 and a half because he let him have this incredible start to the season and then didn't want to walk him all the way to free agency and okay. And then there was the Christian of it all as well who, you know, life and death to play 50 games. We know he's going to get hurt. He's aged it as well and yeah, gave him the four year deal, which seemed like a lot for a guy. Bradcher living 34, Bradcher living probably told them he was going to do that in his job interview. Maybe, maybe, but again, like hasn't exactly hold held anybody's feet to the fire. I don't know. Maybe you consider Max Domie on the four year deal at three seven five. I think that is the, it's funny. That's another one that again, this is, it's just the way. The circumstances play out with these things that I don't know that we, and I don't know that it's fair, but I don't know that we give true living much credit for it because we look at that as like, well, the Leafs signed Max Domie. He wanted to be a leaf and that was, that was a kind of part and parcel of the way this off season was going to go. If he's done a good job negotiating and I don't know the answer to this question yet, but it's on two contracts and it's about value buys and buying lowish on guys and it's what is the milk man, Simone Benoit and what is Bobby McMahon? If those guys that I think it's one three for McMahon, and I think maybe one seven or if not one five or something like that for Benoit, if those guys are cogs of your team for the three years that they're under contract there, that's where he's done a good job. But even that was not holding those guys feet to the fire. They're like, oh, we can have NHL jobs. Sounds good. Well, and again, it's like that was playoff insurance, right? Yeah. Because if the Leafs win even around Bobby and Bobby McMahon scores two goals, he's getting four instead he didn't appear in it. That's right. It's fine. Fine. I think. I think. Yeah. And this is coming off the like boy, nobody will do a worst job of holding people's feet to the fire than Kyle Dubas. Yeah. He was like, don't careful of the fire over there. Yeah, both of them are like, God, watch your feet. God, man, put on some steel toe boots. But with that fire over there, but with that context, is it important that Brad for living isn't just acquiescing to Nick Robertson, who it must be said, different scenario has very little leverage other than withholding his services to which the Maple Leafs would be like, okay, like, okay, you're just, you think we're hurting your career? Yeah. How about you voluntarily not playing hockey games is hurting your career. But is it important for Brad for living to at least show the hockey world a little bit that that he's, he's, you know, he's not a pushover here. If you are going to, and like, again, I don't know that it's capitulating to give Nick Robertson like a one year one million dollar deal. Is that, is that capitulating? Is that giving into Nick Robertson? I think some people would see it as such. I think the bigger way of giving in is just trading him away for some middling asset. You know, you're like fourth round pick or something like that. You don't want it. You don't want to do that. I think that would be giving in an acquiescent to the player. Yeah. I think the guys like camps have a way of sorting these things out. You mentioned the Sandeen comparable. Guess what? Someone's going to get dinged up. Guess what? Some PTO? Not going to look the part. Guess what? Ryan Reeves are going to have all those conversations again about where he fits in in this forward group. I ultimately think that there's going to be enough opportunity there because I think that that's just as much what this is about is it's not if the GM of the Leafs was still Kyle Dubas and God, like how much would be different. I don't think Nick Robertson's doing this because I think he thinks there's a viable path to him getting in his mind's eye a fair shake to make the roster. Now how much of a fair shake does he deserve? That's a fair debate to have. But I also think it's totally fair to say that, yeah, look at Craig Barubay and Brad's true living. Does Nick Robertson seem like a guy they're dying to have on their third line? Probably not. You're probably not. I mean, Brad's were living did say there's plenty of opportunity for him here and we do hear the rumblings that they look at like they're kind of desperate for yeah, man. Guys, I can play on the left side. Somebody eats a minute's up front. Yeah. So I don't know if they even need an injury to be in that desperation spot where they need somebody to compete and somebody that like playing 82 games, even in limited minutes in a third line role, like I wouldn't put it past Nick Robertson to score 20 goals for this. Well, and I think this, I think this has to be a factor as well and this works against Robertson is this the way it's going to go. If they are true and we have no idea, but if they're actually going to split things up and fan out the big four forwards across three lines, that bodes very well for Nick Robertson, right? Like if it's old school Leafs and it's Marner and Matthews and Kneelander and Tavares or vice versa. And then you got a Max Domi third line and I can understand the world where okay, like maybe Robertson and him click, but probably causes you more problems than you'd want. But if your third line is, I don't know, Max Domi, William Kneelander and Nick Robertson, it's a little different, right? You have a pure dish or in the middle, you have two shooters on either side. And I think that's the thing that has to play into this. And that's the part where I will say like, you know, it's not like he has a slouch of an agent. It's Pat Prasan, but it does feel like Robertson's getting some bad advice here. I will say, I understand the idea of him wanting, wanting a reset and this being the chance he thinks to kind of get it and make him move somewhere else and he's a year younger than if this happens after this upcoming see, I get it. But I do think you're right. Like there is opportunity here