The Daly Express
Author Daniel V. Meier Jr. on Writing, Awards, Satire, and More
(upbeat music) - Hi everyone, this is John Daly. I'm here with another episode of The Daily Express. Today I have a very talented fiction writer on with me. He's written five novels of different genres and has at least one other book in the works. I'm guessing probably more than that even. He has, oh he's got, he's showing you folks. For those who can't see, he's working, he's got six there. So he's won a ton of awards. He wears very cool hats and he's an all around nice guy. I'm talking about Daniel B. Meyer Jr. How's it going today, Dan? - Great, good to see you. - Good to see you as well. Well, thank you for joining me. It's great to have you on. I want to let people know right off the bat that I was not exaggerating about all the awards you've won. The number is somewhere in the ballpark of 60, as far as I can tell. This includes some very big national awards of cash prizes. You've accepted literary trophies everywhere from Hollywood to New York. You and your books have been featured on the Jumbo Tron in Times Square. Dan, I want to start off with two questions. First one, how did you get so awesome? And two, do you ever feel bad for other authors who didn't win these awards because of how awesome you are? (laughing) - Gosh, John, I don't know how to answer that question about strutting around. The reason I entered these contests, 'cause I thought it would be a way to get noticed. I wasn't trying to prove anything. I just thought that if I could win a few contests, some people would remember me. And consequently, I'll buy or acquire my books. That's the only reason. But it turns out it was the second one. And I guess it's kind of a validation that when I win one of these awards, I can say to myself, at last, finally, I'm doing something right. So that's it, John, it's not really an ego trip. I didn't expect to win anything to the truth. And it's been a total surprise to me when I do win. I can't figure it out. The contests aren't rigged because nobody's asked me for money. So I don't know. I guess I have to admit that I'm rather proud of it. As soon as far as how I feel about other authors not winning, no, I don't feel, oh, no, wait, I take that back. Yeah, I do feel sorry for them, I really do. (laughing) - Well, it's, yeah, I think it's all, it's so much about your talent. And it's, I mean, like you said, these are, you've won some very big ones. What would you say is the best award or your favorite award, I should say? - Oh, wow. - The answer is your wife, Dan. It's not, you're supposed to. - Yes, yes, yes, yes, you're right, you're right. Okay, that's it. You're right, John. What was I thinking? Yes, right. Yeah, she does all that, by the way. I'd be helpless without her. She enters these contests. I don't even know which ones I'm in. In fact, I haven't won them all. And so I don't even know which ones I've lost. - Yeah, well, that is. - It's a very interesting relationship between him and Tia's wife. She's very much, you know, his manager in many respects and the cheerleader and all out there doing what you've been. I think that's- - My profession, Tia's an architect, but she's dove into this marketing stuff with all the force of a sperm whale crashing in the water and has done a darn good job. I think we check on, now my books aren't flying off the shelves and that sort of thing, but we are selling, I know it sounds pitiful, but to me it isn't, we're selling four or five, sometimes more books every week. And of course, I'd like to get that number up. And, you know, what I'm looking for, I don't want people to understand, I'm not looking to make any money from these things. I would like for BQD to make money because they need it to stay in business and we need them as a publisher. But I'm looking for real shit. I want people to read and enjoy my books and beg for more. So that's where I am. - I hope this appearance today on the Daily Express will help with those sales. I have noticed that the episodes do sell product, so that's a very good thing. So Dan, you've led a very interesting life. You've spent a lot of time in aviation, has a flight instructor and a pilot examiner and a safety inspector for the FAA. You do a lot of, what's that? - Loved every minute of it. - Excellent, excellent. You also do a lot of sailing out on the chest. - Yes. - I assume you've also traveled on land on occasion. - How important has your hands done that? - Good, I'm glad to hear that, I'm glad to hear that. How important have those adventures been to your writing? - Very important, I think. They've allowed me to see many aspects of life, dangerous situations where people have to make split-second decisions, people facing sudden and violent death, like I have five times. And also, just different aspects of what we, in the literature, like to call the human condition. And also, it reaffirms something in myself. Whenever I get in an airplane, I have to admit that most of the time I have a lump in my throat. And the reason for that lump is that one question is, is this thing gonna work? But then when I start to take off and lift off in the air, I don't think about it anymore. So yeah, it's been a enormous help, it has. Also, it's given me, I think, John, that everybody needs at least two activities that they love in life. 