Test Match Special

England v Sri Lanka: England allow Sri Lanka back into final test

Jonathan Agnew is alongside Alastair Cook, Michael Vaughan & former Sri Lanka allrounder Russel Arnold for reaction to the second day’s play at The Oval between England and Sri Lanka. They discuss the potential complacency from England which let Sri Lanka back into the contest, as well as England’s batting collapse and the questionable tactics in the field.

England bowler Ollie Stone says the side "took the aggressive option" on a day that could've look very different.

Kate Cross reacts to her career best figures as England beat Ireland in the first One Day International of the series in Stormont.

Plus, comedian & actor Miles Jupp speaks to Simon Mann about his podcast with Mark Wood, and how reflecting on his recent illness in his latest tour became cathartic when hearing from others who had experienced similar things.

Duration:: 44m
Broadcast on:: 07 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

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BBC sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Jonathan Agnew. Welcome to the Test Match special podcast on the oval, where a sloppy day for England has given Sri Lanka a route back into this final test. I saw a little round the wicket, woke, Strive, straight to extra cover. It's a strong area for him, but he's lifted it straight into the air. And straight to Milan Ratnayaka, who takes a comfortable catch. Bashir, tosses us up now, down the wicket, he comes and offers a catch. Great ball to mid on, where Josh Harlan's dropped an absolute sitter. That is the goober of goobers, I'm afraid. To come, we'll hear from Ollie Stone, who took two wickets for England, and we'll have analysis from Alistair Cook, Michael Vaughan and Russell Arnold. And Kate Cross reacts to her career best figures in England's first one day international against Ireland. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Sri Lanka on 211 for 5, which means that they are 114 runs behind England's first inning score of 325. They lost 7 for 64 today. You could have argued, I'm going to put this to our panel here. Might have been England's poorest day of the summer, I was going to just hang it out there, 7 for 64. And then it wasn't their fault that they had reduced only to bowling spinners at the end there, but did they bowl them for too long? Could they come back tomorrow with better weather? We can talk about that. As to Silva and Mendes added 118, there was a rapport miss by Hull the drop catch. After Silva, when he had 23, he's 64. And Mendes, as he keeps going for strength, the strength 54 not out. So I'm going to start with that, shall we, Michael? If I just float that thought out there, that's not been a great day for England today. Yeah, I mean, they haven't had many bad days as someone, they've won every game, and I still expect them to get over the line here, but it just felt a little bit like the end of term. And I watched them play this morning with the bat in hand, very, very expansive, that's the way they play, but I kind of wanted to say, "Oh, would you play like that against India and Australia?" You wouldn't. And then when they came out and set the fields and they had all those slips, they didn't have a fine leg. It was almost if they were setting a field. You know, when you just play school cricket and you came up against school that you just knew you were better than, and you used to have all the filters in catching, it felt a little bit like that. They didn't ball great, and then suddenly all this stone produced a decent spell. They got a few wickets and towards the back. And I like the fact that they tried off spin, but it became quite apparent quite quickly that it was too easy for Sri Lanka. And Sri Lanka will be delighted from the start of the day's play, where they were a long, long way behind the game. They've had a great day. They've had a really good day. They've a bit better this morning, they've held a few chances, dropped a goober early on. But then with the bat in hand, you know, I think they got so many scoring opportunities because of this field and this attacking nature, which England went for. So, full credit to Sri Lanka, but yeah, I think you're right, Agas. England hadn't had a great day. Yeah, and Russell's here. I mean, the reason I'm saying I'm looking at the England aspect, it was largely because of the way they batted today. I found that quite hard to comprehend really, 221 for three. You're looking at 400, aren't you? And it was the manner in which they got out, really, I think, which makes me think, but I mean, I'm taking nothing away from Sri Lanka who will be delighted, I think, with their situation. Yeah, they will be very, very happy. That's for sure. Like Michael said, I thought they both a lot better. The lines and lengths were so much better. They got the ball to move around. There were a few edges that could have easily gone into the storms once again. And you wonder how many of those were there. And hence, they deserved a bit of luck. And that came why England playing some poor shots, the decision-making in how they attacked. It was all about risk and trying to hit it to all parts. And we were really surprised that they added only 100 runs and lost those seven wickets. But from Sri Lanka's point of view, just for the effort this morning, trying to pick themselves up, I thought they deserved a break, which came. And when it came to the batting England again, trying to attack, having far too many catches, gave away a few easy runs. But the spinners, I just felt they went on for too long. Yes, there's turn, there's bounds. But when they're scoring at four and a half and just eating away at that lead, I just felt it was all right to get into a situation where the seamers can come back on and make use of the conditions. Yeah, Alistair, what do you make about this one of England's days? I feel they're a little bit complacent today. I think they just expected to turn up and continue the batting at that rate they scored yesterday. I think Harry Brook