Test Match Special

The Changing of the Guard - England’s future stars

Jonathan Agnew is alongside Alastair Cook, Steven Finn & Kevin Howells to discuss which young players could become England stars in the future. Following England’s white ball squad announcement, 5 uncapped players have been called up with Jonny Bairstow and Moeen Ali the big names to miss out. They look at Essex batter Jordan Cox, Hampshire seamer John Turner and Leicestershire left-arm bowler Josh Hull. Whilst also focussing on Warwickshire’s Dan Mousley and Jacob Bethell.

Duration:: 35m
Broadcast on:: 02 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

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So we're going to have a chat about the changing of the guard really that seems to have been happening within English cricket this summer, which is a really interesting contrast really to where we were last year when the fiercely in defence of Zach Crawley, for instance, who was struggling and there's never any question really about dropping people. But let's have a look, there's no space for Johnny Baerstow, Maureen Ali, Chris Jordan in England's white ball squad to face Australia next month, that's 3-20s and 5-1 day internationals. But five uncapped call-ups, so Warwick has Dan Mosley, Jacob Bethel, Josh Hull, the left arm fast bowler from Leicester, I'm going to keep my eye on. Perhaps your fast bowler John Turner, Essex, we hear you about some Jordan Cox, Cox and Hull have also been around the test squad, but they haven't played a game yet of course. So it just adds that feeling of that changing of the guard as ours is describing. So if you think so, they started with the farewell to Jimmy Anderson, that tap on the shoulder on the golf course, no selection, Ben Fox, Jack Leach, Ollie Robinson, we mentioned Johnny Baerstow. So let's delve a little bit more into these new players who've been called up to the England squad and let you know the names of players who might be on England's radar on the next couple of years. They've got Alistair Cook with me, Stephen Finn is a long side, it's down the way there. Kevin Howells are a ward-winning doyer and a cavalry cricket. I didn't write this actually, Kevin. I did. No, I didn't. Great, great to have you with us, Kevin as well, of course. You are the... No, no, no. Move on. Move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. You watch a lot of it. We're only here a second about that sort of, I don't know, but basketball seemed to be fun and backing everybody and all of this together and off we go marching off into the future. Yeah, Zach Crawley was averaging with 20 or it was, but well, he'll play, of course he will play. Well, we're not going to drop anybody. And yeah, actually when this year, if you look at it, Finney, let's start with you. I mean, that's quite a lot of changes there, isn't it? Expensive changes, because there are players named there who are actually on contracts getting on for a million pounds a year, who, Johnny Best, I think it would be a miracle to see him playing frequently, and because they are moving on. Yeah, it makes that decision during the World Cup to offer all of those long-term contracts quite strange, doesn't it? Like rushed and quite forced. It panicked stricken. I mean, they were talking to other leagues. Oh, like you've got Mark Wood, he's going to go join that Abu Dhabi, we've got to get him in. And we were there as well, weren't we? And we sort of sat there in the commentary box when they got announced and thinking that this is odd timing. They're on the cusp of the going out of the World Cup, and it was almost as though, right, we need some feel-good factors around English cricket, and these contracts were going to do that. And yeah, it does seem strange. I mean, for the first time, actually, when we're talking about test cricket now, when McCollum and Stokes came together, it was that series just after Broaden Anderson had been left out in the West Indies. That's right. And the first thing that they said was, "We don't care about people's age, we want to play the best team that we think is going to win the game on that day, and we're going to play that team in the test match." And that served them really well for the first year or so until that series in Pakistan that they won, which was actually the last test series that they won before they beat the West Indies a few weeks ago. And this summer, it seems as though they've had a re-evaluation of where they're at and what they're actually going to get judged on, I think, as a captain and coach partnership. And yes, winning these test matches at home has been fantastic in 2022, but I think after last summer, they've realized that the pinnacle of what they're going to achieve is going to be beating India next summer and then beating Australia, ultimately in Australia, at the end of next winter. So I think now, for the first time, they've looked and they've said, "Right, we need to start getting people ready to be able to challenge Australia in Australia." And I think that these selections are all a nod towards that. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I'm not being so critical, but it does seem a bit like a change. And this summer was the one to change, wasn't it, with the West Indies and Sri Lanka, India next summer, Australia after that. This was the summer. Yeah, to give Jimmy the tap on the shoulder, Alistair. Absolutely. It's a free hit in one sense because no disrespectful to West Indies and Sri Lanka that they're not the strongest of nations, England went very short-termist as soon as Chris Silverwood was replaced because Chris Silverwood, alongside Ashajajajajajaj, alongside Covid, was all about managing players trying to get them through, which I actually feel a little bit sorry for those two, because they were doing the right thing and playing in bubbles and et cetera. I mean, since Matt's talking about bubbles, life, that was kind of the word. I understood that. And they kind of carried on a little bit after that, probably too long saying, "Well, he's going to play here, look for here, here." And then Brendan and Stokes came in after all that, I was like, "Right, what's our strongest side today? We're playing now. What's our strongest side tomorrow? We're going to do that." And it gave the players clarity. It gave everyone, and actually it built nicely. Suddenly now they looked at the end of last year and ended your way, but it probably actually ended up in Australia, I was like, "Well, they didn't win that series. We need some planning." And this is the result of the planning and who they're picking, and it is really intriguing, because it's just such a different change of mentality for me. It's the right mentality to change, but it is amazing how you go from one way to suddenly another way straight away. And they do seem to have earmarked a certain type of player that they want to pick as well, haven't they? They have certainly in the test team. I think the one day team is a bit different, they don't quite know their best side or their best coach. There are some flux there, yes. They are very, they are in a totally different place for this. This is a different one. This is for the test match. It's a very different summer, because I look forward to, as Finney's quite right, India and Australia. The one day side is just all up in the air at the minute. It's actually by some of the selections, in my opinion, they're like, "Why don't we not know about this play? Good time to try them, but do you know what I mean? I didn't know this. It's a bit like the one this is. I didn't know it was about to happen and I'm in the game. They don't know who their coach is. They don't know what their best 11 is or their best 15 is, so they're basically starting from a bit of a fresh, fresh sheet of paper. It feels like from the one thing under all the stuff we're talking about, there is so much talent, certainly in the whiteboard thing that they can pick from, and it is an exciting time to be around, I think, now, for that one day side. Yeah, and they've got some one days coming up. We've got Australia, of course we've got West Indies, haven't they? They've got a few in India, then there's the Champions Trophy, which I don't know how seriously, I mean, it's an interesting tournament and it's fun, but that World Cup's on the target, isn't it? I mean, they will be building more for the World Cup in South Africa than the instant gratification of a Champions Trophy. Do you think or not? You'd say that, like, I think, but in reality, no, because knowing what it was like to lose a final of a Champions Trophy, knowing what that felt like and what it kind of did, like the white jacket you missed out on. Well, the white jacket, I mean, I don't have many jackets, I would love to be pulling that one out and out. When you're in that tournament, you're just desperate to win it. You are, so I don't think they'll pick there, they won't have their eye on the World Cup. They will want to, well, I think they should, because you win a trophy, doesn't matter what your football teams are dying to in trophies, England teams, international teams are dying to in trophies, because actually, it's something you will remember forever, no matter what the trophy is. Yeah. Okay, let's put it to the background, so we've got Kevin there at Trent Bridge. I think what Kevin, what we'll do is because you're out of there on the road and you're seeing a lot of these younger players who are being called up, so perhaps you can sort of give a bit of a resume of, I don't know, you've talked to other people too, don't you? You're out there on the circuit. Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that I need to say is because of the nature of the job, of course, I don't see a great deal of second division championship cricket, and I've always been fascinating. I go back as long as maybe 30 odd years, when it came to selection, and you might remember this a little bit, there was this, this line of thought was that selection was based on if you did it in front of Ian Botham and when he was watching on the sky and you got into England, you need to perform then. Now, we're at this point where I think we've come through, and I was never too certain whether it was true or not, or how true it was, but there was this idea that if you didn't play for a fashionable club, or you didn't play for a first division club, maybe that mattered more to the batters and the bowlers, I don't know. But I'm looking at these lists and names, and the other thing just to throw them before I start talking about them is it clearly is one of the