'Cause if you have trouble making it in one, the way I did with writing, there's always another. And aviation was that. And not only did it allow me an unusual and thrilling life, but also, it was a living and a good one. And I got to meet an awful lot of interesting people. And so no, if I had to go all over again, I think I would. 'Cause when I first started out writing, when I got out of college, of course, I did my two years and they were active duty reserve. And that experience taught me, okay, Meyer, you need to write the stuff down. So I got out of active duty, but I used a typewriter for 40 bucks, a royal thing with JEG that was maybe the size of a couple of fists, taught myself how to type and then started writing. In those days, John, I don't know if you remember the Monarchs since you're much younger than I am, but in those days, you could send manuscripts directly to the publisher. I'm talking New York, big shot guys, you know, who like to show you how important they are. You could send it directly to them. And I did, and of course, was rejected. However, several returned it and said, "Hey, Meyer, this is a good book, that's a good story." But nobody knows who you are. We just don't want to take a financial risk on this now. So I tended to bury them, and after that, I did have an agent for a while, but he wanted me to write nothing but pot boilers, i.e. branding. And I did, I got one published under a pseudonym, but, you know, I wanted to do something else. But it turns out that my wife after a number of years of failing, and that's an old story with writers, I'm sure, and my wife said, "Maybe you better get a job." So I had a pilot certificate, and I knew how to fly, so I finished getting my other ratings, and got a job flying. So, but then, interestingly enough, I kind of put writing to the side, and when I retired, I had this friend, Les Vypon, who had done a Bush pilot in Africa, West Africa. And, you know, we'd have lunch together, and he would tell me all these stories, like, "Hey, it reminds me when I was stranded at the Rio Pungo, surrounded by natives. They stole all my whiskey cigarettes, had to survive all food and water, it was terrible." Those kind of stories. So anyway, I said to him, "You know, Les, you need to write this stuff down, 'cause once you go to that airport in the sky, it's all gonna be lost." And these unique experiences. And he said, "Okay, I'll do it." "Well, I knew Les, he didn't do it." So I got his permission to do it myself, and after about 30 hours of very expensive lunches and tape conversation, I wrote "Dumb Beels of Liberia." And it's done well. It's gotten some criticism for the title, and I admitted it. Whenever I give some place and talk about it, I always apologize for the title. You know, I wanted to think of something lofty and literary, like, you know, Tinder is the night, or some kind of stuff like that. But the more I got into this story, the more I realized that, "Hey, these people are acting like dung beels. They're there in this rich country where anything goes. They're rolling up their water money, and then they're getting out." And so that's why, unfortunately, I stuck with that title, right? Like I said, I wish he could have been-- - I'm gonna ask you about that title. - Title of a monthly literary, what? - Oh, I was gonna say, I'm gonna ask you about that title here in a little bit, 'cause there is some good stories behind it. But Dan, you've written in thriller fiction, historical fiction, mysteries, satirical fiction, which of those so genres would you say is your favorite? And have you thought about trying your hand at romantic fiction? - I have thought about trying my hand at romantic fiction, but I just can't do it, John. I'm gonna leave that to others, like Danielle E. Steele or Kristen, what is her name, Kristen Hannah, a good writer, but no, I don't think I can make it with romantic fiction. However, the suspense action, political stuff is I feel comfortable with, and even satire, I do. You know, that's the thing, and I know if you're published by a traditional publisher, like Harcourt, Brace, and whatever they are, they want you to stick with a single genre. They want to brand you, and I know that in sales, branding is important, and that's the reason people like Stephen King write horror stories. I'm sure he wants to write other things in other genres, and he may, but he probably does it in a pseudonym. And I don't know, but I kind of think the writer should be a bit like an actor, able and willing to play many parts, and my interest spans everything I've written about. I have a degree in history. I have a minor in chemistry, and of course, you know, an airline transport pilot category rating. So my rating follows those interests, and I can't help it. It's sort of like a disease, you know? - Oh no, I think that's a great way of looking at it. You know, as an actor, you know, people have these different parts of their lives that they've learned more, and you're talking about doing it and writing, and I think that's fantastic. You never know, you know, I don't even, you've covered a lot of different bases, and I think that's great. Now, your newest novel is Guidance to Death. It's a book one in the Frank Adams detective series. Can you explain to people who Frank Adams is and what the book is about? - Well, Frank Adams, I have to admit, I drew in my own experience as an accident investigator. That was part of what I did in the FAA. And I thought at some point, some