was a good example. Sri Lanka, bold 7-2 pretty much to him, bolding the channel. And he didn't like it. It was always, he was moaning the umpire saying, in jest, saying, "Oh, this is a bit boring, this is a bit boring." And then he went, pretended to bat on six-dump, and then over later slaps one to cover. So the tactic was a, was a justifiable tactic by Sri Lanka, stopped him scoring. And he didn't score particularly quickly for his innings. And that was just a little bit of England, rather finding out a method and dealing with the situation in front of you. You know, he was more about trying to kind of talk about it rather than actually deal with. I think England today, they weren't great. And they're going to have to come back tomorrow. There's still an in a healthy situation in the game, but beginning the summer, they, they decide were accused of letting good situations slip and allowing the opposition back in today. I thought they made a bit of an effort to, to try and nail the opposition down, but keeping the scoring rate down a bit, playing a bit more control cricket. And today they're kind of slipped back in the other way. And it's cost them a bit. I still think they'll win the game, but they should against a better side. If you're 200 for three, you've got to nail the opposition down and they haven't done that to them. I mean, when you're put into bat in the sort of conditions that they'll put in yesterday, you're expecting caught behinds in first-second slip. Elbow may be, but nip back. There's not a single one in that innings. It's not a single one. No one's caught in the cordon. They're basically a little bit out caught in the deep. Yeah, it's this England's method of play of being ultra aggressive, going towards the danger. If the ball's swinging around, you know, the balls are going to pitch up. So, you know, I guess in our time, you'll be trying to leave a few, trying to wear the opposition down. You try and make the ball a bit straighter. You might get one on your legs. You might have to bolt, you know, bat for a couple of maidens just to try and get that opportunity. This England side go towards that swing. The ball's swinging away. They're not thinking of leaving it. They think, "Oh, we know it's going to be full. Guess what we'll do? We'll dance down and try and launch it over extra cover." That's their method. Just be careful, Harry Brooke. That's all I'll say to him. Just be careful. He's a brilliant player. He's got everything. He's as good as I've seen. And I'm going towards, you know, Kevin Peterson style. He's an incredible player, but don't take the mic out the game. Just be very, very calm. That's all I'll say to this England side today. There's cricket and gold up there. And in a year's time, there's tougher challenges. India, Australia. And things, when you don't treat them as you should, you might be getting a bit of the rub of the green now. But when it really matters in the big five match series against the best teams in the world, you'll need a little bit of luck. At times, you'll need the right toss to go the right way. You'll need a ball to land in the right zone. You just need the VR, you know, the DRS to work for you at special times. It won't work. It was a bit worrying, though. It's cricket. It's been happening forever. You don't look after it when it's looking after you. There'll come a time where it'll bite you. And that's all I'll say to the England team today. Were you on it all day like you would be against in India and Australia? And if they looked themselves in the mirror and say, yes, we were, I would say you're lying because there weren't quite on it today. Yes. You have to change gears, which they're not doing. We thought they had talked back to changing gears, but this, you know, this match has suggested perhaps that was still lingering there a bit. Maybe brought on by the fact they won five tests this year. And, you know, there is that touch of complacency about it. But, you know, today, I would have thought this morning, I would have thought this would have been sort of a just a hard work. Get your head down, get the score, get 400, get them on the board, and right here. And off we go. I'd have thought that that's the sort of traditional way of looking at it. Well, it's the sense of actually how they have been playing the summer. They would have, they have, they have gone down again. And it's more, actually, yesterday, they did score quickly, but there was the element of control a bit yesterday. They were helped by some poor bowling, but okay, we had a bit from Ben Ducky, but everyone else, like Oli Pope, just played, just was scored and was in front of him. Yeah. No, every time they bowled short and wide, he was good enough to punish him. He didn't have to go looking for runs. I think today they weren't looking for it. Everyone, how was it? Smith caught deep, caught catching with Wicket. So those wokes, Pope on the boundary, there was just an element of carelessness today, and they haven't nailed the game down. And they could have, you know, by today, if they had another good day, they could have, they could be just so far ahead of this game that there's no way of flanking. I don't think they're going to come back and they'll still win this test match, but they've given flank a sniff. You hear from that dressing room, all about this is where we play is what we do it and so on. I just wondered, I mean, the doors shut up there now. I mean, do you think they might be, come on, we weren't our best here today. I honestly have no clue about what the conversations will be in that dressing room. They're a team that surprised me, but they also delight me a lot in the way that they play. And I like the fact that they do things completely different. I like the fact that they've gone with a young quick bottle that, you know, he's averaging over 70 with the ball in first-class cricket, but they see some. So I like what they're doing, but I sometimes watch them think, just be very careful because this game really does have a habit of biting you. When you need it, and when you're so