Test Match Special

England v Sri Lanka: Pope puts on a show despite limited play

Jonathan Agnew is alongside Alastair Cook, Michael Vaughan & former Sri Lanka allrounder Russel Arnold for reaction to the first day's play of the final test at The Oval. They discuss Pope's innings, as well as Sri Lanka's performance with the ball and Ben Duckett falling short of a century.

Duckett speaks to Henry Moeran, saying that the reason he fell short of a century was also the reason he also scored as many runs as he did.

Plus, Team GB Paralympic swimmers Eliza & Scarlett Humphrey speak to Jonathan from the Paralympic Village in Paris.

Duration:: 40m
Broadcast on:: 06 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

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Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees, promoting for new customers for limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month slows, full terms at mintmobile.com. BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Jonathan Agnew. Welcome to Test Match Battle Podcast from the Oval, where Ollie Pope has put on a show, Fernando, to Pope on 99. Is there any balls wide outside the offstop? What a beautiful shot. What a wonderful stroke to reach 100th of a minute, huge amount to Ollie Pope. To come, we'll hear from Ben Ducky who helped England with 86 and will have analysis. Other days pay from Alistair Cook, Michael Vaughan and Russell Arnold. And we hear from Eliza and Scarlett Humphrey, who have been competing in the Paris Paralympics and just so happen to be huge fans of Test Match Special. You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So, 221 for three, Ollie Pope 103 and Harry Brooke is on eight. England put into bat, they're murky conditions out there. Obviously, the right decision by Dan and Jada Silva to do that. But he didn't get much support from his bowlers. England lost Lawrence in the 10th over. A pull shot that he top edged and was taken by Nissanka in the Gully of Kumara for five. Disappointing end that. Duckett and Pope took the score up to 140, so they added 95. Duckett, sort of an ambition in the typical way that he played. He played a couple of reverse scoops along the way. Well, maybe 15-16 runs he scored, I guess, then on 86 he tried it again. Didn't execute the shot well and was caught by Chandimaal, a little lob to catch. Of Ratnag, 14 short of another 100. In game with 79 balls, that was 140 for two. Joe, who didn't look really much at home today, I didn't think. In fact, Ratnag, a bowl rather well at him. He faced 48 balls for his 13 before he pulled a catch down to Longleg, where Fernando took it off again off Kumara, who's taken a couple of wickets. So 191 for three, 221 for three then, and bad lights all them off for the field. Again, where should we start? I've got three lined up here. We've got Michael of War and Russell Arnold and Alistair. Duck, I should start with you, Alistair, since your city by yourself, to my left. Yeah, two other different angles on that day, I would think. I mean, if you look at the two dressing rooms, one will be very happy with things. And the other, I suspect, he won't be happy at all. Well, I'd like to talk about Ollie Pope and actually coming through a tough couple of games with the bat, and a tough little period he's had to experience. Probably heightened the fact he was a captain. I think if he had played like that in the first two games, there would never have been the talk about it. He said, "Oh, he's a little bit out of form." But because he's just been thrown in as it happens as England captain, as Michael know, that everything you do is heightened and everything you do. There's so much more focus on the captain, isn't there? If you're just down in the ranks, but even as vice captain, you can sort of have a little struggle or two quietly. Exactly. But as soon as it's the captain and a stand-in captain as well. And almost the narrative was how will the captain see effect as batting? Almost a 4M started, and then he had four lovelish scores. And we kind of got to the point where we said today that it didn't matter how either him or Dan Lawrence, because the other guy is under the pump, scores runs. It's all about getting him. And he fared to Oli Pope. He did look calmer at the crease in his first 20 balls, whether it's a conscious effort, always been working that something behind the scenes. He did look like he was trying to keep his head up a little bit straighter. Ultimately, you know, he punished a lot of bad bowling today. But it doesn't matter for him. He's looking to there as first test 100 as a captain. Very important. And big day. Michael, you know what? Well, that intense focus is too, don't you? On a captain and a stand-in, all the questions you're asking. Yeah, he played. I think from around the third ball I saw in Cookie's right to mention his head position. Whether it's here at the island means they're after the venue that he adores. You know, he scored so many runs here. It's a straighter way to felt more comfortable the last few days. But that head position, particularly on a pitch like this, was perfect. Because, you know, he loves that channel when the ball bounces just like this. It's got a tremendous cut shot, and