Chasing Giants with Don Higgins
Episode 238 - 2024 Buck Forecast - MORE GIANTS SHOT THIS YEAR
In this episode, Don Higgins discusses his buck forecast for the year based on his trail camera observations across three different states. He notes that the antler growth this year has been fantastic, likely due to the mild winter and early spring. He predicts that there will be some giants killed, with bucks over 200 inches and even over 220 inches being harvested. However, he also highlights the issue of herd management and the lack of older age class bucks in the population. Don emphasizes the importance of being good stewards of the resource and managing the deer population to prevent crop damage and maintain good relationships with neighbors. In this conversation, Don and Terry discuss various topics related to deer hunting. They talk about the mindset of hunters who consistently shoot young bucks instead of waiting for a mature buck. They also discuss the use of cell cameras and how changing the upload frequency can affect deer behavior. The conversation touches on the positive changes that can occur when following a consulting plan for deer management. They also discuss the challenges of planting food plots and the importance of timing and weather conditions. The conversation concludes with a discussion on using deer decoys and how often to hunt a mature buck from the same stand.
- Duration:
- 1h 0m
- Broadcast on:
- 08 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
Chasing Giants with Don Higgins and Terry Pier. Brought to you by Osseo Camo, nature's most lethal camel flies. Follow along as Don and Terry discussed the techniques, strategies, and dedication needed to harvest one of God's most amazing creations. World Class White Tails. - Well, welcome everyone to this week's Chasing Giants episode, Don Higgins, I'm Terry Pier. This episode is going to drop on September 8th, 2024. Don, it's already been the Kentucky opener. You're getting close to the Illinois opener. We have a great, this is probably the most anticipated show of the year because you have now checked most of your cameras. You've moved to your false shift and you are ready to do your big buck forecast for the year. So, for the people who have just started listening to our show, this is where you outline your prediction of what the buck harvest and what people are going to see based on your running trail cameras across three different states. So, that's gonna be a little bit later in the show. I wanna circle back and talk about last week. You know, I don't think we created controversy by any means, but we created a lot of dialogue and I think you called your shot. You said that there was gonna be a lot of people that maybe agreed with you and a lot of people that said we were flat out crazy for what you said on the show, but it created a lot of people sending you messages, didn't it? - Yeah, when I said I don't get near the pictures on cell cams that I do non-cell cams and that I wondered if bucks could detect those. It's something that I've heard for years, actually, from others, it's something that-- - Is it something you just made up? This is something you've heard other people say too. - And I'd made the observation in years past, I just had never expressed it like I did on the last podcast and you know, the thing of it is, is our listeners are so in tune with what they're doing that I had multiple people respond privately through email or whatever that have actually done tests where they've been getting good pictures with a non-cell cams, so they moved the cell cam in to better monitor the situation and boom, all of a sudden they're not getting pictures of the bucks they were getting regular or vice versa. You know, they had a cell cam and it, for whatever reason, it wasn't getting too many pictures, so they moved it, but they liked the spot, so they replaced it with a non-cell cam and they go back and check it and boom, there's more pictures on that non-cell than the cell camera ever picked up and you know, ironically from my end, you know, I had said last week, I got 12 cell cams out and I had to get a picture of a good buck on the cell cam. Well, yesterday, guess what happens? I get a good buck on the cell cam, so it's not 100% and I think that there's too many people out there, again, we're just talking in generalities, we're talking deer hunting, there's no absolutes. So there's not gonna be, it's like, you know, Bronson Strickman always says, you never say never, you never say always, you know, we can play the odds, but there's gonna be deer do things that other deer rarely do and vice versa, so we gotta get away from thinking and absolutes. - You know, I think back to college and grad school, when we were doing a lot of statistical analysis and I talk about bell curves a lot, and you know, you got these, you got a bell curve, well, it still means there's data points where that bell curve comes down, there's still data points on each side, but when you think about a bell curve and mature bucks in the middle, we have to, I think that our mind needs to instead of saying absolutes, we have to shrink to where everything that we do has to eliminate every variable to where we don't take chances with these critters because they just don't take the pressure, the intrusion. Yeah, is there a mature buck that's gonna go down wind of you and still come out? Occasionally, maybe, yeah, it'll happen. You know, we get those guys that say it happened in 1987 and they're able to shake the biggest buck of their life, so they're gonna continue to hunt the wrong wind, but you know, no absolutes, no always and no never. Enhancing our opportunities is what it's about. We got somebody submitted a question that I think was an extension of that topic, and by no means, I think are either one of us gonna completely eliminate cell cameras. I'm still gonna use them, especially in Kentucky where I have feed mineral, I'm still gonna use them by all means. I think that there's enough that the deer are gonna overcome whatever it might or might not be there, but in being out of state, I think it's, I don't think it's gonna deter me, but yeah, with you being on your home farm, using that as a strategy, something we can pay attention to as you continue to evolve what you wanna do with your property to the next level, right? - Yeah, and the cell cams, for me, they're as much about monitoring the property for trespassers, for dogs, for things like that as they are the deer. I'm definitely not gonna put a cell camera in a place where, you know, like in the bedding cover where I expect a mature buck to be bedding, the last thing I wanna do is do anything to run him off from such a location, but places where trespassers might access my property or likely to access my property or dogs are likely to come onto the property. When that happens, I wanna know it instantly and I wanna be able to address it immediately. So I will continue to use cell cameras. - I don't wanna go down a rabbit