far ahead of the opposition, don't take the mic. Don't take the mic out of the game and think you just, you know, maybe just, you know, they're good players, but don't think you can, you know, do things that no other players ever do in the history of the game, like dance down to a way swinging ball and just whack it over mid-off whenever you want. The game tells you that's not going to happen. You know, it's been, again, it's been played for a long, long time. So all I said, and just be very, very careful, they'll come back tomorrow, they'll be sharper, and I'm sure they'll nail it, and I'm sure they'll get back to that kind of intensity that we know. And we've really enjoyed over the last couple of months in particular, but there's one or two things that I saw today. And I went, you know, an opening ball without a fine leg. Yeah. Yeah. It is slightly slightly over. That's like, that's exactly what I said. They've got, they, tomorrow they've got to come back, and you're allowed bad days. You know, that's what happens in Death's Cricket. You don't, it's never, it's, you're never perfect for the whole five days. It's just, but it felt today, they kind of brought it too much on themselves. But credit and slang for hanging in there and not totally like this morning. It'd been a tough day because they've criticized quite heavily yesterday. Actually, they come out, they might have been gifted a little bit to them, but they'll there to take the challenge. If you've got 500 on the board, you can have as many slips, you can have no fine leg, you can have a short, you can have as many things as you want. That's funky and cool. But when you've only got 325, you know, it's not the right time. You have a number of catches, of course you do, but to look down and think, wait a minute, Chris, Chris works, I know he's called the Wiz, the Wizard, but even he struggled, he struggled a ball with that field, and he is a very experienced pro. So, yeah, it was a bit odd, a bit different. And I guess, this thing on the side, we're used to seeing a little bit of difference and things that we've not seen before. But, yeah, just a little bit of a warning sign for them today. No greater leveler than on this ground in 1948, when Doug Bradman walked out and got a second-ball duck of his last inning. It does, isn't it? We speak about him all the time, I guess, don't you? Yeah. And as bad as his plays, they just don't take them. There's a cricket in God up there that you need to protect, you need to look after. I'm just looking down at the far end because I can see Ollie Stone moving very smoothly towards Henry Moran. Henry. Thank you very much, indeed. I guess, Ollie, your assessment of things at the end of that. Yeah, I mean, obviously, it was a tough day in the end. Probably the way they came back into it was obviously a bit, I wouldn't say disappointing, but would have liked to have gone the other way. Maybe if we had held on to our chance and you never quite know, but no, I feel like we took the aggressive option, and we've always said that we want to do that, and I feel like the way we went about it as a unit was great. And on another day, we could have had him six down, and it would have been a very different story. With the bat, six for 35 at the back end of the day, it tumbled away, or back end of the innings, it tumbled away quite dramatically. Was there any complacency in that battle? I wouldn't say so. We've always said about taking the positive option, and when you're getting bounced as a tail ender, sometimes you can just sort of sit there and take a couple of blows and stuff. But actually, from the game, if you get a couple away, obviously, I got lucky with my top edge that went to the band. If you get a few of them away before you know at the moment, and shifts, and you come out with a ball, and it can be very different. So I wouldn't say we fell away. We just took the positive option, and on another day, it goes the other way, and we get a few more runs on the board. Was there a sense that the innings break that maybe you'd left a few out there? No, not at all. We felt like with the way the wicket was that that was actually quite a lot on there, and it nipped around still when we had the ball in hand, and they played well, and they've got up to a decent score. Chris Wokes, an off-spin. Is that a combination that we're going to see much more of? It's been a funny old day, isn't it? Yeah, I don't think so. It was a strange part in the game, actually. I didn't really know what was going to happen, whether Wokesy could stop and someone else finish it. But no, we obviously wanted to stay out there, and we felt like there was wickets out there. So that was why Wokesy turned his arm to off-spin, but yeah, I don't think that will be happening again. So talk us through what's happening out there in the middle when light issues are happening. It's so frustrating for spectators, everyone that wants to see cricket. Yeah, it is, and yeah, unfortunately, it got to a point where they said that that scene couldn't carry on, and we knew that our spinners could still get something out that wicket, and unfortunately, the chance went down. But on a different day, we take it, and you never know, you might add another couple onto the score. So yeah, we were always going to stay out there and take that positive option, because we feel like our spinners can do the job in any condition. Couple of wickets run out as well. How much are you enjoying it? I'm loving it. I mean, I was gutted to miss my run out opportunity at Lord. So to get that one here was very nice, and yeah, it's just great to be back out there. I'm loving every minute of it, and just taking every ball as it comes, and thankfully, I'm getting a couple of wickets at the same time. So now it's great, and I'm absolutely loving it. We know Mark Wood won't be featuring for the rest of the year. I never want to see a teammate, injured, but suddenly there are opportunities. Yeah, I mean, it's a massive shame for Woodie, and we feel like we've got a great group of us bowlers to do it in any