they fed it. Let's be honest, they fed it all day. They're like, "Ollie, you know, we're going to get you back into form because we're going to bowl into channel and give you some nice, juicy cut shots." And every now and again, Ollie, we'll put one on your pads as well. They'll flick one on the on side. But you take away of how badly. And that has been a really poor bowling performance from Slanky. All right, they haven't got the world-class bowling performers, but they've got decent bowlers. They should be able to bowl a lot better than we've seen today. You've got to get the job done. And Ollie arrived this week with a bit of pressure. And I was worrying for him because I like the way that he plays. I like him as a character. I think he's tremendous for the team. And I thought, "Oh, if you don't get runs this week, you know, there's that crawler to come back in, Ben Stokes to come back in." There's a lot of talk of Jordan Cox. And he's starting thinking, you know, there'll be players that are going to miss out. And by scoring runs here, that all goes away. He's got a hundred. He can go on the winter's tours to Pakistan, New Zealand. With a little bit, he won't be the captain as well. And he can just get back into the ranks and hopefully play again like we've seen today. You know, there was one shy, so it was about 66. And his head was so upright and he flicked it through midweek, straight midweek for four. And I thought, "Ah, that's it. That's what I like to see." His head's nice over that off some. And last week, whether it was the slope, you know, the slope at Lord's can get you as a batter. You know, your head can fall over either side from facing at the pavilion and facing it in the nursery stand then. But straight away today, I looked down and thought, "Yeah, he's at the oil. His balance looks good." And he capitalized, you know, he had some nice shots, but he also capitalized on some really poor bowling. And just maybe, maybe for him and the fact that he has been so much more heightened, his game, and everyone's talking about him and his batting, all the stats about his starts. Actually, sometimes that might bring a real focus to him. So actually the real realization, actually, Jesus, is that true that Phil Tuffel's a better start than me? That's a bad one, isn't it? But it's a bad rod, it really is. But it is a bad one. But actually, sometimes you need that real element of truth in your game. But maybe because he was captain, that everyone started talking now, hopefully he's gone down. He scored a run of 100 today. So he hasn't gone back into his shell. But I felt when I watched his first 15-20 balls, there was a real, there's not a determination, a real method of how he's trying to fight his technique, trying to manage his technique probably better than he did in the last two games, whether that's just the way that the flow of the game, and sometimes you're in form and you're out of form a little bit. But he didn't play some big drives, he didn't have to play big drives, but he has been guilty of playing big shots straight. You're absolutely right, fundamentally no one likes criticism. You know, we've all been in the dressing room and we don't like it. But there comes a time, and I used to have it with, oh, you know, I don't like that. But then there was things that were said and I'd go, oh yeah, the right. And I wouldn't admit to them, you know, I'd never go to the journal or the expert or you got it spot on. But in your mind, something just triggers you and you go, yeah. And it's only been his starts, you know, those first 20 balls have been frantic, for quite a consistent time, and today look calmer. He looked a little bit more controlled and he got a couple away, and that's what he's got to take. And if what he takes over the last few weeks is to be a little bit calmer at the start of the innings, it's going to serve him better against the better ballers. When you go to Pakistan and you go to New Zealand, you're up against Bummer and Co, and coming later on next year, if he can find that calmer's in that head position on a more consistent basis, he will be able to survive better for those 20 balls, which will give him a chance to go and get the scores like we've seen today. I'll bring Russell in a second, Russell, but it's a last thought about this. It has been quite a low-key summer. People are looking for stuff to write about. It might have heightened the focus of people talking about Ollie Pope and his position and stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. But what I did enjoy, and I love watching someone when they come out the other end of that. Yes. Because I know what they've been through, and I know you try and put a brave face on every interview when I wasn't scoring runs as a captain or when you weren't scoring runs as a batsman, you try and put a brave face on. You try and bluff your way throughout the field when you're there. But deep down, you know, Jesus, I really want to score. I've got to score runs. And actually, when someone does score runs, it's such... You know that you've gone to the well, not great phrase. You know what I mean? Gone and dug deep and come through the other end. So you know you can do it again. And for longevity, you need that