hole with this, but I also think it's worth mentioning because we have a lot of new listeners. I think there's a lot of people based on the analytics. So we picked up a lot of new listeners over the last nine months here in 2024. You do not use cell cameras like most people do. I think a lot of people that use cell cameras are trying to get the most recent information to go react to a deer. So they put out this trail camera and say, "Oh, a deer's there, I'm gonna go hunt them." And that works for some people, but you've been very vocal about that's not how you're building a yearly history and pattern with trail camera data so that you're ahead of what that buck's going to do. So where you're putting these cameras and building that knowledge of it, all you want and you've said it a million times, all you need to do is know that a buck is there. Once you know he's there and alive, that's the data point that you're looking for. From there, you already have the past history that you're putting together. - Right, yeah, years of history of watching the same buck grow up and become a giant. It is critical to killing that buck when he finally becomes a target animal. And so I don't need to go in and check my cameras every week or anything like that. I can have my, and I don't need to use my cameras to tell me where to sit. I know where to hunt on a property. All I need to know is the buck that I wanna kill is using that property in that timeframe. And that's how I'm using those cameras. I understand other people use them differently, but that's how I do it. - And the guys that get permission to go hunt a brand new property that they're gonna hunt this year, their strategy has to be completely different. You know, they're scouting it for the first year, gonna do a hanging hunt, or maybe they got permission to hunt an out-of-state place that they were able to go put a camera on in August and they're gonna go hunt September 9th or October 1st. So this is your home farm where you're building histories year after year after year. Once you know what buck is on your farm, you have the habitat designed to where, if he's there, you're gonna be able to kill him. - Yeah, especially on my home farm and even other permission properties. You know, I've got, I can go on to a farm and with a little bit of maybe a year of experience on that farm, I can know from that point forward where I need to be to kill a particular buck at a particular time of year with a particular wind direction. And you know, that doesn't mean I can go to a particular farm and no matter which way the wind's blowing, I can go in there and kill a deer. I've got small properties where I know I might only have one wind that I can hunt that farm and have a realistic chance of killing a buck that's there. But you know, that's something that has come to me over decades really, but the cameras are really important to let me know what is there on the farm. So, you know, I can put them in an out of the way spot where it's not gonna impact, you know, the quality of a stand location or the deer traffic past a stand location. Just let me know what's there and I'll know where to go kill that deer. - So it was before we take the Aussie outbreak, I was talking to a guy on social media this week that listened to last week's podcast and he said that I referenced Al Foster's slice of the pie diagram again and he wanted to know if there was a North American whitetail article or somewhere where he could see visual of that. And I told him I would ask you that, but my guess is I have Al gave me a copy of all of his articles and I don't think it's in there. There might be an article about wind if I remember, right? But I think we need to talk to Derek and the guys at the Ship Shawanna Show and that might be a little breakout discussion that we might need to get Al to do in Ship Shawanna this coming year for the Midwest Sportsman's Classic and make Al go to work for a little 20 minute seminar on wind direction, slice of the pie. What do you think? - Well, the challenge there will be getting Al to agree to it. (laughing) Maybe if I get up there with him and him and I have a discussion, it'll be a whole lot better and I can put together a slide presentation to go along with it. But yeah, Al saved me at least a decade on the learning curve when I met him when I was about 18, 19 years old. He's writing for North American whitetail back in the day and he literally, I've told this story before before our new listeners, you know, I met him, I was a kid, 18, 19, somewhere in there and literally from, and I met him in the summer at a job I was working and he worked the same place and the season before I met Al to the first season after I met Al, I literally tripled my buck sightings from a stand in one season and that was because of my conversations with Al over that off season. So, you know, if he can save me at least a decade on the learning curve, I think it would be a good presentation and draw a pretty good crowd. If Derek wants to do that at the ships you want to show. - Well, I think that's just part of what we're going to try to enhance from last year. You know, last year at the Midwest Sportsman's Classic, FAE came in and really encouraged us to try to build off this momentum and the vendors have stepped up. Derek showed me that, you know, boost space is going fast. It's almost like the old school hunting shows where it's a lot of hunting-related boosts instead of non-hunting stuff. All of these, all these aisles are going to be jam packed with hunting stuff, but more importantly, building off of this legends round table with the Wenzel brothers and Bobby Worthington and you and Al and Joe trying to have other breakouts and other activities through that weekend that we want to make it an event and connect, especially the younger generation, my age. I'm not young anymore, but my age and younger never really had a true connection with Bobby and the Wenzel brothers like your generation did. So I'm really looking forward to this. These guys are working so hard to put this trade show together. So we're going to keep trying to bring you updates as we go and trying to talk Al Foster if he's listening into getting up on stage a little bit more and talking. I don't know, we'll have to see. - We'll drag you up there one way or another. - All right, well, the man, Mr. Joe Miles, I saw a picture of him in a tree stand this morning. I don't know where he's at, but we got opening day of Kentucky was yesterday for the people listening on Sunday the 8th. The seventh was opening day of Kentucky. We got two film crews out. I hope we already have a deer on the ground. We got a buddy of ours that is on an absolute giant and hopefully can close the deal on that and we'll be able to bring you that with the new chasing giant TV show that's coming. So more information on that, but let's take a quick break. Listen to the folks from ASEO and we'll be right back with the 2024 Buck forecast. - ASEO gear has perfected one of the