condition. So, obviously, Woodie's situation means there may be another opportunity, but I feel like if I, and everyone else goes out there and performs the way we know we can, then it'll be great for English cricket going forward. Just finally, you need to break this partnership. Yeah, I mean, hopefully, we can, oh, you would hope that the seamers will be able to bowl in the morning and hope with a, still a shiny new or shinyish ball that we can go out there and, yeah, take, break this partnership, and before you know, it will have our pads on and we'll be batting again. So, yeah, it's obviously, they've played really well tonight, but we know if we, yeah, get a couple of quick ones in the morning that we're in a great position. Cheers, Ollie. Talk, man. Thank you. Ollie Stone, thank you, Russian. Indeed. Yes, that ball's 45 overs old. So, well, we saw the Sri Lanka swing it around towards the end of its life. So, there might well be a little bit tomorrow. Interesting about the field, but Michael's gone now, Russell, but I, I, I, I was a bit, I would feel that a seam bowler, I don't know, you're not spending, but a seam bowler, swing bowler, is like, is likely, I think, to be more effective bowling to a field of three slips in a gully with a fine leg, with maybe a straightish mid-wicket and a mid-on. So, in other words, you've got that sort of cover, then five slips in a gully and no fine leg, because it, for a start, those fielders were unlikely to take a catch, but the impact that losing the fine leg and the other man on the leg side has on, on, on the line that you're bowling, I'd much rather see three slips in a gully in a sensible field, because of the balance. But what England will say is we picked up 5 for 93. Sri Lankan's middle order was blown away because of those fields, Matthew's caught in the slips, the one bold straighter to Chandima, even Patum Nisankar scored very, very freely, he struck it really nicely, but they had them at 5 for 93, you'd, you'd have to argue, but there's got to be a balance. Sometimes when the runs are leaking, that has become comfortable. Take Oli Pope, for instance, under pressure coming in, he gets a few runs and then he settles in and things start to flow. And that can happen with any player, so you don't want to fall into that zone, yes, try it a bit, but start blocking those runs so that you're able to build some pressure and not let the game run away from you. Yeah, I guess like there was one over four lunches, line them up, that's fine, you know, it's one over, it's all a bit random, bats are going to be a bit tentative and jittery, but then after lunch, business as usual. It just felt like they overcomplicated today, in my opinion on that, on, you know, at that time, you know, just sometimes, he just, it is boring probably, but you've got Chris Wokes, all you do is try and hit the top of Austin, as many times as you can, his skills allow you have the filters, okay, you might have four slips, but everything else is just Lewis did, even a bit towards Bashir, bold at the end, you know, he bolted a very hard filter, bolted, you know, he had a leg slip or a short leg, and then no one out on the leg side in a mid-wick hip and a bit on. So he couldn't bolt, this is to the left-hand or sorry, so he couldn't hold that straight, because, you know, the perfect ball for an off-spin into the left-hander is pitching on and around off-stump, if it doesn't turn, it's being dealt with to play, if it does, it brings the outside into play, but if you get it slightly too straight, it's very easy to work on the on-side, and they gave no protection, and I think sometimes, you know, you can be sensible and steady and allow the condition to the pitch. Sometimes the funky fields are when it's already flat wickets, when you have to think outside the box, and I thought, it stemmed a little bit from lords, because they did it funky fields at lords, but they were a long way ahead in the game, and it happened after lunch, and they didn't boil the fine leg all the time after lunch, when they got the wickets, and I think they thought that was going to work again, because they all say, "Oh, this is what we did," and we took wickets, and you loved it, well, actually, it was a bit different today, and I think the flyer which Shank had got out, they were 40 odd very quickly, kind of dragged a little bit of initiative back, yes, they thought back quite well for 1995, but then again, you can then defend a little bit with the field, and it's not a criticism of Ollie Po, but just what I saw, I think he's captioned pretty well, I think you can be slightly more defensive at a certain time, certainly the ball moves, at the end, he had those field a bit better to work, four slips, seven, two, Chris Wilkes, bold, lovely, it was not necessarily defensive, it's actually going to make your build a bit better by having the house. I definitely thought even Chris Wilkes chased it today, he came in opening bowl, and he chased it, very hard-filled to bowl it too, but he tried, you know, and I just sort of just settled down and allowed the condition to, and guess what, and they did, it probably worked better. Yeah, let's close with a thought too about Josh Hull, then, it's on a mixed day, I mean, he's had his first knock, he got his first wicket, and he's dropped his first catch, it was a way way to start when his batting's irrelevant, but with his bowling, how do you think he got on it, but he fell five over for 20 odd. He was a bit different to what I thought it was going to be, I thought there was going to be a bit more raw pace, and a bit more wayward, actually, he was actually a bit a lot more controlled than I thought, I thought he was the point of difference, he's just height, and I assumed he was a bit quicker, and maybe we'll see that, we won't know, he will probably experience the first that he boiled a lot at lunch, whether that was the nerves, the anxiety, who knows, but actually I thought the control, he had a lot more control than I thought, and just from that natural, from that height, you've got control, you're going to