This week we're talking about Doctor Who, The Muppets, Nine Inch Nails, and Longlegs. Show music by HeartBeatHero and OGRE. Support the show!
Get up to 2 months free podcasting service with our Libsyn code OZONE
Ozone Nightmare
Culturally Curious
It's Friday, September 6th, 2024. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] All right, let's start off as we always do with our promotional segment, where I let you know that it is very, very easy to support our show if you are so inclined by going to supportourshow.com. And there you will find a wide array. What would you say? How many items, Lando, would you consider a wide array of options? More than three, would that be? I'm always curious about usage of words. This is not like a trick question, I'm just asking. >> No, if it's more than three, yes. >> That would be a wide array. >> Yeah. >> So you will find a wide array, and there's six. I just want to check because I actually could remember how many were there. So there are six items on that page that give you different ways to support. Wow, you know what? I haven't looked at these icons in a while. That's a pretty good job at those. Anyway, so supportourshow.com is where you can go and click on any of the boxes, and that will give you different options to support either the show as a whole or Lando individually through purchase of his novelizations. No, novelizations is wrong. It makes it sound like you converted some of the novels. >> Yeah, there's no movies. >> No. Well, it's the novelizations of your ideas. So, sort of, but not really. There's my link tree there that has all my art stuff on it, and the rest of it is kind of aggregate type of support options. So there you have it. And the only other thing I will say is that as far as I know, the code O-Z-O-N-E will still get you two months of free podcasting on Libsyn if you want to try out a failing business model. On that note, I look around. It's not going well for most people. Even though I think somebody else just got a Joe Rogan type of deal through Spotify or something. Spotify is really just still trying to -- I don't know, whatever the -- I am confused on what Spotify is aiming to do. Their business approaches are strange to say the least. I don't know. I don't get it. But whatever. I guess you could say that about most things now, where nobody knows what they're doing and they're flailing around desperately. It's kind of how everything sounds like human culture. You know, pretty much. Yeah. I don't know if I had anything to open. I don't think I did. I have something funny. We're on the last season of the female -- Yeah, we probably -- oh, good. Right. And my kids have asked if we can skip it. Okay, last season meaning -- Her last season before she transforms into -- Got it. Yeah. We watched the first season. Oh, you mean the -- all right, wait. You mean the Christmas episode where tenant and the new guy are both there? No, no, no, no. We are on the last season of the female doctor. Right? Yeah, doesn't he only become tenant for one episode? She becomes tenant at the end of the season. Yeah, but then it's just for the Christmas special and then the new guy takes over. That's what I meant. Yeah, then the tenant's got like three specials. Oh, really? Oh, you didn't realize that? Yeah, they did like three specials with him. No, I checked out the first season of Capaldi and I really haven't had any -- Oh, no, I did watch a couple of the Whittaker ones. I think I watched the first two when I was first. And that's the thing I didn't care anymore. When -- when Jack -- when Harkness shows up. I actually really enjoy -- Harkness is nice because he's -- his dynamic with newer doctors is kind of an interesting examination of the character -- of like both of them, really. Because he -- you know, he's seen a bunch of them now. So it's almost like -- like River Song when River Song deals with Tenet versus Smith versus Capaldi. Right? There's a different -- a different relationship. She realizes the same person, but it's not because, you know, he changes, right? So how people change in lieu of that is fascinating. So, you know, the doctor always gets new companions because it's an e-versality, a new face. It always seems to get new people, so you don't really get the full effect of it. But it's when he has to deal with past companions that I think things get interesting. So, like, I like it when Harkness shows up because Harkness has -- Harkness loves the doctor, but at the same time there's a kind of -- I'm an immortal as well, fucker. Like, you know, there's a sense of no bullshit to some degree. And, you know, Harkness still plays by his own rules, which I love. But, yes, we watched the first two seasons of -- Jesus, what was her name again? I almost forgot her name. Something -- Whittaker, Joanie Whittaker? Joanie Whittaker, Joanie Whittaker, yeah. So we watched the first two Whittaker seasons, right? And the first season, they kind of finger at what they're doing, but it's interesting that she has this -- the kind of the way the grouping -- her kind of comes together. And then when the two males leave, and it's just her and the -- Oh, actually, no, I just think the first two seasons are in the full group. And then this last season is just her and the Indian woman. And then they bring on a guy -- I can't remember what his name is -- but they bring on, like, a guy that they happen to meet. And it's this whole storyline where, essentially, there's, like, a reality bending wave that's going to destroy the universe and shit like that, right? We watched the first episode of that. And, like, we kind of -- we kind of cycle through things, and I can't -- I noticed that they did not want to go back to Doctor Who. And I was like, you know, hey, guys, what's going on? And they basically said, they're like, yeah, you know, we're not really feeling this season. They're like, you know, could we -- could we just skip to the last episode so we could just see her regenerate into 10 minutes? And I was really surprised by that. You know, because that's not generally something they do. So the fact that they went for it, my wife is, like, totally supporting them. She's like, yeah, I'm good with that. I was like, holy shit. And I'm trying to understand, because to me, that feels like some kind of weird failure on the part of Doctor Who. Because I haven't met anybody who's crazy about Jody Whitaker. And I'm trying to figure out if this is a female thing where people are like, I just don't like a female doctor. Or if this is that the writing just could not support the character, or that they just didn't like the personality. Because I mean, that happens. There's people who just don't like certain doctors based on how they -- I mean, people didn't like -- it was the fifth doctor with the one with the crazy coat. - Not the fifth doctor. - Sixth doctor. - Sixth doctor. - Yeah. - Sixth doctor, yeah. People literally like him. He's not really looked fondly upon, you know what I mean. - Well, and that does point to exactly one of the things you said. A lot of the people who didn't like that, because that has turned around. And people have understood now that it was the writing. That in many ways, what they did -- and this is funny because a lot of this echoes into modern Doctor Who, where people are like, they don't understand what Doctor Who is. They clearly don't know what they're doing. And a lot of that gets into that woke bullshit that people just want to make everything look like a white guy. But, I mean, it is. - No, because listen, there was bad writing in Capaldi. - And I love Capaldi as a doctor. - And Sixth doctor, when he started out, started to choke to death his companion and murdered somebody. And people said, this is not Doctor Who. That's one of the reasons that people were almost immediately against the Sixth Doctor. It was because he was acting so differently. - But the thing is, it can't always be the same person. That is the point of regeneration. - No, but I do understand, and I, to a degree, see the point of, and would agree with, the idea that you can't make it -- it's going to sound funny -- an alien character. - It is an alien character. - Well, you can't make the character unrecognizable unless -- - Yes. - And this is -- I've said this before. I'm going to keep saying it. Nobody's ever listening, so what's the difference? Why they don't do an entire season as a fake-out. Or I thought -- or even with the -- I don't know. I always say the ronai, but I guess you're supposed to say the ronai, which always sounds so stupid to me, but I guess that's how you're supposed to pronounce it. - Ronai? - I thought it was the ronai. - I was told by a British person that's supposed to be ronai. I thought in the show they said ronai. So I'm going to go with ronai because it sounds cooler to me. Whatever. It doesn't matter. A whole episode where the doctor's acting off and nobody understands it, and it turns out to either be the master or the ronai. That's the way to do it. And here's another thing. It's again, you and I have said this same thing. They should not be doing Doctor Who every year. They should be doing it at the most frequent every other year. And I wouldn't even do it that. I would make it every two or three years. - Oh, yeah. They'll never stop. - Well, that's the problem. - What you need, the way that they could keep doing it, right, is if you had a year of who, and then you had a year of who adjacent stories. So you had a year, you put the effort into something like Torchwood, or you put something adjacent to Doctor Who, because it's a big universe. There's so many characters in that universe now. You know what I mean? And you can have the doctor kind of floating in the background around. Sometimes with these characters, it's great when the characters get a little, you get a sense of people's point of view of them. Like with the Doctor, the Doctor has no idea. Let's head with Matt Smith a lot too. We're like Smith, who had no idea how scary he was. He had no idea how much the idea of the Doctor scared the crap out of people. You know what I mean? And it'd be interesting to have, flip it, so that you have a season of who adjacent stories where the Doctor is kind of whispered about, you know, you get a sense of the way the universe perceives him, right? Because some of those could be quite serious episodes. I mean, to some degree, he is like a boogeyman. I mean, he shows up, and he fucking does his shit, and he takes off, and he can turn the whole world upside down, you know? And I understand what you mean. There's kind of a sense of take your time to do it. But I mean, that's just not the way TV works. They're going to keep pumping them out. And the best thing you can do is to put more money into the writing. But here's another thing. Here's another aspect to it, which is, okay, if you don't want to have it where there's not something Doctor who relayed done, fine. And every other year, you do something like Sarah Jane Smith and K9 or whatever, where the Doctor's not kidding. Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Who adjacent stories? Right. Yeah, then do that every other year. And then you have something all the time. Yeah. I mean, and there's so many past assistants that have been gone on to do other shit. I mean, honestly, I want a whole season of Tenet with Rose Tyler in the alternate universe. I mean, that was Torchwood too. Think of Torchwood. Torchwood was great because it was not the Doctor. Before the specials, Torchwood was great. Well, yeah. I mean, Torchwood lost its way as most of the stuff does when you have to make it. I really enjoyed the first two seasons of Torchwood and how weird it would be. Oh, yeah. That was great. When the one guy became a fucking zombie. I think the first special was good. I think the first one was good and then it went to pieces. I think it was after that first one. Yes. That guy being dead. What was his name? I was a grant or something. Whatever his name was. Yeah. That guy was really good. That guy and that guy was a Pacific Rim. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. I think he's in Pacific Rim too as well. That's funny. Anyway. So, yeah. They wanted to skip. And so we're next time we watch who we're going to watch the last episode of Jodie Whitaker and then we're going to continue on. I feel bad because me personally, I don't think Jodie Whitaker was a bad doctor. No. I think that the showrunners had some ideas about what they wanted to do. And I think that they, early on, they tried to keep her from a lot of the who lore. I think it's interesting because to some degree, I think you define your versions of Doctor who by how they specifically deal with a lot of the same villains because a lot of the same villains pop up. And I think they waited for a while before they did that. I think they should have maybe started sprinkling them back in sooner. My wife said to me that she didn't like the Jodie Whitaker doctor because she felt like she didn't feel clever. My wife said she didn't feel clever and she felt like she was almost too neurotic. I was like, "Really?" And I can't tell if this is like a woman who just secretly don't want a female doctor because they like looking at a male doctor because that's a thing. There's a lot of people that like Matt Smith and a lot of people like Tennant. So it can be that they prefer to have a male in that role. But yes, she said she didn't feel like Whitaker came off as clever enough. She seemed almost too neurotic at times. And I didn't notice one thing about Whitaker that was different. You know, most doctors have this thing where you can push them so far and then you get to a point where suddenly you realize that everybody's in trouble because the doctor is down for that. I don't feel like Whitaker ever got there. And even when she did get there, either the way they wrote it or the way they just filmed it, she never seemed like with Tennant, especially late in the Tennant thing. There was always this fear that Tennant was going to fucking like get really angry and really fuck shit up. Like that happens especially once he has no assistance with him where like he starts actually changing, you know, the timeline. Like changing important things on the timeline. And he realizes that, you know what, I think there's a great speech where he's like, you know what, he goes, this is my time. He's like, you know, I'm not going to let people die. Nobody dies anymore. It's like, I'm going to do whatever I want. Nobody can stop me. There's always that fear with the doctor that, you know, when he gets angry, you know, and like Capaldi had that, they used that a lot with Capaldi and Clara, where like when Clara was genuinely in danger, Capaldi would do some fucked up shit. And there's a whole storyline about Capaldi trying to basically keep Clara from dying, which then fucks everything up. And I didn't like that they took it to the extreme that they did with Capaldi, but I didn't like that that the doctor had a point where he got scary. And I never felt like Jodie Whitaker was scary. I didn't mind it. I still enjoyed a lot of the ideas and the episodes and the things they tried to do. But the overall, I never felt like she had that aspect of her character where, you know, where people should be afraid, you know what I mean? Did you see the thing about the dog people, by the way, at all? The dog people in the show, you mean? Yes. Yeah, in the show. So there's a whole race of dog people and they're basically bonded with some random human. Yeah, I kind of like the idea, but I didn't see the episode or anything. It was silly. It was silly. But the way that it actually thought that the special effects on the makeup for the dog people was really cool. They look like, they look like more, they look like cheesier bookies is really how they look. That was quite funny. But yeah, so regardless of how you feel about it, yeah, my kids and my wife. Let's have a look. Let's see what we got here. I have said. Oh, I like that. Yeah. You have the dog people. Yeah, they look like, they look like ewoks that got a blowout. Yeah. Yeah. I'm okay with that. What's the game? It plays the piano in the Henson, in the Muppets. Oh. Ralph. Yeah. They look like they're related to Ralph. Yeah. Yeah. It's Ralph the dog. It's for alpha bear. No, no, he's no. No, he's a dog. You have to give Fuzzy bear. Fuzzy bear. Okay. But it, Ralph is the guitar playing, not guitar, but piano playing. Yes. Golf the dog. Sorry. I'm mixing it up. I think Fuzzy may play the piano too, but he's the comedian. Whereas, Ralph is like, Hey, how's it going? Let's play the piano. Ah, da da da da. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting to me that they want to skip ahead now. I'll be curious to see how they do the tenet now coming back. I just pulled up Ralph's Wikipedia page and... Lord. No, I mean, look, I love all the Muppets stuff. But I never, this is a really, really great description of his character. He's laid back and was cracking his humorous characterizes dead pen. And as such, he is one of the few Muppets who was rarely flustered by the show's prevalent mayhem. What a great set of words to describe the Muppets. The show's prevalent mayhem. Wow. Is that right? Oh, well, I read something about this. It said that it's, I think it's the 70th anniversary of the Muppets in general. Oh, yeah, it is because 1962. Yeah. And they said that Ralph is the one that has always been seen as the closest reflection of Jim Henson himself. And so he is the most important Muppet in many ways. