We're driven by this search for better, but when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search "match" with Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Ditch the busy work, use Indeed for scheduling, screening, and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. Enaging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day, Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences, so the more you use Indeed, the better it gets. Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great, talent fast. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/bluewire. Just go to indeed.com/bluewire right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast, that's indeed.com/bluewire. Hey Big Blue Bancer listener, would you like an extra $500? That's a lot of cash. Go to bluewirepods.com/survey and complete the Blue Wire Audience survey about you and your podcast listening habits for a chance to win a $500 gift card. The survey will help create a better advertising experience for audiences and, in turn, help this show. That's bluewirepods.com/survey, where all you have to do is answer some simple questions for a chance to win $500. Make sure to read the full terms and disclaimer, plus complete the survey for a chance to win. Bluewirepods.com/survey. The link is also in the show notes of this episode. Welcome back. It's the Big Blue Bancer, New York Giants football podcast. I'm Dan Schneider. It's always my co-host Nick Folado. Basically the worst case scenario. And with that all said, today we are going to look at the bull case for the New York Giants. We are going to break down the best case scenario for the Giants defense in 2024. We will go position by position. We'll talk players. We'll get it to nitty-gritty. We'll talk scheme. If you've listened to us do this podcast on the offense earlier, you're going to get something very similar on the defense side. Also, if you enjoyed that, do us a favor. Hit the like button right now. Click it. Use your hand. Take your finger. Go over to the mouse. And look, when I say it like this, it's not because I'm trying to be patronizing, even though, God damn does it sound patronizing as I play it back in my head. I'm just trying to reiterate the importance of you clicking that like button for us. It's annoying for me to ask this every time. I understand that. Trying to turn this into a bit and Nick using sound effects will hopefully help that because guess what? Bits, they can be annoying, but they can also be memorable. And I want this to be something that's memorable. I want you to think when you're watching this podcast on YouTube, I want you to think I have to click the like button because I like these guys. When I like the free content, they're giving me and I support them and I want them to grow and I want them to keep doing this for the days that will come when the Giants are good because I can guarantee your ass when the Giants are consistently good football team, this is going to be a phenomenally fun and I apologize for that Nick mostly because he's doing the editing, but hopefully we can just let that fly or something and let it continue to roll on. I don't know. That's up to him. I heard my recent ran on Gettleman. It got leap out, which was the right thing to do. Looking back. All those fly maybe one in episode every four is fine, but look, when they're damn good football team, damn is a fine word to use these days in 2024 when they're a damn good football team. This is going to be fun to watch. It's going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be a point. I hope where I am. I'm a little bullish on my own pod, but I'm hoping we can turn it into appointment listening. So that was a long rant, but I need you guys to help us out here. Hit the like button, subscribe, and then we'll get continued with the content. So Nick transitioning into what we're doing today, bull case, the best case scenario for this New York Giants defense. Where does it start for you? It starts on the defensive line. That is the strength probably of the team. The best position group is the defensive line. You group the edges in with the defensive tackles. It's Dexter Lawrence, Brian Burns, it's cave on tibido. It's the Giants offense allowing the Giants defense to actually pass rush late in games, pin their ears back and just go and it stunts its twists from Shane Bowen. It's exotic pressure packages, maybe not sending five and six every time. Use some simulated pressures and some creepers drop cave on tibido off into coverage once in a while and send true Phillips confuse the offensive protection, but the catalyst of this defense is Dexter Lawrence and Brian Burns. And I think how you align these two players, you can use Dexter Lawrence as a three technique with Brian Burns way out wide or Dexter Lawrence as a four I on the inside shoulder of the offensive tackle with Brian Burns way out wide. You're going to force that guard to set against Dexter Lawrence and that tackle to kick all the way out against an athlete like Brian Burns is going to put a lot of protection packages in a bind. You're going to see some tight end usage, you're going to see some running back usage allocated just to that, which essentially removes them as a primary receiving threat. It could still be a check down. So I think what Shane Bowen does with those two players specifically is the primary thing I'm looking for. And I think it's realistic or if this is a ceiling episode, both of those guys get double digit sacks. Let's go with that. Both Dexter Lawrence, Brian Burns get double digit sacks, cave on tibido gets eight plus sacks. Talking about 28 sacks alone, if they each got 10 between those three and I still think ceiling wise, it could even be higher with those three if the Giants are in the game scripts that can allow these players to flourish. I don't think you're too far off there. I think the ceiling is 30 combined at least from those three if what you said is true. And that's where it really starts. Now I'll start by saying this. You think about the past, the past Giants best teams that they've had in this registry have been dominant on the defensive front. Even the 2011 team that was 30th in defense got healthy for the postseason and the past was became a major factor again. Now with that said, number one thing by far is what you said, which is can this offense keep the defense in a position where they can make these game changing plays. Because even if you look back, we're going to go back to 2022 for this point Nick, but even if you look back just the 2023 cave on tibido taking over that jet scheme because the Giants gave him opportunities to take over that jets game. I understand the tackle play was whatever with the jets, but that's going to happen. I thought you're going to face some bad tackles and tibido is going to get a lot of one on one's this year with burns and Dexter Lawrence on the defensive line, which is a point we're going to make coming up. But look, that game he dominated because the Giants were in the game the whole time. They were winning at times in that game. There were a lot of opportunities. You go back to 2022, the Washington football game, the second Washington football game Giants won that game because of a cave on tibido play. You go back to the Baltimore game, it can be argued that Giants won that game because of a cave on tibido play. And that's all cave on tibido, who's now their one A or their two past Russia in more reality because Brian Burns is that goddamn special. Damn it. I did it again. I use GD, which is not always viewed as a curse, but some people don't like it. And I don't want to offend those people. But what I'm saying Nick here is look, Brian birds is a special talent, the spin movie put against Houston in the preseason, but not just that dude, the film, the Florida state tape that me and you loved about him that made him like we were high on him as a prospect based on that tape converted over to Carol. Freshman, dude. I love the way he was. Yes. Watching fresh hot news. That was special and you could see it right away. And I like what he doesn't run game to, but then you look at the Carolina Panthers tape as well. So now tibido is a two guy. So if that number one thing comes true, Nick, that offense can keep the Giants with a lead or tied for a lot of games, one of those two things, positive game script. That's when this defensive line becomes what you said to start, which is the best unit on this team, hands down, receiver, quarterback, DB, whatever, this is the unit that can be the difference