be, you're going to be difficult to play, the paces were a little bit down, then all the torque we've had, oh, we've got this quick, quick bowler, he was operating 83, 84 miles now, one at 87, again, those speeds will increase, I believe, as he grows, in terms of filling his body, he's 20 years old, so man's strength comes through, but I was impressed with, I said, he's controlled, good swing back into the right hander, so okay, but the game of cricket doesn't let you have an easy ride, does it, that drop catch? No, I mean, that was just, it is what it is, and again, from a guy who's not done, I wouldn't know how much cricket, how much cricket he has played in front of lots of people. Yeah, it's just nerves, isn't it? I mean, it's just, it's just being completely out of the comfort zone, and it's, well, I thought he bowled okay, but what do you think, it's very young lad. He had a long spell at lunch as well, just to calm himself down, I thought he was impressive, I thought he'll only get better, and get a bit more pace, he does offer something very different, so if you take it, take England as a bowling unit, I think there are lots of positives, because you want different types of bowlers, one who's tall, who can get extra bounds, one who can swing it around, and here you've got a tall left armour, who'll add variation and allow you to attack in different ways, so good start, very impressive, let's see how he reacts. Well, thanks to Alistair, Michael, and Russell, stay with us, as very shortly, Kate Cross speaks to Daniel Norcross, after she took her career best figures in England's first one-day international against Ireland at Stormont. The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live Ryan Reynolds here for, I guess, my hundredth mint commercial, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, honestly, when I started this, I thought I'd only have to do like four of these, I mean, it's unlimited premium wireless for $15 and what, how are there still people paying two or three times that much? I'm sorry, I shouldn't be victim blaming here. Give it a try at midmobile.com/switch whenever you're ready. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month, new customers on first three-month plan only, taxes and fees extra, speeds lower above 40 gigabytes of seat details. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be to be. Kate Cross is leading the England women's side on their historic tour of Ireland. There's had a fine day in the first ODI. Career best figures of six for 30 saw Ireland all out for 210. She then hit the winning runs to finish 38 knot out. That's a career best score to boot. She's also got more sixes in international cricket than Charlotte Edwards. She's hopped out of the ice bath to join us from Belfast where apparently it's very hot. Is this right, Kate? There's no definitely no bad light here. It's been very sunny in storm today. How delightful. Now then, you've got to fill us in a little bit about this England side out in Ireland because one of the really notable aspects of it is that I think if I count on my hands here, you've got five debuttons, Holly Armitage, Hannah Baker, Maddie Villiers, Paige Schilfield, and Rhianna McDonald Gay. Is that right? That's correct. We had a 15-minute cap presentation this morning. Everyone had to survive a little bit early for the ground to get it in before warm up. Ebony Rayford Brett is alongside me, by the way, just so as you know. It's going to say that those five, they're all players who have started a bit in the 100. Is that what the 100 and the professionalisation of women's cricket is doing? It's just widening that catchment pool of players. Yeah, I think so. Obviously, with this tour in particular, it's overlapped a little bit with the preparation for the T20 World Cup out in Abu Dhabi. I think what we are starting to see now is the fruits of what's gone into the regional game. Obviously, I know that's going to look a little bit different next year with it being a third system going to more of a county structure, but I think what the regional games done over the last couple of years has given lots of girls' opportunities to be professional cricketers and trainers' professionals. Not worry about subsidising incomes with other jobs and stuff, but also being exposed to more matches, more games, weather under pressure, crowds in the 100, etc. So that hopefully then minimises that gap when you make that step up into an international shirt. So obviously, five Debbie's dance today was quite a lot to deal with this captain, actually, but it just goes to show where the state of the women's game is and domestically in the UK. Now, we're going to talk about England's performance shortly, but it looks like a really tight game you had out there. And I'm not entirely surprised because there are a bunch of Irish women that have impressed me and impressed me in the Women's T20 World Cup in South Africa, and all of Prendigast was once again to the four, was 76 of 87 balls. She is some talent, doesn't she? Yeah, she had a really good day today actually, and there was a moment, I think that either more about 120 odds for three, possibly off 25-overs, and there was a partnership building with Allerin and the left hand of Paul. So there was moments of pressure for us and having to think how to break those partnerships and stuff. But yeah, they've got a really exciting young team, actually, and they've got a joyce lead in them as well. He's got a ridiculous amount of experience as a professional cricketer. So I think having people like that around your group is also what stands you in good stead when you play international cricket. And obviously, they've come off a successful series against Sri Lanka just recently as well. I mean, you had a very fine five-prong bowling attack there, you, Lauren Fyla, Hannah Baker, Rihanna Mcdonald, Gay, Maddie Villiers. But you were the standout there, six for 30, you must be delighted with your performance shortly, Kate. Yeah, I think one thing I wanted to promise myself going into this tour, obviously, I haven't done