exciting bits of the job is you do get to see players as they begin their journey, and that genuinely is great to watch, and I will just throw in just a quick mention, if I may, for the much maligned now, one-day cup, the Metro Bank one-day cup, because that genuinely, whether it be by necessity rather than design or not, you do get to see a lot of very young players, and the one I remember seeing in the one-day cup a couple of years ago was the Hampshire bowler, John Turner, who, you know, in that competition, players literally do, seemingly, appear from nowhere, and you think, "Who's he?" you know, "What's he about?" He came in, he played for Hampshire, did a terrific job, who was taking away his clearly, and this is something you've touched on already, and you'll know that, talk more with Finnegan and Lannister there as well, you know, this pace that they're looking for, so he had that. The only problem with that one-day cup is that players can make their appearance during that, seemingly do really, and well, do really well, and then they don't really get another opportunity, some of them, until the following year, July or August, but, you know, certainly John Turner, who's 23-year-old in the T20 this year, he took 15 wickets in the championship, of course, he's, I mean, like all bowlers, he has to be a little bit careful with injuries and that sort of thing, but, you know, to get into that Hampshire attack at the moment, you've got Carl Abbott, Keith Barker, and Moabas in the championship, that is not the easiest to try and break into, but he's doing a terrific job in one-day cricket, and of course, although this, you know, might be to this county cricket, I have been watching the 100 as well in attending those matches, and it's great to see some of these players clearly make quite a lot of progress a few weeks ago in that competition. Josh Hull, for example, I saw Josh Hull in a T20 game, and he was playing for Leicestershire up a Durham, where it was quite a little scoring of fear, but, but, Leicestershire's bowlers were just terrific, and Josh was very much leading that, but, you know, the idea is to, what, play 10 first-class matches, and it's being so highly thought of, he swings the ball with so much pace, he's six-foot-seven, so clearly some excitement there, and Leicestershire's, you won't need me, reminding you, Jonathan, did so well at this very ground only last year in the one-day cup again, so there's another reason, perhaps, to think that the one-day cup's got a bit going for it, in, you know, for him, and for Leicestershire, that is a really important competition, and although it wasn't the biggest crowd, it's quite a high profile, so those are players, you know, you could look out for, and the reason I mention that second division is because, Gloucestershire, they're not necessarily doing very well in, in the second division, the championship Gloucestershire, but they've got a couple of players, Godzaman Akhtar, and Ajit Singh Dale as well, two, you know, quick bowlers, and two bowlers, who are featured for the England Lions, and again, doing the business there in the second division, and getting noticed, one thing I just want to mention as well, it mustn't be a long list, is Jordan Cox, I think he's on your list as well, it may be you're going to talk about, and the thing for Jordan, and what makes it, you know, things that have stood out for me, I think he's been released again, to go and play for Essex this week, last week, he got released from Old Trafford, he drives all the way down there to Southampton, taking on Hampshire, he scores 141, now I'm not saying it's the hardest thing in life to do that, you know, compared with other people, but I think that's a terrific response from him, and the fact that he was one of the replacements, along with Dean Elgar, who had to replace a certain size to cook, and also down Lawrence and that Essex team, and they've done, you know, I'm sure, so I still wouldn't mind your mention, they've done better, but they have filled those shoes more than admirably, haven't they? They've done a terrific job, and for Jordan Cox, you know, again, I think that just shows he's got a lot of maturity there as well as a lot of skill. All right, thank you, where you've introduced some of the names there, which is great. Shall we start with the bowlers? It's interesting, because actually he did mention there about some second division, I think it's when Jeff Miller was a National Centre, it was pretty much, whether he actually said it or not, or whether it's quoted as saying it, basically you need to be playing first division cricket, really, to play for England, and there was a bit of movement around the counters, actually, as a result of that, I mean, Titch Taylor, I think, might have moved away from Leicester series, I mean Stuart had gone earlier than that, but there was a bit of a move from second division counties to go to first, because actually you felt that you were unlikely to get picked actually in the second division. You are, you're, I was playing second division cricket, so I'd already kind of made my debut, so there is, and Finney goes, I was as well, he just mouthed it, so I'm a little bit, actually, if you're good enough, I think you play, I think you, the argument is where you're playing second division, so, you