ability to... Because he's never plain sailing, unless you're Joe Root maybe, but you know every most batsman goes through these peaks and troughs of form and the slightly less good go through more than the better ones. And Ollie Pope will use this experience where he's found the last three days and getting a hundred a lot in his career. Right. Russell, how bad a day have Sri Lanka's bowlers had there on a scale of one to ten? Four probably. It has been poor actually, because the conditions were such that all you needed to do was to be patient and bold, decent lines and lengths. And as Michael said, they kept feeding the batsman on all sorts. I thought after putting them in, the Sri Lankan bowlers just felt all things are going to happen. It's that type of day. No, it doesn't happen. You still got to make things work for you. And to Joe Root, who they have struggled to ride throughout the series, they bowled well. Attacking fields came in. There were two slips, a gully, a leg slip. And that reflected in the lines and lengths and the approach of the bowlers at that stage. Joe Root, who's batting in such good form, thirteen or forty-eight. That's the period where England struggled to score runs even with the others. Did he build better at him actually, funnily enough, although he's been useful for men? That's what I'm saying. With the other batters straight away, there's a deep point, there's one slip, there's a mid-weeket. And just expecting them to come at you and get themselves out. So I think that thought process or approach, attacking approach is what's crucial. And it immediately subconsciously reflects in your execution. You get the four, I think you're a bit generous there. I think you're generous four out of ten. It's hard for me to go in. I can't go anymore. Can you go lower? Yeah, you can. I think if you bold, ironically they're bold like they did at Lords when they won the toss and bold on a glorious day. They'd have had so much more success. Russell said about what they just expected had happened and muddled thinking. The prime example of that was Dan Lawrence's first born. So Dan's under huge pressure for a score to get himself in that. He went out to bat, went to the conditions and we couldn't see the buildings. That's how low the cloud was. He had an extra cover. Dan Lawrence cannot hit the ball through extra cover unless he's 140. Like everyone knows that. He loves it to the leg side. He had an extra cover two slips. He must have just thought, what's going on? I mean, it didn't make a difference, but that just shows to me, actually. You win the toss and bold condition, there you've got a batsman under pressure. Dan Lawrence, who really struggles to hit the ball through extra cover, got an extra cover. That's not muddled thinking then, I don't know. That's fair comment. Very fair indeed. It comes down to how you set yourself up. I guess it reflects in how the bowlers will execute with the batters, just trying different things. There was probably one ball on a length in an over, whereas two on the leg side one way or way outside of stump, which just didn't build any pressure, and whatever England were looking for in terms of the conditions, they were at ease. Well, they were saying that's Sri Lankan dressing room, Michael. The problem they have is that, obviously, the two know down in the series, and they had a great chance today of doing something, and I just thought they liked intensity. The first hour, you've won the toss, your bowl, and the conditions are perfect. The ball didn't do as much as we thought. That's true. There was no intensity. They weren't buzzing around. They're both five. I was in the first half an hour. There was no intensity in the field. There was no buzzing energy. There was no one flying around. I didn't see, you know, fielders going and grabbing the bowlers' hats to give it to the umpires, all a bit lethargic, and that concerns me in the grand scheme of the Hall of Test match cricket that you've got a team there. They're probably thinking, "Oh, we just want to get on the plane home." You know, and this should be a big, big, big contest. You know, you're at the over, the big crowd, and all right, you're too knilled down in the series, but there's so much more to play for when you're playing in England's side in these conditions. I thought that was as poor a day of bowling that I've seen for a long, long time. I was trying to think, "Oh, well, I've seen it." I'm sure there's been plenty, but just in the conditions and that low nature of the cloud with the lights on, I don't think I've seen a team bowling badly. Is that for a long time? Essentially, rather, when Angelo Matthews came on, I wasn't bold for years, and he started at 76 miles an hour and got slower. It was a very strange little spell out of three hovers. He barely hit 70 by the end. It just looked a bit, you know? Well, just on Angelo Matthews, you know he's bowling 70 miles an hour. He's not going to go to 8082. Just tactically, well, you've got to have the keeper stood up to the stumps. You've got to get the batters back in the crease. Joe Root and Oli Poe, they were almost batting on Angelo Matthews' toes. They were that far down the crease because they were no threat. How's he going to get