years ago, actually I wrote that novel quite some years ago, and I thought it would be kind of an interesting twist on the standard detective, you know, conventions and novels. And by the way, I took a course at University of Maryland called the Detective Story. Best course I've ever had. Anyway, a lot of fun. But so I thought, okay, we'll give this guy a different slant. I mean, we've had nuns as detectives, pre-says detectives, bummed us detectives, tough guys and all the rest of it. Why not have an accident investigator? So that's what I did. And of course, my meager knowledge of the aviation industry also helps. And that's the reason I did it. I thought I could write an interesting, exciting story from that point of view. And it's not, it's going to start flying off the shelves in sales, but I think it's a good story. - It's supposed to act like it is flying off the shelves. - Oh, really? Okay, yeah, it's flying off the shelves, what the heck. Yeah, yeah. - So you wrote a, you mentioned this earlier, the Dung Beatles of Liberia, it's actually a two book series at this point. Very good historical fiction based on a true account in Liberia in the 1960s. You told me a funny story about the series. You did some heavy promotion of those books during Black History Month, and you use the tagline history every African-American should know. Now, I understand where you're coming from, as in the historical, regional, and ethnic. So that's the story, but on social media, I kind of lost their mind over the app. Some people call you racist, I guess, because you're white and we're associating your books with Black History Month. Others didn't like the mere concept of Black History, as opposed, I guess, to general history. Dan, would you have ever guessed that you would have become a social lightning rod for controversy? - Would I have ever guessed that it would have? - Yes. - Not in a zillion years. (laughs) The last thing I'm gonna do is stir up social controversy and calls riots and that kind of thing. However, if it'll sell books, maybe I will, I don't know. - It's right. - But, yeah, I was surprised by that. I honestly was, because I think it is an important part of African-American history, and I think that it should be emphasized more in schools, although some people have called it a historical footnote. The significance of it is this, John, that back in 1805, there was a massive slave revolt on the island of Haiti, and the slaves under the leadership of a futant lebasure killed every plantation owner and not only that, but every white person on that island. Whether they were for the revolt or not. Now, the one thing that southern plantation owners, and I'm from the south, and I've heard about this all my life, the one thing they feared was a slave revolt, and quite, quite understandably. I mean, it wasn't uncommon for a plantation owner to own one, two, maybe 300 slaves. And if they decided under the right leadership to, hey, we're gonna end this, they could, it could have. I mean, Jefferson owned, what, like 400 slaves or something like that? It's a tremendous number of people. So the south lived very much in terror of that, and somebody, and I'm trying to remember who, anyway, one of the abolitionists got the idea, okay, now the abolitionists had a good intention. They felt like it would be humane to allow African-Americans to return to Africa. But you had to be a freedman, you had to be free, you couldn't be a slave, and this is in 1822, okay? Long before our time, John. So in the south, agreed with that wholeheartedly, not because they had any compassion for these freedmen, because they wanted to get rid of them as potential troublemakers. So the American Colonization Society, along with abolitionists and southern leaders, got together and made a deal with the British who owned everything at that time, that they would colonize this little section of Africa, which is now Liberia, with former slaves, and they did, and so the first ship was the Elizabeth that carried like, I don't know, under and some. And then for years after that, they transported any freed black who wanted to go to Liberia transportation, with it his or her family and whatever. It sounded humane, but it wasn't. The assumption was that, okay, these people will get there and will automatically be culturalized, I guess that's maybe a word, that they'll fit in, they'll be successful, well, they weren't. The 16 indigenous tribes in what is now Liberia naturally resented this invasion, and they resisted it, violently. And so the African Americans, at the time, found themselves under siege, and they barely survived. And what is now in Libya, that was their last stronghold. But the advantage was that, well, they had two advantages. One is that they had supplies from North America. They would get what they needed, arms, tools, that sort of thing. And most of these people were skilled at some trade or another. I mean, after all, they were used to build buildings. So they were used to make saddles. And they were, yeah, these people all had a skill, whereas indigenous people did not have these industrial modern skills. So consequently, the Afro-Americans organized themselves under, I think his name was Roberts, anyway. And they had weapons, and then they fought, they fought the indigenous tribes and won. The problem is, or was, maybe it still is, that they used the same suppressive or repressive