if he proves it. And I think this can't go without saying all the stuff you want him to do other than shoot the puck in the net, there are still flaws, there's still growth to be had there. There's also been massive strides made in those parts of his game as well. Yeah, I see this one playing out the same way as same name where I remember having the same conversation about like, what kind of advice is he getting here because of the lack of leverage and because of the opportunity for himself to prove himself and guess what happened? Like the end of September. I think before even the first preseason game, he put pen to paper on a two year deal and he wanted to be paid. Like he saw, I think Lillegrine was the first guy to sign his contract as a restricted free agent. And he's like, but I'm better than him and like shut up sign, like kind of same. Yeah. He eventually did. And guess what? He played his way into being a part of a trade to a team where he could have a more elevated role and then got his five year extension. Yep. That's the way this is going to play out. I think. And also, I remember a raspous ending it felt like had more potential to be a more key cog of the Toronto Maple. So it was a more relevant player than Nick Robertson, frankly. Yep. Despite the history we have with Nick Robertson, there's no ill will by the fan base. Like once he showed up, once he signed the deal, like it was, yeah, there was no grumblings when he was announced the first game of the season. Yeah. I think that's where I would Nick Robertson, despite the fact that, yeah, this is, it's a little ugly right now. And yeah, okay, I guess you could see a world where fans are like, why exactly do you not want to participate here? I don't think there would be an issue with him reversing course. And then all of a sudden, it's like, you know what, I still stick by my sentiment and feel like I have an opportunity to be a more significant contributor at the NHL level. But I understand the situation I'm in. And I'm going to do my best with the Toronto Maple Leafs and everybody welcoming him back with open arms. Yeah. I would think that you'll have to check in with your co-host for the next little bit. He's been, he's been leading the charge of who the hell does this guy think he is? Yeah. So you have to check him with Sam. And there will be a set, there'll be like a segment of the, of the lead fan base that feels that way. But I think by and large, it's not going to be an issue if he just says, yeah, oh, you know, everything has said, forget it. Yeah. And here's the other thing that goes without saying, but must be said at the same time, shoot the back of the net and no one will care, like even, even the most hardened or, because guess what? The more the better you perform, the more it looks like you had a like to stay up on. Yeah. Well, and more, and the more it proved, that's the thing. He performs, everybody wins. The Leafs say, look, this is why one hold on to you. We knew it was in there. We knew all along, buddy. We never doubted you. Who said we doubted you? Certainly not us. Certainly not you. From Robertson's perspective, it's like he gets to show everybody that, yeah, he does have a leg to stand on. It's kind of perfect here. And again, just another kind of piece of the puzzle here. What's the power play look like? We go into units or not? Because if it's going to be two units, shooter, could I interest you in a shooter on a secondary power play unit? Could I? Well, I mean, that's, I was going to ask like, where did it go wrong for the Leafs and Nick Robertson? I mean, so much, you kept saying like the stand on is like the broken leg of the multitude of different injuries. Tons of injuries. That feels like the number one reason why we've gotten to this place with the player in the organization. I mean, like, maybe he deserved, what was the year where he deserved to be on the opening day roster? And then he showed up in game six and had two goals against the stars and his brother and then went a million games without a goal. But yeah, that was the one season where you're like, oh, okay, maybe you did him a little dirty there because he was so good in the preseason. Yeah, but you didn't do him dirty because this is how it works in sports. If you can pass a guy through waivers or sorry, if you don't have to pass a guy through waivers or other teams aren't able to get their paws on him. This is how it works. Was he done a little dirty? Sure. If he was in another situation where they didn't have four bonafide superstars, absolutely locked in the top six forever, then would this have played out differently? Yeah, but guess what? That's also a pretty good situation to be in. And again, we keep going to the Sandine comp of it all. And hey, I'm sure Rasmus and Dean loves it every two weeks with the auto deposit hits and he has his five year $23 million contract. He's a capital. They're the Leafs. And I don't even say that is like worth the Leafs, but just look where the two teams are in there. Capital's made the playoffs. Okay. Remember, I mean, that was the first round of the Stanley Cup playoffs is awesome. Except for that. Yeah, that series was abominable. It actually is remarkable that every bad team that makes playoffs somehow seems to find a way to put up a fight with the exception of them in the last like 10 years. And the lightning when they lost to Columbus, they somehow they put up no fight that year either. That might have had something to do with like Victor had been not being held. Yeah, yeah. We only do that for the Leafs rather teams, you got to figure it out. Find a way, baby. Just win. All right. When we come back, what was she had his back, at least, you know, taking ground balls before a baseball game with the Toronto Blue Jays, it's going to start a rehab assignment soon and be back with the big club, you would think in September at some point is it just me using bad vibes. The all-time Toronto bad vibes, guys, coming up next as the fan morning show continues bed and a sprint gunning Sports at 590 the fan.