know, it's a big step from second division to, to a test match, but I was playing a test match, go back and play second division and then go back and play a test match, so I'm, I'm not entirely sure, you got knocked over by Steven Finney between test matches. That was a, that was a dark day, Agas, I think you got me twice in the game, twice in the day, didn't you? That was here at Lords, we'd both played test by that stage, so I, I don't quite buy that, I do buy the argument of players leaving smaller counties to play slightly in, at bigger counties, which will help them because there is, there is an expectation when you play at a first division, big side, and there is, at a, and this is a game without disrespecting any of the younger county or the smaller county, the Gloucesters, Leicestershire, and you do well, but you're not going to win anything, so really, so it's kind of, it is that, there is that exposure and, well, it's just more like, if you're doing it for Nottinghamshire, I don't know how the heck they could go down, bigger counties, you get more notes, but if a young, if a guy comes in and does really well, and he can play, it doesn't matter if you're playing a second division, or the first division, because I think you, you will suddenly, and this is here and now, I think, I never looked at anyone where he's just doing a second division, he can't, he can't be picked. Let's look about Josh Hull, who's here, and I've watched him build a day, out the back, and he's, because what's, what's nice actually about, about having him and others around, is actually with the second division or not, actually they're now in the big time, and you're rubbing shoulders, and you're, and you're experiencing all of this, and, and it's bowling in the nets to, you know, to England players is, is a good thing, he's, he's only 20, he's a big lad, he's got some proper pace actually, hasn't he, and he, and he does the right, from the left arm, you want that ball to come back in, and he, and he, he does all those things. Yeah, I think Cookie's exactly right actually, as well, when you look at bowlers and selecting bowlers, I think you look at raw attributes, I certainly benefited from that when I was 20, and, and, so Alistair gave me my first cap, I was six foot seven, I could bowl 90 miles an hour, and immediately that makes people look at you, and I think Josh Hull was very similar, you know, he's, he's not got that much experience, but you look at him physically and watch him bowler ball, and you think that's something different, that's something that could be quite special, so I think that's the reason why he's been thrust into these environments, and, and the environment is the key word there, I think Cookie said before play, he's not here to come in and take the new ball in a test match, he's here for Stokes, McCollum, the rest of the players, the senior players, to be able to just have him in and around the group, see how he interacts with people, get him experiencing a big first day at Lord's in front of this crowd warming up, because it does feel completely different, and it allows them to look at him in the nets for Stokes to face him, and, and I think from a bowling perspective, and Cookie will be able to confirm this or not, but when you're down there and you're facing someone, you get a real feel as to whether they're a test match bowler, and for him to be bowling in the nets against these guys now, it is a good career progression for him, even if he's not going to be, you know, playing test matches in the immediate future. Yeah, that feels, that feels right, doesn't it? I mean, do you agree with that? Absolutely. He's not here to play next week at the Oval. I wouldn't have said so, I think if circumstance happens, then it, then, because he's here, there could be a concussion relief, anything, and he's then playing, but I think in the idea, if you're ideally saying for just a, it is two weeks in the environment, you learn so much so quickly, clearly not as much as playing a test match, but, you know, Joe Root to have a look at him, to feed back to Brendan McCollum, and he'll be bonding, if I was him, I'd be bonding with 19 yards and nets. Absolutely. Because he's given you a brand new ball, brand new ball, whatever else he's got. It must also really focus you. If you are really determined and ambitious, want to play for England, you have a two-week period like that at the age of 20. Give me the ball, find the captain, I want to call it him. You leave here, or the Oval is absolutely focused on your mind. What is ahead and what is there? If you work hard, your game improves, all that sort of thing. Interesting, actually, Josh Hol is someone that I became aware, as Kevin said, of him last year in the one-day cup, who's seen all the clips of him knocking Keaton Jennings Stump all the way back to the bowler, and that's what social media can do, is that it showed Bashir caught Ben Stokes' eye through social media, which is remarkable for forgetting the great man next to me. You didn't get me out, thank you very much. I know he's sorry, you beat your edge, you beat your head. Why? That's the rest of the game, who's blocked him. I actually missed him by myself. It really is a fascinating, interesting time to be a young player and to be catching people's eye, and