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I did not know that. Yeah. Interesting. Well, I always like Ralph. I like all the Muppets. I don't dislike any of them. This is the most direct representation of Frank Oz. Sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, I watched the shorts that they did. You know, they did like the Muppet shorts. Yeah. They were like really quick episodes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I will admit that there was a few skits they did that were genuinely laugh out funny. I'll be honest. I like, I've liked everything. Even the lesser stuff. The Muppets are, they have never done something with the Muppets that I could say I don't like. Some is much more successful. Yeah. Some is weaker than other. But I'm telling you right now, when Miss Piggy and Tay Diggs go to get slap-sized. Oh, it's great. And that fuck, it's a Muppet. Yeah, it's a Muppet that does the slap massage. Yeah. And that thing lines up and smacks the shit out of Miss Piggy. I fucking laughed my ass off. I really, I think the Muppet suffers. The modern Muppet stuff largely suffers from an unfair problem that much of this has, which is a lot of the original voices don't do it anymore. The humor has changed because the original people aren't there. Now, if it's gotten worse, it's just not the same. Oh, it sounds like it sounds like it's the writing. Yeah. You could write those characters to be the way they were. All right. You're going to find some people understand what they were like. Okay. And so that's part of the problem is there are certain, it's hard, it's tough to explain this properly because it sounds, it's going to sound counter-intuitive in some ways. But because you're right to some degree that yes, good enough writing, good enough writers can overcome anything. But at the same time, there is an age out problem, which is a lot of the Muppet stuff, Henson, the people who collaborated with him at the time, they're from a certain period of time where there was a different type of creativity that you just came up with. Well, yeah. It's kind of, well, okay. So you can try to replicate it, but if you don't really have enough of those people left alive. Because remember, the original Henson group, there was like a carnival, there was a carny aspect to them. Exactly. They ended up as they went along. Yes. Whereas now everything has become very institutionalized. Right. It's the same way that like the first Star Wars movie, they were making up shit to make stuff. Yeah. Whereas now it's like they're, you know, everyone's got the formula and the CG and, you know, you're kind of sitting there going, oh, okay, okay, you know, where is the, where is the new ground? Right. And that, and that's what I mean is there, there is, there are some things that simply, I don't know that they can be replicated no matter how good your writing is because it's more than just the ability to comprehend the humor. It's to understand the source of the human. Yeah. It's the time of the place. Yes. It's why AI, if you fed all of Jim Henson's, whatever into AI, it's still never going to make his stuff because it doesn't have his life experience. So yes, it'll understand and replicate, but it cannot, it cannot inhabit. It can only imitate. That's the reason it doesn't work. And so yeah, the, the marimup it's tough to me is always going to be a little lesser because I can tell something's missing, but I adore them up. It's so much. And they, and they, they've kept 75 to 80% most of the time of what makes it work. And that's enough. Do I miss that 15 to 20%? Sure. You know, I know Kermit doesn't sound the same as he did in the movies. He just can't. Nobody can do it the same. And it's, and it's not just the voice. It's the voice with the performance. Like there is something not there that nobody can get. It's a different actor. Yes. Playing the character. But unlike some idiots, I'm not like, oh, it's not Jim Henson, so it can't be good. Fuck you, Jesus Christ, man. Yes, it's not the same. It doesn't mean it's not good, just because that one thing you enjoyed is missing. It's not that fundamental. You can still have the muppets. And there does have to be an evolution because marim audiences, like your kids are going to find different things funny than we did. Yeah, the audience will change and they may not be that big. Listen, when I was a kid, I love braggle rock. My kids gave two shits about braggle rock. Same here. Yeah. I like braggle rock too, but you're right. It's not for modern kids. Yeah. And it's not because modern kids can't find things funny or that their humor sucks. No, no, it's different. Because our humor was different. It's different. Yeah. There are kids cartoons now I've seen. I've seen a lot of kids cartoons. Or I watch them and I go, "Why are you watching this?" Although... Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I heard something very meta the other day. Something that I know, I was talking to someone, I'm being vague specifically because I don't want to make them feel bad. I was starting at some recently and they were talking about how we were talking about kids watching other people play video games and how that we feel. I still think that's kind of weird, right? Because why watch them when you can play them, right? And this person told me that the other day they came home and they found their child who is, you know, older teenager watching a video of themselves watching a video of people playing video games. To what end? I have no idea. Apparently they were watching it. I was trying to understand what the hell is going on. And apparently they were watching it because they were amused. But neither I know the person I was speaking to could decipher where the amusement was, what the point was. It just felt so, like, it just felt so meta. Well, okay. You know what? All right. I shouldn't. So I kind of, when they were watching the other person, of course, this is asking questions you don't have the answers to, but the answer to me is, we're, I don't know, I just heard your phone. Oh, sorry. I didn't remember the last time your phone interrupted you. Yeah. I'm usually pretty good about it, but anyway, anyway, the thing, because I, when I, like, I was editing one of our videos, and so, you know, there's parts where you and I are talking. Yes. I was wondering if it's because he's, we do funny things in our video games, and then you go back and you watch us, we will, like, I'll go, I have gone back to see something that we did that was very funny. Yeah, I've watched the Ghost of Tsushima Bear episode a few times. The bear thing, yes. That's funny. That falls apart. Yeah. Yeah. But in that respect, we're watching a past version of ourselves play a video game. We're not watching a video of ourselves laughing about the video of the, the, the bear event in the Ghost of Tsushima. Well, like, it's, it's very meta that it's like, it's like one more, it's once more displaced, you know what I mean? You kind of wonder, like, but only if, I mean, it is sort of the same, though, because a lot of, I mean, we are averse to video in many cases, right? So we don't have, because a lot of what people do with gameplay videos, is there, I mean, having our faces on it. Because many people, when they play video game, when they, when they do reaction videos or play video games, they have a camera that's on their faces so that you see them as their play. That's what I mean by it. That's, that's, that's, and in that respect, yes. I am averse to that. Yeah, that's what I mean, not averse to video itself, but averse to ourselves appealing. No, no, no. I'll tell you right now, right? If somebody contacted us and said, hey, we want to pay you to play video games, we want a camera on your face, right? Oh, whoa. Okay. You're bringing money into a lot of these people are doing this for middle. No, no, no, no, but, no, but I, I'm, I'm drawing my line, right? If someone offered me money, right, then I would totally do it, and that would give me reason to make sure that I was, you know, dressed, not looking like a total psychopath, right? What I'm referring to, though, is many younger people, by default, put themselves into their videos, whereas we do not. That's what I'm saying. Well, because I think every, I think a lot of younger people are chasing fame. Well, also, a lot of young people, I was having a conversation with some parents, and we were talking about like what your kids want to do when they grew up, and you know what a lot of their kids had said to them? Yeah. Influencer. I want to be famous. Well, sure. Well, I was just like to say. And they were like, yeah. Oh, anything. Because many, if you think about modern children, including your own and, but anybody, yeah. You and I, when we were young, having our pictures taken was not a thoughtless process. You had to have a camera with film, focus it. And it developed. Yeah, there were multiple, not obstacles, but there were multiple steps to get that thing accomplished. Whereas now, this has been said by many people. Oh, photography is cheap. The most photographed and the children who are, who don't even consider cameras to be anything. That's one of the reasons they don't think about their privacy at all, is because they think they don't have any to begin with because they've been photographed so much. Yeah. So yes, in that way, when I say a verse to video, what I mean is it's not our first thought is to put a camera on our faces on while we're doing something. Right? Yeah. We record everything audio-wise. So to some degree, it is the same difference. It's just not video. And you edit it when it gets too private or personal. Yes, exactly. But my first instinct is when we start a game, I, if I forget the record, like, "Ah, shit." Because, you know, I, I, they're running for something funny. So to some degree, I think that's where if you are, I have listened to stuff where our audio is funny and I will laugh at it, knowing it's us. So in that same way, watching a video of yourself, if something funny happened, makes sense. If they're just staring at themselves as they sit there with their mouth slightly, a jar drooling, watching something, that's some video-drum shit. And I don't know what that's- Well, honestly, honestly, when I heard about this, it felt very video-drum. It felt very like meta where it's like, "Okay, I'm going to watch a video of a video." You know, like, and my worry is that it will get more bizarre before it gets less bizarre. I mean, like, there's always a, there's always a shtick. There's always a, a, a fetish. There's always, everybody else is always going to be somebody who has a thing for something weird. Right? Sure. So, and then that thing becomes normalized over time. So, you know, at first it was weird to watch other people playing video games. And now it's normalized. You know, and now it's like, and now people video themselves watching other people play video games. Okay, that's becoming normalized. But then we've got the next step where it's like, "I'm watching a video of myself, watching a video of people playing video games." It's like, "How far does that go up the ladder?" You know? Yeah. Yeah. And, and what does that, what does that say about us as a- I don't know. That part, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. It does culturally say something about us. Like, I have begun to wonder how we will culturally evolve in the next, like, hundred years. Like, I'm, I'm not even looking beyond that. Just the next hundred years, I think we're going to get really weird. We're going to get way weirder than we are now, especially in like the most developed and, quote unquote, richest countries. I think it's going to get weird, unless there's a world war, at which point things might normalize after that. And that's terrible to say, because I don't want us to have to go through a world war. But it's one of those things, you have a world war, a lot of people die, shit gets really fucked up, and then people go, "Oh, man, you know what? It's just nice not to be at war anymore, you know what I mean?" So we'll see, we'll see what happens. But yeah, I felt that was very meta, and hearing about it, I was like, "Whoa." Well, yeah, depending on what the actual, see, the thing is, I also don't know exactly what the circumstances are. Are they slack jaw watching it? Are they giggling, because they said something funny? Yeah. And that's the part I don't know. Yeah. And literally... But it is weird, listen. It is weird, though, to walk in and see that, because it is something, like you said, it's very viewed from war. Out of context, yes. Yeah, it should be like... Yeah, out of context, it's got to be very strange, and that's where it's like, my first question would be like, "What are you doing?" But not talking down, because then they're going to get defensive, but it's just, "Hey, what are you doing?" Oh, I'm watching this thing, because I had this weird reaction to this video game. Hey, give me words. Listen, it can be totally worse. You can walk in and have your child masturbating to a video of themselves masturbating. Well, hey, listen, look. Yeah. That's... I'm talking about awkward, you know. It takes all kinds to make a world, you know, whatever. Seriously, I try not to... No, but that's the point. It does take all kinds. Right. But the kinds, I think, is advancing, like, we're getting, you know, more versions of things. Well, it's hard to say. I don't know what's going on. No, neither do I. You know, I think I said to you the other day that sometimes I wish I could, just for a few moments, plug my brain into, like, the collective subconscious. Oh, the zeitgeist. Yeah, sure. Yeah, the zeitgeist. And then I said to you, I was like, "But my head didn't probably just explode." Yeah. Probably. But I am curious, you know. Well, it's... You know what? I was at the... I went to the... I was it called King of Prussian Mall the other day. Yeah. Which is, like, one of the largest malls on the east coast. I've never been. And it was on the way back for something else we were doing. And I stood to my wife and was like, "You know, maybe we should go check this behemoth out." 'Cause I am culturally curious, right? Sure. And... Totally curious. And outside of the fact that that is one of the biggest fucking malls I've ever seen, there was a moment in there where I looked down the hall, you know, like that giant hall space where all the stores are. And that should seem to go on forever. Like that is a... Yeah. Genuinely big mall. Big place. I... I... I don't understand. I'd be in there when everything was closed, wouldn't it? Yeah. But also, I... I'll be curious to see what that place turns into when, you know, shopping malls go away, right? But watching younger people there, and the way they behave, the way they move in packs... I mean, we always move in packs when we're younger. But like, just watching the behavior and the things that they find funny, and the usage of phones, and like just watching the behavior, like, "I'm fascinated." But I also know that everything kind of, and I think this is the part that's scary, because everything builds on itself, right? Every generation is built on the previous generations. So every generation has the possibility of getting a little weirder, or getting a little more conservative, or getting a little more. It's always a little more something, because nothing stays the same, nothing static. So there's always this kind of fascination in me where it's like, "Okay, where is... What direction is this going to advance?" You know? And it's going to advance in a lot of directions at the same time. But you know, there are certain things that become kind of movements that are some musics that become popular. There are things that will be what the next generation looks back on, you know what I mean? And I'm always fascinated by what that may or may not be. You know, what gets carried forward, what's become the thing that, you know, like everyone looks back at the '80s, and what do we remember at the '80s? Well, there's fucking big hair, and lots of cocaine, and bright colors, spandex. I mean, like, you know, Miami vise, loafers with no socks, like there's all these things that carry forward, every generation has that. So you're always kind of curious as to what, if you can predict what the things that carry forward will be, or what will become sort of odd little relics of a time. There's lots of stuff from the '80s that, unless you're from the '80s, most people don't even fucking know about. Because they're these little relics, they aren't important, they haven't been folded up into the cultural zeitgeist that, you know, and there's a really great meme, I'm sure you've seen this, where someone says they have a picture, and it's like what everyone thinks the '80s look like, and it was like these brightly colored room with posters and every rock band, and then the next picture is what the '80s actually look like. And it's like shag rug, and with paneling, and you know, it's like, you know, very specific parts of the '80s look this way. Most of it looked like this. But it's these pieces that carry forward that become the thing, you know, so it's like, you know, in 2040, 2050, 2060, what are people going to look back and be like, oh, you know, the 2020s, ooh, aren't anything that, what is this, the 2020s would be 2010 to 2020, so now we're in the, oh, we're in the 2030s now, aren't we, 'cause it's 2020 to 2030, yeah, we're in the 2030 generation, I guess. Yeah, this would be the, what is it, no, that would be 2010, so we are in the 2020s, 'cause it's the decade before, this is the '90s, the '80s, yeah. So yeah, I'll be curious to see what people look back, and what maintains the identity of the thing, and what just becomes these little relics, 'cause I think about stuff in the '90s that you talk to people about, and like, nobody, unless somebody was, like, there, they have no fucking idea what you're talking about, they're like, what, like, zip drives. Does anyone remember zip drives anymore, people, except for people who were like, using computers in the '90s? No, no normal, no typical person who is not overly interested in nostalgic elements, or retro tech, or whatever, or was from that time, probably knows anything about it. Yeah, and the thing is, like, a lot of cartoons now, people don't watch the old cartoons, they watch the new cartoons, or the new versions, so like, no one's watching the original Batman animated adventures, they're watching the new Batman animated adventures, right? And it's that kind of thing, where it's like, people don't want to even go back so far to discover stuff. I get to run the bookstore all the time, where I go to the bookstore, and what you've got is you've got the authors, you've got the best of authors that are big, but