- Welcome back everyone to Disc Golf Daily. - I am here with the man, with a plan, Panama, Mac Graham. - What do they call that when it's a man with a plan, Panama? What is that? That's called something. - Yeah, that's great. - Right. - You're putting you on the spot. - Radar. - All the listeners of this, which I don't know how many there are, but there's probably thousands or millions. They just need to let us know what that's called. There's a word for it. But yeah, no, and I don't know if it's correct to label me as the man with a plan. Maybe we can get into that. I don't really plan too much out, but how's it going, Ben? - Good. How are you? - There are people that don't really know you, or know you do, let us know. It's a palindrome, I think. That's what it is. - Oh, there it is, palindrome. Do you think it'd be a word that actually played forwards and backwards the same, but no. - Yes. - Yes. - Taco Cat. - Exactly. That's what I'm looking at right now, Taco Cat. Yeah, but let us know what you do. Wow. What do I do? I think a lot, I am motivated, ambitious person. I get ideas, I try to pull them off. Sometimes I dive in the water without checking the depth and I find out it was dumb, but like what I actually do as a career, I'm a safety professional in the utility world. That's my main income and how I fund all the things that I do outside of that. But yeah, man, I have a wife, I have four boys. I found Disc Golf about 17 years ago, really right and less there. So home of Maple Hill, I think my first course I ever played was Pyramids on Marshall Street and Maple Hill on Marshall Street as well, but that wasn't my first course. But Disc Golf became a part of my life. About three years into my Disc Golf journey, I had my first son introduce him to Disc Golf, got really involved in the sport, trying to organize it from the bottom up for kids and trying to grow it to a world championship type thing for juniors, ended up through the pandemic, starting a podcast with my friend Nick. Later inviting you, Ben, and to join as part of the fun. The name changed recently from the Nick and Marshall to Staggers stance and it's its own thing now as well. And here I am talking to you on Disc Golf daily. And if I'm not mistaken, this is a brainchild of Steve Dodge. Is that correct? Correct. This is Steve Dodge brainchild. He just brought me on for the Sunday movers and shakers interview, the movers and shakers. Whoa, you didn't tell me that. I might have declined the interview. No, I appreciate it very much. Yeah. Um, tell us, I guess more about, um, staggered stance. I feel like that's your main thing you were, you're doing right now. I know you did a kids Disc Golf, but I feel like staggered stance. So for anyone who doesn't know, staggered stance is a podcast that I'm on. And it's actually like the original podcast that I've been on in my, uh, I'd say like the main one that I have consistently, I don't know. Cause now I have another also, but I don't know how to, because I have my own podcast too with fun. But it's like the main, it's the most popular one that I, and the most, the most, but on the longest. Let's flip the interview movers and shakers. I'll interview you, um, but yeah, so staggered stance. I don't know how far where you want to go with this, but I'll just give the, like the, the short, concise version interview about you, we can go, whatever, if you want to dig in this stuff, just cut me off, but it started back in, um, 2020, the very beginning of it. So like before the pandemic was known to be like the pandemic, there were people wearing masks and just kind of like, oh, there's a sickness of some sort and kind of questioning, you know, what's going to happen. We didn't, we, nobody really knew. And I was just like, and this will come off as funny, maybe a little bit Ben, but I talk a lot. It doesn't mean I'm good at it, but inherently to me and the way my brain works, I talk a lot. And I said, man, I like to talk about disc golf. I like to listen to people talk about disc golf. Maybe we could pull something off. I have a creative mind. I like to produce. I like to create. And so I thought, let's start a podcast. And at the time I reached out to somebody and, um, I said, Hey, I want to do a podcast. I'm going to pull it off pretty quick here. I'd like to start in a week or two and they weren't ready to commit. Um, I went to my good buddy Nick and I pitched it to him and I said, I'll be the guy that kind of produces, um, be maybe one of those like hot tape guys or brings, you know, animated takes or exciting thoughts or just brings energy to the podcast. And Nick, you can be the athlete and bring that take. And at the time for those who aren't aware, Nick was attempting to tour on the pro tour and he did for a little while and it's claimed the fame is a lead card at Waco. Um, so long story short, he was that guy, he was kind of a feed on the ground, um, knowing inside scoops of how it's playing or what it's playing like for competitors and himself. So we started out saying, well, no one really knows us per se. Not fully true. Nick had, you know, really good friendship with Paul, Macbeth and Hannah, uh, I had that connection as well. We had a lot of friends in the disc golf scene, but like we weren't forward people in any way. So one thing leads to another. We said we need to, uh, interview. We need to do interviews. At the time, Smashbox TV, the people streaming the live events for the disc golf pro tour also did a podcast and, uh, shout out to Terry and Johnny V. I mean, they were the original and they're still the legends, um, of doing that. We said, Hey, there's room for more, a lot of interviews out there to be had. So we just started interviewing