in them being a winning football team. Realistic ceiling over under on sacks with those three. So it's a little odd because usually ceiling doesn't mean there's going to be an over. So go with a number that you think would be in the upper echelon of their, of their realistic ceiling. Can you give me sack numbers for the past two seasons? If you can do that while, while filibuster, I'll get you, I'll get you my guess. But while we do, while Nick does that and gets me some sack numbers from the Giants for 2020. I mean, I can just come up with them off top. My head is ballpark, but Ryan Burns has hovered around nine and he's had double digits once. I was thinking more, more so, I want to get an idea of that before I make my guess. But I'll say this when it comes to the defensive line and the impact they're going to make Dexter Lawrence last year, you could look at these numbers, think Warren Sharp's tweeted him out in a few hours tweeted out the amount of pressures that Dexter Lawrence got as a nose tackle last year was about four D four zero more than any defensive tackle, any nose tackle, and you're into your defensive lineman in the NFL. He was essentially a cheat code when Dexter Lawrence was lined up over a center. He would get immediate pressure and he would do it often. And that changed the entire defensive giants. It was more impactful in 2022 because the Giants were a good team and they were in games. But again, if the Giants offense can do their part of the job, now you get Dexter Lawrence doing what he was doing. You also have Brian Burns, you also have cave on tibido coming into his third year. I feel like cave on tibidos looked a little bit different in training camp. Nick, do you have those numbers now? I do, but it's crazy when you think about it because the Giants surrendered 85 sacks according to stat news. And they had 34 sacks last season, I believe they had 34 in 2022 as well, if I'm not mistaken. So they've been hovering around that 34 mark. Now to be fair, no, no, they have 41 in 2022. I'm just loaded. My computer's a little slow right now, which is funny because I have a, I have a Mac, right? You're like, everyone talks so highly and so highly and positive about the Mac, a little overrated. That's all I'm going to say. You might want to stop exploring sites up again with the letter X before typing it. Yeah. Right. And that might be that computer. But look, 41, 34, the fact of the matter is the Giants, and you could see this stat, I think, again, this is another sharp football stat. The Giants under table have been like in this crazy hole after every first quarter. I think they're lasting the NFL as far as leads in the first quarter go, even in 2022. So they've been playing from behind at all times, which really limits your sack upside as a defense. Now this is the best case scenario we're talking about here. Within our best case scenario for the defense, it means things are working synergy. The offense is doing their role. So in a best case scenario with Brian Burns on this roster, I'm going to say the Giants can eclipse the 50 sack mark. I'm going to go with 52 sacks in a best case scenario. And that means double digits across the board from the big three. And that means as easy as it's contributing, that means Chapman's throwing some in. And that means Davidson. All those dudes are also thrown in one and a half, two and a half, three. We get some from Ocarricket. We get some from, you know, Deont Deont, somebody comes in at nickel blitz here or there. Bang, bang, bang. 53. All right. So what about just for those three then? Okay. Just for those three combined or each? Combined. Just for those three combined, I am going to go with 43, well, geez, no, no, that doesn't make sense. How could I do 52 and 43? Because that would mean only nine for the rest of the Giants defense, which seems, you know, I mean, crazier things have happened, but I was thinking like 31 32, because again, it's not quite the ceiling, but it's a realistic upper echelon towards the ceiling. I know I'm getting very specific. I want to say it like, okay, so you know what? I take it back because if I'm going to say 52 and 43, it means the Giants are basically a 12 or 13 one football team. If they're only a 10 or a nine or 11, which is probably, I don't want to say it, but kind of their ceiling, if we're being realistic and not home or fans, which is okay to be, then it's probably 42 overall on about 31 32 33, I think you need more leads to get into that 50, right? Yeah. That's an agreement. But and you also need your secondary to hold up and with that, just because we haven't officially acknowledged it on the podcast, the Giants did sign a Dory Jackson back. Were you surprised by that at all, Dan? Not only was I not surprised, the one part that surprised me more was the negative reaction to it from parts of the fan base. Yeah. I feel like we're at a point here, Nick, where there are just parts of this fan base that are just going to be negative about everything. And I understand that. So I'm not blaming them because it's been really freaking bad to be a fan of this team. And at the same time, to their credit, these people who are always negative about everything, two things are working in their favor, one, a Dory was not good on tape in 2023, two, the Giants have sold us a bill of goods year after year, and then they haven't lived up to that bill of goods. So these people in their minds are saying, why am I going to fall for another trap of a Dory Jackson? This Dory Jackson that it's good for the team. But on my mind, just trying to take a step back and be like objective, which some people might say, this is Homer view and that's fine. I'm like, well, a Dory was great on tape in 2022. Okay. He's one, only one year removed from tape that me and you broke down week after week and we're like, this dude's smooth and coverage. This dude's actually putting effort into the run game. Last year it was a different story. Guess what also happened last year? He was going into a contract year on a team that was dead in the water and a defensive coordinator who was not on the same page with the head coach and ultimately got, I don't want to call it fire, just walked out on the team. I don't know what that end of that wink, but officially technically what that was. All three of those factors are probably not going to lead to career years from defensive players. And another, and another important aspect of all this is if we go back to training camp last year, round this time, conversation about a Dory Jackson heading into a contract year, hey, buddy, outside corner, can you play slot? So Trey Hawkins, the third can get out there and he said, yeah, sure. And he did that. And I agree. I don't think his tape down the stretch was excellent. I don't think he was nearly as bad as people are making him out. Now the effort concerns are something that I think did manifest a little bit towards the end of the season. And it was one of the reasons why I think we were all so convinced that he probably wasn't going to come back at least before the draft, and then we saw what the Giants did in the draft. We're like, you know what? Maybe we should call it Dory. Then they gave 22 to Andrew Phillips and it was just like, okay, I guess a Dory Jackson is done here as a giant. But ultimately, and I want to say you said this last week, Dan, you're like, oh, yeah, maybe we should bring a Dory Jackson back. And then this week it ends up happening. And I'm happy about it because I was talking to somebody on Twitter about it. And I'm not acting and I don't think anybody's acting like he is Patrick Sir Tan or the shut down cornerback, but you're going to sit here and try to convince me that he's not an upgrade over Trey Hawkins, the third and he's not an upgrade over some of the back end cornerbacks on this roster. And it's like, that's asinine. Of course he is. So it's just another body, a healthy body who can play man coverage who I don't think has the issues in zone coverage that a lot of people are suggesting that he does who can come in here who I've also seen sound run defense from and can be that veteran in such a young cornerback room. So for me, I, I support this type of move. And I don't know if any other teams were interested in him either way. He's now on the roster. Let's see what happens. And worst case scenario is what he rides the bench like a lot of these other cornerbacks and Nick McCloud and Gordo Floss sees the day. That's excellent. Right. And, you know, I appreciate you calling that out, Nick, because I was like