techniques that the slave owner, slave owner owners had used on them. They forced the people into servitude. They pretty much stole the lamb, and that sort of thing. And they eventually became very, very successful, especially on the President Tubman, in the 1940s through the 1960s and '70s. Tubman died, I think, in '71. And a very able politician, really. And the interesting thing about these American librarians is that they had lost their African culture. That was one of the problems. I mean, slavery had been, existed in America for like 200 years before this happened. And so they had lost all memory of what it was like to be an African. And so they had to start from scratch, so to speak. And now, oh, yeah, and they were a little paler than the regular African individual. And that was, that was from the, trying to think of the right adjective. That was from the abuse of people in bondage. Kind of like Jefferson and Sally Hemings. So they were a little lighter than the African individual. They were a little lighter, you know, a little bit different. And they just would never fit in, then, in those days. But they did become, as I said, very successful and influential and for a state, for a nation that's about the size of Virginia, they were very rich in minerals. The mining companies took advantage of it. The European mining companies especially. They're rich in iron. They have excellent gold mines. 10, just by the way, what do you want? Our need is there. So why am I going on like this, John? - That's right. - No, we talked about the contrast. - You started it. You started it, you got me going. - No, that's all right. I think, see, I think what you're, by talking about this, you're actually explaining why it actually made sense for you to bring up-- - Yes, and for African Americans, well, I was corrected on that by one reader. He said, "We want to be called Americans of African descent." Okay, fine. But I think it's important for them to know that, to know that part of their history. It failed, actually. You know, this transportation back to Africa failed. Now, during the revolution under Sergeant Do, who later became general, though, it was pretty much like the French Revolution. I mean, the parallels are amazing. African Americans were, I mean, African Americans were a little like a library of Americans. Anyway, they were so similar to the French aristocracy in the 18th century, it just boggles the mind. And the same attitude and, of course, the result was pretty much the same. Most of them were hunted down and killed by the rebels, just like the French aristocracy. I mean, everybody in King Louis, the 16th family, was guillotine, even his sisters, just because they happened to be aristocrats. So very similar thing. And it's another one of those lessons from history, John, that I think people ought to constantly keep in mind. When a small group of people get tremendous power and authority and wealth over a very large group of people, they better watch out. It goes all through history from the peasant revolt of 1381 to the Russian Revolution, the same footprints, the same thing. We don't seem to learn. Anyway, it was a tragedy. And by the way, there's a large American-Liberian community here in DC, and a lot of the parents and whatever fled came back, ironically came back to the US. What's her name? She just published a book called The House at Sugar Beach. Helen Cooper, very good of memory. Excellent. She nails everything that I've just told you, right on the head. - Well, that's a-- - Good chance. - If you get a chance, read it. - Sounds good, sounds good. Yeah, that was a good little history lesson there. People, that's the duck beetles of Liberia again for people that are listening. So I've written myself a lot of mystery and thriller fiction with my shot in the bowling series. But I've been thinking for some time about trying my hand at satire, I've written satirical pieces, never in the form of the book. I read your satirical novel, the No Birds thing here. And one of the things I was taking back by pretty early in the book was how much time you spent on the topic of creative urination. - Yes, why do you think I do that, John? - Well, I can speculate, but I was gonna say, as a fan of satire, which I assume you had to be in order to write a book that crazy, did you feel that your nation had been unrepresented in the genre and thus you wanted to take it upon yourself to change that? - Absolutely. No, I wasn't sure. And I'm in it for laughs, of course. - Yeah. - My cat, whatever he wants to show possession of something, he urinates on it. So did my dog, he likes something, he urinated on it. And this is common practice among animals to mark their territory and their possessions. So that's why I have a Herschel pee on Beckman. He likes him and he's gonna pee on him. And he pees around the kitchen because that's his territory. Nobody has figured that out. I mean, it's quite simple. Everybody's been offended by it. Ooh, my wife. First time she read the manuscript, she threw it across the room. This is awful. - No, I wasn't offended by it at all. I thought it was hilarious, I actually, I decided-- - It was supposed to be. - Yeah, yeah, no, it was good. I just thought it was funny 'cause, you know, you get it there and you get it, it's a pretty good detail. And then you keep returning to it. - That's right, it's a recurring theme. This is mine and I'm gonna piss on