masses a matter of captaincy, but I wanted to make sure that I was the best one-day bowler that I could be while still wearing the England shirt, because, you know, if I'm not doing my role correctly, then you're all leading from the front, as they say, the cliche, then it makes almost the captaincy a bit redundant, because I've still got to do my role. So I wanted to make sure that I kept myself clear as much as possible. And I think, you know, which is one of those days, it could have been anyone, but obviously always special to pick up a five-week at all in an England shirt, but it felt doubly special today, just with it being my first time as captain as well. Now, your captain out there, in large part because there's a women's T20 World Cup that will be available every ball of every game on the BBC, starting in the UAE on the 3rd of October. So for the most part, that T20 squad has been rested. I think Freyr Kemp is in the T20 squad, but also in the ODI squad with you. Is that correct? Yeah, I'm Beth Heath. So they'll both leave after the ODI's and head over to the prep camp, which you've been holding in Abu Dhabi. So this is a really good opportunity to take a look at players who are sort of knocking on the door, but you didn't have it all your own way. I mean, having restricted Ireland to 210, it required a bit of a recovery. Walter Freyr Kemp was at a 132 for five. There were still 80 odd runs to be got. You came in at eight with still another 55 to win. A bludgeoned 38 from 36 balls. Your batting is coming on, you know, because you get teams by Alex Hartley sometimes about your batting. I think she's got a thing about you ending up with the record number of runs for a number 10. Yeah, she told me I shouldn't bat any higher than 10 in this series so that I could try and get the record, but obviously, as captain, you've got the opportunity to promote yourself, you're going to do it. But yeah, she jokes with me that I'm a tail ender and I've always been annoyed at it for that because I feel like I'm better than a tail ender. But obviously, it was great to be out there to hit the winning runs. But I think what pleased me most was actually the way that best he expected. If she's not had a great amount of opportunity in an England shirt and when she does, it feels like she goes in at the back end of T 20s and is expected to hit boundaries and put pressure on bowlers. But I just thought she backed so much early today and did exactly what we needed of her to get the win, which was obviously ultimately the goal at the beginning of the day. Kossie, it's Ebbs here. Hope you're doing all right. My first thought when I looked down that line up is that you're getting a little bit longer in the tooth. You're like me and Dan now getting a bit older. So how do you find that sort of experience of being that leadership role leading some young players? I mean, I was looking down at some of the ages, you know, 18, 19, 20. How does it feel for you now being that sort of senior pro? And how do you feel that they're passing on that experience? Oh, I mean, that's probably my favourite part of being an England cricketer at them. And it is, you know, helping some of the youngsters. I've, you know, built a really brilliant relationship with Lauren Bell over the last couple of years. And I'm a person that likes to help anyway. So I think with the leadership role that I've been given on this tour, it's a little bit different because there's a lot of inexperienced, I'm saying experienced slightly, they're not inexperienced cricketers, they're inexperienced in terms of international cricket. But obviously to bring all that together and to try and win a series against an exciting Irish team was always going to be difficult. We've not had a great amount of time to prep together. But that's something that I've been coming to relish in the next couple of, well, it's only short trip, it's only 10 days. But I'm hoping that that's the thing that I step away from it and be really proud of that I was able to, you know, give some girls their first experience of what it's like playing for England. And I remember getting to play under the incredible Charlotte Edwards, she hunted me my cap. So, you know, these are the first for a lot of the girls and you want them to remember them to be brilliant experiences. And we got our first thing when to today for a five debut song. So that's, you know, a pretty special day. Yeah. And another one, I guess, is I guess that hunger, I was thinking about looking down that line up. A lot of players, Maddie Villiers, will want to get back into that international side, you know, players like Holly Armitage might want to impress and move up the order in terms of, you know, pushing higher honours. So, do you sense that feeling of hunger and sort of competition for places within the environment? Yeah, definitely. And I've seen, I said it in an interview early in the week, but there's always so much in the calendar now in terms of, you know, big events, ICC world cops and ashes and stuff that we need a big depth of English players to pick from. And I think tours like this where it's obviously frustrating in a way that we've not been able to, you know, the World Cup spot aren't able to come out here because the preparation for a T20 World Cup actually doesn't suit them being out here in Ireland. But it does give that opportunity for the players. And I said to the girls at the beginning of this that I almost want it to be a bit of a headache tour for John Lewis. I want him to, you know, come away from this with players who've really stuck the hand up and said, I'm ready for international cricket. And, you know, in 12 months time, there is another ICC World Cup 50 over cricket. So there's so many more opportunities now for girls. And I think this is like a small stepping stone in that to give people an idea of where they're at internationally and and how they might be able to perform if they did take, you know, the next step up. Thanks to Kate and Dan for that chat. And as Dan said, you'll be able to hear every ball of every game