people and back in the day, it wasn't necessarily winners of the pro tour, um, or even big storylines, it was kind of just like, Hey, let's interview Dave Felberg. Hey, let's interview John Hough. Let's enter. And we just started picking lots of people. Our first show ever, ever we interviewed Simon Lazott and Terry Miller, um, is our two guests on the show. So we started doing interviews. That's why people came, um, I think we offered a unique take on it. We did different segments that had never been seen before, um, everything from judge that disc golfer, which was a fun segment on just, um, looking at people and asking them questions and trying to figure out how they might answer. Um, so we did a lot of different types of segments, um, trying to always think innovatively of what we can do to bring more entertainment to these disc golf podcasts. And really, I mean, some highlight moments, uh, interviewing James Conrad following the, um, the throw in heard around the world to tie Paul McBeth and go to a playoff and in the world and win the world championships. So that was a big interview with James Conrad. We also interviewed Paul McBeth after that and that went down to be one of our most listened and viewed episodes ever, um, hundreds of thousands of listens on that because I think people were more impressed or not impressed, but they were more interested in how Paul's response to that throw in from James was when, when Paul really kind of had it locked up or seemingly locked up. Another big interview was Simon was not moving from disc mania to MVP and giving us the exclusive interview. Um, that was just awesome. Um, and so a long story short, we've done a lot of incredible interviews, some that weren't that popular, but that really, you know, changed my perspective on things. Um, we've grown, we brought you in, Ben, you reached out and I said, we need help and you offered the help and which is took our, took our show to a little different place. I feel like offering another personality and I think that's partly where, where we do well and I let people speak for themselves, but bringing multiple personalities besides just Nick and myself and then moving into this beginning of this last year, the change up to the name staggered stance and officially having you as a main host, um, and my brother coming on. Yeah, so it's changed a lot over the last four, and this is our fifth season, if I'm not mistaken, the 2020 season, 21, 22, 23, 20, yeah, this is our fifth season, um, not quite five years yet, but a lot of change, um, a lot of listeners and people that reach out to us and say they enjoy it, a lot of haters, but this is the episode about, um, movers and shakers. And frankly, if you're not doing something where people see it, then you won't have haters and that's fine. If you do stuff, people are going to voice their opinion if they like something or don't. And frankly, the people in person that come up and see us, shake our hands, high five of us and say they love the show. That's not why I do it because I think I would do it regardless of people, but that keeps me going and that's pretty cool. So that's kind of the, I don't know how long that was five or 10 minutes there, but that's kind of the very short version of all the things that have happened over the last four and a half, five years. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks. Thanks for sharing. It's funny because, yeah, I'm interviewing you for the first time ever and normally that's my job. Well, all of our jobs on a staggered state is kind of interviewing different people. So what has been your biggest, uh, give me your biggest learning lesson you've had throughout the past four years through the podcast and give me your, like, um, I guess, this might be the same thing. Maybe it's not. Give me your biggest learning lesson where like, you know, you realize that, okay, this wasn't the right move or this wasn't the right thing or, um, this could be better and then give me kind of your biggest, uh, takeaway. That's the same question, but give me your biggest takeaway you've gotten. It could be positive. So the first one's more like, okay, uh, something I learned my lesson here that, uh, and it could be on the technical side, but also the biggest takeaway you've gotten from kind of starting your own podcast and trying to, uh, make it successful. And in my opinion, obviously it is already is very, I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to spitball a few things because it's hard to land on one. I would say never think of yourself, and this is for me as being more important or bigger than anything at all, like, don't compare, don't think you're bigger than anything else. Treat everybody with the same respect as if you were nobody because I hate to say this. It's probably a course perspective, but, but we're nobodies in that sense and it's just like, disc golf is disc golf. Um, I would say another lesson, um, this one is interesting and I don't think I've ever shared it before and maybe I won't get into all the details, but we talk about disc golfers on the pro scene and we treat them as professional athletes and we kind of feel like it's open game to talk about, um, but there was a time or two where we talked about something that had happened from our perspective and we got reached out to and more or less told do your research. I'm the source. Now, what's interesting is we're kind of hearing that a little bit more, um, with relevant topics right now and I'm not going to go into those, but like, this happens regularly, but it really struck me as maybe reach out to the people and get their takes more often than we do. Um, they're listening to these episodes and