you out? You're either going to play a really bad shot or he's going to track you on the crease. Well, he's not going to track you on the crease when half a mile out of the crease batting because of the pace. It's tactically, I think, throughout the whole series, I've looked at Sri Lanka. And at times they've competed. And at times they've fought, but there's been so many times where I've looked down, tactically and got four of the miles off. A long way short of being at this level tactically. And I think those kind of things, you don't always have the expertise in your team. You don't have the moralistic things, you don't have the tremendous resources, you don't have the millingas. But tactically, they should be better than they are. And I've seen a team that's played so far in this series without the real kind of strength of tactics. I totally agree with Michael, watching them over the last few years, even in white ball cricket. They're good for ten hours, not the hundred hours. You've got to be able to continue and see how the game ends and flows and make those changes. For more often than not, play those little period, expecting the opposition to roll over. Good teams won't. And that's the problem Sri Lanka are having. They've got to poke themselves and keep going for longer periods. Do you worry about... Why do I have the wrong say saying it? Dan Lawrence has now missed out. He got two thirties in the first game. For Lawrence, this seems to be about keeping out spare batsman's slot and getting on the tours and so on. I mean, he's missed out again. That wasn't a great shot today, let's be honest. It wasn't. And it was a shot of a man who was almost too desperate, which you can get to. And also I think I was on Radio or the TV, but you've got Ben Duckett whacking it at the other end. And he was running down, he was free, he was playing exactly how he wants it to play. And Dan would love to do that. That's how he plays out his absolute best. But he knows, the England could only be about once in this game. You saw how he was trying to be like the traditional opener, five or twenty balls. And I said he's got to be careful here, he doesn't get distracted by Ben Duckett. And actually the shot he played was neither an attacking shot or defensive shot. He just showed someone who was battling demons and when you are indecisive and when you are unclear exactly how you are to play, the fact that he hasn't opened much in four-day cricket or five-day cricket or first-class cricket was probably, was shown up exactly then. He was desperate to play, obviously. The interviews were beginning to just get out of there. And a score would have changed, could have changed the thing and he hasn't been good enough to find a score, unfortunately. A little competition around, isn't it, Michael? Yeah, I mean, I feel for him because he's been giving this opportunity and he's not an opener. But what he's proven to me is that Ben Duckett was always an aggressor, but he's opened all his life. So he's always walked out there first and faced the new ball. He knows how to do it. You know, it's shown me over the last two games and one innings for Dan Lawrence's that opening the baton is especially skill. You know, there's so many that have had a go at it, but the ones that survived the longest, they've done it since they were so high. They just know how to open the batting. It's such a hard skill to master. Yeah, I feel for him because, you know, there are a lot of people that are coming through. Jordan Cox, I've mentioned just a short while ago. He, I think, will be on the tour. Often you're better off not playing for him. Yeah, and by doing what, and then also it's his code, like the mode of dismissals in this series, you kind of watched Dan thought, no, it's not been great for him. He hasn't played great, but, you know, don't rule out in being a spare batter because England pretty much are quite loyal with players, particularly good people. I think he's a good guy, you know, he's a good guy in the dressing room and I think there's a lot to be said for that. I was desperate for him to get a score today. I just wanted him to go and just play the Dan Lawrence ways on his ground. Obviously, he plays for Surrey now and you're thinking, if he can get to 20, he probably could go, but it's getting to 20. And it's so, so difficult at this level when you're under pressure and you haven't got the, the mounting of runs behind you, you know, to kind of draw back on. Yeah, he'll, he'll hope to have a second innings and I still think if he gets the second innings and gets a half decent score, I still think he'll have to sit by the phone and hope that that phone rings for a, a winter tour spot. That's what you're going to see, Ben Duckett making his way down the steps along with Danny Rubin, who's the media manager with the team, of course. So, Henry, thank you very much, Agus. Yeah, Ben Duckett alongside me. Floodlight's beaming down a bit of a gloomy day. What are your reflections at the end of all that? Yeah, I think an incredible day. I think conditions were with them all day and the pace that we scored. And, you know, from losing the toss and getting stuck in and then being whatever on now three down, yeah, we'd have definitely taken