most innovative camo patterns on the market. The unique camo pattern designed to mimic the feather patterns of one of North America's greatest predators, the great horn owl. Combined with intuitive features, superior comfort and ultra high quality fabrics give bow hunters the ultimate advantage. ASEO has outfitted over 10,000 bow hunters across the country with over 1,000 five store reviews. Visit asiogear.com to check it out for yourself. Use code chasing giants for 15% off. - Okay, Don, like I said at the beginning, you think based on the feedback from others, this is probably the most anticipated show of the year because you're running so many cameras spread out across so many counties and now I believe what, three states? - Three states, yeah, I counted up, I've got cameras on 24 properties in three states. Only one property in Iowa, one property in, or two properties in Ohio, the rest of those properties are in Illinois. I'm around my home and it's, we've been talking about this basically all summer, Terry, the antler growing season that we've had and it's been fantastic. Probably the best one that I can ever remember and it goes back to the mild winter. It started the last winter being some mild and then the early spring got the bucks off to an early start. And one question we had right out of the gate where was the bucks are getting an early start? Are they gonna wrap up that antler growth earlier? Well, they continue growing for an extra period of time and shed velvet as normal. Well, the interesting thing is that there were plenty of bucks that I did not personally get pictures of but people sent me pictures of bucks that were shedding earlier than I have ever seen. So the earliest I personally ever seen a buckshed here in Illinois was August 29th and that one buck that I seen shed August 29th, probably 20 years ago. And this year I did have another buck on camera on August 29th that had shed his velvet but I was getting people in basically mid-August sending me pictures of bucks that had shed way earlier than I'd ever seen before. Ever had pictures sent to me from others before. So one thing I wanna stress is that we've always heard that weather affects antler growth and that has never become more evident to me in the past two seasons because a year ago was terrible antler growth. 2023 was probably one of the worst years outside of 2012 when we had the real bad drought but last year in 23, every buck that I was watching that was three and a half and older that I had pictures of the previous season, every single one of them either stayed the same or lost inches. There wasn't a one that put on antler growth. This year it was just the opposite. This year every single buck that I was watching from the previous season, every one of them added inches. It didn't matter what his age was, they all added inches, some a lot more than others but they all added inches. So what's that mean for 24? Well, obviously there's gonna be some giants killed because those bucks that survived from last season and lived to this year, most of them added inches. Like I've never seen before, there's gonna be some absolute giants killed, no doubt about it. And I'm talking well over 200 inches. I've seen pictures of several of them in velvet this summer that people have shared with me discreetly so I can't share any more than that but I've seen them in multiple states. The thing that I think we gotta be aware of is that, you know, I've been running these cameras for a long time, I mean, I've been deer hunting for almost 50 years now. And the deer herd, at least in my home state of Illinois, is nothing like it was in the past. There is still a lot of miles between 170 inch deer. It's not like all of a sudden magic happened this year and now everybody's gonna be shooting 170 inch deer. That's not the case, there's a lot of miles between them. That's an issue that we cannot change overnight with one good antler growing season. That's a herd management issue. We don't have the older age class box in the numbers that we used to. And it doesn't matter, you know, every buck is not gonna be a giant just because he hits five years old or six years old. The genetics comes into play and there's just not enough of those older age class box for us to have the kind of season that I think some people are expecting. Yeah, we've got better antler growth than we've had for a number of years, but there is still a lot of miles, and I'm telling you a lot of miles between 170 inch deer. Even my farm in Iowa, where I typically get some really good velvet pictures, this year that farm is not as good as what it has been in the past as far as the caliber of bucks there. Now, that could be due to crop rotation. You know, my camera locations are the same as they've been in past years, but the crop rotation is different. I do expect to see some nice bucks on camera on that farm as we get into the fall, but so far, not a single one. I could go down on a couple of different rabbit trails with this topic, but you know, why is it that the states are managing for younger, or they're not managing for older age class bucks? And I think it comes down to the CWD hysteria. You know, the CWD, I don't wanna call them critics, I don't know what the people that totally buy in to the CWD propaganda will tell you that the older age class deer are more likely to test positive for CWD, and there's a real effort to cut back not only the numbers of the deer herd, but also the age structure of the deer herd. They don't want those older animals because they believe that those older animals are more likely to have CWD and spread it. So the state is never gonna tell you that, but just watching, you know, with the limited knowledge that I have, I've gotta believe that the CWD is playing a major role in the management of our deer herds, and that is why there is no effort made. I don't know of any state here in the Midwest that's making any effort whatsoever to have older age class animals, and they should. I mean, there are states, you could go right down the list. You know, Kansas, Iowa, even Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, that belt right through there, any of those states, if they just tried to manage for some older age class bucks, they could blow away any other state. You could just take your pick, even Missouri, which is probably at the bottom of that list today, if they actually started managing for trophy deer for older age class deer, they would blow away even Iowa. Nobody, no state is managing for them. So to take this back into the buck forecast, yeah, there's gonna be some giants killed, but there's not gonna be just an influx of 170 inch plus deer where, you know, everybody knows multiple buddies that killed 170 inch deer, that they're just not there in the numbers. They're out there, but just not in the numbers that we experienced maybe 15, 20 years ago. So if I had to summarize that with the deer herd that we have, the antler score of that deer herd is probably going