listening back to a couple of pods this weekend. And I heard like 16 hours before he signed with the Giants, like me, and I essentially said, you know, if I'm him, I'm not going to sign before training camp because I just am too at that stage of my career. I don't need to grind through a wheel and treatment, especially if I'm going to ultimately end up signing with the team I've already been on. I don't need to be there for training camp at that point as a vet. Now it's a new system you could say, but he's played in the system before, which by the way, they interviewed him yesterday, Giants people, Giants beat in house guys. And you know, he said that he's like part of why I like this is I know this system with shamebo and I'm coming into it. It helps me from my transition from going from, you know, not being in a training camp and not being in preseason, which doesn't matter anymore anyway for vets because they don't play and going right into the game. Now I don't know if we'll play week one, but it'll be there week two for sure. And like you said, Nick, there's a baseline level that a Dory Jackson provides from us. Even if you're going to say, okay, look, the 2022 tape was good. I thought I actually think we thought it was really good. Let's say we're just going to say it's good and we're over rating it. He was still, I thought he was very smooth in and out of his transition. I thought he still had a really good baseline level of athleticism. But taking all that away, Nick, even if you're going to say the negative case of this, which is he's an older player, he's less healthy, he's maybe not the same athlete he was Nick. If you're going to accept all three of those things, what he still has, no matter what you take away from that wisdom standpoint, is the savvy, the reps and the understanding of coverage space and where to be. And that's not something you can definitely say about Cordell Flott. That's not something you can definitely say about Nick McCloud. That's not something you can definitely say about Trey Hawkins. That is something you can definitely say about it, Ory Jackson. And we always talk about this every year, dude. We talk about the baseline, the bar that you have to get over just to be in NFL corner, just to be someone you could put on the field and not get torched every play. And it's such a high bar. That's why you see so many busts in round two, busts in round one, busts in round three at the corner position, because this fricking hard position to play. But I know that he can get to that baseline level from a savvy standpoint. And that's something that, again, no one has on this roster outside effect. I guess Deontay Banks, who doesn't even have the reps either. Yes. And he's also a better athlete than all those players you named. Right. Deontay Banks. Even at the stage. Yeah. I mean, he's not like 32. He's at home. He's 28 years old. I'm like, for me, it's a no brainer to bring him along because I haven't seen the official details on the contract. I'm imagining it's not that lucrative. So as long as it's not, then it is a no brainer. If the Giants sat there and gave him a ton, then yeah, maybe I'll have something else to say. But I don't even think the conversation, Nick, though, is if it's a no brainer. And I think me and you both know it's a no brainer. I think to be quite honest, anyone who's arguing else wise are just flat out wrong. And I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong too. So if I'm wrong about that, you can come back and tell me I was wrong about. Don't care. Like, let me know. And that's fine. But to me, it's not if it's a no brainer or not. To me, it's, will he make a difference that I think he could potentially make? Like, will he change the entire outlook of this corner position where the sense of what you said a lot throughout this offseason, Nick? You said it a lot. You said, I keep getting worried. Like we're going to be looking back on game film and an offensive coordinator is just going to pound targets to whoever, you know, McCloud or Flot is guarding and they're just going to target, target, target, target and force the defense's hand. I kind of feel like you're just like the word pound. You're such a, just. No, no, no. I was doing that for target, actually. Okay. That was not an, uh, that wasn't an innuendo. Okay. Well, I thought about doing an innuendo. I do those a lot. So then you were talking, so I was like doing it with my eyes like that, but that wasn't the actual. Okay. But look, I, I have a different expectation for a door and maybe wrong, but I don't think he's going to be someone you can consistently pick on like that, like you might have been able to do with Flot and McCloud. And so I think that's going to give them a way different outlook on the defense side of the ball. I do too. And I think we should just transition right now into the secondary since we've already talked a lot about it. We're talking ceiling. We get a Dory Jackson playing back to 2022. We get a, I would say a significant step forward from Deontay banks to being a. So we're talking about realistic a true lockdown number one. Now, what is a true lockdown number one? If we want to look around the league, I think you can say certain and sauce gardener. I don't know if, um, Deontay banks has that. I think if we're talking about, yeah, BJ Torell in him. Yes. I think I think it's more that AJ Torell, Derek Stingley Jr, I think Stingley Jr can also take another step and more. Yeah, but I think that's at least in the conversation if we're talking about ceiling. So we're looking at Ajax playing 2022 style, a Dory Jackson Deontay banks taking that next step. Andrew Phillips proving to be worth the third round pick and then some, but also the leading an asset and run support. And when the giants are in dime, yes, and on the blitz for sure. And when the giants are in dime, I want to see Nick McCloud out there playing to what Dan Schneier, Nick Falauda believe Nick McCloud played to as a bit player on this defense as a situational player, I should say. I think you nailed it for what my, for what my ceiling cases for the secondary, like one by one player by player there. But I will say this because it just brings me to some schematic points I want to discuss within that, uh, you know, frame of subject frame. First is what are your, I'm not okay. I'm not a huge fan of nickel blitzes. I'm going to be honest with you. I like them when they're very rare and well timed, but I think a lot of the time they're a waste of a player on the defense side of the ball because these good quarterbacks are just processing things so fast that it's just the kind of yours taking somebody out of the play. What are your thoughts on nickel blitzes? Because I've seen a lot through the years to be wasted players. So I like nickel blitzes so you can talk a lot about this. Now I think it keeps the protection honest. I think you can use a lot of deception and disguise with the nickel like baiting. Oh, I'm going to come. Oh, no, I'm dropping off and that just gives the quarterback one more thing that they have to process. I think in rushing downs with the running back away you want to bring if you, if you, if the team, the offense has a tendency to run the football on third and three or whatever, you can have that nickel fly off in the shotgun and act as a run defending player. So I like the usage of them, but it's, you know, you want to use it sparing play or just situationally. You don't want to be predictable too often or too frequently with it. I think also it plays into what Shane Bowen did frequently with the Tennessee Titans when you run simulated pressure again to reiterate simulated pressure is when you send four, but one of the Russia's is a non traditional Russia. So you're still dropping seven, but it would be cave on tibido or somebody on the line of Instagram and dropping off with shame Bowen does frequently. And he was one of the more innovative young defensive coordinators who was employing this back in like 2021, because he's a disciple of Dick LaBoe. I don't know if he ever actually coached under Dick LaBoe. I don't know if he was on staff with that. I think people suggested that he was, but I looked at them either way. Dick LaBoe used a lot of simulated pressures and Dick LaBoe was the famous defensive coordinator from the Pittsburgh Steelers. In Bowen game, he used that as well, and it just allows you to disguise where you're coming from while not while blitzing while not allocating an extra guy, right? And it can also take advantage of the protection depending on what