at the Women's T20 World Cup on the BBC with a tournament getting underway on October the 3rd. Now, before we go, comedian Miles Jupp joined us in the TMS comedy box at the Oval and spoke to Simon Mann. Miles, it struck me that you used to be kind of like an outsider. That's how it all started with you in cricket, wasn't it? And those people don't know the story very briefly. You know, you came to the Oval Test match in 2005 and you wanted to go in and you saw the journalist there and you thought, that would be a good job to do. And he went to India and he just kind of blanked you well on the tour of India. And then you wrote a book about it. Yeah, there was 2006 that we went on that tour. So, Alistair Cook, who was just sitting in his chair before me, that was, he made his debut on that tour, didn't he? He arrived. He scored 60 whilst jet lagged. And then when he sort of woken up a bit, scored a century in the second innings. Yeah, it was a very, yeah, so that time I was sort of, I came into the same rooms that, yeah, I was lying essentially to people. But now it's very nice to be asked officially, Simon. Well, the reason I say you've been outside of that, and you're very much an insider now, because you've been invited to the game today by the Surrey Committee, is that right? Who's over there with you? Oh, just a few former prime ministers, some members of Britain's biggest ever rock bands, former members of the Castle Bellamore, that's my bits, that's all I'm contributing. Yeah, lovely people over there. They invited me because I once made a negative remark about lords at lords at a dinner and they were so delighted, he was invited me to the Oval to say thank you. You've been trying to be Brian May? Yeah, he's very, very, very keen on his cricket actually. He's got the biggest, heaviest pair of binoculars I've ever seen. I think he uses the mainly to sort of witness interplanetary dust movement and things like that. So he let me look through them, but I felt intrusively close to the players. But I was looking at our, we had about five slips. They were all with their hands on their knees, which I thought was, is that very modern or is it very old-fashioned? That's a good question. I think, I mean, I just hope they've got good reactions, but it looked a little bit relaxed to me, but maybe that's the new vibe. Yeah, even both of course, even both used to feel where this slips with his hands on his knees. That's right, and now he's a trade envoy, so I suppose these things, they all, yeah, one brings two, yeah. Now, middle please umpire, so there's a, you know, you are acting and you do your, your tours, which we'll talk about in just a moment, but you also do a cricket podcast as well, do you? Middle please umpire with, with Mark, Mark Wood, Mark Andrew Wood of the, of the parish of Ashington. Yeah, yeah, he's, I locked down, we started doing that, and I hadn't, I hadn't actually met him before then at all. I mean, not long before I sat in the stands and he was winning the World Cup final and then, and Nathan sort of put us together and said, I want to make a podcast, you two want to do it. And so, yeah, that was, yeah, four years ago, I suppose, a little bit longer, and he's, yeah, he's just a fantastic guy. I mean, obviously, he's terrifyingly quick, but, but really nice, very genuine guy, and yeah, so I hung out with him quite a lot, really. Yeah, he's, he's, he's, you know, and he comes and does a bit of TMS, doesn't he? Yeah, yeah, he's a genuinely, genuinely terrific man, quite out there. So, you say, you hang out with, does he say I hang out with Miles Joplin? Oh, probably not. No, he probably says I hang out with Brendan McCullen. Simon Mann, apparently, he's had the odd coffee with, so things, so yeah, things are going well for him. So, you knew about his injury a few days ago? Yeah, I knew it was sort of slightly before you properly, they're not in the kind of, you know, it's not sort of hush-hush deep-throat territory, but I wanted to know how he was getting on, and I think, yeah, I think he thought it was just a sort of routine check-up, so he was slightly surprised to find out he was injured, because he didn't, he didn't think he was, but the, you know, people like him, they, they just put their body on the line, just sort of relentless, didn't he? And he's quite a, this guy, he's not much taller than you, probably, and he's charging in 97.1 miles an hour as you're hitting this summer, perhaps he was injured when he did that. I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's a massive amount of sacrifice, I think, to, to the body, to be able to perform at that, that level, and that's why people like you and I generally sort of hold it back a little bit to avoid these sorts of, these sorts of injuries. Yeah, those of you who haven't heard, it hadn't last, not all the news broke last night, the Markwood is out for the rest of the year, so he's not going to go to Pakistan, and he is not going to go to New Zealand, so that leaves plenty more podcasts, does it or not? It might do. Well, we were in contact this week, I said we should, maybe we should just, a small tour of the North East together, and just travel around some cricket club houses, if anyone wants to have us, and we'll sit there in a couple of comfort chairs and talk nonsense, perhaps. We haven't booked any dates in our meditation, but that, yeah, that's the sort of thing we could do, but it's fine, I mean, I, you know, I'd chat to him off, not just when we're on the podcast, he's, you know, he's a good, good friend really, and he's, yeah, as you know, he's a wonderful, wonderful man, but all episodes available on your, the thing, platforms, they're available. Yes, or this, this sort of language fails me, but yes, they're out there apparently. What, what are some things you talk about, do you talk about cricket or do you talk about cricket? We do talk about cricket, it's something we both haven't come, and we both are interested in it. Yeah, what we've been up to, what we've seen, I mean, most podcasts have 20 minutes of people asking how the other