to be at the max of what it could have been based on the conditions because last year they were probably on the bottom side. You know, you look again at a statistical analysis, you have a deer herd, whatever it is, with so many, three year olds, so many, four year olds, so many, five years, each of those were probably closer to their glass ceiling or genetic potential based on the growing year that they could be. But you're not changing where that herd herd is as far as. - Right, so like a year ago, if we would have taken every buck five and a half and older and averaged his antler score across the Midwest, you know, we might've came up with an average antler score of 150 inches, say. I'm just sowing that number out for discussion. This year, if you would take an average of every buck that's five and a half and older, instead of 150 inches, it's probably closer to 170 inches. It was actually that much difference in one year to the next. The key here is that there's just not as many of those animals as there used to be. So yeah, there's going to be some giants killed. There's going to be some giants killed every year. Even last year with a poor antler growing season, there were some giants killed, that's never going to change. But we got to recognize that the poor management by the states of our deer herd in terms of age structure is going to limit the number of older big antler bucks than what we've become used to. Those of us who have been hunting 25 years or more. - And every year that the regulations continue to be like they are, the number is going to keep compressing because the number of two and three year olds are going to keep getting higher for harvest account. And this idea that an older age class buck has higher likelihood to test positive for CWD being a neurological disease. That's like saying that a 90 year old has a better chance of testing positive for Alzheimer's than a 30 year old. It's absolutely ridiculous, of course they do. - Yeah, that's a rabbit hole. We could go down and probably offend a lot of people, but obviously I don't buy into the CWD height. But the other observation from this summer with my trail cameras and observation in the field, especially right here at my house, is I think that deer population is in fantastic shape. In fact, I have never been one to shoot a bunch of those. I think in the most that I've ever shot on this farm in one year is four does this year, and I haven't done that. That was before the 2012 EHD disaster. This year, I want to target 10, 12, 15 does on my farm. - Oh wow. - I just need to shoot a bunch of them. They are literally just destroying crops and food plots. And we got to, it'd be a whole lot easier for me to get it under control this year than to wait another year or two, or allow mother nature to take care of it with an EHD outbreak and wipe out 90% of them. So I'm going to be all over that. I'm probably even going to hunt the gun season this year for the first time ever, or well, first time in many decades, and I'm only going to be targeting those. I'm not going to be out there with a gun trying to shoot a target buck. I'm going to be sitting it out of the way places trying to shoot those. - Did that spike from last year that much or have you seen it creep up over the years? - Well, I think it's been a slow increase, but I think the mild one, I've seen more triplet fawns this year than I can ever remember seeing. There's just a fantastic fawn crop, and I think that goes back to the weather as well. And we just can't allow that many deer to carry on and carry over into next year, or this problem is going to be compound. At least here I'm on my property. You know, I can't speak for the rest of the Midwest, but here the deer population is as high as I've ever seen it and the crop damage is worse than I've ever seen it. And I got to get it under control 'cause if I don't, my neighbors are going to start having a fit. So I'd be really interested. - For me being a statistics guy, I'd be really interested. For those of you who are watching on YouTube, I'd really like you just to make a quick comment down below right now. If your deer heard, if you think that it's bigger, if you've seen that same increase that Don has over the last year or two, and especially the does, if you think the number of does. I know we were talking to, we had breakfast. You came over and met Patrick Simpson and I, and Brandon Epperson on Monday. We were up working on the farms. And what did Patrick say? He saw 26 deer in the alfalfa. Feel behind his house last the other night. So I know he was talking about how many deer is absolutely destroying his alfalfa right now. - Yeah, and you know, I just made a post on social media this morning about being good stewards. I mean, as hunters, we're not just deer killers. We're in charge of managing this natural resource. And each of us plays a part in that. There's no one of us that's managing a huge chunk of the deer herd, but we each have a little part to play in that. And part of our responsibility as ethical hunters is to manage the resource and leave it better than we found it. And if we find it like it is today where it's over populated, it's causing crop damage and costing our neighbors money, it's time to address it. And I want to not only be a good steward of the resource, but I also want to be a good neighbor to my neighbors. And the last thing I want is some kind of issue with them because my property is a sanctuary to a thousand deer that are going across the countryside and wiping out their crops. So I fully intend to address that this fall. - All right. Well, I'm going to put you on the spot. And I'm going to make you think about one closing statement for the Big Buck forecast of 2024. It's a summary, one statement that at the end of the season, we're going to look back on this and say, Uncle Don called it or he was a little bit off or he was completely off his rocker, but I'm going to give you a chance just to think about that and that one closing thought, our friends at Brent and firearms gave us this cool little commercial. And I told them that I would play it just because I thought it was so awesome. So I'm going to play that right now. Let's you think about this, collect your thoughts and then come back and then we'll get some questions and say stay tuned, we'll be right back. - Elevate your hunt with Brenton USA's modern AR rifles where each feature is engineered with precision for the hunters advantage. Our exclusive Brenton Hunt spec three-prong approach offers a seamless blend of form and function, transforming the AR rifle into a masterpiece of hunting engineering. With features like marble coat camo and our patent pending receiver lock, every Brenton rifle is a beacon of innovation. They achieve unparalleled balance, durability and accuracy and even the most challenging conditions. Make every shot count with a rifle built on a legacy of hunting mastery. Head over to BrentonUSA.com to transform the way you hunt. - All right, after