then you don't get the other work, so like, I always try to see if I, I always try to judge a bookstore based on, if it's got sort of like, some of the big books for me, so like, a snow crash there, there's no romance there, but the funny thing is, like, no romance is there, of course, because your answer is a, basically a classic science fiction at this point, which is weird in itself, because I remember reading that not long after it came out, but then you don't get anything else, like, Frank Herbert, you can find tons of dune, and all this fucking dune books, but as far as the bookstores are concerned, that's the only thing Frank Herbert wrote, and I know for a fact that motherfucker wrote a lot of weird shit, and you don't get that, that gets lost, that becomes something that you have to hunt for, and culturally, that's what it is, is that there are these cultural, there are the cultural milestones that everyone remembers, right, but then anything beyond that, you're like, oh shit, that happened in the 80s, that happened in the 90s, right, so you know, I think watching, watching people play video games is, what would you say that started, is a very popular thing on YouTube? To watch video games? Yeah, to watch other people play video games. Well I would guess, I mean Twitch largely launched as that type of thing, so that's when it certainly was getting big, so let's see when Twitch launched. Twitch launched in 2011, so, yeah, just 2010. Yeah, because it says right here, "Focuses on video game livestreaming," so that, so Twitch, so you have to figure if Twitch was launched as that, that means really it'd probably been around for five or six years, so, oh yeah, here we go, initial growth 2007 and 2013, so that makes sense. Yeah, and now it's gone beyond that and it's become something that you see on YouTube all the time and it's all over the place and lots of kids do it. Yeah, you know, and you're like, okay, you know, so the question is psychologically speaking, what's the next step to that? Well, the interesting thing is, the thing that I would have, at one point, guest would be next, has already happened and went away, which is people live streaming their whole lives. That actually predated watching video game streams. Well, I have that, I have that in my book. Yeah, like Justin TV, which I think actually is what Twitch started as, that was a thing where somebody filmed themselves all the time and that faded out. So there's people in my book called the livestreamers and what they basically have is they've got a drone with like a little camera and a light and it follows them around. Yeah, and people do that. That's here now because you can have a drone that just tracks you and it walks around. But it had its time and it strangely never, it never really, I think I know why. I think I think I have a theory on the reason, which will make complete sense, which is, if you watch somebody all the time, you're going to see all their faults. Whereas if you watch their selected things and I think you can't organize it if they see everything. Well, right. And I think that's not only from the person filming themselves perspective, but I think the audience doesn't want that either. I think people want that perfected version of somebody. Well, because if if you see somebody and their life is as crappy as yours, then why are you going to watch them? Right. Yeah, you want something that you want something that looks better. So you can you can like lust about it. Well, also a lot of these people are playing characters. And so you'll see them break character. Oh, that. Yeah, that gets hard. Yeah. You know, because there are the it isn't interesting that was it parasocial relationship thing where viewers or fans think they know the person like they like you're like you're like you're like you're a person. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that they're actually because they're where people think you're your character. Right. Right. Same thing. But even a lot of these people who are just personalities, you know, they think they're your friends. They're not really your friends because you don't ever actually see them. Oh, but I see Conan O'Brien on TV all the time. Exactly. Right. There's that thing, which is a it is a very human thing. I don't understand that. Well, not only that, but it's not it's not actual familiarity. Well, but there there is this and it's it's an interesting thing to to delve into and really explore from a psychological perspective. More and more. There were points where you know, you want an early example of this is sure. J.D. Salinger. We call it the catcher of the rye. Right. People used to show up at Salinger's house. This is why his address became like unmarked and shit. And he was like kind of hiding. People would show up at his house and be like, I read your book and I totally connected with you. I understand your book and Salinger would have to be like, dude, get the fuck out of here. I mean, Salinger was not it was not the kindest when it came to shit. Yeah, honestly, he probably was like the first 30 times. And then after that, he was just like, fucking get out of here. But people that catch on the rise, one of those books that people read and they're like, I totally get I totally get on, you know, and they think that they somehow know the author, which drove Salinger up a wall, which I mean, knowing a little bit about Salinger, maybe he deserved to be drove, put up a wall. But sure. But either way, I don't know him any better because everything is secondary. No, the man. But the idea that you would know him just from reading one of his books. You know, well, and the thing is that in the modern context, what makes this even worse is that a lot of people who do this stuff, like Salinger, right, wrote a book, people identify with the books, they thought they knew him, right? That wasn't Salinger going on a live stream and saying, Hey, everybody, I love all of you. And you all are put, you know what? But you know what? No, Salinger, Salinger is my model for the recluse writer. He wrote a book and then he fucked off. Right. Well, but that's what I'm saying is a lot of these people now. Yeah. They, and I'm not saying any of them deserve it, or themselves, but there is a level of encouragement to it. Yeah, that's the problem now for writers as a writer, you can't just have a book, you have to have a book and you have to go out there and you have to have a Twitter presence and a video presence and interviews and get out there and have people and it's like, yeah, that's, that's, I, I grew up and I just wanted to be a Salinger type, not an asshole mind you, but just write stuff and be left alone. You know, and actually had somebody on a recent art stream. I was doing ask why I didn't have more subscribers. And you're like, did you blame me just blame me? No, no, no, no. I said because I don't do promotion. And part of that is because I don't, I have very specific things I don't say, not as in I'm hiding things, but I'm very careful not to say anything that makes anybody think that the line between where I am and where they are is less visible or is more. Yeah, no, it is less visible. Yeah, you're not telling that you love them. Yeah, I don't get to be able to say, hey, everybody and love you all. Right. I don't smash that button. Yeah, that's the other thing. This is, I'm like, yeah, I'm terrible at this stuff. I don't market anything. I never, I almost never, I think I say jokingly, I've said subscribe or something. That's why that's why this whole reading my books thing on YouTube is just very strange to me because it's kind of like, yeah, it's just feels, it just feels weird. I'm not that type of person. But, you know, I figure why not try it. Yeah, but that's. But then you become a character. And that's where I think somebody watching themselves is because a lot of the people that they watch are are, it's not that they are actually watching themselves, but it looks that way. It sort of appears that way. I don't know how, I don't know how to describe it exactly. But when I see a video and I, I don't like watching videos where somebody's face is down in the corner. I don't like it. I like just watching, I mean, I don't, I don't ever watch videos of people just playing games. I watch kind of scripted stuff where somebody's reviewing a game or whatever. But I've seen, because every time you log into Twitch, which I have to do, listen, I'm going to tell you right now, reviews are different. No, I agree. That's what I'm saying. I don't get that. I don't get the whole thing. I've tried to watch the couple of times and I've never understood it. But when you log into Twitch at first, it by default starts playing a video. Right. So a couple of times I've looked at these for a second just to be like, has anything changed with this? No, it's the exact same crap. It's always been. But there's these people and they're kind of performing in that corner. Maybe. Yeah. Right. But when you look at that, there is this weird thing where they seem, they are, in a sense, watching themselves because they have to know. They can see their own video. They know what they're doing. They're seeing themselves the way people see a modelers. I mean, people when you FaceTime, somebody exactly see yourself on the screen. Yes. Or when you're watching, if you watch anything that's, that's produced for like a big network or whatever, they can see themselves so that they know whether they're leaning or whatever their hairs on fire. They have a monitor that shows them. That's why a weather person, you don't watch a weather report. They have a big map of stuff happening behind it. That's not there. That's a green screen. And so what they're doing is they're looking, you notice they're always looking off to the side. Now sometimes they have it in front, but a lot of times they'd be looking off as they're motioning and they're a little quicker and they're seeing themselves as you see them on a monitor. This is the same thing. And so to a degree that, that communicates out, hey, I, it's okay to watch yourself. So I sort of get it where somebody who watches a lot of that would start to watch themselves watching it because that's what the person they're watching is. It's almost like one of those infinite mirror effects where eventually you'll watch yourself watching yourself, watching yourself, watching yourself, watching somebody. It could get to that point. That's what I mean. Yeah, that's what I mean. Is that word headed? I could almost see that as being an art installation where somebody records themselves over and over and over. I'm sure it's been done already. I'm sure. Well, right. That's so I sort of, I sort of get it and I don't know if people who grow up watching that stuff understand what it is. So if that's just normal, it's like people who watch like something like top here and don't realize that it's not real. Cars are real. But they're not they're playing characters, caricatures of themselves. Well, another, a great example is the Mythbusters guys. Everybody just assumes that they're friends. They don't like each other at all. Oh, I just read that the other day about how they're saying it's not that they didn't like each other. No, they just they don't. They have never socialized. They would never socialize. They are utterly different people. Yeah, they were just they worked really well together. Yes. In the in the context of the show, but there was no point where they ever talked or hung out after that. I was explaining that to my kids the other day about how because we still watch Mythbusters about how the two of them were never friends. And my my daughter especially was like, well, of course, they're friends. Look at them. And I'm like, no, they just worked together. They just worked together and they know each other works. Like they were never friends outside of work. And honestly, the more I read about Heineman, he's a fascinatingly weird guy. Oh boy. Yeah. And like really, like the opposite of Savage. Oh, like there's multiple things that Savage has done in his YouTube channel talking about this because he's very upfront about it. Neither of them has any ambiguity. It's not bad. Yeah. They're really bad about each other. No, it's not. It's not bad. It's they have very different views of their lives outside of work. But within work, they compliment each other perfectly. And so within the work, they were they were friends working. In other words, they they both had mutual respect for the work they were doing. And we're working towards the same goal. They were friendly co functional co workers. Exactly. But that's it. But once the work stopped, then so did their so did their commingling or whatever. Done. I think in fact, I think the the co hosts were probably friendly or with each other than the two of them. It's yeah, generally seems that way. Yeah. Yeah. Whose names I can't remember now. Jesus. I don't know. It was a Tory, Tory Grant and a woman. I don't remember that woman's name. Oh, Carrie, Carrie, Carrie Byron. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. But the characters. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's funny is when we first started recording this, I think that because we didn't understand what we were doing, you almost assume a character of yourself. Plus the massive amount of caffeine that I was ingesting earlier when I was doing the show. Oh, no, no. Yeah. It was definitely it was different because then over years, like, yeah, you realize, you know, you just, you just realize you're talking. You just wait where you're like, we're just talking. I don't, I don't think, I don't think either of us ever really were assuming a character. Oh, no, we were just louder versions of ourselves. Yeah. And we were, and we were trying to do a show that seemed like other shows, like with the topic list and stuff like that. But I don't think we ever were. I've gone back and listened to mostly just because I like to remind myself at times how horrible my audio used to be because I get very upset about it. I still, I still sit here and go, maybe I should spend $1,000 on a microphone so I could sound better. And I realize, no, I'm not going to sound any better. This is my voice. What am I going to do? There's nothing, you know, if anything, I should get a problem. I'm the problem. Yeah. Problem existing keyboard and chair, you know, I'm sitting here thinking to myself, Jesus, this microphone is too sensitive. Yeah, well, right. So yeah, that's, yeah, there is that too. But damn, I haven't thought what the hell was my thought. There was something about the thing about characters without a camera board. It was shit. Well, I mean, we just, I think we were early on because you don't know what you're doing. You kind of just play up yourself to some extent. And then as time goes on, you're like, what am I doing? There's no reason to play myself on this. This isn't going anywhere. We're just, we're just having a fun conversation about our shit. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's kind of just you just give up. And anything though, doing it repeatedly made us better at not having dead air. I think there's anything early on, there was a lot more dead air because we just weren't used to the, the, I guess just doing it. Well, you have the rhythm didn't wasn't there. There were certain things like that. You hear it a lot still in, I was listening to something earlier, and it was a calling show. Oh, so somebody calls in, I was listening to a sports thing. And so for a while before the baseball game started, they just had the, you know, where people could call and a bitch about the Yankees for a while. And because they were New Yorkers, they inevitably did. And the thing is that they would hear the host and the people like talk over each other, and they both stop at the same time because there's a delay, you have to, and that's something you start to figure out. When you do this for a while, as you, you understand, that is a big, that is one thing about not having video that I might start doing more video with people that aren't you, is you don't have the visual cues if you haven't worked with somebody a lot. So if you're watching somebody and you see them stop talking and kind of, you know, sort of recede a bit from the phone. Well, you know, they're done. Right. And you and I know we're are, you know, we'll talk over each other. It's fine. And we know when to stop and when to keep going. Well, we don't have that kind of make it you make a noise kind of letting the other person know that you have an idea. Right. And then let them finish. Yeah. And so that's when you don't we have somebody else who doesn't know the dynamic, the visual side of it is immensely helpful. So I understand why a lot of people do the video, even if they don't necessarily because a lot of people have said the same thing. Well, I'm doing video, but it. And I understand it now because there are visual cues that you understand through conversation that you don't have all the audio only stuff. Kind of an interesting visual thing. You know, Kim deal from the breeders? Sure. Yeah. Okay. So Kim deal never appeared on the cover of an album until very recently, she just put out a solo album. And it's the first time she's like 60 waters and like that. It's the first time she's been on the cover of an album. And she's that's because when you were when she was younger, she was in the pixies. And I can't remember if it was the photographer or the person who was just putting the album together said that only pricks want to be on the cover of the album so that people would know their faces. Right. And so they just never did it. So she's never been I mean, she's been in music since the fucking pixies. And she's never been on a movie on an album cover until now, which I think is really fascinating. Daff punk, right? Oh, yeah, I mean, I still don't know what they look like. Well, there's pictures of them from when they're very young. Oh, I know that. But what I mean is like, I never bothered to find those going to say and I also give it shit. So it's fine. It's like I'm OK. Yeah, not knowing what they look like. Right. You know, it was it who's the Sia. She's Sia. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then since she put it on, you haven't seen her face in years. Yeah, you know, and she basically said in an interview that this way it doesn't matter what she looks like because you don't know. She can age any way she wants as long as she still sounds good. She's got the wig. And I'm kind of like, yeah, you know, there's no reason why there's no reason why a performance artist should have to present. If the music is good enough, then, you know, Daff punk can be robots. Sia can be a giant wig. Sure. And life goes on. Yeah. You know, yeah. That's I think that's seeing that punk never did anything to how people like them. No, I mean, there's still there's two that are still separately doing music now. Anyway, are they? Yeah. Yeah, I think they're I think one of them is doing things. I'm not surprised. I just don't know. A lot of people. Oh, did you see nine inch nails is doing the next trauma movie? The soundtrack? Yeah. No, you know what? Honestly, it's gonna be another case of where everything about the movie except the movie is gonna be better. No, no, Trent Reznor. Trent Reznor. Trent Reznor. Trent Reznor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I actually really like his soundtracks. Oh, so do I. I just I just feel like this is okay. They couldn't get that punk back because they're gone. So they went for somebody else. So they figured somebody another big name. Yeah. Where the soundtrack is is almost guaranteed to be good, even if the movie sucks. I still listen to that soundtrack a lot. Oh, I love that soundtrack. But that's what I'm saying is the smartest movie made with Tron Aries or Tron three, whatever you want to call it, is getting nine inch nails because like I said, if nothing else is it called? If they've been named it? Yeah, it's Tron Aries. Yeah. Aries. AR. Yes. Yes. Yeah, like God of War is the same guy is no, it's no, no, no, strangely, he's not back. But Jeff Bridges is what? Yeah. And Jared Lido is the lead. So that's a problem. But yeah, it's a shame because you know, they should get God, what's his name? Killian Murphy because Killian Murphy was the son of the bad guy for the first one. Right. Yeah. Well, now there's now I think Jared. I tried to lead him. Jared Lido is like the kiss of death lately. Boy, is he? Let me tell you it's so it's a shame to because like it's I said that I think he's a bad actor per se. It's just that he's one of those actors that the he seems to either have like the dial only goes to 11 or like, you know, not. I mean, the good thing is he's playing a villain. So he's okay. Okay. Well, then maybe as a villain, it'll be okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was Jeff Bridges, the hero. I don't know. And the only other thing that I think I don't know what the I don't really know what this I don't think they've released a lot of what the story is. But Evan Peters is also in it who I like. So I'm assuming he's the hero. Because basically the four people that they've named that are in it are Leto, Bridges, Greta Lee and Evan Peters. And Lido says that he plays Ares, the master of the grid, a program looking for a way to make the world his own perfectly. Well, that sounds like a villain. I mean, I assume. And they said it sort of picks up where the other one left off, which I don't know what the hell that means. Yeah. Yeah. But they said rubber that would never get made. So I'm curious what it'll look like. I don't care. I like Tron Legacy. I enjoyed it. I love Tron Legacy. I think it's great. In fact, the only use to the Sabretruck that I actually think looks good is I saw someone who painted their Sabretruck to look like a Tron vehicle. Okay. And I was like, you know what? As a, as in, as a bad graphic 80s truck, it looks good. Oh, but I mean, Jillian Anderson's also in it. So okay. How many interesting? Now I'm in. I mean, I was in anyway, but I'm more in now. Yeah, it's, it's, it'll be curious to see what they do with it. I mean, listen, I we were, we were both unsure what they were going to do with the second one and second was very enjoyable. So maybe this will also be enjoyable. You know, I, but I didn't mind Flynn's son. Was it had Garrett headland? Yeah, I thought he was pretty good. You know what? He was like a better Anakin Skywalker to me. And look, there's no reason to think he might not show up. You know, this is, this is the thing of modeling. It's just because Bruce Boxlight isn't there still alive? He is, but there again, you know, so who knows? Who knows? Yeah, I know, but this is the, this is the age of cameos. This is the age of bringing things back. So I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. Especially now that Disney made as much money as they did on, on Deadpool, and that movie was basically just, you know, one call back after another. Like I think that things that make money inspire other people to try to do the same shit. So Disney saw they made money with Deadpool. I wouldn't be surprised that they're like, okay, bring back as much shit as we can from the first Tron movie. I mean, Jeff Bridges in it. Jeff Bridges is supposed to be dead. Right? So is this supposed to be like a AI shadow? I don't know. I don't know. Hey, listen, soundtrack will be good. I mean, this thing has been started and stops up. Yeah, that's right. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's what I thought a lot of soundtracks for movies that I've never watched. No matter what, I am relatively sure the soundtrack will be good. Yeah. Yeah, there was a big reveal that in the last two weeks was pretty recent. But yeah, it's good music. Yeah. It's so funny too, that like, you know, the, the, wow, speaking of great, remember my phrase about prevalent mayhem? Well, I found another one that's a good description of nice nails, nice nails, Trent Reznor's industrial indie rock group of many incarnations. That's great. He was like a, I just remember him as being the angry metal goth from my youth. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and then having like a hole. Come on. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, exactly. And having it evolve into this is very funny. Although I have to say one of my favorite pieces of music that he's done is he did, he started making music with his wife. And yeah, I read something about the sun. They had a band. I think, hold on. Let me find it. They had a band and it's called, it's called how to destroy angels or something like that. It's actually quite a fun name. There you go. Hold on. Where is it? And they did a really great cover of is your love strong enough from the, from legend. There you go. Yeah, machine. What a great album name. How to destroy angels is the name of the band he formed with her. And they did a cover of is your love strong enough from legend, which was, I think they did that with, but I can't remember who that was with. Who did the original. But either way, I love that song. I love the original. And I love the way they did it, which is really cool. But yeah, and the funny thing about Trent Reznor is that like he's one of the, he was one of the original guys where the whole band was just him. Yes. He did all the music and then he brought people on. Yeah. Yeah. He did every aspect of it. That was that was the big thing about him. And I saw. Except when he told us the thing is he was, it was him and telly toward and then it was other people and then it became that was the band. I saw nine in snails tour with David Bowie. And that was probably one of the one of the great rock concerts that I saw. Because you know, Pink Floyd was better. But you know, Pink Floyd had a bigger show. Sure. But music wise, yeah, that was a lot of fun. And I love the fact that when two people tour together normally like one person opens and one person and the way they did it was that nine snails came out first. They played. Bowie came on, played a bunch of songs with them, which was very neat. Songs that I've never heard recorded again, like, you know, versions where he was doing nine inch snails music. Yeah, yeah. Right. And then it and then basically the nine snails left and Bowie did the rest of the concert with his people. And it was a really neat transition. Because like I said, you know, I think Bowie did head like a hole. Like shit like that. We were like, I never thought I would fucking hear this. Yeah, it's interesting idea. Yeah. So man, that's cool. I like that. Yeah. And I mean, it's funny how soundtracks, there was a time where soundtracks were such a secondary idea of the movie. Whereas like the score anyway, like every every movie had its hit single, the song and, you know, that that made you think of it, right? There's the opening song or the closing song, right? And then there was this, but everybody ignored the score. Whereas we now live in the age where like the score is almost the most important thing on the soundtrack. The score is the soundtrack. You know, Hans Zimmer is legendary for creating these, these audio atmospheres to his movies. I mean, the music of Dune has got just as much attention as the writing of Dune. You know, so it is fascinating that we kind of live in that age where the music has become as important in movies as it was. Whereas like, sure, you know, think back to some of the movies from your youth. Like, do you remember what the soundtrack to commando sounded like? No, no. I mean, whereas, whereas Predator, I do. Or like a John Hughes movie, that's all about the soundtrack as much as it is the movie. But yes, Predator is, yeah, yeah, it is a one of the things that when we did the comparisons of Predator 2 and Rubble Cop 2, one of the things that, because when we got to the end of that, you know, the two of them, we both agreed that the of the two sequels, Predator 2 was the stronger entry of the two. And one of the reasons was in Rubble Cop 2, they jettisoned the music. So you didn't have the basil puzzle door. I can't remember last name. You don't have that Rubble Cop. Oh, yeah, that really metal drum. Yes, that dang dang dang dang dang dang dang dang dang. You know, with the yeah, exactly. It was a very industrial, but it's very, very memorable. Whereas in Predator 2, whatever other mistakes were made, they brought back Alan Sylvester, and they reuse almost entirely the score, which some people will look at and say, well, they just redid the score. It's like, yeah, but you don't understand that is what that's half of Predator is the score. They could top it. Yeah. Right. So rather than try to do something new or ignore it, they brought him back and he's mostly doing it. There is new there are new parts, but it is pretty much there are one for one reuses of the soundtrack. I think it's really funny that this happened before the show. The other day, Joe was playing music from Mad Max. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I can play two seconds of it. And I heard and I heard hold on and I heard the music in the background and I said, wait a minute. Why does that sound like solar babies? And you were like, what? They're like, that's Thunderdome. And I'm like, that sounds like solar babies. And we realized that the same guy had done the soundtrack for solar babies and Mad Max Thunderdome and that essentially he had used some of the themes from solar babies in the music. I don't know how low that's going to be in the background, but it's pretty low. Is it? Yeah. But it's just it's a it's a it's a little bit. Whoa. Now it's loud. But there's a there's a bit in the middle. It's a little bit. It's coming up. So you can point it out. I think it's like 15 to 20 seconds. There you go. There's a little bit of solar babies. Yeah. And he basically just reused aspects of his music on these two different soundtracks. Yeah, which doesn't happen as much now because they've been now your soundtrack has to be very specifically, you know, movie. No, it was very common is very common for there to be offcuts that were reused. I mean, this is a Roger Corbin thing famously did this all over the place where he would go to composers and say, hey, is there anything that you made for this movie but didn't get to use? I'll get it. I'd like to buy it for 30% of whatever he were going to charge. It's like, do you want to get nothing for it or would you like to get something for it? I'll take it for, you know, a quarter on the dollar. Thanks. Bye. And it's just it's just these funny connections, you know, where it's like obviously the solo baby who were like, well, it sounds like Mad Max, you know, they're like, Oh, here you go. He's part of the soundtrack from Mad Max. I wonder if he wrote it for Mad Max and then he just used it for solo babies. It's a great question. It's very possible that it could have it could have. Well, let's see. Mad Max was 85. So I mean, it was 86. So it was from Mad Max. Yeah, it came before. Yeah. So it's but but there were certain there was a certain movies had unique soundtracks, right? Yeah. But it didn't become like this all inclusive thing, I think, until more recently, where like now it's like the soundtrack stands on its own. Like now they want the soundtrack to be its own huge thing. Like the Joker movie, you know what? I haven't seen the Joker movie, but I heard the soundtrack because it's incredible. Right? And that's I think it's like a Norwegian woman who does a cello music, but she's an incredible composer. You know, and there's a lot of movies now where like I've like I said, I've never seen them, but I buy the soundtracks and they're made. I haven't played Assassin's Creed Valhalla, but it may have one of the most incredible Assassin's Creed soundtracks as far as I'm concerned. Sure. Yeah. So yeah, it's it's interesting. We'll see. We'll see how everything evolves. And that's it's because there are a lot of people who don't like try and like see all that much, but almost nobody thinks the soundtrack's bad. So again, it's a death punk album. It's a very smart move to get a good group to do or a good soundtrack because if nothing else, if they can, if they can, well, I don't think every musician can do a soundtrack. No, no, no, no. But what I'm saying is unlike St. Roger Korman, who didn't have the budget to hire anybody, he wanted Disney can pretty much go to almost anybody and get them. So this, I think, is somewhat to offset in case the movie is regarded as terrible, you would like it. What I think nobody in charge of the movie wants is for someone to write a review saying this movie has no redeeming qualities. That is the worst review you could possibly get. So my guess is if nothing else, this movie will be credit, it will be praised for its special effects and its music. And even if the rest is lesser, that still gives you positive things to pull for quotes. I was never clear to be honest, in legacy, it all blows up sort of. You know, when he views the bridge, he blows the bridge up. Yeah, but then they show all this rippling, this huge explosion that goes across the, the, oh, no, I never thought I never thought that he destroyed all of it. I always thought he just closed the exits destroyed. The explosion looked bigger than that. I don't, I always assumed that his joining back up with Q. Q, right? Let's see. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Star Trek. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Clue. Basically create, basically blew up the gateway out. Let's see. I'm reading. Oh, no, see here. They escaped together in the real world as the ensuing explosion from Flint's sacrifice levels the Sea of Simulation. So it was bigger than just the bridge. Well the Sea of Simulation is the space between the outside. It's the, it's the, the, like the, the deadlands, the plains. There were a lot of people on that ship, right? Yeah. So I would assume that there weren't a ton of people left. And plus you have to, I don't think it leveled the city. Well, I don't think it destroyed everything, but yeah. So I will be curious if they show what happened in the, in the wake of that because you could have that whole city continuously evolving and just keep going. Well, Jared Lido could be the current ruler of this city. Yeah. My suspicion is that somebody will come into the vacuum because Clue was one side of the power of the, of the whole place. And then Flim was the, you know, the, the God of it, you know, the people have people have faith in. So God and the devil broke. Yeah. And Trump wasn't dead, but since Box Lightner's name hasn't been, of course, they could just keep them in the mask again. So yeah, I think it's going to be, maybe it's Trump that came back and ran everything. It could be the Trump went evil again, but that sort of invalidates the ending. There's, let's put it this way. There's a lot of vacuum left to fill in many ways in what light is behind as long as they get good writers. Well, that's where what I'm saying is they're shoring up the walls with music and visuals in case the light sucks. Right. I mean, that's like, hey, guys, we're not really good. We're not going to pay for good writers. So let's get a good soundtrack and pretty people for this. Well, and objectively, as much as I love legacy, I wouldn't call it a great narrative. It certainly wasn't the best writing, but I don't care because the people in it were good. It looks amazing even that even the shoddy deaging fits within the world. It doesn't make sense in the world. But he's a program. He doesn't need to look perfect. That's the one situation right where his slightly digitized nature works. Yeah, they would have been smart to not have him in the beginning in the real world and keep mostly in shadow or, you know, something and then just have them all digital. It would have been neat if he glitched. I would have liked if they had him glitched to show that there was like a degradation of the well that he was a copy that he isn't a perfect copy because obviously he wasn't. So yeah, no, there was there was look, like I said, the visuals and the soundtrack overcame the writing problems with legacy, right? So there's no reason you can't do that again if you just put the money in it and Disney is one of those companies where they can be