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Just go to indeed.com/bluewire right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast, that's indeed.com/bluewire, terms and conditions applied. Add to hire, you need Indeed. And, in turn, help this show. That's BluewirePods.com/survey, where all you have to do is answer some simple questions for a chance to win $500. Make sure to read the full terms and disclaimer, plus complete the survey for a chance to win. BluewirePods.com/survey. The link is also in the show notes of this episode. And, in the end, we have a Friday night game, which is somewhat exciting, but also annoying. I'm sure a lot of fans are going to do the same thing, and then another 48 hours to go, and the Giants are playing their first game this season, hosting the Minnesota Vikings in a game where they opened this favorites, but now the Giants actually home underdogs for that game as the betting market has heavily poured money in on the Minnesota Vikings. Really important game. Nick, the Giants have won just one of their last seven home openers, which is a wild stat that I didn't know. I thought I looked today. It was that Titans win two years ago, when the Titans missed that field goal at the end of the game, and Giants went for two-point conversion. Brian Dable's first game is head coach. It set the tone for the season. I don't think it's a surprise that that was like their one winning season in the last seven, I think, is what it was. So these first games matter. They mean a lot. We saw last year the Giants got their ass kicked by the Cowboys, 40 to nothing. The entire season was an epic disaster versus expectation. So I'm very excited for this first game, Nick. We're going to do preview of the game later this week. This is not that. What we're doing today is this. We're looking at the offensive side of the ball. We're going player by position by position, player by player, and breaking down the best case scenario for the Giants offense in 2024. If everything hits right, this is a variance playing. We're looking at the top of the scale. The bottom of the scale. We're going to see what happens today if the top of the scale hits for the Giants each regard and what that means and what kind of ceiling that could have. So Nick, where on the offensive side of the ball would you like to start? Let's start at the quarterback position. I know that's not controversial or anything. So if we could just dive right into that and see where the ceiling is, the realistic ceiling for Daniel Jones. Obviously the ceiling is like, oh, he becomes Patrick Mahomes. Well, I don't think that's possible. But what is Dan, the realistic expectation for Daniel Jones to hit his ceiling? I think the best case scenario for the Giants is a version of what Jared Goff gave the Lions last year in 2023. We can pull up those stats for Jared Goff. Maybe if you have a second Nick, pull him up while I'm talking here just to get an idea of what that would be. Now I'm saying a version because I don't think the Giants offense line is quite near the level of where the Lions offensive line is right now, top three, top two unit in the NFL. Giants are hoping to get into the 15th range on the offensive line. So with that said, it's a version of that. It's a lesser version. But with the same time, Malik neighbors can be at the same level, in my opinion, year one as Ammon Ross and Brown, as far as what they offer, the Giants certainly have some talent. Not David Montgomery and Jamier gives it running back, but they have talent. They have a big tight end. He's not Sam Laporta. They also have some an ancillary P-set receiver. I don't think the weapons are too much worse here. I think really what happened there with Jared Goff is he's playing behind in a line, an whole line that ascended to elite and he's got the play caller. That's the key factor we always discuss when we break down Lions state. It's Ben Johnson. And we know Nick, or at least in our mind, we believe Brian Dable, and we'll get into that as well a little bit later individually, can be that play caller. So what did that read out as last year? What did Goff do? So Goff threw for over 4,500 yards, 4,575, 30 touchdowns, and 12 interceptions in 17 games. So I think for Jones, what that might look like is 4,000 to 4,100 yards, 400 fewer yards, maybe something in the 25, 26 touchdown range. And I think honestly, if he's going to start throwing like that, we're going to see at least 12 interceptions. But this again is a best-case scenario, so he keeps it at 10, 11, 12 range. A two to one touchdown to interception ratio. I don't think Jones, what was, I don't know what Jones's rookie year interception total was because I knew he fumbled a lot. I don't remember if he, the interceptions, but I don't think it was old or something. If it was 12, then it was two to one. I think it might have been 13, but I would like to see him get to that two. I think the best-case scenario for Jones, he is getting to that two to one touchdown interception ratio or above it. And again, I also think he'll be adding four, 500 yards on the ground. Honestly, best-case scenarios, as long as we're talking, he's healed from the ACL. He's running the same way he used to run, which is possible. We've seen this happen. Yes, athletes do take a year to usually typically to get back the form for an ACL. But guess what? You know, who didn't follow that path? Breeze Hall, Adrian Peterson. I'm not putting Daniel Jones on the athletic level of an Adrian Peterson genetic level in Adrian Peterson or a Breeze Hall. But guess what? Daniel Jones hit like 22 miles per hour in each of the last two seasons and that big run against the Eagles where everyone laughs that he got tripped up at the end, he tripped himself up. He was like, I watched that play recently, and he was going wild on that play, just wild. So I think that might be my best-case scenario for Daniel Jones. Now, I want to ask you yours, and then I want to get into how we think that could happen. Yeah, so how I think it can happen though, I want to actually start there is Brian, right? So Brian Dable, look, I don't think the New York Giants are as built or as equipped realistically as the Detroit Lions. So can Daniel Jones still get to those high statistics, possibly? The Giants, they could be trailing in a lot of games and Daniel Jones can be throwing for a lot of touchdown passes. I think relying on the play action passing attack proved successful for the New York Giants in 2022. They were one of the most efficient play action passing teams through the first half of 2022, and that was when Brian Dable and the Giants were clicking on all cylinders. And then there was that lull and they started kind of getting it back when they faced Ed Donatell's defense and the Vikings down the stretch twice. But I don't think you necessarily have to just rely on the play action passing attack when you have a star like Malik neighbors. And this offense is transitioning into, I think, a little bit more of a pass-heavy approach away from the sake one bar where we need to get him 20 touches a game type of approach the Giants have essentially had since 2018. So do I think Daniel Jones can get to 30 touchdowns passing as a ceiling, a realistic ceiling? Yes, I do. I don't think that's too unreasonable. Do I think it's going to happen? I'm not overly optimistic, but with the skillset of Malik neighbors, with the possible ascension of Wandaell Robinson and the possible development of Jalen Hyatt, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that. Now, 4,500 yards is a lot of freaking yards and Jared Goff lets it rip a lot of the time. He's not nearly as hesitant as Daniel Jones has been in the past. And like I said, he has a better infrastructure, but still, I do think Daniel Jones ceiling is 42. I think he could get 43 as well. Now maybe later in the week, we're going to have a projection show where we go over, over, under again, Dan and I right now on this episode, we are talking about optimism. We are talking about ceiling in order for him to reach a ceiling. Now, we're going to need to see like 600 rushing yards again, 650 rushing yards again, and have that be a primary threat to allow the rushing attack to flourish because now you don't have sake. Juan Barkley. And I think if you have that dual threat of Daniel Jones and Devin Singletaria, Tyrone Tracy or Eric Gray, or whatever the hell you have back there with Daniel Jones keeping that backside pursuit defender in place, because every time they go into his own read, they have to account for Daniel Jones. I think that can really allow the rushing attack to have one less defender to worry about. And the rushing attack should just be better off the fact that there is an offensive line that can open up holes with Jermaine Alumador, John Runyon Jr., Greg Van Rotten, Andrew Thomas, and John Michael Schmitz. Expectations you laid out earlier, Dan, I think those are actually pretty solid for a ceiling. It's just, um, can he actually get there? And I think Brian Dabel is that catalyst, that, that person who can possibly, if everything goes well, allow Daniel Jones to reach his maximum ceiling, which is probably the numbers you've listed. Yeah. And we'll see if that happens. Now I like that yours is a bit bolder with 30 passing touchdowns as a possibility for a ceiling. And I'll say this, Nick, if Daniel Jones does hit 30 passing touchdowns, um, and would you say golf had what 35? Did you say for God? 30. He had 30. And that was considered very good season. Probably golf's best of his career, statistically speaking, um, even better than maybe that Rams year, they were more. But even this though, you got to like take it into account how those offenses are constructed. When you get into the 10 yard line, when you're the Detroit Lions, just run the football, run the football, run the football, most of those 30 touchdowns were outside of the 10 yard line. I don't know if the Giants going to be that successful running the football with this offensive line. Although I do believe the offensive line is a significant upgrade over anything we've seen recent memory with the New York Giants. So that could lead to more touchdown passes for Daniel Jones. And that's not saying Daniel Jones is more talented than Jared golf. That's more of a philosophical thing and, um, what the Detroit Lions have at their disposal, running the football is their identity. And they do it very well with the personnel they have. They do it very well within the red zone to the Lions. They're one of the most run heavy teams there and efficient wise. But to be fair, the Lions also, and I didn't know this, but I recently learned this during fanist football season, they scored the most points of any team in the NFL last year, believe it or not, on a per game basis. They were the most, they were the best offense in football last year. So obviously, you know, that's more scoring opportunities as well for golf. So maybe those things balance out Jones more pass having the red zone. But I think the 30 is, is, I don't want to, I don't know if I want to say possible, but I want to say from a ceiling standpoint, maybe Nick, but I will say this, I wanted to make this point. If he does hit 30 touchdowns passing, then those plays, and it's a tough play because it's a long shot play with people like Caleb Williams in the league and even Jaden Daniels. But if he hits 30 touchdowns passing, Jones, I think Malik neighbors becomes a very strong possibility for rookie of the year, because in my opinion, he's getting 13 to 15 of those touchdowns at minimum, half of those touchdowns. That's honestly how I feel about how it will play out, because just to be quite frank, neither Jalen Hyatt, Wandao Robinson, any of those tight ends or the running backs have proven to be big, big, big touchdown receiving threats right now, at least in their career. So I would think that about 50% of