approximately 23 seconds of deliberation and thought, it does not take Don Higgins very long to step out on a limb and make a statement, it never has. What is your closing final thoughts of the buck forecast? - My, for the buck forecast, 2024, there's gonna be an unusual number of bucks over 200 inches killed and especially those really top end bucks, bucks over say 220 inches. There's gonna be a lot of those killed this year. - Yes, you wanna know what my thought is? - What's that? - We're going to have an annihilation of future up-and-comer giants as three-year-olds because those same three-year-olds that would normally be 135, 140 or pushing 150 and are gonna be bucks of lifetimes for a lot of hunters that in two more years, we're gonna have a shortage of really good five and six-year-olds. So I think-- - That makes total sense. - I think in 2026 and 2027, we are going to have a shortage of five and six-year-olds. So that's my prediction. I got a two-year prediction, not a this year prediction. - You know what I find fascinating and frustrating at the same time is trying to understand deer hunters because there's just an army of deer hunters out there and it doesn't apply to everyone, but there's an army of deer hunters out there that want to kill giant bucks, but yet they cannot take their finger off the trigger or the release or whatever it is or shooting when it comes to shooting a buck that's just one or maybe two years away from it. And they might already have a wall full of those kind of bucks at home, but yet they can't go one season without filling a buck tag to allow that buck of a lifetime to live one more year and grow that rack that represents that buck of a lifetime. So that's just fascinating to me as I hear these people and you know, they're right to shoot whatever they want. I'm not trying to push my beliefs on anyone else. They can absolutely shoot whatever they want, but when they've got a goal and they've already came one step from that goal numerous times, why can't they just back off and take that step to the next level? There's just an army of those deer hunters out there. I talk to them all the time. - So there will be elite level top in bucks killed and there'll also be a lot of really, really, really good three year olds that everybody claims is a five and six year old this year. I'm glad you said that. - DeerH.com people were there not a sponsor, but they put your money where your mouth is. Send those teeth in and we'll see how old that buck really is. How about that? All right, you ready to get to some questions? This first one coming up actually builds off of our cell camera discussion of last week, I believe. So let's get it up on the screen and we'll get going. - Yeah, this one comes from Matt Mickelson from Walsion, Ohio. It says, "Hi, Don and Terry with the recent topic of cell cameras being talked about on the podcast. This had been a concern of mine for the last few months as I had noticed the same thing. I get maybe a couple of good photos but nothing real close to the larger mature deer until I changed my upload to every three hours from instantly. Do you think maybe it's the connecting of the camera to the network? Also had a great time on Friday and Eden. Thank you for your time to speak with my boys as they were excited to tell their mom that you spoke to them. Well, Matt, it was good to see you again. I know I'd seen you and your one son at, I think it was a ship you wanna show a couple of years back. Maybe it was last winter, but anyway, good to see you and your sons again. You know, I don't know what it is and I don't even know for sure that there's anything to it but just from my observations and a lot of other people's observations, it just seems that getting a big mature box photo on a cell cam is either a lot tougher than it is with a non-cell cam or it's a one-time proposition. You get his picture there once and you never get him there again. I've had that happen with non-cell cameras as well. And you know, I go out of my way, you know, it was kind of funny, some of the comments that were posted under the last podcast on YouTube about, you know, basically there was pretty much telling me I don't know how to hang a camera and can't put it in the deer's face and this and that. I'm not, guys, I've been running trail cameras since they first came out. I didn't start last week. I'm trying to hide those cameras as much as anyone. I'm not putting it facing down the trail so a deer's looking into it as he's coming down the trail and I'm not putting it right at eye level to the deer. Whenever possible, I'm getting it up. I even carry a couple of screw-in steps and I've got a special family pack just for checking trail cameras. It's got batteries and things like that in it but I got a couple of screw-in steps so I can get up and I can put that camera about eight to 10 feet and angle it down and if I can put it amongst some branches instead of just on the side of a tree, I'm doing all that stuff. You bring up a great point. You're not the only one that asked me that after the last podcast, I had some private messages as well of guys saying that they took their cell cameras and went from instant send when the picture's taken to once or twice a day at periods where there's low probability of deer being around that camera and there might be something to it 'cause these guys have told me that that's made a world a difference. It could be when that camera's sending the picture. Maybe it's making some noise that's inaudible to us humans, kind of like a silent dog whistle. Maybe it's making a noise we can hear. I don't know what the answer is but it's a great suggestion. Anyone that's having trouble with not getting your good buck pictures on their cell cam, you may wanna change that setting to once or twice a day and I think don't you do that, Terry? - What's up? - I have your cell camera sending you pictures of like noon or something. - Yeah. - Well, it depends on the camera. There's some of them that if they're here in Kentucky and you do that when it's on feed and you try to do that, you'll be transferring 2,000 pictures at one time. It's not possible but it depends on the setting but we have them all different places. It's hilarious to see we got so hardcore of listeners to see the tests and the just trial and error stuff that people have done in all of these circumstances and not just this but man, it's just awesome to see how guys dive in and just try different things. Yeah, they send us, we'll mention a topic and they said, oh yeah, we tried this and this and this and it's we got some pretty in tuned, real dedicated. We use this marketing term all in at real world this year. We got a lot of all in listeners. I mean, they go full bore with everything. So it's kind of cool to have guys in the chasing giants family that are that dedicated. So we'll get the next question up here. - This one comes from Brandon Pearson from Motley, Minnesota. I says, hello Don, I've heard you talk about