like, what's oh, here's a check. What's it for? Just fill it in when you're done. Thanks. You know, yeah, it sure looks and sounds good. Well, see, I don't think they're that thrilled with the Tron IP at this point. Well, the thing is there a couple of years ago, they said no, there will be there will never be a Tron three like they were saying exactly the fact that they've done it. They don't have to. So somebody's made a solid argument. Yeah, somebody probably made the argument. I just made that. Hey, if we just make it look and sound really good, it's going to make money. Well, true, because listen, there's plenty of movies that have poor writing, but they look beautiful. Boy, you ain't kidding. Prometheus, listen, I think the writing in Prometheus is stupid, but it looks gorgeous. I do love the fact that now Prometheus is getting this resurrection in a lot of places. They're like, no, actually, it is a very good movie, which. No, no, it isn't. No, no, it isn't. No, sorry. Writing is stupid. This character is terrible. The only thing from Prometheus is it looks gorgeous. And Fassa Bender is amazing. But that's not enough to carry the movie. I've said pretty much the same thing the whole time. And it's still true. The parts of the movie that Ridley Scott is interested in shine, the rest sucks. I mean, that's just I'm sorry. That's as simple as this. I mean, there's there's characters in that movie that that behaves so stupidly. Yeah, because I don't think he cares. So yeah. Yeah. But it's a beautiful movie. It looks great. Yeah, I don't I don't remember what the soundtrack sounded like though. So what was it very impressive then? Yeah, no, the visuals were definitely the visuals of Fassa Bender are the reason to watch it. Yes. And I guess if you really want to see Charlize Theron die, the stupidest way possible, then that's a reason to watch it. Yeah. And a lot of stupid. No, it's kind of funny when she dies. So stupid. But there are also really good visuals and some truly horrific elements. I can't watch the scene where they open where what's her face opens herself up and takes that squid. I can't watch it. Oh, the surgery on her. Oh, I can't watch it. Oh, I like it. You know what? At that point in the movie, I was kind of sitting there scratching my head. So I was kind of like, Oh, yeah, go ahead. Do the surgery yourself. Why doesn't everybody do this? Yeah, I didn't need to see as much of it. You know what? I was joking around with my wife the other day about aliens movies. And I was like, you want to make aliens really interesting? You should make it so that they figured out how to basically neutralize the aliens that if you know you're been, you have eggs in you, you take a, you know, some kind of like peptal bismol. You just fucking shit it out. Well, I mean, yeah, because for a while, it's just eggs. Yeah, so well, you know, there should be a way to just get it out. Yeah, I think the trick of it, I think one of the things that's interesting about the aliens movies is, and to some degree, they were smart about this in the first really four movies. Well, not so much of resurrection, because by that point, they captured one. But in the first three, one of the things that is smart is from one to two, there's what 70 years, was I think it was, they said she was floating. And there was no evidence of anything. So they really didn't know what it was. But there, but the thing is, I think there is something in the, are the alien games considered canon? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it's just the movies. I'm pretty sure. So from one to two, you know, they don't really understand what it is. They know it's something, but they don't really get how it works. And then once you get to three, well, she's on a planet where nobody knows. So there's never a point where they've researched it and they know how to do the peptals, you know, all or whatever, you know, what is it? Xenomorphs. Yeah, I know that. What's the stuff that you take? What's the stuff that you put in your drink for indigestion that fizzes? Oh, AlkaSeltzer. AlkaSeltzer. Yeah, there's no Xenocensor. Yeah, Alka's it, Alka's, you know, they don't have that for for whatever you know off. Yeah, Xeno off. Yeah, with an exclamation point, Xeno off like deep woods off. No, no, no, what's that stuff you take with this stuff you take when you have excessive gas? Oh, that's, uh, you know, Pepsi? Oh, yeah, Pinot. Yes. Pinot. Xeno. Xeno. What do you know before alien eggs? Just take some Xeno. You'll feel like you know, before face hugging and you'll be fine for the rest of the game. Yeah, could you mash? Could you imagine passing that in the bathroom afterwards? Well, that was dreamcatcher, right? Steven King thought about it somewhat. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Maybe that's what we're missing. We need a seat of our company. Well, that was the one little bit of that was, uh, space balls where the thing comes up and dances. You know, by the way, oh, tangent thing. Oh, yeah. I discovered a that such a weird random thing because my YouTube viewer setup is so stringent where I don't even click on anything that I'm not sure about without going into a separate window and incognito mode because I don't want to be integrated into the algorithm because you know what? I, uh, I haven't logged into YouTube in so long. Oh, no, I log in because I don't have a better. I don't care. I have an understanding of how some channels really do need the you to click on that. Oh, absolutely. But you know what? If I want to find something, I'll just use the fucking search engine. No, I know what I'm saying is you can't do the thumbs up stuff. You can't do that if you're not logged in. Oh, there are creators I support directly. So I do it for that. Um, and I do use the like playlist feature for certain things, but that's it. And so I happen to accidentally find that two of the guys to the actors from Star Trek Enterprise do a podcast. Oh, I think I've heard of this. Yeah, it called. Well, it's called the decon chamber. Now it was called something else before, but they have one with Terry Farrell, which I watch because I like Terry Farrell, uh, who is delightful, at least in interviews. But the guy, the guy who played the security officer, I don't remember him's. No, no, you're sticking with Voyager. I'm talking about enterprise. Yeah. Enterprise. The guy who played the security guy on that show who's a British guy, that fucking guy. If you didn't see him, you would think he was John Hurt. He sounds exactly like if you needed a voice double for John Hurt, because I was listening to it and I'm like, why do what? Why is this guy sound so familiar? It's I went, Oh fuck, this guy sounds just like John. I mean, just like John Hurt, scarily so almost like he's doing an impression, but he's not. He's just talking. And he sounds like John Hurt. It is staggered. It's like that. It's like that guy that got to body double Harrison Ford in the age of, who's at the age of Adeline? Oh, yes, yes, yes. And this guy is like this was like the spinning image of young Harrison Ford and they just dealt with Harrison Ford's voice. Sure. Yeah. And yeah, I never understood whether to just use that guy for solo movie. But either way, yeah, but he looked just like him. I mean, it was crazy how much you look. Well, in this case, it sounds like if they ever had to do an audio book of alien, get this guy, get, get him. Because it is, it is shocking how similar he sounds. It's amazing. Good. Well, I think we've gotten to the end of my content, sir. All right, good. All right. Well, you already know this because we discussed this a bit. Honestly, it's so cheap calling it my content. Hey, whatever it's, I don't care. It's just our chance to basically have what would they call the Muppet show? Oh, prevalent mayhem. This is, yes, it's prevalent mayhem. Yeah, it's us talking it loud. It's verbal audio mayhem. So you and I discussed that I watched the recently released to video on demand for rental. I don't think you can purchase it directly, but you can rent it. The that's this year, 2024 film Long Lakes. Oh, yeah, has gotten much attention. Now, you read different reviews than I did. I read and heard a lot of different reviews that fell into one of three categories. One, one of the scariest movies I've ever seen. Two, Nicholas Cage is a nut bag in this movie. And three, they ripped off science of the lamps. That's generally what the now can I add my two reviews to this that I well, what one little asterisk that meaning outside of reviews that I would find rational, the rational ones for far more detail because my trusted reviews, the places where I go and I read reviews that are kind of in line with me said that that the movie itself wasn't anything amazing, but that Nick Cage was actually quite good. But he's not. There isn't enough of him to make the movie great. That was the one review I read. And then somebody else, I actually spoke to somebody who saw the movie who likes horror movies. And they said that they just didn't like it. But it was, and I wonder if it wasn't, I wonder if it sold in a way that people thought it was a different kind of horror movie than what it was. And they felt that Nick Cage was like kind of wasted. Well, different strokes. See, this is fascinating too, because so far, I have not agreed with anything I've read or heard entirely. And I know nothing about this movie except the fact that Nick Cage is in it. Okay, so it's really not a horror movie. Well, okay, this movie is a blend. It's a musical. Well, it's in a very small way. Only in that popular music is a component of it, but nobody dances. Well, no, yeah, nobody dances. Nick Cage does something at one point that you might think is dancing, but I wouldn't call it dancing. The movie is a blend of a lot of really great movies we've seen before. And when I say that I don't mean a rip off, I mean that it takes smart pieces of other movies. Most prominently, in my view, sounds and lambs and cure. Now, if you heard my show review, cure, the Japanese film, cure. Oh, yes. Yeah. The one where the guy talks people into killing other people. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it blends those two movies together in what I think is a really beautifully shot movie. The number one thing about this movie is it is, and that's one thing I haven't read anywhere is people saying that it looks beautiful. It's gorgeous. It is, it reminded me a lot of Hannibal, the series, in the way that it frames shots, in the way that it used color, and did really long kind of, there's a lot of empty space and silence that is used for dramatic tension. And there's, but essentially it starts off. And what it starts off is we have this female FBI agent named Harker, who immediately will remind you of Will Graham from the series in that she has an intuition that nobody understands. They call her psychic at one point. I think you'll hear a clip, right, which was the Will Graham thing where he could see the crime scene, right? Yeah, because he could visualize things so intently. And so get into the mindset that it was almost supernatural. Yes. And there were people who thought it was supernatural, right? But it never was. It was simply his ability to intuit or intuit, right? You should say intuit. His intuition to be able to see what was going on. That's what this person has, except in her case, it's pattern recognition. She can see, it's kind of like, remember in Iduro Laney with the nodal points where he could recognize that something was going on? Yeah, yeah, he was looking at the data and he could see what something was going to happen. That's what this is. She's not supernatural. There is supernatural stuff in here, I think, although that's also up to you to decide, but I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be. Oh, that's the other thing is there's a lot of satanic panic, because the whole thing is Satan worship. That's what it is. Spoiler alert to jump to the end. It's about Satan, but it starts off and you see her in a room full of men, which again is very sounds of the lambs. She's, I believe, the only prominent woman. There may have been other women in the room, but in the beginning, she's the only woman you see. And they're given instructions, her and this other guy, who she seems, at first I thought they might have been involved, but then I've realized that they're also playing her, I feel like, on the spectrum where she's very, very uncomfortable around people. And so at first, when she's paired with somebody, she gives them this look and I'm like, okay, so they're exes, right? But that never is, never brought up because he's very friendly with her when they go out on their assignment. There's nothing there that suggests that. So I think it's just supposed to be that, because then there's a point where her supervisor's like, oh, come in and meet my wife from Darwin. She's like, I'd rather not. Like she's, it's like just blatant. So they're clearly playing her as an anti-social, if not on the spectrum character, which again kind of goes along with this idea that she's a bit of a savant in her pattern recognition abilities. So the first little bit is she goes out with this guy, they go out and they're trying to identify a somebody who's killed like five people, not long legs. This is pre-long legs, but they go in this place and it's one of these things where it's, and this is set in the 90s. And his name is long legs? Yeah, well, he's like the zodiac. That's not his name. That's what he signs all this stuff as. Killer name, got it. This is the truth. Is this more of a serial killer movie then? Really? Oh, it definitely is. Yeah, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. So the opening bit is they go out to a, one of these neighborhoods where every single house looks the same, you know, except the paint job maybe is different, but it's basically they just printed, not, not like printed the houses, but they're all using the same housing plan for what they built. You've seen these places where every house is the same. And so they go out there in a, they go out to Fort Thunderbird, which immediately hit me because this is the version of the Thunderbird after the one I had because the grill is slightly different. But I drove a Thunderbird of this vintage and yeah, don't hit the gas. No, no, it wasn't a death trap. I destroyed it. I can't blame the car. The car was fine. I drove like a piece of shit. There I am. I'm very, very upfront about the fact that I'm a terrible driver. I destroyed that car. That car owed me nothing. In fact, I abused that car. It took a lot of abuse. So I'll give it that too. And it was real real drive and the fucker could move if you hit the gas. So if you ever buy one of those, be aware, it's real real drive. So better put some weight back. That is one of the biggest problem with people who get cars that have a lot of power. Oh, yeah. They put their foot down. They don't realize what that power does. Yeah. Well, first I didn't realize, and then I did realize, and I was stupid. So it was a dual-edged sword. I mean, yeah, you know, I destroyed that car. It's literally in one of, there's an illustration of my house hanging on the wall that has the Thunderbird with the destroyed door from what I like ran up against the pole with it and kept going back and whatever. Okay, get into that now. If we get into my car, mishaps will be here for three more hours. Anyway, so they go out to this thing and all the houses look the same and the guy's like, all right, I'm going to start over here and he starts knocking on the door and she just looks and immediately says to him, it's that one. He's like, well, how could you know it's that one? She's like, I'm telling you, it's that one. And he's like, all right, fine, stay here. I'll go knock on the door, knocks the door immediately get shot in the head and killed. And then she goes in and the rest of the guy. And so this is a demonstration of her intuition being correct. So then we cut ahead to, well, I don't know how, I don't know if they say, try to remember if they say how much later it is. But essentially based on, actually, it's probably pretty quick. They basically realize, okay, she she has this ability that she can figure this stuff out. So we're going to put her on this case that we've had since the 70s, which is the Long Lakes killings where these these girls are being killed. And they need somebody. Oh, I just realized, hold on, I got to turn the volume down. These are going to blow yours out. Hold on. Sorry. Yeah. So this is the first explanation of what the case is. I believe this is where they're sitting in the, this is either him outlying a tour when they're sitting in the car. I'll note once you hear it, but this is basically an explanation of, okay, what the Long Lakes thing is and why they want her on it. So here you go. Oh, no, oh, sorry. Now I remember what this is. I could tell from the breathing. This actually pre preffices with it. So after the initial thing, we get this, we see this way back scene. Like this is clearly set far before the current events, right? And we see a house with a young girl and a station wagon pulls up and somebody rings the doorbell. Girl goes, this little girl, like, I don't know, eight, 10, 12, whatever, looks, goes to the door. There's nobody there. She sees the car. She grabs for some reason a Polaroid camera, puts it around her neck, goes outside and runs into Nick Cage. Now you don't see him. You know it's him. You know it's him, but you don't actually see him, but from the neck down because they're hiding his face. I'm not really sure why because you can't even tell it's him. He's under so much prosthetics. So I don't really know. Do they make him look massively different? He almost looks like the guy from mask. Hold on. Do a search. You'll see him. I mean, I see, I mean, when he talks in his mannerisms, you can tell it's Nick. And of course, everybody knows it's Nick Cage, but he doesn't look like himself at all. Not really. I mean, if you're looking for Nick Cage's features, you'll see them. But if you didn't know what Nick Cage looked like, or if you'd only seen him as younger, he's