the offensive protection is, how it's schemed up, if it's going to be five men, six men. So I like nickel blitzes, but it's like anything, dude, you don't want to be predictable with it. You don't want to use it too much. And I think Andrew Phillips. So he's instantaneous, man. He's very quick. I think he's the quickest nickel that the Giants have had. I think that could work in the advantage with the simulated pressures because he can get in the backfield like lightning, bro Like darn it homes was quick to but to me Andrew Phillips is a different level. What was his 10 yard display? It's gotta be like really really good I wanted to ask you about your opinions on Cordo Flott how he figures into this because I don't even know what the ceiling is for a player like Flott Ryan Reynolds here for I guess my hundredth mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no You know honestly when I started this I thought only have to do like four of these I mean it's unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month How are there still people paying two or three times that much? I'm sorry. I shouldn't be victim blaming here. Give it a try at mid mobile calm slash save Whenever you're ready 45 dollars up from payment equivalent to $15 per month new customers on first three month plan Only taxes and fees extra speed slower above 40 gigabytes of details This episode is brought to you by Microsoft Azure turn your ideas into reality With an Azure-free account get everything you need to develop apps across cloud and hybrid environments scale workloads create cloud Connected mobile experiences and so much more discover what you can create with popular services free for 12 months Learn more at azure.com. That's A-Z-U-R-E Dot-com and sign up for a free account to start building in the cloud today What's up big blue banter listeners? I love a great deal as much as the next guy But I'm not going to crawl through a bed of hot coals just to save a few bucks It has to be easy no hoops no BS So when mint mobile said it was easy to get wireless for $15 a month with the purchase of a three-month plan I called them on it turns out it really is that easy to get wireless for $15 a month and all of mint mobile plans come with high-speed data and Unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5g network You can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all of your existing Context to get this new customer offer and your new three-month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month Go to mint mobile comm slash BBB. That's mint mobile comm slash BBB Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mint mobile comm slash BBB What about payment required to put $15 month new customers on first three month plan only speed slower But before you get back on limited plan additional taxes fees and restrictions apply it's even mobile for details I'll get into thought in the second I want to respond first to some of the things you said there I think first the reason that's a connection there is think Diclobo is like brought on a special assistant when bonus they were Able yeah, so like you kind of can learn some concepts there I really like the point you made about nickel blitzes when with regards to what they can be for your run game You can use as an extra contained defender to spill everything back to the inside which can work really well for defense So that's a really good at a point. I will amend what I said to I like nickel blitzes If the corners and the DB's are playing up on the line of scrimmage I don't like blitzes from depth. I hate all defensive back blitzes from depth I see some coordinators do that and I think it's the dumbest thing ever And I think you're just throwing defenders out of your play. You're basically playing 11 on 10 One more thing on the nickel blitz is that I think can work into the Giants figure The Giants have two safeties right now that we really you and I really trust and appreciate their eyes And how quick they are how quickly this cipher what they see in Dane Beltland and Tyler Nubin and when you nickel blitz Usually you're gonna put a safety over the top If it is man coverage or you can even do this in zone and have that safety buzz down by buzz I mean just go towards the line or scrimmage So you nickel blitz you show that blitz you act like you can throw hot the quarterback and throw hot and then you have Tyler Nubin or Dane Belton Bating that right just waiting for that and they jump that route It would probably like it's going to be easy to pick up if you're playing against an advanced quarterback But against a younger quarterback that mistake could be baited that can lead to like a pick six So that's another aspect of the nickel blitz and I think can be exploited by Shane Bowen in the defense against more younger quarterbacks I'm gonna touch on the flot thing and then you can you can respond to it if you have some more on that But I want to get I don't want to lose this. I have a question I want to ask you that's gonna lead the rest of this Defense of that conversation before we get into the States. There's three big things there start with another thought thing. I look when you evaluate a prospect you're gonna have film you're gonna have a projection and Sometimes that projection is not gonna get realized Evan Neal's a great example of that and this happens over and over in the NFL So far Flot has not come close to realizing any of the projection that I had for him as a young Lanky player who impressed me from one standpoint and the standpoint that matters most to me and it seems to be working with DJ Turner Who look phenomenal with the bangles? It's click and close ability and he did not have anywhere near Turner's click and close ability Let me make that clear But he showed flashes at LSU of being able to play in space and then close down and break on those and when the receiver gets Into his break that to me is like the key point of an NFL play in the passing game It's like can the DB transition to where that receiver is or is the receiver better and smoother at transitioning and getting himself to the catch point? And Flot show me signs that and flashes of it. He hasn't shown me it yet at the NFL level. So Part of me wants to say ceiling case bull case, you know best-case scenario Flot fits this Boeing system better because we'll be used more off coverage The other part of me says the realistic side of this is Flot may just be a third round pick and in the NFL third round picks are Flipping a coin once and then flipping it again and timing those two together. That's really your percentage not the 50/50 It's 50/50 times 50/50, which I don't know where that gets you But it's a low percentage and that's how I feel about these days about third round DVs Yeah, and we're gonna get to what you were saying. The one thing I'll say with Flot is I'm perfectly willing to say this is your year to to prove something to live up to that third round pick There's still opportunity even though the Giants added a Dory Jackson and you could say that the injury to Cordell Flot may have prompted the Giants to add a Dory Jackson Anybody watch training camp is gonna come out here and say there's there's a reason There's another reason why they added a Dory Jackson. Yeah, and it wasn't it wasn't just the injury to fly Yeah, Flot was struggling in training camp. He really was to be fair. There were times just match up against Malik neighbors That's not but again, you're gonna face that we match up against EDLAM and Devontai ad or right Smith and all right Right exactly exactly and some of these teams have a great second receiver like Devontai. Look at that So that's the issue Good on to the way. Yeah, Devontai. No, no, it's never done There's no Devontai has ever been actually pronounced Devonta is and you used to do it on the other way Now you're doing Devonta, which I would have accepted the first time if you had said it that way the first time But you used to do this weird Devonta thing where you Like a sound I definitely never a you in that name If you had done the O the right way the first time I would have accepted the A at the end of that But it was unacceptable when you did the O the way you did the O just a stupid throwback for listeners But some might appreciate that but the question I want to ask you is this so from a bull case ceiling scenario best case There for the Giants defense talk to us a little bit about how things are gonna transition for coverage for the different type of coverage We're gonna see again. It's a lot less man coverage There's