giving your consulting plan five years before claiming it doesn't work. Can you talk about some of the positive changes you have witnessed from year to year as the plan unfolds? We had West out this past April. Prior to West, we were doing about everything wrong. We considered hunting edges and minimizing human intrusion. Thanks for everything you guys do, God bless. Well, Brandon, every property and every consultant's different. I mean, I go on properties where if they will just follow the plan, it's going to be day and night difference the very first year. And then I go on other properties where that client is doing a lot of things right. And I might only tweak one or two things in their whole approach. And in that case, the change is going to be way more subtle. So there's just huge variance based on the client and the property. We have situations where we're basically having to help build the herd that takes a much longer time where other times we're just changing how they hunt it, which is a, you know, the deer already there. We're just changing maybe a stand placement or a funnel or an approach. There's a lot of different things that we have to do. You know, when we're doing habitat like bedding, you know, that just takes time to mature. So every situation is different on what that client needs from us, what in the longest is the herd development. If it's in an area, I mean, look at Wes with Higgins 2.0. He's had to basically build that age structure back in an area that all those deer were just historically annihilated. So he's having to build that age structure back from pretty much nothing. So he's getting to the point that that's happening. And I had to do that on my farm when I started. So I remember in the early days of working on his farm and, you know, I didn't see near the deer I see today, but I would sit there in my stand and I would think man, in five years, this place is gonna be really good. Next year I'd be in my stand and I'd think man, in five more years, this place is gonna be really good. 'Cause I was watching trees that I'd planted, you know, put size on them in different projects, taking shape and next year I'd sit there. Man, in five years it's gonna be, this place is gonna be good. It was always that five year mark. And one day I'm sitting out there and I'm thinking, man, this place is pretty good right now. And then just like, the change is slow sometimes. But then all of a sudden you recognize that, man, this place has come a long way from what it used to be. And, you know, again, they're all different, but I probably didn't answer your question the way you was expecting, but it's just the truth. - I think the biggest thing is if people take the intrusion part away, they will immediately see increased deer numbers. Whether the age structure and the antler sizes there, that's a different ball game. But you take the intrusion part about it, your deer numbers will change immediately. You should start seeing that first year. - You know, the frustrating thing for me as a consultant is I'll go to a property that I know could be ever as good as my property or even better. And just sometimes have a hard time getting the client to envision what I can see. I mean, I've done it enough and got enough decades of experience that I can pretty much envision what a property could become. And it's trying to get the vision in my head into the client's head so that he recognizes, yeah, I'm doing some things today that, you know, maybe is allowing me to shoot some deer, but if I would back off and change, and that's the hard part, when somebody's having success to a certain degree, to get them to totally back off from what brought them to that level of success and go a totally different direction to reach a much higher level of success. - Yeah, that's changes hard. What's the old thing, I'm okay with changes as long as I don't have to, is that what it is? - As long as somebody else is doing it. - Yeah. - This one comes from Ben Meyer from St. Charles, Missouri. It says, "Don and Terry, thanks for considering my question. "Enjoy your podcast, though I've been busy "and have gotten behind in listening. "I'm a very happy real world customer, "first time planting corn ever, and it was incredible. "I've never seen deer eat the leaves and stalks before "like they do this stuff. "It's awesome. "Gentoo beans, also doing great. "My question is, I have one acre "that is usually a fall food plot, "but it's currently in sunflowers. "Then I have two quarter acre plots that are sprayed "until ready to plant. "I'm waiting for rain, but it's just not coming. "I have rain coming Friday, but no rain to follow. "I'm scared that the plants will jump out of the ground "and then fail with no rain. "I like to put these plots into deadly dozen, "but I'm wondering, the later we get into August, "and even September, should my focus switch "to strictly harvest salad. "I've got plenty of corn and beans to feed the deer, "but I can't imagine not also having some greens. "I can broadcast, or I have an old grain drill. "Any advice you can give is much appreciated. "Our farm is in Mid-Missouri." Well Ben, there's nothing we can do about the weather. I'm sitting here right now with my fall plots looking absolutely terrible. I mean terrible. And I look at the forecast through mid-September, and I don't see a drop of rain on the 10-day forecast. Got me frustrated because if I could just get an inch or two of rain, my fall plots would explode. I know we're gonna get rain at some point. Don't know when, but the point you're making is the cereal grains in the harvest salad could be planted later in the year, and they don't need as much time as the brassicas that are also in the deadly dozen. I'd say if you've already got your seed bought, go ahead and plant what you've got. Don't wait and buy something else. Go ahead and plant it. But there's nothing we can do about the weather. It's frustrating, no last spring. I'm planning on having the best plots I've ever had on this farm. I've changed some of my management approach to farm for nutrients, as I call it. Trying to get the most nutrient-dense plants on my farm. Spend a lot of money on some soil additives that we're gonna cover in a new Chasing Giants, a mission whitetail series web show. So you wanna be sure and check that out. But what happened this year is my spring planting plots got browse pressure like never before, and my fall plots did not get the rain they needed. I'm really worried about having enough food here to get the deer herd through the winter. Luckily I talked to my neighbor, he's a big farmer, and he told me he's gonna be planting a lot of wheat, a winter wheat on his ground this fall. So those wheat fields are definitely gonna help me out and much welcome. So I'm gonna back to your question now. I would not change what you're gonna plant since you've already got it on the end. Just go ahead and plant it and hope for the best, which is exactly what I've done. - Yeah, I think I need to