their opinion as the source matters. Um, I think the other thing is, as you mentioned, technically, just inherently to like who I am, I like to try to do things bigger than probably I can keep up with, um, and it's a lot of work and I do think it matters at some level, um, but at the same time you make something bigger than what you can keep up with, it's going to burn you out and I think you have to have some resolution with yourself of why you're doing it and so this is kind of the full circle here of like everything I'm talking about because you'll get negative feedback. You will get positive feedback. You're putting time, blood, sweat, tears into this, you know, as a project, a passion project and if you don't have the why, the why you're doing it nailed down like actually consciously thought about, you're, you're going to get lost and by lost, I mean, you're going to be chasing different things, finding out it's not what fuels you and then you're going to feel stuck. You're going to feel stuck doing something that you never intended or wanted to actually do. And so for me over the years, it's funny to say this, but you could chase the money in disc golf and at the time when we started there was zero, but you often find that the money leads to you doing things and it's rightfully so, but as a service for somebody else and when that is your goal, you're going to burn out because it's going to lead you to do things that like I said, you never really desired to do or wanted to do and it becomes a chore. Quick example, photography was something I did for a while and I did it professionally for about seven years before I started doing that and I loved photography as a hobby, taking pictures just for the pure feeling of what you can emote and capture in a still frame. When I turned into a job and contracted out weekends and forever, it kind of led to this isn't what I initially wanted to do. So when it comes to the podcast, I wanted to talk about disc golf with my friends and I thought we would share the conversation with others and I believe after, you know, these four seasons, I've come to a place where I'm happy to do this whether other people enjoyed or not because it's what we enjoy doing, but there was a period of time where I started leading a little bit towards I have to do this to reach the product that other people want and I'm okay with that meaning because it's from a business perspective, it's not a great perspective I'm sharing from a business perspective, but I'm okay saying like, hey, this is what we want and those who enjoy it, we're glad that you do. And for me, in my life where I'm at right now, it's working for me and we do get quite a bit of positive feedback. So it's working, Ben. Yeah, and yeah, I can definitely attest to that, you know, we kind of do it the Sager stance or at least I do it because I love it, it's just something I love doing, whether, but I think even business, I think there's value in kind of being your own person and doing your own things and I think that's where you get fans because if you were trying to like kind of be overpolished and be kind of like, I guess, fake, not really a personality, just trying to cater to the audience, like you start, people start realizing that and it's kind of, you know, you start to, I guess, fizzle out whether rather than if you're just yourself, like you're saying, so even business wise, I think it's a good idea to just like do what you love and then, you know, some people might not like it, but you are going to get the people that do enjoy it. So what is the, give us the future plan for your podcast, Sager stance. Is there any goals that you have with it and such or I kind of mentioned earlier when you introduce me to the show, which was awesome, man with a plan. I have ideas and I am in no way trying to say, I think up as good of ideas as Steve Dodge, but I think I think up as, I think I think up as many ideas as Steve Dodge all the time, just generating ideas. So I have a thousand ideas that we could choose to try and start on the show or not. Changing the name, believe it or not, is extremely significant and that was something that we just went through as a transition period. I mean, it's a full, it's nearly a full rebrand and so I'm not immediately moving towards like, let's do the next shake up, but just to throw ideas out there. I mean, yeah, you could see the show take a significant twist to be more featuring on one certain type of, I don't want to say topic, but genre in disc golf. So instead of leaning or spreading out, hey, let's talk disc golf, pro tour, let's talk a disc golf talk, let's talk interviews, let's do like breaking a show up like that. It's very possible we end up rolling out and whether you're in this or not, it's up to you and others. But like, this is just me to spitballing like, hey, let's do a 30 minute on just, you know, the pro tour and the interview and then let's do a whole nother episode style, maybe two times a week it rolls out. But Ben, you and I know, I mean, we record that at one time, there's no way we're splitting up multiple days to like, to do more content because we can't stretch ourselves. Like those are ideas, bringing back more of the original segments that really kicked off our show, man on the street interviews, us being like, you know, laughing and sharing funny games and just bringing more of our personality than like to your point, trying to be more polished. So like things we're evaluating. What does our show be coming? But a big part of this is rolling the five hosts into it. That was something very unique for us to have to try to navigate and figure out. So I guess what I'm saying is we're kind of in this figure out how