it's a fantastic opportunity for him, and he's got the one-day series at the end of the summer as well that he's been selected in. John Turner, then. It's a modern quick bowler, he seems to me. He's not the old classical French tree, but he's a bit more of an open, the arm is a bit more open than that, they tend to be more coaches like that these days. Yeah, I like him. It is a simplicity about what he does. I watch whole bowl, and you think right now at a really young age, the stars have to align for him to bowl the perfect spell, and that's fine. You learn how to do that over the time, you learn your angles because of the way that he twists his body when he bowls, whereas Turner, he stands at the back of his mark, and I've only seen him bowl in white ball cricket, but I like what I see, and everything is square onto the batter, comes up in a straight line, it goes down in a straight line, similar to when you watch Atkins and bowl, you look at it, you don't think that there's not much really that can go wrong there. I did talk him up in 100 game recently, and he boiled two flat ones first, two balls and got warned out the attack. I saw him neck the week, I saw them two days after, and they were playing southern brave, and Joffra and Tamal, who are part of that, the southern brave, everyone knows how quick they bowl, he was the quicker bowl. His average speeds were faster than those two by a couple of miles now, and for one day cricket, he's certainly definitely, I think he should play a bit, because he just bangs an area with a good slide ball, which is simple. I haven't seen enough of him, he played, did play one four day game against us, but I haven't seen enough of it, he's got a little bit more to this game, which I think you need in Red Bull, just because, you know, unless you're bowling 98 miles now, you've got to do something with the ball. Yes, does that action? It's not open chess, I'd be wrong to describe open chess, but it is, that sort of modern way. More mechanical isn't it? Yeah, it is, but I mean, things like wobble seamers, presumably, it's unaffected by swing bowling, and I think that arm is more important, but these days with particularly wobble, presumably that's kind of irrelevant, it's more the mechanical business of bowling with that left arm is now, I mean, I think actually when you bowl like that, and I like bowlers to bowl naturally and clearly, but hopefully that is his natural action. I know he's had a couple of back problems, he was ruled out of the series against Ireland at the end of last summer when I think he was poised to make his one day international debut, but ended up not doing so, because he missed that through injury, but certainly when you're bowling with that more mechanical action, it just becomes a case of shifting the seam slightly in your hands and working that on, that's something that you develop with time and with bowling overs. Can I just briefly, but whilst I'm here though, because you know, we're talking about young players, aren't we, and I'm not saying, because I'm not too sure if it's true, whether the average age is coming down for them taking a look at young players, it seems to me, as though they appear younger, that's just maybe my age. But the other thing I'd love to maybe ask all three of you, or Stephen, or Alistair, is that it doesn't seem as though these players need to play as much county cricket as maybe they did before England do take notice. Now, whether that is social media, therefore the message gets out there a little bit quicker, or whether this is part of the, what is perceived to be underlying message, that we don't need 14 matches in the season, or the England selectors really need to see is 10 stroke 11 stroke 12, because obviously, some of these players are just not getting that volume of cricket in before they're being looked at by England, aren't they? And a good infrastructure of, I mean, Luke Wright's obviously out there at about, isn't he? But whether he's got other contacts as well, who he trusts. Yeah, there's a scouting network, isn't there? I think that there are guys who go around and watch, and I think actually, you back yourself for some, I mean, the statistics, this is where I don't like statistics. I think that people's performances can be skewed. I mean, Pennington there, 31 wickets at the top of the season. But when you watch in bowl, you think maybe he's not quite as quick as people are saying. I think it's worked a doing his action too, to be honest. Some work to do on his action. Yeah, and you need to bowl and you need to realise he needs to work out how to get the most out of himself. But yeah, it's an interesting time out there to, you have to, you have to put some degree of performances together in the say, to string them together to warrant, I think, playing for him. Do you think it's fair comment as well, which seems to talk about Pennington, for instance, and Pace, that until you actually see the new quick bowlers bowling, like here, when you've got all the other quick bowlers around, then there are some quick bowlers about that you start saying, okay, perhaps he looks sharp against lesser show the other day in that in that championship game. But actually, you see them out here in context and perhaps it's not quite as quick as perhaps it's built up to be. Well, I