gonna be pattern match is gonna be these principles that we're not using and what could that if that's say Everything hits the ceiling hits the communication is locked in because we've seen this for some These types of don't like think of like a fan geo defense when it's really locked in the letters are playing together I remember watching the in-season Miami dolphins hard knocks last year and there was an episode like four or five episodes into it Where the DB's were eating dinner and they were talking to each other and they were talking about the difference of week one in that system versus week seven in a fan geo system From a communication standpoint so talk to us about that and what that ceiling could be for the defensive coverage in general versus a man coverage scheme Yeah defensive coverage in general look it's gonna be too high split field coverage is gonna be a lot of what you would call palms quarters It's like a cover for but it's match right so the defensive backs They're reading the routes and whenever those routes are declared say if it's a a slant coming into somebody's zone Basically that zone coverage turns into man coverage and they stick on it now If it's running across the field you pass those coverage is off That's why it's very communicative right if they're running a slant and I'm the apex I'm the nickel defender and it's going towards where the mic is where bobby okay Yes I'm gonna push that receiver if there's another threat coming in my direction say like a running back who is releasing out into the flat right, so The communication is the big back out real quick neck just so just to be clear because I know we sometimes calls over the stuff When you when you're saying push and obviously a lot You don't mean physically push no no no no what I mean push is I am releasing my responsibility who is in my zone To the zone that is adjacent to me the zone that is next to me limiting throwing windows in this type of system is the big deal So a lot of this is based on where are the threats? Where are the those offensive players? Where are they running their routes and is there an eligible threat coming towards my zone? Or can I stay on the receiver who i'm initially against long enough to really pass him off to that adjacent zone that Adjacent match and you only doing this in like two and a half seconds right so it all kind of just goes down in a man coverage That's for the quick game. Obviously plays can be extended but You just need all of these players to be on the same page to understand where all those threats are where All those eligible receivers are coming from and to To pass those things off those receivers off in a timely manner and that receiving zone defender Understands when that player is coming into their zone and knows when to assume them So those throwing windows between me passing and pushing a player off. They're very very limited So that's what we need when you are in those types of systems, but that's just that one specific coverage There's so many rules within that coverage. I mean you're gonna play it differently if you're going up against a three-by-one team A three-by-one nub team which means a tight end who is attached In line on the line or scrimmage a two-by-two team So there's a bunch of different ways and if you're an offense you want to manipulate that you're gonna run fast Two's fast three's fast fours into those areas fast four is it's three by one set You take the running back you run them behind those three receivers right at the snap And now you have to adjust to that player and there's a bunch of rules built into that depending on the defensive call But mainly it comes down to communication Vision and then also just athletic ability and man coverage once that route is declared by the offensive player And i'll say this as a broader point Um as I let you get into some of the specifics as you did a great job of doing right there, Nick There's a reason why the majority of NFL teams are moving toward these kinds of defenses And yes, we loved watching with barndale. He was fun as a coordinator But do we all remember getting torched by every good fast-crossing quarterback that wink barndale faced with the exception of aran rogers Who by the way wasn't really processing that fast that year and wasn't playing his best football with a brand new group of wide receivers The answer is because this type of system which again we see a majority of NFL defense is converting to Makes it really tough to get explosive plays in the passing game and makes it really tough on quarterbacks It makes them have to to me it puts a little bit more on their plate It's a lot less declared for them before the snap and after the snap, which has me excited to be on it Like yes, I love and I go back and forth because when we were with graham I was like I kind of want the wink barndale now that I saw the wink barndale I want to get back to this because it does require the only thing I don't like about the style of defense nick is it does require health In my opinion because when you start to get injuries, that's when communication really goes After you get just effed from from a communicator like a verse a man defense where you could just like put in a fabian Mero or a McCloud and it's like he looks kind of pretty good on tape because he's in man coverage Um, and he knows the responsibility, but will a fifth string corner always know where he's supposed to be on the field If he's just plopped in there after getting no reps all year That's when it starts to get a little scary in this style of defense But I do I do like what you said. I also just came to my mind since a small point But I like how brian dable uses a lot of fast threes and fast fours of barkley because that's his way of kind of attacking Some of these coverage and some of the things and trying to like dictate to the defense that are in these types of defense Just something to think about but anyway back to the point about the Giants defense and where it could go Sorry to go off track there for a second Now I see this question Obviously the talent is what it is and we're gonna get to the safeties where mean you are probably more bullish I would say verse consensus were more bullish on the safety position than any position on the new york football giants verse consensus Doesn't mean we think it's the best position group But I know how you feel about these safeties and I know how I feel about these more and get them in a minute But let's say overall secondary just pass coverage in general think back to Any system you've seen that emulates shane boans What's the ceiling in just pass coverage for this Giants defense if they hit the best case scenario limiting explosive plays through sound communication and Interceptions really like a lot of reading dude There's a lot of reading in here, right? And you're gonna see middle of the field closed to it's gonna be a lot more middle of the field open But you're gonna see nubin Monitoring the middle of the field and studying that quarterback And I think that can you know, these three step drops fire slants nubin has been was very good at minnesota Just click and closing driving down on those and coming away with the football now Was he gonna come away with 13 interceptions like he did at minnesota? I think uh set the record there or tied the record Probably not near one, but I think he is uh, he's gonna be a Difference maker. I think we're gonna look back in like three years Mac Tyler nubin's a good football player like he's a good football player for this defense He's a leader. He sounded runs a port and he creates turnovers like through safeties. We've seen here that includes guys Xavier mckinney Who wasn't necessarily a um interception right magnet? I think a lot of that was also because of Uh, wink martin dale and how he was employed and that's not necessarily a referendum On on wink martin dale because remember when wink martin dale came in Xavier mckinney was excited because he was going to be blitzing and he basically was going to be Executing any role a safety can execute where you can argue Maybe he would be better better off when it comes to creating turnovers and enforcing interceptions back in a role on the back end He was used everywhere, but I think tyler nubin You're going to see him be used on the back end a little bit more and those eyes are going to be a um a huge a huge advantage for what the new york giants are going to do defensively as well as dane belton who I don't know how many snaps he's going to play but I think big diamond big nickel You're going