those, if not more, will go to Malik neighbors will be that funneled. So we'll talk about that in a moment. But as far as Jones goes and like reaching that ceiling, what does it take? I think you brought up a lot of the good points that it takes Nick, but the big one for me is going to be Jones himself, because I don't know if you call it the USC LSU game from last night. You get a chance to watch that. I was pretty damn impressed with both of those quarterbacks. And I'm going to say this about the double name guy, what is it? Miller Moss, the kid from USC. I love the double last name guy dudes. And also, what a funny, just a weird Miller Moss. And I hadn't watched him in the bowl game. I know some people had watched him last year. But one thing about him that really impressed me last night was just how dialed in he was to the system and to what Lincoln Riley was conceptually putting out there. If you just looked at the timing of a lot of his throws, the ball was out so quickly and on time and to a spot and leading the receiver and then hitting it pinpoint and stride. And it happened over and over and over again on that game winning drive, the touchdown drive before the game winning field goal drive. He had two whole shots, the touchdown, which was just basically handed it to the receiver over the right shoulder. And but before that was even more impressive, that whole shot he hit off that like RPO play that just the timing of that thing, man. So really for Jones to make this jump to hit the ceiling, I want to see him get a show a different level of timing within the passing game of Brian Dable scheme. And that means he has to understand like, because again, a lot of people think, oh, the online, if the online does its job, that's when the passing play absence. It's not always true in the NFL. And it's really the reality of the situation. You don't believe it. You've got to ask quarterbacks. You've got to ask coaches. You've got to ask analysts. Go watch the tape that we put out. A lot of the time it's on the quarterback to recognize this shit fast, understand where the space is and get the goddamn ball out on time to a spot. And on those plays, the old line doesn't matter. The past runs doesn't matter. There's no time for it to play a role in that play. And I'm not saying that happened a lot for the Giants. A lot of time last year, the play was blown up before it even started because the alarm was so bad. But that's the goal this year for that not to be the case, right? Like we expect a borderline, a baseline level of play from the offensive line that will allow the quarterback to do his thing. So to me, it's Jones taking that jump as a processor, Jones getting the ball out on time and really finding a new rhythm within this past game that we've never seen. I think it's possible, Nick. I really do believe that. I'm not saying it's likely, we're not talking about what's the most likely scenario. We're saying what's the best ceiling. And I know that Jones, I've seen him operate on time before. I know you have to. The Saints game. There's been times where he's been locked in within all three of these offenses. Turner's offense, Garrett's offense, and Dabel's offense. Like he's talking about the Vikings game against, you know, with Dabel's offense. And that was when you looked at it and you're like, wow, the ball is out on time. The placement is really good. He's not waiting for the receiver to get open. He's throwing it before the receiver's open. And we just want to see that on a consistent basis. But for him to reach these lofty goals, 30 touchdowns, maybe 4,100 passing yards, he's going to have to get the ball out on time consistently. Absolutely. That's the only way he hits his ceiling because that's one of the biggest drawbacks that Daniel Jones right now. He doesn't have the biggest arm in the world, but he has a functional NFL arm. Yeah, he's not the most accurate quarterback in the world. But I think it's the hesitancy that holds him back. It's the reluctance to fire the football. That's what holds Daniel Jones back. We've been saying it for about two years now, two and a half years at this point. You know, I don't want to keep beating this dead horse, but if we're talking about him reaching the ceiling, Dan, he has to rectify those issues. And hopefully that can come to him now three years into this system. I know he has a lot going on, too, because he's covered from the ACL. That's going to be on his mind, all of that. But he has that infrastructure around him finally. The offensive line should be a lot better. He has the star wide receiver. He has talented wide receivers and high in Wandao Robinson. Hopefully we can get some Theo Johnson and Daniel Bellander as receivers. That is in place right now. So just seize the day, avenge sevenfold style and make these defenses pay as best as you can. And hopefully that can result in a ceiling of about 30 passing touchdowns. I know that's very lofty. But if all of those things did come together, I think it's at least possible that that could be the ceiling of a quarterback like this. There's no reason why if this giant's offensive line can ascend to about 15 best in the NFL Nick, with this receiver core that you and I believe in based on what we've seen on tape, the strides high it's made as a route runner. And Wandao Robinson, anytime he's really been given an opportunity on film, plus obviously the neighbors, you don't even need to discuss because it's so obvious. There's no real reason this can't be a 30 passing touchdown offense, in my opinion, unless the old line screws up and I'm saying independent of the quarterback at this moment, just for the sake of this argument. And I'll say this, I'll say one more thing about this and then we're going to move to the table side of this and the play calling side of this. If you watch that game, I'm bringing it back to this USC LSU game. If you look at Mason, I'm calling him Mason Miller, the closer on the A's, if you look at Miller Moss, he's not really big Nick, doesn't have a huge frame, doesn't really have much mobility, doesn't really have a huge arm. So why was he able to kind of throw for 350 and carve up the defense with a game winning touchdown drive and then a game winning field goal drive with an amazing whole shot throw? It's because of his timing, it's because of his anticipation, it's all because of that, you can negate so much shit as a quarterback. If you just know where to go with the football, you get it out fast and you lead it into space instead of waiting for the receiver, you get open. It's worth everything. So the fact that you said, Nick, that Jones has struggled this for two and a half years, I'd make the case he struggled with his entire career as an NFL quarterback and his entire career as a college. I didn't say that he didn't. I know you're not saying that. Yeah, I know. I know. But I know a lot. We've been acknowledging it as a reality that yes, I'm not saying you, but I'm saying a lot of people have not made that case until recently and it's kind of been something. But you know, Jones is one of six quarterbacks in NFL history to start his first three seasons of an NFL career with a negative EPA. I saw this stat from Warren Sharp the other day. It was like Jones, four other busts in Sam Donald. And so it's not like this is something that just popped up in the able system and it's tricked him and he can't get the ball out fast or that, you know, Garrett kind of took it out of him. The Shermer year was very misremembered. It was a negative EPA year. He piled up stats against bad teams. This is something and then the Duke games you could just see it on film. This is something he has to literally take a step forward as a quarterback. That's what Nick and I have been saying. And this is why we really need to see it this year and you know, and this is it because obviously the weapons are in place, but I do think it's possible, man. I really do. Cause I've seen it from him. Just again, it's the little bits of it and we need like the long stretches of it. Yeah, we need a nice and long, nice long stretches from Daniel Jones. So you want to transition right now to Brian Dable and how Brian Dable could possibly allow Daniel Jones to access this as the play caller. We just got to go back to what Brian Dable was able to do in Buffalo with Josh Allen and Josh Allen. It's a different quarterback. We understand that, but he was able to open up that offense and find success through the passing attack through a variety of different rushing schemes, which we seen so far through training camp. And we also saw this back when he was the offense coordinator at Alabama, but also just how he was able to employ different personnel packages 10 personnel, he would throw out there. Obviously 11, but then you would have 12 and then even have the personnel for 12 personnel back then. It was really just Dawson Knox, who was their tight end. I think you can get a lot more creative when you have Chris Manhertz as a run blocker at your disposal when you have Daniel Bellinger and Theo Johnson and players of that ilk. So I'm excited to see how Brian Dable uses the chess match against defensive coordinators with his personnel package and how he looks to stretch the field vertically, which was the point of emphasis throughout all of training camp was we need to attack vertically. I don't think the Giants are going to go out there week one and just bomb it deep all of the time, but you know that is on the mind of Brian Dable. When those shots are available, you need to take those shots. And I think that has been drilled into the head of Daniel Jones. If you're comfortable with this one-on-one matchup, you have this elite wide receiver, this possible elite wide receiver right here, take that one-on-one shot and that's going to change how the defense plays you, which will open up space in the intermediate and the short areas of the field. Yeah, you nailed it, Nick. I think what's most exciting from a best-case scenario standpoint right now to us at least is the unknown or to end to most fans. I mean, it's the unknown because we don't know when a Brian Dable called offense is going to be. We know what his scheme is and obviously he worked with Mike Kafka, but this is first year calling the plays. We assume, by the way, it's not confirmed that Brian Dable will be calling the plays. Oh, I like that little quick group answer thing he got up there. How about this one? How about this one? Boom. Well, I'm with you. I'm with you. I kind of like that red. Remember, you're always a red jersey kind of guy, which I never thought we're at that. That one looks a little too bad. I like the other one better from the side. Yeah. I made a bunch of little sand. I don't want it to cut off your head or anything. And by the way, nice little five o'clock shadow thing you got going on right now. Man, yeah, I haven't shaved in a couple of days. I think you might consider going back to the beard as well. I know. I know. I know. It grows so quickly. So I'm just like, whenever I just want to retire the mustache, I got to shave the mustache first. I can't be walking around with like. Oh, more beard than much. Yeah. There needs to be a good beard, the mustache ratio or else you're right for the lasso. So I guess you'd have to go full shave first and look like your Twitter profile picture you haven't looked like in 17 years when you're in the military. I almost said, no, I was, I was 29 there in that picture. Yeah. I wasn't military. Yeah, I was coaching at that. It's a track though now. And you know, the some fans hate when we go off track and don't talk giants football. So let's get back to giants football. And I'll say this from my standpoint, that that's the unknown. The unknown is what will Brian Dable let offense be. But I'm just thinking about the advantages that this system has given the giants from a schematic standpoint in just the two