was certainly for one was there looking during that West Indies series thinking, well, this is the perfect time to give someone a debut. But they clearly didn't feel as though he was ready. He was there just bowling through to a mitt, bowling, like we saw him at Edgebast and I think it was in that last test match. So clearly, the selectors and the coaches would have seen something there that thought that he's not quite ready for test match cricket. Then is Hammy Blue, I think, no, it's Hammy Blue afterwards in the hundreds. He was definitely bowling still during that last test match, but his Hammy went during, I think he only bought one lot of five in the hundreds and his Hammy went. But we don't know what they really thought of that. If he had been for this series, wouldn't we? Yes. If he wasn't picked for this and then went for someone else, then that's what I was trying to ask what I think. We don't know what the England guys think of him because we saw him for three weeks, and I think it was quite right to get around the squad, all that stuff. We didn't know what Rob Kean and Luke Wright and Brendan would have thought of him. Yes, sure. It would fit. If it could be hit, it's quite a bit. And people are on their radar, so I had a drink with McCullum earlier in the summer. It was actually when he was giving Jimmy the tap on his shoulder, but I didn't realize that that's what he was over here doing. I hadn't put two and two together. But I had a drink with him and the whole name was on his lips before he'd even been mentioned in any of these squad lists. This was right back in May, I think, when he came over for that trip. And he said, "Josh holds someone who we really like the look of." And I was like, "The chat from Lester, the 20-year-old, who boiled well in the one-day cut, but hasn't played any four days." He was like, "Yep, big, quick, left armour, gives Bashir some rough to work with outside the off-stump." They do have their ears to the ground, and they do have those physical attributes of people that they like. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. This season, Instacart has your back to school. As in, they've got your back-to-school lunch favourites, like snack packs and fresh fruit. And they've got your back-to-school supplies, like backpacks, binders and pencils. And they've got your back when your kid casually tells you they have a huge school project to do tomorrow. Let's face it, we were all that kid. So first, call your parents to say I'm sorry, and then download the Instacart app to get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes all school year long. Get a zero-dollar delivery fee with your first three orders while supplies last, minimum $10 in order, additional term supply. "My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing at me to this day." Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com/results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be to be. Let's talk about these two Warwickshire young lads then. Dan Mosley and Jacob Bethel, Mosley with the rocket yorker. I mean, inevitably that I guess is what people talk about because he bats as well too, doesn't he? But there's two exciting young players there aren't there? We're talking a white ball here. Both left-handed, both strike the ball incredibly well. Both interesting haven't got first-class 100, which is... They've started this year, they've played a lot more this year. They've been in and out the last couple of years and the Red Bull stuff at Warwickshire, but they've played a lot more. They're probably at the challenge of a modern younger player is now where you have to play all three formats because pretty much you can't just be a Red Bull specialist or white ball specialist. There's very few of those counties are going to put some money in towards because you want that, you want nothing. But as a trainer, to be able to hit the ball for six or whatever and then then have a good enough technique for Red Bull stuff that's actually very hard. And when we started, it was all about Red Bull. So all our training as Red Bull, these guys at least, it's 50-50 white and red, probably a bit more white than Red. You can watch them training, they're six hitting, with no ciders. Straight out, you're hitting sixes at Edgebast and it's fascinating watching and they're hitting them as well. Yeah, and those two are great strikes. So they find it easy to do that and then have to learn the Red Bull, where we obviously have to learn sixes. Are those two the up-and-coming breed of young English white ball players who probably could develop into good Red Bull players, but those are the sort of youngsters who might actually be tempted to go off into franchise cricket and actually not take up the Red Bull game? I think it's incredibly hard to do that. So I think Tom Bantam is a great example of, you know, he came in and played a lot of white ball cricket, did well, picked up franchise, he stopped playing Red Bull cricket, suddenly the franchise, he didn't do that well in a couple of franchises, he just missed it and you know, you're back five balls, you're back five balls, where's the rhythm, where's the thing, actually this year he's getting back to some of his best why, because he's actually hitting lots and lots of balls in Red Bull. So I think