it. As an opener, when you see the coin go up and you know you're going to be batting under these sort of skies, what's your feeling? Yeah, I had a feeling today. I always kind of rock up on day one and expect a bat, just because, you know, I'm opening on first out there. And, you know, sometimes on pictures like that, they can go searching and you can actually get off to a flyer. So, you know, that actually wasn't the case. They didn't quite get off to the flying start, but, yeah, I think playing. Most of my cricket now at Trent Bridge, where you do get stuck in on green tops, you kind of get used to it. Any frustration at falling short of a milestone, or do you see that as job done at the top of the order? No, I mean, yeah, big time. I'm very, you know, I always want to score hundreds and match winning knocks, but, you know, I wasn't playing today for 100, which I'm happy with. And, you know, the reason why I went from 50 to 80 yards so quick was because of that shot. I've kind of thought about it for a while now, and, you know, with the coaching staff been thinking about playing it. And, yeah, maybe one of those where, you know, it was kind of hard to not play. It felt like I could do it every ball, and they were bowling a good length, and the final leg was so wide. So, yeah, I'd just go and hit it over the top next time. Do we sometimes, watching on the team, actually change our parameters a bit, and it looks like an unusual shot, because we're just not used to seeing it. But, actually, it is a high percentage scoring shot for you. Yeah, that's completely up to you guys. You know, the reason why I've been thinking about playing it is because especially in Test Cricket Bowlers look to kind of buy the same length every ball. You know, the ball I got out to was actually the perfect ball for me to play that shot. You know, it's one of those. It's about using it at the right time, I guess. Yeah, and, obviously, downwind when I was playing it earlier, and, you know, he was biling a really nice heavy length. It felt like the only way I was going to get out was kind of the way that I did. Yeah, and it's one of those. It's probably like the kind of era win where, you know, reverse sweeps is a go-to shot now against spin. I know you don't see many opening batsmen play the scoop shot, but it's a shot that I like to think I play well. Yeah, and, you know, next time, head it before. A word on Ollie Pope, that innings will have made a lot to him today. Yeah, I think you could see the emotions. There's obviously been a little bit of noise, you know, it's him taking over captaincy, and, you know, I think if a number three doesn't score runs in two games, you know, there shouldn't really be any criticism in the slightest. You know, I think he's got a couple of 50s and 200s of summer, so, you know, it's character to him. We all knew that, you know, his ability and his skill and, yeah, I'm so happy for him. Dan Lawrence has had a tough time at the top of the order. You know that the challenge is of opening. What are you said to him? Not a lot today, you know. I think sometimes, you know, less is better. You know, when you're back in the middle of most of your career and then coming at the top of the order, it is a completely different game. And, you know, on another summer, I think, he's got one more knock, and he could go and get 100 and win this game. So, you know, that would be my only thing I'd say to him is, you know, stick to your game, and hopefully it will come good second innings. Just last year, we've been debating all day up in the country box how we can get more cricket on days like today. It is frustrating, particularly for the supporters in. If there was a pink ball introduced when it got a little bit dark, how would you feel as a batter? It depends how new that pink ball was, I guess. It's frustrating. I actually think we've probably got more cricket than we probably should have done today. I think the umpires did keep us out there for a while, and there were certain periods where it was really dark. You know, it's just sometimes the English weather. I'm not sure how I'd be too happy on a different ball coming out. If it was dark and then 10 minutes later, it gets light and you go back to a rebel. So, yeah, unfortunately, there's not much we can do. Well played today, very thanks. Cheers. Ben Ducky, 86, looking at his stats. 950s, 300s. It should be 5, really. Harry Brooke, 950s, 500s. You know, I mean, it tests batsman. I'll define by the centuries, aren't they? I mean, that's two obvious ones he's missed out on, but I mean, including, obviously, the one against Australia last year at Lords. Yeah, I mean, you don't want to sit next to Ben Ducky. He's positive about everything. Everything's possible. It's great. I mean, it's a great mentality. I actually like the shot he's trying to play. I think with the field, and he mentioned it finally quite wide. You know, he just played that flick over the keeps head quite nicely. So, I'd be looking more at the execution of how he got out, but, you know, you are just on centuries. What I will say to him, at the minute, he'll be delighted. He's got an 80-odd. There may be in a year's time, you know, when you're looking, I call it puts money in the bank. You