year samples as we have the giants are not there. The right in the mix when it comes to play action rate, which is again, Jacob Gibbs and Scott Barrett did some great fantasy stats and numbers on this is all season. But essentially there's two cheat codes right now in the NFL. It's play action pass rate and it's pre snap motion and it's the usage of pre snap motion and the coordinators who do the best with that. These are two staples from the Kafka stage and table offense. They've been there forever. They're going to continue to be there forever. We saw Malik neighbors get an end around this preseason. That's going to continue. I like that too. A little second big movement or thing, but I don't want to get off track again. So we know those two staples, those who cheat codes are part of the offense to start. We've seen multitude like multiple use it, different run games, run schemes within this offense, more so in 2022, but we know it's there. We know he can scheme that up and we know that Carmbersillo, especially with the usage of a full back at times can get stuff going in the run game. So we have a multiple run game going. We may not have barked with multiple run game, but more importantly, again, I go back to some of those things I've seen that pre snap motion, the play action passing rates, the ability at times, both of them, at least more in 2022 to marry the past game to the run game, which I think if it's clicking this year on offense, that's going to happen. And I really do believe in what we've seen Nick, because look, you can say we're homers and we're looking at this with rose colored glasses because we're watching the tape of one team every week. And I do believe there is inherent bias when you're just watching only one tape and obviously you watch some other games on film I do for beyond the box or but it's one to three other teams a week maybe and that's usually a player or something for fantasy. But as far as just watching one team, you can get some biases, but with that said, dude, we also spent a lot of time watching Jason Garrett run an offense and you can see the clear cut start differences between the offense that Brian Dable ran and what Jason Garrett ran, even from the most simple things like pre snap motion. Every week we watch another offense though, right? We do get to watch one of us, like I watch like a ton of football, I can, you know, I understand what you're getting at when it comes to being biased, but you're right when it comes to the Jason Garrett, like we were saying every every week, dude, this offense is so stale, it does not allow the wide receivers or the past catchers to create yards after the catch puts Daniel Jones was a young quarterback at that time in this position where he has to do too much, which probably isn't the best. And it's also in this uber conservative offense where you need to rely so heavily on efficiency. That's not necessarily Brian Dable. I think Brian Dable understood that there was a lot of conservative nature to his offense over the last two years of the Johnson, he wants to open that shit up more. He wants to attack downfield and I'm hoping that the, that the upgrades along the offensive blind will allow him to do that much. Now let's revisit the marrying the run to the past because that is something that the best offensive coordinators and play callers do. I think my cap got did a good job at that, especially back in 2022. But in order to really maximize marrying the run with the past is you need to be able to run the football effectively. I think this offensive line is going to be able to do that. And I think Devin Singletary is a good enough running back to do that. Now if you can show this look, run the football, get four yards, five yards, and then hit that play action, hit that play action slide and be able to run a passing play off of the one look, then this offense can start to click and we'll see the offense matriculate the football down the field, right? But that's us saying that this offensive line is going to be able to block. I believe they will be able to, but there's also clues to suggest, and I know this is an optimistic episode, but there are clues to suggest that that might not be the case. I mean, we've had a center who has been hurt this basically entire training camp. We signed a 34 year old off the street and we're like, yeah, plug them in. He's going to be fine. I think he will be okay. I'm more optimistic than I thought I would be with that situation, but if week four comes around and the Giants average like 60, 70 yards rushing in those first three games, we're going to look back and be like JMS was hurt. He looks like crap out there. We signed a 34 year old Evan Neal wears he job. You know what I mean? So there are points of reservation there when it comes to the rushing attack. But if we're talking about the optimistic view of things and what I actually do think is plausible, I think they will be better than what we have seen and they giant should be able to run the football against average run defenses in the NFL. What do you think about that? I think they're okay. We'll get into this now. I'm going to then circle back to quickly to the play call and then do offensive line because that's a big discussion for us. But I have I'm actually at the point Nick where I'm more optimistic about the past blocking and the run blocking this year, which is not typical for most Giants fans at where they're at right now. I think the run blocking may not be what we wanted to be now. They could try to get diverse with their run scheme. Man hurts will help at times. They use a full back at all at times, but I'm not quite there yet with the run in JMS and I do like I actually weirdly feel the best about Van Rotten in the run game. Weird, right? And they just signed him off like the last two weeks like it's crazy, but like JMS run in. I'm not quite there yet. Andrew Thompson is going to be a bigger weapon than he's been in a while because he's healthy now in the run game than a Luminor. I'm not quite there yet. I'm more high on a Luminor as a pass blocker than a run blocker at this moment. Now, I think there's wrinkles they're going to add like I put post about this before that where we drop this podcast, I'm excited to see them use Evan Eel as the sixth offensive lineman this year. And I think if they don't do that, they're just losing money. That's printing money to put him on the fields that eligible, you know, tight end O line, whatever it's called. Put him next to Andrew Thomas and like watch him work a double team because I just went back and watch some of his clips from the Jets game. Again, like the past game, it is what it is. It was pretty damn good in the run game. Like there was a rep where he was a double team, but he really did a good job. I thought of just getting off the snap and driving using just his massive body. And like if you're next to Andrew Thomas, him, Neil and Thomas, I think you're going to be able to execute some really good goal line double team in a short yardage situation. So there's bits and pieces of the run game. And again, man hurts is a good example of what I like. But overall, I think the Giants might need to be a team that's going to be heavy past first this year. Heavy past first is going to be interesting and we could bring that back to Brian Dable. Now we talked a lot about Brian Dable. What we want to see, I think we're going to see a lot of that pre snap motion, a lot of given Malik neighbors, free releases off the line of scrimmage, especially in week one against Minnesota. We'll get into this a little bit later in the week when we bring a guest on to talk about the Minnesota Vikings, but they're not going to allow a step on Gilmore to get up in the face of the league neighbors, impress him to flee back in. Now if the Brian Flores who loves to run press, Brian Flores does a lot of unique stuff. I've already like watched Vikings film coming out with a piece on Big Blue View about it shortly. Brian Flores has been very progressive with how he is employing his blitz structures, how he's using zone coverage, how he's putting six guys on the line of scrimmage. Last year, I think the Vikings led the NFL in, they definitely led the NFL in blitzing, but they also led the NFL in three man rushes, which I felt was, very, very, you remember the game? I don't want to cut you off. No, you're good. You're good about this for a second. Do you remember the game? It was an island game either Thursday or Monday against San Fran, Minnesota San Fran last year Viking San Fran. I just remember that game being the best game plan I saw against Brock Purdy since Brock Purdy made it to the NFL. Okay. So this was the game where, yes, so I remember Brock Purdy was a three man rush actually in Brock Purdy was a stunt, tried to roll out to his left and then Daniel Hunter, I think it was just gobbled him up and the ball flew out. And I think Mattelis picked it up. I think it was a forced fumble. Right. And that hurts your point though, because like other coordinators who have the reputation of applying Brian Flores, great example, Martin Dale tried to disrupt Brock Purdy by blitzing him a lot. And it didn't work at all because Brock Purdy is actually so good of a processor that's a bad game plan. But Flores had a different game plan for Purdy and it worked really well. So Flores, well, I can't speak specifically to the Purdy points, I haven't watched that tape yet. But I know when it came to the differences between Flores and Wink Martin to last season, Flores used a lot more zone covered while crowd line of scrimmage, whereas Wink Martin Dale would try to run man. So that's a big difference when you're rushing six plus and then you're just going man or rushing six plus and then dropping into the zones in the shallow half while also confusing the protection. That's the similar point. That's a similar point about Martin Dale and Flores though, is they just try to manipulate the crap out of the protection package. You'll see like three offensive line and blocking some nobody and then a one-on-one matchup with Brian Burns or a one-on-one matchup with Dexter Lawrence. If this were obviously somebody coaching the Giants defense. So it's going to be interesting. I think there's going to be exploitable elements to Brian Flores defense, but this isn't the preview show. So we can circle back to Brian Dable. I do think Brian Dable is very adept at finding those differences though and exploiting those differences is just that are the Giants talented enough to seize the opportunity when those differences manifest, right? Because the coaches can put the players in the position to have success to succeed, but sometimes the players will always execute. I'm telling you now, we're going to see screens, we're going to see those tight end screens. We're going to be seeing some unique formations with 12 personnel against this team. I'm excited to watch week one, but I'm mostly excited to see how Brian Dable adapts to the Giants offensive personnel as the play caller while still being the head coach. I love it, Nick, because I know some people made a mountain out of a molehill. I think that's the correct way of, that's the correct phrasing. I'm usually way off on this, which is basically typical of like anything that goes on in Giants Twitter. It just turns from a molehill into a mountain, but you know, it made a big deal out of like the quarterback school, the JTO Solve, and Breakdown of the Giants preceding him in his next, and he did Daniel Jones film, and he was kind of getting hard on the offensive scheme. I was like, dude, it's in my head. I was like, it's freaking free season. Dable purposely is not showing anything here, like he's running the most vanilla stuff there is. And I know like what's his name over in Vegas, the court, the coordinator's name, their offensive coordinator was like, and people made a jokes about this, like he