got kind of a weird way. He looks like a witch. Yeah. Yeah, he looks like an old way. He could he could have been playing a woman. He looks like this old crone. I don't know how else to describe it. He's really pale. Yeah, yeah, he's got stuff on his face. You could tell because you could see where it ends on his neck. Like that's not is not supposed to be like that. He's putting something on. Whatever. So he's there. And this is the first time he sees this little girl, and this is where you hear him speak. And this is what I think a lot of people infer as him being weird. He's just, but I'm going to play it. Listen to this. This is him talking to her, but it's important because of what he says. We'll get back to the second. So this is the first thing where we see him very, very briefly. There she is. The almost birthday girl. Oh, but it seems I wore my long legs today. Okay, and then we cut to the credits almost immediately after that. So he wore my long legs. Yeah, they never explain that. So that's why that that's the name, but they never explain what that means. Who cares? It doesn't matter. It means it means nothing. I mean, the zodiac. I don't think ever explained why he's called himself the zodiac. So, but that's I think that's the extent of his weirdness really until he gets to the end. You'll hear the interview with him, but it's not he's playing a whacked out hyper satanic serial killer. Nothing about that voice is odd to me. That's the thing where I went, what? He's playing a nut. What is everybody getting hooked up about? This is fun. I think in my short thing, I said, this is not vampire's kiss. You want to see Nick Cage losing his fucking mind. Go watch vampire's kiss. That's a great Nick Cage going insane thing. I mean, there's many of them, but that's a really good early one. So yeah, we see that. Yeah, I mean, he's just playing a serial killer. It doesn't seem like it doesn't seem surprising at all. That's what I'm saying. But that's as much as you're going to see it from him for a good hour and 10 15 20. Yeah, until the end is this opening thing. And you only really see his hands. And then when he kind of crouches down really quick and it cuts as soon as his face comes in the frame. So you don't even really see him. You just get an impression of it. Even if you freeze the movie, you only see like a blurred version of it. But like I said, you've seen a picture of it. It's not like he's some kind of two-faced looking guy. He's just got a pale prosthetic face. So then we cut to the modern thing. And now once they've realized that Harker is a somebody that can recognize this stuff, they basically want her on the case. They want her looking at this because they haven't been able to make any headway. They've got very similar to the zodiac. They have all these letters that have all these cryptic like symbols and everything. And nobody can decipher it. So this is Blair Underwood plays her boss, Scotland character of this movie. And he's in the car with a female agent who is, I believe supposed to be his second in command or something because she seems to be, if not equal to him, she's, I don't think she's supposed to be a superior. Feels like she's like one step down from, she pops up here and there and then she's at the very end. So I think you'll hear her speak. But basically he's explaining what these murders are and why they basically why they're stuck. You're a baseball fan, Harker. No, sir. I need to talk to someone about my beautiful mariners. My wife's getting pretty good at faking it. That's a slippery slope. That makes you proud of this goal. Only working with her. You give me a drink harder. You beat that numbers generator eight times. How'd you do that? I also missed it eight times. Half-psychic is better than not psychic at all, I'd say. Family of four lived in that house for 12 years. The horns. Nice people. Dad taught at the college and coached t-ball. The mom ran a church bake sale and then two months ago they all get murdered inside. Four victims met technically three murders in the suicide. The father? Yeah, he didn't do it halfway either. The stab his wife 61 times before the blade snapped off the handle. What about the kids? What about them? How many wounds? You can read about it in the file. You said four were murdered. I don't understand. Neither do we. The letter was left with the bodies, read in the coded alphabet. Not in the hand of anyone in any way connected to the families. We have ten letters like it made by the same hand. Ten houses, ten families over the past 30 years. And all of them signed one word. Long legs. Someone or something is making the fathers do it. So far we've been goddamned to figure out what, whoa. And there's your basic backstory of what's gone on before and why they want her on it is, yeah, they when they reference there where he says you beat the number generator. They do this weird test where they're showing her all these images. And then there's points where they're asking her, here's a number between one and 30. What's the number? And she picks it. So she got it right. I guess half the time, 16. You don't see all 16. But you know, it's this weird test that was saying never really explained. But I guess the FBI test agents for being psychic or something based on what he says. It's I assume with some kind of personality test. But they don't really explain it. And she doesn't really understand it either. She just happens to do very well on it. So they basically give her all the information with all the letters and everything else. And she starts to puzzle it out. And she is, you know, she's putting it all on boards, you know, and laying it all out. And there's a point where she has all this different stuff laid out and she's starting to make some progress on it. And then she kind of falls asleep because she's been working all night on it and underwood comes in and sees her sleeping. And he's like, yeah, you need a break. Let's go get a drink and you can tell me where you are so far. And this is her explanation of what she has so far figured out about the killings. That was the last track of time. I'm still thirsty. You thirsty? Come on, let's go for a drink. You'll have to excuse me. It's late and I don't drink. You don't drink. You're right. I'll drink. What do you tell me thinks? Agent Walker? Come on, back it up. Oh, let's go with some. Go ahead, Walker. But there's no signs of forced entry. In fact, forensics says there's no indication he was ever in the house at all. There's only the bodies of the victims and they've all been killed with something from inside the house. Two times a shotgun both legally registered to the father, eight times a night from the family's kitchen, wants a hammer from the family's toolbox. By and? Longwigs would have to be inside the house to use the shotgun, the knife, the hammer. But according to physical evidence, he never is. If it wasn't for the letters he left behind, it's almost like he was never there at all. He murders them, but not in person. Maybe he tells the families what he wants them to do to themselves, to each other, then they do it. Well, that reads like a page out of Manson. Manson had accomplices, his family. You think Longwigs has help? All right. Oh, man. Okay, bit time. I'll drive. So she drives him home. And when they get there, he says, oh, why don't you come in and meet my wife and daughter? And she says, no, I'd rather not, as well as talk about with the anti-social thing. He's like, no, you're going to come in and meet my family because everybody who works for me does. So she very reluctantly goes in. She's very awkward. Like I said, playing this very on-the-spectrum character, which again, makes sense with what she's supposed to say. Who's the actor who plays the... Oh, Blair Underwood. Blair Underwood. Blair Underwood, there you go. Yeah, great voice. Oh yeah, no, he's great in this. He's very, very goodness. So he brings her in and she meets the wife and daughter. And you know, she's friendly enough. And the daughter likes her a lot, I think, because she acts very differently than most of the FBI agents. So she's immediately kind of drawn to her. And there's a point where she goes into the room with the little girl and goes, like, oh, come see my room. And she's kind of sitting on the very edge of the bed like she's just waiting to escape. And the little girl's talking to her. And and then there's a point where her mom comes in and says, okay, well, it's really, really late. And the agent has to get going. You have to go to bed. And the little girl says, oh, can she come to my birthday party? And you can tell that she absolutely does not want to come to this birthday party. But she says, sure, I'll be there. And then leaves and she goes home and she lives in this kind of again, very much like Will Graham out in the middle of the woods in this kind of log cabin looking place by herself. And she calls her mother. And her and her mother have this long conversation back and forth. Her mother's played by Alicia with. And the mother keeps asking her if she's saying her prayer. Man, I feel, I feel old. Don't you? Yeah, because remember, dude, little girl and dune? Oh my God. Yeah, she don't look that young no more. Yeah. Now we're at world world. Yeah, world. So and the mother's talking about, oh, are you saying your prayers? And it's very obvious harker isn't. And as soon as this conversation went on, I'm like, okay, the mom's involved. Like immediately, if you've seen any of these movies, this whole conversation is very outside of everything. And the fact that there is this this thing where she keeps asking about prayers and, you know, you have to you have to talk to God and all stuff like, yes, the mother is going to be involved. There's no way this is not a factor in this, which she is. We'll get to that. So then as she's on the phone, suddenly somebody shows up, which almost certainly would have to have been long legs, you know, somebody knocks on the door. She goes to the door. Nobody's there. She turns on the light. She looks out and she sees a person and faintly behind him is what appears to be a giant horned goat man. Now it's very faint. It could just be the trees. But I'm looking at the image right now, and it's not accidental. It's supposed to be what I would have to infer is some type of satanic figure. Now they haven't introduced that element yet. But if you're paying attention, that's what it looks like. And the fact that the mom was just talking about God, I'm like, okay, yeah, this is a satanic panic thing, right? So she sees him. She goes out with her gun. She's looking around. He's not there. She looks back and then she sees somebody in her house. So she runs back in. He's not there. But now there's a letter on her desk that says for Lee Harker, do not open until January 14th. And then that's the end of I should have said these. This thing is divided. I believe three parts. So her finding the letter is the end of part one, which is kind of title. What is part one titled? Hold on. Part one is titled his letters. And so she finds this letter. And then we immediately cut to part two, which is literally the next second she opens it. She finds a new cipher that she's trying to go through. And she starts puzzling it out. And she figures out that it's related to the Bible to biblical passages. So she call she then gets a call from Underwood who says, Hey, there's been another murder. We found another letter. They go and they look. And in the house, there's religious symbolism. And again, it's a father who's killed, his family. And then she remembers shooting family destruction. Yeah, something like that. I don't remember the exact violation is a family family and I later. Yeah, that's it. Great, great phrase for a terrible thing. So she's in the station. She realizes, Oh, I didn't call my mom back. And she calls her mom back and says, Oh, I'm okay. I'm all right. I'm sorry. I just had to get out the phone really quick. I'm working on something I can't tell you what it is. And she says, Okay, remember to remember to say your prayers again, like there's just it's pretty well telegraphed that there's going to be this angle to it. So then the next thing is she's going through microfilm and she's looking at dates and she's puzzling out the cipher and she's looking in like religious texts and like the book called the nine circles of hell. And then she basically calls up her boss and says, Okay, I've worked out at least part of what's going on here. And it's like, all right, explain it to me. And this is her explaining, at least what she knows so far what the relationship is, where this is going and kind of what she's put together. Tell me out here. It's an algorithm. His algorithm. Help me out more. The first murder happens on July 14th, 1966. The rest occur within six days of the daughter's birthdays, either before or after, creating an inverted triangle. Okay, what am I supposed to do with this? I also decoded all his letters. The one thing that stood out was the repeated reference to the fine time we had at the camera family farm where exes mark the spot. The camera family. How's the Georgetown when that happened? Their local priest makes his weekly visit, but it goes bad due to Carrie Ann's father and the acts from the tool shed. He kills the priest, his wife, and then himself. Carrie Ann's at school, so she survives. Look at the date. March 8th. Now look at Carrie Ann's birthday. March 14th. Six days apart? Well, no shit. I believe long legs was at the camera family farm, and it's possible that Carrie Ann saw him. What about the 13th? It's missing. I'm still not sure about that, but it's three days from now. Maybe long legs will kill again. And it's Carrie Ann. She's still alive? Water rock psychiatric hospital. It's not far from here. 132 miles, sir. 89. Let's start there. And you pick up on the way she's talking, right? I mean, they definitely have her speaking in a certain way where she's got all this stuff instantly kind of, you know, instant recall of things the way she talks. So so they start off. Honestly, it's almost a little heavy handed. It is. It's I do feel like they could have pulled it back a bit, but then again, the way the character acts, it's it's fitting because it is that thing where she doesn't seem to care what if it seems odd the people. So she's just being who she is. It's one of those kind of things, even in her physicality. She has this very kind of stilted and very tight withdrawn way of moving, where she almost she's very kind of tight on herself, where she sits, not necessarily where she's hugging herself, but everything is very big. There's no space to her. You know what I mean? It's it's it's very good performance. Like though, I don't know what the actress's name is, but she's very good. And so yeah, it hearing it, it's more over the top than in the film, where with her movements in the way she's looking at things, it makes sense. Yeah, it's kind of like if you hear data talk in absent, not seeing the rest of them, you'd be like, okay, he's playing the robot a little heavy, isn't he? But then when you see his whole performance, it's like, well, this is what data is. Okay, got it. So they go because he had said, okay, the farm's closer, we're going to go there first. So they go to the farm, which is where these murders happen, which is abandoned now, but they go to the farm. And she's told him that somebody dropped a letter off in her house, right? I don't remember when she says, yeah, I don't remember if it was before or after the scene, but she I mean, she has to tell them at some point. I just don't and it really isn't as big a deal as you would think it is like they don't make a big thing out of it, which is odd to me, because that's why I think it must have happened. I think it must have happened later that she didn't exactly reveal it for a while, probably because she knew that they would flip out about it. So they go to this farmhouse and they're looking around, of course, to abandon and it's shot, this is beautifully and spooky and everything. And they go up into the attic and they find a cross that is nailed to a plank of wood. And so they pry up the plank of wood. And inside, they find a life size doll that looks like the girl who survives. He mentioned she's in the psychiatric facility. The doll looks like the young girl. So they take it into a forensic guy to look at and he says, Oh, this is a beautifully constructed doll. I mean, this is this is some whoever did this knows what they're doing. They may I mean, it looks very human to the point where I thought at first when they found it, I thought it was an embalmed little girl, but it's not it's a doll. But it does have human hair on it. No, if you see images of it, it looks I mean, it looks like a when you see it clothed, it looks like a person. And then, of course, once they have it down, you're like, you know how most dolls the old dolls, you should have that like undergarment on them, the white undergarment that was recovered. When you see it like that, it looks like a doll, like it's very clear. It's it's it's fake. But the guy says, well, the only thing we found in it was this silver ball in the head. And the weird part is if you put a what do they call a thing they put on a pregnant woman's. Ultra sound if he says, listen to this, he puts an ultrasonic thing onto it. And they hear something. And he says, I could swear when I listened to it before it was in the voice of my ex wife, but I don't hear it anymore. And you're like, huh? And everybody's like, what? But there is something coming out of it. And Blair in the wood says, well, can we open it up? Can we crack it open and see what's in there? He's like, Oh, sure, I can open it up for you. And so then we see a scene where long legs is in a basement. And he's building another doll. And when this when the doll is being examined, Harker starts, you see these flashbacks where she's seeing it's all in red is like a serpent. And you see like what you don't know is is whether it's a doll or a girl in front of a mirror and it gets covered with a black shroud. And then you see like these demonic eyes come through the shroud very faintly for a second