clarify something on, when we're going through late July and August, we're telling people to hold back, hold back, hold back, because the reason for that is if we get that rain and that plant germinates and matures too early, it hurts you in the late season. But we made a social media post yesterday on the real world site that it's go time, whether you got the rain or not, get that seed in the ground, whether there's rain in the forecast or not, because that pop up shower that's not on that forecast or not on that weather app might be all you need, and if you miss it, you might be screwed. So the reason we say wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, is we don't want to go too early and have the plants mature, but once we get to a certain point, you plant it and it just make the best out of it. So if you don't have it in by now, do what Don and I did, we just, we put it in and let her go. Everything that I have right now, except for cover crop is in the ground. We'll plant cover crop here after the final crops are out, but you know, it's just, it's a matter of waiting and taking the punches by mother nature. That's, that's all it is. There's nothing we can do about it. Every year comes with its own unique challenges. And you think you see that all and then boom, here comes something else. But you know, we sit here and we've talked all summer about how this was the best antler growing season because of all of this food. And here we are talking about how we're worried about having enough food to get through the winter. And if we end up with a catastrophic horrible winter and food shortage, next year could come into one of the worst growing seasons next year. And you know, it's just stacking, stacking variables from year after year season into season. But you know, we, we compound a really, really hard winter with a food shortage from dislike of rain this fall. We could be a little bit hurtin'. So yeah, you know, we talked about it earlier. I did the guys that shoot bucks a year away from being their dream buck. And yet this year as manager, if we need to consider that if we have a poor antler growing season next year, bucks could actually lose inches from what they are this year, the older age class bucks. You know, a two-year-old going to be a three-year-old, he's always gonna gain inches or almost always. And most of the time a three becoming a four-year-old is gonna gain some inches. But once they've reached maturity, the weather plays a much bigger factor in what they do from year to year. - Yeah, a four-year-old may never get bigger than he is this year, depending on what this weather is. So all right, decisions, decisions, right? - Well, there's no exact science. Can we say there's no absolutes? The next question comes from Dale Hoover from Roaring Spring, Pennsylvania. It says, "Don and Terry, I don't recall you talking about ever using a deer decoy as a means of bringing a buck in for a closer shot opportunity. Have you ever tried it or is that something that's not in your toolbox? Thanks for thinking of others with Lester's feet. God richly bless you both. I'm a die-hard fixed blade man. Much thanks to DA Hoover." - Well, Dale, I did use a decoy a few times. I actually shot one young buck with a decoy way back in the day. My oldest daughter, Andrea, was actually with me on that hunt. Kurt and I were on the ground in a ground blind and had a decoy out and I was hunting with a recurve. So having my daughter, you know, only had a two buck limit at that time as it does today. So having her with me sitting on the ground with a recurve, this year and a half old buck comes charging into the decoy we had to sit out there in front of us and I shot that deer with my recurve. Not a big deal at all. So that is the only deer I ever shot over a decoy. I've literally seen the decoy spook way more bucks here in Illinois where I'm at than had ever attracted. In fact, that little buck that I shot with the recurve was the only buck that I seen really coming into that decoy like he wanted something to do with it. Those especially seem really suspicious of decoys. They'll stomp and blow, in my opinion. And I know out in Kansas decoys can become very effective but those deer out there are using their eyes a lot more in that open prairie country than they do here in where I'm at in Illinois and that part of the Midwest. So I'll tell you that I found that that decoy will spook way, way more deer than it'll ever attract. Probably 10 times more deer will be spooked by that decoy than attracted. And the second thing is I carry enough gear to the woods. The last thing I need is a full bodied deer decoy under one arm. So I will never use a decoy again probably. I mean, I just cannot see a situation where I would ever use a decoy at you. - Well, thank you for your comment about Lester's feet and it's a good timing because I got a text message this week for you have been following our industry with Lester's feet. You might remember a young man. He's now a senior in high school named Braden from Ohio that had bone cancer in his leg and he fought the cancer, had to have a lot of surgeries, treatment, but ended up that the damage from the cancer ended up doing so much damage structurally that he had to have his leg amputated. But he's rehabbing from that and his mother sent us a message and wanted me to share and said, Braden just started weight bearing on Friday. It was wonderful to see. He's allowed to go up to 30 pounds now and using physical therapy bands and working hard. We are forever grateful for all those who contribute to Lester's feet. Please make sure to tell everyone thank you. So for those of you watching on YouTube, I'll put a picture up on the screen of Braden working his butt off in physical therapy. I believe he's about 18 years old now, but for those of you who don't understand what we do, his mom and dad were allowed to basically, we covered some of their bills so they could take off time with work while he was fighting cancer. So they could stay with him. So thanks for all you guys do to help us help these families. It's very much appreciated. So we'll get to the next question. - This one comes from Jason Steele from Mountain City, Tennessee. He says, "Hey, Don and Terry, I love the podcast. "I admire you guys for your courage to love "and promote Jesus and the wicked world we live in today. "I was wondering if you guys have noticed "how some areas hold bigger bucks. "Not only on a state scale, "but even as small as pockets in a county, "if that makes sense. "I have noticed that some parts of the county "where I live in the mountains of East Tennessee "hold bigger deer than others, regardless of age. "I'm not sure if it is genetics or nutrition "or maybe both. "I would love to hear your thoughts on the subject. "Thanks." Jason and I have noticed that. In fact, I wrote an article that I think had appeared in North American Whitetail several years ago. And the title of the article was Hot Pockets. And I've noticed