was scheming like crazy in the preseason for those quarterbacks, like trying to get them good looks, but like that's not what Dable has ever done as his coach. He takes the preseason very lightly for better or for worse. That's another argument. But my point being, I have seen years of tape of Dable's offense. I understand the concepts and I see them working for the Giants. They don't know the balls and always get there. The pressure breaks down some of these plays and takes away their possibility, but we've seen it on film Nick. And you know, even a simple thing, like I saw a tweet yesterday about like, you know, cheat code these days being like PA slide, post wheel, post wheel with the slide, that's like been the giant staple. And it's like a cheat code that a lot of NFL coordinators are now using because it's very true. Yeah. And it's something that we've been using since Dable got here. And it's just little things like that. Every time they show a chart with like the analytics dudes, it's like giants pass rate in neutral situations. They're second down besser. All these things are like advanced. They're good. They're where you want to be. Their giants are actually top eight on a chart or top 10 on a chart. So you know those charts that usually go around Twitter, it's like, just look to the bottom and there's the Giants or whoever it is talking about whatever player on the Giants. But like these are the ones they've been good in from a coaching standpoint. So I feel like the Dable Kafka situation, they're giving the Giants a true advantage from a schematic standpoint. And I don't think we're being homers about that. But who knows? Yeah. Well, at the wait and see, I want to see how he adjusts as well. I mean, every season you want to see how a coordinator is going to adjust by what the defense is doing. Last year I'm willing to give him a pass. People think, Oh, that's homerish, but it's like the personnel was so bad. Like Marcus McEthan was your starting guard. Josh is who was your starting left tackle? You had to sign Justin Pugh off the street like there was a lot and Justin Pugh was one of their best offers of Lyman too. There were a lot of issues with last year's team, but in 2022 we did see some, I, I believe some, um, unique adjustments to take advantage of defenses. And a lot of them was just kind of simple though too, especially in that middle chunk of the season was just like, run the football stupid. They can't stop you. So they just gave them all the sake while Barkley 36 times against the Texans. Now I want to see something a little bit more innovative than that when their, when their backs are pressed against the wall, but now that they have better football players, I'm hoping that that can actually occur when, when the situation dictates. And that'll happen by the way. Like coaches are not stupid. They were trying to coach to win the games. Like in that Texans game, the game flow was obvious. The Texans could not move the boy was it Davis Mills at that point or what? I think it was like another. It's Davis Mill. Like the Texans cannot move the ball. Why are we going to throw it? Let's just give it to Barkley. They had one big play. It was that slate and play where just slate and like housed it from 52 and that was like all they needed to win that football game. And so we'll still see that, obviously, if the Giants even's playing the way it could possibly play. Ryan Reynolds here for, I guess, my hundredth mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Honestly, when I started this, I thought I only had to do like four of these. I mean, it's unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month. How are there still people paying two or three times that much? I'm sorry, I shouldn't be victim blaming here. Give it a try at midmobile.com/save, whenever you're ready. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month, new customers on first three month plan only, taxes and fees extra, speed slower above $40 gigabyte. This episode is brought to you by Microsoft Azure, turn your ideas into reality with an Azure free account. Get everything you need to develop apps across cloud and hybrid environments, scale workloads, create cloud connected mobile experiences and so much more. Discover what you can create with popular services free for 12 months. Learn more at azure.com. That's azure.com and sign up for a free account to start building in the cloud today. What's up big blue banter listeners? I love a great deal as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to crawl through a bed of hot colds just to save a few bucks. It has to be easy, no hoops, no BS. So when midmobile said it was easy to get wireless for $15 a month with the purchase of a three month plan, I called them on it. Turns out, it really is that easy to get wireless for $15 a month. And all of midmobile plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any midmobile plan and bring your phone number along with all of your existing contacts. To get this new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to midmobile.com/bbb. That's midmobile.com/bbb. Cut your wireless built to $15 a month at midmobile.com/bbb. Put it back on payment require, put it to $15 a month. New customers on first three month plan only. Speed slower, before you get the back on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. It's even mobile for details. Well, let's move to the offensive line now. Okay, so here's the tip. I'll set it to stage. Here's the Giants offensive line. Okay, we're going into this here with aluminum or instead of Neil at right tackle. Runyon, instead of Ben Predison, who beat out Josh Azud, or I think Azud was earned, whatever the situation was. I don't even remember. It was so sad. Last year, Ben Predison, who let's be honest. I know he might start for Tampa this year. I don't really consider him to be a starting NFL player. He was okay at times, but some of that film was not great. Unfortunately, he was one of the better Giants offensive line. Sad. That's not a compliment though. That's not a compliment. Right. And then the other side, which I'm now forgetting. It was just as -- oh, God, it was Mark Lewinsky to start the year. It's like, with that interior offensive line, there's just such a low ceiling in my mind at least. Lewinsky, an older vet, Predison, a maxed out player. JMS is still back at center. But the difference between having runyon and Ben wrote in there within this offensive scheme. I know it sounds crazy. We're talking about two guys that were like, you know, one was a mid-tier free agent signing. The other was a end of free agency kind of signing. But man, it's just so much more difficult for me to not find projection upside in that projection. In addition to obviously having a Luminor at right tackle who's already looked pretty competent, both in his time last season over a long sample size of the Raiders, year before that, and then this preseason and training camp, a healthy Andrew Thomas, who designs only had for one -- oh, sorry, one series last year, one frickin series, better offensive line coach, and then a little bit of a steady drum beat. This is the stage. Training camp, things started out pretty good. Join practices, things started out that continued pretty good. Pre-season, until that final game, which was just not their starters, things looked pretty good. So that's the stage. That's the foundation. Now, obviously there's downside, but I want you to talk to the outside. Yeah, so the downside is just where the New York Giants, we covered the New York Giants and the Giants have seemingly upgraded their offensive line in the past and then it just blew up in their face now. It's hard for me to look at the Giants 2024 offensive line, and go back and look at the 2023 offensive line and not realistically say every position was upgraded. Andrew Thomas, hopefully. Now, obviously he's healthy, has another year under his belt, JMS, another year under his belt, and then Runyon, Aluminaur, and Van Rotten are all an upgrade over all the players that the Giants started in 2023. So you've upgraded across the board. I think it was what? Like Mark Lewinsky, I think, surrendered eight pressures in week one, and Evan Neal surrendered nine. So you're talking about like 17 pressures just from the right side, from the right side of Daniel Jones's line against the Dallas Cowboys in week one last season. So it's difficult to not be an upgrade when you poured assets into that offensive line. Now, how much of an upgrade will it be over the 2022 offensive line and how they played in 2022? I think it's still going to be a significant upgrade because we were excited about Evan Neal. We thought there were going to be rookie bumps. There were. We didn't think it would be probably as catastrophically bad as it was in 2022. Mark Lewinsky was Mark Lewinsky wasn't anything great, better as a run blocker than he was a pass protector. But again, man, if we're talking about upside here, it's just give your quarterback two and a half seconds to throw the football and allow him to step up in the pocket, stop the twist game from going into the interior parts of the pocket and allow Daniel Jones's eyes to focus downfield rather than at pressure coming at him. Just act as a wall for long enough to allow me to get rid of the football or step up and run. If you have to surrender sacks, keep it below three in a game, you know, like if it has to come down to that, make sure that the Giants are upholding the integrity of a damn pocket. Because that's something that the Giants haven't done and God knows how long at this point. And I think the integrity of the pocket starts in the interior. I've always been a believer in that. That's something I remember during the Eli Manning days and years. They would always talk and listen to Kevin, go over and you'd be like, look for this type of quarterback. And it really goes for all quarterbacks. The integrity of the interior offensive line is actually the most important thing because a great quarterback, Nick, and this again is our best case scenario. We're expecting Jones to get there or saying in this scenario, he does a great quarterback can navigate exterior pressure, but no quarterback can navigate interior pressure disrupts every single play. It forced you to roll right, cut off half the field and the play is almost always dead at that point, except for the really special quarterbacks, like the Moam's types. So that's the key there. Now I'll say this. I'll ask you to put a number on both things. The first being in the best case scenario is Brian Dable. You could just go yes or no on this. A top five play caller this year. No. I'm saying yes. I do honestly believe that in the best case. Now there's obviously a lot of guys, McDaniel, Shanahan. So maybe it's in that, but I think he could be right up there with them. I've seen it from the, from the day we watched with Buffalo. I even felt like at times, you know, during that stage with Buffalo, Josh Allen wasn't as where he needed to be yet as a quarterback. There were times where I felt like Dave will bail him out a little bit. Obviously he's progressed as a quarterback since then. Those, some people think he's kind of regressing. I don't agree with those people. I just think they don't understand like how difficult it is to play quarterback at times and like what he's doing is really good. But I think he can get to that level. So I think like, you know, we're talking about, and of course this would be dependent on Daniel Jones. Like that's what we're dealing to. It's the ceiling. Right. It's the best case scenario because we've, I've seen it with, with Josh Allen. That was the best case scenario. But of course, Brian Dable is not going to look like a good play call if Daniel Jones is not moving his eyes and not getting the ball out on time and throwing with anticipation. No one can look good as a play call if your