and they go in and it kind of just cuts back to her. And so again, you know that it's there's something going on with her, like she's clearly related to what's going on because she's having these memories of it. So then as that's happening, we finally see Nick Cage is driving along and now we see him and this is probably about the halfway point or close to the halfway point of the film. We don't entirely see him, but you're getting more looks at him. That's very smart how they shoot it. We get little bits more of him. And he shows up at this hardware store, which is clearly where he's buying the parts for his dolls. And he asks the girl who works there, what her birthday is. And she says, Dad, that creepy guy's back in the leaves. So it's it's obviously, as she explained, it's related to the birthdays as something new with birthdays. And so they go to the psyche. Oh, so when they open up the ball, so the guy says, Oh, I opened the ball up. There's nothing in it. It's, you know, it's just empty. And so they're like, Okay. And so they go to the psychiatric place. I'm going to get there. The director says, Oh, yeah, carry in. Yeah, she was kind of tonic until she had a visitor. I think he says this morning. And now suddenly she's awake and she's chatting. And it's like she's a completely different person. And like, well, do you have a security camera running? And she's like, and the guy's like, no, we don't. And and they, and it's this day and age. No security camera in the 90s. It's 90s. Oh, okay. So we're like, well, can we see the sign in book? Everybody has to sign in right? I said, Oh, yeah, we make everybody sign in and they look and it's Lee Harker's name there. And so the Harker says, don't you have them check the IDs? And the guy's like, you know what? That's a really good idea. Like this place is run like a joke. So then we see her interviewing the the girl who's no longer catatonic. And she's talking and she's talking. And she starts saying things like, well, you know, Oh, no, is she going to be the next killer? Because he's no, no, no, no, no, no, no, definitely not. No, then we start seeing flashbacks of the murders at the house. Like we see her mom, like stabbing. So we find out that there was a doll that was dropped off at her house. And the doll is doing something to them. And when she's talking and talking about what's going on, she says, uh, because I think Harker says, well, you know, what did he say to you? Did he tell you to do something? And she's like, no, he didn't tell me to do anything. But if he did, I would, I'd stab you right in the eyes a bunch of times happily if he had told me to. I don't care because I'll do what he says. And like she's a nut, like she's clearly under some kind of influence. And as that's happening, we're seeing the murder where the the priest comes by and like there's a doll in the house, the same kind of doll that looks like this girl, the, the committed girl, as just staring. And the father stabs the wife's death. And then he takes an axe and butcher is the priest. And this is all being shown to us in the background as we're, as she's telling the story. And then Harker kind of gets freaked out and goes in the bathroom and like looks in the mirror. And then we cut the long legs sitting in a basement. And there's like some kind of shadow form that some kind of black smoke kind of comes out of nowhere. And you know, it doesn't have an explanation. That's just what we see. And then we immediately cut to them back in Blair Underwood's office, where they're talking about her theory, her now, because basically she keeps figuring things out. And now she has an idea of how long legs is making these people commit murder. So this is it. All right. All right. So he murders a family in 75. But he probably isn't even in the house when they kill. Then comes back almost 20 years later to visit the only survivor, signs in his age and chasing him. And then leaves his only surviving victim feeling much, much better than before he got there. She came out of her catatonia the same day we found the doll. Yeah, that could be anything but a coincidence. Look, we opened the bar in the doll's head and there's nothing inside. Maybe we're missing something. Something that I don't know makes it work. And some cultures dolls are used in magic to control people. So he kills them with the doll from somewhere else by what? Remote control? Long legs is just a man, Walker, not a witch doctor. Sit down. All those long legs know your name, Walker. I don't know, sir. You know, last week this investigation is ice cold. Then you come on to it and all of a sudden it's flowing like, I don't know, hot lava. Why aren't you telling me? I revisited your file. What was the last time you talked to your mother? Sorry, sir, but what does that have to do with the case? She called on a police report January 13, 1974. That's one day before you on ninth birthday. That makes your birthday the 14th. She did? She did. Give a description of a trust passer. Tall and pale. Okay, look at me. Do you remember someone at your house that might have looked that away? I do know, sir. You go see your mother and tell me what she says about the person who came to your house when you were a kid. I understood. Yes, sir. Now, if you're paying attention, you probably figure out that the scene at the very beginning where he showed up and there was a little girl who he said, oh, it's almost right, is her. So, she just she goes home and she had mentioned on the phone with her mom that, you know, she hadn't been home in a long time. And so, you know, this is she doesn't really want to go see her, but she goes and sees her. And as I had said earlier, this is she's played by Alicia Whit, who comes off like a maniac. Again, there's a lot of if you've seen movies like this before, you're going to understand where this is going long before it gets there. And when she's there, now, there's several times throughout this movie where you see that goat man image. And when she's at the house, there's a scene where there's a part where she sees a roach coming from behind a door that's blocked, which I mean, if there's no more classic thing in a movie like this, where if you see a door that's locked and has something that's blocking the bottom of it, obviously, there's something there. There's something in the basement. There's something bad. Something bad. And when she's looking at that, if you look in that frame off to the right, in the doorway, there's like one of those crescent windows in the top. And there's a goat man there, like there's the goat shadow is there. So again, there's just they keep telegraphing. And now, you know, she's talking about magic. And they haven't specifically said Satan yet. But the imagery is all over the place. So then you see a flashback where from the beginning, where the mom realizes that she's outside. And she calls the cops and says there's somebody here. I don't know who it is. And then it cuts back to now the 90s, when she's in the house. And she goes, she talks to her mom, and she starts to ask her mom about her birthday. And her mom's responses, I'll just let you listen to it. But again, if you've seen these types of movies, it's very clear that the mom is there's the mother, if nothing else, know something about what's going on. I can't believe it's going to be your birthday again. So soon. What a day that was. I bled, bled, bled, bled, bled, bled. Mom, do you remember my ninth birthday? No, I don't think so. I don't remember anything to you. What happened that day? No. No, what do you mean no? No, it's just the way it sounds, baby girl, but you called the police about a trespasser. No one ever came to visit us, not any family, no strangers, no big bad wolves, no anybody. But these are things a little girl shouldn't know. I'm not a child anymore, mom. You're not a child because you were allowed to grow up allowed. This is a cruel world, especially for the little things. Not all of them are allowed to live. What are you talking about? I might have forgotten everything I possibly could for both of our sakes, but I never threw anything away. All of your things. It's all in your room. Right, so like I said, I bled and I bled and I bled and then no and you were allowed to live. Right, so yeah, like I said, now you understand why she's so screw up. Yes. And so again, you immediately, if you didn't already know, you know the mom is somehow involved. Whether she's architecting it or the victim, we don't know yet. But I mean, I don't think at this point anybody watching this movie goes, well, I think the mom is ignorant of everything going on. It's very clear. So then the next thing we see is Harker goes into a room and finds a chest. And in there, there's a bunch of Polaroid photos because she was the girl with the Polaroid camera. And then she sees one and it's long legs. It's just a picture of his face because when what we'll see later is when he bent down and then that cut in the beginning, she takes a picture of him. And when she sees that, she flashes back to his face at that time and from the beginning of the movie, and she immediately knows it's him. So then she runs to run. She drives and sees her boss and says, this is him. He came and saw me. And and Blair in the woods, like, are you sure? And she's like, I'm sure it's him. And so then the next thing is we see Nicholas Cage. Now we just see him. Now he's just there. No more hiding. This is about an hour and 10 in the movie. And he's just standing there and all the cops show up and he just puts his hands up. And of course they take him into custody. And now, like I said, this is an hour and 10. How did they know who he was? Or do they have it in a database? I think the idea is that they were searching for him around there. But I don't know how they found him. They don't really I don't think they ever specifically said. So either somebody saw him because Oh, you know what? I think maybe the girl at the I think the dad may have called in that some weird guy come into her into the hardware shop. So that's probably where it was that there was a report of somebody because she said dad that guy's here and he's freaking me out or something like that creepy guy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that I don't think they ever actually say or I missed it. Not that it matters. This doesn't really matter. But they catch him. They take him in. And now this is a very long clip. But this is the biggest single scene where Nick Cage is basically she's asking her questions. This is the whole, you know, Clarice talking to lecture scene type of thing. And much like that movie where people are like, Oh, yeah, I had him a lecture. He's the whole movie. He's like, well, he's in it for like seven minutes. That's the same thing with this where, you know, long legs is in the movie for maybe seven minutes. He's not really in the movie. But this is the big scene where she and here talking and he more or less explains what's going on. And again, there's going to be a point where he says maybe you should ask your mother about what's going on. So you'll you'll hear it. But here is the entire thing where you get to hear his his whole spiel and the whole long legs voice. There she is. The almost birthday cue. Oh. It's funny. The day you decided to go with the line of placement, we had such a big laugh about it because there was only me who left, not she. It was machine that you're talking about. The seventh she to be given the same choice that they've all been given, crimson or clover. Accept the gift and destroy it, and destroy yourself, and yourselves, or keep it and bow down. Now we're all the way down and get right down to the dirty, dirty work. Work to get dirty as a cleanse, like a mop, like a rat. You don't work alone, do you? Someone's been helping you. An accomplice. Knock knock on the farmhouse door. A nice lady with a bottle and a good graduation. You have been selected. You may now collect your gift from the church. It says it right here, right here on the orders, on the orders from the man downstairs. The camera family farmhouse will be so bright and white you can't miss it. You refer to carrying a camera. What did you say you were at the mental institution? Well, but Lee, your house was even wider when I came to business. January 13th, 1974, right? And then when house number eight was so white, we're in an ambitious garage. We're in a terrace. I knew then that the work we were doing was maculent. I should work so far. It's done and you're going to be in here for the rest of your life. I am done. But I want to leave you in here. I'll be a little bit of everywhere. Waiting in the wings. You must bother swings. Who's been helping you? Well, I'll let you get started now. Who is the man downstairs? Why don't you ask your mommy? My mother doesn't know anything. Hail Satan. And as soon as he finishes saying Hail Satan, he then smashes his head into the table until he kills himself. I think it's the thing where, you know, there's that move where you can hit somebody in the nose and drive the bones into their brain. Yeah. I think it's that because his nose is gone once he finishes and he's dead. And, of course, he says, ask your mommy, which, again, it telegraphed the whole time. So nothing really at this point surprising about it. So she drives out with the female agent who was in the beginning, the one who was in the car with Blair Underwood, says, I'll drive out there with you after what you just saw. You really shouldn't drive yourself. So she says, okay, and she takes her out there, and she says, I'll wait out here. Go talk to your mother. And so, Lee goes into the house, and she's looking around, at which point her mother, dressed as a nun, comes up to the side of the car and blows the other agent's head off with a double barreled shotgun in and out of two foot range, then walks around to the other side of the car and blows the other side of what's left of her head against the other way, as Lee watches from the house. And then we see her standing in front of a doll, which is dressed like Lee was dressed at the beginning of the movie when she came out and saw Long Lake. So it's another one of these perfectly made dolls in her childhood clothing, standing there, and she pulls a gun on her mom and says, what are you doing? And the mom says, the mom says, something like, I'm allowing you to live shoots the doll. When she shoots the doll, because it's got one of those metal things in its head, the metal thing cracks and black liquidy smoke comes out, at which point you see the same thing come out of the top of Lee's head, and she collapses, right? So then she wakes up, and when she wakes up, she is in a bed in her house, so she's in her childhood bed, I guess, I suppose that's where it's supposed to be, because she's in the house. She goes down into the basement and finds that that's where Long Lakes has been the whole time. So he's the man downstairs who's been working with the mom, so the two of them have been working together, and she sees the station wagon that Long Lakes was driving at the beginning of the movie in the garage, and then she remembers that it is the day of Underwood's daughter's birthday, which is the 14th, so she figures out, oh no, that's where they're going, that they must have that that's got to be who they're after. So she drives over there, and sure enough, her mom's there, the daughter has a doll that looks just like her, and Blair Underwood is talking like a lunatic, like he's like, I'm going to go into the kitchen and get a knife to cut the cake, like he's, I mean, he's possessed, so that's the idea is everybody's kind of entranced, and the mother's just sitting there, and so she says to, she says to the mom, like, why are you doing this? And so the mom then explains what the deal she made was. Once upon a time, there was a girl named Lee. She lived in a little house with her mother, and no one ever came to visit them, no family, no big bad wolves, no anyone. One day, a man did come, a dollmaker, just dropping off an early birthday gift, I came from that church, she won! The dollmaker started his work, his terrible magic, the work of the devil. With a little bit of him, and everyone, the doll made the little girl forget, and told her where to look, and what not to see. The devil wanted the little girl for his own, but her mother could never let that happen. So her mother begged for the little girl's life to be spared. In exchange, she would have to help him. She had once been a nurse, now her work would be murdering families, and so it went like this. Walk, walk, walk, on the farmhouse door, a nice lady from the Bible, and a congratulations, you've won a gift from the church. While her mother had to do, was get it inside, and from his hiding place within the dolls, the devil had the rest. All her mother had to do was watch, and make sure it happened the way he wanted it to. That was the deal that she made. And this explains why she was dressed as a nun, because when she went to these houses, she's dressed as a nun. So now she's just in this full habit, you know, the nun outfit thing. She's not actually a nun, but this is like she's, and at this point, there is a magical element. Well, I mean, I don't know how you can infer there isn't, because why also these people kill each other? Unless she's killing them herself. Yeah, which we never see, but then, and the thing that the reason I think it has to be supernatural, and almost certainly has to be, is we see when they're at the birthday party, so Lee's there, the mom is there. Mom and Lee never leave each other's site. Blair Underwood stabs his wife in the kitchen. Now, I don't know why Lee did not shoot the doll immediately to stop this, but she doesn't, and I think it's partially because the doll is influencing her as well, because when we get to the ending, it's definitely doing something to her. So Blair Underwood comes out of the kitchen, covered in blood with a knife, and so she shoots him in the head and kills him. So then just the mom is sitting there, and then the Blair Underwood's daughter is sitting there with the doll, and then the mom is like, well, you're going to have to kill