know, these are the kind of attacks in the conditions that I've seen today, where the ball hasn't done a great deal, where I'd got to put some in the bank. You know, get a big, big score in the bank because when Bumra comes at you, Cummings comes at you, Stark comes at you, Hazel comes at you, Shami comes at you, Siraj comes at you. There is a chance they might get you out for a few low scores, and you need a bit in the bank. And if you kind of have nice contributions before you get to them, and you've just got a little bit of a store, you know, you've got something in there. He'll just carry on playing that way, but I just want him to realise that, you know, when he finishes career, he'll probably look, I remember getting out in the hundred nineties twice. I look back, "Oh, I didn't just get a double." You know, why don't they go and get 200 out? And I just hope, you know, he's having the time of his life, he plays this intensity in this aggressive nature, which is fantastic to watch. It's a bit reckless at times, and we know he's going to play those big drives, and you kind of watch, "Oh, come on, just leave a few, but he doesn't." He's just going to carry on that way. But, you know, for England to be high, high class and for England to beat the best teams in the world, if you get to 80 odd, you've got to get a big one. Yeah. We talked about Sri Lanka's bowling. It just feels that England's bowlers are waiting for their chance, isn't it? I mean, I think they would have been pretty difficult today. Well, I mean, you've been a bowler. I guess you should have been sat on that balcony all day long thinking, "Oh, yes." Go on, get 400, get 450, and then we'll have a go tomorrow afternoon. I believe the clouds are going to be around for a few days. I think this pitch will probably get a bit quicker, and it'll be a little bit better for bowling. So, the Sri Lankans already in the series have struggled, particularly that top order. I can't imagine it's going to get any easier for them on this kind of pitch against Wokes and Co, with a Duke ball, with a little bit of movement. Thanks to Aleister, Michael, and Russell. Stay with us as very shortly. I will be talking to the twin sisters who have been competing in the pool at the Paralympics in Paris, and they happen to be huge TMS fans. The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. It took a lifetime to find the person you want to marry. Finding the perfect engagement ring is a lot easier. At bluenile.com, you can find or design the ring you've always dreamed of, with help from bluenile's jewelry experts, who are on hand 24/7 to answer questions, and the ease and convenience of shopping online. For a limited time, get $50 off your purchase of $500 or more with Code Listen at bluenile.com. That's $50 off with Code Listen at bluenile.com. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile unlimited, premium wireless. Get $30, $30, $30, $30, $30, $20, $20, $20, $20, $20, $20, $15, $15, $15, $15, $15 just $15 a month. So, give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees, promoting new customers for limited time, unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month. Plus, full turns at Mint Mobile.com. I'm excited about this. We're off the Paralympics in Paris. I've got two young ladies on my screen in front of me here waiting to talk to me live from the village. There's been remarkable games joining us on the Olympic Village. 19-year-old twin sisters, identical twin sisters, Eliza and Scarlett Humphrey have been competing in the S11 class for blind or nearly blind swimmers and both have made the finals in their respective events. They're big fans of Test Match Special, and we can say good afternoon to them both now. Hello, you too. Hello, Bonjour. Bonjour, very okay now. How's it been? Have you had a good time? It's been incredible. It's been a great experience. We've loved it a few seconds ago. Now, who's that? Is that Eliza or Scarlett? I'm Scarlett and I'm Eliza. Right, okay. All right, obviously, both sound identities are very confusing. Was it what you expect? Has it been gone, then Eliza, tell me, has it been as you expected? I didn't really know what to expect to be honest. I heard it was an amazing experience because one of our teammates from our club, Northampton Summit Club, went to Tokyo, so she said, "It's an amazing experience." It truly has been. It's been incredible being part of the athlete village representing GB, and the crowds also watching the swimming have been incredible. So, yeah, it's been an amazing experience. So, she wasn't lying. I guess it's sort of the scale of it, really, that gets you, is it, compared to normal competitions? Yeah, we've never been to a multi-sport competition for, because, obviously, we just have the power of swimming meets. But we have, there's 22 sports at the Paralympics, and mostly athletes are staying here in the athlete village. So, there's about 3,000 athletes. That's incredible. So, the number of athletes in the number of countries here is just beyond what we're used to, but we love it and we love how much energy and positivity everyone has towards the Paralympic movement towards their sports. Yeah, and do you get to mix? Do you socialize? Is it that kind of