quarterback isn't throwing with anticipation. But what would your, oh sorry, go ahead. I was going to say one of the reasons why I said no so emphatically. It's not disrespectful towards Dable. It's just, there are so many good play callers. Like anybody from the Shanahan tree, you have the Zach Taylor, Sean McVay tree. You have Andy. So there's just, there's just a lot. And I think there's a lot of my respect more than others, by the way. I don't really respect that at all. No, no, no, I get it. But like he comes from the Sean McVay tree, right? And then you'll have Callahan who's now with the Titans. I'm wondering how he's going to, I'm not putting him in that conversation. There's a lot of young coordinators who I'm excited about. Slow it. We saw what he did with the Texans. I think Ben Grubb up in Seattle could be a real surprise. So that's more so the reason why, but you can like name five off the bat with McDaniel, a Shanahan, McVay, read the floor, kind of go right through the floor. Like there's a lot, dude. Well, the floor double Jordan love last year was absolutely phenomenal to watch. When people have shown me breakdowns and I watched the Giants game and a few others. Like that was a quarterback who had a very limited NFL starts. And to the, this, this ties into the table and the offensive line. And we kind of touched on this, but I just kind of want to flat out say it. And I'm not equivocating here. I wasn't equivocating before. I just, I just want to be blunt about it. I want the protections to be sent. That's something that we need. We took what we brought up. Hey, keep the integrity of the pocket intact, pick up twists, pick up stunts. Make sure those running backs are where they need to be. Those tight ends are where they need to be when you're in six, seven man protections. There are times where the Giants went into seven man protections, eight man protections with two routes running. Now, was that a product of the offensive line? Was that just the play call? It's probably a product of the offensive line a little bit more than just the play call. But I want those protections to account for what the defense is trying to do and not have these free rushes running directly in at Daniel Jones. Now, we haven't seen a ton of that. A lot of the times you get a free rusher. Last year, Evan, you'll got blamed for one against, or no, no, Daniel Jones. No, Daniel Jones got blamed for not accounting for an edge rusher that Miami sent him, but it was just Evan Neal not getting the call. I remember because you saw like all the offensive line and patting themselves in the ass and Evan Neal just didn't take the guy that he was supposed to take. I don't think that happens sometimes. It was just a miscommunication in a road game. But last year was more so guys just getting beat so badly. So I don't think Gable or the Giants offense has been terrible at accounting for these blitzes, but I want that to be really secure this season to really have the protection of the New York Giants be solidified so Daniel Jones can operate to his ceiling. You're right because we've seen too many games where the Giants can't pick up a stunt or there's issues from a communication standpoint. And I will say this as far as steady Trump beats go Nick, the communication looked a lot better this preseason and training camp and joint practices. It looked like they've been terrible, not to cut you off, but that was really like the free rushes, but the stunts have been absolutely terrible. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you're saying. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Like the DB coming in like I want that tackle to or have the one back at the end point. Yeah. Yeah. To me that it's tough because you don't know like I remember we know one really knows truly whose responsibility that is I feel like at least from our standpoint like depends on the offensive line call. Yeah. Depends on the offensive line call. Also, some offenses are reliant on the quarterback setting those types of protections and understand that. But others are reliant on the center. I know the Giants. My Kafka said this in one of those Twitter spaces last year. That's obviously is like the center calls the productions for this offense. So you know, that's you know, it's it's a lot of moving factors there. But agree. It always comes down to coach like the coach to do that. And to coach me. Right. The coach. Get these players. Exactly. Great point. It's on the coach to get them in a position where that's not an issue. And then when you're on the field, it comes down to the center or the quarterback. But it's on the coach to put that player in a position to have success. Excellent point. And that's something maybe they're not saying we've overlooked, but just something that is on his plate that he has to also do a good job of table. Now, I'm going to ask you put a number then on and move the conversation to the skilled players and then wrap up for offense. I'm going to ask you put a number on the offensive line and obviously like we're not talking like, what's the PFF rating at the end of the year? Like, I don't give a shit about that. But like generally speaking, what you'll feel about it, what I'll feel about it because like we can straight up tell you last year, we felt like this team was 31, 32 or 30 on the offensive line. The year before maybe 22, maybe 23 in 22, generous, that's being pretty generous. Now what will be our overall feel for a ceiling of what this offensive line can be? Thing 12, I think, I think realistic, you're talking about 16th, I think is fine. But I think there's, look man, the giant, like people want to be very negative and I completely understand that. But the Giants have one of the best left tackles. That's one of the most important. Oh, it's poor and the Giants have one of the best ones and you drafted a center in the second round. Now it doesn't seem too optimistic right now with the injury, but he's a talented enough player that Giants believed in and they added a bunch of assets. And even if they suffer injuries, you have competent contingency plans. So 10th could be a ceiling that I don't even think is completely outlandish or unreasonable, but I'm going to settle in at 12 and that would be a massive difference from anything we've seen recently. I'm going to say, yeah, I'm going to say 12 is a good number. I think I'm trying, I was trying to think of my head while you, but it's like, maybe I could have done this before the podcast. That's a mistake. We can run through it right now. Is there any chance the Giants can be better than the Eagles often slide? No. No. Dallas. I'm going to say. Full healthy, obviously, fully healthy. Yeah, fully healthy, both sides. Yeah. Dallas knows that's two teams. Washington, they can easily beat out. Green Bay. I'm going to say, no, I like that a line, but it's up to you. I think there's a chance. But yeah, there's an underrated offer now for sure. Keep them off for now. Chicago, they can beat out lions. No chance. Vikings. They can, can they beat out Vikings? Vikings have a separate way of good offensive line. Right now. I think you could. If you're talking about ceiling ceiling. Yeah. So, so, oh no, we don't include them. Okay. Vikings. I know. That's a really good old line. I'm going to say no. I'm talking. I'm going to put them in a no category. Bucks. They can beat out. Bucks have had injuries. They do have worse. It's a very similar situation. I think it's a better off of the line than last season because they've drafted Graham Barton. I think they made a couple of additions. Yes. But I'm still possible from a ceiling standpoint. So, that's four teams that are impossible so far. Carolina, they can obviously beat out, and then Saints, they can obviously beat out. Seattle, they can beat out. San Fran. It's such a weird one because it's so scheme based, I feel like they don't even have that they could have an alignment. I'm going to say no with Trent Williams plays, but that's a, you know, a seat point. What's going on there? The rest of their line has been just like getting worse and worse and worse throughout the years though. Like, yeah, I'll give that. I'm going to say one between the Rams and them because the Rams align is wildly underrated right now. Especially within that scheme. So, I'm going to say one there five moving on to the other thing, the Jets, that could go downhill, but I think the Jets are going to be actually a good old line here. I'm not going to put them because they go downhill, Dolphins know, even though the scheme hides at a lot of time, Bills, they can beat out the Bills, the Bills, that's not an elite old line. Patriots, obviously. Then you get to the next conference, the Ravens aligns actually got a lot of doubters this year. I think they could be better in a ceiling. I mean, better than the Steelers often climb, which has been horrible this preseason even though the Drafts have a ton of talent, Bengals, they can be better than, Bengals online wasn't that good last year. Browns, I'm going to say no, that's 16. Okay. Next division, Houston. They can be better than Indianapolis. They can be better than Jacksonville. They can be better than Tennessee. They can be better than, even though some of them have talent, blah, blah, blah. Houston's talented. Yeah. But they can still be better in a ceiling scenario, Giants, that's six chiefs. I would say they're going to be better. Almost no matter what. They have so much that old line is unreal. Create home for age, right? It's just across the board, even though they have some warts at tackle still. Finally the Raiders and then the Chargers, they can be better than both. So there's really, really 70 realistically, like the ceiling scenario is if everything clicks, they could be, you know, an eighth, ninth best old line. If Carman Bursil, if Carman Bursil can be significantly better than Bobby Johnson, I'm like, I'm not saying he's going to, but if Carman Bursil can just do what he did last year, but with working with a lot more talent than he did with the Raiders, he's got two of his glues already in Van Rodden in the Luminor. He didn't have Andrew Thomas last year. And Colton Miller is an okay, pretty good player. He's not an Thomas level. He's nowhere near in Johnson and run in JMS should be better than what he had there. So like, and that was like what? The Raiders were like the 13th, 14th, 12th best old line last year, probably. So I do think it's possible and it's crazy to say as a Giants fan, but I do feel like the ceiling is maybe a little higher than even we expect and maybe than it's ever been. It just sounds wrong to say. It sounds so humorous. It does. Now, that's a great point. That's a great point you made, especially about Bursil, and I mean, the Raiders offensive line has outperformed expectations before the season expectations. Two years in a row, especially last season. So it's plausible they could do that same thing here with the young town. That Bursillo is now working with along with Jermaine Luminor and Greg Van Rotten coming over. Throw Jakum Johnson in there too. That guy's getting cut and pulled to the practice squad and put up on the active roster and cut again. That's them a lot. They've really mentioned the Adore Jackson signing on the podcast yet. We're going to talk about the defensive podcast a lot. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're saving that for. Let's go. Let's go positions. Then we'll wrap up and we're going to go all three of them individually. Let's start with running backs, probably the least bullish we're going to be. But we're still going to talk about our ceiling scenario for the running backs. So you give me yours and I'll get into mine. Yeah. Sealing scenario is just the running back by committee is better than the workhorse back because there's going to be fresher legs out there for Devin Singletary and Tyrone Tracy Jr. And I think Tyrone Tracy Jr. being a true difference maker on offense is something that the giants have not had. Now, obviously, take one, Barkley was a true difference maker. But we're assuming that Tracy is the one V. He is a separate entity, the Devin Singletary. It's been all Sigmund Barkley. Now you have Tracy and you have that skill set and you have those receiving skills coming out of the backfield. If you look at the advanced metrics on Devin Singletary and Sigmund Barkley, he's beating Sigmund Barkley in some of those statistics. Now, I think some of them are unfair with the situation that Singletary was in and the situation that Sigmund Barkley was in and Sigmund Barkley is more talented player than Devin Singletary. I think collectively, you can use these different skill sets to your advantage. And then he throw Eric Gray in there, whatever he can offer the offense as well. So if we're talking about sealing, I think it's going to be something where you have just the slippery, decisive, nuanced nature of Devin Singletary and the explosive, athletic, mismatched nightmare of Tyrone Tracy being used by Brian Dable behind an offensive line that can run block efficiently and effectively. So that would be where I'm at there and I don't know if you want me to put a number on like rushing yards, but just allow the offense to be capable enough to run the football so you can attack defenses with the play action passing attack and not allow them. And Malik Neighbors will not allow your offense to have these seven eight man boxes because there's going to be a lot of too high cloud coverage over the top of him. So I think that will also assist this rushing attack and the quote unquote downgrade that the Giants have. Not a safe one. Barkley's not a giant. I think you said it best, Nick, for a Brian Dable offense. This doesn't go for every offense, obviously Ben Johnson, Kyle Shannon or different examples, Mike McDaniel. But for a Brian Dable offense to operate its force, the run opens up the pass game. So what you said is true, be efficient enough in the run game that it can allow you to do what you want to do in the passing game. But for me, the ceiling is more individual because I look at the NFL and out of all the positions with the exception of maybe interior defensive line. And I have to look back to see if this is even true. There's no position that can break out. And I mean, break the F out at the NFL level like this with a snap of your fingers over the years as this running back position. It doesn't matter where some of these guys were drafted because you can look throughout NFL history over the last 10, 15 years and obviously they don't always stay great for a while. Some of these guys fizzle out. That goes for every running back. By the way, only the truly elite special hall famers, the ones who have those 10, 15 years careers at that position, especially as we get, you know, more into the 2020s and the 2024 range. But for that, the breakout, like I think Tyrone Tracy could this year, we're talking about a guy who was a best forceman stack or a fourth best in yards after contact per attempt, learning how to play the running back position. If he breaks out, that also means he's now a weapon in your passing game. You can scheme him open against linebackers, you can scheme him against man coverage. You can use as a pre snap motion weapon, someone who has to be eye candy for the defense. And this is a guy who's big. He's fast. It's explosive. He's elusive. He has really good feet in the tackle box. This is the ceiling for me. The ceiling for me is it becomes a 60 40 because I think Devin Singletary is still very underage on tape. Like they broke down in hard knocks. He's a really good inside runner. He understands space. He understands how to set up his block and understand how to get those tough yards and make people miss in a phone booth. The run he had against Houston. That was one of the really one of my favorite runs I've seen on tape for a while because he really set that linebacker up before it even happened. His mind worked fast. But man, that's cool and all but if Tracy gets going to where he could from the physical overwhelming standpoint he is and what he becomes as a mismatch for your offense. Again, pre snap motion, get him matched up in the pass a pass receiver in one on one. That's when now you're talking about a totally different level because I'm not going to say this and it's going to piss people off and I'm going to say it anyway, Nick. Going to do it anyway. I think Tyrone Tracy and I don't think it's really a stretch or anything has a lot more upside as a schematic pass game weapon than Saquan Barkley ever did. I mean route runner. Yeah, exactly. There comes the idiot because Barkley's been touted as an amazing receiver and I think he is special when he gets the ball in his hands as a receiver. But as a route runner, I've seen it sometimes the Chargers game when Glennon was there and he ran that little stutter go like there's been moments of it. But I think Tracy has a little bit more upside sharp cuts as a receiver and just understanding angles in space if he's mashed up in those one on ones and that's what gets me excited. What does Brian Dable do frequently when he wants to just confuse the defense see what they're in. He'll come out slow paced out of the huddle empty to start. Line backer follows the running back all the way outside the numbers. We saw this a lot with Saquan Barkley Tyrone Tracy was a wide receiver from what four seasons at Iowa three seasons at Iowa one at Purdue whatever it was okay now he's going to be out there with a line backer. There's going to be teams and we've been saying this all off season but I'll repeat myself and be redundant. There's going to be teams that are going to have linebackers out there that probably can't cover a former wide receiver who is athletically talented and gifted as Tyrone Tracy outside the numbers and I think that's going to give the Giants a little bit of an advantage when you have Malik neighbors outside the numbers on your right Tyrone Tracy outside your numbers on your left. If you have empty there's only going to be a five man protection but you might be able to exploit that outside the numbers the width of the field right. So I think that's going to give you a lot of options and you're going to see screens they're going to see quick little routes from the wide receiver position and also you could also just motion him back and leave him in protection or hand the football off to him but it gives you options because you actually have a real threat who can be a receiver or who can exploit defenses with his receiving skills and not like like I think Saquan was fine at it but I don't think that was his natural gift. I think this is going to be much more natural for a player like Tyrone Tracy because he has so much experience doing it. You could just go back through tape I know it's hard going back and watching Iowa college tape. There's a little rough there but you could see how talented he was when he was a wide receiver there when they actually were able to complete passes to him. Yeah and so my ceiling scenario Nick is that it's that I respect Devin Singletary and what he offers as a runner but I also know that Tracy offers them more schematic diversity and Tracy puts the defensive coordinator in a much tougher spot when he's on the field because you can do what you just said. Motion him out motion him in put him in priest that motion get him to become more eye candy and I'm not positive defensive coordinators do you Devin Singletary is that or ever really will. That's not a knock on him that's just a reality of his situation. So that's the exciting ceiling for me it's Tyrone Tracy taking over about 60% of the workload at the running back position in year one. You could say that's crazy because he's a rookie but we see this literally happen at the running back position all the time. Let's get to wide receivers and then we'll finish with tight ends. Gimme you know we can talk stats you know I don't know what you want to talk but just gimme kind of and I'll say this before I ask you for your ceiling or very you know best case scenario. A lot of people are down you'd be surprised a lot of people are down and find the Giants wide receiver room overrated they're like oh it's basically just neighbors nothing. A lot of people just don't really have any thoughts of optimism when it comes not saying Giants fans by the way I'm saying like people around not around the team on Hyatt or Wanda a lot because look the stats weren't there last year the production wasn't there last year. What is your take on this situation? I think the Giants wide receiver core is a little bit underrated look the Giants had a piss poor offensive line last year we all know that there are reservations but at the quarterback position and also the wide receiver suck like a lot of these things are married together we're well aware of that we discuss it often on this podcast. Those are two very young wide receivers one of them tore his ACL and wasn't a hundred percent when he returned last year watch Wanda Robinson when you get the football on his hands he's gone dude guys quick is lightning is he ever gonna be an ex wide no is he a very critical role player in your offense can he be absolutely Jalen Hyatt we've certainly seen development in his route running and his abilities create separation after his stem and then after his break through training camp can that translate the Sunday we'll have to wait and see but it definitely seems like he is primed to take a year one to two jump if Daniel Jones can get him the football especially since he's going to be seeing a lot of single coverage with Malik neighbors there so I think Malik neighbors acts as the fulcrum of this wide receiver room and as going to open up opportunity for other talented wide receivers one of them happens to be one Dale the other one happens to be Hyatt and then there's the other name that we never really mention who consistently produces respectable numbers and that's Darius Layton so I think that was for wide receivers that's you could do a lot worse than those four wide receivers so I think it's um I don't think it's like a top five wide receiver core or anything like that but I don't I don't know what these detractors are saying necessarily I haven't really heard much of it but uh I think it's definitely has a ton of upside and there's a lot of development there that can take place that I think we saw in their college tape that suggests that there's a reason to buy in to their ceiling and I think the ceiling is high with this wide receiver core it's two day two picks a top six overall pick and you know Darius Layton who's a proven NFL vet and just look at a preseason game so Layton got open caught the one bomb of the preseason from Daniel Jones last year to end the year Darius Layton 70 yard touchdown pass from Tyra Taylor in week 17 week uh is it 18 now 18 is the final game week 18 week 17 a 65 yard touchdown look at the separation rates at advanced analytics Darius Layton is always near the top in separation rate because he gets open on tape yeah I mean the Giants easily have the second best wide receiver core in this division easily I would easily it's not even a conversation to meet out Philly but it's easily the second best yeah exactly I mean Philadelphia they have a bunch of riches over there but if you we're not gonna go through the teams again and do all that but if we kind of run but we don't have to but it is kind of fun and I kind of would be interested in it but it's just gonna take too long so we don't have to do it again but it is interesting I would like to see how I actually think about them versus the rest of the NFL maybe another time they can do it down like a separate episode but I will say yeah I will say this though there's other things that get me excited about the