pockets within, basically it's not even a township. It's like a couple of sections. A couple of square miles where there seemed to always be giants. And when you looked at it, that section or those couple of sections, that small area was really from a habitat standpoint, was really not much different than the habitat around it. But for whatever reason, there was always a giant in these areas. And I can still think of three or four of these areas within 20 miles from my house or whatever. My thinking is it's gotta be genetic, because the nutrition does not change that much here in the Midwest from one mile to the next. It just does, we got corn and soybeans everywhere, but it's gotta be genetic pockets. And that's the only explanation that makes any kind of sense whatsoever to me. You know, I know there's gonna be giant bucks show up randomly here, there and everywhere, but when you start getting giants time after time, after time in the same section, it's gotta be genetic. So the other thing that probably plays into it to some degree is in those areas, I think there's typically some sort of sanctuary where those bucks get some age on them. So I think it's a combination of two. I don't think it's nutrition, but I think it's age and genetics. There's something there. There's some place where those bucks can hide and live to older age classes. And then there's also the genetic factor where they've got the genetics to be giants when they do live to those older ages. - Yeah, it makes sense. Now we're gonna get the last one up here. This one comes from Jordan Maust from accident, Maryland. He says, "Hey, Don and Terry, "thanks for taking my question. "I'd like to know your thoughts "on how often you would hunt a mature buck "from the same stand "if you're hunting it on a good wind and good access. "Thanks." Oh, Jordan, I wouldn't hesitate to hunt it two or three times a week and maybe even a little more than that. As long as you got the wind in access, the access is real critical. You can hunt stands with a great wind, but to get to it, the access is just a little bit tricky. In that case, I'd hunt it last, but if you've got foolproof access, for instance, if you walk across a cattle pasture that has cattle in it, you cross the fence from the cattle pasture and your stand is right there on the other side of the fence where you're never even putting ground scent on the side where the deer are and your wind is always blowing back into that cattle pasture where there's almost never deer. Well, that's one that you could probably hunt day after day and not burn it out. Now, if deer starts seeing you from that stand or seeing you come in and out across that cattle pasture, it might be a different story. But that's the kind of, when I talk about a no-brainer, perfect access, perfect wind, that's the kind of situation I'm talking about. And one like that, you can hunt multiple times a week and not burn it out. - I think the definition of what people think of when they say good wind and good access is probably the biggest variable is people's interpretation of that, to be honest with you. - Yeah. - So you ready to hit the woods, Terry? - I'm not. I'm ready to hit unfortunately downtown Chicago. I have to, by the time this releases, I will be at work at a trade show in downtown Chicago and will not return home until September 15th. So it will be the first time because usually I still get to hunt opening day in Kentucky because of the late start. It happens every seven years, but because it basically being a late opening day, I will not be able to hunt opening weekend. And I got to go work unfortunately. - Well, you'd be careful up there in Chicago. I've heard some things in the last couple of days about the Venezuelan gangs that have been an issue out in Colorado. Well, the Chicago gangs are pretty much made it clear they're not going to tolerate that. And there could be some absolutely, it could be almost like a war zone up there. So be careful. - Yeah, I'm not looking forward to it, but we got a lot of friends that are out hunting opening weekend of Kentucky, wishing them the best of luck, hopefully by the time this podcast airs, there's actually one or two bucks on the ground with some really good friends of ours. And I'm ready to hit the woods though. I got a couple of little small projects with my gear that I have to get done. I have to, it may be somebody's got some advice for me. They can comment down below. My vision is bad enough. I have to wear glasses when I hunt now. I have problems with contacts in the morning, but my glasses have these intermediate bifocals in it and I'm having trouble with my peep site on the top or bottom half of my bifocals. So I'm trying to figure out an anchor point. I don't know if somebody else has an idea about that, but I'm open to options. So I've been trying to figure out an anchor point that I'm comfortable with out of a tree. Shooting from the ground, it's fine. But when you get up in that tree and you bend over, it's, I'm a little worried. So I want to make sure I have that completely figured out before I hit the woods. - Well, I can't help you there, but I bet you somebody has a solution. - I'm sure somebody has an opinion out there. - Yep, they'll probably tell you to start shooting a crossbow, use a scope. - Yes, it might be an option, but not on the priority list. So what big projects do you get going on this week? - You know what, I'm pretty much in, I've checked all my cameras. I maybe have a couple more that I want to check this coming week. I'm going to be working on my bow. I'm hoping Matthews gets me that new bow this week and start shooting it, get it tuned in. And you know, I'm not a big archery freak. I love bow hunting, but it's the hunting part that appeals to me more than the bow part. And I don't accept change very well. I'm kind of a groutial suit that would just assume not change, it frustrates me to see the world change around him. And he even changing bows every year is kind of a challenge. So I'll be spending a lot of time with a new bow in my hand making sure that I can hit what I'm shooting at. - Yep. So we haven't talked about this, but I don't get to come back until the 15th. And it's going to be really tough for us to record and get enough bandwidth in a hotel in downtown Chicago. So I think probably what's going to end up happening is Don and I are going to have to record on the afternoon or evening of the 15th. So this is your all's warning for those listening to the podcast that next week's podcast might not upload until Monday the 16th. So we got to figure out our schedules to do that. But while everybody's listening, just be aware and don't freak out. Next week's podcast might not upload until Monday, September 16th. So just fair warning. - Keep those questions coming in guys. We've been getting some good questions and I've had several to pick from, but don't stop sending them, keep firing away. - That's all I got. - See you next week everybody, God bless. [BLANK_AUDIO]