unless you're an absolute jet at it, and I think there's not many people who can do that, these guys could be like the David Warner, where they start in white ball, he made a test debut without, he played for Australian white ball without playing any Red Bull cricket, turned into one of the great openers of all three four matted opener of our generation, god that's quite hard for me to say, about David Warner as well. So you can see, so there is a different path that they might start as white ball and then be really and then actually just involve into Red Bull, but I do think I might be old-fashioned that batters need to play Red Bull as well, certainly in that age, because it gives you volume, learn your technique, all that stuff, which you learn rather than just playing franchise franchise franchise, it will depth to a game, I think so. Yeah, but Moen Ali has said in interviews, I think, and he'd be a big mentor for them at Warwick Sheeran, Birmingham Phoenix said that you need the base technique of your Red Bull game, the ability of the bat to come up and down in a straight line to be nicely balanced, to then progress on to the next phase. So you hope that the youngsters are listening to someone like Moen Ali, who's a fantastic white ball player, and has been part of multiple World Cup winning teams, you hope that they take heed and listen to him when looking at how their percolours progress. Let's finish the Jordan Cox and showy, no, he's on, you obviously know very well. Cookie, you've seen a fair amount of him play, I guess, have you? A little bit, because he only joined this year at Essex, and he played a little bit against me a couple of times. He is just speaking to the Essex guys, they think he's a seriously good player, the element of he's got time, they say he's got a serious amount of time, very confident his ability, and he's come into a new county and scored, but I think he's got nine under runs already this year, so he'll be looking at his England side, quite now how he gets in, because he's a middle order player, but he could end up batting, he could end up batting three for England, if Ollie Pope, for example, moves around, you know, if Jamie Smith moves up, so Cox is on England's radar, and I would be pushing for him at some stage again, that's like, because I think he's now standing flat. I haven't, and a little bit more in white ball cricket than I have, red ball cricket, but the one thing that he does, he just exudes confidence, you hear him speak, he seems like someone who, in the last couple of years, he's had the confidence to move to one of the counties that challenging at the top of the first division, and he's one of those guys, I think, when we're talking about the benefits of playing at the top end of the first division and the pressure that comes with that, he's someone who, by scoring the runs he has done this year, had he done that for Ken, I'm not sure people would be talking about him as much, they're the bottom of the first division clearly, but Essex and the pressure that comes with that filling cookies boots, filling down Lawrence's boots, who's moved to Surrey, and he's come in and scored those runs, and with the confidence with which he's done it, I think stands him in good stead, and from what I've seen, he has that simple technique, and seems in a similar breath, is like a Harry Brooke, who looks to be able to deal with the different paces of play throughout the day of a test match. Anyone not on these lists, Kevin, have you, is there anybody out there? Can I just mention a couple, one is added to the long list of Wicke keeping batters, which of course George Cox is one as well, but Matthew Hearst, Matthew Hearst made an appearance in 100 I know, but he's just 20 years of age, 12 first class matches a century, 550s already, strike rate, I see of T20, 142 lists, day 128, first class is 50, so they look pretty good at numbers to me in this age, and a bit random, and a bit because he comes from Tropcha, which is the greatest county in the country, as we all know, but plays for Worcestershire, an 18-year-old, an 18-year-old, called Jack Home, who made his appearance for the first time for Worcestershire in the one-day cup this past month, there in August, took 16 Wicke, it's average of 14, including a 6-fer against Starbyshire, he is really, really quick, and of course, with all quick bubbles, therefore he can sometimes get it wrong, and he can sometimes travel a bit, but at 18 years of age, I put him down as perhaps one of these that maybe not everybody's heard of, but maybe to look out for him. Thanks everybody for joining in that channel, there's a few names to throw around, there'll be others too, of course, but I think it's pretty clear, there's a lot of talent out there. What's up, y'all? Janice Torres here. And I'm Austin Hankowitz. We're the hosts of Mind the Business, Small Business Success Stories, a podcast presented by iHeart Radios, Ruby Studios, and Intuit QuickBooks. Join us as we speak with small business owners about the tools they use to turn their ideas into success. From finding that initial spark of entrepreneurship to organizing payments and invoices, we've got you covered, so follow and listen to Mind the Business, Small Business Success Stories on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.