ceiling of this wide receiver group it's that Darius Layton again great analytics great on tape Jalen Hyatt like show me stuff his rookie year that I know some of the stuff you you were hot you were more in tune to it on his college safe than I was but the ability to kind of like high point the football and catch away from his frame that had me really excited the catch he made against the bills on that fourth and seven from Tyron where he's coming over the middle and he takes a rocket shot to the ribs and he holds on to the football to convert that force down that's like a shit that I'm like okay this kid can do it then when he has this facial awareness to always tap his toes in on those throws outside of frame by the sideline I mean these are things that are like okay look I knew he was a speed sir I knew he was gonna be good on the vertical plane because he's a great tracker of the ball in the air but these are other areas and then you look at training camp this year and he's starting to improve is a route runner his play strengths could be up like that's the thing for him and then Wanda it just goes out saying the film has always been there for him is just can they get him the football in space and that's something they've done sometimes good and sometimes not so well yeah and Wanda Robinson also has like 0 percentile arm length 0 percentile wingspan his catch radius is very limited so from that standpoint he's not going to be like reaching out away from his frame and plucking footballs two feet over his head it's probably not going to be something we're going to see too much from Wandao Robinson but Wanda Robinson you get him the football he's a difference maker and I think we're going to realize that if this offense is functional enough so I buy into this receiving core and Malik neighbors again is the fulcrum he is what's going to make this receiving core click and I think if he's as good as we believe the ceiling is I think he like again I think I said in an earlier episode I think he could set targets receiving I think he could set a lot of rookie records this year I think the the reception record was set by Pooka Nakua last year and that was 105 receptions it was set by Garrett Wilson the year prior that would have been targets actually but yeah Pooka Nakua had 105 catches almost 1500 yards six touchdowns last year I think Malik neighbors could get to that if this offense is functional the offensive line holds up if Daniel Jones is pulling the trigger if Malik neighbors is healthy right so look at some of these receivers though in recent memory Pooka Garrett Wilson Jamar Chase Justin Jefferson like Jamar Chase when 81 14 55 and 13 in 2021 can Malik neighbors do that that's a lot is he talented enough to do that I think possibly and honestly I think he's going to have more catches than 81 I think he would be more of a get I think he's I think he has the ability to get 100 catches this year I don't know if it will happen but oh I'd be shocked if he doesn't get 100 catches that's or I'm at yeah I mean I wouldn't bet it because of injuries and all of that oh yeah yeah that's you but I'm I'm in that same conversation I was my bold take was he was gonna set all those rookie records but I think he's very talented enough and he's in a situation where who the hell stealing his target share like we like Hyatt and Wanda but there's a clear two and three in this also they designed the offense around like neighbors not like one exactly right it around Joe Burr offenses or something it's not no sake one is not here anymore there's a new identity a new philosophy here in New York and it's centralized around Malik neighbors that's why for fantasy purposes I know people don't like to hear about fantasy but like the fact that he's going on like a fifth round the beginning of the fifth round he's up to like the third fourth and sharp draft I was in a draft that he went he I mean I've gotten a lot of places and home leagues like it's he's to be fair Nick plays with some not so sharp people in his home you know someone have listed or this bro and they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna have to take they're gonna have to swallow that medicine though cuz I've seen some of the trades they've made with you and trust me I've been privy to that information so that's on you guys you gotta figure something out you can't be going in the fifth round like some of this stop Nick like yeah no I think it was the back end of the floor and I had him in like a bunch of other leagues so I actually went with somebody else I really liked it's not like diverse not my portfolio a little bit but yeah no I always try to get my league neighbors cuz again the offense is gonna be centralized around him the ceiling is exactly you couldn't worry about the target share if me neighbors was on the chiefs or the the bangles in my opinion cuz they have quarterbacks who are just scanning the field and doing great yeah this is gonna be look Jones everything Brian Dables ever done with Daniel Jones has been simplify this shit for this dude don't make him go through a million progressions it's gonna be very simple if league neighbors as a one-on-one get him the football it's also gonna be very simple if we can design clear out routes again we neighbors underneath space get him the football those are two ways to get him the football right away when skill set coincides with opportunity that's what leads to fantasy points and that's what leads to production and people act as if Daniel Jones is Zach Wilson Daniel Jones is not Zach Wilson Daniel Jones is a functional enough NFL quarterback to operate an offense but is that going to win you a Super Bowl consistently or have you competing for Super Bowls consistently that's the conversation that people don't like to have or that's where the contentious nature is surrounding Daniel Jones but he's not Zach Wilson what are we talking about here no no and that's why you know some people have used that the reason Nick brings that up because in from a fantasy standpoint we will use that argument to say look Gary Wilson had the target share Gary Wilson of the targets but he still finished YRC for 28 and that's because of Zach Wilson and Trevor Simeon who shouldn't even be in the NFL like literally should not be playing in the NFL Trevor Simeon no no offense to the dude but he doesn't have arm talent at all Daniel Jones is arm talent okay like Daniel Jones is a functional quarterback who can get in the football more importantly I think Daniel Jones is literally gonna just funnel that shit to league neighbors in which case again I saw we'll wrap up here on receivers and we can then talk a little tight ends but I saw a clip from jet pack L.A.O. you know he is he's like a film guy on Twitter you would like his stuff he does good film stuff and he just was like there was nothing like watching prime Odell Beckham Jr. run the slant and I watched the cut up yeah and my guy some of those some of the some of the angles that Odell would eat up in space after the catch it made me think about this Nick when we first got into our pre draft mode and we were like March and one of the first things we did was a film evaluation of Malik neighbors you're like man I don't like to helmet scout but I just it looks so reminds me so much of somebody else I watched at LSU and it's like yeah dude after the catch he is a lot like Odell Beckham Jr. Malik neighbors he eats up angles he eliminates space that is not there and he makes safeties and debax looks stupid all the time yes yes 100% and the one thing that we've seen through training camp in preseason so far that I don't think we doubted but I don't think I realized how good he actually was at it was how strong he is at the catch point like I knew he was strong at the catch point but damn like look everything he's shown through preseason and through training camp I'm like dude this guy's like elite at the catch point because a lot of time that LSU it was him making people miss and it was very tough after the catch and it was him you know making very nice body adjustments and catching the ball and winning some 50-50s but he even had a ton of 50-50s but in training camp he's had a ton of 50-50s and he's come down with geez like he's stuck on him 80-20s man because he's coming down with 80% of them and that's the thing because we a lot of them we went over like and we were always neighbors over at Dunes A on this podcast from the very start it was just like this is a dance in our player and I was like yeah and it's also a Nick Philado player like you like this type of style too absolutely and and I you know and one of the things we said though was like one area Romo Dunes A has his look the 75% contestant catch rate but it was also an example of what we always talk about with scouting and when we bring these players and like just because a player hasn't done something on film that we've seen doesn't mean he can't it just means he didn't have the opportunity to do it and we won't know if he can till we get the NFL and we now know he can't it's not just training camp it's not just the joint practices it was that Texans preceding game he made some insane insane catches dude at the catch point like body control concentration toughness through the catch point these are all areas of his game that like if you had said during the pre draft process he was a lead at that like maybe I'll make this I'll say this I'll end it on this up for the receivers if he had put all those catches on film like he put like let's say we could have extrapolated all the catches crazy catch he made against the Texans in a half of a preseason game to his college career they may have put him over Harrison they honestly may have put him over a lot of people did a lot of people still did but they may and Harrison's such a good prospect so it's not yeah that's because you're not good it's because Marvin Harrison was in your class like they may have put him over him dude because then it's like what is his like what's drops are like at that point like some concentration drops which he occasionally has are like the only knock at that point yeah and he's just not like massively sized yeah six foot right like Marvin Harrison's like six four so it's uh you have that physical advantage over many cornerbacks the neighbors has a cause of his athletic ability and his ability to leap but he did he's not massively bigger than a lot of these cornerbacks we're going to be covering him his offense is so much better position for this year with neighbors on this team oh it's critical last year it's not like no running back could ever do this for me no running back could ever make me think like you could be like oh we got Bijon Robinson it's like no I wouldn't be that excited for the offense if I could trade Malik neighbors for Bijon Robinson right now I think this offense would be massively downgraded massively downgraded to be completely honest a healthy fresh Bijon Robinson a great football player he's a running back he's still relying on the scheme in the blocking the receiver is going to change so much of the coverage so much of everything a receiver allows you allows you to open up the rushing attack right right your rushing attack can help you out but you need those five offensive linemen blocking you know like Sigma Barkley in 2018 was an absolute stud there were still plenty of times where he was met at the line of scrimmage and it's like dude this guy can't really you know you can't do anything right exactly no one's blocking for the poor guy man remember when he played the Jets he's like yeah I'm a jet fan that was crazy that game bro I remember the defensive philosophy of that game was just we are going to fill every single gap with our linebackers and forced a quarterback to beat us and they're not a good game that game because yeah exactly who are going to be one of the Jets it's like yeah because Sigma Barkley