this is working stage, the last couple of months, we will analyze in the next month or two here when the actual tour season comes real close what that looks like. But anything you said, this is a movers and shakers thing. That's not because I think like I am the leader of that. But just like I mentioned with Steve Dodge, anything that stays the same just because it's how you do it is going to get old. It's talking to someone who owns a franchise, like a fast food franchise. And we were talking through they could keep everything the same for 20 years. The building starts degrading, the flooring, the internals in the place, the machines. They could run exactly the same. But all the stuff that wears down or just kind of gets old, right? The restaurant next door is upgrading, they have the new cafe, they got the digital ordering. People just start moving on because they're like, it's just old. You go, but it's how it works for us. It's how it works for us when we started, yeah, but things change and you got to figure out those changes and what works. And so I mentioned earlier, do it for yourself. But part of that, for me, is being innovative, it's thinking, it's always changing. It's trying to figure out what is new, fighting, fun. And so I do think the show is going to have changes, just stick around, go check it out if you haven't. But yeah, I think you're just going to see changes come slowly and surely all the time. Maybe we'll recycle some things as well, but nothing pressing right now. Yeah. You talked about how you have million ideas and some of them you accomplished and did, like with kids' disc golf. I'm going to start, let's podcast questions, more Matt Grant questions, because I think you got a lot to offer. What is one idea that you had that you wish you implemented or did that you just never did? And maybe now it's too late. Oh, baby. Oh, that is a tough one because literally I have so many that come all the time. Let me think. I feel like I'm trying, yeah, go ahead. I was going to say like, obviously, if it's something that you might in a future plan on doing, like obviously you don't have to share it, but I'm saying like, for example, you had this idea for a basket that was square, I don't know, or something like that. But that you like wish you like kind of went through with. Yeah, I don't think I had ever a product, although my brain always tried to think of products. Okay. Okay. Okay, so hold on. I just said I didn't have a product. And you said don't give away, you know, all of my ideas, but you know what, if someone runs with this idea, good for them, I've got a lot on my plate and maybe I'll never get to it. I had this idea for a beautiful way to display discs, and this was in the last six months or so. And you see shadow boxes and you're like, cool, like, that's nice. You scale different ways to display discs, but I started creating and actually designing a product 3D modeling and then prototyping it. And I was able to run it by Simon, I was able to run it by Steve Dodd. I think I showed it to you, got positive feedback from everybody. And then I actually moved like my house, I was in transition to moving the project came to a halt. You see what happens, but it's going to have an LED light option with a battery pack and just the, it's hard to explain it, but it's a circular frame. So it's not square because this is around and I think we need to have a circular frame. It looks beautiful. So there's a product that I'm working to bring to the masses. But again, I not really bring it with the intent of like, oh my goodness, this is a business that I'm going to make that I'm going to leave my job for it. I don't think that's who I am. I think I am. I like to generate the ideas. I like to see them come to be and then I'm ready to move on from them and they become what they become. In the past, I tried to do, it sounds so funny nowadays, but I don't know, 10 years ago, disc golf isn't what it is now and I was like, all right, let's do a tag league and I'm going to call it at the time, it was in Massachusetts, but it's a central Massachusetts bag tag league. And I set up an online option where on the back of these tags, it was like a QR code. I'm kind of making that up because QR codes weren't a thing either. It was a website, but the idea is similar to what a QR code would be today. And when you played somebody, you would just enter in who you played and who won. And it was this digital repository of who played who and who has what tag. And you can kind of see where each tag transferred from over throughout the year. So you could see how it went from this guy to this guy. And it was like something that I started doing and it kind of worked a little bit, but it was before its time. I think with apps now and everything else, it'd be a lot easier. But like big ideas, like you do the Expo. I don't think I ever thought of doing an Expo. But besides US juniors, the things that we pulled off there, I mean, that was a big one we pulled off. We had dreams of doing a junior worlds. The year before junior worlds was a standalone major championship, I'd have to go find it. Find our goals for the organization Kids Disc Golf that I did. We had in there, one of our goals was to run a standalone or the first standalone junior world championships. And then it was like three months later, the PDGA said, Hey, we're running the standalone junior world championship. So I don't know, man, that would be like, I'd have to, that'd be something I'd want to sit and think about. Because I'm sure I've had so many other ideas. I'd share them with my wife all the time. But anyways, yeah. So I didn't give you a lot there, but yeah, no, no, no, you gave me enough. So