her. Otherwise, you have to die. And Lee is like, I'm not going to kill her. And the mom then takes this, you know, one of these twisty Satan knives out of her purse and goes after her, at which point she shoots her mother in the head to kill her, and the bullet hole looks like a little cross on her forehead, which is fascinating. And so kills the mom, and then says to the daughter, okay, we have to get out of here, and they start backing out, and she points her gun at the doll and starts pulling the trigger, but the gun is empty. And then she just starts staring at it. And she doesn't seem like she's necessarily and sore sold by it, but she also doesn't do anything else. And then we cut to Nick Cage back when he was in the interrogation room, laughing, and then he says hail Satan, and he like kisses the air, and then it cuts the black. So I don't know whether that means that she is now going to become her mother, or if it's just, you know, that it was a creepy way to end the movie, or what, I guess you have to just basically figure that out for yourself. So that's the movie. I love the fuck out of it. I thought it was great. Like I once this comes out 4K, I'm getting it because it is such, I mean, none of the audio can at all communicate how beautiful this movie is. It is magnificently shot. I mean, and the soundtrack, you get little bits of it, you heard little bits of it in the audio, but not really. There's a lot of really good use of the sound design, like these really weird sound effects to cut. There's a lot of long shots where it's just the tension of an empty house that's dark and knowing something is going on, but not knowing what it is. There's a couple of jump scares here or there, but it largely avoids that. A lot of it is just the tension of like when he's there at her house, you know, just her looking around, and there's just a lot of shadow, and she's seeing things, but not seeing things, it doesn't know what's going on. It's just a really well-made movie. I thought it was fantastic. Would I call it the scariest movie I've ever seen? No. Was it an excellent thriller with a supernatural element? Yeah, it is. It's great. So that's what I mean about. It's a blend of other movies. I've said elements of other movies, but I think they're blended in a really smart way, and it results in this really, really intense movie that I enjoyed the fuck out of. So I liked it a lot. Like I said, that long trip of Nicholas Cage at four minutes, that's the longest you get at him in the whole movie. That's as much as there is. There's little bits of him sprinkled here and there, but it's largely you don't even see him. He has a couple lives. There's one part where he's driving the car, and he's like yelling, but it's very brief and I don't even know what the hell he was yelling. You're mostly feeling his influence through the movie? Yes, exactly. Because, you know, like I said, she figures out that he could not have been working alone. And like I said, if you watch enough of these movies, the mother immediately stands out as being involved. Now, up until a certain point, I couldn't tell if she was the architect or not, but it certainly seems like when you get to the end that she was at the very least in collusion with, if not had superseded Nicholas Cage's character as doing this stuff. It's a shame too, because if Underwood hadn't killed his wife, right? Yeah. And she destroyed the doll. You could almost have made the argument. They would have walked the line. You could have made the argument of whether the question of whether it was supernatural or not would have always been there, because you could have been like this, and she killed them all. Yes. But this is the fact that Underwood then kills his wife. It shows their hand. But, and this is where I go back to that Japanese movie, Cure, in that movie, you think for a while that there's got to be a supernatural element of it, yet it at no point does the movie do it. It's more about influence. So, was this something where there's an influence going on? Because there's never, all right, if you're asking me, I think it's supposed to be at the devil's real. But the movie never really concretely says that that's real. So it wasn't, because we, the mother was there when Lee got there. We don't know what went on before Lee got there. Did the mother do something? You don't know. She's drugging them or something. Exactly. That's what I'm saying is you don't really know what's going on. So, and yes, okay, she shoots the doll. The doll has black smoke come out. Lee has black smoke come out and suddenly she's got her memory back. Well, is that just repressed memories by a traumatic action being brought back to the surface? I don't know. Like you can make an argument that this is not supernatural. And yet we see this goat man, but it's not like a goat man ever walks out and goes hello on the devil. Like there's never a definitive thing of that either. This could all just be subliminal suggestion by the movie, like stuff to make you think something. Who knows? That's why I like it. I like it because you can read it whatever way you want. I definitely, if I had to put money on it, my money is it's supposed to be that the devil is real. I think it's supposed to be supernatural. So do I, but again, there have been movies like this, like here, if you've never seen here, go watch it. It's fucking amazing where it borderlines supernatural like psychic ability, and it's not. So although I'm sure you could probably read that movie as it is. So there again, you know, well made movies leave room for you to interpret what you want. Regardless, I think it is phenomenally well made. I could not recommend it highly enough. I think it's fucking fantastic. And it looks so good that even if you don't necessarily love the story, it's the way it does its tension and atmosphere and the way it uses color and shadow and light is so well done that it's still worth seeing. But I really think it is a very well done movie. I would recommend it to anybody. If you like Sansa Lambs, you're gonna like this. If you like Curie, you're gonna like this. It's that type of film where it's a lot of, you know, even knowing it, I do want to watch it again, even knowing everything because now I'm kind of like, all right, well, I want to watch it again more critically. What did I miss? Right. Yeah. So I think it's really good. It was 20 bucks to rent. I find that that was absolute, I would have paid double once I'd seen it. I was like, Oh, that's worth twice. So I, but if you don't want to pay that, wait, that's fine. It'll, it'll come down. I'm sure soon enough. It was between this and the Joseph Gordon Levitt movie Greedy People, which have been recommended to me. But I started. I heard that was funny. Yeah, I, I watched the clip of the opening of that. And there was a dog. And I immediately went, Oh, let me check my favorite website. Oh, does the dog die? Uh huh. And I went, Nope. Out. Long legs it is. Because I checked long legs too. And there's no animals. So I was like, whatever. The worst there is is somebody said, well, there's a cat that's in the abandoned house. So what happens to that? And I'm like, I can, I can mentally figure that one out. Somebody from the cops took it. It's fine. The cat was not emaciated. It was just a cat carrier. The cat's alive, whatever. But dog gets killed halfway through the other movie. Nah, I'm good. Nope. Not, not, it's not a comedy to me. Fuck you. I don't want to see it. So, so that made this the winner by the fault. And honestly, I cannot imagine that greedy people would have been anywhere near as good as this. I mean, maybe this, but this movie was fucking great. I didn't hear it was that good. I feel like that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this, this is for people who, again, if you like size of lambs, you like here, you are probably going to like this quite a bit, if not love it. I loved it. So I'm very happy that it wasn't anything like a lot of the more hyped up reviews where they're all histrionic and wrong. It's just a beautifully made thriller with supernatural elements, most likely. And it's a, it's a great Nick Cage performance. Because again, I don't think he's doing anything weird. He's playing a demented serial killer who is either under the influence of the devil and is probably all fucked up from it, I would think most satanic possessions don't exactly end up with a well constructed person who integrates of the society with a lot of mirth and merriment. So he, and if he's not, and he thinks it is, honestly, they should be. They'd be far more effective if they were. You would think so, right? Yeah. I guess the devil's not as smart as he thinks he is. So I guess, I mean, you'd think he wouldn't show up as a big horn demon a lot of times too. It doesn't exactly scream, I'm hiding in plain sight. You know, in any event, like the Elizabeth Berkeley thing in, what was that movie? Bedazzle, the witch, whatever it was. The Brendan Fraser one where she plays the devil. Oh, yeah. I think it's yes. That's the way to go. Recommendation to the devil. Show up like that. You'll go very far. Very far. Yeah. Whatever blonde brunette, whatever you do. That's the way to do it is what I'm saying. So, or, you know, I don't want to leave anybody out. Show up as a Mads Mikkelson, and either way, it might work on me. So whatever devil, you've got a couple options. In other way, that's the better way than giant hairy goat man with giant horns and bleeding eyes that just is not aesthetically pleasing is the kind of bottom line of it all. So long legs, I would recommend it. Great movie. You know, you don't want to pay 20 bucks, wait until it hits streaming. That's fine. Pay less. I think it is a fantastic movie for whatever you pay for it or don't. And there's, I can't think of another movie I've seen recently like that. So it's really, really well made. And I could have probably go watch because I know I've heard that Oz Perkins has made movies like this, like Blackcoats daughter is supposed to be very good too, like this, that he has this very, very intense, interesting visual style based on this. I absolutely believe it. So I do want to go watch his other stuff now. But if this is the only movie that's this good, hey, whatever, it's not good. So I would. Well, you know what, if he if this is the culmination of his ability, then perhaps the next one will be just as good. I want whatever he does next, if it's something like whatever it is, I would be interested to see it based entirely on this. So yes, it's one of those kind of movies. So that's it. This movie was so good, I didn't want to review anything else. So that's all I got for you, but it's fucking great. So I would, if you are at all interested, see it. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Just don't pay too much attention to all these weird reviews talking, it's just a lot of them are just nonsense. But I think it is you don't see movies made like this much, especially with with this, the elements of this, even though there were jump scares, it mostly didn't rely on those. And even when it did them, it did them in interesting ways. You know, a lot of the kind of creepy interiors and just the way that there's different light, there's different aspect ratios. So when it's the past, it turns into like four by three. So it goes into a square image and then broadens back out when you're coming to the 90s or the modern day. At least they did that. That's a good way to visually show you, you're in a different time. Yeah, and the image gets softer. Like there's you can tell if you're paying attention, but it's also done so smoothly that you might not notice it because it's just so well integrated to what the movie is, the way it's going, that there were a couple of times where I didn't realize until a little bit into the scene, I went, oh yeah, switch back. I mean, I knew it was the past, but I didn't see the black bars right away. And then when it started to broaden out, it went, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. It keeps switching the aspect ratios. That's nice. I like that. When it's done well, you don't really notice it all the time. That means that you're involved in the story. If you notice it right away, it either means it's not being done with the right amount of subtlety or you're not completely engaged. So, and I like everybody in this, even though, like you said, that the main actress is doing her speaking thing very distinctly, I don't think it's ill-fitting. It makes sense within the movie. So, I think in the film, it is less, doesn't stick out as much, but I think everybody is great, including the Cage. I think he's playing the character correctly, and I like the fact that he's not all over the movie. They could have, if he was in a lot of scenes, I think that way of speaking in his mannerisms would start to feel like they were being done for their own sake. The fact that they save him for certain moments, and they make the characters who see him even in the normal world, like when that girl says, "Dad, that weird guy." It's not like nobody notices that he doesn't look right and act correctly. So, it's clear that he was going to get noticed. That's what I mean about it. It was kind of, at some point, somebody was going to notice this guy, because he just looked like a weirdo. And so, I like the way that he was used. And I almost wish he didn't know he was in the movie that would make it more interesting. The other person apparently that was being was considered was Osperk had said his two people were Nick Cage and Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt would have been a fascinating choice for this. No way you were going to get him for that role. Well, I mean, I remember him in 12 Monkeys, and I was like, "Well, he could do this stuff." Oh no, it's not that. I don't think Brad Pitt's going to do a movie like this anytime soon. Yeah, probably not. But it would have been interesting if he had. If it had been the same thing, you know, this is where I'm going to be fascinated, because I'm sure when the movie comes out, there'll be extras. And I'll be curious how much of this was written this way and how much Nick Cage said, "Well, why don't we try this? Why don't we do this and see if this works?" Or if this was, I would not be shocked if they said, "Well, his voice was supposed to just be normal, and we weren't going to have him all whiteed out." And Nick Cage was like, "Why don't we put all this white powder on his face and let me do this weird voice and see if it works." And it works. So, I will be fascinated on the making of this, because I haven't read much about it. I kind of went into it, went into it without trying to read too much about it, know too much about it. And I don't think it matters if you do know. Like, if you knew the story, I don't think it changes anything. It will not affect the rewatchability at all, because it's, I'm glad it's not like a Shyamalan type thing, where once you know the twist, well, some of the movie just gets lost. Some of his movies so depend on the twist, like The Village. I've tried me watching The Village, I want to say like 10 years ago, and it didn't, I couldn't make it. I just, I was like, "I don't know what this is." I couldn't make it through the first time, you're saying. No, I watched it once, and I thought, "Okay, this is interesting." You know, I didn't mind the idea of it, but it doesn't hold up, whereas the Sixth Sense is still a good movie. You rewatched that, and it's still a good movie, because Bruce Willis is very good, and so is Hayley Joe Osman, like their relationship is very good. It, that sustains the twist being no, and Tony Collette too. I mean, everybody in it is really good, so that makes it, and like the thing with his wife, and the way he's talking, like that stuff holds up, and it doesn't matter that you know he's dead. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I still like, I don't know, Jesus, who am I, the superhero? Happening? No, no, the superhero, I'm not the first one. Unbreakable, yes, unbreakable is great. Unbreak, I love unbreakable, regardless. Same reason, everybody in it is very good, it doesn't matter, it's about the relationships. Whereas the Village, that movie depends on you going, it's a monster, and then you're like, oh no, it's not. Oh, what? And then the movie falls apart, so. This is a movie where the, even if you know, right, you make the decision that's supernatural, I know it the whole way through. It doesn't matter, it's still a great movie. No, but you can go back now and watch it, and from the get-go, say it's supernatural, and see what you notice. But it would make a great double feature with either cure or sounds to the lambs. I would watch either of those with this, and it would be a great kind of crime, psychological thriller, maybe supernatural, or just a nut bag type of movie. It would be a nice pairing with either of those. So either of those go with each other too. So curing sounds to lambs, if you don't like supernatural, just watch those two, because same thing, except for, you know, American and Japanese sensibilities, which is great. On that note, whatever you watch, have a wonderful weekend, and if somebody drops a doll off at your house, whether they're from the church or not, don't keep it. Throw it away, throw it away. Best advice I could give you, because creepy dolls that look like your kids, unless you got them made, I wouldn't trust those, no matter what. That's life advice we can all live by. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you again next week. Visit ozone nightmare.com to subscribe to new episodes, browse through our back catalog, or to find links to support the show. Follow @OzoneNightmare on Twitter for the latest episode postings and other show information. If 280 characters just isn't enough, you can always email us at ozone nightmare at gmail.com. The opening theme for the show is provided by Heartbeat Hero. The closing theme is provided by Ogre. Please visit and support these artists using the links in the show notes for each episode. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] (gentle music) [BLANK_AUDIO]