rushed for like negative two yards I remember watching I had that game I covered that game for 24/7 I remember watching that game and just watching something like there was like a slant that slatener one of the dude I think it was late and ran against the corner he just had like no help from the second or third level it was just like if you beat this one on one that's it it's a touchdown now off of slant like I'm going to do a fourth down play yeah just pull it out for the run there's like screw it you're running Barkley like that's it but that is also a partial like Jones has been better against man first blitz his entire career I hope some coordinators playing with man this year because that's always a little bit I know that you haven't been using a lot of his own coverage but you're going to see some press man as well I'm wondering how how Flores is going to play neighbor man are they going to give him the Justin Jefferson treatment what the Giants with more down there against Jefferson it's going to be interesting I don't want that to happen I want some neighbors freak one fun I don't want them to just you know double team is ass the whole game DFS players throw some wandale and some hyatt into some of your lineups of week one we're gonna be on everyone's gonna be on neighbors that could be a nice pivot if Brian Flores does decide to cover neighbors and just eliminate them from the game plan which I hope is impossible I'm going to say that might be impossible for teams to do but it's not impossible because we kind of did that with Jefferson who's like the best receiver in the NFL but the thing is man I think neighbors in Jefferson is is this kind of player too but and we can wrap this up and go to tie down to this neighbors like there are players are wide receivers I'm already Cooper for instance wide receivers were good good wide receivers in the NFL well I think can just get schemed out and they'll finish a game like two for 32 or something like that but then you have like the Jamar Chase is the Justin Jefferson's I wonder all Saint Brown is a little bit different because he operates out of the slot as well as Cooper Cup and his prime I think Malik neighbors is that type of player where yeah you could scheme against him but he's still going to get his he might finish five for 70 or with one or something but like he's still going to get his because he is that uber talented yes I agree with you a hundred percent on that all right ceiling for these tight ends this year that's interesting what are you thoughts on that so I don't really know ceiling wise I think a lot of them could could feast in the middle of the field because Malik neighbors so I think that's going to benefit Theo Johnson and Daniel Bellinger man hurts he's just going to be like an extra offensive lineman who's going to benefit for some like trick plays play action you might get like two touchdowns off play action in the red zone from a from a ceiling standpoint if one of those tight ends can get over 500 yards and three touchdowns with the other one getting like 302 I think that's that's more realistic though so ceiling if we can get a collective thousand yards from our tight end position with six touchdowns but is that a good ceiling if we're going to put numbers to it I think that's a good ceiling I want to I want to go a little a little loft here with it okay let's do it you believe some I'm going to take the manner it's out of it for this lofty side of it not to say that I think first of all having manner it's on the roster it's just going to be an added benefit but it's going to be more of like the ways that me and you see on film like the stuff that we see like home a cloud you know the guys were like oh these guys showed up on tape but they might not show up in the box car that's where I see more man hurts but from the lofty side from the what you'll see as a fan in the box score and then you know on your TV screen making big plays I still think somewhere in there because I know I've seen it already in 2019 somewhere in there there's a scene ball thrower in Daniel Jones there's somebody who will challenge the seams I saw it with Caden Smith it was just a four game stretch yeah it was just a four game stretch of his career Daniel Jones but he attacked the seams with Caden Smith and I want to think that more so now than ever with made with neighbors on this roster there will be opportunities for Daniel Jones to attack the scene with both Bellinger and Theo Johnson this year and that's the ceiling for me is the Giants become a team that can threaten the seams with their tight end position and and now work in this as well the tight end screen game something we've seen throughout training game in the preseason that can become a weapon in the offense too that we haven't seen in previous years but for me it's the ceiling is we become a team that can utilize the seams and once that starts happening defense are going to have tough time scheming up ways to just stop this offense I absolutely know I love the fact that you brought this up that we are talking about ceiling again okay we're talking about ceiling but let's go into football 101 man if you want to play too high you want to play cover two you want to cloud our receiver outside the numbers how do you punish that you're going to force those linebackers to run Tampa to force that linebacker to carry you up the seam which is going to open up so much more space in the shallow intermediate and the shallow portions of the field for Wandale and for Hyatt and if all of these things work together with let's say Daniel Bellinger or Theo Johnson stretching the seam yes you're going to get more light boxes as well so like the offense as a whole the totality of the offense because you're you have a full deck of cards at your hands right like you have so many options it's not just hey we have sake one Barkley you know like you actually have options to make defenses it's like what's that game we used to play in that board game no not cotann it was the football one oh it's dramatic greatest game ever literally the greatest game ever created in the history of man it's the most virgin game I think I've ever played in my life is the most virgin game in the history of virgins but like stratomatic football oh my god you're literally essentially caught you're a coach you're you're moving your defensive players you're setting your defensive alignments you're running plays you're calling plays you're guessing what the coordinator other coordinators going to call it's unreal it's as good as it gets but that's the thing like if you have a good team right you can attack so many different areas of the field and that forces you the plot the opponent of yours to to allocate their resources that's hopefully what the Giants can get if Daniel Jones can do what he has to do with the offensive line can block if we could stretch the seam as you said which I love that you brought that up and if Malik neighbors can effectively attack defenses deep in that really any level so I love the fact that you brought that up with the tight ends yep and there's one more factor that goes back into an earlier best case scenario it's having Tracy on the field because now if you had everything you just broke down plus Tyrone Tracy's on your field now you have somebody you can move out running ever on a Texas route against that middle of the field and I are just doing different things that again are just making the core of the opposite coordinator either guess wrong or second guess what they think you're going to do and that's all reality game is like why did the Rams all the sudden go to become some like such such a successful team last year was it really having Pooka Nakuen Kyren Williams I like again I respect their games especially Pooka I think I respect the scheme a lot more though to be honest they married that run game in that past game really well they went back to just let's put big dudes on the interior from the line and run to it and like it fucking work like they got defenses second guessing when the Rams are gonna run and when they were gonna pass and they disguised their runs and pass really well and ultimately like cup was hurt all year Pooka's a great player he's not neighbors type like Stafford I love so I don't want to say that but like Kyren Williams like is that Barkley you know what I mean like Kyren's a good player he's a good player right but he's not really the reason why that run game was successful in my opinion so again it's like all comes down to that in my opinion can you get the opposing defensive coordinator second guessing one more thing to yep I want them just kind of circle back to table and it all kind of comes together is the RPO game as well the option game have that clicking again in the red zone that was a true threat for the Giants with my calf go back in 2022 I think I think Daniel Jones actually does a pretty good job running those plays and discerning how to attack defenses so the RPO game is another thing I would like to see clicking because that's gonna put defenses really in a bind with with their run fits and with how they're going to cover neighbors on those glance routes I think you can have a lot of fun with with the RPO game and I'm expecting to see some of that this season good point because Jones in the past 2022 has shown good timing with his passes in from the RPO and you know people said when I put up that Beckham clip I was like if neighbors can be 80% of what this was they were like oh I don't remember neighbors running that many slants it's like yeah well that's kind of like how the LSU offense operated and it's going to be a different offense with the Giants and he trusts me it's like one of those things we said like you know just because we haven't seen him really do a lot of it at the college level doesn't mean he can't trust me if neighbors is running slants he's going to create some serious separation on those lands absolutely dude yeah so this was our best case scenario one by one position by position for the Giants offense we hope you enjoyed this video I felt like this was one of our best in a while we run into a lot of schematic stuff we got deep into the weeds so this is really to me when we talk when we get into this kind of stuff Nick in the conversation beers in this direction it's what separate it's what it's what defines us I should say so if you felt this way listening to this podcast and you enjoyed this kind of in-depth Giants and Xs and O's conversation please do us a favor hit the like button right now just click that like button you're watching this on YouTube I just want you to take your mouse move your hand over your mouse move it up to the like and then click like it was hopefully a one and a half second thing for you to do and guess what you just changed our video because if all of you did that if when I said this every one of you did this it'd be amazing we have three thousand new subscribers tomorrow that's how serious this stuff we got to a thousand because we're getting you know five thousand whatever views on a video we got five thousand likes that's a game changer right there that's everyone hitting like I'm not going to expect a hundred percent like rate Nick that's crazy I think Josh Norris does a good job breaking this down on the underdog fantasy show with Hayden Winx he says like 39% of you who listen actually hit like and subscribe I want to get that in the end he says you sickos who are the 61% I'm not going to call the 61% sickos I respect all of our listeners but I will say this if you're in the 61% do us a favor just consider hitting that like button right now and then consider making a part of your process of listening to our videos and watching our videos obviously download subscribe on iTunes or Spotify and then subscribe to this podcast as well on YouTube if you haven't 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