let's talk about Kids Disc Golf and kind of what was, what was the first was? So now obviously there's a bunch of, like you said, you kind of answered my question, but there's junior worlds now and a bunch of junior divisions. Was this not a thing when you first started Kids Disc Golf? And what was your idea and plan for Kids Disc Golf? And then tell us eventually why it kind of dissolved. Peter doubt, yeah. One other thing before I move on, this is my ADHD self here, but like we thought up for staggered stance, like generating ideas all the time. So just real quick, like I did judge that disc golfer. People actually, I should say people, the majority, large majority of people love that segment. And that's like an idea I had to think up like how do we do something that's different and fun, right? And so I thought that up and it could become its own thing still to this day, it could become its own thing. But yeah, so Kids Disc Golf, when Kids Disc Golf started, I can't say this with absolute certainty because I did not have my hand in every community in the United States or the world. But from what I knew at the time, there were no junior disc golf only tournaments happening. Now, again, there might have been a one off like somewhere, someplace, but like you didn't know about it. And my, at the time, five year old is like, dude, you go to, he doesn't say dude, he said dad, but he's like, you go to, you go to disc golf leagues, like each week, multiple, you play tournaments, like when do I get to play? And I was like, dude, that hit me. And I'm like, well, there's nothing for you, dude, you're gonna have to wait until you're like 12 or 13 before I bring you to a league. And people today would be like, really, like I bring my kid to league all the time. But back then, that was literally not normal and it was out of place. A lot of people felt like kids didn't belong at the local weeklies or tournaments. So the goal was simply to bring tournaments and we ended up doing regional tournaments. We ended up doing state tournaments for kids disc golf. And then ultimately, as like a culmination, the United States junior disc golf championship. And so no, they were not a thing, junior worlds was a thing. That's why Nate Sexton and I'm trying to think of the other names that have these junior world titles, Paige, shoe, they have those titles, but it was not a standalone junior world championship. It was always part of other championships. So like, here's the Amworld championships. Part of it is junior worlds. And there might have been 50 competitors, you know, for the whole thing. So it wasn't a thing. We said it deserves its own space. It's great to see that it's happened. Kids disc golf may have had a part in bolstering the excitement of junior disc golf around the country. I mean, we had so many people reaching out to us all the time asking to host tournaments in their area and we've tried to line up. At one point, Ben, we had state coordinators interested from each state in the United States signed up with us to say they would be happy to run a state series. So that leads me to the previous question as well, other big ideas. Ultimately, we wanted to host and try to make it simple, kind of like what the national amateur disc golf tour is doing, but we wanted to do it for juniors. And this was before national amateur disc golf tour. We said we need each state to run a series of events, culmination lead to the state championship, which ultimately leads to people, you know, coming out to play what we would call the kids disc golf championship. We started moving along. Like I said, we had a lot of interest. We were trying to figure out if this is something we really wanted to monetize fully. We had memberships. We had member numbers. We had minis with the numbers stamped on against sent out to people all over. Shout out to all those original people. And then we hosted two U.S. junior titles and the third was scheduled to happen at Maple Hill. We were at Smuggler's Notch, obviously world class facility, third one going to be at Maple Hill and the pandemic came. And that was one of the hardest decisions we ever had to deal with. We had hundreds of juniors and their families with vacation scheduled plans, the amount of money. It's incredible to think about how much money was going into this event, excited to come out to Maple Hill and we're watching the pandemic three months out with hope and then two months out. And then at some point you have to decide with what we know on the ground here, are we going to ruin people's year, either way, like if we cancel or we keep it on, what is this going to look like? Shout out to about six weeks out, I mean, extremely tough decision, but we saw the way things were trending. We saw what Massachusetts was doing for laws and they ratcheted it down even harder. I mean, even for outdoor activities, Massachusetts was incredibly strict with group sizes for outdoor activities. Long story short in there, we had the pull of the plug. A lot of people were sad, we were sad, not devastated but pretty, pretty sad. And that kind of deflated the motivation behind kids' disc golf, a fair amount. And as I mentioned earlier, we kind of looked at things and said, like, why are we doing this? We enjoy running these events, but this is turning into something massive and it's turning into more maybe than we ever wanted to handle ourselves. And instead of us quitting our jobs and going full time on this, we tried to get investors involved. There was a lot of interest there. I won't say names, but people related to investing in the disc golf pro tour. We had a lot of support, but it wasn't the right time. I think had something been started three years