to see all three of those safeties out there pinock We didn't haven't talked about yet because I don't I don't His eyes I don't think are quite what those two's eyes are but he is the best athlete of the bunch And I think you're going to be seeing him do a variety of different roles. I think he's a valuable player as well So I don't know if you want to transition fully. Yeah, that's a good transition. Yep for good segue Look, no one like if I didn't study the new york giant. I didn't cover the new york giants I'd look at the safety group. They are they added tyler nubin He was cool in the travel of dane belton who that whatever day three pick from a couple years ago and then jason pinock who's this I'm not saying they're true difference makers But I think there is unrealized upside with these guys and i'm not just saying that because they're good athletes and they're young I think two of their skill sets mesh very well with what she and boughan is trying to do as we've articulated Over the last month or so the last two months It's basically she and boughan was hired and then jason pinock I think you can really do whatever you want with jason pinock because he is a true athlete And if you've just seen how the guys built he's built like an adonis out there bro So I think that can also his range and his physicality He can shore up and run sport a little bit It's a little bit wild in the tackle point if you could shore up and run sport a little bit I think it can uh work wonders and also the guy the giants Just signed as well from the green bay packers He's another one who has very good eyes very good patience knows when to bait quarterbacks when to react I did a youtube video on them if you guys want to go check him out. I think johnson jr But he's also another one who's a little bit wild in the tackle But has a fourth safety that's an upgrade over gl that is an upgrade over to various Owens And I think he could also factor into what shame boughan wants to do defensively I love that and You know, I made the hint that i'm more bullish on the giant safety group than any other group For a relative consensus and main reason why it starts for me with tyler nubin And i'm going to get to pinock who I also really like on tape But i'm going to start with tyler nubin who I just feel like a lot of giants fans looked at this pick like Ah, it's a need base pick and they just did it again They went down their board and they said we lost mckinney Let's just get somebody who we need and i'll be honest at times nick I knew I know this is just I had a very different evaluation on the guy than you did I felt like jms was a bit of a needs base pick to be completely honest at 55 I just had other guys I would take there at 55 from a talent standpoint from rejection standpoint And so I can understand what people will look at it like they kind of just using these middle rounds To take their needs. They take a corner. They need one. Take a center. They need one They take this they need that And I can understand that argument But the same time i'm just going to look at these players individually dude And i'm not going to look at everything like it's the same thing over and over And everything fits into some kind of just general human psychology dude and just general thinking If you group everything in as the same thing and don't look at things individually That's where you're going to have a lot of errors in your thinking And I look at tyler nubin individually and i'm like This dude had really fucking good tape when I actually watch I did it again I'm so sorry with these curses this dude had really good design. I don't know what's happening I'm just excited this dude had good tape in minnesota And then you look at like we had Trevor sycamon We've had him on four shows for pff their lead draft analyst He had him as a first round grade a top 30 player on this board because i can i can see why the instincts are there You watch his tape He's got instincts in the d-path He also has that ability to drive downhill and be a physical force which we saw on one wrap in the preseason In addition to that, he also really fits the shamebo and system Which means he could possibly bring out the best in him in addition to that Joe shane said in our knocks and it's interesting because he's an analytics guy We've heard it with the running back. We heard it now with this His study shows that those guys who rack up interceptions at the collegiate level translate best from the safety position And it's no surprise to me that anton would feel junior who again To me had the best tape of any safety in that class including mckinney He was my safety one that class you can go back and look at the receipts And is now one of the best if not best safety the nfl was racking up interceptions in that minnesota system And guess who he learned under his first year. He was on campus Tyler nubin that is anton winfield jr Who learned under his father and became the player he is today Not saying he's going to be the next anton winfield jr That's not how this works nick and listeners But i do think he shares some of those similar instincts and that ability and the eyes He's studious man. He's studious studies. He combines the work ethic and what you need to do to be a professional with the talent now i don't think he's the best athlete in the world, but he is a functional athlete for the nfl and One of the primary things you want to do as a defense is create turnovers He did that in spades at At minnesota, so i honestly believe that's going to be a a big win for the giant selecting a player like time Right, but i'm going to pay off his price tag as a second. Rowan's viewing that as a win right now And i think we're going to be right about that we'll see if we're wrong But i think that at the end of the season giant fans are going to look back on that pick Very very differently. I think your bold prediction of six interceptions isn't even all that bold It's attainable. It's a bold because it never happens But i think it's attainable weirdly enough and i think in addition to that i'll make my bold call I think by the start of next season he'll be a captain. He'll wear the c on his uniform That's a big one. I think that's the entire and it'll be a deserved captain So i think that's really the trajectory this kid is on And i'm very high and i'm now get to the other guy you said may not play a lot of snaps and you might be right But they may be valuable snaps dane belt and men Throughout his first few years of the giants he's just been in a magnet to the football Some of that you could say is luck though again Some guys tend to be around the football more than others and it's hard to say it's luck when it repeats itself And especially when he had those eyes at iowa and he played good football at iowa I also feel like he is a great fit for this system He wasn't drafted into the system But i kind of feel like this is a better bet for him to develop as a football player and as a safety We're gonna get the pinock in a second who's obviously above belton on the date on the depth chart But i want to talk a little belton first is it realistic for me to be excited about him this year? Yeah, it's certainly realistic to be excited about him for all the reasons we've said over the last i don't even what Four months five months or so i think he's gonna play more than 295 snaps, which is what he played last year He played 400 in his rookie season back in 2022. I think we're looking at a player say Health permitted that pinock and nubin don't miss a lot of games. I think belton is in line to play like 600 snaps I think he's going to be used. I don't think it's going to be I don't think a safety is going to be playing every single snap Xavier mckinney I think there's going to be a little bit of a rotation between a three But it's going to be mostly nubin and mostly pinock but belton's going to factor in and again I think Anthony johnson jr could factor into certain personnel packages a lot of big dime I don't know if we're going to be seeing a lot of quarter where it's like no Probably not going to see any actually like what we saw in 2022 where they were like We don't want any of the linebackers on the football field So we're just going to put defensive backs. It's first in 10 in the red zone against green bay We're just going to use defensive backs. That was crazy. You remember that? Yeah Yeah, but though kara k you don't you're not going to do that because kara k so versatile and A very underrated football player. I think in the NFL very underrated in passing lanes too