it. - That's right. - That's right, exactly, you know, that's-- - Well, I mean, John, let's face it. Do you live in a semi-rule place suburb? - About an hour north of Denver, not really a suburb. - Okay, well, do you ever, like, go out on your back porch and claim your territory that way? - I mean, haven't you done that, John? - Yes, I've never done that in my family doesn't know it. How is it, not everybody knows it there. I gotta be honest with you. But no, it's, what's that comedian, Sebastian Montezcalo, he, that's part of his gig about pissing off the porch, sorry, and stuff. No, it's not, I do something to that. It's happened, I'm admitting it here on The Daily Express. I think probably there's a lot of listeners that are probably shaking their heads, maybe not as, you know, like, "Oh wow, this is actually a thing that people are doing." And you capture that in your literary work, Dan. - Well, I remember hearing Charleston Heston, the late and great actor, say that yes, he urinates on his property and he doesn't know a man who doesn't. (both laughing) - It's one of those unspoken things, I guess, about being a man is pissing on things. - Yes, you're right. Figuratively as well as literally, yeah. - Yes, so on a similar note, I've been talking a little earlier about the dung beetles of Liberia. Something I brought up to, I brought to your attention a few months ago, which you didn't realize at the time, is that because you have the word dung in your Twitter X profile, every time you post a photo there of anything, it's automatically flagged and blurred out as being potentially sensitive content, apparently out of concern, Dan, that you may be posting pictures of actual dung. So, Dan, have you thought about taking this situation and turning it into perhaps your next novel? - I actually, John, I haven't given any thought, but I will. Yeah, and I'm sorry for that. I don't know how to correct it, but I'm stuck with it, that's all. - That's right, no, you don't have to apologize. I think it's a great title. I think it captures the attention. Obviously captures the imagination of a social media sensor, it's somewhat not. - What I can't understand, John, is in an era where the F word is used in movies constantly, and all kinds of vulgar speech is used in movies and books. Why is everybody so upset about the use of the word dung? - Yeah, I don't know how to get it. - I mean, it's how it's referred to. It's a, and the dung bills provide an important ecological purpose. - Exactly, you're in violence, Dan. - But I don't understand it. - I think if anything, the word dung is probably underrepresented in society and more of it. I think it needs to be out there more. It sounds, I think it sounds better than poop or all the other ones. - Go ahead and say it, John, if you can. - I think it's, I think I'm all on board, Dan, with dung bills, I think that's great. So that's probably a good place to wrap things up today, Dan. It was great talking to you. I want to thank you for coming on this podcast and putting up with my silly line of questioning. You handled it quite well. You put out some interesting stuff. I want to wish you the best of luck with your continued writing. And I hope you'll let some other authors win a award once in a while. I think that would be beautiful. - Not a chance. - That's right, you're very selfish, man, Dan. - I am, absolutely. - You really should give some other people some opportunities out there. But can you tell people listening today and watching us how they can find out more about you and your books? - Well, I suppose this way, John, is to go to my website, DanielMyerAuthor.com. And pretty much everything is there about me. Except my love affairs, the time I escaped jail. And that sort of thing. But no, I guess-- - Do you have tips out there on the website for creative urination practices? - I haven't yet, John, but I'm thinking about it. - I was gonna comment on seeing your head, Dan. - Here's how to urinate meaningfully. - Yeah, that sort of thing. - That's right, that would be a good service. People would appreciate those tips, I think. - I think so, yeah. How to claim your territory the easy way, that sort of thing. - Exactly, exactly. - Let all the other dogs know who the big dog is around here, that sort of thing. - Exactly, it needs to be done. And I'll put your website also in the show notes that people could find easily and follow you, including your controversial Twitter account, if they want to follow. I know you're not as active out there, just 'cause you're getting censored, left and right. But yeah, I'll put it all out there and people should check out his latest book, check out all of his books. I'm gonna put links for all those in the show notes as well. Guide is to Death is your new one. I know you just submitted another, your next novel. Well, I have published here, so we'll see you. We'll learn more about that, Death. - Okay, John. - Excellent, well thanks. - This has been a pleasure. It's been a real pleasure, John. - I was dreading it, I was dreading it, but now I'm not. - I don't blame you for that. People really would, you know, if given the choice between not talking to me and talking to me, I think people usually choose to choose the other, but I appreciate you coming on, and it was great talking to you, and I hope you have a great day. - Anytime, John, you too. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)