later, so meaning like maybe last year, we're at that same place instead of three years before. I think things could have been a lot different. Maybe I'd be full time disc golf right now, but the time and place for everything. And kids' disc golf is what it was meant to be. And without saying names here either, there are other people who have decided to take that name, kids' disc golf, and try to do something with it. And I think you may hear something about that in the near future here, but I'm excited to see the growth in the junior side of the sport for sure. Yeah, that's awesome. So as people have gone to the end of this podcast interview, they get to know you more and more that you had a lot of things going on, and you still got a lot of things going on. So before we let you go, any last shout outs or any future plans for anything, I could listen to you talk about business all day. Um, pop drop lock, that is not a business plan again, it's just another idea. Yeah, it's just another idea. If you listen to our episodes, you'll find it, but it's going to become its own standalone thing as well. It's a way for people to do a little bit of a fantasy disc golf weekly pickums, but the way you pick them is different than anybody else we know does it. And it's super fun. Check that out, pop drop lock. You can just do that by going to pop drop lock.com super easy. You're competing with hundreds of other disc golfers who just try to pick who's going to over perform that week underperform and maybe who you're going to get in the top 10 for sure. And it's just super fun and easy win prizes. That kind of a thing. That's another thing that we, I guess, a brainchild of mine. But shout outs would just be simply to you, Ben. You've been so dedicated for the past years to be a part of our show. I'm so glad you reached out when you did. We both happen to be Lester boys and it just so happened, it all worked out and it is becoming what it is. You are a mover and shaker. And so to have you as part of our show, it just brings a lot to that. Like Carl shout out to him as well, of course, the original co-host for the Nick and Matt show and doing what he's doing now in his own way, a mover and a shaker. He gets involved with big things and he's doing well down there with Olympus and Paul Macbeth and Dylan Cease's course down there in Florida. Shout out to my brother, Josh, who came on after being a listener for many years, still seeing the opportunity and seeing the fun of being a part of the show and then obviously massive shout out to Evan Kearns, taking Stapp Mando, him and his team together. We partnered really early on with Stapp Mando and he became a big part and a mover and shaker with Stapp Mando and now obviously being purchased by the Professional Disc Golf Association. And we're all in this together and it just kind of, I look back and I go, I don't care what happens with this. The fact that all of us somehow came together and we're pulling it off just for the fun of our own, whether people like it or not, it's like we enjoy it and I hope people can see the passion and the energy and just enjoy it for what it is. But shout out to everyone that helps make it happen. It's not just me, that's for sure. Yeah, and I'll give a shout out. I say this a lot, but you accepted me on the Stagger Sands literally changed my life for I don't think I'd be anywhere close to what I've accomplished so far, especially even with the expos, that first year just being on Stagger Sands for like a year or so, kind of getting my name out there and then those connections helped a ton for just people to trust that I can do something. And just the countless opportunities, I don't know if I didn't start on Stagger Sands, I don't think I would have as many opportunities like this golf daily. So yeah, I appreciate you always just lending me a kid that you kind of knew about, but you didn't know if you could actually pull off the things that he said he was going to pull off. But yeah, you took the chance and hope I'm forever grateful for that. Yeah, it is, now that you lay that out, it's crazy how like when we first were all on the show, how much things has changed in our lives and unrelated to the show. So it's absolutely, yeah, it's pretty cool. Good things came out of Leicester for sure, I mean Steve Dodge in the Pro Tour and then on a, you know, exponentially lower scale Stagger Sands, but yeah, at least we're out of Leicester. That's pretty cool. Yeah. And thanks for having me on Ben. Yeah, of course. And the expos. Talk about exponentially. And the expos. True. Yeah. So actually I'm going to make this claim that, you know, they have Silicon Valley of, you know, in San Francisco, where this were all the major tech brands, Leicester, Massachusetts is the Silicon Valley of this golf. Wow. Now I got more pressure to finish my product. You guys sit tight, I'll get that frame out to get the disc golf off. No, obviously that's not true, but it is kind of crazy. How many things in this golf start in Leicester is so weird. And I'm not giving out my address because I said I just moved, but I literally moved right into the actual neighborhood of Maple Hill appearance. I'm talking literal stones throw. And so being there, I have this new pressure of like, I live here, like in the disc golf mecca. So it's pretty cool. Again, thanks for having me on Ben. It's pretty fun being on this side of things, letting you produce an interview. Thanks. Yeah. No worries, Matt. Thanks for joining. This has been disc golf daily. We'll see you next Sunday. Thank you so much for watching. Please like, subscribe, comment and share. It really does help us grow. Yeah. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