Yeah kara k is good. We'll talk about him in a little bit But no, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that belton could be a difference maker on this defense I just don't know what that exactly looks like and I think he needs to be and he has been I think he needs to be efficient with his snaps meaning he has to have impact with a more limited amount of snaps I think he'll receive more than he has but he's not going to be playing like a thousand snaps And then uh, he needs to be better at run sport too. Sure And those are all fair fair points and 100 objective assessments I will say it's funny how things work out work themselves out nik Like giants obviously were pretty damn high from a great standpoint Anthony johnson last year in the draft and they view him as a fit for this system And he probably isn't here on this roster right now And they probably feel like this could be another pinoc type claim for them He's probably not here on this roster if not for the fact that green bay signs avian bikini So it's just like weird how that works acted like two or three safe and they draft Yeah, they drafted over him as well. Yep And they drafted a bunch I wonder if a lot of that is value base because they seem to like him And they thought maybe they could sneak him through and he has like good tape Like he like watch the breakdown of Anthony johnson jr You're going to see the miss tackles are going to pick up But I think a lot of that's correctable because he has a mentality You know how there's some defensive backs where they don't really want to tackle like that's not And he wants to kill people out there right but he's just wild when doing kind of like you're very Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off Yeah, not a mind you have watching the various Owens when he did his film study I do. Yeah. Yeah, you're various. No one's was also a little wild at Houston They have a type yeah, but this one like he's a much bigger and more physical player than jr So then i'm not talking necessarily about the size I think uh johnson jr is like 5'11" like 205 pounds So he's like thick but when he lays a hit like you feel it like he really thick You feel it when he lays a hit though He's a thick boy. Um, I don't know what that was. Have you seen that boy? You a thick that uh that dog The video that viral video. It's like a dog that looks like basically a bear He's so fat the dog so fat like then there's just a guy in the background like boy you thick boy You a thick boy I have never seen that Someone knows someone listener. I guarantee you I hope a listener has seen this this dog video with this fat dog that looks like a bear and the boy you thick boy Kind of dog is it fat dog video might be a bulldog Just say thick boy just type in thick boy and you're probably going to get it right away Yeah, thick with multiple sees. I think it's gone tick tock something. I do not use now No one does well. No one our age group does I'm watching nicklets in this video. It's a bad air bad radio. Let's get back to the podcast Did you do that come through or no? I don't think it came through now. Oh, I was just playing it. That's definitely not a bulldog though I'll tell you that much. Okay. That's a bulldog owner. Like come on now. What is that dog then? What would you guess that? I have no idea. It's not a bulldog I didn't look like a chocolate lab or something I'm not gonna lie to you and this is gonna be so disrespectful when I think of thick fat dogs I tend to think of bulldogs. I completely understand that. Yes, pretty disrespectful Also, I'll say this as far as phoenix goes He's not like most of the bulldogs I've met Most of the bulldogs I've met are just kind of fat and lazy Phoenix is just like thick and like a like a full back and he has energy So he's not your typical he's muscle-bound. He is not your typical bulldog So it's a very different, you know, meeting phoenixes and hanging with phoenixes is very different than most of the bulldog This is gonna sound very offensive those you have kind of the laziest type bulldogs I'm sure the owners know that though. Like, yes, that's what they like Yeah, yes, no disrespect to them They just you know son. I know a bulldog shout out Scott Yinowski He doesn't listen to this podcast, but he's gonna like this Homer is his name like Homer Simpson and this guy couldn't be more reminiscent of Homer Sims This this dog does not go on walks The most he'll do is go on to the backyard for a second and just every time I'm at that house He's just laying there. There's no movement from that dog He's a wild life and I just don't understand it But back to the show back to the podcast. Let's send it to the linebackers That's the last unit and then I want to wrap up by talking the ceiling of Shane Bowen as a coordinator That's interesting one, but let's because that's a big one Let's talk linebackers here. Where do you want to start there? Bobby okay. Look, I I think he performs. I think you can make an argument that he plays like a top six linebacker, maybe I think there's at least an argument there for that now There's a lot of good linebackers Rope want Smith red Warner But he's a difference maker play every single snap on the defense last year So if we're gonna talk ceiling with him is he plays every single snap again for the defense He stays healthy. He's the leader the green dot wearer of the defense calls the plays relays everything makes the adjustments All of that is things that we've already seen from Bobby. Okay, so he just maintains that level while being healthy While also using his length to disrupt passing lanes and be everywhere in the run game Which is kind of what we saw last season So we could just get another season of what we saw in 2023 and then maybe a little bit more That could be a ceiling that would satiate me when it comes to Bobby okay because I I believe he is underrated in the general NFL world. I would say this Any good football player on film for the Giants over the last four or five years is going to be underrated Consensus wise in the NFL because nobody watches giant state and everybody kind of thinks that we think as a team and as a unit So you're gonna see some guys like that Bobby okay is one of them when we become one of these chiefs type teams We won't have these same kind of talks of like this guy's so underrated because they're gonna get their love They're gonna get their glory But as far as Bobby okay goes the ceiling for me and the best case scenario is this Nick He produces on a consistent level like that four and I don't know it was four or five But there was either a four or five game stretch for okay last season It wasn't even 20 22 or obviously it wasn't 20 wasn't on the team blank little brain fart for a second But last season that four or five game stretch I don't remember the exact games one of them was bills one of them was washington that four or five game stretch that he had He was one of the three best inside backers in the NFL during that stretch I felt like it was more of a four or five game stretch than a 16 17 game stretch of that elite ceiling That i'm talking about but my ceiling play best case scenarios I don't know if I can use no yes I can expect that to potentially be there for a 17 game season over every single game I think he's capable of that so my ceiling is becomes that and the biggest difference to me that I saw on a carrot case tape Was that ability to be a impact defender in the passing lanes? He was doing a great job of recognizing where to be in the passing leads Where to jump into where to get his arms into he has long arms and he used them to his advantage in those passing leads And he made a difference as a pass coverage linebacker that I haven't seen a giant's linebacker making Decades basically at this point since Michael bully and he's not even the same position as boy It's so much harder for him to do it as an inside backer The only guy you really see do that is Warner and a few others like him But he was doing it at a really high level for that four or five game stretch So for me, it's you carry that over from the four to five games to the entire season Right there with you and I don't think we really need to speak too much more on karaoke Giant fans are aware of that. He's clearly the best linebacker on this team What about that second linebacker spot? We need a linebacker to step up and be I think ceiling wise Realistic ceiling wise I'm not being too aggressive Above average consistent linebacker. I think mica mcfadden showed spurts last year being an above average linebacker