one is and what they've been up to, so we, that's a sort of, that's mandatory, and, and then a bit of cricket, and it really depends if he's been, sometimes he's been, you know, playing an actual series, sometimes he's been black, we're picking it just, it really, it depends when, when you catch him. Well, what have you been up to? Well, I kind of know what you've been up to, but it's worth telling everybody else, because you, you have a really serious illness, not so long ago, didn't you? Yeah, I did in 2021, I had a brain seizure, and I discovered as a result of that, that I had a benign, mostly benign tumour, something called a meningiomas, I'd have brain surgery to have that removed September 2021, so which was, I'm, I'm sort of fine now, but it was, yeah, I can't pretend it wasn't absolutely, absolutely terrifying experience to go through, and then this, this year I, I, I've written a show about it, sort of stand up show, it sounds, it perhaps sounds like a gloomy topic, but you know, it's a bit of an adventure, really, a nice to have a story to tell, you, you came Bloomsby or? Yeah, but I've watched you at the Bloomsby Theatre, I can't remember April, something like that, something like that, something like that. It was okay, it was okay. Yeah, was it fine? Yeah, evening went, yeah, you're very, you're very, it was great actually, if you, now, do you, well talk, talk a little bit more about the show, and because actually it's quite a big thing to do, isn't it stand up and talk about something that, you know, was actually must have been terrifying in your life? Well, it was, and I, but I, and I sort of wrote, wrote it as a sort of piece of, not, I kind of wrote it thinking, I don't have to perform this, but I'd quite like to write down, because I'd quite like to sort of get in, in my head, in the order of, in which things sort of happened and, and, and sort of answer the question, what was that like? Because I didn't tell people that happened, not many people knew, but when I started telling people, you know, they'd say, what was that like? And, and that, that show is a very long detail answer, to, to, to what that, that's like. And I, but then when you start doing a show, you're in, you're in, perform a mode, you're technically thinking, I must remember to say that word then, or that bit in 30 minutes, doesn't work, or whatever. What I hadn't thought about ludicrously was that, that people would come to the show because they'd had similar experiences. And so I promise of meeting amazing, sort of inspiring, very interesting people who come to the stage door, or so I've had a similar experience for my, you know, my mother has, or my son has, or whatever it might be. And, um, really understanding the first time how, how good it was to talk to other people who have been through a similar experience. And I, until I did the tour, I hadn't. I just, I'd, I'd had it myself. You know, you speak to some doctors, some consultants, some, some surgeons, but I hadn't, I hadn't actually spoken to someone else who'd been through the same, uh, experience. And I found, I found that, that sort of fascinating. And of course, partly it makes me realize how, made me realize how lucky I am because I spoke to people that had, you know, awful news at those moments in the story when I had good news. But, um, it was, it was a night, it was an enjoyable thing to do. And I hadn't really thought about the fact that it'd be that, that kind of connection. And I really liked that. And I sort of, well, welcome that. If people said, oh, my friend here has been through a thing, can you come and talk? I would, um, I would go and do it. So for you, was it kind of therapeutic or you really just, it sounds a bit callous, like playing it for lah, sort of mean. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, there wasn't just a sort of mercilessly sort of monetizing misfortune. It was, but there was, there was a cathartic element of it, but also, you know, go through an experience like that. There, you know, there's lots of moments that sort of inevitably are funny. You're going, because, you know, just somebody that's, you know, not the braviest or organized, uh, sort of person suddenly has to go through an intense experience. This was during COVID. I mean, this was, you know, sort of lockdown hospital. So it was absolutely sort of chaos, uh, in many regards. And, um, you know, there was the, some moments of real, real, real indignity. So, yeah, you can go, you can go through those, those as well. But it was a, I didn't, I didn't write it thinking that I had to do it. I just wanted to write it down. And then once I'd written it down, I went, I went to some music gigs actually. I thought, I'd like to do a show again. I'd like to go on tour and, you know, I love, I love being in a crowd, being in an audience. I love, I love that. You know, that's amazing. So I'm like, this is the third day of test cricket. I've come to this summer. And I love being in an audience, being a crowd school. That's brilliant. Well, that's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. Make sure you subscribe on BBC's Sound. So you don't miss a thing from this test series between England and Sri Lanka. And while you're there, make sure to listen to my view from the boundary with Tony Banks, one of the founding members of Genesis, which is available right now. Test Man Special is back on the air at 10 o'clock on Sunday on five sports extra and BBC sounds for the third day of the test match at the Oval. Hey, I hear you think podcasts are all about true crime, huh? Well, wise guy, the iHeartRadio apps got all kinds of podcasts. We got stuff you should know and stuff they don't want you to know. We got Bobby Bones, Big Boy and Lou Lader. We got SpongeBob, Binge Pants, and exotic erotic story time. We got doe boys, two dudes in the kitchen, green eggs and Dan. Hey, we got elf quest. We got podcasts for everything on the iHeartRadio app for free. If you don't download that, well, that's not just a true crime, my friend. 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