an event, or is it fiercely competitive? And you just ignore everyone else, maybe over the country? When people have their events, I think they're quite focused on the days in the lead up to their events. But then, during, when you have, like, meals and stuff, you can see all the different athletes around. So, you can talk about their sport or their country. You see them, but we'll pass them. So, like, today, we're on the bus with athletes from wheelchair basketball, and that's the sport. I have, like, not really followed, so I was there explaining the rules and how they've been doing, and I can't really, really interesting. So, yeah, you get to talk to people. I have seen that. I'll tell you what, it's got a brutal sport. Yeah, I thought I was going to say something about it. Yes. Now, what about your cricket, then? Let's start with that. Because your lines start with the lines, again, the lines that you've listened to, test match special. Oh, yeah, I love test match special. It's really, yeah, I love listening to it all the time, every time it's on. Yeah. Why? That's the obvious question. What is it about? What is it about cricket for a blind listener? I mean, we have a lot of blind listeners to test match special as well. What's the appeal, do you think, of cricket on the radio, then? I guess it's because you've got a certain position, so it's easier to visualize because the ball goes to those positions. And obviously, there's only one ball, I suppose, that's easier to follow, what's going on. Yeah, I think maybe that's a great description. Yeah, and TMS do really good descriptions as well, so you can really visualize being there and watching it. Yeah, because the blind listeners pull you up, if you get something a bit wrong, or want the detail, or remember, once talking about a straight drive for four, and a blind listener got in touch with them and said, "But it can't have been a straight drive because it's been a straight drive. It would have hit the wickets. It would have hit the stops when the bowler is." So did it go to the leg side of straight or to the off side of straight? And of course, it's right, isn't it? Because that is the sort of detail that if you are sitting and listening, you actually want to, actually, every listener, definitely a blind listener to that sort of level of detail, but it's often a blind listener that will ask for that specific level of detail, which actually makes it, hopefully, a more detailed experience for everybody. Yeah, you can really visualize what's going on through the commentary, because, yeah, as you said, there's so many different terminology and crickets, but it's so precise and so logical, but it depicts exactly what's happening on the screen if people are watching it on television or live. So you can follow what is going on, this fame is everyone else. So, yeah, if you're excited or not, you can follow, even if you haven't got access to a television. So just the precise nature of cricket, I think, lends itself to be followed by the blind community as well. Yeah, that's really interesting. Do you go to games? Do you go to live games with the radio in your ears? Yeah, we follow our local teams. The fans still have. You're all fans here, aren't you? Are you all fans? Yeah, no, I'm all fans. So, yeah, we go to their games down then, and then we've been to a few international matches, but we're looking to go to more. I'm going to file a statement because we can ask them so exciting. Oh, yes, that's just brilliant. Now, I want to hear all about your completing, because I, again, watching blind cricketers is absolutely awe-inspiring. And just incredible as to how on earth they hit this little ball that makes a jingling sound and bang, you know, and they do it, and brave as well, again, standing very close with some clumping shots. So you just sit and watch in total admiration, and I guess we're out to watch you swimming. It would be much the same. I mean, it's just, you know, for sighted people to see non-sighted people competing like this is very inspiring. But tell us about what you do. What is S11? So, in swimming, there's 14 classifications. So S1 to 10 is for those of the physical impairment, S11 to 13. Those are the vision impairment and S14 and intellectual impairment. So S11 is the most severe site category. So some of us have live perception to know vision. So we compete with black and goggles on, so you can't see out of them. So everyone's on a level playing field. And then at either end of the pool, we have tapas, which people have long sticks with a ball on the end, and they tap us on the back, the signal when the wall... But as it's two strikes out from the wall, two signal that the wall is coming so we can perform turns and finishes to a short safety. It just sounds absolutely incredible. And the fact that you do put these glasses on so you know that everybody is on a level playing field at Eliza. That actually gives total integrity to that sport, doesn't it? Yeah, I think because we have some people who may have some light perception. It makes it fair playing field. So if it's garden, I have no light perception, but if people did, it makes it a safe fair. And I think that just increases the fairness of our classification, which is