But it wasn't consistent. So i'm talking about lowering his 20 plus percent miss tackle rate Significantly right you miss a lot of tackles as a linebacker I get it, but we watched a tape on mica mcfadden I think his mind was clicking but he would put himself frequently in position to make the tackle but slight athletic limitations held him back That just needs to be rectified a little bit and that would be me That's a very realistic ceiling now you could also say oh jiante johnson ends up playing and he's a frickin star And he's an ex-babio karaoke sure, but i'm just i'm going a little bit conservative here And I just want a second linebacker spot specifically mica mcfadden to seize that opportunity and be a consistent competent starter And also maybe jiante johnson works in sometimes and we see something there maybe even muisau who knows but that that's where i'm at What about you? I think that's the ceiling as well and that may not seem as a high bar to set but remember Dude again, no one wasn't built in a day Not every single one of this units on this football team was going to have a really realistic high ceiling for this year But I went through this thing neck and I didn't feel like honestly Line second linebacker is about the only thing that doesn't to me have a ceiling now You could say second corner doesn't but I think a doria is a ceiling say safety doesn't I think those safety sub ceilings It's tight end. I think those tight ends of ceiling. So really for me, it's just this second linebacker position So what i'm looking for as a ceiling is what you just described Being the right position at the right times understand the defense and quite frankly neck be healthy That's kind of where i'm at right now because I don't feel like the health situation is that great And even if that means they're ready to play for week one of the vikings I don't want them playing hurt or worse You know re-injuring themselves because they're not fully a hundred percent Which I don't feel great about the injury situation right now with any of the linebacks or slides okay Uh coming out of the preseason and training camp And m- and mousa is it mousa or mousa or mousa, how do you pronounce that guys lame darius mousa? mousa mousa mousa I'll get that right from this point on so he might be the only other the healthiest I should say behind okay. So that's kind of where i'm at I want to see a lot of sub-packages this year though, Nick I want this defense to live in sub-packages and limited linebackers on the field to shame bowing because we got to get out of here soon Yes, what I want to see from shame bowing Is I want to see the communication issues that we've seen through training camp I want to see that brought down mitigated a little bit and I think with experience You have a young receiving or young secondary that that realistically can happen I want to see a similar Effectiveness in the red zone though. I think he's allowed touchdown on like 37 percent of red zone trips last year Which ranked second behind only the baltz more ravens the tennessee titans who a lot of teams think suck They were very good in the red zone and he's typically been pretty sound as a red zone play call it drops a lot more than you would think You know drops eight so you're having three-man rush giants got three guys who can rush So there's not a lot of space for quarterback to target force those field goals keep the new york giants in game So I really want to focus on that red zone defense being very similar to what he was able to do against tennis Or as of the titans coordinate or and I'll also say I think he has more talent now too I mean a jefferson's and herald landry those are talented brian burns decks or warrants I got to take brian burns decks or Lawrence over landry and simmons. It's it's not as slam dunk as I think I'd want it to be But I think I would lean giants in that situation and uh Yeah, you too and then uh also just create turnovers and pressure with with the four-man rush And I think I mentioned it maybe the last podcast How or maybe it was earlier this podcast been so long How you align? Dexter Lawrence and brian burns to set up one-on-ones for cave on tibido and brian burns themselves to dictate the protection For the offense dictate to the offense with your star pass rushes Two of them on the same side and allow cave on a feast with one-on-one on the other side I think you can get really creative to to help the defense generate pressure Uh with with how you align these players. Um, what about you? Yeah, I think it starts for me with Look, Shane Bowen to me has more talent to work with than he had with the titans because there's more talent in the secondary And he never had a linebacker like ocaricase level And at his best what he did was get off the field on third downs and get off the field in the red zone That was what he did. No three things get off the field on third down Get off the field in the red zone and stop the run Bebe a his scheme those were three things that Shane Bowen did that if he can bring over to the giants Are going to make this a good football team and it's funny nick because like What was it two years ago or three years ago at this point 2021 The titans were the number one seed in a tough AFC that had momes josh alan joe burrow like Quarterback's death row. They were the number one seed With a quarterback who a lot of people think the ceiling for janiel jones was that quarterback ryan tannahill And at his peak that was tannahill's best season as an NFL pro by far It was his outlier season tannahill was essentially what jones could hopefully be get the ball day j brown a.k.a Get the ball to malike neighbors off of play action and there's no derrick henry on this offense obviously But at the same time, I feel like there's more weapons in the passing game And I feel like shane bowin was the guy really leading the way there with a number one ranked defense now the giants Maybe don't have the talent. I don't remember that tighten steam fully. They had more talent in the secondary I don't think they really did though to be honest It was it was the safeties a lot of a lot of good sakes a lot. I'm tired But I kind of yeah a lot of them using their eyes to create right over so too Right and right like that's what buyer's whole thing was was he was a turnover magnum And it was a turnover machine and I think tyler nubin can be that right and and bired I don't have it in front of me, but he's multiple pro bowler right might be an all pro player Yeah, I don't know if now I don't want to just say like oh lots of tyler nubin is going to be But I think at least there's a potential there because bire was a very good player And I just believe nubin can be that and the system helps you enhance how good of a football player You are and that's what I think kevin bire benefited from he was a good football player But the system also helped him and i'm hoping that's what can happen with tyler nubin That's the bottom line when nubin he is going to give him the be given the best chance he can get to be the best bro He can be because he entered this system That's just a true bottom line fact about what tyler nubins potential is joining a team with this kind of defense system versus another system Which is great news for us by the way, but yeah, man So I just look at that blueprint the titans had the shines aren't going to be the number one seed I'm not delusional neck, but again, like the ceiling they always said for daniel jones was ryan tanahill Um, and you know tanahill that year was a good player because he had aj brown Could be something similar with daniel jones and neighbors. I don't know. I hope this is our bullish case This is our optimism is our hopium and this is the defense of hopium pod. So we'll wrap it up there Thank you. Everybody listen, please do us a favor hit the like button. I asked you the beginning I'll ask you again Please hit that like button subscribe to the podcast and keep it locked and loaded because we're just getting started This is game day week. This is week one. We're gonna have a preview of the game coming up We're still gonna have our prediction for the season and our stat projection show maybe a few other things like this one today, but It's time, baby. We're here. We're what now nik. Um, I guess Less than no probably about full week away from watching our first film of regular season action Which is pretty exciting too from just that standpoint. So a lot of good stuff ahead Keep it locked and loaded at the great rest of your week and we'll talk to you soon [BLANK_AUDIO]