nice. Yeah, I have to establish what strokes you do. So Eliza, what's your specialist stroke? I did the 400 freestyle sets front crawl, and I did the 200 medley here in Paris. So yeah, like a bit of a distance freestyle and I like a bit of medley as well. Right, Eliza, stuff, what do you do? I'm a bit of a busy student. I'm one of my high in the bench. So I did the 53 and the 400 freestyle, the 200 individual medley and the 100 breaststroke, and that's past the relay front crawl relay as well. So mainly medley, so that then it's up to them, all four strokes individually as well. Yeah, so proper all rounder then. Yeah, proper rounder. Yeah, proper rounder. Yeah, okay, sure. And things like, you know, practice and the hours that you have to put in. It strikes me as being a sport that you need a huge amount of support. And I guess, again, you probably need more support to be able to do what you do. There must be a lot of people out there that you might think a bit of a shout out to, and maybe to describe the sort of support that you do have to be able to take part in this sport. Go on then, Eliza. Yeah, so we train, I think, 17 and a half hours a week. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot. And then, obviously our parents take us to training, and then we have great people on poolside who tapped for us. So, yeah, the volunteer time, and also a poolside assistance, who also, I have described what the coach is trying to tell us and stuff, but like, technique and stuff. So yeah, we're very grateful for that. Yeah, and we... Yeah, I think... Early start. Early start, Scarlett, is it? Oh, yeah, early start. So five till seven in the morning. Yeah, you don't need sleep, you discovered. Seventy hours, five till seven in the morning. Yeah, I said, yeah. We do most evenings. So we do evenings five times a week. Oh, yeah. Two and a half hours. Two and a half hours, yeah. So two hours or two and a half to pan. So we do five evenings, and then three mornings, but only two of them are five o'clock starts. So a half six, and a half six feels like a lie. Yeah, that's, well, you've quite right, too. Tell me, what is it that you get out of swimming then? Tell me, tell me swimming. I've never been a swimmer, to be honest. So go online. What do you get out of swimming in particular? I just like the challenge of beating your own times, because it's like you against the clock sort of thing, and then obviously the competitors were beating them. But you've got obviously a time to aim for. And so beating that, once you beat it, it's really exciting. So I think the challenge of beating your own personal best, that keeps me really motivated, because I'm like, yes, that's just a great feeling when you do that. Do you sort of switch off, Scarlett, when you're swimming, lap off to lap off to lap? No, you always, well, sometimes it's really boring. They're being honest, that's good. You're fixing a lot of technique and trying to keep up with the intensities that I'm meant to, but you just always have something to concentrate on whether it's a technique focus or something you want to keep working on. So I think, but the main thing is just enjoying what you're doing. So if you enjoy it, like every session or every hour you put in, then it isn't a hard shift and you shouldn't get bored. But for me, I think the joy of the swimming is for us anyway, we're free because in the water, there's no barriers or restrictions that we may have on land, because there's no obstacles to get in our way that may occur on just free to float along in our lane. And there's no one to bang into and no obstacles, so we're just free. Thanks to Eliza and Scarlett for that chat. Well, that's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. Make sure you subscribe on BBC Sounds. So you don't miss a thing from this test series between England and Sri Lanka. And while you're there, make sure you check out my conversation with Rob Key, the managing director of England Men's Cricket, where we discuss the very latest ahead of England's test series in Pakistan in October, as well as Brendan McCulland's new role as head coach of the Red and White Ball teams, and Jimmy Anderson continuing as the fast bowling mentor of the side. Test match specials back on air at 10 o'clock on Saturday on five sports extra and BBC Sounds for the second day of the test match here at The Oval. At Amika Insurance, we know it's more than a life policy. It's about the promise and the responsibility that comes with being a new parent, being there day and night, and building a plan for tomorrow, today. For the ones you'll always look out for, trust Amika life insurance. Amika, empathy is our best policy. Hey, I hear you think podcasts are all about true crime, huh? Well, wise guy, the iHeartRadio app's got all kinds of podcasts. We got stuff you should know and stuff they don't want you to know. We got Bobby Bones, Big Boy and Lou Lader. We got SpongeBob, Binge Pants and exotic erotic story time. We got doe boys, two dudes in the kitchen, green eggs and Dan. Hey, we got Elf Quest. We got podcasts for everything on the iHeartRadio app for free. If you don't download that, well, that's not just a true crime, my friend. 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